Latest / Just Heal with Dr Jay / Healing Through Grace: A Conversation with Kirk Franklin and Dr. Jay Barnett

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Healing Through Grace: A Conversation with Kirk Franklin and Dr. Jay Barnett · Just Heal with Dr Jay

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Just Heal with Doctor J, a production of
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: another episode of Just Here with Doctor J. And I
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  Speaker 1: am your host, Doctor J. Barnett. Listen. Some of you
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: have been eavesdropping listening to the episodes, but I want
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to take this opportunity to invite you to subscribe. To
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: click that link and come on and stop flirting with us,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and you join this healing community. The thing that we're
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: doing over here is so phenomenal. We are changing minds,
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  Speaker 1: we're changing lives, but more importantly, we're having impactful conversation
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  Speaker 1: and dialogue not just around mental health, but around healing.
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  Speaker 1: Healing our minds, our bodies, and our spirits is so
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  Speaker 1: important for the time that we're living in. So I
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  Speaker 1: want you to join our community if you can listen
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: on the Black Effect Podcast Network and also on iHeart
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Podcast Network or anywhere that you listen to podcasts. All Right,
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  Speaker 1: so you guys know that the month of September the
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  Speaker 1: month of October that I have been working entirely to
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  Speaker 1: bring some enlightening conversations and some powerful conversation. And one
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  Speaker 1: of the conversations I've been eager to have is with
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  Speaker 1: my brother, Kirk Franklin. You guys know him as a songwriter,
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  Speaker 1: the producer, and all the accolades that you know he
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  Speaker 1: has achieved. But today we get to sit down and
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  Speaker 1: talk to the man and we get to have a
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  Speaker 1: conversation not only with just the artist, but with the
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  Speaker 1: man himself. So I want to welcome my brother, Kirk.
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  Speaker 1: Are you doing King? Are you doing black Man? Good?
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  Speaker 2: King?
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  Speaker 1: Listen, Man, listen. I don't know what's going on, but brother,
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  Speaker 1: it's like we was in each other's closets.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well you wasn't in mine because you would have
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  Speaker 2: been your dog show.
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  Speaker 1: So, man, brother, I am so excited to sit with
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  Speaker 1: you today, man and share space. We have an opportunity
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  Speaker 1: to share space on your amazing show. And I just
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  Speaker 1: want to say thank you for what you guys are
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  Speaker 1: doing with the Den of Kings and having these man
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  Speaker 1: it was these raw conversations that men don't get to have.
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  Speaker 2: Nice and that episode had a lot to offer the man.
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  Speaker 1: Brother Man listeners, Yeah, man, And so how did that
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  Speaker 1: come about? You know, the Dead Kings? Then?
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, Den was birth out of my fifty
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  Speaker 2: fifth birthday dinner. But Historically, I've always enjoyed sitting around
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  Speaker 2: the table with people and engaging the conversations. I wasn't
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  Speaker 2: raised with family, so I don't know how it is
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  Speaker 2: to be at the table with mom and daddy and
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  Speaker 2: siblings and just having engaging conversations. So when I got
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  Speaker 2: older and started having groups and singers and musicians and
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  Speaker 2: band and we would travel the world together, that kepa
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  Speaker 2: started to be my introduction to table talk and table
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  Speaker 2: conversations and and me being already automatically inquisitive, like I'm
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  Speaker 2: one that's always seeking out information. And sometimes I'll even
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  Speaker 2: be a spark starter, like I'll throw out something knowing
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  Speaker 2: I already know what the answer is going to be,
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  Speaker 2: but I just want to be able to stir the
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  Speaker 2: pot on the table just to get it kate ofgoring,
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  Speaker 2: so that people can jump in and have engaged in conversations.
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  Speaker 2: I love elevating my mind and my my space with
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  Speaker 2: intellectual debate and dialogue to be able to grow and
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  Speaker 2: to be able to just inform others at the table
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  Speaker 2: and just kind of pushed the narratives of just being
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  Speaker 2: to really being informed and being aware and being challenged.
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  Speaker 2: And so for my fifty fifth birthday dinner. I flew
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  Speaker 2: to Atlanta because all of my god friends, majority of
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  Speaker 2: my god friends living in Atlanta on my bros. And
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  Speaker 2: so I had dinner with the bros. And that night
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  Speaker 2: turned into one of those conversations to the point that
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  Speaker 2: a couple of the guys that also produced with they
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  Speaker 2: were like, bro, we think this may be a show. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: this may be a show. And so it started during January,
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  Speaker 2: and we shot the first one in May. M so
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  Speaker 2: and uh, well, like we shot the first two in May,
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  Speaker 2: and I've been blown away by the reception. Like it's
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  Speaker 2: been crazy, man, crazy.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. When Phil, when Phil reached out to me man
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  Speaker 1: and told me what he was doing, he was like, Yo, Man,
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  Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to do something with Kirk. Bro, I
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  Speaker 1: think it's gonna be amazing. And when he told me
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  Speaker 1: the concept, I said, bro, it's gonna pop. Well he's like, man,
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  Speaker 1: you think so? I said, Man, you know Phil is
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  Speaker 1: my fraternity brother, and yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So then so, no matter came by all that. We
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  Speaker 2: could get going wasting our time with all that, and
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  Speaker 2: you know, just yo to the news and listen, Kirk,
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  Speaker 2: did you said so?
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  Speaker 1: So?
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  Speaker 2: Because I know.
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  Speaker 1: People like all right, what what what fraternity here? Cap
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  Speaker 1: Ific f Attorney Corporated.
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  Speaker 2: He was so happy to do that. He was so
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  Speaker 2: happy to do that. He ain't picked them. No Bible
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  Speaker 2: hit it for no biblist Green hit it for those scriptures.
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  Speaker 2: Just Aiden. He got into it over tom By. So
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  Speaker 2: now we go through that. But but but thank you
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  Speaker 2: for even for seeing that it could be something that.
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  Speaker 1: Because it's something that we don't have, king and it's
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  Speaker 1: also something that is needed. You know what I've seen
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  Speaker 1: over the past three years that I traversed his country
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  Speaker 1: with my tour Just He'll Brou with four of my brothers,
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  Speaker 1: Lemon Rucker, doctor Joel, Doctor O'shan, Lawrence Ajah, and I
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  Speaker 1: called their name because what we did was was was historical.
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  Speaker 1: It was the first mental health tour for black men.
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  Speaker 1: From the book that I wrote, Just He'll bro and
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  Speaker 1: I had a vision of it becoming a tour and
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  Speaker 1: seeing what it could do for men. But it was
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  Speaker 1: in the process that I saw men desired this. For
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  Speaker 1: three years, thirty three cities, eighteen thousand men that we reached,
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  Speaker 1: and one of the things that I was really challenged
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  Speaker 1: with is that when I ended the tour in November
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  Speaker 1: is I was like, man, God, I don't know what
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  Speaker 1: to do with this, but I want to see something
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  Speaker 1: else done where men can continue to see that their
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  Speaker 1: space is created for them. And that's what Den of
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  Speaker 1: Kings is doing. It's creating space for us. Because when
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  Speaker 1: you talk about not having conversation with family and not
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  Speaker 1: having conversation around you know, individuals that made it feel
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  Speaker 1: like home, is a part of what you do on
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  Speaker 1: the Den of Kings. Is that part of your healing journey.
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  Speaker 2: I'm quite sure that there are effects of healing, but
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  Speaker 2: that was not the modus operandi, that that wasn't the
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  Speaker 2: agenda for then. It's more than anything, it was all
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  Speaker 2: about the idea of men coming to other and having
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  Speaker 2: conversations that really really felt like in the moment and
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  Speaker 2: the camera was a spy in the room, that we
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  Speaker 2: were authentic and true to just the moment of conversation
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  Speaker 2: that a camera just happened to catch. Yeah, reversus a
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  Speaker 2: production of a show. Yeah, And so I hope it
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  Speaker 2: looks like that. It translates to that it appears like
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  Speaker 2: it has, and that's a blessing in itself. So now
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  Speaker 2: I'm cursure there's going to be residue of healing moments.
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  Speaker 2: But I think more than anything, it's all about just
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  Speaker 2: curating content and platforms that just speak in spaces that
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  Speaker 2: have not had a chance to amm a voice.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel that because the tour, we didn't do
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  Speaker 1: a lot of video because I didn't want the men
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  Speaker 1: to ever feel like they were being exploited. And then
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  Speaker 1: there were no women allowed, and we average anywhere from
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  Speaker 1: three to six hundred men. And when I sat at
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  Speaker 1: the table the Den of Kings, I often had men
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  Speaker 1: who weren't able to attend the just He'll row events.
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  Speaker 1: They often was like, man, what is it like? And
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  Speaker 1: I think what you're doing is you allowing other men
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  Speaker 1: to see what it's like that didn't have that experience
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  Speaker 1: of sitting around the table but then not knowing what
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  Speaker 1: it feels like to even have community. Yes, because in
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  Speaker 1: that moment that we're sitting there eating, community is happening.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, And I think that man feed off
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  Speaker 2: of community's I think that we're always looking for connecting points.
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  Speaker 2: I think that's why sports is always such a big unifier,
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  Speaker 2: and it's the thing that has no bias, no prejudice,
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  Speaker 2: no confrontational aspect at the fundamental core of what it
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  Speaker 2: is now. I never played sports, but I can tell you,
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  Speaker 2: even as a grown man, I see the fraternities that
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  Speaker 2: men naturally build through sports that I envy, Like like
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  Speaker 2: when I when I watch men that they either played
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  Speaker 2: sports or then and the sports, there's an unspoken language
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  Speaker 2: and rhythm that men have their reactions to things. They're
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  Speaker 2: engagement with things, where for me, somebody who's a creative,
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  Speaker 2: and I've always been a creative my whole life, I
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  Speaker 2: don't speak that language at all, Like I don't always
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  Speaker 2: know the hype of certain things. So for me is
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  Speaker 2: a man being adopted by a woman. I see the
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  Speaker 2: deficiencies that I have that I envy from communities that
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  Speaker 2: men have had. It's because you know, most men that
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  Speaker 2: have lifelong friends it came through sports. They played sports
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  Speaker 2: together in junior high, high school. So you know, like
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  Speaker 2: you don't see a lot of friends that came up
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  Speaker 2: playing the piano with each other and my dog play violin.
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  Speaker 2: It's sister great. You know, it just doesn't happen. It's
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  Speaker 2: not the same nature of fraternity show. A lot of
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  Speaker 2: that natural matriculation didn't happen in the ecosystem that I
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  Speaker 2: just matured in.
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  Speaker 1: As a creative. I had the opportunity to play sports
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  Speaker 1: and to be a creative And that was the hardest
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  Speaker 1: thing for me when it was over, which over football?
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  Speaker 1: Is that locker room, man, It's all about the locker room, man.
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  Speaker 1: It was the brotherhood. It was it was knowing that
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  Speaker 1: I may not agree with my brother's view on life
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  Speaker 1: or anything else, but man, when we cross those stripes, man,
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  Speaker 1: I mean you would you would put your life on
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  Speaker 1: the line for this. Dude. Man, we wouldn't have you know,
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  Speaker 1: you weren't gonna drink no beer, you ain't gonna eat
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  Speaker 1: no dinner with all of your teammates. But there was
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  Speaker 1: this common goal and that was this objective that winning
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  Speaker 1: was the outcome that we were working towards. So it
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  Speaker 1: was it was missing, you know, training in the heat.
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  Speaker 1: You know, it was missing you know getting up at
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  Speaker 1: five o'clock, you know, five o'clock in the morning and
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: working and then trying to outwork each other. You know.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: When I played arena ball, I came in as a
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  Speaker 1: rookie an arena league, and there was a guy, most
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  Speaker 1: of the guys that just they had been cut from
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  Speaker 1: the NFL. And so at this time, Arena was his
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  Speaker 1: fundamental lead. And this guy played seven years and he
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  Speaker 1: was twenty seven. I came in at like twenty two
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  Speaker 1: years old. I went undrafted and the coach brought me in.
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  Speaker 1: I got brought in on a two day contract, and
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  Speaker 1: I remember, like yesterday he said, you better come in
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  Speaker 1: and you better do your thing other than that, I'm
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  Speaker 1: sitting your ass home. This is what the coaches said.
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  Speaker 1: He was like, you better come in. I'm sitting you home,
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  Speaker 1: and now you ass home. Yeah, well is different sitting
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  Speaker 1: in you home. I'm spending your asshole. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't feel no love
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  Speaker 2: in that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And so it shifted something in me because I
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  Speaker 1: went undrafted and this was my other opportunity that was
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  Speaker 1: still connected to football and still connected to the NFL.
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  Speaker 1: So it's like this is the only way that you
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  Speaker 1: get back that was part of me. Like, man, I'm
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  Speaker 1: not ready to give up what the locker room provided
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  Speaker 1: for me. So I went in there and went crazy.
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  Speaker 1: I ended up they end up signing me and cutting
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  Speaker 1: the guy that because we were playing the same position.
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  Speaker 1: But when I thought about what I was not ready
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  Speaker 1: to give up. I had to ask myself why it
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  Speaker 1: was the only place that I felt accepted. Yeah, and
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  Speaker 1: I don't think we talk enough about men needing to
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  Speaker 1: feel belonging, acceptance. And even with our counterparts women, I
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  Speaker 1: don't think they realized how important that it is.
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  Speaker 2: They have no idea. And I feel the same way
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  Speaker 2: on stage or in the studio that I am my
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  Speaker 2: most natural self in those states. That it's very it is.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: It's very hard for me to learn the rhythm of normalcy.
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  Speaker 2: It's difficult, it's diffic It's because normalcy for me, just
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  Speaker 2: normalcy doesn't move enough, like I gotta have movement in normalcy.
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  Speaker 2: A lot of times demands you to be normal all
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  Speaker 2: you talking, you know. And so I find myself in
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  Speaker 2: the the duality of reality, where where who I am
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  Speaker 2: and what I do conflicts with the realities of often where
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  Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be. And I'm fifty five years old
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  Speaker 2: and still have not mastered that space yet. Like I
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: was in my therapist. I call my therapist yesterday evening
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  Speaker 2: and I said, Hey, I need to come in for
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: for session this morning. And I was with my therapist
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  Speaker 2: who's been my therapist for many, many, many years, incredible. God,
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  Speaker 2: you know it's it's because I need those checkups. Is
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  Speaker 2: because when I'm in Europe. I just came from Europe,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, every night I'm in front of thousands
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  Speaker 2: of people, and I was in Europe when America was
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: having this racial moment with Charlie Kirk, you know, And
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  Speaker 2: so I'm in Europe watching America look like it's burning
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  Speaker 2: and having all these conflicting emotions and feelings because I'm
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  Speaker 2: watching the responses and the attitudes and everything of people.
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  Speaker 2: And I wasn't even I wasn't even aware of who
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  Speaker 2: charing to Kirk was until that moment. And so you
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  Speaker 2: know that that's not normal. These these moments are not normal.
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  Speaker 2: And then you know, I'm in five different countries. I'm
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  Speaker 2: standing in front of white European people watching America had
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  Speaker 2: this tension. And then I fly home and I'm supposedly normal.
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  Speaker 2: Slot to ask, Slot to ask, like, can you imagine
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  Speaker 2: and this illustration always yeah, Doc, can you imagine Mike
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  Speaker 2: Tyson at his height when Mike Tyson was knocking his
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  Speaker 2: out right, I'm telling like, you remember how much of
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: a monster Mike was, like right, right, right, and like
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  Speaker 2: you'll know how much of a just an assassin he was.
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  Speaker 2: Can you imagine him having a fight on a Sunday
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  Speaker 2: knocking heads off, and that next Monday morning he got
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: to be in a pt ain't beating with his kid.
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  Speaker 2: Can you imagine what type of mental psychological shift from
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  Speaker 2: being an assassin that Monday. But his wife is expecting
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  Speaker 2: him to be in that ptain't meeting and be normal
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  Speaker 2: because he is a father too, So he's got that
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  Speaker 2: responsibility and he's going to be judged on how good
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: he is in these different worlds. But these worlds are
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: polarizing spaces, and he's going to be judged and held
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  Speaker 2: accountable to be good at both m.
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  Speaker 1: I'm tearing up part on nothing.
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  Speaker 2: I don't do that.
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  Speaker 1: When there's a moment that that it's profound, I have
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  Speaker 1: to tear up a card man. So when I tell
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  Speaker 1: you that is the war that I don't think people consider.
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  Speaker 2: Especially women in our lives, especially the women in our lives,
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  Speaker 2: it's because it's a perfect picture, and it is the
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  Speaker 2: perfect picture example of the duality of reality that that
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: that we are expected to win in at at at
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: both times. But really those are two different people the
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: mic that need to be in the ring and the
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: mic they need to be the pizzaman. Those are not
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: the same people.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Not the same people, and you can't even think the same.
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  Speaker 1: The thought process is a completely different. Yes, I was
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  Speaker 1: just telling a friend of mine as and it's funny
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: that you're sharing that that as you were watching the
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: world from your last night. I flew back from New
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: York and I was on a boat last night with
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: three hundred European people talking to them about two of
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: their close friends and two of the construction owners of
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: their employees who had took their life and died by suicide. Jeez,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I'm on this boat, Kurt, and I'm feeling a ways
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: because I said to them that whether you're red or blue,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: black or white, mental health is life in motion. But
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: the challenge is I'm giving life and to people who
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: don't look like me, people who don't believe like me,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: who don't think like me, And in that moment, I
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: am expected to meet them where they are because there's
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  Speaker 1: an expectation, yes, sir, And the expectation is that Doc
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: you got to meet us in a buddy of minds
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: was with me and he said, Jay, I've seen you
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: speak in a lot of different rooms. I'm interested in
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  Speaker 1: how you're going to work this room.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Which could be unfair to you because it's like, are
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: you expecting me to fail? Are you expecting me to win? Like?
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  Speaker 2: What is the nature of your expectation?
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: And when I grabbed that mic, there was a lot
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  Speaker 1: of chatter because at the time, it's like a handful
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  Speaker 1: of black folks and my buddy and a few people
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  Speaker 1: that I know that came to support and they're standing around,
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  Speaker 1: and it was the oddest thing because it's like all
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: these white folks on the boat. I'm thinking, man, this
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: cannot be Titanic too. I'm thinking that, But then I'm
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: also thinking, like, man, how do I engage with them?
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  Speaker 1: And the moment that I grabbed the mic, what I
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: realized is what humanity is for all of us, the
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: process of navigating life's trials and tripulation that whether rich
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: or poor, black or white, gay or straight, no matter
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  Speaker 1: what your belief system or what your social economic life
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: is going for all of us.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and our species does not give each and every
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  Speaker 2: individual the grace that they may need to figure out
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  Speaker 2: how to do the journey. It's almost like we expect
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  Speaker 2: people to land and automatically know and know that but
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: but but but but our knowing is also mixed in
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: with her learning, So I may stumble, I may make mistakes.
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  Speaker 2: So like, one of the biggest challenges I think that
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: has been even with Western Christianity, is that we expect people.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: We expect people to learn a certain level and a
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: certain acumen of faith where they're learning the faith. Like,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: you can't expect for me to be a five a
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: a what is called a five michelan aim a chef,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: my first time in the kitchen, you know, like I'm
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: going to be in the process. You know, you can't
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: expect from me to be a super saint just because
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I rock with Jesus. It's like and then unfortunately, sometimes
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: most of us we have to try to grow while
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: the camera is on, while the spotlight is on. And
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: that's subjective. I'm not talking about celebrity. Like it could
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: be the spotlight of your kids, it could be the
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: spotlight of your mom in law, it could be the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: spotlight of of your coworkers. That a lot of us
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: are expected to win and know automatically while we're being watched,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: and the level of performance anxiety that that can create
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: in humans. So I think what is the biggest addition
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: to our mental health is the lack of grace for
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: the human condition. Yes, it is. It is so disappointing,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: and especially for us as people of color, the the
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: the harsh expectation and judgment when we don't get it
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: right from our own ads to mental health, because my nigga,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: everybody trying, We trying. I'm trying to get to Jesus.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get to mintal health. I'm trying to
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: get to the bag. I'm trying to get to the kids.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get to wifey. I'm trying to get
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: to my old health. I'm trying to get to the doctors.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: So you can put the little glove on. Have me
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: bend over and made me feel a little comfortable to say, Carl,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do it, but I know I
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: got to do it because my people are dying of that.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. It's like I'm trying, and
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I think that this lack of grace and not realizing
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that we're all trying. Trying.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Man, that's a word.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: How cool to judge somebody in the midst of their tribe.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna let that sick king, because I can feel
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: that in this moment. I was on the plane flying
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: back and that was my prayer to God and I
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: text CJ and he could pick up my energy and
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: he says, what's going on? I said, Bro, I want
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: to quit this healing stuff. And I said, I feel
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: this unfair. Yeah, because I'll show up in space is
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: king and I can't beat J. Doc.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: What is the word for today?
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Doc? Can you make me feel better? Doc? Can you
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: give me some insight? Doc? Can you give me perspective?
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: And I'm sitting on a plane and I'm saying, God,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I need some insight right now because I'm trying.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I have been on planes and I said this
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: on one podcast on if we saw it on lou
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Young's pod, because that's bro. I've been on planes and
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: people have gotten on planes and will see me and
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: they will say, oh, I know this plane is gonna crash.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: We got God on this plane. And I'm thinking where
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: he at? Where got at? Christians? Dollar Christians dotald planes.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: It's like this, this expectation that this plane is gonna
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: be it's gonna survive. Bok Up, I'm on it all
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: that kind of preser you know, you know or or
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: or or like for people to say that's stopping them. Awn, Yo, man,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: will you pray for me? And I'll say yes, I've
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: been with that too, But I just need for you
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: to know your prayers are heard just like mine. But
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: as human and even since the beginning of mankind, we
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: have always made idols out of those we think are
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: oracles of God. We always have.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: How does how does that make you feel? Man? When
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you when people walk up to you about asking a
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: prayer as if your prayer is better and and that
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: God is not hearing them because they're not where you at,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: how does it make you feel?
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: At times? They can give me anxiety, you know? And
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: then it just sometimes hurts me for the human condition
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: that we are naturally wired to believe that before God
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: we're not good enough, because that's that's really the language.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: That's a saying I know I'm not good enough and
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I know he is, but I know he is, and
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: they don't realize that I just got off the same
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: toilet seat she did. I just finished shaking at the
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: toilet like you just finished shaking. I just finished burping
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: a passing gas like you did like just because you
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: may not see my dirt, do main there ain't none.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: And I just wish, I wish there was a way
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: to free people to know that the God that believes
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: in them believes in all of them, and that there's
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: never a time. Listen. I have kids, I have a
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: son that I don't agree with everything he does, and
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: he breaks my heart in the hurstry. But guess what,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: his last name is still Franklin. That don't change his name.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: What he does does not change who he is. He's
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: still a Franklin. And I just won't. I need for
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: people to understand that no matter what you do wrong,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: God doesn't take back. He created too hm and he
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: never will. He never will. So at that moment, you're
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: always good enough when you accept His son as your
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: personal savior. My nigga, the chop is done. It's done.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: It's done. It's done, it's done.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: And but you know, the enemy's job, Kurt, is to
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: pulverize and to get you to not think that you
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: are enough.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, and what.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: I see, particularly for people of color, I'm the son
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: of a pastor. My father's a pastor a Baptist church,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: and I can remember as a kid. The amount of
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: people who because in the South they call you reverend
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: you or.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Rare you know, or doc god doc he had been
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: to no school, ain't been to no school, and ain't
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: been to no school. You can listen and I could
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: just think, agree up there ridden a crayon, you know what?
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Well more? And why don't they ever use their whole
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: first name? Doctor A. E. Johnson, the doctor C. B. Smith.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: It's like you embarrassing your name. But you know it's like,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: you know, like, don't nobody use their person and not
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: better use your first name, the name Craig, Say Craig Craigs,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: that are doctor C. B. Jackson? No, my name, your
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: name Craig, Craig Jackson, any flight Craig.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: And so I can remember how he was pulled in
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: all of these different directions. And I think the most
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: difficult thing that that I've seen as my father has
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: age is he had this high level of spirituality but
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: a very low level of his individuality.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Man, I don't think my father really knew who he
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: was outside of being a pastor. Like I'm the conversation
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: that I'm having now with him in his sixties, they're
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: so spaced out and it's hard for him to even
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: listen as a father because he only knows how to
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: respond to rev.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And that's that generation of Black church culture.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: And so my question for you is what was the
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: turning point for you? Or if there was, how did
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: you navigate on and maybe you still try and how
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: did you navigate on the performer and the man?
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, when I get that right, I'll come back. When
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I get that right, I'll come back.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh no, I love it. Oh no, I don't
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: know if you ever. It's because they're so intertwined. That said,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: they are so much part of the DNA of who
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: you are are that that when you are passionate and
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: committed to your craft, that you don't know a lot
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: of times when the lions are like you. Hear Denzel
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: talk about how it took months for him to get
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: the character of Malcolm X outside of his body because
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: he embodied that character so much. You hear how actors
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: transform themselves, but sometimes it drives them crazy because they
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: became so much of that. You hear about Heath legendary
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: before he was Bedford took his life. How when he
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: played the Joker, How playing that character almost took him out.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: And I just think that it is very difficult to
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: want to be committed to a high level of your
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: craft and turn that off and on. And I think
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: you see it in athletes. I think that when you
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: hear Kobe and when you hear Kobe and how he
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: was so committed and how but at the same time
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: you hear how he was a butthole, right, you know,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: or you hear how Jordan was, you know, an a
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: hole you know. But these are highly, highly functional men
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: that succeed at levels that we aspire. So the thing
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: that we like about them mosto becomes the thing that
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: we hate about them. Here it is, and I don't
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: know how, once again, how we manage our expectations. Like
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: you see how brutal the sport of football is, but
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: then you give a nineteen twenty yard kid millions of
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: dollars to play it, his health is not going to
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: be the first thing on his mind. But then when
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: something happens, how disposable they are. So you know, it's
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: I think that we contribute to the asset that people
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: fall into when it even burns their own skin, is
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: because we are purveyors of it, and we're warriors of
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: watching them either succeed or self destruct or both. At
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: the same time, you were great at your sport, but
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: now you can hardly walk and all of those cheers
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: can't fix those needs that are banged up. So you know,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: it is a very it is a very difficult conundrum
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: that can be It can be it can be a
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: time hypocritical, it can be dysfunctional one at the same
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: time beautiful.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost oxymorantic.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Always always, and that's what greatness has always been born at, right,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: It has always been in the tension of both. You know,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: it's I think that great people live in tension. So
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: what has to happen is when it comes to mental health,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: you have to also be be proactive and understanding that
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: sometimes the high highs and low lows it exists in
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: people that are highly functional that we have to have
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: the tools already going in. Like what I try to
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: do is because I struggle with highighs and lowers because
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I am I'm a dog when it comes to work,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I'm a dog. I'm a dog. A new artist will
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: never be be being in a student. I'm gonna be
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: there before you and be there after you. You're not gonna
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: sign more autographs. You ain't gonna kss more babies. You
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: ain't gonna shake more heads. You ain't gonna say thank
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: You're not gonna do more interviews than me. You're not
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: gonna be in a sessions longer than me. You're not
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: gonna take as many takes as me because I'm a dog,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: because I can't afford to not be liked. I'm driven
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: by my trauma, but I've learned to drive it there.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: I don't drive it into alcohol. I'm driving in the
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: drug because it's gonna go somewhere. Come and everybody pray
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: it away. No, my make shure. If you've never had it,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: you don't realize it. Some thorings you live with. Some
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: thorns you can't pray away. Listen, one of my heroes
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: theologically said, whatever pushes me to my knees is.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Good my God today.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: When not my God today, c J, I'm out of
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: call my God today. When I tell you you have
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: just given me language to be a survivor of two
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: suicide attempts to know what it's like to look death
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: in the face. There was a season, and I can
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: talk this with you because we understand not only just
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: the hermoneutics, but also biblically and spiritual warfare. I remember
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: a season king where there were evil spirits that would
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: circle my bed every night, and I can hear them saying,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: we're going to kill them. And this lasted probably about
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: a year, and I would go to bed terrified, and
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: I can them when they were coming well, and I
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: can feel their presence, and I would just pray, just
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: pray and pray and pray. And to be on this
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: other side sharing that, because to be on the other side,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: why I don't have warfare. That's also the thing that
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: drives me to pour and to help others heal.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So when you just said the trauma drives you,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: because as a part of me, and I'm just being
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: so transparent, there's a part of me that's afraid to
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: be back in that space because it's somewhere, because it's
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: going to go somewhere. And that is the hardest thing
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: that even as I stood on that ship last night
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: and these white men are saying, hey, brother, you touch me,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: because it wasn't so much that I looked like them,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: it was that I feel what you feel.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah, and
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the problem is, if most men will admit it, seven
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: to eighty percent of our time is probably we're afraid.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: We're scared scared. We're scared we're not gonna have the money.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: We're scared of having a retirement. We're scared we're gonna
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: get an erection. We're scared, we're not gonna be able
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: to survive. We we we're scared we're not gonna be
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: able to We're scared of having a stroke, We're scared
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: of having a heart attack, We're scared of having cancer.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: We're scared our wives are not going to levels at
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: the end of the real lust that we were, we're
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: we're we're scared of the secret struggles. We're scared. We
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: we live our lives in fary privately, and it comes
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: out in this in this toxic masculinity, because the truth
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: is inwardly we are scared, and the fear is erased
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: when you can finally get the microphone and another man
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: looks at you, dead in the face and say to you,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: me too. H. There's something about healing and community when
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: you know you not alone, sir, That alone is your medicine.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Does healing when you know you not alone, because most
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: men think they're the only ones going through this, And
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: especially when you're pregnant with purpose, especially, you ain't never
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: You ain't never seeing a woman deliver a baby and
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: she in hospital, smoking cigarettes and just and not eating
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: for Frido chips and just chilling. She is an agony
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: pushing giving life to something is always going to be
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: connected with the death of something else. Ain't nobody chilling
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: giving babies. They ain't nobody to send around whistling and
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: having fun. And you ain't never seeing a woman just
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: comfortable giving a baby. She is in agony, almost facing
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: death herself. So what a lot of men feel when
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: they're on the edge of that despair and that emotion
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: and that anxiety they have given so much of themselves.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Just a me too. It's therapeutic and healing.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Because you just gave me my me too moment, because
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I could feel this purpose. I can feel this thing,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: and I've ran from it, and I've run from it,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: and I know that it's healing. I know that it
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: is cathartic. I know that it is freeing and liberating
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: for so many men. But I'm sitting on the plane
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: and I'm saying to God, what about me? And the
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: thorn is often that you are healing while bleeding at
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: the same time, because while I'm free in this, there's
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: something that still has me bound that I am wrestling
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: not with letting it go, but it has a hold
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: on me.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: And anybody great does anybody great does it? It is
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: an insult to greatness the thing that comfort will be included.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: It's an insult to greatness. Like you always see the
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: new people in the gym. You can always tell the
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: people of the gym that are new. They don't have
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: the commitment there. There are there the sweats and the
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: warm ups and a headbance all match. Everything is cool,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the shoes are clean and pretty, and they get on
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: the treadmill five ten minutes and get out who you
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: know and and they want to wrong when you go
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: to the gym and people that hit on the match
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: and then to look at cute like you know what
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, like real, you know where, you know where
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: you care about? No fashion, But people that go to
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: gym and fashionable are always one that are least in
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: shape because the external is more important for them than
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: the internal. But them internal wars. Those are the people
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: that are giving birth to greatness. If you not struggling,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: I would say you're not great. If you're not struggling,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: or if you're not struggling, you have not yet tapped
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: into your greatness. Because the seed of greatness is inside
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: of every human it's inside of every human being. But
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: they're not willing to pay the price to lay in
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: that bed and give delivery and be uncomfortable. That's why
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: everybody sits on the bench, because nobody wants the price
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: of being uncomfortable. That's why that's why you can be
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: afraid of your trauma. You gotta embrace the unrealities. You've
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: got to be able to embrace the tension and the
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: problems and the pain is because anybody that has ever
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: overcome anything has never had a first class ticket to
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: get there. It is the pain of coach, it's the
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: pain of spirit of airlines. It's losing your luggage, it's
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: losing your mouths, it's losing your mind. The insanity. Yeah yeah,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: so men, men just need to be comfortable and to
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: be able to have the village. And we've got to
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: get rid of the comfort of our own masculinity and
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: the byble. Say like I was going through something and
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: one of my mentors, I found out that he was
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: going through something too, And what hurt me was he
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: never let me know that he was going through it too,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: that he has no idea how healing it could have
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: been for me. And he got to tell me all this business,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: but to just be able to look at me and say, son,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: me too, I know how you feel just that alone
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: because men beat themselves us up. We beat ourselves up,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: and we beat ourselves up, and we just need somebody
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: to be able to say to us. I got like
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: my therapist, like today when I was in therapy and
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: I and I was laying all my junk out and
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: I said, and he's also a Christian, but you know
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: of course he's PhD. And I said, and when I
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: when I finished, I said, how am I doing? I
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: always want to know how am I doing? It's because
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I need to know from him how am I doing?
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Because I don't want to talk myself well if I'm
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: still sick. Come on, see what I'm saying, like, because
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: you know, when you go to therapy you're getting it
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: all out and I don't want to talk well, but
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: I'm still sick, So I need somebody to be able
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: to channel back to me when I'm saying and when
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: I'm giving back, because I want to know how am
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: I doing, because I need to know where I'm landing.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: So let me take that moment to excel this. This
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: is this is therapeutic, this is healing that it's almost
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: like and I knew that this encounter with you and
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: this session and discussion would be what it is because
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: of the way the enemy fought my mind today because
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Bro I was on the plane texting CJ and I'm like, Bro,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: I quit man well because I can feel God expanding me,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I can feel them stretching me. I can feel him
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: calling me higher in what I do for men and
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: for people, and I'm saying to him, I don't want
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: to go this big. Let me stay here, And not
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: because I'm afraid of big, but oftentimes I'm afraid of
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: the responsibility that comes with big.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Let me tast I'm kink. If people could really see
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: and the majority of my career, if they could have
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: seen my if they could have seen my bank account,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: it would be embarrassing. The amount of money that people
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: don't know I really don't have because I haven't vested
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: so much into my dreams. You have no idea, You
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: have no brother, if you if you knew, and then
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: because we we we're in a culture of fake it
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: till you make it. I still got a little rob boy.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Wife has still got to be whooped to whoop to whoop.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: The kids can't look like they from Ethiopia with the
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: big ballet. You know what I'm saying. It's like, you know,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: everybody's still got to have a little drip. And it's like,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: you know, you robbing Peter to pay Paul, You're for
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: the RS somebody, Hey, hey, hey, I promise I'm gonna
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: get it to you. Let me get on a payment plan.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Will you know what I'm saying, It's like you you
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: do man. People have People have no idea what it
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: costs to even to even not whining, but just to try,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: just to try. Whoso Oh I would be embarrassed if
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: most of my career people sell my bank account. Oh yeah,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I've invested so much money to trying, just trying. Oh money, damn.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know why that was moving around. She's like,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: we can't afford again. It's because I don't want her
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: to feel Yeah, it becomes still a man, and I
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: can't say no if she wants something, because that's what
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: men do. Men say yes.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Even when the yes hurts.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: When they yet serve. So let me go jump on
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: another stage. Let me go do something just to make
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: sure that they don't feel nothing while I'm still drinking,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: while I'm still trying. Ain't even one yet, ain't even
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: it even came to fluition, but just to pay to try,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: just to try, Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. It's
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: all part of mental health. It's all part of the journey.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: And God is so good because in that he's with us,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: He's with us, he's with us, He's with us. And
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: when you think you losing your mind, I remember two
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: years ago, this whole thing came up by my father
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: and me finding out what God. You know, one nigga
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: I told my father, ain't the negatives my father. The
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: other nag was my father, and was like, I don't
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: mean nothing. Your niggas be my father. You know what
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I'm saying. And I remember walk working on that project
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: and being in the studio and I spent the night
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: that night, and I have a gun that was on
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: the side of my bed that I keep on studio
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: by myself, and it was a night that I was
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable having that gun by me. I was uncomfortable. I
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: felt the anxiety and the little depressed, you know, I
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: was just uncomfortable psychologically. I could feel I was uncomfortable
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: being by myself with a gun. And I called my
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: homeboy and I said, hey, man, come to the studio
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: and come get this gun. Just come get it, keep
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: it on you for a minute. He came and we
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: walked outside of the night. I got some bed. You know,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: I did my breathing exercises. It's because but but but
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: all of that is happening in the middle of giving
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: birth to something. Or you're most vulnerable when you're giving
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: birth to something, to something. Oh man, I can't tell
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: how many payment plans I've been with iris, just trying
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: to keep people paid, just trying to keep money flowing
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: while you trying. Why are you trying? The Price to Try?
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: And that's a book, The Price to Try.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I had a book title man.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, sir.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Man, brother, when I tell you have some better than me,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: the weight that has just lifted from me, just from
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: you sharing. We not only watched your career, but we
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: just watched like I remember when God's Property came out.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I think I was in high school and and Stump
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: was out. And just to hear, you know, the criticism
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: around the sound and around the creativeness and all of
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: those different things, and to see that you're still here.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: During it at a high level, by the kindness of God,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: But I just want to say, Man, how proud I
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: am for you, Man for just continue the journey, because
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: as a black man, I often tell Bishop Jakes when
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: we're having our conversation, I said, Bishop, to see men
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: like yourself and to see men like you to continue
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: to do it at a high level as you have age.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: It's been a blessing. Yeah, to see you do it well.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: But what I have appreciated over the years is the
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: authentic versions that you've allowed us to see and to hear.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Because I didn't get to see who my father was
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: as a man, so unfortunate. You got to see what
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: caused the divorce. I got to see the different things
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: that we found out, but I didn't really get to
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: see it where he says, Son, these are my struggles, yeah,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: and have freeing that would have been man Son, This
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: is where I went wrong. Son, This is where I
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: could have done this different. You know, he get to
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: look at me now and get to share how proud
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: of he. You know how proud he is, and that's
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: been great. But what I have longed for for so
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: long is for a man to do what Jesus did
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: to the disciple. Show me where the holes are, yet,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: let me feel where the hole is. Let me see
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: the womb, because when I see the womb, I know
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: it's real. I know you real.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Did you ever hear that song under what you look
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: at for album? My second I'm so called. Let me
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: touch you and see if you were real. Even though
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: my heart I know your hands can heal, but sometimes
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: I get discouraged and I need your strength and hill, Jesus,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: let me touch you and see if you are real.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Sometimes to me you seem so far away, and I
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: wonder if I could just make it through the day.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: But if I can touch the hem of your garment,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: your power, I know I can feel. Jesus, let me
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: touch you and see if you are real. And I
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: do want to say that all the brothers, even in
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: that conversation a minute ago, just talking about the financial contribution,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: that you're making to yourself. Don't measure the payoff by
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: the ground, because it's easy to look at the GRAM
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: and see what other niggas are doing and see what
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: other niggs are having. Don't judge the payoff of your
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: the investment in you if it don't look like what
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: you see on the ground, because I promise you the
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: GRAM is full of filters. Those are filtered pictures. You
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: have no idea what's real behind that Pierson. So do
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: not set yourself up for fare and rejoice in the
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: little successes, the little winds, the little doves. Man, But
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: you invest in yourself. Celebrated, celebrate a little dub, celebrate
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: the beer. Buy yourself some socks, time give to the lord.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: Buy yourself some draws you may know, some new draws.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: You know your old draws too tight. Now you know
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying. You know your butt crack showing. You
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. Get you some new draws, you know,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: just some little winds, just to be able to encourage
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: yourself to fight, to keep fighting, see said every now
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: and then. Come on, If every now and then you
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: don't do something to just take a time out, you're
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: gonna have no energy. To fight, but every now and
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: then and take me what you know, go go go
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: get a stake, even if you can't even afford it,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: do it just to be able to get the energy
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: to go back there and keep investing. Come on, yeah,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: just take a time out to do something, just just
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: just just for a second. You may not ever to
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: go to the Bahamas, but but but you can go
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: to you can go to Lake Austin or something. You know,
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: just just just something to get the practice of what
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: the wind gonna look like. Sometimes you need win practice.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: That's good. You know what I'm saying. You need some
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: win practice. You know what I'm saying. Take take twenty bus,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: take one hundred dollars, take a thousand, take five hundred,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: and just do something. Just give you a taste of
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: what a win feel like, so that when you get
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: to the five thousand, it will overdo you and it
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: will drive you. You know what I'm saying, You'll be comfortable.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Come on, See, you got to be comfortable with the
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: five hundred, so that five thousand you won't be losing
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: your mind. So it's like, so the five thousand won't
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: mean that much, so it won't have you.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: You have it.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Come on, yeah, man, you gotta have that practice. You
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. And these are the good things
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: because most black men that have dadd is to teach them,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. For a lot of us,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: this is the first generation of winners, your first generation
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: of entrepreneurs, first generation of dreamers. Everybody in this room
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: is dreamers. A lot of people watching us a dreamers.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: So you gotta get the practice, you gotta get the person.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: One thing that was a demise to my career is
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: that when you see pictures of a young Beyonce and
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: she's in her mama's high heels and she got a
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: mama's brush and she's singing around the house, guess what
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: they're doing. They're grooming her to be great. But in church,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: if you in the mirroring, you're trying to do that.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Oh you out about yourself, stay humble. It ain't about you,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: so that if you do get it, you don't know
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: what to do with it because you never had practice.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: O my god, today, you.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Never had practice. You never had practice.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: And then you'll struggle with self sabotage and success as
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: it falls.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: It's so good because you never had practice. Never had practice, practice,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: practice winning. Practice with your five hundred dollars, practice with
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: your one hundred dollars, practice with your fably, practice winning,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: so that when it comes more it will overdo you.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: You'll be familiar with it and it won't be your God.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Brother, listen and see how quiet glory be to God Man,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Glory King came in here and cooked.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Glory be to God Man.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Oh glory, God cook sir dessert. I will tell y'all
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: get on to die because y'all full glory be to
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: God Man Man. In closing, always ask this question. Oh
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: you know, the name of the podcast shows just Heal.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that I remember my therapist
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: asking me was Jay, what does healing mean for you?
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: And at that time I said emotional freedom, to be
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: free within my emotions, to express them and to not
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: be incarcerated. And I want to ask you that question,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: what does healing means for you?
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Very quick on my tongue, because I live in it.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I heal as our, I heal as I reveal. Because
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: you have to participate in your own recovery. You can
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: go to the best doctor in the world. Every great
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: doctor has one thing in uniformity, that they say, tell
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: me where it hurts. Yep, you gotta participate. You gotta participate.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: That's so so quick to tell my business. That's what's
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: so quick to talk about my my my my losses
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: and my mistakes of my past, because it heals me. See,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: you can't use nothing against me that I already gave myself.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: I told it, You're to tell it. So I control
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: my narrative. Man, I control my narrative, and I control
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: the process of my healing because I'm gonna tell it.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: So I heal as I reveal, and it heals me.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: And I say this often, you can't heal what you hide, Yes, sir, yes, sir,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: and sir king black man, my brother, when I tell
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: you you have I don't even have a word to
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: describe what just happened here. I know this. I needed it,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: and I hope that you needed this as well. For
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: the men that are watching. My hope for you is
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: that you listen to this over and over and over
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: and over. I think it's so important for us allow
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: things to penetrate our spirit and to penetrate our minds. Scientifically,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: the heart sends more messages to the brain, more so
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: than the brains send messages to the heart. And what
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: am I saying with that a lot of our hearts
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: have been broken, and when you have a broken heart,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: the messages that are sent to your brains are fractured,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: and sometimes the messages are distorted. And what I'm hoping
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: through this episode that you're able to reframe. That's the
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: word we use in clinical term, and reframe is not
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: to change, but it's really to change the picture and
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: to change where the picture is being seen from. Because
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: I can look at something head on, but if I
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: change position, it looks different. And one of the things
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: that I often do with clients and I'll say, I'm
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: going to reframe this for you. I'm not changing your story,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: but I'll change your position in the story, so the
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: story doesn't necessarily look different, but your view of yourself
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: in the story shifts. So I'm hoping that there's a
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: shift that takes place when you listen to this episode
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: and when you watch it, and even for our women,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: because you just got to hear two men openly share
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: our journeys, our journeys of success, failures, our insecurities, our thoughts,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: and as my good brother said, I'll try because We're
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: all trying. Until next time, Kurt, I just want to say, brother,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: thank you. Was me dinner too? Oh well we was
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: in California. No, but I oh you dinner. But I'm
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: looking forward to breaking bread man and continue to build
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: on this friendship. Man, you were gonna have a way
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: that Louis now yeah? Are you? Yeah? For y'all that
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: don't know Louise, they used to have this what if
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: that crusted fish? Yeah? That it's a rectang rectang my god?
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Today did you like that? What? Man? That fish was banging? Man? Oh,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: that fish was banking. You put a little tart on
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: the top.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Oh man, it is In general, thank you for tuning
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: in and I share today. We really appreciate. Please chewing
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: in next time.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: But man, listen, thank you guys for tuning in to
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: another episode to just here with doctor J. This has
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: been phenomenal and I'm being transparent. I needed this today
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: because the headspace that I was in is that I
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: didn't know if I wanted to keep trying in this
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: space and not because I couldn't. But sometime it's heavy
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: because we can make things look light. Yeah, and doesn't
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: mean it that it is. And so until next time,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: remember healing is a journey and wholeness is the destination.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Just Heal with Doctor J, a production of the Black
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Effect podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: favorite shows. And you can follow me at King J.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: Barnett on Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Just Heal Doctor J.