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101. The Black Widows of Liverpool · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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Speaker 1: You're listening to an Airwave media podcast. Hello delicious friends,
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Speaker 1: and welcome to Hood and What Now the history podcast
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Speaker 1: That's not your history class with me your host Katie Charlewood,
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Speaker 1: history Harlotte and reader of books. I hope you had
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Speaker 1: a fantastic weekend. I clearly I did, as you can
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Speaker 1: tell from my lack of voice. Yeah, I was in
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Speaker 1: Belfast for La Fa la padrig of the Saint Patrick's Festival.
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Speaker 1: I was here my cousins, many of him, many of them,
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Speaker 1: two of whom I hadn't seen a like solid decade,
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Speaker 1: like a full ten years. See, a few years ago,
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Speaker 1: we actually made the decision that we were no longer
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Speaker 1: only going to see each other at funerals, because that
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Speaker 1: seems to be our main family social gathering, and you know,
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Speaker 1: in general, your social life shouldn't revolve around funerals unless
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Speaker 1: you're just you know, that level of goth and bereavements,
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Speaker 1: wakes and other such grieving opportunities are you know, just
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Speaker 1: your you know, fun times, love your best life. So yeah,
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Speaker 1: we decided we were no longer going to do that,
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Speaker 1: and so we were actively trying to like meet up
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Speaker 1: and do things. So we went to go away for
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Speaker 1: our cousin's fortieth and then we went to Belfast for
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Speaker 1: Patty's Day, and you know, we're just starting to go
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Speaker 1: about and actually do things. It was really funny because
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Speaker 1: my mum was asking me, like, you know, where many
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Speaker 1: people were like asking to take photos with you and
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Speaker 1: stuff in Belfast and I was like, no, I didn't
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Speaker 1: get recognized once nobody knew who I was, which is
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Speaker 1: fun because like again, I always get recognized in really
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Speaker 1: weird places and peop will come over to me and
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Speaker 1: talk to me, but like, yeah, not one person recognized
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Speaker 1: me at all the entire time, which is quite nice
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Speaker 1: but also we bit annoying. Would been cool for someone
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Speaker 1: to be like, hey, listen to your podcast. You're cool,
2:16
Speaker 1: but I know what you're thinking. You're thinking about your
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Speaker 1: gibber jabber in fact me, in fact you, I will,
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Speaker 1: but first we've got to get our source on. Our
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Speaker 1: sources are The Black Widows of Liverpool, a chilling account
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Speaker 1: of cold blooded murder in the Victorian city by Angela
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Speaker 1: Brabin Arsenic, and The Black Widows by the University of Liverpool.
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Speaker 1: Female Poisoners, an arsenical solution of fly papers unexampled cruelty
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Speaker 1: by the Tayahora News. We have articles from the Liverpool Echo,
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Speaker 1: the Liverpool Post and the Evening Daily Post. The UK
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Speaker 1: census eighteen sixty one, eighteen seventy one, eighteen eighty one,
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Speaker 1: and of course we have the Crime Museum dot org
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Speaker 1: ilesitting comfortably good. Then let's begin our sordid story starts
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Speaker 1: in Liverpool eighteen eighty four. And this Victorian port town
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Speaker 1: was hustling and bustling, and you know, you've got industrial
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Speaker 1: stuff going on that was very, very involved, wasn't it
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Speaker 1: industrial stuff? You've got the port, there's docs, there's always
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Speaker 1: something going on. And because it's an industrial town, and
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Speaker 1: because it is a port town, this Victorian city is
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Speaker 1: prime for immigration, employment, unemployment and poverty. Where is Liverpool? Oh, yes,
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Speaker 1: little slopburn quote for you there. The thing about Liverpool
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Speaker 1: as well is that if you travel west, like getting
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Speaker 1: a boat and go, you're going to hit Ireland. And
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Speaker 1: at this point, Ireland was still under British rule, and
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Speaker 1: in the eighteen eighties there had been an influx of immigration,
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Speaker 1: specifically from Ireland as a direct result of Angorta Moore,
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Speaker 1: the Great Hunger, which you may know as the famine,
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Speaker 1: so many Irish people settled in Liverpool, not only because
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Speaker 1: it was fairly close it was a short enough journey,
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Speaker 1: but because of the type of town it was. Because
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Speaker 1: it was industrial, because it was a port town, there
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Speaker 1: was more options for employment and opportunity and work and
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Speaker 1: this worked very well for a lot of people, to
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Speaker 1: the point now that within Liverpool today there is seventy
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Speaker 1: five percent of the population which has Irish heritage. And
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Speaker 1: back in the eighteen eighties there would be these clusters
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Speaker 1: of sort of Irish settlements within the city. And that's
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Speaker 1: the thing though, right if you move to somewhere somewhere
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Speaker 1: you don't know, like where do you go next to
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Speaker 1: someone who's just like you, like, And that's where like
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Speaker 1: these kind of areas would begin. That's why you would
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Speaker 1: have like Little Italy or so. It's because you go
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Speaker 1: to people that are part of your culture, people who
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Speaker 1: speak your language, and so within these areas you know,
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Speaker 1: this particular culture, they will become quite dense, which will
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Speaker 1: lead to some people being like, oh, we're being overrun.
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Speaker 1: It's like no, you're just in like the Irish part
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Speaker 1: of town, you know. And what's really interesting is the
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Speaker 1: way that the streets were built back then, so you
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Speaker 1: would have a street, and then behind those buildings there
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Speaker 1: would be smaller buildings. There would be these little houses.
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Speaker 1: These tended to be closer to the docks and they
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Speaker 1: were cheaper to live in. And then these sort of
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Speaker 1: boarding houses and rooming houses would just sort of prop
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Speaker 1: up into them. And these streets they were designed in
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Speaker 1: such a way that really, if you didn't know where
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Speaker 1: you were going, you could very easily get lost. But
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Speaker 1: if you've lived there for most of your life, well
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Speaker 1: then you know what you're doing. So you've got a
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Speaker 1: lot of people who are living in this area. They
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Speaker 1: most of them are, you know, migrants, and they've settled
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Speaker 1: or their second generation, and they become these communities. And
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Speaker 1: when you have these low income communities, when you have
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Speaker 1: people living in poverty. When you have poverty, you have
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Speaker 1: crime because sometimes it's not easy making an honest, loving
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Speaker 1: and so brings us, which brings us to the lynchpin
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Speaker 1: of our story, the suspicious death of one Thomas Higgins
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Speaker 1: in September of eighteen eighty three, the forty five year
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Speaker 1: old hod carrier gets severely ill. Now you may be
7:22
Speaker 1: wondering what a hod carrier is basically they transport building materials,
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Speaker 1: like they'll be carrying out bricks and other such heavy goods.
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Speaker 1: And so he was fairly fit, you know, forty five,
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Speaker 1: but still you know, strong and relatively healthy. And he
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Speaker 1: starts getting these like aggressive stomach patents and his wife
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Speaker 1: calls a doctor, doctor Whitford, and he comes in and
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Speaker 1: he checks him over and he's like, yeah, you've got dysentery.
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Speaker 1: I don't want ever to get dysentery dead. You'll never
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Speaker 1: have to worry about that son. He did, But yes,
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Speaker 1: Dr Whitford diagnoses him of having dysentery as a result
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Speaker 1: of drinking bad whisky. Now bear in mind that in
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Speaker 1: this era, the water isn't exactly the cleanest. You've got
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Speaker 1: like one fountain on the street and there's there's probably
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Speaker 1: faces in it. We're not gonna lie. Probably it's not
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Speaker 1: the healthiest of water. You've got run off from you know, factories,
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Speaker 1: and the dogs were not the safest place to be either,
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Speaker 1: and so there's a lot of stuff in the water.
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Speaker 1: So it was actually cleaner and safer to drink like
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Speaker 1: beer and whiskey than it was to drink water. But
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Speaker 1: Thomas did also like a bit of a temple because
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Speaker 1: you know, odd carriers, don't they all. And so he
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Speaker 1: ends up being diagnosed with this and the doctor prescribes
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Speaker 1: him opium and castor oil. Yes, cast roll, the thing
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Speaker 1: that everyone is saying is making your skin perfect. Now,
9:14
Speaker 1: maybe good, but maybe not the opium. Anyway, he gets
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Speaker 1: to prescribe this, but it doesn't help because two days
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Speaker 1: later Thomas has passed away, leaving behind a widow, Margaret Higgins,
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Speaker 1: and his surviving brother Patrick. Now Patrick has we be
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Speaker 1: in his bonnet because he's thinking, that's weird, that's suspicious
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Speaker 1: because Thomas, as we know, pretty healthy, pretty fit, pretty strong.
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Speaker 1: He's like he was lifting bricks like a few days before,
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Speaker 1: and you're telling me suddenly he's got dysentery. Like I know,
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Speaker 1: he wasn't the cleanest of people. But that's a bit much.
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Speaker 1: And so he goes and starts investigating because he's thinking
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Speaker 1: this whole situation is wills us. And so he goes
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Speaker 1: to an insurance broker, and then he goes to another
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Speaker 1: insurance broker, and then he goes to another one, and
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Speaker 1: all in all he discovers that there's a life insurance
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Speaker 1: policy sort of, it's not quite a life insurance policy.
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Speaker 1: It's a policy with a burial society, and there's a
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Speaker 1: good few of them. There's five in total. There were
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Speaker 1: five separate policies put with these burial societies, and the
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Speaker 1: benefactor of these burial societies, the person is going to
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Speaker 1: collect the money. Thomas's grieving widow, Margaret, with her coming
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Speaker 1: out with a profit of one hundred pounds, so in
10:54
Speaker 1: today's money, that's like fifteen grand, Like it's a good
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Speaker 1: chunk of change to life changing money. And so she's
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Speaker 1: about to get this massive payout because she's taken it
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Speaker 1: from all these different societies. And so after finding this out,
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Speaker 1: Patrick Higgins goes to a doctor explains his theory. His
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Speaker 1: doctor gets a corner and the doctor in the corner
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Speaker 1: head straight to Margaret's house where Thomas is being waked,
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Speaker 1: and it's the day of the funeral, and they are
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Speaker 1: rushing because it is a race against time at this
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Speaker 1: point because they are about to take the body and
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Speaker 1: they're getting ready for the funeral. So they make it
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Speaker 1: to the house just in time, and they perform an
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Speaker 1: autopsy right there in the house on Thomas's body, and
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Speaker 1: so the doctor in the corner they do these tests
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Speaker 1: and they take out the organs and the stomach contents,
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Speaker 1: and after some chemical analysis, it basically shows that Thomas
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Speaker 1: Higgins was a victim of arsenic poisoning. And so the
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Speaker 1: police are called and the moment you know, the sound
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Speaker 1: of the police start coming up to the house, Margaret's sister,
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Speaker 1: Catherine Flanagan, also a widow, straight up legs out the
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Speaker 1: door and disappears through these winding streets. Why did the
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Speaker 1: widow sister flee upon hearing that the authorities were coming. Well,
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Speaker 1: we're going to have to go back in time a
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Speaker 1: little bit. So in the eighteen sixties Catherine Flanagan was
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Speaker 1: living in Liverpool with her husband John. They would go
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Speaker 1: on to have two children, a boy and a girl,
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Speaker 1: John and Ellen, a gentleman's family. Some might say Catherine
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Speaker 1: and her younger sister Margaret had emigrated to Liverpool because, well,
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Speaker 1: probably because of angre toon more the famine. See there's
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Speaker 1: fourteen years between the sisters, with Catherine being born in
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Speaker 1: eighteen twenty nine and Margaret in eighteen forty three, so
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Speaker 1: they were both born just before the famine. Now I
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Speaker 1: will go into greater detail about the famine in another
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Speaker 1: episode specifically, just not this one. I don't have the
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Speaker 1: voice for it, lads now and Gorton Moore. The blight
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Speaker 1: especially started in eighteen forty five and ended about eighteen
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Speaker 1: fifty two, so both of these women were alive pre
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Speaker 1: enduring this and during this time there's like massimmog because
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Speaker 1: you know, people are starving, and needless to say, doubt
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Speaker 1: they had the easiest of lives. Doesn't excuse the shit
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Speaker 1: they do, but they didn't have the easiest of lives.
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Speaker 1: But by the eighteen sixties they are living in Liverpool
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Speaker 1: and Catherine is a beer housekeeper at this point, and
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Speaker 1: so a beer house was It's basically a pub, it's
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Speaker 1: a tavern, but it only sold sort of beer, sort
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Speaker 1: of fermented drinks. And it was in direct response to
14:41
Speaker 1: like the gin epidemic because everyone was drinking gin and
14:45
Speaker 1: the gin it was not regulated, so it wasn't great
14:50
Speaker 1: and so to combat that they had these beer houses,
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Speaker 1: and so she was a beer housekeeper. Now after this,
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Speaker 1: after eighteen seventy one, she's still registered as living with John.
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Speaker 1: Catherine's husband, John had passed away from pneumonia in eighteen
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Speaker 1: seventy nine, so the entire time that Catherine and Margaret
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Speaker 1: actually lived in Liverpool. They stayed within these sort of pockets,
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Speaker 1: these Irish areas, like this was their community and this
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Speaker 1: is where they stayed. So by the eighteen eighties, and
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Speaker 1: by the time we get to the eighteen eighties, Catherine
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Speaker 1: is a licensed broker. Now I want you to bear
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Speaker 1: in mind something as well. Margaret and Katherine are both illiterate,
15:41
Speaker 1: but Catherine has a number brain, like, she has a
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Speaker 1: brain for maths, like, she's a very wily woman. I
15:51
Speaker 1: feel like if she had like a proper education, she
15:55
Speaker 1: could have gone on to done some amazing things. But again,
15:57
Speaker 1: this is a woman in the past and is a
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Speaker 1: product of her environment in many ways. Again not negating
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Speaker 1: the bad stuff she's done, right, But she's a license broker,
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Speaker 1: and so she would broke her between sort of insurance
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Speaker 1: agents and sort of people getting policies, so she would
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Speaker 1: earn commission from that. So this commission would basically be
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Speaker 1: for a lot of people, like a year's worth of policy,
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Speaker 1: you know, and that's a good that's a good amount.
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Speaker 1: You know. She's making money of this, but she's also
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Speaker 1: running a rooming house. So by eighteen eighty Catherine and
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Speaker 1: Margaret are running a boarding house, a rooming house on
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Speaker 1: five Scurving Street, and this is near Scotland Road, which
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Speaker 1: ironically full of Irish people. So they're running these boarding
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Speaker 1: houses and people come in and out. You know, it's
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Speaker 1: a poverty driven area. It's probably one step above a flophouse,
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Speaker 1: like it's not it's not even the quality of a
17:14
Speaker 1: premiere in you know, I mean, but running a rooming
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Speaker 1: house near the docks, you know, is a fairly decent
17:22
Speaker 1: way to make a living. So in the boarding house
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Speaker 1: in Scarving Street, we have Katherine Flanagan, her younger sister Margaret,
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Speaker 1: Catherine's son John Flanagan, what do We're Thomas Higgins and
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Speaker 1: his daughter Mary what door, Patrick Jennings and his teenage
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Speaker 1: daughter Margaret. So they're all staying in this this boarding
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Speaker 1: house now because it's you know, a very poverty stricken area.
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Speaker 1: In the hygiene isn't the best. You've got colera, you've
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Speaker 1: got dysentery, you've got bronchial stuff, you know, anything that's
18:06
Speaker 1: going about. You know, there was a high chance you're
18:08
Speaker 1: gonna catch it, and you'll have illnesses that will go
18:12
Speaker 1: from room to room, and lots of like lodging houses,
18:16
Speaker 1: rooming houses, boarding houses, they will get like shut down
18:20
Speaker 1: and closed off because you know, disease spreads. So it
18:26
Speaker 1: wasn't uncommon in these working class areas. Further to be
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Speaker 1: like a high like level of fatalities either from you know,
18:36
Speaker 1: dangerous jobs because if you're working in the docks or
18:39
Speaker 1: you're you're working in industry, and then of course you've
18:43
Speaker 1: got injury and then illness, like there's a lot coming
18:47
Speaker 1: for you. So a lot of people would have a
18:51
Speaker 1: sort of a sort of life insurance, except it was
18:54
Speaker 1: for a funeral policy. So think about this area and
18:59
Speaker 1: this time you've got a massive amount of Irish immigrants,
19:03
Speaker 1: I mean you've got other people to but like people
19:07
Speaker 1: at this point in time are still very very religious,
19:11
Speaker 1: you know, very Christian, you know, super big fans of Jesus,
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Speaker 1: and a proper Christian burial is really really important to
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Speaker 1: these people, and they want to be able to afford that.
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Speaker 1: They don't want to chuck somebody in a bobber's grave, No,
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Speaker 1: they want like a good Christian burial. So regardless of
19:30
Speaker 1: whichever flavor of Christian you were, be it Anglican, Presbyterian, Catholic, whatever,
19:36
Speaker 1: like you needed to you know, rest in peace. So
19:41
Speaker 1: these burial societies were set up, I think originally by
19:44
Speaker 1: the Dutch, but like I'll double check that at some point.
19:47
Speaker 1: But these burial societies were set up and you would
19:51
Speaker 1: pay for a period of time so that you could
19:54
Speaker 1: then you know, get a payout if somebody passed away
19:58
Speaker 1: and you could afford to bury them. Now, a lot
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Speaker 1: of the times it would be the breadwinner of the family,
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Speaker 1: which is usually the man, the person who was making
20:08
Speaker 1: the most money. You would have a burial policy out
20:11
Speaker 1: on them because you know, you need to do that
20:16
Speaker 1: and you need to survive after that, so hopefully there
20:19
Speaker 1: would be some left over after the burial. Now, the
20:22
Speaker 1: way it worked was you were only supposed to have
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Speaker 1: one policy, like a per person and with one sort
20:30
Speaker 1: of burial society. But of course, where there is a will,
20:35
Speaker 1: there's a way, and so this may shock you, but
20:40
Speaker 1: some people took advantage of this system and they would
20:44
Speaker 1: apply to several different burial societies. But you need to
20:48
Speaker 1: be able to afford the outgoings first. So if you're
20:52
Speaker 1: paying one burrow society like two shillings and this one
20:57
Speaker 1: you know, ten pence and so on and so forth,
21:02
Speaker 1: you need to keep track of that. You need to
21:03
Speaker 1: have that in your mind, and you need to be
21:06
Speaker 1: able to follow your trail and know who you're paying
21:08
Speaker 1: when and what your payouts can it be. And in
21:12
Speaker 1: order to get a policy approved, there has to be
21:15
Speaker 1: like several people involved. So the first things first they
21:21
Speaker 1: need to approve it through a broker. The insurance agent
21:25
Speaker 1: needs to agree, and then you have to have like,
21:29
Speaker 1: once a person passes away, the doctor needs to say
21:33
Speaker 1: nof that it's a natural death or whatever kind of death,
21:36
Speaker 1: but like it can't be you know, murder, you know,
21:40
Speaker 1: And so that has to be approved in order for
21:44
Speaker 1: that to go back and get approved by the society
21:47
Speaker 1: in order to release the money. And depending on the
21:51
Speaker 1: type of policy, if it's a larger policy, then you know,
21:55
Speaker 1: the insurance agent needs to physically meet with the person
22:00
Speaker 1: he wants the policy. So if Big Jim over here
22:04
Speaker 1: is having a massive policy, the insurance agent's going to
22:07
Speaker 1: come over and meet him, make sure that it's all
22:11
Speaker 1: tipped up, and then take away. Just before Christmas in
22:16
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty, Catherine's twenty two year old son, John Flannagan
22:21
Speaker 1: starts getting these stomach pains and he's feeling really sick
22:26
Speaker 1: and ill, and he is telling everybody just how unwell
22:29
Speaker 1: he's feeling. And John was fairly healthy up until this point,
22:33
Speaker 1: fairly strong, fairly decent, but then just took this turn
22:38
Speaker 1: and he ends up getting really ill and then passes away.
22:45
Speaker 1: In order to bury her son, Catherine requires the money
22:48
Speaker 1: from the burial Society, and so the doctor comes over
22:52
Speaker 1: determines the cause of death as bronchitis. It's a natural death.
22:59
Speaker 1: You know, It's relatively vague, but there it is. And
23:04
Speaker 1: so Catherine goes and collects the sum of money, which
23:08
Speaker 1: is seventy pounds, which isn't today's money like five grand
23:13
Speaker 1: or something, maybe a bit more. And she's been paying
23:16
Speaker 1: it like for quite a while as well, so you know,
23:21
Speaker 1: it's not a huge I'm out leftover at the end,
23:25
Speaker 1: but there's not a decent chunk. Not long after the
23:28
Speaker 1: passing of her nephew, a Roman starts blossoming in the
23:33
Speaker 1: Scarving Street lodging house between Margaret and one of the borders,
23:39
Speaker 1: Thomas Higgins. The couple are married by eighteen eighty two.
23:45
Speaker 1: Sorry I said that Thomas Higgins was forty five. He
23:50
Speaker 1: was thirty six. He was a toy boy. Yes, he
23:55
Speaker 1: was thirty six, and he went for the older Margaret Biggins.
24:01
Speaker 1: Clearly there was something special there. So yeah, they start wooing,
24:07
Speaker 1: courting and eventually are wed. So they get married in
24:11
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty two, but that same year Margaret had actually
24:16
Speaker 1: spent time behind bars. She had been in prison for
24:21
Speaker 1: seven days for a drunkenness effectively. But they get married
24:27
Speaker 1: and she becomes stepmother to young Mary. So they get
24:32
Speaker 1: married in the October, and you know, before even it's
24:36
Speaker 1: Christmas of eighteen eighty two, Thomas's daughter becomes ill and
24:42
Speaker 1: she passes away and it's her stepmother, Margaret, that collects
24:47
Speaker 1: the burial society policy, all twenty two pounds of it.
24:52
Speaker 1: Now it did kids policy, so it's going to be
24:55
Speaker 1: smaller anyway. And yeah, it's it's actually weird to have
25:00
Speaker 1: a children's policy like some people had it. But for
25:04
Speaker 1: the most part, the policy was going to be paid
25:06
Speaker 1: on like someone older, someone who worked, you know, so
25:11
Speaker 1: that you could have that extra money children not so much.
25:17
Speaker 1: So she should have raised the red flag somewhere. But anyway,
25:23
Speaker 1: so they get their twenty two quid. Well, Margaret gets
25:26
Speaker 1: the twenty two quid and she's sipping some of it
25:29
Speaker 1: in the pub. So this is the end of eighteen
25:34
Speaker 1: eighty two. We go into eighteen eighty three and in January,
25:38
Speaker 1: Margaret Jennings, the teenager, she gets out very suddenly and
25:42
Speaker 1: she dies. And you'd think this would raise suspicions that,
25:47
Speaker 1: you know, some relatively healthy people have passed away in
25:51
Speaker 1: quick succession from weeld illnesses. No, nobody's picking up on this.
26:00
Speaker 1: Nobody thinks this is weird, well nobody yet. So Thomas Higgins,
26:10
Speaker 1: he's probably getting a wee bit wigged out at this point.
26:13
Speaker 1: You know, what's a death happening in this particular board?
26:17
Speaker 1: Ah fuck this for Game of Soldiers. Let's move out,
26:21
Speaker 1: and so him and Margaret they move into a cellar
26:24
Speaker 1: at twenty seven Ascot Street. I think Margaret's still a
26:28
Speaker 1: charlady at this point as well. So she's she's working,
26:33
Speaker 1: he's working, He's doing the odd carrying like they're busy people.
26:38
Speaker 1: And Catherine she moves to Latimer Street. So yeah, it's
26:43
Speaker 1: September eighteen eighty three, where Thomas and Margaret have separated
26:47
Speaker 1: from the household and they move into their own we
26:51
Speaker 1: dwelling their way seller on Ascot Street, and eight days
26:58
Speaker 1: they're living here. Eight days and Thomas gets ill and
27:05
Speaker 1: two days after that he dies. Now, because Margaret has
27:10
Speaker 1: been paying into the burial society, she is able to,
27:14
Speaker 1: you know, get the burials sorted like pretty fast, like
27:20
Speaker 1: they are putting it together pretty sharpish. And she's open
27:25
Speaker 1: to get him into the ground as soon as possible.
27:29
Speaker 1: And so she's holding the wake in her house. They're
27:31
Speaker 1: getting ready for the funeral, they're getting ready to take
27:34
Speaker 1: the body out, and that's when her brother in law
27:38
Speaker 1: comes in the door with a doctor and a corner
27:43
Speaker 1: and not long after the police show up. Margaret is
27:48
Speaker 1: pretty swiftly arrested, but her older sister, Catherine or she
27:52
Speaker 1: has scarpled. She is gone. Catherine runs out the door,
27:58
Speaker 1: makes her way through the street, quickly heads home. I
28:03
Speaker 1: don't know why they didn't think to send any couples
28:06
Speaker 1: to like her abode. Feels like it would have been
28:10
Speaker 1: a logical idea. But she goes. She grabs some necessities
28:15
Speaker 1: and then she shelters in the community. So she goes
28:20
Speaker 1: to the Mackenzies on Rockingham Street, and so she stays
28:25
Speaker 1: there for three days or three nights, and they sort
28:28
Speaker 1: of run errands for her and they pick up the
28:30
Speaker 1: bit she needs and she pays them because she's got
28:33
Speaker 1: a ton of money. Think about it, she's been doing
28:36
Speaker 1: the commissions. She's also claimed life insurance policies. Her sister
28:40
Speaker 1: split it with her too, so she's got cash, like
28:45
Speaker 1: physical cash. Now she starts realizing like people know she's
28:52
Speaker 1: in the area, like they're going to know she's there,
28:55
Speaker 1: and so she doesn't want to stay there too long,
28:58
Speaker 1: and so she needs to move. But she doesn't want
29:01
Speaker 1: to run through the street. She doesn't want to you know,
29:04
Speaker 1: have to cook and daggret. And so she takes a
29:07
Speaker 1: taxi like this is a really smart way for her
29:09
Speaker 1: to get around the town because she can to afford
29:11
Speaker 1: the taxis. And so she goes to Lydia Anne Street
29:16
Speaker 1: and she stays at the boarding house there, and so
29:19
Speaker 1: she's in there for one night. She only stays one
29:21
Speaker 1: night there because she's feeling it's pretty hot, and she
29:24
Speaker 1: gets another taxi and off she goes to a boarding
29:28
Speaker 1: house on Mount Stuart Street run by a one missus brooks. Now.
29:34
Speaker 1: She stays there for five five nights I think in total.
29:38
Speaker 1: But then she wants to leave because mister Beth. He's
29:43
Speaker 1: taking an interest in this case that people are talking
29:46
Speaker 1: about all over Liverpool. He's like reading the newspaper and
29:49
Speaker 1: he's talking about how this woman is missing, and you know,
29:53
Speaker 1: they think she's involved in the crime. And she's like,
29:56
Speaker 1: oh god, what if they figure out it's me? And
29:58
Speaker 1: so day five off she goes. But now she's thinking
30:04
Speaker 1: she needs to get out of Liverpool, and so she's
30:06
Speaker 1: heading for the train station. Now she doesn't quite get
30:10
Speaker 1: the taxid there. She kind of gets near to it
30:15
Speaker 1: and then she starts walking. She might be like watching
30:17
Speaker 1: her cash at this point, or she might think, you know,
30:21
Speaker 1: they're waiting at the station and she wants a good
30:23
Speaker 1: distance to see if they're going to be waiting for her.
30:28
Speaker 1: So well, she's moving around town as well. At this point,
30:31
Speaker 1: the police they still think that she's in sort of
30:36
Speaker 1: that dock area by Scotland Street or Scotland Road, and
30:40
Speaker 1: they think she's still in there because they think like
30:43
Speaker 1: the Irish community is hiding her. I don't want to
30:46
Speaker 1: say like snitches get stitches, but you know they're just
30:53
Speaker 1: convinced that nobody's grasping her out and they're all hiding
30:56
Speaker 1: out there and she's like made her way halfway across
31:00
Speaker 1: the city trying to get to the train station, but
31:03
Speaker 1: she doesn't know where she's going, like she doesn't know
31:06
Speaker 1: this area too well, and so she has to ask
31:09
Speaker 1: for directions. And so she meets missus Ward and she's like,
31:12
Speaker 1: i'll walk you there, So she walks her to the
31:15
Speaker 1: train station. And this is Catherine's way out. She is
31:20
Speaker 1: on the home stretch. She's getting ready to go and
31:25
Speaker 1: and missus Ward. They trundle towards the station, only to
31:30
Speaker 1: discover she's missed the train. But Catherine's like, it's fine,
31:38
Speaker 1: I'll just get the other train. So are and missus Ward.
31:43
Speaker 1: They leave together and they go to the Tunnel hotel
31:47
Speaker 1: for a drink because it's got to eat bar in it,
31:50
Speaker 1: and so they go for a drink and they're joined
31:52
Speaker 1: by some fellow and she's explaining to them after a
31:57
Speaker 1: few drinks she's bought them a couple drains because they're
32:01
Speaker 1: seeing she's got money, and she says that there's a
32:05
Speaker 1: warrant out for her arrest because she was selling her
32:10
Speaker 1: son's furniture. And the people around her are kind of
32:15
Speaker 1: like that's a very specific and weird thing to have
32:21
Speaker 1: a warrant out on you from and there's someone in
32:25
Speaker 1: the hotel and they're like, I think that's Catherine Flanagan,
32:30
Speaker 1: whoef I'm not mistaken, is wanted for murder. And so
32:35
Speaker 1: work gets back to the Waverley Police station to Inspector
32:39
Speaker 1: Kelly and they're like, hey, there's a woman down in
32:44
Speaker 1: the Tunnel Hotel with a convenient and also suspicious tale
32:50
Speaker 1: of why she's got so much money. I think maybe
32:53
Speaker 1: you should go check it out. And so Inspector Kelly's like,
32:58
Speaker 1: that's a good idea, and he goes down to the
33:00
Speaker 1: Tunnel Hotel and he gets there only to discover that
33:07
Speaker 1: they're gone. But he asks around and like, yeah, they're
33:12
Speaker 1: just down on Oo Street and so yeah, he heads
33:16
Speaker 1: down to Ono Street and he catches her having her
33:21
Speaker 1: dinner because she's having a week bit to eat before
33:24
Speaker 1: her long journey on the train that she didn't get
33:28
Speaker 1: to have because she gets arrested because Inspector Keeley, like
33:34
Speaker 1: nearly every other policeman in Liverpool, had been provided with
33:40
Speaker 1: a handbill of her description. It read she was about
33:46
Speaker 1: fifty years old, five week two inches tall and stout
33:50
Speaker 1: with a fresh complexion and dark wavy hair, which was
33:54
Speaker 1: turning gray. Her only distinctive features were two uppard teeth
33:57
Speaker 1: which stuck out slightly, and discover on her upper lip.
34:02
Speaker 1: She usually wore large gold e rings and several rings,
34:05
Speaker 1: and spoke with an Irish accent. Catherine had managed to
34:11
Speaker 1: evade capture for like ten days, and it's all because
34:16
Speaker 1: she got a wee bit drunk in a bar and
34:18
Speaker 1: had something to eat instead of just like just getting
34:22
Speaker 1: out of town. Catherine had been on the run since
34:25
Speaker 1: the fifth of October, the day of the funeral. Margaret
34:31
Speaker 1: had been in custody all this time. So when they
34:34
Speaker 1: arrested Margaret, they noticed that there was a pocket on
34:39
Speaker 1: her dress which had a weird stain on it, And
34:42
Speaker 1: they go into the pocket and they find a poison
34:46
Speaker 1: bottle and there was some fluff out the bottle, so
34:50
Speaker 1: they basically surmised that it leaked and caused the stain.
34:56
Speaker 1: They tested the bottle. Shockingly enough, the bottle contained arsenic powder.
35:02
Speaker 1: So they'd carried out the red post mortem. There we
35:04
Speaker 1: autopo sate and they knew that he had died from
35:08
Speaker 1: arsenic poisoning, but they weren't quite sure what type of arsenic,
35:16
Speaker 1: Like initially they thought it was rat poisoning, but it
35:20
Speaker 1: didn't have the same sort of compounds, and so they
35:24
Speaker 1: were like really stumped because you couldn't just go out
35:27
Speaker 1: and buy arsenic at this point, like maybe a few
35:31
Speaker 1: like decades earlier, because they started to regulate it, because
35:36
Speaker 1: you know, the Victorians did start doing that after a while,
35:40
Speaker 1: but for a long time it wasn't regulated. You could
35:43
Speaker 1: just go buy it. But then people kept poisoning their husbands,
35:47
Speaker 1: and so they thought, maybe we should make this a
35:50
Speaker 1: little bit more difficult to you know, purchase poison, and
35:55
Speaker 1: so they did. So they were trying to figure out
35:59
Speaker 1: how they did it. Now Will Margaret is, you know,
36:06
Speaker 1: in prison. She turns on her sister right away, unsurprisingly
36:10
Speaker 1: because you know, she didn't leave her to the wolves.
36:13
Speaker 1: So she starts telling them about how, you know, it
36:17
Speaker 1: was all Catherine's idea, she arranged it. She just did
36:20
Speaker 1: as she was told, and that how they did it
36:26
Speaker 1: was My personal favorite was soaking flypaper in water to
36:33
Speaker 1: remove the arsenic because flypaper was still used to like
36:37
Speaker 1: kill bugs and stuff, because you know, hell, and so
36:41
Speaker 1: they would use this and separate it and then they
36:44
Speaker 1: would lace people's food with it. So not only is
36:48
Speaker 1: she singing like a canary, well, Catherine's on the lamb.
36:53
Speaker 1: But the police start investigating, you know, insurance policies. So
36:59
Speaker 1: they found policies for Catherine's sons, John Thomas's first wife,
37:06
Speaker 1: Mary Patrick Jennings daughter Margaret, and for you know, young
37:15
Speaker 1: Mary Thomas's daughter. So after Catherine is caught, the two
37:19
Speaker 1: sisters are charged with the murders of four victims, John Flanagan,
37:27
Speaker 1: Thomas and Mary Higgins and young Margaret Jennings. And in
37:33
Speaker 1: January eighteen eighty four, the buried bodies are exhumed, So
37:39
Speaker 1: ten year old Mary Higgins. She had been interred for
37:43
Speaker 1: over a year, so she was in a decent state
37:48
Speaker 1: of decomposition. But she was recognized by her hair color
37:52
Speaker 1: and her teeth by Thomas's brother, her uncle, Patrick Higgins.
37:58
Speaker 1: So they perform a post more than one her and
38:01
Speaker 1: they say that she's suffering from some kind of lung disease.
38:04
Speaker 1: But like the rest of her organs are absolutely fine,
38:08
Speaker 1: apart from her bill which is like yellow, and they're
38:12
Speaker 1: just like alarm bells are going off. They're like, yep,
38:16
Speaker 1: take out the organs. Test them and so they do
38:19
Speaker 1: some tests and they're like the term is I think
38:23
Speaker 1: in abundance of arsenic in her body, like there's just
38:29
Speaker 1: too much, so much arsenic. And they test the other
38:33
Speaker 1: corpses and whether they find yeah, I know, you're shocked
38:37
Speaker 1: more bloody arsenic. So the police know that they have
38:41
Speaker 1: all these life insurance policies about these burial Society policies
38:46
Speaker 1: on each of the victims, with the beneficiaries of each
38:50
Speaker 1: policy being either Catherine or Margaret, and they were there,
38:57
Speaker 1: they were present at the dead of each of these
39:00
Speaker 1: victims are alleged victims, like they're there. So this is
39:05
Speaker 1: all taken into account, like the amount of poisoning these
39:09
Speaker 1: people's bodies, you know, their proximity, their means, their motive,
39:14
Speaker 1: their opportunity. So when they went on trial at Saint
39:19
Speaker 1: George's Hall on the fourteenth of February eighteen eighty four,
39:24
Speaker 1: all of this was taken into account. So the trial
39:28
Speaker 1: lasts for three days and the jury then after forty minutes,
39:34
Speaker 1: like they deliberate for forty minutes, like it really does
39:38
Speaker 1: not take them long to come out and tell the
39:40
Speaker 1: court that they find Catherine Flanagin and Mark Higgins guilty
39:49
Speaker 1: for the crime of murder. Now they're only charged with
39:54
Speaker 1: the murder of Patrick Higgins. They do bring the other
39:57
Speaker 1: deaths into account, but he is the only death that
39:59
Speaker 1: they're convicted of. And because they've been charged with this
40:04
Speaker 1: and the punishment for this crime is you know, death,
40:07
Speaker 1: there really isn't any reason as far as you know,
40:11
Speaker 1: the judge and the police and everyone is concerned to
40:14
Speaker 1: like take them to court and charge them with the
40:19
Speaker 1: other poisonings. And this is where the plot thickens. Maybe
40:25
Speaker 1: you see when Catherine is arrested before the trial, she
40:29
Speaker 1: you know, gives a statement to her slicter and she
40:32
Speaker 1: says that she wasn't involved in any of the actual poisonings.
40:36
Speaker 1: What she did was just you know, broker the you know,
40:41
Speaker 1: the agreements between you know, the burial societies, the agents
40:45
Speaker 1: and and you know that the beneficiaries like she just
40:50
Speaker 1: arranged that she didn't do anything else. And then she
40:54
Speaker 1: starts talking about a secret crimes indicate of women who
41:00
Speaker 1: do this, who are part of this big scam, who
41:04
Speaker 1: would put into bario societies and just put through policies
41:08
Speaker 1: and murder people in that there's a massive sort of
41:12
Speaker 1: poisoning ring and she names like six six other potential
41:17
Speaker 1: victims and a few other women who are involved in this,
41:21
Speaker 1: and that they're sort of involved in the crime. Like
41:25
Speaker 1: And it's weird though, because you have to wonder as
41:28
Speaker 1: she simply trying to distance herself like from the crime
41:33
Speaker 1: and go, well, it wasn't that bad because I didn't
41:36
Speaker 1: do this. And then there's always the possibility of what
41:43
Speaker 1: if there was a group of women poisonous and you know, patriarchal,
41:51
Speaker 1: poverty ridden Liverpool, which I would be more inclined to believe,
41:56
Speaker 1: to be honest, if they weren't you know, poisoning teenage
42:02
Speaker 1: girls and children, because there have been like groups of
42:06
Speaker 1: women throughout history who you know, have been involved in
42:11
Speaker 1: the poisonings of husbands and groups of them. But this,
42:17
Speaker 1: this is not that that's a bit more mmm, but
42:21
Speaker 1: insurance money wise, Yeah, seems like a thing that could
42:24
Speaker 1: be happening. And if you're in this interconnected community in crime,
42:29
Speaker 1: breeds crime, I mean there's probably something like that going on,
42:33
Speaker 1: Like she couldn't be the only person doing it. And
42:36
Speaker 1: she's basically saying that all of these people are on
42:38
Speaker 1: the take because you've got agents involved in brokers and
42:43
Speaker 1: doctors who are providing the death certificates, like all of
42:47
Speaker 1: these people are involved in this ring. Now the police
42:52
Speaker 1: look at it and they go, okay, some of these
42:55
Speaker 1: deaths are in fact suspicious. But because the only person
43:00
Speaker 1: like wrapping them out is Katherine Flanagan, a known criminal
43:06
Speaker 1: who's been convicted of murder, there's not a lot they
43:10
Speaker 1: can do because it won't hold up because it's just
43:14
Speaker 1: your say, and depending on how long the bodies have
43:17
Speaker 1: been interred, there's no guarantee that actually get anything from it.
43:24
Speaker 1: So this does nothing. Both of the sisters have turned
43:27
Speaker 1: on each other and they're both going to the gallows.
43:33
Speaker 1: Margaret had offered to give more information on our sister,
43:36
Speaker 1: you know, in an attempt to save her life. But yeah,
43:39
Speaker 1: none of it. None of it was flying. And on
43:42
Speaker 1: a snowy morning at the Kirktail Jail, the two sisters
43:48
Speaker 1: stepped outside, making their way through the dusting towards an
43:54
Speaker 1: ugly dark scaffold. They make their way up the steps,
44:00
Speaker 1: beats around their necks, trying to recite prayers said by
44:05
Speaker 1: the reverend who was supporting Catherine as she trudged forward,
44:10
Speaker 1: and when they reached the top, the executioner placed the
44:14
Speaker 1: white bags above their heads, touched the nisses, and on
44:20
Speaker 1: the third of March eighteen eighty four, the Black Widows
44:24
Speaker 1: of Liverpool, Catherine Flanagan and Margaret Higgins, were hanged. And
44:31
Speaker 1: so ends the story of the Black Widows of Liverpool. Now,
44:36
Speaker 1: if you liked my retelling of this terrible, terrible tale,
44:40
Speaker 1: feel free to wait on review five stars or give
44:43
Speaker 1: me some petty stars. Because I've lost my voice and
44:45
Speaker 1: yet I still talk to this long for you. I
44:48
Speaker 1: was expecting to do this quicker. Clearly that wasn't happening.
44:52
Speaker 1: Don't worry. I'll be taking care of my voice for
44:54
Speaker 1: the next month to make sure it is good, possibly great,
44:59
Speaker 1: even for the live shows. Now, remember there's events on
45:04
Speaker 1: in Dublin, Brighton, Manchester, in Glasgow. So the Dublin show
45:11
Speaker 1: is at Punt Comedy with the Shaite Talk History Boys,
45:15
Speaker 1: and Brighton I'm in the Carolina Brunswick. It's gonna be
45:18
Speaker 1: really really fun. That one is a big ol gay time.
45:21
Speaker 1: It's gonna be fun. We have the Manchester show, which
45:25
Speaker 1: is dubbed Witches, Witches Spooky Bitches, and then the Glasgow
45:31
Speaker 1: show where my family are going to be, so it's
45:33
Speaker 1: gonna be super fun. If you haven't great your tickets,
45:36
Speaker 1: get your tickets. I've still got like some early board
45:40
Speaker 1: ticket stuff for the Brighton shows, So go do that.
45:42
Speaker 1: Come see me. I'm awesome. I promise I'm better embarrasson
45:47
Speaker 1: and when I actually have a voice, So yeah, do that.
45:50
Speaker 1: And on all the socials follow me, they are share stuff,
45:54
Speaker 1: share episodes. It makes all the difference and it also
45:58
Speaker 1: makes me feel really good about myself. And I'm actually
46:04
Speaker 1: thinking of restructuring the Patreon so that it's like less
46:08
Speaker 1: money because I'm feeling of doing it like that, so
46:11
Speaker 1: it's just less because I just I want to make
46:16
Speaker 1: it easier of people to access stuff, you know, because
46:19
Speaker 1: cost eleven crisis and all that, and it feels I
46:23
Speaker 1: think the merch one i'd have to keep up, but
46:25
Speaker 1: like the rest of them, I feel like I can
46:26
Speaker 1: just siphon down into like one easy, like I don't know,
46:31
Speaker 1: like a six quid kind of idea, but then let
46:35
Speaker 1: me know what you think about that. That'd be good
46:37
Speaker 1: to know and recommendation. Time. I bought books. I bought
46:43
Speaker 1: books for reading. I'm going to say American Sherlock by
46:49
Speaker 1: Kate Winkler Dawson. I finally bought it, finally read it. It's
46:52
Speaker 1: really good for lessening. Go listen to Trashy Divorces. It's
46:58
Speaker 1: a really awesome podcast and it's brilliant. Go us in
47:02
Speaker 1: Delicia and for watching death and other details. I am
47:10
Speaker 1: obsessed with the clothes. I mean, everything else is fabulous,
47:15
Speaker 1: but the clothes in this specifically, I think it's the
47:18
Speaker 1: dogs tooth slash hounds tooth, however you want to call it.
47:22
Speaker 1: I'm really feeling it right now, and that's just because
47:26
Speaker 1: I'm an old person and a not quite as old
47:30
Speaker 1: person's body. But with that, I am going to bid
47:34
Speaker 1: you farewell, adios au revoir a wee as them my friends,
47:41
Speaker 1: Bye bye,