Latest / Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas / Are Adult Friendships Falling Apart? Priyanka Paul on Connection & Loneliness

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Are Adult Friendships Falling Apart? Priyanka Paul on Connection & Loneliness · Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: It's funny, right, we have lots of follow us.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Most people think we have whoever should we so choose,
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: but the fact is we're mainly alone.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that people can't hurt each other and
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: people can't be bad friends, because that's when human We
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: can just like that, that like steadfastness in being like,
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: I am not going and we will deal with this.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I think what keeps me going is that you have
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: not met all the people who will love you and
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: be friends with you in this world. And that is
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: true every month, every new year. Is you know you
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: can meet someone you never know.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, hello and welcome to Love Matters. I'm Lisa Mangeldas,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: and lately I've been thinking have we gotten really really
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: bad at being good friends? And to unpact this with me,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I have Priyanka Paul, who's an illustrator think Troublemaker, my
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: favorite feminist. She's just an overall incredible human being and
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: has thoughts on friendship.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: But I'm really excited to unpack with you. Thanks for
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: being on the show.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Liza. That was such a lovely introduction.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Brianca.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I know that you pride yourself on being a good
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: friend and you've really made it part of who you are.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: We were talking a bit about this before the camera
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: started rolling. Can you share a bit about that. Why
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: is friendship so important to you?
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: I truly always believe that the most important part of
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: my politics really is friendship. And I believe in like
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: a politics of building friendships, and I I think, N, yeah, N.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: I've always been like, hey, friendship as a person. And
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: I also grew up like not having the greatest relationship
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: with my parents. I didn't feel very safe at home
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: at a young age, so I always you know s
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: went out seeking friendship to really complete me in so
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: many ways. And I feel like I've always thanked my
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: friends for wherever I am in life. And I I
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: can't why are we living? Why we alli not? For friends?
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: And like for like, friendship is like sharing you know,
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: what do we do if we if we had? Like? Uh,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: humans are social animals and who are we being social with?
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: For me, friendship has filled so many voids that I
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: feel like my parents couldn't. And yeah, I always hope
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: to like for a friendship to be the most central,
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: most important thing in my life. And I feel like
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: growing up as well, when like we're thought to aspire
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: to things. I didn't wanna aspire to success, and I
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: didn't wanna ex aspire to like this grand wealth without
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: like aspiring to be a good friend. And and when
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: I ask myself, like the five and I die, what
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: is the legacy I wanna leave behind? It will always
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: I wanna hear that this person was a good friend.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: You know, because yeah, that's I wish that we had
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: more of that, because I feel like adult life is
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: the relentless message of like friendships were a thing of y.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Of the young people thing.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: You know, Now you have to settle down and like
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: marriage and children, any business and all of these other
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: things seem to.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Be fit to you as if that's what you should do.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Right. That's asexual and heteromeative like propaganda. For sure. They
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: want you to believe that that is what is that
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: is what holds value in life, and only that kind
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: of life is one worth living and aspiring and working towards.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: And yeah, and yet I.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Mean it's a system that makes adults rather friendless, which
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: is really unfortunate. How do you make friends or what
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: for you qualify as somebody as a friend.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: I think you can just feel it in your heart.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: For me, my friends are like soulmates. I think there's
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: just a clique. I don't know what it is. It
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: just works that way. And I feel like even when
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: these people probably live your life, I feel like I
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: will always think of them as someone where like I
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: don't know, it sounds like a Bluetooth connects sound and
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: no one passed a button on the Bluetooth. It's just
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: like that, I wouldn't. I feel like I have many
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: friends and they're all very different people, and n they
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: don't have to be a same kind of person for
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: me to love them. So I but yeah, it is
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: very vague these days. And I've also always been the
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: kind of person who's first to call someone my friend,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: first to also call them my best friend. So my
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: whole life have gone calling someone, hey, this is my
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: best friend, while they stood, they're like, yeah, mm best
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: friend friends friends are okay. So I've always been extra
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: in that way. Yeah, and now, as a result of
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: being that way for many years, I now don't know
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: when someone's my friend, and I'm like overly gotious cautious.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: But I also don't know how people make friends anyway.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: A lot of my friends are people I found on
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: the internet.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people the have in general
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: cultivated a sense of nonchalance, like even in romantic relationships,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: it seems like you shouldn't seem.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Too too to care too much, you know. But I'm
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: also really scared.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's I'm very all or nothing in
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: in as a person, and so I'm often like nothing
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: because I'm kind of scared that most people can't handle all.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Do you find yourself well?
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: Fully, I am very like, I am very very loving.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: I have lots of love to give, so I think
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  Speaker 3: to the wrong kind of person, that can be too much.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: To the right kind of person, it's actually very endearing,
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  Speaker 3: I hope, But I am definitely that person. And what
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: I've realized now is because I have sense that i
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: find myself in a lot of relationships where I'm the
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: person in every friend shure, I'm the person giving more.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: I'm the one making plans, initiating doing things, and I'm
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: not receiving the same energy. So I now have to
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: not do anything clearly, that's cause that's what it feels
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: like to my nervous system, like I'm doing too much,
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: so I must not do anything, which ultimately does not
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: feel great. So I think, now, like in my brain,
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: how to set the rules that find fifty percent friends,
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: You know, the friends you can go out with like
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: once a month, do a na something like go watch
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: a play, or like go to a gallery or something,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: and that's it. I guess you don't really like love
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: each other and are constantly there and like texting every day.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: We can't have those kind of friendships anymore. You have
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: to have the kind of friendships where you do just
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: like a little bit, you talk a little bit, and
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: no one like is in love with each other too much,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: and because then you won't fight right the moment you
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: love too much, you also fight as much. And people
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: don't want to have to do that anymore. They don't
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: want to have to like sit and deal and like
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: be honest with each other. Now we can all just
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: have like chat geept generated polite friendships.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Polite friendships. Yeah, I do, And I actually do wonder
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: how much it is reasonable to be able to expect
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: off a friend and how much I am able to
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: provide as a friend. At thirty five, it's kind of
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: like disillusioning and sad to think about friendships like that,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: but I was thinking about it because I feel like
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I don't even feel like I can expect beyond what
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: you were saying that it needs to be pleasant and polite,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: manager palatable.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Can you like the language already that we've adopted into
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: our just vocabulary is just so like?
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  Speaker 2: And I find myself also though not giving as I mean,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I'm I don't ask, I don't expect or provide more
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: than the.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Exactly what we were talking about. Is that beyond just
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: also expecting, it's also that no one even lets you
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: into their life now anymore for you to also be
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: like a better friend, like if no, like, how do
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I call someone like I just moved into like earlier
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: this year, moved into a new place needed help setting up,
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: and you know, how do I call a friend be
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: like hey, can you come home and help me with this?
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  Speaker 3: When they are never gonna do that. They are never
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: gonna have to call me be like hey can you
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: come help because they probably have a partner or they
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: already have a sad group of friends who are like
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: their number one. So I cannot also expect of someone
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: something that they will never let me do for them either.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: And it's just constant imbalance, and then also constantly having
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: to think, like, oh, the power relationships in place in
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: this relationship, Like I hope not me not asking you
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: for something. I hope this labor I'm asking of you
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: is not perceived as exploitation. Everyone's talking also in this
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: like therapy, therapy, corporate speak. I just want to like,
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: you know, you just want to chill, not to your
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: friends sometimes and harder to write. Yeah, that level of
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: just like informal intimacy, playful, just like.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Being an inconvenience.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: That definitely all my relations I'm always afraid I'm being
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: quite frankly at this point. I feel like I work
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: so much so I kind of don't want to be
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: inconvenience to either. So I'm just really lonely.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just profoundly lonely.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: And we'll talk about loneliness in a second, because it's funny, right,
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  Speaker 2: we have lots.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Of follow us.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Most people think we have whoever should we so choose,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: But the fact is we're mainly alone. We will, we will.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: We are laughing and inside we're crying. But we'll get
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: more more into that in a second. I want to
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: play crappy friend bingo with you. It's a game our
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: lovely producers and as invented today, and we're gonna throw
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: some scenarios at you, and you can tell me whether
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: you've either been on the receiving end of that, done
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: it yourself, or have any comments.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
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  Speaker 2: Crappy friend bingo, So the friend who disappears when they
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: start dating someone.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: We all have those. That's that's a classic. I don't
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: I don't take that too hard.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Have you been that?
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: No? No, No, men are just not interested. No, I'm
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: gonna no, i'mnt man interesting enough. I know. I just
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: honestly prioritize all my friends more.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Than any any person.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, the group chat ghost who only shows up
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: when there's gossip.
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  Speaker 3: That's me.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, gossip is underrated.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: I do think can be quite the information. Yeah, strength,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: and I am a curious person. This is about intellectual pursuits.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: It's friends should be able to gossip. Forgets your big milestone.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Get your birthday?
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah no, yeah, like this friend who like and lots
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: of friends.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Who do you take it to her?
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: No? But I remember you do remember? I remember so
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: like I have a it's a curse. I remember everyone's birthday.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: So if you didn't wish me. I will remember your
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: birthday and remember to not wish you.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, we'll talk about pettiness in a bit. I am
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: so forgetful. I barely remember my own bird. Like I'm
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: so bad with the friend who's amazing in person, terrible
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: at texting me.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not a great Texter. No, I hate my phone,
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: and rightfully like it's.
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: Just like what New Horrors bossed, like the moment you
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: touch it, only I'm like, like every time I'm scrolling
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: on Instagram, I.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: Can physically feel it rotting my brain. I hate it.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: I don't want to do it that I have to
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: do it so like, I think anyone who loves me
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: knows how much pain my phone has caused me and
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: should be happy that I'm not using it.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's fair. The person who suggests ten hangouts
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: but shows up to none.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: I wish I had friends who are suggesting hangouts. Nothing
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: show they've made friends, they made group chat, they didn't
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: add me.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: I think people often assume that everyone else has friends,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: but I really think there's just a ton of lonely
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: adults out there.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: No, I think you also like think like I have
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: something important to do, so they're not asking me.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: I think we all assume and somehow we're the only
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: one who's lonely and wishes we can.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Have a hug right now.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it's almost impat seem to have to ask,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: but really, like everyone is feeling that way.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: I know when I wish people just knew, like to
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: just show up, just like show up.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, the the person who always one ups
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: your stories.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Oh I don't like competitive friends stories.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: I have a bunch of those, I guess right, or
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: like or I can sense, I can sense jealousy. I
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: don't know what it is sense when friends are being
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: like jealous of me. And that's the thing, is that I,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: being the good friend I am, would always like i've
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: always over the past three years, also toned myself down
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: so deeply because I would never want a friend to
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: feel that way for me, Like that's not the point
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: of anything, right, Like I don't want to make my
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: friends feel that way to the point where I would
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: make myself smaller, and I will do extra to make
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: them feel like, oh, you're all amazing, Like this is
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: not like someone saying something nice a lot of me
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: does not mean that you're not that, and I would
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: go way out on my way and I feel like
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: and let this quarterly, which was like in all my life,
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: I want to walk into rooms and I want to
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: make people feel like they're amazing and they're great, and
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: people have always tried to do the opposite to me.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: It make me feel like I'm lesser than who I am,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: which is like to take a step back from that.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: That's not friendship. And I don't need to make myself
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: smaller for anyone else to feel better, because that is
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: not friendship, Like why would why would they want me
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: to be?
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Absolutely no?
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, now, if you like good friend bingo situations. The
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: friend who checks in on you after a tough day
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: without you asking.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: I guess at some point in time they have been
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: friends like this. I don't right now have any like that.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Maybe we can check in on it. We can text
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: you when I get home.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: The friend who makes actual plans instead of just saying
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: let's catch up.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I do have friends who do like that. And
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: another the thing you have once in a while, once
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: in some once in a decade, they comes along this
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: friend who is a bubbling shining just like all of
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: life and has the power, really, and it's a social miracle,
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: the organizing capacity to draw so many people and then
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: you're having the time of your life because everyone is happy.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: This friend really knows to control a crowd and get
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: friends together and like organize in this way. And then
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: I find will go to New York for college and
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: I'll all go over them. But no, definitely had friends
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: like that. It is like some people just know like to.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, last one. Oh no, there's two more. The
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: friend who doesn't panic when you need space.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I do have my best friend, really, and she
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: is my rock in many ways. I she has been
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: a bad friend to me in the past, but this
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: is what I want. I'm not saying that people can't
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: hurt each other and people can't be bad friends, because
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: that's when human We can this friend even when I've
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: like thrown tantrums been really hurt and angry, and she'd
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: be like, you can do this. I don't, like you
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: shouldn't be speaking to me like this, but I'm not
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: going anyway, and like knowing that, knowing that is just
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: like and like the just like that that like steadfastness
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: in being like I am not going anyway. We will
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: deal with this is is just it's just such a
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: like it's a soft punch to the nervous system in
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: a way that is like, Okay, you know, like I
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: just want to be angry. Let me be angry. You know,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: I've always been an angry person when I became very
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: all or nothing. Because now I'm not angry at all,
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: I just cry. I can't be angry because I feel
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: like it's been taken away from me in so many ways.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: And just having being able to like that anger being
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: allowed and I'm just not scaring someone for it to
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: be seen as what it is is just such a
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: It's something I really value.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that for me.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Also, friendships, relationships where the person really sees you and
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: accepts you ugly bits like yeah, we're all hanging out,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: you know, like because you're not as put together as
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: you see me more circumstances with me, friendship is the one.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Place where I should allow to Yeah, that should be.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: The month I am a monster. I am a monster
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: and my friends can know that. Yeah, you know, I don't.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Have And for the longest one of time, also, it
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: was like I had like if I'm a monster, I'm
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: hearing these people then going and telling like the whole
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: world or something. Right, well, hopefully they should and they
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: shouldn't rather than big you know, we're supposed to do
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: each other because oh no, you are a public figure,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: so your life must like everyone, you.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Must be used.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: They must go tell people everything about you. So that's
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: also such a huge like barrier to friendship for me.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: I feel so yeah, that would happen as well.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so with that we've ended the friendship bingo.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: We do have some other other quick fire activities that
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: will get into a moment. But you mentioned, you know,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: being a public figure, and I think that this, Yes,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: social media friends I have, like we were Internet friends.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: One of the first times we're actually getting to chat.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: But this idea of like they might friend, I mean
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: they follow, you follow each other, you like each other's
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: work is clearly like good vibes. But I almost think
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: that I have more at this point like notional friends,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: like the friends they show up like maybe to something if.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: There's something clear to do that also has a work,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: they might actually be more supportive of your work stuff.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: We'll share each other's work, yeah, and things.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: But it's such a low stakes relationship where there's no
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: real emotional investment on either parties. And I wonder whether
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: even though we're so connected with you know, but we
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: hate our phones, like, are we more connected to actually
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: are we more disconnected?
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Is a question that I'm always.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Wondering about because some great things have happened thanks to
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: the Internet.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: But where where are you standing on?
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: You know, with all this chatter of the loneliness epidemic,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: do you think that the Internet's made people friendlier, less friendly,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: more connected, less connected.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: People very lonely and disconnected. I think it's getting worse.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: These are like scientific papers about how like the just
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: the doom scrolling is like really messing with people, and
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: I'm causing brain damage if anything. And I think this
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: is the most antisocial element because I swear to God
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I will spend the whole day at home just doing
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: that instead of like actually picking up the phone and
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: calling someone because it feels so it feels so this
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: And also I feel like it also is a barrier
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: to friendship because damn I don't need to know all
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: this about you, mm, you know, like you could you
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: could just normally meet someone like a neighbor something and
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: just like wa wave at each other once in a while.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Now we know that political views, what poetry, they're like
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: what are they coming doing?
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: As all often and we're judging and we're judging like.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Insanely and like it it's just not we just we're
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: not supposed to know this much about each other.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: And what do you think of the sort of optics
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: of friendship on social media? You know that the types
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: of brunch pictures, there's like this esthetics of friendship, especially
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: female friendship. And I mean, I adore my female friends,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: have some who have like you know, I mean everything
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: But I also think there's a.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Certain you know, I think we all have Like it's
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: like we collectively all had had to sign the pack
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: that we will uphold this trope of female friendships, so
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: to say. But I was like, is there any room
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: for criticism of that? Is there room for when like
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: your female friendships are not working, they're not showing up
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: for you, it's not working in the way that it's
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: not shown on Instagram? There isn't And also like what
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: inherently about female friendships is just this magical.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: One No straight male friends, so you know, like that
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: same I.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Also don't have like male friends in that way because
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: they are also really flop friends exactly.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're all human at the end of the day.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: But of course, so I don't think women should have
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: to uphold some higher moral standard. I agree with you completely,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: but I think there's this idea of I don't know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: a certain instagrammable friendship that might not actually be.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, friendships of friendships as well are not always perfect,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Like people obviously have issues, but there's so much focus
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: on being able to put on that product. In a way,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: it's a product right at the end of the day.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: The image of like happy friendshipping and a group that's
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: even like groups that everyone is happy, I don't think
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: that's real because.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I also think that because the Internet
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: became this place of work for me as well. Initially
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: it felt like something I was doing as my passion
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: project on the internet never seemed like it would become work,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: but then it became. And initially all these people I
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: met on the internet just seemed like also interested in
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: similar things.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: And this is so. But now everyone's.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Also making the Internet their workplace, so there's as a
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: transactional element.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Also sometimes it ruins it. Yeah, it's unfortunate how that happens.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: But I wonder whether the very systems of capitalism having
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: to earn a living would have just like the material
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: realities of adult life, do you think they buy design
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: make it really difficult to nurture and prioritize one.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Hundred percent are the biggest barriers to friendships really, Like
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, we're all busy because we do have jobs,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: we are always working. We do need to earn money,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: and that is definitely the main reason. But for me,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: like as I said, friendship was supposed to be like
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: number one priority, So everything like that was what I
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: wanted my life to evolve around. But it's become like
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: but if that's not something, or if can evolve around
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: if it's the last thing for everyone else. And before
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: I used to be really into Instagram and connecting with
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: people because my whole thing was like I wanted to
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: share it was very happy sharing my life and documenting
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: and sharing it being my most authentic self until like
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: that got a lot of flak and being myself was
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: like seen as like a liability to me, so I
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: stopped being myself. I started like being myself on a
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: private Instagram account with just my friends on it, and
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: the nature of Instagram is that you it's just like
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: it's time pass. No one is seriously looking at their
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: phone when they're looking at Instagram, right, and I'll be
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: on my like private Instagram like crying like ha ha,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: something like like if you're having some breakdown and you
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: just see all your friends saying it and having nothing
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: to say. Mm. But I also decided I didn't wanna
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: share this with like a large public audience because I
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: don't know what they do with that information and how
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: they used to hurt me. So now I'm gonna now
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: I find myself in a place where I can't connect
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: with an audience because I know that hurts me. I'm
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: trying to connect with my friends or still on Instagram,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: but they but I'm getting the message that that's not
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: that's not how they want to communicate. So the I
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: stopped using Instagram altogether for any like personal out community
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: like expression in any way. We only like work updates
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: or like I made this like this commission sharing like
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: work I've made and know like personal opinions or like
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: personally what's happening with my life? Yeah, I guess it's
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: I think what keeps me going is that you have
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: not met all the people who will love you and
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: be friends with you in this world. And that is
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: true every month, every new year. Is you know, you
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: can meet someone you you never know. So, yeah, it's
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: not the end of the world.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: No, it's not.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I think we maybe set ourselves up for disappointment when
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: we think that everyone has the capacity.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Do I find that like many people just don't.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I've stopped ex I've stopped expect the idea
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: of like any one is a potential friend. It's something
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I've been like, Okay, my idealism there was miss last. Yes,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: but there's some people. There's definitely some people who make
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: up for the rest.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: They do for sure, and that's what makes you know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: And that's those people are why I have come to
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: the conclusion that what I want to how I wanna
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: approach this friendship thing now, is that it's like go
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: to the gym, to therapy. It's the kind of things
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: you gotta do because you need it for your mental
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: well being. Like do it as medicine as a chore maybe,
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: but like go with like the as I said, the
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: fifty percent friends. Yes, once in a while, you go
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: out to do something it's not it's you're not like
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: soul sisters or whatever. It's just a good do you
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: have a good time, you do something, you come back.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Just do those even if you're like and I have
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: like a bunch of mental illnesses, which for me, like
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: my brain is constantly telling me people hate me. My
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: closest friends Also, I'm like, oh, they they probably hate
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: me though, so for me to actually, like, you know,
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: I have to put that aside and do it. So
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: I've told myselquy, it doesn't matter whatever you think, uh
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: they think about it, it doesn't matter. Just go spend
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: time because just being around people is good for you.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: And like I have to tell myself that because I'm
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: all is like, no one wants to hang with me,
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: so I'm just not gonna go. They're just calling me
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: as well. They feel bad for me, so they're calling me.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: I'm on that trip. That's my own.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Probably all have like baggage. We want the friendship, but
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: it's hard.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: I've told myself, like, leaver it, just go out, go, go,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: just spend some time with the person and come back.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: And that is possible only if you know at the
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: back of your head you've got those three four people
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: who are like there for you, which also sometimes I
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: forget and feel a little bit like, oh, maybe they're
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: not there for me, but then they do remind me.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: It's just sad that all of them have not been
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: the same city. So yeah, but yeah, no, definitely there's
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: always good friends.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Well, we're gonna play another little quick fire game, and
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: this one is called no overthinking. Oh well, I'm gonna
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: throw something statements at you.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Fill in the blanks.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: It's fill in the blanks where you just complete the sentence,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: you know, as quick and concise response.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, of course, it as usual.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: It's about crappy friends, maybe also good friends, friendship in general,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: being petty, all that good stuff. Okay. A crappy friend
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: is someone who.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Isn't there for you when you need them.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: A good friend never.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: Uh never let you go hungry. Oh I like that.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: The moment I knew a friendship was over was when.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Uh, when someone when a friend like wrote paragraphs like
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: talking about me like a troll on the internet on
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: their story.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm sorry what happened to you?
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: You know, a friendship is real when.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: I just feel it.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: No, I I understand that that's a great answer.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: You. I just feel it, like I just feel it, Yeah,
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: the way when someone like M backs me up when
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: they didn't need to.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I feel, yeah, that is special. The one thing I
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: secretly judge my friends.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: For is.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Watching friends.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say that taste in men.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: But yeah, no, actually, I'm honestly I have such bad
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: taste man that all my friends have bad a tastern man.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: So I don't get the dutiest charge.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: We talk chudge each other. Okay.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: The last time I felt truly seen by friend was when.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: Damn oh, okay, no, this isn't really this is not
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: the last time, but it is a moment when like
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: I've had totally seen my best friend. I wasn't talking
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: to her like the month of my birthday when we're
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: in college, and it's on my whole like I feel
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: like no one loves me things and I know that.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: So she made like a whole like she got all
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: my friends to wish me happy birthday in a different
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: in a video, and that whole video they're all saying
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: no one loves me, and they quite obviously all loved me.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: She made that video and we didn't actually speak the
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: whole month because I was like fighting with her, but
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: she still made that for my birthday, So I was like,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: sh she truly solving for the pettiest reason I've ever
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: stopped talking to someone was That's the thing. I don't
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: stop talking to people like that. Yeah, Like, unless you've
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: done something really big enough for me to justify it,
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: I won't stop talking to you, even if I don't
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: like you that much.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, if friendship came with a warning label, mine would.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Say, uh, attaches too fast.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Friendship breakups hurt more than romantic ones because.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Mm or do they?
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Oh? Of course they do. Oh, I don't just don't. Clearly,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: I don't respect the people ad eight ahne it, I
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: just d Honestly, I've never viewed only romantic relationships with
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: that much value, so to early this and never even
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: a like competition, I wouldn't put them put that in
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: the same sentence.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Wow, Okay.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so let's talk a little bit more about
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: when a friendship ends. I think that you already mentioned
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: that friendship breakups always hit really hard. W what about forgiveness?
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: What are the types of things that you found yourself
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: being able to do to retain friendships when you know
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: that it's time to let a friendship go th.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Again, I'm not the person who will cave first, So
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: I'm always like I'm the if you wanna break this,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: you can. So I've always accept like maybe the cause this.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Person who wrote the stories you s for example.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, so that person I just blocked, and I
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: was like, you know, I have nothing to say, Like
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: what what is left to say? You're acting like a troll,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Like I I invite you in my life as a friend,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: and you behave like people I explicitly do not want. Right,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: but even that friend like uh, at some point, like
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: later like three four months after that, I was l
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: I just texted. I was like, how dare you treat
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: me like that? And then not even apologize, Like you've
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: got a really big mouth for a person who can't
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: even say on small apologies what I said? And then
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: the and I deleted that message.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Then did they say it?
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah? This year as real? Yeah?
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: And did they did they get.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: And then they they did they didn't get back and
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: they were like uh and you're right, I am sorry
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: and you know and they were like, uh, I didn't
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: approach you cause I didn't feel like that's what you wanted,
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: and I was like, I've known you for like whatever
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: six years? H how did that? How did you just
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: not think that at all? And whatever? They said something
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: and then I was like, you know what, like I
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: still don't have that nagertaria to like fully like revive
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: this friendship right now. So I didn't say anything and
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: gender like recently like la like last week or something,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: this person next to me again and you're just doing
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: like a little high hollo, like you know, just like
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: how are you what's happening just that?
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, A do you find yourself able to let go
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: of friendships where you feel like you haven't been treated alright?
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Or do you like I think, yeah, like I've gotten
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: better standards, Like I'm lonely, but I have.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Standards for a hundred percent that like when I.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Was younger, my standards wonders.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: I'm very picky with my friends. Now I'm very I
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: have a lot of restraint before I call someone my
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: best friend, which is something I just to be like,
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: I have so many best friends. I call everyone my
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: best friend and be like there's a hierarchy like who's
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: on different levels and all, and so I have to
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: stop calling people my best friend, because I guess that's
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: something they have to own or something. But as I say,
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: I'm a very loving person. I'm very more than happy
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: to call anyone like who I wanna call my best friend?
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: But I've had to learn to do that. And it's
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: like you have to have a vetting process now, and
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: if you don't, then you're like naive and you just
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: don't you don't have a good sense of people.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and do you find that friends or rather, do
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: you think it is possible to be friends despite having
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: very different views on the world now unless you don't
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: know but the other like you know how we were
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: talking about how before you could take friends with you
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: but now you know what they're politics.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Friends like you can be really close friends. You can
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: be friends with anyone. You can honestly be friends with anyone,
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: but really close friends, I don't think you can because
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: it's it's also like a what you define presure. I'm
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: an incredibly sweet person to anyone who meets me, which
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: is also one of my biggest fears in life, is
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: that tomorrow someone could abuse out of me on the
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: internet and then come in front of me and I'll
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: be really nice to them. I would never know that
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: this person has gone and like called me all sorts
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: of things on the internet because I would just be
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: really nice to them, cause that's just how I wanna
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: move in this world. Uh so yeah, So like for me,
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: it's like, n you can be nice to anyone, you
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: can be civil with anyone, you can have a conversation
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: with anyone.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: You don't even have to agree with.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Them, and you can maybe even call that friendship. But
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: I can't. I have to be myself. My personal self
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: is very it's very insulting towards people I do not like,
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: and I feel like in a friendship, you should be
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: able to be like you that kind of person, Like,
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: that kind of person sucks. But if you're gonna receive that,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: and we're gonna have to sit down, I'm gonna have
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: to like, like, if you don't already understand where I'm
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: coming from, I'm just not gonna get it. Mm. Like,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: I like, I have been many friendships, been the person
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: who is the educator, and I've always been the token
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: friend for so many people, and I didn't like it.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: I didn't like like going out with a friend and
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: then she'll put your head and be like how I
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: explained casts to them, you know, and or or I.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: I remember at this one point in time, I had
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: this friend for whom I was like very obviously her
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: token friend, and like she would always like make it
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: a show off, like how much she's learning and how
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: she's getting better, and she's such an ally. But I
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: was the only friend like me that she had, and
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: all her other friends were completely unlike me, were very
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: just just not me, just very like frivolous and aspiring
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: to just like material things in life and just like
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: social climbing in so many ways, and they were all
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: they were all like that. So I was just like,
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: clearly you want friends like that, so why do you
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: want me? M right? And I had to like take
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: a step back, cause we're very different now that I
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: don't hate, Like I don't I I'm not friends with
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: this person. But it's not because of like anything she
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: did wrong. We were just really different and like it
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: came from different places, we wanted to go different places.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: So you know, I guess sometimes you are able to
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: distance one yourself from a friend from a friend without
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: too much pain because maybe the depth of that relationship
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: didn't get to it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes they're really untalented, and then people kind of
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: look at you every time they do something, and I
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: don't want her like in the sense you get judged
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: by I don't claim Yeah, oh, I want to judge
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: the friends you have. My entire life, it's always like
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: I'm it's never like people are like thinking greatly of
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: them because me.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: No, they might be. You don't know that.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I definitely think I think I knew this like them. Yeah,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: I think I would think by proxy, Ifrianca likes someone,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: they're probably could.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, On that note, we will do another game.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: The last one it's called.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: So.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: This one's called friendship breakup or can communication fix it?
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: So we're gonna give you some scenarios that some people
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: petty scenarios and more heigh stakes scenarios that some people
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: do find to be grounds for, like an irrevocable change
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: in the friendship right, while others find that a simple
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: conversation can fix some of them.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Let's see, what do you think?
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, they forgot your birthday, but remember to post their
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: gym selfie.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Depends on the closeness I feel. They just didn't wish me.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: They didn't wish only hmmm. I won't wish them it's fine.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: This is not this. Apparently the world doesn't allowed to
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: be a big deal, But to me it is.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: You open up about something really hard and they say
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: ah that sacks, then changes the topic.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: These kind of friends, now they keep doing this till
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: you drop them. You can have the conversation. You will
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: come to it. Only now you will tell only how y,
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: how I'm talking. You're not even listening, and you will
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: go on for us and ours and are to listen here.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: They'll feel bad for a bit, But then that person
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: is a narcissist. I'm clearly doctor one very particular position.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: Yes you are, but that person is a narcissist and
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: will not stop. And then eventually, uh, eventually we'll throw
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: you out.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Only so yeah, so take the s the hint.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: Take that it's like a slow ber, slow dying, slow burn.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: It's going They ghost you for six months and then text,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: miss you, babe, let's catch up soon?
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Are they are they paying for the catching up? Then okay,
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: I'll come.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Noted you're traveling together and you did all the trip planning.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: They just showed up and then complained a lot.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: So uh thankless behavior. No, I mean you will communicate
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: only you went through all the links of planning all this.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Why are they complaining? Then they should have done something? Yeah,
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: are you.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Good at having the difficult conversations? What is the difficult
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: conversation when you're not happy with something?
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Or when you just wish that I used to be
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: and now I'm not.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: Now I just not say anything because my brain is
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: telling me I'm being extra.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I'm very conflict of les.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Also, when I used to not be, I used to be.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: I used to be starting the conflict.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: I know, not in friends.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Group, but I loved the conflict that you were rightfully
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: starting on the internet.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: They never apologize, Yeah, no, you can't have that.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: They say, what is your like?
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: What what happened to you that you can't apologize? You know, like,
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: what is no issue? Some people are just really not
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: apologizing just a word? This is how do you make it?
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: Your mouth?
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: You just say it right? They said, that's just how
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I am after hurting.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: You, after hurting you, that's just how I am. Then
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: they're not apologizing, so there's no conversation to be bye
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: bye bye.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: They only reach out when they need a design favor.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: M M. Yeah, I don't reply. I don't want.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: They treat you differently around other people.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: Oh big big no bye out ou out. Oh my god,
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: I can feel it in my bones. And also like
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: friends who you have a great rap over on and
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: on and then in a group, it just changes. It's
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: just I can't I don't understand it.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Good riddance to such people. But you know what we've been.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I feel like we've been real And the honest truth
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: is that you know, once you've crossed your like mid
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: to late twenties, it kind of gets harder and harder
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: to maintain sustain and natural and we let alone build new.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: Friends have children now?
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: But no, who have children?
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: If you want friends?
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I think that you know, some people seem to be
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: doing that.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: I remain steady fast in my belief that they are
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: and will continue to be magical, beautiful, life affirming friendships.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: And I want to end on a hopeful note. Let's
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: think about the friendships in our lives. You know you're
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: the guest. It's really not about me, So you tell
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: me about the friendships in your life that make you
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: feel like this is all worthwhile?
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Like I wanna be here?
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Why are so many I don't have a dearth of friendships,
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: which is also why this hurts now, is because I
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: have always been held up by my friends and they're
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: amazing people. Like every time I would get told on
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: the internet, I remember my friends made a WhatsApp group
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: and I'm on it and they all had my Instagram
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: log and they will get on my Instagram delete messages
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: so I don't see them.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: Sweet, that's so sweet. Yeah, I'm in like, like, I've
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: really just dependent on my friends for most of my life.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: So now when I feel like I don't know they're
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: going away or we just can't be as close, it
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: really hurts. But like they still show up in the
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: smallest two ways. And even in like I have this
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: friend whose whose name is Nawaa. We're both non binary,
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: and I though really often get assumed to be woman
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: and I don't. I don't find it offensive and I'm
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: not gonna correct anyone for it. Uh, but ill every
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: time I'm wearing like n like a cute dress and
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: I really love dressing in my fairy princess type way,
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: and I'm not even though that's viewed as you viewed
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: as like a woman fem way of dressing. I don't
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: think it as was clothes and don't gender and I'm
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: just a little very fairy prince, very prince any of that. Yeah,
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: and I know I'll be like very conventionally dressing what
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: it will considered a womanly And this friend of mine
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: will always comment like, you go, king looking so handsome king,
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: and it's so small. But I know, like even when
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: everyone else is viewed me as whatever they want to
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: view me as, my friend knows what I want to
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: be viewed as. I will make sure that they like
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: come in and say that, and it'll like, it'll feel
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: it feel feels so like like recently, this friend, like
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: I was bridesmaide at my cousin's wedding and uh, he
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: was just he just said, you're like you look like
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: the Prince of the Gardens of Tea and I was like,
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: oh my god, that is so sweet and it's just
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: it's just a small thing and it just made me
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: feel so nice. Yeah. Yeah, even like because I'm not
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: that person't gonna be like, hey, please use my correct
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: pronouns because I'm like, you don't want to be that person.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Because immedia really twists this narrative into like oh, with
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: all the queer people are like so concerned with frivolous
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: things like pronouns. You don't want to be that person,
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: but for someone to like you know, se see you
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: for who you are, and that way is to be beautiful.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing that.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Why don't we leave our viewers with because secretly we're
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: all lonely and dying from our friends. And also I
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: think could or many of us I think could work
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: on being better friends. Yeah, and since you've done so
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: deeply about what it means to be a good friend,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: would you have like three tips or three bare minimum
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: qualities to aspire to if you're trying to be a
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: better friend, Because I hope like the people who are
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: the crappy friends might also watch this and think, oh hey.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: Hey, hey, okay, I think like gifting one and small things,
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: it's like scribbling on a paper. Honestly, just like just
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: if you would take a minute to just think about
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: someone and what would like, it'll make you feel better,
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: you know, like giving gifts to people makes the giver
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: feel better than the receiver. So like, I think, just
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: like the idea that you just thought of someone, even
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: if it's like a small note, if it's like a
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: pasture back or dairy milk anything. I feel simple way
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: to show you're a good friend just showing up. You'd
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: only need a reason. I know that a lot of
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: us are very like scared now that our friends might Hey,
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: you're invading my privacy in my space right now. But
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: maybe a lot of us just want you to show up,
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: no no reason, no nothing, no asking, or just show up.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: String my bell just that. I think, just just message
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: people just because, just because you thought of them. Yeah,
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: like just like like today someone text like you know,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: just text people like, Hey, I thought of you. I
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: hope you're doing well. I think if we done more
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: of that, we'd have the thing is, but now more
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: than I was saturated by seeing people around us but
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: feeling like we cannot ever reach out to them, and
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: I think we should break that.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Brianka, thanks so much for joining us on
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Love Matters. I had so much fun me too, and
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: I hope that you enjoyed watching this episode. If you
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: resonated with it, please share it, Please leave us comments
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: with your thoughts. If you want to write to us,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: you can do so at Love Matters at DW dot com.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Love Matters is produced by the Indian Express in da W,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Germany's international broadcaster. I'm Lisa Mangeldas. I'll see you next time.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: M