Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'In the Valley of Sin': Pastor speaks out, arrested, beaten!

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'In the Valley of Sin': Pastor speaks out, arrested, beaten! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: You know, we hear of scenarios like this in other
0:10
Speaker 1: countries like Russia or China or North Korea, where people
0:16
Speaker 1: are rounded up in the night and arrested, and they're
0:22
Speaker 1: never really sure about what they're being charged with, and
0:26
Speaker 1: they don't have a voice, they can't speak out, they
0:29
Speaker 1: can't fight back. Well, it's not just Russia and China
0:34
Speaker 1: and North Korea. It happened right here, not just in
0:39
Speaker 1: our beloved America. It happened in Wenatchee, the so called
0:45
Speaker 1: apple capital of the world, where there's nothing but apple
0:50
Speaker 1: orchards and green as far as the eye can see.
1:01
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you it pains me to tell the
1:04
Speaker 1: story because I've told so many juries that they should
1:10
Speaker 1: believe a child, because children don't have the skills a
1:17
Speaker 1: deception that adults have. It's much harder for them to
1:20
Speaker 1: lie and stick to a long, complicated story. Well, that
1:25
Speaker 1: much is true unless that statement was coerced forced. I
1:33
Speaker 1: am talking about the Valley of Sin, mothers, fathers, pastors, pastors,
1:43
Speaker 1: wives being herded up like cattle and thrown behind bars,
1:50
Speaker 1: many of them illiterate, couldn't read, didn't understand what was
1:56
Speaker 1: going on. Let me introduce to you an all star
2:02
Speaker 1: panel joining me today. First of all, Robbie and Connie Robertson,
2:08
Speaker 1: let me correct myself. Pastor Robertson and his wife Connie,
2:15
Speaker 1: who spoke out against what they saw happening, and how
2:19
Speaker 1: did they get paid back? They were thrown in jail
2:23
Speaker 1: and Pastor Robertson was beaten. Rebecca Osborne, the Robertson's daughter.
2:30
Speaker 1: Tom Grant Award winning journalist thirty plus years, former reporter
2:35
Speaker 1: k R em now Professor Journalism at a back Abraham
2:40
Speaker 1: Baldwin Agricultural College and co producer of In the Valley
2:45
Speaker 1: of Sin and many other documentaries at doctor Thomas Grant
2:48
Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Elizabeth Loft us with us. She's especially important.
2:54
Speaker 1: She's a distinguished professor psychological sciences and she is the
2:59
Speaker 1: author of the myth of Repressed Memory. Some of these
3:05
Speaker 1: children were put into treatment to regain their lost memories.
3:14
Speaker 1: There were no memories to regain. They were coerced to
3:18
Speaker 1: say their parents raped them. Shocking right here in our country.
3:24
Speaker 1: And Catherine Lyon, author of a witch Hunt, A true
3:28
Speaker 1: story of social hysteria and abused justice, former public defender
3:33
Speaker 1: right there in Pierce County, Washington, to all of you. Welcome.
3:37
Speaker 1: It's a very bitter pill for me to swallow to
3:41
Speaker 1: realize what happened within our justice system. First of all, guys,
3:47
Speaker 1: take a listen to Pastor Robertson. Plus, it's really weird.
3:51
Speaker 1: I guess what really started the whole ball roll? And
3:54
Speaker 1: then this thing was on a Thursday night prayer meeting
3:57
Speaker 1: that happened to be kneeling here at the altar, had
4:01
Speaker 1: been praying for all these people because it was really
4:04
Speaker 1: troubled me, especially about the Everts in this old Bible
4:09
Speaker 1: right here. You know, it was like this, and I
4:12
Speaker 1: just happened to kind of look over like this, and
4:15
Speaker 1: it was a passage in Psalms or Proverbs. I don't
4:17
Speaker 1: remember which one, but basically it said who is going
4:20
Speaker 1: to defend those who cannot speak for themselves? And I
4:23
Speaker 1: just looked at that and I'm going like, Wow, that's
4:28
Speaker 1: Harold and Idella, that's mister and missus Everts. Your words,
4:31
Speaker 1: Pastor Robertson really moved me. I never try in a
4:34
Speaker 1: single case without my Bible on the table, hoping for
4:38
Speaker 1: a divine intervention and praying that I always do the
4:43
Speaker 1: right thing. Pastor Welcome, Connie welcome, and to Rebecca Osborne,
4:50
Speaker 1: your daughter, welcome first to you, Pastor Robertson what happened.
4:56
Speaker 1: I can't believe this. I'm already crying. I I feel
5:01
Speaker 1: like crying. If that makes feel any better, good, thank you. Yeah,
5:05
Speaker 1: I'll be okay in a minute. No, camp, are you
5:07
Speaker 1: still a working pastor? Yes, ma'am. Maybe five years. The
5:11
Speaker 1: only time we weren't behind the pulpit was when we
5:13
Speaker 1: were in jail, when even in jail, I think it
5:16
Speaker 1: was a Nistro service that I preached on the telephone
5:20
Speaker 1: until they finally found out what was happening, and then
5:23
Speaker 1: they picked that away from even But yeah, that was
5:26
Speaker 1: the only time that Connie and I haven't been behind
5:28
Speaker 1: the pulpit. There's a Pentecostal church and guide House of
5:31
Speaker 1: Prayer in East Winnaci and it's been, like I said,
5:36
Speaker 1: thirty thirty five years. And I'm very difficult for the
5:41
Speaker 1: last few years because of the stigma still from the
5:43
Speaker 1: Winnaci sect. Oh well, you know, I gotta tell you,
5:46
Speaker 1: whenever I would be prosecuting and I look at somebody's
5:50
Speaker 1: rap sheet and I'd say dismissed, dismissed, dismissed, vaka, and
5:54
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're right. I didn't wouldn't really believe it.
5:59
Speaker 1: And the other day, Pastor I spoke to well many
6:05
Speaker 1: many of the then child victims of rape and molestation
6:10
Speaker 1: and the guilt and the self loathing and hatred they
6:17
Speaker 1: suffer because they blamed their mother and their father of
6:23
Speaker 1: raping and abusing them and it was all a lie,
6:25
Speaker 1: and mommy and daddy went to jail and they got
6:28
Speaker 1: to carry that around. I mean, the mommies and daddies
6:32
Speaker 1: were ultimately released, but you're right, you carry the stigma
6:37
Speaker 1: of being arrested and charged with, for peak's sake, child molestation,
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Speaker 1: the lowest of the low, and your children have to
6:45
Speaker 1: live with their forced statements that ended up putting you
6:50
Speaker 1: in jail. I mean, what a travesty. Okay, I don't
6:54
Speaker 1: want to hear me. I hear me all the time.
6:56
Speaker 1: I want to hear you. So you're at prayer service
7:00
Speaker 1: and it's a Thursday night. You see that phrase out
7:03
Speaker 1: of the Bible, and what did you do. I turned around,
7:08
Speaker 1: I stood up and I say season everybody, and everybody
7:10
Speaker 1: was on the kneel underneath brain. Some of the cues
7:13
Speaker 1: and some of the pulpits and some of the altar,
7:16
Speaker 1: and I told everybody, I said, I need to go down.
7:19
Speaker 1: There's a meeting tonight with a guy from from Spokane,
7:24
Speaker 1: the Vocal group who put it together. I said, I
7:26
Speaker 1: need to take all this material I put together, and
7:29
Speaker 1: unfortunately I may be causing trouble for everybody. We need
7:33
Speaker 1: him be arrested. But I'm going down to this meeting
7:35
Speaker 1: and we'll just see what happens. People need to know
7:39
Speaker 1: what I've been finding out. Nobody will listen, I said,
7:42
Speaker 1: I tried everything and nobody will listen. And that was it.
7:45
Speaker 1: Went down to the meeting and sat there and listened
7:48
Speaker 1: to everybody, and mister Grant was sitting the way up
7:50
Speaker 1: in front with his camera guy. And now this was
7:53
Speaker 1: a town hall meeting. Oh it wasn't. There was a
7:57
Speaker 1: town hall meeting that was What wasn't This was a pud.
7:59
Speaker 1: This was a meeting just called by a number of
8:02
Speaker 1: just citizens from Wenachi, East Wenachi actually at the PD
8:07
Speaker 1: Auditorium in East Wenachi. The big town meeting was in Wenachi.
8:11
Speaker 1: So when you go there, what led you to go there?
8:14
Speaker 1: Why did you feel like you had to take up
8:18
Speaker 1: for mister and missus Everett. Well, at that time it
8:21
Speaker 1: was kim Albe. It was Donna Rodriguez's daughter who had
8:25
Speaker 1: made the recantation. They had forced her. And as you
8:27
Speaker 1: were telling them about these kids in the stigma, I
8:31
Speaker 1: gotta tell you what happened in Wenachi. All these kids.
8:34
Speaker 1: The reason they said what they said, they weren't so
8:37
Speaker 1: much cohersting to saying these things to put the people
8:40
Speaker 1: in prison. They were cohersting to saying these things to
8:43
Speaker 1: keep their parents out of prison. They were told if
8:46
Speaker 1: they would say these things, we'll talk to your parents,
8:49
Speaker 1: they'll get treatment or whatever, and we will reunite you.
8:52
Speaker 1: You'll be back home. And so that was a reason
8:54
Speaker 1: that all of this started, was because the kids, oh,
8:57
Speaker 1: well okay, and they said, well, yeah, then this did happen.
9:00
Speaker 1: And that was that. That's what started this whole thing.
9:03
Speaker 1: Did you know the Everett Harold and Idella did I
9:07
Speaker 1: know him for years? Richard the oldest son. I tried
9:10
Speaker 1: to adopt him, even he was like my own little boy.
9:14
Speaker 1: And every day Harold and Idella can't read or write,
9:18
Speaker 1: I was there every day at their house. I would
9:21
Speaker 1: pick up Richard from school on Saturday mornings. I would
9:23
Speaker 1: go over. He was the youngest kid, probably in with
9:26
Speaker 1: Nancy too, to write or writing lawn more around my
9:29
Speaker 1: church as he would help me. Every day Sunday he
9:32
Speaker 1: was there. I literally at one time said that I
9:35
Speaker 1: was in the house probably every day, and I think
9:38
Speaker 1: it pretty close and I knew everything that was going on.
9:42
Speaker 1: The house was never locked. There were times I'd take
9:44
Speaker 1: Richard home, maybe at one in the morning, two in
9:47
Speaker 1: the morning, three in the morning, I mean late at night,
9:50
Speaker 1: sometimes in and out during the day. I was there
9:53
Speaker 1: every day. There was never anything in that house. Harold
9:56
Speaker 1: and Idella loved their kids. Very poor people. Boy, let
10:00
Speaker 1: me tell you. They to carry their children. You know what.
10:03
Speaker 1: It reminds me so much of home my mother and thought, well,
10:07
Speaker 1: we were poor, There's really no other way to put it.
10:09
Speaker 1: But I never knew that. As a child. We were
10:12
Speaker 1: so happy and loved. Connie Robertson, Pastor Robertson's wife, also
10:18
Speaker 1: with us. Connie, do you remember when you're a husband.
10:23
Speaker 1: Pastor Robertson spoke out against these prosecutions and said, there's
10:28
Speaker 1: no way the Everetts molested their children. Oh yes, And
10:33
Speaker 1: when he decided to go to that meeting. I thought,
10:36
Speaker 1: oh man, we're going to be targeted. I really did,
10:41
Speaker 1: you know what? It reminds me so much of Daniel
10:43
Speaker 1: going in the lions Den when you know you are
10:47
Speaker 1: aheaded for trouble, but you go anyway crimes to stories
11:00
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Do you remember, guys, after Pastor Robertson
11:06
Speaker 1: goes to the meeting and says what he has to
11:09
Speaker 1: say about how the Everetts, Harold and Idella would never
11:16
Speaker 1: have molested their children, do you remember what happened next? Connie? Well,
11:22
Speaker 1: I wasn't at the meeting. I stayed at the prayer
11:25
Speaker 1: meeting at the church with the people that were there.
11:29
Speaker 1: But when he told me what went on, I was
11:32
Speaker 1: even more sure that we were next. It was like
11:37
Speaker 1: guilt by association situation. So yeah, I was shattered. I
11:44
Speaker 1: was shaking. Robbie, what happed? Pastor Robbie? What happened after
11:49
Speaker 1: you spoke out at that meeting? Nancy called me, Robbie
11:53
Speaker 1: from now and don't worry about the pastor part. Tom,
11:56
Speaker 1: I can do no kid, do you, preacher? But okay, okay,
12:00
Speaker 1: I'll preciate Anyways, Tom Grant, I got down there with
12:04
Speaker 1: my file sat in the back, and I noticed when
12:07
Speaker 1: I walked in some when Ascie cops. I knew two
12:09
Speaker 1: of them, and I just thought, what are these guys
12:14
Speaker 1: doing here? And then I looked around and I saw
12:16
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people that I knew and that
12:20
Speaker 1: had been talking about this stuff, mister Robert Kincaid and
12:25
Speaker 1: I think maybe Jean Wait. Anyway, there was a number
12:27
Speaker 1: of people from when Nancy that I knew had been
12:32
Speaker 1: going forward with this. And finally at the end, after
12:36
Speaker 1: they talked about all of this stuff, I think it
12:38
Speaker 1: was mister Grant or maybe mister Kincay, I don't remember
12:41
Speaker 1: who it was, said something about me having this file,
12:44
Speaker 1: and you know, was I there, and I tried to
12:46
Speaker 1: get up to the front, and as I was walking
12:49
Speaker 1: up to the front, Mike McNaughty calling mad Dog. And
12:54
Speaker 1: I still believe, despite all this stuff against Bob Perez,
12:58
Speaker 1: I'm the one. I believe that Mike mcnah is the
13:00
Speaker 1: one that started this whole thing with the Kimball family,
13:04
Speaker 1: with Michelle and the kids, not Bob Herres. And I
13:08
Speaker 1: think he was the one that led Bob the wrong way,
13:10
Speaker 1: and Mike tried to get the file from him, and
13:12
Speaker 1: John cruising. As they stopped me going up there, I'm
13:16
Speaker 1: more or less one of them said, hey, Mike, the
13:19
Speaker 1: camera's on it, and mister Grant's cameraman had the camera
13:24
Speaker 1: focused on him, and as they turned around, I took
13:26
Speaker 1: my elbows and shoved my weight through both of them,
13:28
Speaker 1: almost knocked mister McNaughty over and I went up to
13:31
Speaker 1: the front. Naturally, they didn't follow me up there, but
13:34
Speaker 1: I went up and I remember mister Grant introduced myself
13:37
Speaker 1: and he was sitting in the very front row. I
13:41
Speaker 1: can remember this so clear. Right now, I could paint
13:43
Speaker 1: a picture for I as an artist, and I said,
13:46
Speaker 1: you need to see this stuff, and I said, especially
13:49
Speaker 1: this one. And it was a file that had been
13:51
Speaker 1: slipped under the door of my church, and the one
13:54
Speaker 1: that I showed him I think was from maybe Cindy Andrews,
13:57
Speaker 1: I don't remember from who, but it said more or less,
14:01
Speaker 1: as of this time, we've not been able to obtain
14:03
Speaker 1: any discorders from these children, will continue to work towards this,
14:08
Speaker 1: you know, to assist you in the prosecution of their parents.
14:12
Speaker 1: And this was from a counselor. This is a counselor's file. Okay,
14:16
Speaker 1: hold on, let me understand what you're saying, preacher. You're
14:19
Speaker 1: saying that somebody shoved this these documents at your door
14:24
Speaker 1: and you looked at them. And it's said, have not
14:27
Speaker 1: been able to what obtain enough evidence, but will continue working.
14:31
Speaker 1: Oh they don't say evidence that we have not obtaining
14:33
Speaker 1: any disclosures from these any of these children as to
14:37
Speaker 1: any abuse. I understand, yeah, not just evidence. It was
14:40
Speaker 1: discoorsing and others. A kid weren't saying anything. And anyway,
14:46
Speaker 1: I actually had it outlined in highlighted and yellow, and
14:50
Speaker 1: I remember, and I don't know if Tom remembers this
14:53
Speaker 1: that I will never I told this story so many
14:56
Speaker 1: times in the last twenty five years. Tom sat in
14:59
Speaker 1: the he was on the left, he was on the
15:02
Speaker 1: chair in the front. His cameraman had the camera over
15:06
Speaker 1: tom shoulder shooting this document that Tom was reading. And
15:10
Speaker 1: Tom started reading through it, and I remember him stopping
15:12
Speaker 1: and looking at it, and he turned around. He looked
15:15
Speaker 1: at me, and I remember this period in his eyes.
15:19
Speaker 1: He looked at me and he said, my god, these
15:23
Speaker 1: people are innocent or something that's real close to that,
15:28
Speaker 1: and actually pretty chure. Joining me right now is Tom Grant,
15:33
Speaker 1: an award winning journalist who has co executive produced in
15:37
Speaker 1: the Valley of Sin, and asked my wife what he
15:39
Speaker 1: put what he calls Tom grantow, I tried never to
15:44
Speaker 1: do what a pastor tells me not to do. Knowingly,
15:48
Speaker 1: Tom Grant, do you remember that night? I remember that night.
15:52
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I shad any tears, but you know,
15:57
Speaker 1: I don't want to be exposed. And as an old softie,
15:59
Speaker 1: I guess that night was a gathering of people who
16:03
Speaker 1: were all interested in these cases. And I had been
16:06
Speaker 1: done there and done interviews earlier that day with people
16:10
Speaker 1: who were already casting some doubts about about the case.
16:15
Speaker 1: And UH, and that night Pastor Robbie and other people
16:20
Speaker 1: stood up and said that that the police had been
16:26
Speaker 1: had failed to examine this closely and clearly, and that
16:30
Speaker 1: there were real problems with the investigation, and of course
16:33
Speaker 1: the police who were there refused to answer any questions
16:36
Speaker 1: about that, which was one of the things that I
16:38
Speaker 1: discovered as time went on, and UH, and Pastor Robbie
16:42
Speaker 1: showed me some documents, and I loved documents, and many
16:45
Speaker 1: of these documents came from Child Protective Services showing them
16:52
Speaker 1: how they were treating the children, what was happening the children,
16:56
Speaker 1: because they had to make reports every three months when
16:58
Speaker 1: the kid went into two custody, and these these reports
17:02
Speaker 1: would indicate that especially the you know, the most credible
17:09
Speaker 1: child in the family, Richard was saying that none of
17:11
Speaker 1: this ever happened, and that other kids were not making
17:14
Speaker 1: you know, incredible disclosures either, and sou so to me
17:21
Speaker 1: it was it was raising questions from the very beginning
17:24
Speaker 1: about just what kind of investigation was going on. Well,
17:27
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, there became there came a
17:31
Speaker 1: moment where not only was it kept secret that the
17:35
Speaker 1: children were not ratting out their parents, documents played a
17:41
Speaker 1: major role in discovering the truth. Take a listen to this.
17:46
Speaker 1: The documents that Pastor Robbie got, like initial reports, but
17:51
Speaker 1: other investigating materials that would have been disclosed to the
17:55
Speaker 1: attorneys of these of these people who were accused, and
17:58
Speaker 1: in particular the most the most interesting documents were the
18:01
Speaker 1: ones that came from child protective Services Because anytime a
18:05
Speaker 1: child is taken away from a parent, child protective Services
18:08
Speaker 1: has to do regular reports, and those regular reports are
18:13
Speaker 1: available to the parents. Crime stories with Nancy Grace guys,
18:25
Speaker 1: we are telling you the story of Actually the title
18:30
Speaker 1: says it best. In the Valley of Sin, this most
18:34
Speaker 1: beautiful rural landscape, a place you had moved to keep
18:38
Speaker 1: your children safe. One Natchee, Washington, the Apple capital of
18:42
Speaker 1: the world. A massive child molestation, trafficking and child rape scheme,
18:49
Speaker 1: a prosecution underway where you have about forty adults charged
18:56
Speaker 1: with nearly thirty thousand offenses of child sex molestation involving
19:01
Speaker 1: sixty children. It all has turned out to be a lie.
19:06
Speaker 1: This after parents put in jail, children torn away from
19:10
Speaker 1: their parents, moms and dads literally dragged away from the
19:14
Speaker 1: supper table at night to go to jail. And why well,
19:19
Speaker 1: after Pastor Robbie Robertson speaks up, well you know what happens.
19:26
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Pastor Robbie had been speaking
19:29
Speaker 1: up for a long time, and whenever Pastor Robbie spoke up,
19:35
Speaker 1: notes would be made, Conversations would be had that well,
19:39
Speaker 1: Pastor Robbie must have a reason for doing this, and
19:43
Speaker 1: obviously some bad reason, like he's involved with something, and
19:48
Speaker 1: they began to target him. Pastor Robbie, do you remember
19:53
Speaker 1: when you were arrested only too well, only too well,
19:58
Speaker 1: it's March twenty eighth. It was just a couple of
20:02
Speaker 1: days after that meeting with Tom Grant actually, and I'll
20:06
Speaker 1: never forget it that it was they aired that the
20:12
Speaker 1: documents that I showed Tom. They aired it that night
20:16
Speaker 1: on Crampton News. It was pretty interesting and at that
20:20
Speaker 1: point I began to be pretty scared. On Monday, I
20:22
Speaker 1: remember I was doing pickups and stuff down to Top
20:27
Speaker 1: Foods and the owners of Top Foods, the managers down
20:30
Speaker 1: to the big grocery chain, they had bought a huge
20:34
Speaker 1: reefer truck for us for our food bank. We were
20:36
Speaker 1: hauling food up to a water golf. Anyway, it was
20:40
Speaker 1: here are some cops pulled in and they just pulled
20:43
Speaker 1: in and Rebecca and I were unloading food and they
20:47
Speaker 1: go through and I looked and they just kind of
20:49
Speaker 1: looked and drove by, and that was it. And I thought, well,
20:52
Speaker 1: that's weird. That was on Monday, Tuesday morning. The next
20:56
Speaker 1: morning here it was food and hundreds of people. And
21:03
Speaker 1: that night on Monday night a national television. It was
21:08
Speaker 1: really weird. I think it was Dan rather whatever the
21:12
Speaker 1: CBS network was, And here just come up about when
21:16
Speaker 1: Anti and the document and hear that very same one
21:19
Speaker 1: that I had given to Tom. They showed the documents,
21:22
Speaker 1: they showed the highlighting on it and everything, and this
21:25
Speaker 1: was the document about no you know, no disclosures from
21:29
Speaker 1: the kid. And I'm going like, oh man, this is dangerous.
21:33
Speaker 1: What happened here? They came over the fences, cops all over,
21:38
Speaker 1: state patrol, Sheriff's department, one anti police Department, East, one
21:43
Speaker 1: anti police department. I mean, there was like somewhere around
21:46
Speaker 1: eight to ten cars from what I can remember, they
21:48
Speaker 1: were coming over the fence in the back of the chair,
21:50
Speaker 1: people all over the place. Next thing I know, here
21:54
Speaker 1: they are coming up and it was healthy was his name.
22:00
Speaker 1: To the Douglas County Sheriff's Department said mister Roberson, you're
22:04
Speaker 1: under arrest and for child molestation or child rape. And
22:08
Speaker 1: they handcuffed me, literally slammed me on the ground. They
22:11
Speaker 1: drugged me across the parking a lot basically after I
22:13
Speaker 1: got up and put me in the car. And as
22:16
Speaker 1: I was being put in the car, just as they
22:18
Speaker 1: went by. Unfortunately or fortunately here, Rebecca had been stayed
22:23
Speaker 1: overnight with our best friends and they pulled up and
22:25
Speaker 1: I kind of mouthed the mark, get her out of her,
22:28
Speaker 1: get her out of here. And anyway, all three of
22:32
Speaker 1: his two girls and Rebecca were in the back, all
22:35
Speaker 1: dressed in the same coat. I walked by, they slammed
22:37
Speaker 1: me in the car and that was it. To your wife, Connie, Connie,
22:43
Speaker 1: you were actually arrested where you were taking classes at college?
22:49
Speaker 1: What happened? Well, I was at the Winnache Valley College
22:52
Speaker 1: taking a course on home schooling because I wanted to
22:56
Speaker 1: teach my daughter at home. Well, I was sitting in
22:59
Speaker 1: the class room Robin Wag and another man. The only
23:02
Speaker 1: reason why I know it was Robin Wag because I
23:05
Speaker 1: learned out later who he was. Anyway, they came in
23:09
Speaker 1: and they had everyone leave the room and they looked
23:13
Speaker 1: at me, and I said, what's going on? And they said, well,
23:15
Speaker 1: you're under arrest for so many counts of child abuse.
23:19
Speaker 1: And I said what. So they handcuffed me in the
23:25
Speaker 1: back and marched me down the hallway and right up
23:28
Speaker 1: the front where the registration was going on for the
23:31
Speaker 1: spring quarter. Lots and lots of people there, through the
23:36
Speaker 1: front doors and into the squad car, which is almost
23:40
Speaker 1: back behind the school building. They couldn't have taken me
23:44
Speaker 1: out the back, but they took me out the front,
23:47
Speaker 1: and when I got in the cup car, I realized
23:51
Speaker 1: that trouble was on the brew. Let me ask you,
23:55
Speaker 1: mister Roberson. Ye're now charged at that point with child molestation.
24:02
Speaker 1: Who was supposedly the child you molested? Oh? Many didn't know.
24:06
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I had no idea, they didn't.
24:10
Speaker 1: But now do you know who the children were that
24:13
Speaker 1: you allegedly molested? Yeah, even our own daughter, not only
24:17
Speaker 1: the Everitt girls, Evert kids. Does that include Rebecca? And
24:22
Speaker 1: joining me right now is Rebecca Osborne, the Robertson's daughter. Rebecca.
24:28
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, Thank you for having me. Rebecca,
24:33
Speaker 1: you pulled up in a car and saw your dad arrested. Yes,
24:37
Speaker 1: madam gys me, I remember it clear as day what happened. Oh,
24:47
Speaker 1: in that particular instant, I remember, like you said, I
24:51
Speaker 1: had stayed the night with some family friends because he
24:54
Speaker 1: had two girls that were right around the same age
24:56
Speaker 1: as me. Um, we played together all the time, So
25:00
Speaker 1: I remember that we had all just gotten coats just
25:03
Speaker 1: a couple months prior to this, that were literally all
25:06
Speaker 1: exactly the same because we all wanted to look like sisters,
25:09
Speaker 1: you know, And so we all had these coats that
25:11
Speaker 1: were exactly the same, just different sizes for all three
25:14
Speaker 1: of us girls. And we had pulled in because we
25:17
Speaker 1: were supposed to meet my dad there for food bank
25:19
Speaker 1: that morning. And I remember it was like almost right
25:24
Speaker 1: as we got there, looking out the back window, and
25:27
Speaker 1: there my dad was being thrown on the ground and
25:30
Speaker 1: handcuffed by all the priests and it was just a
25:33
Speaker 1: mad house. Everybody was just you know, confused of what
25:36
Speaker 1: was going on. And Marv, my dad's friend, was like,
25:40
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, what do we do? And you know,
25:42
Speaker 1: I do remember my dad saying something quietly but tomorrow
25:46
Speaker 1: he was like, get her out of here. And so
25:49
Speaker 1: Marv just said okay, you know, didn't even say anything,
25:53
Speaker 1: just kept going. Pulled out the parking lot. One of
25:56
Speaker 1: the cops stopped him and said, what are you doing here?
26:00
Speaker 1: And he said, we're just here for food bank. It's Tuesday,
26:04
Speaker 1: but looks like there's a bunch of stuff going on.
26:06
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm just going to take my girls
26:08
Speaker 1: back home. We'll come back another day. And he said, well,
26:11
Speaker 1: who's back here? He said, my girls, And they said
26:14
Speaker 1: all right, we'll get out of here. And he took
26:16
Speaker 1: off and that was the first time the police saw me,
26:20
Speaker 1: and they didn't even realize that I was right in
26:22
Speaker 1: front of him. Only by the grace of God, Rebecca,
26:24
Speaker 1: were you ever questioned, Were you ever questioned as to
26:28
Speaker 1: whether your mother and father sex molested you? Oh? Absolutely,
26:31
Speaker 1: you know. I was in hiding for a few weeks
26:34
Speaker 1: before they finally found me and took me into custody,
26:38
Speaker 1: and with your grandma. Yes, yep, I was with my
26:42
Speaker 1: grandma when they finally found me. Guys, hold on just
26:44
Speaker 1: one moment. We keep referring to Pastor Robertson as being arrested.
26:50
Speaker 1: He wasn't just arrested. They kept calling me all kinds
26:54
Speaker 1: of dirty names and you child molester, and you rapist
26:57
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. And when they bent me over
26:59
Speaker 1: to to strip searched me and check the cavities and
27:03
Speaker 1: all for contraman, I was bending over and he took
27:08
Speaker 1: his foot and he kicked me in the back and
27:11
Speaker 1: smashed my head into the cement walk walls and literally
27:16
Speaker 1: almost knocked me out. And I hit the ground and
27:19
Speaker 1: he said, stand up, you so obia crime Stories with
27:32
Speaker 1: Nancy grace. Guys, we were talking about a witch hunt
27:38
Speaker 1: and Winnatchi, the so called apple capital of the world,
27:43
Speaker 1: where you moved to keep your children safe. You were
27:46
Speaker 1: hearing Rebecca Osborne, who was taken away from her father,
27:50
Speaker 1: Pastor Robertson, and his wife Connie her mother and questioned
27:56
Speaker 1: repeatedly as to whether her parents had sex male dust
28:00
Speaker 1: at her. She gets taken to her grandparents, to her
28:06
Speaker 1: grandmother's away from her parents. Can you imagine being thrown
28:11
Speaker 1: in jail on false charges and being torn away from
28:15
Speaker 1: your children. Take a listen to this. And then I
28:19
Speaker 1: remember being at my grandma's house for a while, and
28:22
Speaker 1: I remember every night when she took me in for bed.
28:24
Speaker 1: You know, she'd be like, just remembered and pray to
28:26
Speaker 1: God and his angels will be all around you. That
28:30
Speaker 1: she always told me that every night, just pray to
28:33
Speaker 1: God and his angels will be all around you. Sorry, okay,
28:54
Speaker 1: I remember a cop knocked on a door and we're
28:57
Speaker 1: looking for Rebecca and we know she's here. You've got
29:00
Speaker 1: to give her up. It is clastic, she said to me, Avis,
29:07
Speaker 1: just pray to God's angel's whole watch over you. So
29:11
Speaker 1: at first, Rebecca while your mother and father are thrown
29:14
Speaker 1: into jail for chamelestation, you go to your grandma's until
29:20
Speaker 1: you're taken away from her. Where did you end up?
29:24
Speaker 1: I ended up in a police station or CPS office.
29:29
Speaker 1: I honestly can't remember which one it was. I just
29:31
Speaker 1: remember cubicles and stuffed animals. I think it was honestly
29:35
Speaker 1: Perez's office because Bob Perez was there and CPS worker
29:40
Speaker 1: was there, and the brain question. Yeah, yeah, the brainwashing
29:46
Speaker 1: instantly started. It wasn't question. When you say brainwashing, what
29:50
Speaker 1: do you mean? What were you told or asked? I
29:54
Speaker 1: was never asked anything. I was told everything. Being four
29:58
Speaker 1: years old, I think that they just thought that they'd
30:01
Speaker 1: get me to parrot everything that they wanted to say.
30:03
Speaker 1: So it was we know your parents molested you. We
30:07
Speaker 1: know that you had molestation go on at their church,
30:11
Speaker 1: we know that all these other children were involved, and
30:14
Speaker 1: we know that you've seen it and you just are
30:17
Speaker 1: scared to say it. But it's okay. You can tell
30:20
Speaker 1: everybody what's going on and then you'll hopefully get to
30:23
Speaker 1: see your parents again. Was you know, always the carrot
30:26
Speaker 1: that they'd dangle, you know, just say these things and
30:29
Speaker 1: you know, we'll get you back to your parents. But
30:31
Speaker 1: it was never asked. It was always told. We were
30:35
Speaker 1: literally told exactly what to say. Did you say, Rebecca,
30:39
Speaker 1: you were four years old? Yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am, I
30:43
Speaker 1: was four years old. I believe my children would say
30:48
Speaker 1: anything to get back to their mother and father. I
30:53
Speaker 1: really believe that much less four years old. Yeah, and
30:57
Speaker 1: what did they ultimately have you say? Ultimately it was
31:03
Speaker 1: alleged child abuse and molestation, and that things were happening
31:07
Speaker 1: in the church. I know that it was just the
31:10
Speaker 1: grace of God because I knew very clearly, even though
31:13
Speaker 1: I was only four, I knew I was in an
31:16
Speaker 1: unsafe situation. I knew that if I didn't tell these
31:20
Speaker 1: people what they wanted to say, that I was never
31:22
Speaker 1: going to see my parents. But I also knew that
31:24
Speaker 1: if I told a lie, I was never going to
31:26
Speaker 1: see my parents again. So it's kind of a catch
31:28
Speaker 1: twenty two and you know, definitely a god thing that
31:31
Speaker 1: I realized that at four years old. But every time
31:34
Speaker 1: I went in for one of these sessions, I would
31:37
Speaker 1: just kind of agree with them, be like, yep, okay,
31:40
Speaker 1: let me now go to distinguished Professor doctor Elizabeth Loftus,
31:45
Speaker 1: author of the Myth of Repressed Memory. Doctor Loftus, thank
31:50
Speaker 1: you for being with us. What do you make of
31:54
Speaker 1: so many efforts to make these children remember being raped?
31:59
Speaker 1: That what was going on not only with the investigators
32:04
Speaker 1: but also with the so called therapists that we're trying
32:08
Speaker 1: to extract these disposures. They were not giving the kids breaks.
32:14
Speaker 1: They were not they were not taking no for an answer.
32:16
Speaker 1: They were telling them what happened and insisting on what
32:21
Speaker 1: happened before there'd been any mention out of the mouth
32:26
Speaker 1: of the And then you do this with a four
32:28
Speaker 1: year old, they are they are even more suggestible than
32:32
Speaker 1: the older children. So you know, it's a it's a
32:37
Speaker 1: recipe for disaster, you know, doctor Loftus. In all the
32:42
Speaker 1: molestation cases I ever took to trial, I always asked
32:48
Speaker 1: an open ended question, or even have a child draw
32:51
Speaker 1: to me, draw picture to me for me what happened,
32:55
Speaker 1: because I wanted to hear it in their words, not
32:59
Speaker 1: my words. And I learned a lot by listening. Rebecca,
33:05
Speaker 1: how many times do you think you said no, this
33:09
Speaker 1: didn't happen every single time, every single time, And it
33:13
Speaker 1: wasn't just it was multiple people. I mean, I had
33:16
Speaker 1: moments where it was Bob Perez, the chief of police
33:19
Speaker 1: at the time. I remember being CPS workers. I remember
33:22
Speaker 1: it being my foster parents when they finally put me
33:25
Speaker 1: into foster care after they put me in custody, and
33:28
Speaker 1: it was a daily thing. If it wasn't one of
33:30
Speaker 1: the persons, it was one of the other persons, and
33:33
Speaker 1: I was adamant. I was like, no, it didn't happen.
33:35
Speaker 1: But I will say that after an hour, two hours
33:38
Speaker 1: of you know, these brainwashing sessions, I'd finally just be like, yep,
33:42
Speaker 1: m okay, yep, whatever you say, just to kind of
33:45
Speaker 1: get out of that situation. But ultimately, as you'll find out,
33:49
Speaker 1: when it boiled down to me being really apt in
33:53
Speaker 1: the courtroom, I flat out said no, and I'm not
33:57
Speaker 1: gonna lie because I knew the big question in so
34:01
Speaker 1: many people's minds is who is behind this. Take a listen.
34:05
Speaker 1: He causes problems by crossing arms, puffing up his chest.
34:09
Speaker 1: Obviously a reaction is let's get it on. Likes having
34:13
Speaker 1: power over people. He appears to pick out people and
34:16
Speaker 1: target them. Has the idea that people always have to
34:21
Speaker 1: do what he tells them. All of the time, I'd
34:25
Speaker 1: forgotten these is like wound up? Why are ready to spring?
34:30
Speaker 1: His performance evaluation of a person who I wouldn't trust
34:36
Speaker 1: in a position of such extreme power over people, power
34:41
Speaker 1: and arrogance. Joining me now, Catherine Lawing, an author of
34:45
Speaker 1: witch Hunt, a true story of social hysteria and abused justice,
34:49
Speaker 1: the former public defender there and Pierce County, Washington. Catherine,
34:54
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Who was Perez? Detective
34:58
Speaker 1: Perez and what motivated him and others that would not
35:03
Speaker 1: stand up for what was right? Why? Well, first of all,
35:08
Speaker 1: what you heard, what he was expressed was of the
35:11
Speaker 1: performance evaluations he had, and that gave you a good
35:14
Speaker 1: indication of who he was. He was actually volunteered with
35:19
Speaker 1: the police for a while. He had a former incident
35:22
Speaker 1: with his own child where he'd spent time in jail
35:26
Speaker 1: over stealing a cigarette. Writer. I think he spent forty
35:30
Speaker 1: five days or thereabouts in custody because of what was
35:34
Speaker 1: a minor incident, And so when it came to children,
35:39
Speaker 1: he had a very definite view of using his authority
35:42
Speaker 1: to get what he wanted. He had minimal training, he
35:45
Speaker 1: didn't have any training at all. When he's rotated into
35:48
Speaker 1: the position, he rotated into the position, became a detective
35:52
Speaker 1: while he was in the position, and then at some
35:53
Speaker 1: point was going to rotate out that What do you
35:55
Speaker 1: think was the motivation to coerce children into line? Well,
35:59
Speaker 1: I don't doubt that he has the concern about children,
36:02
Speaker 1: but he also had a lot of bias about this,
36:06
Speaker 1: the people that were limited in intelligence and money and
36:11
Speaker 1: so on in the community, and it started some theories
36:14
Speaker 1: he had the power to do it. He said, I'm
36:16
Speaker 1: no better than any other policeman. I I just took
36:20
Speaker 1: the next step, and his next step was purely coercive.
36:23
Speaker 1: Did you try and speak up? Did you try and
36:27
Speaker 1: speak up? Catherine? Yeah, what I tried to do I
36:31
Speaker 1: put together an investigative report, which ended up being about
36:33
Speaker 1: two hundred pages. I didn't go to meetings and say
36:37
Speaker 1: this was wrong, But what I did was document things.
36:40
Speaker 1: I started out by reviewing all the records going back
36:44
Speaker 1: years with some of the kids, especially the child who
36:48
Speaker 1: was placed at his foster home. Katherine Lyon is the
36:51
Speaker 1: author of a witch Hunt, A true story of social
36:53
Speaker 1: hysteria and abused justice. A former public defender there in
36:58
Speaker 1: Pierce County, Washington, and let me ask you, Robbie and Connie,
37:05
Speaker 1: how long were you in jail? Well, it was like
37:10
Speaker 1: it was like it was like, I think around four
37:12
Speaker 1: and a half month. Let me go to Rebecca Osborne,
37:15
Speaker 1: your daughter, Rebecca, how has it affected your life being
37:21
Speaker 1: taken away from your mother and your father, even being
37:25
Speaker 1: part of the investigation against them, Being pulled away from
37:30
Speaker 1: your grandmother and put in foster care. I was very
37:34
Speaker 1: traumatizing in the moment. I do have to always just
37:39
Speaker 1: preach I had this hedge of protection. I always said
37:45
Speaker 1: that I can feel my parents praying for my protections
37:51
Speaker 1: because although all of this stuff was going on, I
37:59
Speaker 1: still felt say to Elizabeth Loftus, doctor Loftus, I've spoken
38:04
Speaker 1: with then children now adult victims that bear the guilt
38:12
Speaker 1: of having put their parents behind bars because of forced statements,
38:19
Speaker 1: allegations of rape and molestation. I really don't know how
38:25
Speaker 1: you can ever get past that self loathing of doing
38:29
Speaker 1: that to your parents. Well, it's interesting, It's it's so
38:32
Speaker 1: many years his wife were acquitted eventually, so many years
38:39
Speaker 1: and lots of litigation that followed. So many years since
38:43
Speaker 1: they've been free, and you can still feel the pain
38:47
Speaker 1: in Rebecca just it may never go away. For her,
38:52
Speaker 1: I don't know that it will ever go away. To
38:55
Speaker 1: Tom Grant, it's really hard for me to take in
38:59
Speaker 1: that even when these children try to recant and say
39:02
Speaker 1: this didn't happen, no one would listen. And that's one
39:06
Speaker 1: of the huge problems of this case is that there
39:08
Speaker 1: was only one answer that the investigators would accept, and
39:12
Speaker 1: that was the answer that they yes, the children had
39:16
Speaker 1: been abused, and yes they were they were hurting, and
39:21
Speaker 1: as you've seen in other cases, that they should feel
39:23
Speaker 1: good when their parents go to jail. And that's that
39:27
Speaker 1: is to me, is so disturbing. It must create such
39:29
Speaker 1: a huge cognitive dissonance and children that I don't know
39:33
Speaker 1: how they can deal with it. And I see the
39:35
Speaker 1: trauma existing years later, Years and years later, Tom guys
39:41
Speaker 1: Pastor Robertson had permanent hearing damage because of the beating
39:49
Speaker 1: he took behind bars. I want to tell you about
39:53
Speaker 1: the Robertson Recovery PayPal to help them, to donate to
40:00
Speaker 1: help this family after all they have been through. As
40:06
Speaker 1: we go forward, we are looking in depth into what
40:12
Speaker 1: happened to the families there in Wenatchee. The families that
40:18
Speaker 1: are sent to jail that are torn away from their children.
40:23
Speaker 1: We're following each and every one of them. Next, a
40:29
Speaker 1: shocking twist in the Valley of Sin. I'm Nancy Grace
40:36
Speaker 1: Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,