Latest / DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas / How Israel Lost the War | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

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How Israel Lost the War | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas · DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

0:11
Good morning. It's Wednesday, October 7th, 2026,
0:14
and this is DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl
0:19
Thomas. Today is, of course, the third anniversary
0:22
of the Hamas raid into Israel proper on October
0:27
7th, 2023. So as the Gaza war begins year four,
0:32
I say it's pretty clear that Israel has lost.
0:36
Netanyahu certainly is in deep trouble. We'll
0:39
talk about that. Former CIA officer David J.
0:43
Rush has pled guilty to a very minor, relatively
0:48
minor count of wire fraud, but he apparently
0:52
stole or was involved in the theft of close to
0:56
$200 million. We'll get into that. The EU is
1:00
proposing a series of measures to prepare the
1:03
EU to accept countries like Ukraine and Montenegro,
1:08
but they kind of want to make it more
1:11
tentative, so not all members are equal. At least
1:15
the new ones won't really be equal until they're
1:17
in for at least 15 years. We'll talk about the
1:19
future of the EU. Donald Trump wants to fence
1:22
in the big park right across the street from
1:24
the White House, where there have always been
1:27
protests against the president. We'll talk
1:31
about the implications there. Christa Pike, of
1:34
course, the victim of two botched execution attempts
1:39
in the state of Tennessee, is now still in hospital.
1:43
She's the only person known to have survived,
1:46
quote unquote, lethal injection drugs. Not that
1:50
lethal in this case. She is up and talking, not
1:54
up maybe, but she's talking, and they're expecting
1:56
a long recovery. And the question is, what does
1:59
this all mean for the death penalty, for her
2:03
personally and so on? Please like, follow, and
2:07
share the show. This is a two-hour show. We're
2:09
here on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays from
2:12
9 a.m. until 11 a.m. This is one of those days.
2:16
The second hour will be more focused on the questions
2:19
and answers than the first hour, but we're always
2:21
happy to take your questions and answers. Producer
2:24
Robby West will post them in Rumble and YouTube.
2:28
If you're watching in the live two hours, please
2:31
go ahead and put those up. We especially appreciate
2:34
and really need the subscriptions and the
2:37
Rumble Rants and the paid YouTube chats. So if
2:40
you are so inclined, we'd really appreciate it
2:43
if you could do that. Okay, that's a lot of housekeeping.
2:49
Good morning, Jamarl. How are you doing? It has
2:51
been a mess of a day. I'm doing okay. Oh, shit.
2:54
Do you want to talk about it? Yeah.
2:59
7 a.m., booking a show at 7 a.m. is always
3:02
difficult because if you're talking to Americans,
3:03
nobody wants to be up at 7 a.m. Even the host
3:06
of the show doesn't want to be up at 7 a.m.,
3:07
right? So I finally get—nobody picked up. And
3:14
around 3 in the morning, 4 in the morning, Sarah
3:16
hit me up and was like, hey, I'll do the show.
3:21
I didn't see this because it's 3 in the morning.
3:24
And I'm assuming that I am not doing the show
3:28
at 7 a.m. My first guest is at 8 o'clock. And
3:32
I see it. I'm like, oh, damn, Sarah, I bring
3:35
you on. So I have to set up the show. The show
3:38
starts at 7:30 and my mic doesn't work, but whatever
3:41
reason, Sarah starts dancing a jig. All right, yeah.
3:49
She's in. In fact, she says he's left the white girl
3:52
on air to the show. I don't know why that's relevant,
3:56
right? But whatever. For some reason, white women
3:58
have a tendency to bring up the fact that they're
4:00
white women to black men. But she's like, yeah,
4:02
he's left the white woman on the show to do it.
4:04
And she does a good job. She starts talking about
4:06
AI. She starts filling the space and does her
4:09
own thing. She has her own show, right? Finally,
4:11
the mic works. But this is like 7:35, 7. It's
4:18
been five or six minutes of your guest doing
4:22
the show by themselves because nobody can hear
4:24
you. Just a mess. But she's a pro. She knows
4:30
what she's doing. If you ever cannot get a guest
4:35
and if you need someone who will piss off
4:38
three quarters of your audience, or at least get
4:40
engagement going, I know a guy. I got you.
4:43
A guy, usually. Here's the thing, though. For me,
4:47
the guest is usually specific to topic. So
4:50
if you're covering the story, you want the guests
4:52
to cover the story, and I don't like this idea
4:54
of just fucking around with my audience's time,
4:59
for lack of a better term. It's absolutely
5:02
mortifying, the idea that there's
5:05
it. It goes back to even regular
5:08
radio, right? Dead air is absolutely
5:11
verboten, right? You just have to. You
5:14
want it to be there. You want it to start
5:16
out of the gate, like a racehorse.
5:19
Yeah, it screws with you, and it's like you're
5:22
trying to kind of piece things back together
5:24
in order to have a show that works, and it worked,
5:27
right? Caleb was fantastic. Sarah was awesome. Also,
5:30
what is funny? You observed this here,
5:32
Jamarl, right? The truth is most people aren't
5:35
here at the beginning, right? Most people
5:38
come in later. Right now I'm looking at
5:40
the numbers live. We're at 153. I'm sure we'll
5:43
be well over 300 by the end of the hour. And
5:46
by the end of the second hour, we'll probably
5:48
be pushing 400. It's like, so I saw when we first
5:51
came on, there were maybe 30 or 40 people. So
5:53
if we'd screwed up the first minute or two,
5:56
only a tenth of the audience would have
5:57
really known. Yeah, I feel you. I feel you. Usually
6:00
my show starts at either 7 or 7:15. If I've
6:03
eaten my Wheaties and I have a monologue, 7
6:06
o'clock. If not, and it's kind of because
6:09
I don't always have something to say about everything
6:11
that goes on, right? It's usually something that
6:14
bugs me is why the monologue comes into play.
6:16
But you spend most of your day doing process
6:19
stuff. So it's like you're booking the guests,
6:22
cutting the shows. Most of your day is process.
6:28
And so the time to sit down and actually read
6:30
through everything in a way where it bugs
6:32
you and that type of stuff, you have less of
6:34
it. I don't know. Yes, I want stuff to work,
6:36
and I want stuff to work at one point. So let's
6:40
do some comments, and then we'll get to it, get
6:43
to whatever you want to start with tomorrow.
6:45
October 7th should be the start because I didn't
6:47
even realize it was October 7th. My entire show
6:49
was so running. I didn't realize it until you
6:52
said it, but we should start there. Okay, good.
6:54
We'll do that. Let's—Schizo, did you guys hear
6:56
about the Marine that raped a woman in Japan?
6:58
First of all, we'll say a Marine who allegedly
7:00
raped a woman in Japan. They're being forced
7:04
to stay on base, and the Japanese people want
7:07
them out. That's—yeah, this is a recurring
7:10
issue in Okinawa, right? There's a major U.S.
7:14
base there. It's been there since World War II.
7:16
It's basically kind of like, hey, Japanese people,
7:20
don't get spicy again. We're right here. I think
7:23
my cousin was there. The Marines there are off.
7:26
Sorry? I think my cousin was there. My cousin
7:28
was in the military, and I think he was in Japan.
7:30
I know he was in Japan. I think he was in Japan.
7:33
The Okinawans don't seem to want them there.
7:37
They're, obviously, it's a part of the
7:38
economy, but a lot of the—there's
7:41
a long history of U.S. Marines misbehaving there,
7:43
attacking, raping local women. And
7:47
obviously there's a vibrant sex trade going on
7:50
there. So it's unpleasant for
7:53
the locals. And I think if there were a plebiscite,
7:56
I'm sure the Japanese would vote to have that
7:59
base closed and the Americans forced to leave.
8:02
It's not—yeah, this is just another
8:06
step in that direction, right? I don't
8:09
have a lot to say about it except it's embarrassing to—as usual, it's embarrassing
8:14
to be an American. We've colonized the world with
8:17
military bases. It's infinitely conceivable
8:20
that this would happen. Yes, people rape
8:23
in their own country, right? Of course, it's not
8:26
shocking that the people who rape in their own
8:28
country may go to other countries and also commit
8:30
rapes. We would want a higher standard because
8:33
we want to say, well, these are the U.S. military.
8:35
We would like them to be Stargate, right?
8:37
Stargate Command, where the people are decent
8:40
and they try to do the right thing, even in difficult
8:42
circumstances, et cetera. Some people are psychos
8:45
and some people have no issue taking what they
8:47
want. And it just so happens—so I'm going to
8:49
say something that is going to be a little controversial.
8:51
I think if you're a psycho, you're more likely—
8:55
let's put it this way. If psychos are
8:57
probably disproportionately highly represented
9:00
in the military, in a volunteer military, than
9:04
they are than normal people. What I mean
9:06
is I think a lot of people—it's
9:10
if you're
9:12
taking a job that's not paid terribly well in
9:15
which you may be asked to go and kill people
9:18
who haven't done anything to you. That's not
9:22
really the most normal psychology for most people,
9:25
I would say. For a lot of people, though, the
9:28
military, stuff like that, I would agree. But I
9:32
would argue politics. They're more highly representative.
9:35
It's one thing to say, I'm sitting—I, as
9:37
an individual, I'm going to go out because my
9:40
country ideally sends me somewhere to fight and
9:44
to kill, as opposed to the guy that's doing it.
9:47
The guy that's doing it is on another level,
9:50
right? This person or this soldier may kill somebody
9:54
at an individual level. That's assuming they're
9:55
firing a rifle or whatever, or going into a city.
9:58
Another one may fire artillery and kill a certain
10:00
number of people. But the people who are in charge,
10:02
who are effectively allowing this stuff to take
10:04
place and pushing it—I'll give you an example,
10:06
great example. The Ukrainian war never needed
10:10
to take place, right? And over and over again,
10:13
there were multiple steps where Putin was either
10:16
the Minsk agreements or the Istanbul agreements.
10:18
And in each of these situations, Europe killed
10:21
the deal, meaning they pushed this war forward.
10:26
The "Nyet means nyet" memorandum by William Burns
10:29
makes it very clear that the U.S. and Europe
10:31
fully understood the gravity of what was taking
10:32
place, meaning we understand that there is most
10:35
likely going to be a civil war as a result of
10:37
us offering NATO membership to Ukraine. And they
10:40
did it anyway. At no point did they want to stop
10:42
this war, meaning they full well understood the
10:45
number of people that were going to get killed,
10:46
the number of people that were going to die.
10:48
Didn't matter. Now, you could say that those
10:51
people aren't psychopaths. I think they are.
10:54
I think that's insane. I wouldn't disagree with
10:58
that at all. I totally think they're psychopaths.
11:01
They're just a different kind of psychopath.
11:03
And CEOs. Yeah, no, totally. I think they're
11:06
highly representative of certain career things.
11:08
Maybe a soldier, fair enough. The guy who
11:11
got capped by Luigi. Total psycho. Yeah. But
11:15
that's kind of. Well, but that guy's. But right
11:17
now we're talking about the Okinawa situation.
11:19
I'm just saying the kind of person who would
11:21
enlist in the military voluntarily. And again,
11:26
I reiterate the fact that this is not a terribly
11:28
well-paid job, which kind of
11:30
belies the whole. Well, for many,
11:33
Robby's trying to make that point,
11:35
oh, for a lot of people, there's
11:37
no other way. There's always another way. There's
11:41
always a job in a fast food restaurant.
11:43
How do you think my cousin joined the military?
11:46
I don't know your cousin. Oh, that's fair. Fair
11:49
enough. I'll tell you the flat fact. He's not
11:52
a psychopath. I'll tell you that. I would also
11:54
tell you that part of the reason that he joined
11:56
is because many people see the military as a
11:57
job. By the way, I'm not saying all people who
11:59
join the military are psychopaths. I'm saying
12:01
that... I would imagine if you took the
12:03
population, if you said, what percentage of the
12:06
military are psychopaths? I'm going to say probably
12:08
that's a higher number. In fact, the military
12:10
has found that to be true. It's a higher number
12:14
than the population in general. That's all I'm
12:16
saying. I'm sure the vast majority of members
12:20
of the military are not psychopaths. I'm just
12:22
going to say that they're disproportionately
12:23
represented. That's all. I don't know the numbers
12:27
for it, so I don't know the answer for it. And
12:28
you might be right. Especially when you get into
12:30
SEAL Team 6 and those type of things. Well, they're
12:32
more interested in—the military is actually
12:34
actively interested in sociopaths, people who
12:37
don't feel. It's not that they're—sociopaths
12:39
aren't really bad people, but they're people
12:41
who don't feel guilty. For example, if
12:44
they have to kill someone, it doesn't haunt them.
12:48
Well, sociopaths is a little bit different. Sociopaths
12:51
has to do with social incentives that make a
12:55
person or get a person into the mindset that
12:58
this is okay. Let's say you grew up in a
13:00
ghetto. It's a horrible situation, right? Sorry
13:03
to interrupt, but it's also important to say,
13:04
I kind of sort of emphasize
13:08
the kind of person who would join, but then there's
13:10
also what they do to you after you get in,
13:13
after you join, right? That's all. That's not a
13:16
small part of the equation. And then they're also
13:19
putting you in a single-sex environment,
13:21
in many cases, right? So, also,
13:25
the idea that soldiers might be likelier
13:28
to be rapier. That's not surprising either,
13:32
right? It's kind of like Catholic priests
13:35
or any single-sex environment
13:38
or fraternities at Cornell University or
13:42
any single-sex environment is going to
13:43
tend to be a little rapey. But it's not. Okay, well, Cornell University—well, the school
13:48
may be single-sex. They're not trapped. It's not
13:51
a prison. The man can go out. If you're a fraternity
13:55
brother—one of the reasons I would not—okay,
13:58
I had—I totally can speak to this. So at Columbia
14:02
we had the ability to, starting the year that
14:05
I was there, to live in the Barnard dorms if we
14:07
won the housing lottery, right? So you could choose.
14:10
So I was very, very happy that I was one of
14:14
the few guys who got to live at the Barnard dorms.
14:16
All of my guy friends were like, why would
14:20
you want to live over there? You have to live
14:21
and eat in the cafeteria with all those girls.
14:24
I'm like, because you have to. My answer was
14:27
because I want to live and eat with all those
14:30
girls, right? And so, and I was like, why
14:33
do you want to be over here with all these guys,
14:36
right? I was like, why? And
14:41
I guess it's, well, we just
14:43
like it better. But I'm like, I think I'm a little more hetero than you are. Maybe
14:47
that's just what I think. Dorms—we had men
14:50
and women in our dorms. It was great. Well,
14:54
that's what it's like now, but Columbia was a—
14:56
Columbia was—Columbia University, Columbia
15:00
College was a single-sex, all-male school
15:03
until 1983. And then, you're looking at
15:06
the presidents for students for co-education
15:09
right here. And so women were admitted
15:12
in 1983. And so that year we had crossover between
15:20
the Barnard and the Columbia dorms. Now it's
15:22
completely—the Columbia dorms are completely
15:24
co-ed, of course. Well, just to make the point,
15:27
though, basically the argument is, do single-sex
15:30
environments make people more rapey? I think
15:32
that's the argument that's being made. That's
15:34
my argument. I don't have an answer to that.
15:36
I don't have an answer to that. It's because
15:38
militaries, I think, are a bit different.
15:39
I think militaries—there's a culture in militaries
15:42
of rape in general, meaning you take—they
15:48
even got, what, taking booty, right? Hell, you're taking people's entire countries,
15:53
right? So what's the big deal about taking one
15:56
person's body? I know, but often, right, it's
15:59
the one person's body matters less than the fact
16:01
that they've just taken over the entirety of
16:02
the country. But oftentimes the bodies of the
16:04
people that are there become part of the quote
16:08
unquote booty. It's not great. It's not a rah-rah,
16:11
but it's not like it's an ancient mentality.
16:17
To the victor go the spoils, right? Rape and
16:19
pillage. Protecting our young women and our young
16:23
wives. Yeah, wives and women. But on Japan, these
16:29
guys are not at war, right? Meaning the rapey
16:32
thing comes in, I think, because of the pumped-
16:34
up war stuff. These guys aren't at war. They're
16:37
just at a military base. But everyone's well
16:40
aware why they're at that base, right? Why is
16:43
that base there? If you can spit game, you can
16:45
get Japanese women, as my cousin was able to
16:48
do. Just pointing out, you don't have to be a
16:51
rapist, right? Oh, for sure. For sure. Obviously. And look, again, obviously, I'm sure.
16:57
First of all, the U.S. military couldn't function
16:59
if most of its soldiers were rapists, right?
17:02
Obviously, most of them are not. I think
17:06
the key part of the story is they shouldn't be
17:07
in Japan. They shouldn't be in Okinawa. That's
17:10
the key point, right? Well, because they're not
17:12
needed or wanted. So, yes, that's correct. Bad
17:16
Cookies wants to know, Jamarl, you have the answer
17:18
to this question. Do you guys know what is the
17:19
name of Jamarl Thomas's other show? The Jamarl Thomas
17:22
Show. Easy to remember. That's the name. It's
17:26
on my channel, Jamarl Thomas. It's just the Jamarl
17:28
Thomas Show. I have shows all throughout the
17:30
day. Melissa Morgan says, no, Robby, not you.
17:34
Can't have you annoying me on two channels. What?
17:39
In terms of Robby appearing on your show when
17:43
you need help. She's like, no. If I need a right-
17:48
winger, I'll bring him on. Wait, Robby's a right-
17:52
winger? I didn't know that. Okay, Duskburn. I
17:58
thought he was a North Korean communist. Right.
18:01
Most folks I know joined the service because
18:04
they wanted the chance to go to college. That
18:06
too. Daniel says, I was poor and wanted to go
18:10
to college. I got a Pell Grant and a job, no
18:12
need to join the military. Pell Grant doesn't
18:16
pay much, but not that it was the military. Douglas,
18:19
frat boys seem very gay-coded. That's why so
18:21
many end up in the Republican Party. I agree
18:24
with that. That's what I'm trying to say. So
18:28
there were very few frats at Columbia. There
18:31
were only like three when I went there. Total
18:33
membership was under 100 people, right? In a school with, oh, 24,000 people in
18:39
the university, right? So it's nothing. It's
18:43
probably bigger now than it used to be because
18:46
life has just gotten worse. But anyway. I had
18:50
a friend who he was pledged to one of the
18:54
frats there, and he told me what the initiation
18:56
ritual was, which was you had to masturbate onto
19:00
a saltine and then eat it, and then sometimes
19:03
the variant was you had to eat someone else's
19:06
saltine. Oh, that's not gay-coded at all. There's
19:10
nothing gay about that. Nothing gay about that.
19:13
Yeah, I never wanted to be in the frat
19:17
because I thought people could be—that it
19:21
was, I don't know, it was a crowd issue.
19:25
It was a virtue signal issue. I thought,
19:28
okay, these are very weak people that need to
19:31
come together in this way. Granted, that's
19:33
not fair, but that was the way I thought about
19:34
it. The gay thing is—see, that's so funny how—
19:37
oh, I just think of them as, it's
19:39
gay-coded, right? Look, it's like football
19:42
is gay-coded, with the tight pants and they
19:44
grab each other's asses and they're all in the
19:47
locker room together. It's like a gay
19:49
fantasy porn movie, right?
19:52
A lot of American culture is kind of gay.
19:55
Hegseth is gay. Rubio is gay. Right-
19:59
wing culture is very gay. They celebrate
20:04
the masculine, if that's what you mean. Well,
20:08
yeah, in a certain kind of way. Even semen is
20:09
not the most masculine thing in the world. That's
20:11
very gross. The fact that they would, at
20:14
that moment, they should have been like,
20:16
I don't need this. I just walk, right?
20:19
The idea that you sit there and,
20:21
I'm going to eat another man's semen on a cracker
20:23
in order to be part of a fraternity. Really?
20:28
It matters that much to you? That's some insane
20:31
shit. And imagine if they got the video of that.
20:33
I was in marching band in high school and we
20:36
had hazing still. It was the late '70s. And I
20:40
had to, and my hazing was, I was ordered to—
20:43
we were all different, had different shits.
20:45
Some people had to use a toothbrush to clean
20:47
an entire statue. I was told to wear high heels
20:52
for a week in school. Now, I actually, to tell
20:57
you the truth, this was a great experience because
20:59
it really taught me one thing, which is that
21:01
high heels should be banned. And that men who
21:05
require their women to wear high heels are assholes
21:08
because high heels are insanely painful and hard
21:11
to walk in. They should be banned by
21:16
law, along with football. I have tattoos. I have
21:19
a tattoo on the back of my neck. I have one on
21:20
my arm. I have one all over. I think tattoos
21:23
are sexy. Even on women, I think tattoos are
21:25
sexy. I think piercings. What does that have
21:28
to do with high heels? Because it's pain. You're
21:33
paying pain for the luxury of the look. You sound
21:36
like my mom. My mom used to wear all sorts of
21:38
clothes and shoes because she's French. Then
21:40
she was like—I was like, that looks really scratchy
21:43
and uncomfortable. She'd be like, it is. What
21:45
matters is looking good. Exactly. It's that part.
21:48
French. It's like, yeah, it hurts. But the pain
21:53
is payment for the look. That's the way I look
21:55
at it. By the way, did you see the video that's
21:57
going around that's viral? It's of the French
22:00
riots. And it's at a cafe. I don't know which
22:03
city it's in, but there's a middle-aged couple
22:06
and they're just eating their wine. They're drinking
22:09
their red wine and they're eating their food
22:11
and things are burning and blowing up. And every
22:16
now and then they're like, oh yeah, something
22:19
blows up and they're just drinking. And someone
22:22
captioned it, this is the most French thing ever.
22:25
It's so cool. That's awesome. That's so awesome.
22:28
Because that's one of the best parts of France,
22:30
that you guys sit in the cafe hours, just no matter
22:33
what. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we have—so we're half
22:38
an hour in, almost not even, but we should. Okay,
22:40
Gaza. So it's October 7th, three years ago. We
22:45
all know what happened. Where is Israel now?
22:49
Pardon? It's been three years. I thought it was
22:52
three years. Three years. So
22:58
the point is, what? Right now the big story in Israel,
23:00
they have an election coming up in
23:02
a couple of weeks. Nobody knows how it's going to
23:05
go. It's kind of even, but basically the U.S. is—
23:08
the UAE, Egypt. My cat Clovis. Everybody warned
23:13
Netanyahu that this was going to happen. So obviously
23:17
he knew it was going to happen and decided not
23:19
to do anything about it. So one of
23:22
the stories that we don't cover here much is
23:24
the Israeli economy is in real trouble. They've
23:28
lost 100,000 of the most skilled workers have
23:30
fled the country. The national debt has increased
23:34
a lot. The Israeli businesses have been disrupted
23:39
by so many people being called, being drafted
23:42
into the reserves. Obviously, to me, the big
23:45
influence—Hamas is still gangbusters.
23:49
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No.
23:54
Israel is deeply diplomatically isolated.
23:58
There's warrants for the prime minister's arrest
24:00
from the ICC. Palestine's being recognized by
24:04
a lot of countries that never would have before.
24:08
Before I did this show, I was talking
24:11
to Spanish government officials who are looking
24:15
to help fund a play that's going to be put
24:20
on in Palestine. I might do the graphic novel
24:23
adaptation for it. Just another example of just
24:26
everybody's pro-Palestine now. Nobody
24:29
likes Israel. U.S. support for Israel is plummeting
24:33
even among Republicans. The point is I
24:36
think it's fair to say that Israel has lost and
24:40
it's never coming back, and it's
24:43
this was an amazing victory on the part of
24:46
Hamas. I think this must have greatly
24:49
exceeded their expectations. They were hoping
24:52
to just change the outcome of negotiations. But
24:55
this has gone beyond that. Israel is
24:57
now facing its biggest existential crisis since
25:01
1948. Yeah. Talk about heels hurting,
25:07
right? This was paid in blood from the standpoint
25:13
of Hamas. And I think I agree with your
25:20
assessment. I think I do. I think it's the cost
25:23
that's difficult to accept. But, yeah, I think
25:29
I agree with your assessment. That the reality
25:31
of it is Israel—the fact that Israel
25:34
is trying to ingratiate itself further into the
25:36
U.S. military gets to your point, right? They
25:39
don't believe that what's coming in the next
25:42
10, 15, 20 years is going to be favorable to
25:45
them. Because they are a pariah state that just
25:47
committed a genocide that the entire world watched
25:50
live-streamed. That's heavy. Right. That's not.
25:54
It's very heavy. You could say when the Germans
25:58
committed their genocide that the public knew,
26:00
but kind of not. It was kind of this. Well,
26:03
we have an idea of something taking place, but
26:05
we haven't seen it. It's not sitting in Germany.
26:08
It's not being live-streamed where each and every
26:10
person around the world can actually watch them
26:12
take glee out of murdering kids. We didn't get
26:15
that opportunity when the Second World War was
26:17
taking place. We got it now. And for all of this
26:21
years of them trying to say, don't believe your
26:24
lying eyes. It's not a genocide. By the way,
26:26
they still push that narrative. It's not a genocide.
26:28
Every single day I see it on social media. There
26:32
is no genocide. That's their talking point on
26:34
the Hasbara channels. And it's like, nobody believes
26:38
you. Nobody believes you. Nobody believes you.
26:42
Keep yelling, idiots. It doesn't help. You're
26:45
just making yourselves look foolish. Which is
26:49
great, because I feel like this is an argument
26:51
that we won. A lot of people think
26:53
political divisions just last forever, but they
26:56
don't last forever. There are things
26:58
that are won and there are things that are lost,
26:59
especially from the standpoint of narratives.
27:01
Rape is looked at as bad, right? That's
27:06
a bad thing. Okay, that's something that somebody
27:08
won. That's an argument that was won, because
27:09
at some point it may not have been necessarily bad.
27:12
It is now. Civil rights. Being racist is not
27:16
necessarily—being racist is frail to put. Okay,
27:19
why? Because the argument was won. And I think
27:21
this is one of those things where this incessant
27:23
push of you're committing a genocide, you're
27:25
committing a genocide, you're murdering women
27:27
and children. Here's the videos. Here's the evidence.
27:29
It's so voluminous. You can't turn away. You
27:32
just can't turn away. They lost the argument.
27:35
I think it's really—actually
27:38
very profound what you just said, right?
27:39
Political change does happen, right? But it's
27:42
in fits and starts, kind of like the way evolution
27:44
is. It's like
27:47
a prisoner chipping away at his prison cell wall,
27:51
and he spends years every day, chips a little
27:54
bit, chips away a little more, and then suddenly
27:58
one day, 17 years into it, the wall falls
28:03
into it, falls into the shaft, and he's like, holy,
28:06
I'm standing in the—I'm standing between
28:09
the walls. I can see out, right? And
28:14
that's what political change is like.
28:16
And it could be over something as profound
28:18
as civil rights or not as important
28:22
as, say, whether or not you should be able
28:24
to smoke in an office.
28:27
Civil rights, that's a struggle
28:31
that went on for well over 100 years. And
28:34
people grew up, lived full, long lives
28:39
and died thinking that this was never going to
28:42
change. But it did. And that's what
28:46
this is like. It's, I thought
28:48
we would never see a world in which
28:51
the U.S. would turn away from Israel. I'm sure
28:53
that we're going to see a world in which the
28:55
U.S. stops funding. I'm 63. I know I'm going
28:59
to live to see the day that there's not a single
29:01
dollar going from the United States to Israel.
29:04
And I don't think I'm going to have to wait that
29:06
long to see it. I don't know. And I
29:09
just think that's a profound change. Hamas delivered
29:14
the final blow. Here's the part that you're missing.
29:19
And this is—what you're saying is that
29:22
isn't part correct. If you go poll the normal
29:25
person on the street, they're going to tell you
29:28
Israel is a genocidal state. We should have nothing
29:31
to do with it. The problem is that you keep
29:34
thinking that the man on the street actually
29:35
has a say in the so-called democracies in which
29:38
we live. They control the ruling class. That's
29:43
the issue. It doesn't matter what I think, Ted
29:45
Rall thinks, JT thinks, or 90% of the people in
29:48
the chat think. What matters—well, the only
29:52
reason—look, I agree with your point that the
29:54
political class hasn't changed, but I think the
29:57
issue is, in 10 years, is a political class still
30:00
going to be the same political class? That's the
30:02
question. People who are in their 20s now, in
30:06
their 30s, their 40s, now going into politics, then
30:09
what is going to be the position of those people
30:11
when they go into it? Are they going to be rah-
30:13
rah Israel? Are they going to be very skeptical
30:16
of the state? That's the question. Because I
30:19
don't believe this is a two-year change. I think
30:22
this takes place over 10, 15 years. Oh,
30:24
yeah. It'll be decades. But if there
30:27
is change that happens, it will be after an economic
30:29
collapse, when the banking class is brought down,
30:32
the entire economic system fractures. And then
30:36
normal people, for lack of a better word, have
30:38
a chance to take back some of their power. If
30:41
we just keep limping along right now, just slowly
30:44
boiling the pot, then the people are going to
30:47
continue sleeping. They're going to continue
30:48
watching football, drinking their beer, watching
30:51
their Netflix, hopping over to West Glacier Gaming,
30:53
watching a gaming stream. What dear waste of
30:58
time could there be? No, the people go on. Until
31:02
there's real pain, where the people on the street—
31:06
basically the ruling class has power until they
31:09
don't. When the normal people figure out, hey,
31:12
we can actually inflict change, that's when the
31:16
ruling class breaks. The problem is how long
31:18
is it going to take to get there? 10 years? 50?
31:21
100? Never? That's the question. I'll pick 50.
31:26
Give a good five at the most. Okay, but the thing
31:29
is that—so look, you're—
31:33
Robby's right and Robby's wrong, right? So on the
31:36
one hand, it's certainly true that the ruling
31:39
classes don't give a shit about us and would
31:42
love to just ignore the people as much as they
31:45
can. And for the most part, to the extent that
31:47
they can, they do. But when there are certain
31:50
crises that, for example, we're seeing
31:52
in France right now, when things get spicy, they
31:58
can't ignore it anymore. And I'm always—I was
32:01
very taken by when I learned that—by the fact
32:04
that even Nazi Germany,
32:08
which was a totalitarian state that ruled by
32:11
incredible fear, to the point where even
32:15
if you were in the resistance, but your family
32:17
wasn't, they would kill your family. Right.
32:21
The German government nevertheless had a need
32:25
to know what was going on, what people were thinking,
32:29
to the point where they had squads of spies hang
32:31
out in German bars and cafes, eavesdropping people's
32:36
conversations about politics, like, hey, so what
32:39
do you think about the Führer? And so why would
32:44
a totalitarian state like Nazi Germany care about
32:47
that? Well, obviously, because even if you're
32:49
the leader of North Korea or whatever, the point
32:53
is you have to care what the people think, because
32:55
if you don't, eventually they might come for
32:57
you, like Ceaușescu, right? So I'm just saying
33:02
they have to care sometimes is all I'm saying.
33:07
They don't care until they do care, but they
33:10
have to care sometimes. We're the gopher tortoise
33:15
room. Republicans are openly Jewish and secretly
33:19
gay. Democrats are openly gay and secretly Jewish.
33:22
I don't know about the Jewish part, but the gay
33:25
part is pretty funny. Schrödinger's cat, Ted,
33:29
is like my crazy uncle that believes in communism.
33:33
Okay. That's all the comment was. Yeah, that's
33:38
all the comment was. Douglas, the Israeli economy
33:41
isn't in trouble. The U.S. economy is, and that's
33:44
why they're in the shit. Partly. There's some
33:47
truth to that. But, there is
33:50
no Israeli economy without the United States
33:52
economy. Did you see Putin's comments? Daniel
33:57
wants to know about Israel. He repeated the
33:59
same two-state solution line that Western politicians
34:01
repeat and did not want to talk about imposing
34:03
sanctions or break ties with Israel. I did not
34:07
see that. I've seen that. So Putin has a very
34:14
weird association with Israel. I've had this
34:16
conversation on my show, and there have been
34:18
some people who I think may go a little bit far.
34:24
And he'll praise a little Putin in regards to
34:26
Israel. But there is something there that is
34:28
not necessarily part of the Russian part.
34:31
Meaning, there's a distinction between Putin
34:33
versus Russia in regards to Israel. It seems
34:36
that way. And he seems to be far less,
34:41
for example, they will put out statements. They're
34:43
not going to do anything. And even when it was
34:46
the missiles and everything else, Russia
34:47
will protect Syria up to a point. But it was
34:50
still hit by Israel, right? Providing that Israel
34:54
didn't do so much damage. But even that, it's
34:57
like, well, wait a minute, providing they do
34:58
so much damage. It's a very weird relationship
35:01
between Israel and Putin. What do you attribute
35:05
that? Honestly, I don't know. I don't quite get
35:09
it. Because in the conversation I had, I think
35:11
I was making the point of saying this doesn't
35:12
make sense. Because from my point of view, it's
35:15
Israel is obviously a dog of the U.S. Why
35:18
is Putin cozying up to a dog of the U.S. when
35:21
they were being attacked by the same U.S.? Because
35:23
the Soviet Union actually had a mixed relationship
35:27
with Israel too, right? This is actually
35:31
an easy question. Half of the Israeli population
35:33
is Russian. Well, that's it. Yeah, that's what I
35:36
mean. Let's be honest. Why did Putin invade Ukraine?
35:40
There's two reasons. One, because
35:43
they were flirting with the idea of joining NATO. It's
35:44
never going to happen. Number two, because the
35:46
Yukis were attacking ethnic Russians. So there
35:51
you go. The Russian state is one thing. The Russian
35:54
nation is another. The nation is the people as
35:56
a whole. Putin regards himself as the protector
35:59
of the Russian nation, not the state, the nation.
36:02
And so if half of your population is—one thing,
36:05
I would just strip the Russian citizenship and
36:07
be done with them. You cannot serve two masters.
36:10
That's why I'm opposed to dual citizenship. It's
36:13
30%. It's not half. I don't think it's half of
36:15
30%, but whatever. How are you going
36:19
to count it? Are you going to count dual citizens
36:21
on other stuff? Who the hell knows? I'll
36:22
round up. The point is that Russia plays nice
36:27
with them because a significant population, just
36:29
say that, are Russians. That's why. And Putin
36:34
has no balls. And that too. Putin has some balls.
36:41
But he's at ease. He's more careful than he is
36:44
brave. He's very cautious. Yeah, two-state solution
36:47
is ridiculous. Two-state solution is dead.
36:51
Nobody wants it. So none of the parties
36:54
involved want it. And besides which, Israel has
36:56
lost its right. Any right that it ever had to
36:59
exist, which was none, it lost completely. And
37:03
it's completely discredited. It
37:05
can't be trusted. It was created by the world.
37:08
It should be uncreated by the world.
37:11
We need a democratic Republic of Palestine. I
37:15
don't think that the people who live there, including
37:18
Israeli Jews, should be expelled. But I think
37:21
they should be one person, one vote,
37:23
you guys work it out. That's easier
37:29
said than done. You've just massacred a large
37:32
part of the population. And now, hey, let's be
37:35
kumbaya. We do have the South Africa
37:40
model, right? That's highly imperfect, but we
37:44
do know it is possible for a post-apartheid
37:47
state to go along without another genocide, right?
37:53
This is more like a German model. For
37:55
one, how do you re-educate those lunatics in
38:00
Israel? There's that. Well, you would definitely
38:03
have to have some kind of truth and reconciliation
38:05
style process. You'd have to have, for the worst
38:09
offenders, the people who were at the top. This
38:11
would be like Nuremberg, right? The people, obviously
38:14
cabinet members, Israeli generals, Netanyahu,
38:18
people like that. They all have to be put on
38:20
trial. You have to have war crimes trials for
38:23
those people. But for ordinary IDF idiot who
38:26
went to Gaza as a private, now that person
38:29
just needs some re-education. Yeah, but the problem
38:33
is this is not like the Germans who claim they
38:36
didn't know, meaning it's not like, oh, Hans,
38:41
I never knew. We knew. It smelled. We knew it smelled
38:45
funky by the so-called sausage factory, getting
38:48
killed, et cetera. How on earth does the Israeli population
38:53
say that? Well, South Africa, certainly the white
38:57
South Africa, the Afrikaners, certainly knew how
39:00
Blacks were treated. No question. They
39:02
saw it every day. I know, but there's a difference
39:04
between, okay, we're creating an apartheid state
39:06
versus we're committing a genocide. We are slaughtering
39:09
large numbers of women. There's both of those
39:12
issues. Yeah. By the way, just very quietly the
39:17
other day, NPR stated that the population of
39:21
Gaza is currently 1.7 million. It was pre-war
39:25
2.3 million. The borders are closed. You do the
39:29
math. 500, right? Yeah, 600,000. So 2.2, and it
39:36
says 1.7. Well, some—it was 2.3. Oh, okay. Yeah.
39:41
Obviously it's an estimate. Israel
39:44
knows exactly to the man, right? But anyway,
39:47
so look, before we move on here, I do.
39:50
So we're kind of in agreement that Israel
39:53
really lost. Do you think they have any
39:57
prospects of turning this around? I don't see
39:59
it. I don't see how. But if you were—could
40:04
be. We don't have a crystal ball here, but
40:06
it's kind of the job. That's kind of
40:07
what this show is trying to do, is predict the
40:09
future. I don't see any
40:13
world in which the Israelis are able to turn
40:16
this around for them in terms of international
40:18
public opinion, which they desperately need. No,
40:23
not for public opinion. They've lost a generation,
40:25
if not more. If
40:30
you think of a show that you used
40:33
to watch as a child, whatever that show is, maybe
40:36
it was a movie, maybe it was a TV show, and or
40:41
let's say think of a girl that you used to know
40:42
when she was in high school, and you see her 40
40:46
years later. She's kind of still the girl
40:49
in high school to you. It's the wildest thing.
40:53
It's like they're fixed in time that you knew
40:56
them. They might have had a divorce. They might
40:58
have had a husband die. Hell, they might have
41:00
went to prison. They might have had a drug addiction
41:03
and gotten over it. They might have had a drug
41:04
addiction. They might have had a string of men
41:06
that treated them poorly. It could be anything,
41:09
right? You're still the girl that you knew in
41:11
high school. Israel is going to be that horrible
41:15
shrew that murdered somebody in the high school
41:18
lawn that everybody watched. And then
41:22
everybody goes away with remembering that was
41:24
the killer. That's who Israel is going to be.
41:26
Just on a radical exponential scale. Yeah, especially
41:30
because they can't. They're never going to go
41:34
the German route and apologize profusely over
41:37
and over and over again, right? And put it in
41:40
their textbooks and promise to never do it again
41:42
and build memorials and apologize and make restitution.
41:46
They're not going to do any of those things.
41:48
Because they agree. This is not like, oh
41:50
my God, I can't believe this is what we've done.
41:53
It's, even let's say Netanyahu is the vessel
41:56
for this because they're going to blame him as
41:57
the vessel. Oh my God, I can't believe this is
41:59
what Netanyahu did. All of them agree. Yeah,
42:01
that's the Bret Stephens in the New York Times
42:03
take all the time. Oh, you just have to
42:06
get rid of Netanyahu and then everything's fine.
42:08
Dude, you are so high. No, everybody agreed.
42:13
Right? This is not one guy did this. This
42:17
is one guy did this. He was pushing out an open
42:19
door, right? Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. There
42:24
is no way out of that box. It's not a situation where
42:27
they could say we didn't know, because you knew.
42:29
Everybody knew. It's not a situation where you
42:31
could say it was just him. Well, that's not the
42:32
case, because all of you agreed. How do you fix
42:36
that entity? I have no idea. The German model doesn't
42:39
even work for that, because again, everybody knew
42:41
and everybody agreed all the way, and the government
42:43
changed, and the style of government changed.
42:46
The country was invaded by two superpowers.
42:49
It was divvied up. It was divided into completely
42:52
new forms of government. Everyone in the old
42:56
government was purged and gone, denazified.
43:00
There were war crimes trials. That's not
43:03
good. That would need to happen in Israel too.
43:06
Here's the difference. The vast majority of
43:10
the population knows what's going on and they
43:13
support it. The society itself is pathogenic and
43:17
it needs to be destroyed. It needs to be burned
43:19
to the ground. Yeah, the society is
43:24
toxic and corrupt. It is broken and up beyond
43:28
belief. Yeah, I don't know. It's an
43:31
apartheid. Look, any kind of ethno—
43:35
any state based on ethnic superiority has
43:40
no place in the modern era. And it's not viable.
43:45
Agreed. And one last point to it. See, the problem
43:52
is the power structure is set up in a way that
43:54
makes it difficult to do that. Meaning it makes
43:57
it difficult to say we're going to have truth
43:59
and reconciliation. Okay, but how do you do that
44:01
when everybody agrees with what was taking place?
44:03
Keep in mind, this is... In a world where
44:05
the overwhelming majority of the planet say rape
44:07
is wrong and rape is punished. Hell, you could
44:09
be punished by death in certain places. You get
44:10
stoned in certain locations, right? Sure. They
44:13
watched a man raped on video. And 60% of the
44:16
population said that's fair game. Yeah, that's
44:19
cool. And I always use that because that is so
44:23
mind-blowing. It's one thing. Because
44:27
it's so depraved. It's so depraved. And for everybody
44:31
to watch and be like, gang rape should be okay
44:33
against Palestinians. It's like, all right. This
44:35
society shouldn't exist. Yeah, it's just breathtaking.
44:40
Calling it broken isn't really fair because
44:43
that implies that it was ever not broken at some
44:46
point, and that's just not true. It was
44:50
a bad seed from the very beginning. All right,
44:53
so what do I talk about? You think it was a bad
44:55
seed because of the genocide? And I think
44:59
it was a bad seed from the idea that you're
45:01
coming. There's so many
45:03
original sins in this creation of the state
45:05
of Israel, right? But first and
45:08
foremost, the idea that you're going to create
45:10
a state that's based on a religion where
45:13
you're going to say this religion, even though
45:15
it's a minority, is going to inherently always
45:17
be in charge. We're going to put its symbol on
45:20
the flag and all other religions need not apply,
45:23
no matter how much of a population they represent.
45:26
That's inherently that's that.
45:30
And then not to mention coming in and
45:32
stealing other people's land and territory.
45:36
It's hilarious how the Israelis are like,
45:37
oh, the Arab countries started it. Look, if
45:40
you come into my house and then you say, oh, I'll
45:44
share your house with you, and I know I'm going
45:47
to kill you if I can, and now I think
45:52
the law is going to say that you started it, not
45:54
me. They're going to say that's a home invasion.
45:57
Raul was standing his ground and defending himself
45:59
in his own house. And even in a liberal state
46:02
like New York, I'm allowed to shoot you. So it's
46:06
ridiculous. I agree. All
46:11
right. I don't know what to do about it. And
46:13
maybe it collapses on its own merits. But I agree
46:16
with you that they've lost this idea of legitimacy
46:19
and credibility from the standpoint of people
46:21
looking at them. They've become a pariah state.
46:22
The people who consider themselves Israelis have
46:24
become pariahs in and of itself just because
46:26
so many of them support this genocide. Yeah,
46:31
I don't—the question becomes, what does that turn
46:33
into materially from the standpoint of the destruction
46:36
of the state? You ask the question whether or
46:38
not they could turn this around from optics. No.
46:41
Can they maintain the integrity of the state
46:43
if Iran falls, for example? Meaning there
46:46
has to be a lot of stuff that takes place for
46:48
them. A lot of stuff has to happen,
46:51
right? No. Oh, so my cat's meowing. I'll have to
46:56
let him out. But all right, so we just—it's
46:59
just a reminder, and for everybody who's watching,
47:01
thank you so much for being here on DeProgram
47:03
with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas. We're going till
47:05
11 o'clock Eastern. We have an hour and 15 minutes
47:07
left in the show. So what shall we move to
47:11
for next? That crazy corrupt CIA agent, the
47:15
EU, Lafayette Park, or Christa Pike? Let's go to
47:19
Christa Pike, because I think this
47:21
is always contentious. I like contentious. All
47:25
right. Yeah, as spicy as you would say. What
47:29
should happen to her? Should she be let go? Well,
47:35
I think she should probably be released, which
47:38
is probably controversial. But I think the state
47:41
has fucked up. So first of all, I wanted to talk
47:43
about something that, when you, me,
47:44
and Robby talked about this before. We talk
47:49
about redemption. And I got an email from one
47:51
of our regular listeners who is a former law
47:54
enforcement officer who said that he was very
47:57
right-wing and very—I don't know, actually,
47:59
I don't want to put words in his mouth. He didn't
48:00
say he was right-wing, but he sounded like a
48:02
very traditional law enforcement officer. He's
48:04
probably listening or watching right now. And
48:06
he said that basically he came to believe after
48:10
being exposed to people who were on death row
48:13
that the vast majority of them—he had the same
48:17
take I did when I visited San Quentin and visited
48:19
all the lifers. And basically it was like this.
48:23
Almost all of them had the same story to tell,
48:26
which was I was 18, 19, 20, or 21 years old, specifically
48:31
those ages. I was drunk and/or high and/or stupid.
48:38
And I did this incredibly violent, insane thing
48:42
that hurt or killed—well, that killed. They killed
48:45
someone. You meet these people in their 40s
48:49
or 50s or 60s or 70s, and you can plainly see
48:54
that this is not them trying to
48:58
jawbone their way out of responsibility. It
49:01
is just a stone-cold solid fact that you could
49:04
bet your entire—everything you own and everything
49:08
you ever could own on they would never do anything
49:11
like that now. There's just not the same person.
49:14
Nobody's the same person at 48 as they were at
49:17
18. And it's, you're just—your hormones
49:21
are different. You're wired differently. You're
49:24
just not the same animal in the same way that
49:27
a kitten is not the same thing as an 11-
49:30
year-old cat. There's just not the same animal.
49:33
It's, would you—and I think that the
49:38
Christa Pike that did this, that murdered her
49:42
friend slash acquaintance gratuitously for no—
49:46
for the stupidest of all reasons, in the cruelest
49:49
of all ways, is not alive anymore. She died years
49:52
ago. You're punishing someone else, right? And
49:58
I guess it's almost if you had
50:01
killed her back then, it would make more sense.
50:04
But you didn't. You let—because
50:08
of the nature of our system, we let this drag
50:10
on for decades, and now what are you doing?
50:16
What is the point of this? The only point
50:19
of it, as far as I can see, is to give some satisfaction
50:22
to some families of the victims that some
50:26
vengeance has been wrought, because I'd say
50:29
some, because some families don't want it.
50:31
And so, and I'm like, I don't think that's enough
50:36
of a societal interest. I think it's, I care
50:39
about those families, but when you're enacting
50:42
justice, justice isn't just about the victims.
50:46
When you make car theft illegal, it's not just
50:49
about punishing the person who stole your car.
50:52
You're trying to make people not steal cars.
50:55
You're trying to make society generally safer.
50:59
This doesn't benefit any of those things. The
51:02
only thing it accomplishes is making some people's
51:07
fee-fees better. And people's feelings are important.
51:11
Victims' feelings are important. But I don't
51:13
think they balance out to over 51% of the consideration
51:16
here. And this woman, she's been through hell,
51:21
okay? God, what they put her through.
51:25
Really, they want to fucking kill her now? They
51:27
don't even know how to kill her. They tried to
51:29
kill someone else in the state of Tennessee doing
51:31
the same thing earlier this year. They still
51:33
haven't figured out how to kill him now. She
51:35
has to be firing-squadded or hung. They refused.
51:41
She's doing her best to go along with
51:45
the death thing. She even tried to tell them
51:47
where to put the needle in. At this point,
51:50
I'm on team Christa Pike. Her lawyers are asking
51:55
the court to commute her sentence to life in
51:59
prison without parole. That seems like the least
52:02
they can do. I understand your argument. And
52:07
I understand your case. And it makes sense. If
52:12
you do—people change, is there redemption? Do
52:18
people become something else? And I think it's
52:21
fair to say, and I think you're right, that anytime
52:24
somebody is in a particular environment, those
52:27
people take on the attributes of the environment.
52:29
And yes, they're who they are, but they're responding
52:31
to a particular environment. And you have some
52:33
environments that people are pointed to that
52:35
are far more difficult than others, and people
52:39
would have to play those positions much better.
52:41
Otherwise, they can end up in a situation where
52:43
they end up killing somebody. And that can take
52:46
place at 18, as you point out. They're kids,
52:48
right? I consider 18-year-olds kids. They're
52:51
kids, especially in the United States. They're
52:53
kids. But there's so many kids that make it through
52:55
life without killing somebody. And
52:58
it's a life, right? And I feel like a right-winger
53:03
making this argument. The punishment of it, you
53:07
can make a case. It's not always specific up
53:11
until the point of the person, meaning you are
53:14
being punished. Yes, you committed a murder.
53:16
Yes, this punishment sucks because you're in
53:18
jail for X amount of time. Again, yes. But at
53:21
some point, if indeed the person changes and
53:23
there's a temperamental change because of the
53:25
environment that the person is in, you can make
53:27
an argument that part of the punishment is that
53:29
also. That sounds messed up, but you can make
53:33
that case that, look, your punishment wasn't
53:36
for you to be in a state of mind where you realize
53:39
you get it and you understand it and it's your
53:41
fault that you killed somebody. It goes beyond
53:44
that point. It's the punishment that continues
53:46
on. It doesn't matter if you've changed into
53:49
a different person. The entire point of the punishment
53:51
is to be punishment that exceeds but X amount.
53:55
Now, you can make the case of saying, well, wait
53:57
a minute. What interest is it of the state to
54:02
continuously punish somebody that has fundamentally
54:03
changed from who they are? How would the state
54:06
know? How does the state know that that person
54:09
has changed? I've seen so many people that have
54:11
been incarcerated over the course of their life,
54:15
and they keep going back with crimes escalating
54:19
in intensity over and over and over again. And
54:22
I would wager to you that if people went to the
54:24
prison and they were talking to them in prison,
54:25
they seem very nice people in prison, right?
54:28
They seem very nice here. They seem like they've
54:31
made a change. Maybe they have. How would I know?
54:34
How would the state know? As you pointed out,
54:36
the state has an interest of keeping people safe.
54:38
How does the state know when somebody has committed
54:40
a violent murder that that person has fundamentally
54:43
changed, or that the environment that the person
54:45
is in is the conduit for that change, and that
54:48
that change sticks going forward? If they're
54:51
in their 60s, maybe, right? Some old man, geriatric
54:55
out there like Batman trying to kill somebody.
54:58
In their 40s and 30s and 20s, I have no idea.
55:02
There's no way for me to know that. And it's
55:04
the way for me to peer into the soul of the individual
55:06
to see whether that person has changed. I have
55:07
family members that acted that way, by the way,
55:09
that the crimes got worse and worse and worse.
55:14
Every time they were let out of prison, they
55:16
got more and more violent up to the point where
55:19
they just stayed in prison because they committed
55:21
a murder. Right. I'm a hard-ass on this, maybe.
55:27
And I don't want to be. I want to believe
55:29
in this idea of redemption. But what does that
55:32
mean? Right. And I think your
55:38
point is, well, society has to give people a chance.
55:40
I think that's your point. Yeah. Well, if not—
55:44
look, if we're just going to say that
55:47
people are disposable, and look, I'm not—
55:50
I'm not pretending that this is an easy or uncomplicated
55:52
issue. It's not. And look,
55:55
think about the Willie Horton ad that was used
55:58
to defeat Dukakis in 1988, and what was the
56:01
ad about? We always talk about how it was race-
56:03
baiting, and that's what we emphasize, right? But
56:05
what it was basically boiled down to was that
56:07
Michael Dukakis, as governor of Massachusetts,
56:09
had signed off on the parole of Willie Horton.
56:13
He went out and reoffended and killed again,
56:15
right? So therefore the person that he killed
56:18
again, in a way, was partly responsible. Michael
56:21
Dukakis was partly responsible for that happening.
56:23
The point is, when you parole someone
56:26
or you let them go, there is—or even if you
56:29
don't let them go, they might kill someone in
56:30
prison. They might reoffend. It is true that
56:33
you don't know what's in someone's heart, or,
56:36
hell, they might not even know what's
56:37
in their heart. They might not intend to reoffend,
56:39
but they might just go out and do that. And so
56:42
you're taking a gamble, for sure.
56:46
Obviously you'll have psychologists and
56:48
other—and criminologists and other experts
56:51
try to assess whether this person has been redeemed
56:55
or not, but you can't know. And so if I
56:59
think the thing is, we have—the truth is that
57:02
we've let these people survive 10, 20, 30 years
57:06
in prison behind bars beyond the point of
57:09
when they committed these crimes. Now, that's fucked
57:13
up, okay? Because they're now different. So if
57:16
you wanted to say these people are—we've decided
57:20
there's nothing we can do for them or about them,
57:23
then we should just kill them right away and
57:26
be done with it. Save the taxpayers the money
57:29
of incarcerating them. Save them the torture
57:32
of being subjected to all those years
57:35
behind bars. Save the families of the victims
57:40
years of waiting for justice slash retribution.
57:43
Just kill them. I guess I'm saying that's part
57:47
of the cost. If my uncle, for example, drunk-
57:51
drives, he gets caught. He drunk-drives again,
57:54
he gets caught. He drunk-drives again, he gets
57:56
caught. And then they take his license. And then
57:59
in order to get it back, you have to jump through
58:00
all of these hoops. And it takes years to do
58:02
it. And you say to yourself, God damn, I'm never
58:06
going to do this again. I get the lesson. Give
58:10
me my license. And it takes another two years.
58:12
It's part of the cost. It's the
58:16
look. The prison sentence in and of itself
58:19
is part of the cost. The fact that you're in
58:22
there and you change and you mature. You weren't
58:25
sentenced to prison followed by—you weren't—
58:27
when you're sentenced to capital punishment,
58:29
you're not sentenced to any—legally,
58:32
you're not told, oh, you will now spend 30 years
58:36
behind bars and then be executed. You're
58:38
just going to be sentenced to death, right?
58:40
If it was the Wild West, that would have
58:42
happened a few days later, right? Yeah,
58:45
but you don't have to be told that. That's part
58:46
of the cost of the system that we're in, where
58:48
you murder somebody and this is what comes with
58:52
it. You destroyed a life. That's not a minor
58:56
thing. No, it's the most major thing. You eliminated
59:02
all of the potential of another particular person
59:05
while on Earth. And you eliminated whatever children
59:09
and grandchildren they would have had too. If
59:12
there are other parts, or if there are other indicators
59:15
that mitigate this—the man was coming to my
59:18
house, the person was attacking my family member,
59:21
the person was attacking me—you would have me,
59:23
right? You got me. But if it's not that, and you
59:27
eliminate a life, there has to be a consequence
59:29
for that. That person could have lived for 80
59:31
years, right? 90 years. Well, no one's saying
59:33
there should be no consequence. The question
59:35
is what the consequence should be, right? And
59:38
does the consequence—is
59:42
it fair? Does it make sense? But I think primarily,
59:44
since this is a state activity and not vigilantism,
59:48
it should first and foremost—the top priority
59:51
should be to serve state interests.
59:54
If there were—if I were in charge of my socialist
59:57
revolution, that would be my concern, right?
59:59
What do I—and that's the thing
1:00:01
too. I view all human beings as a resource, as
1:00:04
valuable, including people who kill people. They're
1:00:07
still—they still have things they can contribute,
1:00:10
because someone killed someone does not mean
1:00:13
that they're worthless and can't contribute to
1:00:16
our GDP and to our greater well-being as a
1:00:19
society in some way. Think of
1:00:22
all the prisoners in California who joined the
1:00:24
smoke jumpers, and they go out and
1:00:27
help put out wildfires, and some of them die, right?
1:00:30
They're performing a valuable societal
1:00:33
function. These are maybe people
1:00:37
who did a bad thing, but now they're doing good
1:00:40
things. Look, I don't disagree with you, and
1:00:43
it's difficult for me to get this argument because
1:00:46
it's not—I'm not saying that we should feel necessarily
1:00:48
sorry for them. I'm saying that it's, I'm
1:00:51
not saying we shouldn't. I'm not saying it's not.
1:00:53
I'm saying it's not about that. It's about,
1:00:56
do you really want to keep a million or more
1:01:00
Americans locked up behind bars every year who
1:01:05
could be contributing to the economy
1:01:09
in a more meaningful way than being slave labor,
1:01:11
putting software packages together,
1:01:14
or whatever, making license plates, or
1:01:16
whatever they have? Look, for me, it is very
1:01:20
difficult for me to make some of these arguments
1:01:22
because I feel like sometimes I'm falling
1:01:24
on the right when I'm making these arguments.
1:01:25
That's okay. The right is right
1:01:27
sometimes. Sometimes I don't know, but
1:01:29
I agree with the basic premise that I don't necessarily
1:01:32
want—for sake, we have 5% of
1:01:36
the population of the globe and 25% of the populations
1:01:39
of the globe in our prisons. Meaning, of all
1:01:42
the people on the planet, 25% of those people
1:01:44
are in our jails, despite the fact that we only
1:01:46
have 5% of the country. Maybe the rest of the
1:01:48
planet is full of wuss countries. Well, no. I
1:01:51
think something is wrong with us. Yeah, and what
1:01:54
is that? That's such a screwed-up metric that
1:01:57
you think to yourself, there are more people
1:01:59
in our jails than were in the gulags, right?
1:02:02
The number is astonishing. And you think to yourself,
1:02:04
what are we doing wrong that all of these people
1:02:07
are being industrialized into these prisons in
1:02:09
this way? Now, I would like to separate out,
1:02:11
though, violent crime versus everything else.
1:02:15
Violent crime is the issue for me. The everything-
1:02:18
else stuff that we nickel and dime and find ways
1:02:21
to fuck people over from the standpoint in our
1:02:22
system. Look, man, when you have a situation
1:02:26
where people are growing up in poverty, poverty
1:02:29
makes people much more likely to commit crimes,
1:02:31
or at the very least, where there's poverty,
1:02:34
crime comes with it, because crime becomes a rational
1:02:36
act. The issue, I would argue, is the poverty.
1:02:40
That's what I would argue. I would argue deal
1:02:41
with that. I'll agree with that. I agree with
1:02:45
you. Let's stay focused on violent crime here.
1:02:47
Yeah. You are talking about capital punishment.
1:02:51
Obviously, that's only for violent crime for
1:02:53
the time being. That is going to be a much smaller
1:02:55
percentage of the entirety of the prison population
1:02:58
that is sitting in our jails. So I don't want
1:03:00
to come across as a hard-ass across the board.
1:03:02
I'm very specific to violent crime. I don't like
1:03:04
violent crime. I think that is—there's a thing
1:03:07
in me. Is there a lobby for violent crime?
1:03:11
Well, I guess there is. It's called the
1:03:13
military-industrial complex. But who's a big
1:03:17
crime? If I'm being honest, I've seen this stuff,
1:03:21
right? I've seen it in family members. I've
1:03:23
seen it against family members. My cousin, they
1:03:25
nearly murdered this guy who she was dating.
1:03:28
And it always blows my mind when women go to
1:03:30
jails and think, hey, there's so many available
1:03:33
men here, right? And it's, they're available
1:03:38
and they seem to be pretty docile because they're
1:03:41
in a jail cell, right? You have no idea
1:03:44
what this entity is when he gets out of jail.
1:03:47
But the guy goes to my aunt's house, tries to
1:03:53
murder her, fails at it, and then goes and talks
1:03:57
to the cops when the cops come. And it's,
1:03:59
hey, man, I think somebody broke in. Now, they
1:04:01
eventually put him in a cage and everything else.
1:04:03
But that guy maybe shouldn't be out. That guy
1:04:07
doesn't know how to act outside of jail, at least
1:04:10
for the time being. But the question is, should
1:04:13
that guy? This is a question. Is there a world
1:04:16
in which that guy is 62 years old and maybe it's
1:04:18
time to let him out? I have no idea, because
1:04:22
for the justice system, but also, have you
1:04:24
ever been to—I'm just going to say, if you
1:04:27
go to one of these carceral
1:04:31
institutions and you meet these people, I guarantee
1:04:36
you, yeah, there's one or two you're like, I'm glad
1:04:39
you're in here and you should be in here, but
1:04:42
the vast majority you're going to be like, this is
1:04:45
ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Dude's pushing walkers
1:04:49
around. It's really. Some of the best people
1:04:53
that I've ever met in life have had stints in
1:04:56
jail. No. Well, one out of four American men do
1:05:01
go to—do spend time in jail, right? So yeah,
1:05:04
some of what—some of the best people
1:05:06
that are new—I was in jail for drawing,
1:05:10
for putting up political cartoons on the streets
1:05:12
of New York City. But see, the rub is they didn't
1:05:16
kill anybody, right? Look, I agree
1:05:21
with your basic premise. I wanted redemption. I
1:05:24
don't know what that looks like in real life.
1:05:26
When you're watching Stargate, for example,
1:05:28
Teal'c murdered millions. How does Teal'c
1:05:32
get redemption, and does he ever get redemption, and
1:05:35
do the things that he does somehow make up for
1:05:36
the things that he did in the past? I don't have
1:05:39
an answer for that. That's a kind of Hitler. Could
1:05:42
a Hitler have gotten redemption, right?
1:05:45
That's that kind of question, right? Yeah. But
1:05:48
just for the basic murder thing.
1:05:50
That guy—remember that guy in, was
1:05:52
it some Scandinavian country? This guy, right-
1:05:56
winger, went in Denmark. And he went—or maybe
1:06:02
it was Sweden. But anyway, it was one of the
1:06:03
Scandinavian countries. He went to an island
1:06:06
where there was a retreat for the socialist
1:06:08
party and killed over a hundred people.
1:06:13
And because it's a Scandinavian country
1:06:16
and they have relatively lenient laws, that guy's
1:06:21
going to be—yeah, he's got 20 years in prison,
1:06:24
which by American standards is, dude, you
1:06:26
killed 100-plus people. You're never seeing the
1:06:29
light of day again, right? It's kind of shocking.
1:06:32
Well, but isn't that your argument? That, look,
1:06:36
in 20 years, this dude could be a different guy.
1:06:40
I think there's a—there's a better—
1:06:43
in fact, it's likely he'll be a different
1:06:46
guy. A country can make a decision and say it
1:06:51
is worth taking a risk to try to redeem a person
1:06:55
because we care about people that much. It can
1:06:58
make that choice. It could even
1:07:01
say, kind of in a Star Trek way, look, even
1:07:05
if people get killed at times, that is better
1:07:08
than us throwing people away, because the number
1:07:12
of people that will be redeemed is much greater
1:07:15
than the number of people that would die for
1:07:17
us taking the risk. Society can say that. I think
1:07:20
that's the place where—that's the place where
1:07:22
I land. Yeah, but man, that is going to be challenged
1:07:26
every time somebody kills. People who challenge
1:07:31
it are not psychos. Okay, I don't
1:07:34
look at them and think, God, they're meanies,
1:07:36
they're assholes, they're bad people. I don't
1:07:39
think that. I just think that this is a tough
1:07:41
issue, but this is where I'm at at
1:07:43
this particular point. I think sometimes you're
1:07:46
a better person than I am. I want to be there.
1:07:48
Oh, thank you. Thank you, Jamarl. I don't know
1:07:50
if that's true, though. All right. So, okay. So
1:07:55
Christa Pike. We'll revisit this. What do you think
1:07:58
should happen to her specifically? I think they
1:08:00
should let her go. Do you think she should be
1:08:02
free, or do you think she should? They had two
1:08:05
bites of the apple. They tried to kill the woman.
1:08:07
It didn't work. You've had your shot. The state
1:08:10
shouldn't just get to, hey, we tried to murder
1:08:12
her, or we tried to kill her. It didn't work.
1:08:14
So now we're just going to keep her in prison
1:08:15
forever. They had their shot. That's how I feel,
1:08:19
right? Yeah. If the axman hits you and he doesn't
1:08:24
kill you because he sucks. Grace. That's what
1:08:28
I think. I think that too. I think that's
1:08:30
almost an elementary school rule, right?
1:08:32
We all get that, right? It's
1:08:35
sort of, yeah, you had your shot. Okay.
1:08:38
We're in agreement. We're now in the second hour
1:08:41
of the program, by the way. So if you have, obviously
1:08:44
we're answering your questions anyway, but all
1:08:47
right. I have feelings about that. We do. That's
1:08:52
a touchy issue. Yeah. I don't know why. Paul Green
1:08:58
Dennis, thanks for the $2. Robby, looking forward
1:09:00
to your next Bible study. I'm looking forward
1:09:02
to it also. I plan to attend if Robby invites
1:09:05
me back. It was really, really fun. No, of course,
1:09:08
JT, you have an open invitation to come too.
1:09:10
You'd enjoy it if you're free. I am not a big—
1:09:14
I'm not a Bible person. It's not really, but
1:09:17
it's not about—it is about the Bible,
1:09:20
but it's about how, at least this last one was
1:09:23
used, how the Bible is used by Zionists to justify
1:09:27
their arguments. So it's more about logical reasoning
1:09:29
and arguing. Well, in this case, there's going
1:09:32
to—how about this? If you do a scene, pick
1:09:34
a scene from the Bible, and we can debate the
1:09:36
scene, I'll do that. I'll join. Because at that
1:09:39
point, it makes sense. If we were talking
1:09:40
about Stargate, I could just put it in that frame
1:09:42
of reference, a book or movie
1:09:46
or TV show or something like that. At that point
1:09:47
it makes more sense to me. Was David right
1:09:50
for sending—but that's the easy one. David was
1:09:52
obviously wrong for sending dude to the military
1:09:54
to get him killed to have sex with his wife.
1:09:56
I don't know. You know more of these things than
1:09:58
I do. Robby, you can come up with a really good
1:09:59
scenario. Yeah, well, in this case, it really
1:10:03
goes along with what y'all are talking
1:10:05
about here, is I will be making the biblical case
1:10:08
for the death penalty. Oh, really? Yeah. I'm going
1:10:14
to say Jesus was anti-death
1:10:16
penalty based on what? Based on the fact that
1:10:20
he's all, let he who is without sin cast the first
1:10:22
stone, and nobody's without sin. But here's the
1:10:25
part, and Christ never—there's nowhere
1:10:28
where Christ called for killing people.
1:10:32
You're 100% incorrect. He said, I've
1:10:34
not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.
1:10:37
You, sir, are barking up the wrong tree. And
1:10:41
also, you've got to remember the context of this.
1:10:43
The Pharisees are trying to trap Jesus. So I'm
1:10:46
going to save this for Friday. But what they
1:10:48
were trying to do, they were trying to trap Jesus.
1:10:50
They did this with the tax question, and they
1:10:52
also did with this, because Judea was under Roman
1:10:54
occupation. Under the Mosaic law, adultery is
1:10:57
punishable by death. Wait, wait, wait, wait,
1:11:00
wait, wait. Have the biblical argument on the
1:11:02
show. We have other stuff to talk about. But
1:11:06
Ted, if that's the argument you're going to make,
1:11:11
you've got to at least try to read your Bible
1:11:13
a little bit, because I will destroy you, sir.
1:11:16
I have multiple editions. I'll be ready for you.
1:11:21
All right. Well, I think Robby always overemphasizes
1:11:26
the Old Testament and underemphasizes the New
1:11:29
Testament, which is about redemption. And the
1:11:32
New Testament is basically—there's a supremacy
1:11:35
clause, right? When there's a conflict between
1:11:38
the Old and the New Testaments in Christianity,
1:11:40
the New Testament prevails. So, and Robby claims
1:11:44
there's no conflicts in the Bible too, which
1:11:47
is just not true. But okay, we will get into
1:11:51
that. So let the Bible debates begin. Okay, so what do you
1:12:00
want to talk about? Should we—I'm sorry.
1:12:02
Oh, no, I just said Bible wars. It's just great.
1:12:05
I've always wanted to start an astrology
1:12:08
channel, but I've always wanted to do it with
1:12:11
a female host where you can go back and forth.
1:12:13
Relationship stuff. I think it'd be fun. I've always
1:12:15
wanted to do an advice channel. Again, I think
1:12:18
I would need a female co-host with that. Yeah,
1:12:21
basically relationships and
1:12:23
that kind of thing would be so fun. People
1:12:26
are in trouble. At some point, when it's,
1:12:29
you say something to her, she starts crying. It's,
1:12:31
oh my God, now you're crying. And I could imagine
1:12:33
the audience is, he's an asshole. That guy's
1:12:35
an asshole. The men are, no, that guy has a
1:12:37
point. I think it works. Totally, totally. Anti,
1:12:42
thou shalt not kill. Art, are there no contradictions
1:12:46
in the Bible? Thanks for the $2 from
1:12:48
Anti. Okay, so what do you want to talk about
1:12:52
now? Can we just hit Lafayette Park and get it
1:12:54
out of the way? So Lafayette Park is right
1:12:58
across the street, right across Pennsylvania Avenue
1:13:00
from the White House, and over the years
1:13:04
it's always been a place where there's been a
1:13:05
lot of protest demonstrations, and
1:13:08
it's so close to the White House that if they're
1:13:10
loud enough, the president can hear the protests
1:13:14
going on. Donald Trump—hey, LBJ, how many kids
1:13:17
did he kill today? Exactly. Nixon, get the fuck
1:13:22
out. I remember when the day before Nixon resigned,
1:13:29
there was a huge mob of people across the street
1:13:32
from the White House. I was 11 years old. Lafayette
1:13:36
Park has always been a gathering place. Trump
1:13:38
just doesn't like it and wants to put a big
1:13:41
fence around it and turn it into sort of a private-
1:13:44
public park, kind of like Gramercy Park in New
1:13:47
York City, which is a private public park where
1:13:50
you only get to visit it if you have a key to
1:13:52
the park, and that only goes to people who live
1:13:55
right next door to it, who happen to all be really
1:13:57
rich. Anyway, so if he gets his way, you and
1:14:03
I both know, Jamarl, that no future president,
1:14:07
including a Democrat, would reopen it and
1:14:10
tear down the fence, because it would be,
1:14:13
well, from a security standpoint, and things
1:14:16
just last, right? These kind of changes always
1:14:18
stay. Anything that's against the people and
1:14:21
for the government always stays. I thought this
1:14:26
was kind of important. It's kind of basically
1:14:27
the enclosure of the commons, and it's theft of
1:14:30
public land. And it's just another abolition
1:14:34
of a way for the American people to try to hold
1:14:37
their leaders to account. I don't know. I think
1:14:40
it's kind of a bigger story than maybe a lot
1:14:43
of outlets are treating it as. Well, it's their
1:14:46
way of trying to stem protests. If I remember
1:14:49
correctly, and correct me if I'm wrong on this,
1:14:51
when during the Nixon protests, they had to put
1:14:53
buses around the White House because Nixon
1:14:56
was scared that the people were going to effectively
1:14:58
raid the White House. Yep. Yep. That's intense.
1:15:03
Good times. Good times. That's what shit should
1:15:07
be like. True. Nixon was terrified. And he was,
1:15:10
if I remember right, telling Kissinger,
1:15:13
they're going to come and get me, Henry. They're
1:15:14
going to come and get me. And of course, Henry
1:15:16
Kissinger was talking to the press behind the
1:15:17
scenes. Nixon basically writing out what's going
1:15:20
on in the White House. It should be that. It
1:15:25
should be that. If Nixon was a progressive president,
1:15:28
because Nixon was just progressive. Nixon was
1:15:31
a progressive president because he had all sorts
1:15:32
of pressure on him to kind of push him in a particular
1:15:35
direction. The guy was right-winger, but he was
1:15:36
still more left of center than a Democratic
1:15:40
Party is at this point, right? Yeah, true. It needs
1:15:43
to be that. It needs to be pressure. And I get
1:15:46
the sense, and I understand your take on this,
1:15:48
that putting the fence is a way of basically
1:15:50
destroying the capability of the public to try
1:15:53
to protest. Trump is not doing it because he wants
1:15:55
to carve off the area. He's doing it because he
1:15:57
doesn't like the protest. That's why. Well, it's
1:15:59
just how the DNC—it's the
1:16:01
Democratic and the Republican National Conventions,
1:16:03
and the Democrats are actually worse about this.
1:16:06
And I know because I've been to both of them
1:16:08
in recent years. They put their protest zones,
1:16:11
behind fencing, sometimes
1:16:15
a mile or two miles away from the convention
1:16:18
center, and then under a freeway. It's
1:16:23
ridiculous. There is a free speech
1:16:25
zone, they call it, right? Hey, if a protest
1:16:30
falls in the woods, does it make a sound? Well,
1:16:33
no, and there's no cameras to cover it, right?
1:16:36
A protest zone. I love that. Hey, hey, hey, this
1:16:39
is free speech. We believe in free speech because
1:16:41
we're a liberal quarter. We're a liberal country.
1:16:43
So your zone to have that free speech is miles
1:16:47
away, right? And then they would
1:16:50
say with a straight face, what do you mean? We
1:16:52
allow protests. Protest is not about being allowed.
1:16:55
Yeah, we allow protests on the moon, but where
1:16:59
no one will hear. They can make a difference
1:17:03
or make a sound. Meanwhile, think of the very
1:17:06
same courts, right? They rule that, for example,
1:17:09
that they should allow anti-abortion protesters
1:17:15
within 100 feet of the entrance of an abortion
1:17:18
clinic, right? So that the 18-year-old girl
1:17:21
scurrying in to fix their broken condom
1:17:25
mistake, they have to run a gauntlet of people
1:17:28
screaming at them. Personally, I thought that
1:17:32
was a pretty valid decision. I thought that if
1:17:35
you have free speech, you do have to let pro-
1:17:38
life people in front of abortion clinics, not
1:17:41
blocking the door, but frankly, within a reasonable
1:17:44
distance so that their speech is not only heard,
1:17:48
but it's relevant. Protesting the president of
1:17:51
the United States, you should be within shouting
1:17:53
distance. Is this okay? I know this is a divergent
1:17:57
thought, but is that—I don't need to hear free
1:18:03
speech from Randall people because there's none
1:18:06
of—meaning I suppose if you're on the sidewalk
1:18:09
or something to that effect, then okay, people
1:18:11
can be what they do. They can do what they want.
1:18:13
That's what we're talking about. But the 16-year-
1:18:15
old girl who made a mistake. Yeah, the 14-year-
1:18:17
old who made a mistake. Well, the 14-year-old, they
1:18:21
were raped by her uncle. Shouldn't have to run
1:18:23
a gauntlet of 30-year-old men screaming at
1:18:27
her. But maybe she does if she lives in a country
1:18:30
that values free speech. Yeah, but is it really
1:18:34
free speech in that sense? Meaning, I guess we're
1:18:36
free speech in the context of people say what
1:18:38
they want. Of course it's free speech. But they're
1:18:41
just—but this is, okay. I don't know. Obviously
1:18:45
it's free speech. I find it to be. Person, politically,
1:18:49
I'm opposed to that free speech, but it's still
1:18:52
free speech, clearly. It's like the Nazis marching
1:18:56
through Skokie, Illinois. It's free speech.
1:18:59
It's gross, but it's free speech. So what, they're
1:19:02
walking on pavement. I'm trying to think of the
1:19:05
one that's here in Virginia, or how they're
1:19:08
set up, because I'm trying to figure out how that
1:19:11
walkway is. But they used to have people screaming
1:19:13
bloody murder at 14-year-olds who were raped
1:19:16
by their uncles. Some, that stuff is outrageous.
1:19:19
But yeah, I suppose free speech. Being
1:19:23
14 doesn't exempt you from being insulted, offended,
1:19:29
yelled at, called names. That is true. That is
1:19:35
true. It's free speech. That's true. And free
1:19:38
speech isn't always pleasant. All right, so we
1:19:41
can dispose of that. All right. Okay, let's see
1:19:45
what else we got here in terms of comments here.
1:19:49
Jamarl, never mind that this is from Moth36. Never
1:19:53
mind the fact of Israel killing of all the Palestinians.
1:19:56
How do you get along with someone who views you
1:19:58
as less than human just because you're not a
1:20:01
Jew? Right. Yeah, I agree. No, I agree. I guess
1:20:06
the question becomes, what do you do with that?
1:20:09
Which is what I don't have an answer for. Right.
1:20:12
And I don't know if the world has an answer for.
1:20:15
No, I don't. That's why I think ultimately the
1:20:17
state, the whole thing has to be dismantled.
1:20:21
But even though you're still going to have to deal
1:20:23
with the people afterwards. So yeah, but it's
1:20:25
you guys. They are compared to dogs.
1:20:31
More in the line like that. Yeah, it's not
1:20:33
even a human being. It's, we just have to
1:20:35
kill the babies, kill the kids, because they're
1:20:36
going to be adults anyway and they're going to
1:20:38
fight us later. So if we kill them now, we can
1:20:39
avoid that. That's who you're living with.
1:20:41
And I don't know how you—I don't know what that
1:20:45
re-education camp looks like. I'll put it that
1:20:47
way. I don't know what that looks like. And for
1:20:49
what, 8 million people, give or take? 6 million?
1:20:53
Yeah. Yeah. Daniel says, I'm anti-death penalty,
1:20:59
but don't believe in romanticizing criminals
1:21:00
because they committed crimes when they were
1:21:03
young. You should still pay for what you do.
1:21:04
I don't know about romanticizing is the right
1:21:06
word here. Excusing is probably the word you're
1:21:11
looking for. It's just not very idealistic. No
1:21:15
one's romanticizing them like Bonnie and Clyde.
1:21:18
Look how cool they are. That's
1:21:20
what romanticizing is. I'm going to defend him
1:21:23
on this one. I don't think romanticizing is a
1:21:26
bit strong, but idealistic, very. It sounds very
1:21:31
idealistic to be, we can have
1:21:33
redemption. We can do this straight. We can get
1:21:35
this right. A society should be a society that
1:21:38
takes a risk, meaning we should. But Jamarl,
1:21:40
our whole society, our whole justice system,
1:21:43
all justice systems, for the most
1:21:46
part, is in some parts based on redemption.
1:21:48
For example, the idea that you can have
1:21:52
a—if we believe in a deterrence effect,
1:21:56
right? Well, deterrence, what is deterrence?
1:21:59
Deterrence implies that we have the ability, we have
1:22:01
the ability, we have free will to decide to do
1:22:04
right instead of to do wrong, right? Oh,
1:22:06
if I kill someone, I might go to prison. Therefore,
1:22:10
I'll choose not to kill someone. Why
1:22:12
do you give—supposedly gives me? The real
1:22:15
reason you give speeding tickets to motorists
1:22:17
is to raise revenue. But we pretend
1:22:20
that we do that in order to dissuade people from
1:22:22
speeding, and obviously it works. If you issue
1:22:25
a lot of speeding tickets, people will slow down.
1:22:27
And that's been shown over and over.
1:22:31
So we know people can change their behavior.
1:22:34
We know people who are alcoholics can stop
1:22:38
drinking. We know people who did bad,
1:22:42
depending on the crime, certain crimes,
1:22:45
they can stop doing those things. I don't know
1:22:47
if Elizabeth Holmes can stop lying. But
1:22:51
the point is that we all—we're all—
1:22:54
we assume that everyone's capable of changing
1:22:57
their behavior. Otherwise, if we didn't believe
1:23:00
that, we would just say, okay, the first
1:23:02
time we catch someone driving 100
1:23:05
miles an hour in a 55, that person's
1:23:09
never driving again. That would be, if
1:23:12
we didn't think people could change, that would
1:23:14
be the smart move, because I don't want those
1:23:16
people driving 100 miles an hour in a
1:23:19
55. It's dangerous. I don't want to be on the same
1:23:21
road as them. But we decide not to do that, right?
1:23:24
So we—this is just our system. So to say
1:23:30
that redemption is something we don't believe
1:23:32
in, we do believe in it. Obviously. They're
1:23:36
called corrections officers, right? To correct
1:23:39
people's behavior. They're not called punishment
1:23:42
officers. But they should be called punishment
1:23:45
officers, just like the Department of Justice
1:23:47
or the Department of War, right? It's not defense.
1:23:52
We're not defending anything. We're going out
1:23:54
and killing people. It's the Department of War.
1:23:56
It's more honest. And corrections is the propaganda
1:23:59
that we use every bit as much as the Department
1:24:01
of Defense is the propaganda that's used in
1:24:04
order to cover behavior. They're not correcting
1:24:06
anything. They're punishing. And you can make the
1:24:08
argument that the punishment and correction are
1:24:09
somewhat entangled. Fair enough. But it
1:24:13
is punishment. That is the point. Certainly punishment,
1:24:16
right? Yeah, that's it. And look, if that's the only
1:24:19
point, then I guess my question is, what point
1:24:22
does it serve? Ideally, I don't want to go to jail,
1:24:27
so I'm not going to murder Pop. Bob is—
1:24:30
I'm not going to kill Bob because I don't want
1:24:32
to go to jail, even if Bob pisses me off and
1:24:34
I hate Bob. I'm not going to kill him. Yeah,
1:24:36
you're hoping to change behavior. Well, you're
1:24:38
trying to deter behavior. I'm deterring Tim.
1:24:41
But you're also trying to deter not just the
1:24:43
behavior of people who've never done this,
1:24:46
committed this crime. You're also trying
1:24:48
to deter the behavior of the person who has committed
1:24:50
that crime to make them not reoffend. Right.
1:24:53
And the death penalty—the number of
1:24:55
people that are on the death penalty are small,
1:24:56
obviously, in comparison to the number of people
1:24:58
that are in jail. Many people get life in prison.
1:25:00
Many people get 20, 30 years, in which case
1:25:03
they get out later on in life. It reminds me,
1:25:05
if you talk about Nidal Hasan, right? Yeah.
1:25:09
A Fort Hood shooter. But anyway, go ahead. Well,
1:25:12
I'll just make the point. It's not everybody's
1:25:14
thrown away. People do get out. Yeah. They do
1:25:18
get out. People get out after 20 years, 30 years.
1:25:21
They should. You could say that maybe that's
1:25:25
too long, because I guess the point is it came
1:25:27
across very idealistic, this idea of how we
1:25:32
should treat our prisoners and the willingness
1:25:35
of a society to be willing to accept additional
1:25:38
crimes. And by the way, we do. We do it already.
1:25:40
The rapist who gets out, who most likely will
1:25:44
rape again. The child predator who gets out, who
1:25:47
will most likely rape a child again. It's problematic.
1:25:49
You don't kill these people. They put him in prison.
1:25:52
We let him out at some point. So we do take risks
1:25:54
as a society. Also, Grizz has a comment here.
1:25:59
Don't disagree with Ted. But with a lot of things,
1:26:02
the answer is bigger than the question. We could
1:26:04
have a place for people who did something and
1:26:06
have to carry that if we had a different society.
1:26:09
That is an interesting point, right?
1:26:11
There's, at this point, that we
1:26:14
don't have a lot of gradients of where to store
1:26:19
people, halfway houses and stuff like that.
1:26:22
What if we had some kind of venue or territory
1:26:27
where people are in this gray zone?
1:26:30
We've kind of—the corrections
1:26:32
departments have come to conclude that they're
1:26:35
not—we don't need to execute
1:26:37
them, or we don't need to keep them in prison
1:26:38
forever. Pardon. We have Greenland. We can send
1:26:42
them, take them to Greenland. Or yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:26:45
Montana, I hear, is free. By the
1:26:49
way, do you think that we already have the system
1:26:51
that you're talking about? Because as I make
1:26:53
the point, we don't execute everybody. The executions
1:26:57
are very low. Most of the people are either in
1:26:59
for life, or they get out after 20, 30 years,
1:27:01
meaning it's still a system where the people
1:27:03
have changed, as you point out, and reentered
1:27:06
society, and society takes the risk of whether
1:27:08
or not those people have actually changed in
1:27:10
reality, because you can't peer to the soul of
1:27:12
the person. And by the way, almost nobody reoffends
1:27:14
in those situations, right? In fact,
1:27:16
with serial killers, studies have shown that
1:27:19
almost—the guy that
1:27:21
they caught in Long Island, right? Horford, or
1:27:24
whatever his name is. He, Heuermann. That guy.
1:27:29
He stopped killing a while ago,
1:27:32
and it's because he kind of aged out of it. Serial
1:27:34
killers, they see, yeah, they don't do
1:27:37
it, right? There was the sleeper killer
1:27:40
in Southern California. That guy, they
1:27:44
called him that because he went cold. They just—
1:27:46
they stopped. Humans aren't just—are just not
1:27:49
into that much gratuitous killing once they
1:27:52
turn 50, unless they work for the government,
1:27:54
in which case they're all about sending other
1:27:56
people to do it. No, but those people would still
1:27:59
kill. It's opportunity. Their body broke down. It's
1:28:02
kind of my grandfather. My grandfather
1:28:04
used to—angry alcoholic. Even when he was
1:28:08
in his 60s, would still be walking to the store
1:28:10
in the middle of the snow, in the middle
1:28:12
of a snowstorm, to get his Aristocrat alcohol,
1:28:14
to get back home. He would still do it, meaning
1:28:17
he did it because the drive was there. But when
1:28:20
the body breaks down, it becomes hard. If you got
1:28:23
arthritis, it's kind of hard to run up
1:28:26
on somebody, inject them, take them back to your
1:28:28
kill lab, and do all of this stuff in the middle
1:28:31
of video cameras when you're in your 60s. In your
1:28:34
20s, yeah, 30s, yes. 40s, maybe. 60s, it's hard.
1:28:40
It's not that the will broke down. The body broke
1:28:42
down. I'm going to surprise a lot of people because
1:28:45
a lot of people just think I'm just some kind
1:28:47
of a hard-ass. And in some ways, I guess that's
1:28:49
true. I am in no way, shape, or form a defender
1:28:55
of our current justice system. It's not a justice
1:28:57
system, it's a legal system. The vast majority
1:28:59
of people in jail should not be locked up in
1:29:01
cages for 10, 15, 20, 30 years so the best years
1:29:05
of their lives are wasted. If you're a drug dealer,
1:29:10
you should be put down. You're selling poison.
1:29:13
But if you're an addict, you should get rehab.
1:29:16
You should go to a vocational school. You should
1:29:18
learn a trade. If you are a car thief, to your
1:29:21
point, Ted, that seems to be your—you're hanging
1:29:23
up right now. Don't steal my car. Although, actually,
1:29:27
it would be a blessing. I need a new one. Well,
1:29:29
the point is that there are a lot of things you're
1:29:32
able to do where you're able to pay restitution,
1:29:35
to pay off the person that you hurt either physically
1:29:37
or by stealing their stuff, learn a trade, and
1:29:41
then become a productive member of society. Felons
1:29:43
should not have their voting rights stripped
1:29:45
from them forever. That's dumb. It's stupid.
1:29:48
Agreed. Our system is not about justice, and
1:29:51
it's not about redemption. It's about profit.
1:29:54
That is a statement of fact. That being said,
1:29:57
if you are intentionally going out of your way
1:30:00
and you are destroying someone's life, either
1:30:04
by raping them or selling the poison, that person
1:30:07
dies of a drug overdose, or if you murder someone,
1:30:10
you should not be on death row for 30 years.
1:30:14
After six months, your head should be on a spike.
1:30:16
I'm sorry. You're done. You're kind of agreeing
1:30:19
with me, Robby. It's if we're going to
1:30:21
kill people, we should just kill them and not
1:30:23
kill them after 23, 40 years. Justice delayed
1:30:26
is justice denied. There's no justice in the
1:30:28
system. It is all about profit. And the vast
1:30:31
majority of people in jail should not be there.
1:30:35
They should be given a chance. They should get
1:30:37
education. They should get a chance at starting
1:30:40
a business. They should have a chance at starting
1:30:42
a new life. And they should really be made to
1:30:46
understand the harm that society suffers when
1:30:49
they commit a crime. That's the Chinese system.
1:30:54
There's a difference between redemption, which
1:30:56
I'm a firm believer of, and then giving someone
1:30:59
and say, oh, well, yeah, sure, you murdered this
1:31:02
person, but no, 40 years has passed. First of
1:31:05
all, I shouldn't be sucking air for 40 years.
1:31:06
So now you're a different person because you
1:31:08
aged out. No, sorry, your head should be on a
1:31:10
spike. Look, I would agree. With justice deferred
1:31:15
is justice not. You have my agreement. And if
1:31:19
they get all of the legal due process, it's that
1:31:26
part. It's not that I love. Well, they never
1:31:29
get due process. Well, due process from the standpoint
1:31:33
of the legal wranglings that take place, which
1:31:36
is why this stuff takes place for all of its
1:31:38
time. But they were mostly
1:31:39
never properly represented in the first place.
1:31:42
Well, there's that, too. It depends.
1:31:45
Most people who are on death row aren't rich,
1:31:47
right? Right. Yeah. And they're disproportionately
1:31:51
Black because they're disproportionately poor,
1:31:54
right? So yeah. Okay, so one comment here
1:32:02
from Maria Lore. It's really simple. If you participate
1:32:04
in capital executions, you're an accomplice in
1:32:07
murder. It is state murder. It is
1:32:11
state murder. Yeah, the state is making a choice
1:32:13
for killing. Yes, no question. Which, and they
1:32:17
up often, which is as we've seen. I would say the
1:32:22
state of Tennessee has lost its execution
1:32:24
license. It's, dudes, you can't be trusted
1:32:28
to execute anyone. You're too stupid. If Tennessee
1:32:31
can't get this right, either they need to start
1:32:33
going back to firing squads or adopt the Iranian
1:32:36
model and throw someone off of a skyscraper. See,
1:32:38
they don't want to do that because that looks—
1:32:40
that looks too impolite. And in fact, to
1:32:47
your point, Jamarl, what's going on here is that
1:32:50
this system, their current system, which was
1:32:52
meant to look more polite, is looking rude. It
1:32:55
looks horrible. It's the look that's really
1:33:00
fucking them up here. The look is the issue.
1:33:02
It's, oh man, firing squad looks so violent.
1:33:05
It looks like we're actually killing somebody.
1:33:06
But now firing squad's looking a little better.
1:33:09
Yeah. It's, we want them to look like. Speaking
1:33:11
of which, firing squad, let's talk about Hasan
1:33:14
Piker. So Hasan Piker was—sorry, Hasan
1:33:18
Piker, Nidal Hasan. God, I can't believe it.
1:33:20
I was, what? Yeah. Different Hasan, right?
1:33:26
Yeah, so he was the Fort Hood shooter in 2009.
1:33:33
He was a psychologist, right, at this base in
1:33:38
Texas. His job was to basically counsel returning
1:33:43
vets with PTSD from Afghanistan and Iraq. He
1:33:48
slowly got radicalized, and basically the people
1:33:52
who sentenced him to death in the military
1:33:56
tribunal, they said that he was basically that
1:34:00
the main cause motivation here was Islamic radicalization,
1:34:04
but they kind of brushed off the fact that he
1:34:06
was kind of losing his mind even
1:34:08
before that. Some of his co-workers were questioning
1:34:13
whether he was psychotic. He—some other
1:34:18
instructors were worried about him. They said
1:34:20
that he was checked out, aloof, paranoid, weird-
1:34:23
ass. And anyway, and then he went on a rampage
1:34:27
and used grenades and guns to kill his colleagues
1:34:31
at Fort Hood. And he was sentenced to death.
1:34:35
He's been languishing since 2009 in the military
1:34:40
brig. Pete Hegseth, who is heterosexual in all
1:34:45
respects and not gay and is not attracted to
1:34:48
men in any way, shape, or form and has a lot of
1:34:51
testosterone that's not directed towards having
1:34:53
sex with men's anuses, said that justice is finally
1:34:57
going to be served and that they're going to
1:35:00
subject him, and Trump signed off on this, to death
1:35:04
by firing squad. And they're all very proud of
1:35:07
this, to the point where the White House is messaging
1:35:10
this on their official Twitter feed, and they're
1:35:13
bragging about how they're finally going to carry
1:35:16
out justice against this guy. My take on
1:35:21
this guy, not the Sun Piker, Nidal Hasan,
1:35:24
is that he's a nut, that he's a broken person
1:35:29
whose mind was fried at some point, and
1:35:33
they should—the insanity defense didn't
1:35:38
work. Didn't work. It almost never works in civilian
1:35:41
court, but it didn't work because it was military
1:35:44
court, where they have a different system of justice.
1:35:47
But the point is he should be in a
1:35:50
psychiatric institution, right? Not subjected
1:35:54
to firing squad. They shouldn't be proud about
1:35:58
it. It shouldn't be anything about it. Why are
1:36:01
you—they're so bloodthirsty and gleeful
1:36:05
about it. They're having a great time. They're
1:36:08
congratulating themselves, which I don't quite
1:36:10
get. Can I just tell you, I think that there's
1:36:12
a lot of race coding going on here.
1:36:15
It's the fact that he's Muslim and he has
1:36:17
that name. Nidal Hasan, they're otherizing
1:36:21
him. They're, oh, literally
1:36:23
these days, all the talking points on the right
1:36:26
on social media are about the evils of Islam.
1:36:29
Right. Our New York City's evil Muslim mayor
1:36:33
in France. Cities are burning because Muslims
1:36:38
are in the schools and are setting them on fire.
1:36:40
None of this is true. And
1:36:44
this is, and it's. If this dude were white,
1:36:47
the guy who blew up the federal building
1:36:49
in Oklahoma City, they wouldn't be doing this.
1:36:54
Yeah, I don't get the pride in this. I don't
1:36:58
get the, a man murders a bunch of people, and
1:37:03
the process of, quote unquote, justice that takes
1:37:06
place, it's the process of justice. Turning
1:37:10
around and somehow boosting this, look
1:37:12
how great we are because we did so-and-so.
1:37:15
That doesn't feel right. I can't put my finger
1:37:19
on it. It doesn't feel right. The chest thump
1:37:21
it. It's just is what it is, if that makes sense.
1:37:24
There are all sorts of people who are, as
1:37:26
you point out, either put to death, put in prison,
1:37:28
et cetera, et cetera. None of those people get
1:37:30
the president chest-thumping about X, Y, Z taking
1:37:32
place. It very well could be the fact that he
1:37:35
is Muslim that they are effectively languishing
1:37:39
on. But him being a Muslim most likely had nothing
1:37:42
to do with this. Anybody could be radicalized.
1:37:47
Looking at what the United States is effectively
1:37:49
doing around the world, the killings and everything
1:37:51
else, you may feel some kind of way about that.
1:37:54
But that doesn't mean that the people go and
1:37:57
shoot up a place. Something else may be going
1:37:59
on here. I agree with you that this is probably
1:38:01
a psychological thing. I think it's two things.
1:38:05
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. No,
1:38:09
I was saying I think it's two things. One, Trump
1:38:12
is trying to signal to his base. He knows the
1:38:14
Republicans are going to get wrecked in November,
1:38:17
and he's trying to show that he's strong on crime
1:38:19
and that we're bringing justice to this Islamic
1:38:22
terrorist. I think that's part of it. It's not
1:38:25
going to do any good. But on the flip side of
1:38:28
it, though, I think you see this with Republicans
1:38:30
and Democrats. They love the idea of killing.
1:38:34
They love the idea of killing. There is no greater
1:38:37
power that anyone can have than to take a life.
1:38:40
There's no greater power. It's a thrill. It's
1:38:42
like a drug to these people. There's one thing about killing someone out of justice.
1:38:48
The government should be the sort of the
1:38:50
state show, but it should be about justice. This
1:38:52
is about justice. This is them getting
1:38:54
off on killing, which is wrong. There's
1:38:58
no such thing as justice. There are approximations
1:39:02
that people have in their minds of trying to
1:39:05
balance an equation that can never be balanced,
1:39:07
because whatever the fuck just happened still
1:39:10
exists. I don't believe in the thing of justice.
1:39:13
People may try to give revenge. They can try
1:39:16
to create deterrence. Justice is hard because
1:39:21
so many people think of it different ways. Robby
1:39:24
thinks it's justice to kill a drug dealer. I
1:39:26
don't. Which one is right? Depends upon who you
1:39:29
talk to, right? Society can come up with all
1:39:31
sorts of ideas of what some kind of approximation
1:39:34
is in order to balance an equation. I don't know
1:39:37
the equation. I don't know how you balance the
1:39:39
equation. In this case, the guy killed a lot
1:39:42
of people. They're going to execute him for it.
1:39:45
Does it balance an equation? Not really. Not
1:39:49
really. I don't know. There's something
1:39:51
nasty in chest-thumping this. I get the
1:39:56
state does what the state does, but murder shouldn't
1:39:58
necessarily be something that people applaud,
1:40:01
really. Let's definitely have it on television.
1:40:06
That's what I was about to say. Do y'all think
1:40:08
that Trump would sell pay-per-view tickets?
1:40:11
I could see it. You get to see us waste this
1:40:14
time. No, it should be free. It should be on
1:40:16
C-SPAN. Trump doesn't do nothing for free. It's
1:40:18
always a good detail. There's always a good detail.
1:40:22
And Laura Loomer would be right there. She'd
1:40:24
be cheerleading it. We're going to send this
1:40:27
evil dog-eating Muslim to meet his God. We're
1:40:31
going to be doing it. They're going to get off
1:40:32
on it when his brains are splattered out of
1:40:35
his body as a courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer.
1:40:39
It's going to come as a mercy to him. You can look at his face. He
1:40:44
is so tortured and fucked up. He's a soldier.
1:40:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I strongly suspect, I think
1:40:53
I agree with you. If this was in a regular court,
1:40:55
he might have gotten off on insanity stuff. But
1:40:57
I don't know. Sometimes when the killing is bad,
1:41:00
the insanity plea just doesn't work. The insanity
1:41:04
plea doesn't—it works only a small fraction
1:41:08
of the time that it ought to. Yeah, I think most—I think a lot of people who kill people
1:41:14
are psychotic. That's—this could create—if everybody who was
1:41:20
truly insane, and let's say we could climb into
1:41:22
their brains under the hood and really determine
1:41:25
that, we may get to that point to be able to do
1:41:27
that, right? At some point it might be determined
1:41:30
just simply by a certain level of amino acids
1:41:33
that, oh, this person's insane. We
1:41:36
were able to determine that beyond a shadow of
1:41:38
a doubt. And it's probably half of half
1:41:43
of everybody who's convicted of murder
1:41:45
probably should be sent to an asylum instead,
1:41:48
instead of prison. I think a lot about
1:41:53
the human system later, meaning we are—have
1:41:57
you seen those things that they can hook up
1:41:59
to a person's brain and see what the person on
1:42:01
some level is thinking? The computer is making
1:42:03
an interpretation, but it makes your horse running,
1:42:06
and it says you're thinking of a horse, and person
1:42:08
saying yes, yes. On some level that's terrifying.
1:42:10
On some level that stuff is exciting. There's
1:42:13
stuff like this. It's cool, kind of. But it's
1:42:17
frightening also, yeah. Yeah, it's a capitalistic
1:42:19
system, man. They're not making that stuff
1:42:21
for my benefit, or just because they're curious
1:42:25
and want the knowledge, right? Yeah. Right. There's
1:42:28
a motivation for it, because somebody has to pay
1:42:30
for the equipment. Somebody has to pay for the
1:42:31
time. Somebody has to pay for it, et cetera,
1:42:33
et cetera, which means they're doing it under
1:42:35
this idea that this is going to be profitable
1:42:37
later. Okay, profitable how? Well, we may have
1:42:39
brain devices that can look into a person's brain.
1:42:41
Okay, well, what about control? Can you also
1:42:44
send electrical signals to the brain in order
1:42:46
to control the individual itself? Okay, well,
1:42:48
that terrifies me. That's terrifying. It's one
1:42:53
thing if we were in a kumbaya world, you had
1:42:56
your communist utopia, planned economy, the world
1:43:00
is great. We're at the end of history. There's
1:43:02
no poverty. There's no capitalistic instinct
1:43:05
of, hey, we need to make a huge profit on this.
1:43:08
We're making technology because of the benefit
1:43:10
of society. Okay, then fair enough. I'm there.
1:43:14
But just robots? No. Or them putting you on a
1:43:18
lie detector in a courtroom and they can look
1:43:20
in your brain and they're asking you questions
1:43:21
and everything shows up on the thing and they
1:43:23
can get a legal document, a court order to plug
1:43:26
you into this machine to see your thoughts. I
1:43:29
don't know if I want that. Absolutely. It's also
1:43:33
the last place where we still have some privacy,
1:43:35
right? Yeah. The last frontier. European Union.
1:43:42
So they're—I don't know how I feel about the
1:43:46
fact that, so it has 27 members already.
1:43:50
They want to expand further. They want to, the
1:43:54
EU. They want to, so in order—the countries
1:44:01
that are next in line, they say, are Montenegro,
1:44:04
Albania. Those make sense. They're in Europe.
1:44:07
But Ukraine and Moldova, are they really in Europe?
1:44:13
-ish, on the edges anyway, on the periphery
1:44:17
of Europe. Anyway, so they're talking about,
1:44:21
pardon, it depends on whether you think Russia
1:44:25
is Europe, meaning if you think it's Europe, then
1:44:29
Ukraine is part of Europe. Historically,
1:44:31
yeah, historically Western Russia has been considered
1:44:34
part of Europe, right? So okay, fine, fair enough.
1:44:37
So anyway, the point is, and I know that
1:44:43
this is not really a Russia thing. The Russians
1:44:45
don't even care if the Ukrainians join the EU.
1:44:49
They're fine with it. I don't know that. That's
1:44:51
what Putin said. Putin says he has no issue with
1:44:55
it at all. He said it over and over and over.
1:44:57
I think it actually would serve to Russia's advantage
1:45:00
to have an EU member state run on its border,
1:45:03
because in the future they'd be able to trade
1:45:05
with it and it would be right there. I don't
1:45:09
know. Because the EU has become so militarized.
1:45:13
In the very beginning, maybe. But now, keep in mind that there was the entire impetus
1:45:19
of this. Rees-Mogg often didn't necessarily
1:45:22
want to bring this up. I would bring it up. Part
1:45:25
of the reason that the war took place in the
1:45:28
first place. Ukraine was given a deal by Europe.
1:45:32
Ukraine was given a deal by the Russians. The
1:45:34
Russian deal was obviously better. The Europeans
1:45:36
were pushing Ukraine to take that deal. Ukraine
1:45:38
didn't take that deal. And all hell broke loose,
1:45:41
which means there was a closeness
1:45:44
attempted with trying to get Ukraine into
1:45:48
the EU, or at the very least to be some kind
1:45:50
of trade deal with the European Union that would
1:45:51
have locked it into all sorts of things where
1:45:53
it could necessarily make deals and trades with
1:45:55
Russia. I don't know if Russia is going to be
1:45:58
okay with that going forward. For one,
1:46:00
I don't even know, I don't even believe Ukraine
1:46:02
is going to maintain the government it has now.
1:46:04
So a Russian puppet government of Ukraine
1:46:08
being part of the European Union, maybe.
1:46:13
I don't know. That's where this is relevant, and
1:46:16
I think actually what you're saying is so
1:46:18
germane to this. So in order—they have—they've just—the European
1:46:24
Commission has just promoted some more some
1:46:28
reforms for what requirements there would be
1:46:31
for new member states, including Ukraine, right?
1:46:35
So one of them is what they could—they want to
1:46:37
prevent democratic backsliding. They're comparing
1:46:40
it to Viktor Orbán in Hungary. So they want to
1:46:44
know. So they're saying that they would have—
1:46:46
if once you're admitted to the EU as a new state,
1:46:49
you would be kind of on probation for 15 years.
1:46:53
And then if you rolled back rule of law or human
1:46:57
rights reforms, then your money, your funding
1:47:00
would be frozen and your council voting rights
1:47:03
would be suspended. Obviously, that's
1:47:07
seems to be targeted at countries like Ukraine, which,
1:47:09
as you say, may very well end up with a different
1:47:14
form of government post-Zelensky. Well, but Ukraine is a democracy with no Nazis. Right.
1:47:21
It's a democracy with no elections. And it's
1:47:24
got a Jewish president who has no problem going
1:47:29
to memorial services for Nazi collaborators.
1:47:31
Right. But I'm just making an argument like this.
1:47:34
I'm making a joke about how they, well, there
1:47:37
are no Nazis in Ukraine, and this is obviously
1:47:39
a bastion of democracy, and people aren't being
1:47:41
snatched off the streets by goons and thugs and
1:47:44
thrown in the jeeps and cars and driven to their
1:47:46
deaths. No, none of those things are happening.
1:47:48
And by the way, they still say that. They still
1:47:50
say there are no press gangs, and you can see
1:47:54
video after video after video. There are no Nazis
1:47:56
in Ukraine. There were German tanks with Nazi insignias
1:48:00
riding through Kursk for the first time in
1:48:02
60, 70 years, right? Don't give me this nonsense,
1:48:05
right? I don't know how this puppet government
1:48:08
that will be put into play when the war ends,
1:48:10
because Ukraine will lose, and they are not, right?
1:48:13
Russia is not going to allow this puppet or this
1:48:16
government that is effectively a foil for
1:48:19
them. They're not going to tolerate a
1:48:21
Yanukovych-type situation again, where
1:48:26
they have an ally but who's weak. They're going
1:48:29
to need to have their person
1:48:31
in. Their person. And so this notion of joining
1:48:35
the European Union, it's, how does that
1:48:38
work? Europe. And then it's, how does
1:48:42
this work in the context of a war? I don't know
1:48:45
how that works in the context of a war where
1:48:46
Ukraine is being bombed to smithereens. How does
1:48:50
that work? Ukraine is being—for one, Kramatorsk,
1:48:52
Slovyansk is being surrounded. Russia is making
1:48:55
gains on other fronts. And I think there are
1:48:57
parts of the front that was fluid, in Lyman,
1:48:59
the last I checked. But they are being rained
1:49:02
with missiles every night going for the last
1:49:06
several days at the very least. And this doesn't
1:49:08
even touch the other parts of Ukraine that are
1:49:10
getting hit. How does a country that is $30 billion
1:49:14
shortfall this year, and will have another
1:49:18
shortfall next year and the next year, how does
1:49:20
that join the European Union? I don't know how
1:49:23
that works. I get it for Albania. Albania
1:49:26
is a great place. I get it for Albania. I don't
1:49:29
know how it works for Ukraine. I just don't. Yeah.
1:49:33
Not to mention after years of war. Right. Just they have a lot of reconstruction to do.
1:49:40
And who's going to pay for the reconstruction?
1:49:41
That's the other interesting part. Well, that's
1:49:43
my—yeah, that's my point here. And then the other
1:49:46
thing, the other European Commission in Brussels
1:49:48
also came up with another proposed reform for
1:49:52
new member states. They say that. And so currently
1:49:55
there's one—a single country can veto a proposal.
1:50:00
That would no longer be true. They'd go to qualified
1:50:04
majority voting so that on a bunch of important
1:50:08
processes, no one country could veto any proposed
1:50:12
policy change. So basically, they kind of want
1:50:15
to turn. Oh, wait a minute. Can
1:50:20
we add one thing to this? They're so foolish.
1:50:23
They're so foolish about this. Obviously, they're
1:50:26
doing this because Hungary kept holding up. Hungary
1:50:28
and Slovakia was holding up a lot of the
1:50:30
stuff that they wanted to do in regards to the
1:50:31
European Union to, quote, punish Russia, right? So
1:50:34
their thing now is, okay, we can't give majority
1:50:37
support in the way that we operated prior, and
1:50:41
we want to take the European Union to war with
1:50:43
Russia in an economic sense, even against our
1:50:46
member states, because keep in mind the stuff
1:50:49
that they were doing were damaging many of the
1:50:51
countries in Europe, and they still were going
1:50:52
along with it. Hungary, Viktor Orbán was, this
1:50:55
is nonsense. Why are we doing this? And you're
1:50:58
trying to damage us, so we're not going to take
1:50:59
policy that's going to damage us. And they hated
1:51:03
that, right? They did everything in their power
1:51:05
to get rid of Viktor Orbán. They hated his guts.
1:51:08
Don't give me this democracy shit. What they
1:51:10
did in Romania is outrageous. It's outrageous.
1:51:15
And even the stuff that Germany is doing, where
1:51:17
they're going after the AfD, trying to find legal
1:51:19
ways in order to keep them from taking power
1:51:21
in the various locations. I'm trying to point
1:51:23
out that this idea that they are, quote, democratic
1:51:26
is nonsense. And this provision is one of those
1:51:30
things of, okay, let's not just have this. Let's
1:51:33
just have majority support so we can do any and
1:51:35
everything that we want to do. Well, and you
1:51:38
know, it's so funny because it's so transparent,
1:51:40
right? It's, okay, so we set up the rules
1:51:42
this one way, all for one, one for
1:51:44
all, from the very beginning.
1:51:47
And if you're in, you're a full-fledged member.
1:51:49
And even if you're little Montenegro, you're
1:51:52
as powerful as France. Okay, whatever. But then
1:51:56
it's, oh. The votes aren't going our way.
1:51:59
We have Hungary is causing us problems.
1:52:03
They're voting. So rather than try to convince
1:52:05
Hungary or make it sweet in the pot for them
1:52:09
or whatever, work with them, or accept the fact
1:52:12
that it's not going to happen because Hungary
1:52:14
says no, we're going to change the rules so that
1:52:16
we can just sort of ignore their vote.
1:52:18
You can see this continuing logically to the
1:52:21
point where even with a simple majority vote,
1:52:23
if they start losing those simple majority votes,
1:52:26
then they'll be, well, we should probably
1:52:28
change the rules so that only France and Germany
1:52:31
really get to vote. And it's, so we
1:52:34
have to have our way no matter what. That's the
1:52:37
thing. But the thing about a real democracy is
1:52:40
you literally let the chips fall where they may.
1:52:43
It's why the Democratic Party is not a
1:52:46
small-d democratic institution. They're not willing
1:52:49
to just let the voters show up and elect the
1:52:52
people who win, and then you accept who won. That's
1:52:55
what democracy is. You don't put your thumb on
1:52:57
the scale and, oh, but if a democratic
1:53:00
socialist from Vermont is going to win, well,
1:53:03
we'll change the rules to not allow that.
1:53:06
That's not a democracy. Yeah, it's supposed to
1:53:08
be a process issue. It's a machine. You're
1:53:11
not switching the gears to
1:53:14
try to get something that you want. You made the
1:53:16
machine the way you wanted it because you wanted
1:53:18
it to function a particular way, and it's,
1:53:20
God, man, this machine is not really giving me
1:53:22
what we need. We need to make some adjustments
1:53:26
here. It's banging on the Magic 8 Ball
1:53:30
over and over because you're not getting the
1:53:32
answer that you want. Or a court case, right?
1:53:37
Where it's the judge is, God, man,
1:53:39
this isn't giving us the answer that we need.
1:53:40
So I need to somehow adjust what I'm doing in
1:53:42
order to get the result that I want. It's that.
1:53:44
Or the retrial. Oh, God, this person, we
1:53:48
weren't able to convict them. There were 11 juries.
1:53:53
We had only one juror who wanted to convict.
1:53:56
We'll retry them. It'll be fine. We'll just keep
1:53:58
going. We'll get the result at some point. And
1:54:00
by the way, the European Union has done this
1:54:01
before when I think it was Ireland,
1:54:05
and it was somewhere else that didn't want to join
1:54:06
initially, and they kept doing the vote over and
1:54:09
over and over until they got the vote that they
1:54:11
wanted. Now, the European Union is an institution
1:54:13
that is very undemocratic. People think
1:54:16
of the European—I'm sorry, the EU. Some people
1:54:18
think of when they think of it, they think of
1:54:19
the European Union. The European Union is a
1:54:21
stamp. It's not the brain of the organization,
1:54:25
right? The European Commission is the brain
1:54:28
of the organization. But they have power diffused
1:54:33
in very strange ways. People always talk about
1:54:34
China. It's, oh, China is authoritarian. They're
1:54:37
undemocratic. And you bring out, okay, well, this
1:54:40
is how China does its elections. And it was,
1:54:41
okay, well, that's not democratic. What the hell
1:54:43
is this? The people who are chosen at the
1:54:46
European Commission are not voted in. They are
1:54:50
chosen, meaning it would be the way
1:54:53
we used to do our politics, where the president
1:54:55
was chosen from the House of Representatives
1:54:56
or something like that. It's kind of that
1:54:58
at some point. We started to choose the president
1:55:01
directly. They never have. The European Union,
1:55:05
the part that people actually vote on, is a rubber
1:55:07
stamp and barely has power in the institution
1:55:10
itself. And what they did to Romania is criminal.
1:55:16
What they did to Romania is criminal. Călin
1:55:19
Georgescu right now is facing jail once again.
1:55:22
If I'm not mistaken, he was arrested a few days
1:55:23
ago. He should be prime minister of Romania as
1:55:27
we speak. He won the first round. He was going
1:55:29
to win the second round. And they arrested him.
1:55:32
Stop the elections. Stop the elections in order
1:55:36
to put in somebody else so they can get the person
1:55:39
that they wanted. That's what they tried
1:55:40
to do to Marine Le Pen, right? Yeah. It's so
1:55:44
outrageous. And what they're doing to the AfD,
1:55:47
where they're having investigations and whatnot
1:55:48
into the AfD. Before we go, we should talk a
1:55:51
little bit about France. The protests are continuing.
1:55:54
And by the way, the new polls show that if the
1:55:57
runoff were held tomorrow, it would be between
1:55:59
the far right and the far left. It would be between
1:56:01
Marine Le Pen and Jean-Luc Mélenchon. And there's
1:56:05
no room for the centrists. Those sad, sad, sad.
1:56:12
That would be—now, that's an election that,
1:56:15
come on. Everyone has a reason to care
1:56:18
about that one. There's going to be high voting
1:56:20
or not for that. That's what our election should
1:56:22
have been. Sanders and Trump. That's more honest,
1:56:26
right? And a real—nobody could argue
1:56:30
that there's not a stark choice. Yeah. Which
1:56:33
is what would have gotten asses in seats, made
1:56:35
people pay attention, they would have gave a
1:56:37
shit. And by the way, Trump would have been trounced
1:56:39
in that election. I don't believe that a blue-
1:56:42
collar billionaire against a real lefty is going
1:56:45
to be able to stand up to it. I agree with that.
1:56:48
Totally. Okay, so we have a little Robby controversy
1:56:53
to close out today's show with. Just filming,
1:56:56
really. Robby has a very wild brain to be a
1:56:58
Christian. Imagine listening to Robby on here
1:57:00
and then seeing him in real life. And then, well,
1:57:03
I don't have to imagine that. I've seen him in
1:57:04
real life. And he tries to tell you about God
1:57:06
or his religion. I don't know how any Christian
1:57:09
can be so heartless. But then Philip Blair retorts,
1:57:12
I don't think Robby is heartless. I think Robby
1:57:14
has been stewing in the same or worse crap as
1:57:17
the rest of us, and all of us Westerners stink
1:57:19
after stewing in this barbaric, neo-feudal
1:57:21
crap stew. Well, Robby, I think, bathes frequently
1:57:26
enough to get the neo-feudal crap stew off
1:57:29
of him. But I can certainly vouch for
1:57:32
Robby not being heartless. He is not heartless
1:57:35
at all. That's certainly true. Ted, what does
1:57:38
c'est moi mean? C-E-S-T-M-O-I. It means,
1:57:43
it's me. C'est moi. C'est moi. Okay. What are
1:57:48
you looking at? When I was in France, my girl,
1:57:51
she was my girlfriend at the time. She became
1:57:53
my wife later. Divorcee after that. Later still.
1:57:59
She had learned so much French by the time we
1:58:01
had gotten to the country that she was on point.
1:58:04
She knew her shit left and right. She was great.
1:58:07
It's, so the most famous c'est moi is Louis
1:58:11
XIV said, l'état, c'est moi. The state, it's
1:58:14
me. No, I am the state. I am the state. And under
1:58:19
Louis XIV, well, that was wishful thinking,
1:58:21
because he did have an aristocratic council to
1:58:25
have to deal with, even though he was as close
1:58:27
to an absolute ruler that France ever saw during
1:58:32
the Ancien Régime. That was when they chopped
1:58:35
off his head, right? No, that's Louis XVI. Louis
1:58:38
XIV was the Sun King. He built Versailles and
1:58:43
all that. GDP in order to build his palace
1:58:47
and garland gardens. Yeah, the palace. I don't
1:58:50
know if people have—anybody that has opportunity
1:58:52
to go to France, go see those palaces. It is breathtaking,
1:58:56
and you think to yourself, you spent all of France's
1:58:59
money to build this shit for yourself. Oh, that's
1:59:02
stunning. And don't forget it's all empty now,
1:59:03
right? Because they were looted during the revolution,
1:59:05
so all the furniture was taken. But can you imagine
1:59:08
what it all looked like when it was completely
1:59:09
fully appointed? Yeah, theater, statues. The
1:59:13
gardens by itself is breathtaking. Yeah, true, true.
1:59:17
Yeah. And he spent all the money. Is asking where
1:59:22
I am. I'm right here. I'm just scrolling. I'm just
1:59:25
watching the comments, smiling, enjoying it. I'm
1:59:29
not weighing in a lot of this stuff because I'm
1:59:31
saving it for Friday. I believe I want to, but
1:59:35
Robby's preparing for his diff. Robby's preparing
1:59:37
for his theological defeat. You never know, right?
1:59:42
Whoops. You never know, because one thing
1:59:48
I will tell y'all is that Ted is an incredibly
1:59:53
smart guy, very well read, very well educated, and
1:59:57
more than that, the dude has a heart bigger than
2:00:00
the state of Montana. Yes, he does. And he
2:00:04
is one—he is one of my dearest, dearest friends,
2:00:07
and we disagree on a lot of things. And really
2:00:09
what it all comes down to is jurisdiction, authority,
2:00:14
and what does justice mean? To JT's point,
2:00:20
just as humanly speaking, there's no such thing.
2:00:23
It's just international law. It's a theory.
2:00:25
It exists till it doesn't. Yeah. From a biblical
2:00:29
standpoint, if you believe there's a higher power,
2:00:31
then justice and authority is derived from
2:00:34
that power. He delegates. It's a matter of delegations.
2:00:37
That's why when it comes to execution
2:00:39
by the state, it's not. And that's very problematic
2:00:42
because who says, well, I was hanging with God the other day and
2:00:48
he said that this speeding ticket should get
2:00:51
a $325 sentence. Come on. Well, that's
2:00:55
why you have to stay yourself approved, because
2:00:57
God has worked that way. He's not a respecter
2:00:59
of persons. And if God is ever audibly speaking
2:01:02
to you, then you have a couple of problems. Then
2:01:07
you're Nidal Hasan. Yeah, you're Nidal Hasan.
2:01:10
Well, the Bible also says that Satan appears
2:01:13
as an angel of light. And he will speak to you.
2:01:15
And a couple of people who are very famous prophets
2:01:18
both have the same exact thing. Both of them
2:01:21
founded other religions have been somewhat problematic.
2:01:24
So just because you hear a voice does not mean
2:01:29
it's the voice of God. And you've got to see
2:01:31
yourself approved. That the Bible was written
2:01:34
by a fake God. That the God that we worship, or
2:01:38
the God that people worship, is not the real God.
2:01:40
It's an imperfect God making imperfect creations
2:01:43
that it thought itself was God, but fucked up
2:01:46
and got it wrong. And that's the choice that
2:01:50
each and every single person has to make on their
2:01:53
own. That does bring up an interesting
2:01:57
point theologically, right? So the Bible, right,
2:02:00
which you believe in absolutely, Robby, is,
2:02:03
according to doctrine and dogma, written by
2:02:09
people, right? We can agree on that. But
2:02:11
it's divinely inspired, but it's not written
2:02:14
by God physically. The Ten Commandments
2:02:17
are theoretically written by God. Moses wasn't taking notes. The tablets
2:02:24
were handed to him. God wrote it, right? So that's
2:02:27
not divinely inspired. That's divinely written.
2:02:29
Divinely inspired, though, is there's
2:02:34
issues of interpretation, right? If
2:02:37
I get an idea for a cartoon and then what
2:02:41
ends up on the page is not going to be a perfect
2:02:43
representation of the idea that was in my brain.
2:02:46
Similarly, if God were to inspire me to draw
2:02:50
a cartoon, let's say, it's still not.
2:02:53
It goes through the very imperfect filter of
2:02:56
Ted Rall's brain, right? And so it's kind of.
2:03:00
So I guess you see where I'm going, Robby.
2:03:02
Can we say that the Bible is an imperfect
2:03:05
representation because it's written by human
2:03:08
beings? By the way, I'll give you a perfect example
2:03:11
of that. You do a remote viewing session. The
2:03:14
session is on Chernobyl. And you wrote down a
2:03:19
war. Meaning, the interpretation was the war.
2:03:23
The reality was Chernobyl. They're different
2:03:26
things, even though it's close. I guess,
2:03:29
is it that? Signal to noise is one of the issues.
2:03:33
Well, that's one of the reasons why when it comes
2:03:35
to Scripture, Scripture never stands alone. And
2:03:37
you should always compare Scripture with Scripture.
2:03:40
It's kind of what we did last Sunday, or
2:03:42
not last Sunday, last Friday. I went through
2:03:44
a lot of Scripture from multiple books of the
2:03:48
Bible, Old and New Testaments, to make my argument
2:03:51
about the modern state of Israel being—oh, Ted
2:03:55
just vanished. He's got that magic mouse. Yeah,
2:03:59
he always pops back. But whenever it comes to
2:04:02
Scripture, though, that is the case,
2:04:04
is that it can never stand alone. And the reason
2:04:07
for that is, is because to y'all's point, it
2:04:10
is very, very easy to go in and grab a hold of
2:04:17
something because of your personal bias and say,
2:04:19
this is how it's got to be. This is clearly writ.
2:04:25
Even if the vast majority of the principles in
2:04:29
the Bible say, no, this is wrong. For
2:04:32
example, whenever it comes to the death penalty,
2:04:35
a lot of people say that the death penalty originates
2:04:39
from the law of Moses. It actually predates the
2:04:40
law of Moses. And so that's where it comes from.
2:04:45
And the Bible is Jesus. It is both
2:04:49
God and man. Man is the instrument. Man is the
2:04:53
hand that held the quill. The Holy Spirit is
2:04:57
what inspires it. I don't know what you would
2:05:04
call it, but that's what it is. It is
2:05:06
inspiration by God himself. When you pointed
2:05:09
out that if God is talking to you, something
2:05:11
is wrong. Well, because what it is, is, for example,
2:05:15
if I—because earlier you did say that if God
2:05:19
is talking to you, something is wrong. There
2:05:21
are all sorts of things that appear in the eyes
2:05:22
of God that is not God. Here we have a book that's
2:05:27
supposedly written by God, or at the very least
2:05:31
inspired by God. It's because nowadays we don't
2:05:35
have prophets the way that we did in the Old
2:05:37
Testament. John the Baptist was the last prophet.
2:05:41
So time has changed. You're saying times have
2:05:43
changed. That's the only difference. Well, times
2:05:47
have changed. Times have changed. Also, the covenant
2:05:49
has changed, because really what the whole point
2:05:51
of the whole. Why do we have no prophets anymore?
2:05:53
Because Jesus was born and we don't need him
2:05:54
anymore. Jesus is the final prophet. Now we have
2:05:57
the revealed word. Jesus is the word. He is the
2:05:59
word of God. That actually makes sense.
2:06:03
And so that's why. And so that's one
2:06:06
of the biggest problems when it comes to Joseph
2:06:07
Smith of Mormonism. He says that God appeared
2:06:10
to him as an angel of light. Muhammad said the
2:06:13
exact same thing. God appeared to him as an angel
2:06:15
of light. Or David Koresh. And David Koresh is
2:06:19
another one. Jesus said, many false messiahs
2:06:22
will come in my name. This is how it is that
2:06:26
you're going to do them, and you're going to
2:06:29
know them by their fruits. If you are all about
2:06:33
rounding up harems and preganting underage girls,
2:06:37
or creating armies and sacking cities and engaging
2:06:39
in the slave trade, maybe you're probably not
2:06:42
the prophet of the God of peace. Okay. All right.
2:06:49
This obviously bears further discussion, and
2:06:51
that might come up on Friday. All right. And
2:06:54
to Blake's point, Jesus didn't write a single
2:06:56
word of the Bible. Correct. The only time that
2:06:58
Jesus ever wrote was when he wrote in the sand.
2:07:01
Whenever he asked the Pharisees, whoever has
2:07:04
no sin, you cast the first stone. He started
2:07:06
writing. I have no idea what he wrote. That's
2:07:07
the only reason we know that Jesus is literate.
2:07:09
It's because he wrote something now. We don't
2:07:12
know what he wrote. It wasn't important. In Aramaic,
2:07:14
no doubt. Aramaic or Greek, we don't know. All
2:07:19
right. Thanks, everyone. Appreciate you. We'll
2:07:22
be back tomorrow with the one-hour show, 9
2:07:25
to 10 a.m. Eastern Time with DeProgram with
2:07:28
Ted Rall, Jamarl Thomas, and producer Robby
2:07:30
West. We will be TMI show coming up tomorrow
2:07:35
at 10 a.m. Have a great day. Always a pleasure,
2:07:39
Jamarl. See you tomorrow. Absolutely. Have a
2:07:41
good one, guys. Be safe.