Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / The Week That Was – 21st April 2023

Transcript

The Week That Was – 21st April 2023 · 360 with Katie Woolf

0:00
Speaker 1: It is time for the week that was, and in
0:02
Speaker 1: the studio with us this morning, We've got Matt Cunningham,
0:05
Speaker 1: Sky News Bureau Chief. Good morning to you, Matte morning,
0:08
Speaker 1: will be great to have you in the studio. We
0:10
Speaker 1: have got the Independent member for good O Kezier Puric,
0:13
Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Keezier.
0:14
Speaker 2: Morning, Katie, Morning, Bush people.
0:15
Speaker 1: And we have got Labors member for Fanny Bay, Brent Potter,
0:19
Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Bret listeners.
0:21
Speaker 2: And in a world first for.
0:23
Speaker 1: The week that was this morning, we've actually got Bill
0:26
Speaker 1: Yan joining us from Alice Springs down the phone line.
0:29
Speaker 2: So Bill, are you there? Can you hear us at
0:33
Speaker 2: the moment? No, So bear with me one moment. Bill.
0:46
Speaker 2: Is it cold in Alice this morning?
0:48
Speaker 3: Pill, Well, let's just say I'm going to jump on
0:51
Speaker 3: this morning. I'm down to visit and enjoy the cooler weather.
0:57
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what, there's a lot to cover
0:59
Speaker 2: off on.
0:59
Speaker 1: This morning, and we will get to Alice Springs and
1:01
Speaker 1: talk about what's going on there in just a little while.
1:04
Speaker 1: But I do want to actually start off with the terrible,
1:07
Speaker 1: terrible situation that we found ourselves in over the weekend.
1:10
Speaker 1: Will last Friday evening, In fact, a woman was killed
1:13
Speaker 1: after allegedly being fatally stabbed by her partner outside a
1:17
Speaker 1: hotel in the city just before six pm on Friday.
1:21
Speaker 1: Fifty six year old man's being charged with murder with
1:23
Speaker 1: the murder of his fifty one year old partner and
1:26
Speaker 1: appeared in court earlier this week. We also know about
1:30
Speaker 1: thirteen kilometers away there was an aggravated assault at Casarina
1:33
Speaker 1: shopping Center around about the same time or not too
1:37
Speaker 1: long after, which saw two people stab following an argument
1:40
Speaker 1: in the underground car park area.
1:42
Speaker 2: A twenty two year old woman was.
1:44
Speaker 1: Charged with reckless endanger life, aggravated assault, armed with an
1:48
Speaker 1: offensive weapon, and breach of bail. Now, obviously we can't
1:52
Speaker 1: go into the specifics of those cases they are now
1:55
Speaker 1: before the courts.
1:57
Speaker 4: Sure as hell can comment on them.
1:58
Speaker 1: Well, that's right, and they are further examples of the
2:01
Speaker 1: terrible issues that we're grappling with across the Northern Territory
2:04
Speaker 1: right now. I mean, we talk about knife crime, we
2:06
Speaker 1: talk about weapons, we talk about alcohol, we talk about
2:09
Speaker 1: domestic violence, and it has all become very very heavy,
2:16
Speaker 1: very very sad, and really quite difficult I think for
2:20
Speaker 1: us as a territory to deal with.
2:24
Speaker 5: Well, yes, no territory, no place, no juistiction should have
2:27
Speaker 5: to deal with what we're dealing with an experienced list,
2:30
Speaker 5: particularly the.
2:30
Speaker 4: People who were killed.
2:31
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm sure they didn't plan on waking up
2:33
Speaker 5: that morning and ending their life on that day. And
2:36
Speaker 5: it goes to show that these knives and these edged
2:39
Speaker 5: weapons called them what you want, are still prevalent in
2:41
Speaker 5: our society. And they still comment, you know, like who
2:44
Speaker 5: carries a knife around with them?
2:46
Speaker 4: You know, like I get it.
2:47
Speaker 5: A lot of bush people, we have pocket knives in
2:49
Speaker 5: pouches on your belts and all that sort of thing.
2:51
Speaker 5: But these aren't pocket knives. These are knives out of
2:53
Speaker 5: the kitchen drawer or whatever, you know. So they're carrying
2:56
Speaker 5: this around. This is not the first time a person
2:59
Speaker 5: man or woman has been killed in our CBD by
3:01
Speaker 5: a knife attack by a partner. Yeah, and the fact
3:04
Speaker 5: that it is a knife or was a knife, I
3:07
Speaker 5: don't think it's covered under the new bar law changes
3:09
Speaker 5: because it's not a prohibitive weapon and it's not a
3:11
Speaker 5: control weapon.
3:12
Speaker 2: So so you don't reckon that. No, I skinner, it.
3:14
Speaker 5: Absolutely does well underwatch cattery. It's not controlled, it's not
3:17
Speaker 5: it's not prohibitive. And you didn't include offensive weapons in
3:19
Speaker 5: the bar amendments.
3:20
Speaker 6: Corek, we didn't include defensive weapons. But what's important to
3:22
Speaker 6: understand and your.
3:23
Speaker 4: Listeners, she was on bail.
3:26
Speaker 2: At the incident.
3:26
Speaker 6: In let me answer the question you had there. The
3:31
Speaker 6: reason we haven't included defensive weapons. Give you an example,
3:33
Speaker 6: and we're waiting on the Bow review to come back
3:35
Speaker 6: to us, and we're also engaging with the police. And
3:37
Speaker 6: if you were carrying a pair of scis nailsis as
3:39
Speaker 6: an example, and we included those an offensive weapon, every
3:42
Speaker 6: or as a weapon. Everyone carrying nail scissors is then
3:45
Speaker 6: carrying a weapon in public. Now, then you've got to
3:48
Speaker 6: ask us, well, how do you you want us to
3:50
Speaker 6: pick and choose who we actually say that, how you
3:52
Speaker 6: can't do that versus strict implementation of the law. I
3:55
Speaker 6: think what we've got right is immediate response to what
3:58
Speaker 6: happened a deckin Levy, that the tragedy to have him.
4:00
Speaker 6: When we get the bar reform review comeback, if there's
4:03
Speaker 6: more that we have to do, we'll absolutely do it.
4:05
Speaker 6: That's the commitment we've made. We'll do more of this.
4:07
Speaker 7: That's why it's a presumption right though, because the judge
4:10
Speaker 7: can still make the decision. So the judge could still
4:12
Speaker 7: say you've got, you've got. You were just carrying nail sisms.
4:16
Speaker 7: So in this case, I'm.
4:17
Speaker 8: Going to give you bail.
4:18
Speaker 7: You were carrying around a ten times kitchen knife.
4:22
Speaker 8: Sorry mate, you're not getting bad.
4:23
Speaker 6: But the alternative that was provided by the CLP was
4:26
Speaker 6: no bail. Like nowhere else in Australia does that happen.
4:29
Speaker 6: You can't deny anyone the ability to have their case
4:32
Speaker 6: heard for.
4:32
Speaker 8: A bail application.
4:33
Speaker 6: That doesn't happen anywhere. Law reform society.
4:37
Speaker 3: We bought our first change and then we bought an amendment.
4:41
Speaker 3: You guys, far to that amendment, Dan, This comes down
4:43
Speaker 3: to the very point in fact about protecting territory. And
4:46
Speaker 3: you've only got to look at what happened in darw
4:48
Speaker 3: on the weekend and what's been happening here in our
4:51
Speaker 3: springs is you've got to draw a on the sand
4:54
Speaker 3: somewhere and we've got to start protecting territories.
4:58
Speaker 6: If those other we're included in that Act, the offensive
5:03
Speaker 6: weapon covers.
5:04
Speaker 1: That just go back to though, are we in a
5:06
Speaker 1: situation here where knife is not covered by these changes.
5:10
Speaker 6: Knife is covered.
5:12
Speaker 5: No, it's not covered by these changes because the changes
5:15
Speaker 5: presumption of bail went against the person if it was
5:19
Speaker 5: a prohibited or a control weapon.
5:24
Speaker 6: Had on. You've just gone from knife to not included
5:28
Speaker 6: but in an offensive weapon that the police can determine
5:31
Speaker 6: and add that to the to the offense. Now, what
5:33
Speaker 6: I want, not presumption, I would say to Bill quickly,
5:37
Speaker 6: is that everyone has the right to innocence until proven
5:40
Speaker 6: guilty before the court. Now, in terms of bail, the
5:42
Speaker 6: judge has that determination. You can have a presumption against bail,
5:46
Speaker 6: and the judge can still give bail in certain circumstances,
5:49
Speaker 6: but we start from a position of presumption against bail.
5:51
Speaker 2: Now let me.
5:51
Speaker 1: Put this really bluntly then, So if we've got a
5:53
Speaker 1: situation where somebody has been involved in a knife offense,
5:57
Speaker 1: in an assault for example, the knife, and they're then
6:02
Speaker 1: on bail and they commit no sorry, so they're going
6:06
Speaker 1: to be able to give it be given bail if
6:08
Speaker 1: they are involved in a knife assault.
6:10
Speaker 6: So I just last year that started at the end
6:11
Speaker 6: of that with these headphones on. Now, so if it's
6:14
Speaker 6: a serious offense and they've used a weapon, they will
6:16
Speaker 6: be a presumption against bail. That's that's the changes we
6:19
Speaker 6: brought in. It's very clear, is.
6:20
Speaker 7: That your well, that's my understanding, and the specific wording
6:24
Speaker 7: used at the press conference was bladed weapon. So I
6:28
Speaker 7: presume that the presumption of bail is against blade absolutely.
6:31
Speaker 1: It's still presumption no matter how you look at it. Though,
6:33
Speaker 1: I guess a lot of people are going to be going,
6:35
Speaker 1: all right, well, you guys are speaking semantics because on
6:37
Speaker 1: the weekend we've still seen what's going on happens.
6:40
Speaker 2: Issue is well, that's exactly right.
6:42
Speaker 1: So people feel as though there is no punishment if
6:45
Speaker 1: you're out there assaulting somebody with a weapon, and we've
6:48
Speaker 1: seen it, you know, with vehicles and with various other
6:52
Speaker 1: weapons as well, not just knives, where we have got
6:55
Speaker 1: this really serious, serious crime issue on our hands at
6:58
Speaker 1: the moment.
6:58
Speaker 4: I guess Katie that.
7:01
Speaker 5: In my view, in the assumption, I should say that
7:04
Speaker 5: man wouldn't have committed the act he committed if he
7:06
Speaker 5: was stone cold sober. The fact was that he was
7:09
Speaker 5: probably heavily intoxicated as the as the woman may have
7:12
Speaker 5: been as well, and committed the act that he committed,
7:16
Speaker 5: you know, got into an altercation got into a serious argument,
7:18
Speaker 5: a very serious argument. So we've got to go to
7:21
Speaker 5: the root causes of the problem, and that was and
7:23
Speaker 5: he was heavily intoxicated. So obviously there's building you can
7:28
Speaker 5: probably tell us what they are.
7:28
Speaker 4: But there's more restrictions being placed on our springs.
7:31
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, and I'm not going to be the
7:33
Speaker 5: ones to say you should regulate business, but something seriously
7:36
Speaker 5: has to come. And I listened to what Maria scrim
7:38
Speaker 5: Jaw said about you know, income management and you know,
7:41
Speaker 5: quarantining big chunks of income of people on pensions or whatever.
7:44
Speaker 1: Well, look and we might's watch a bit more about
7:47
Speaker 1: that afterwards, because I am keen to get stuck into
7:49
Speaker 1: that discussion about the quarantining of income payments. But just
7:53
Speaker 1: going back to what we've seen over the course of
7:55
Speaker 1: the weekend, and not forgetting the fact that tomorrow we
7:59
Speaker 1: are going to see him oriel held.
8:00
Speaker 2: For young deck Lan Lavity here in Darwin.
8:04
Speaker 1: You know, an incredibly difficult time for his family, an
8:07
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult time I think for everybody that works in
8:10
Speaker 1: a bottle shop as well. And you know, I've been
8:13
Speaker 1: contacted on numerous occasions over the last couple of weeks
8:16
Speaker 1: by people that work in bottle shops, and I know
8:18
Speaker 1: that things have come down a little bit for them.
8:20
Speaker 1: I know that, you know it ebbs and flows sometimes
8:23
Speaker 1: when you look at the crime that we're seeing. But
8:25
Speaker 1: I don't think that anybody in this room would probably
8:28
Speaker 1: argue too much that the situation that we're in in
8:30
Speaker 1: the Northern Territory right now when it comes to violence,
8:33
Speaker 1: when it comes to those terrible incidents that we're seeing
8:36
Speaker 1: on our streets. I mean when it comes to what
8:38
Speaker 1: happened at Casharina. I was there with the kids a
8:41
Speaker 1: couple of hours earlier. You know, how are we in
8:44
Speaker 1: a situation where you know where this is going on
8:48
Speaker 1: and it's become so common that it's becoming really very.
8:53
Speaker 2: Depressing an exhaust technic for people.
8:55
Speaker 7: I think it's worth remembering too, Will Fee that sadly,
8:59
Speaker 7: in the majority of cases, the victims here are Aboriginal people.
9:04
Speaker 7: And you know, there's an Aboriginal woman who's been killed,
9:07
Speaker 7: stabbed to death on the Esplanade on Friday night. I'm
9:09
Speaker 7: not sure about Cajorina, but I think thee there were
9:11
Speaker 7: Aboriginal as well as well. Yep, So it's Aboriginal people
9:14
Speaker 7: who are overwhelming the victims of these crimes as well.
9:18
Speaker 7: And the domestic violence in particular is just it's just horrendous,
9:23
Speaker 7: you know, the domestic violence that we've seen a woman
9:25
Speaker 7: killed on Friday. You know, we saw a woman killed
9:28
Speaker 7: at Jingly a couple of years ago, just absolutely horrible circumstances.
9:32
Speaker 7: We saw two women killed within a couple of weeks
9:35
Speaker 7: of one another a few years ago on the Nightcliff Foreshore.
9:38
Speaker 5: And last year or the year before, Bill correct me
9:40
Speaker 5: when the lady, the woman in Alice Springs abriage lady
9:43
Speaker 5: got run over by.
9:43
Speaker 3: The next was killed by a partner with a car.
9:48
Speaker 7: And another one in Alice Springs, another one in Alice
9:51
Speaker 7: Springs last year, the murder suicide of an Aboriginal woman
9:54
Speaker 7: and her infant child.
9:55
Speaker 6: I went to before that you can have all these
9:59
Speaker 6: consequences we've in place, before the courts and all the
10:01
Speaker 6: sensing that the real work is done at the front end,
10:03
Speaker 6: in stopping and happening at the start, and we've got
10:05
Speaker 6: a long way to go on that. I don't know,
10:07
Speaker 6: never shy away from that fact. We've put a lot
10:09
Speaker 6: of money into it. There's some great programs that are
10:10
Speaker 6: working our of springs. The problem is huge, and the
10:13
Speaker 6: problem is going to take us years to address, and
10:15
Speaker 6: you do it in incremental steps. And there's no doubt
10:17
Speaker 6: that Aboriginal women and men are disproportionate represented.
10:22
Speaker 2: What does the community do in the meantime?
10:23
Speaker 1: And I know I've asked this question on numerous occasions.
10:27
Speaker 1: I've put it to numerous members of Parliament. What does
10:30
Speaker 1: the community do in the meantime? Because what we're seeing
10:34
Speaker 1: at the moment is unacceptable. And while we all understand
10:37
Speaker 1: that these are really complex issues that are going to
10:40
Speaker 1: take some time, you actually have to stop criminal behavior
10:43
Speaker 1: and there has to be punishment for criminal behavior.
10:47
Speaker 6: I'll answer that I've just lost my headphones again. There
10:49
Speaker 6: we go. Like you said, Keys, alcohol has been the
10:52
Speaker 6: root cause of all this. Now we've listened and we've
10:54
Speaker 6: brought in a voluntary buyback, and there's been a lot
10:56
Speaker 6: of talk around voluntary buybacks and government interfering a small bit.
11:00
Speaker 6: No one has to give their license up if they
11:01
Speaker 6: don't want to. Yeah, there's an opportunity here to sell
11:04
Speaker 6: your license back and remove some of the supply of alcohol.
11:07
Speaker 6: We know that secondary supplier is occurring, and we know
11:08
Speaker 6: that it's happening out it's and to be honest, the
11:10
Speaker 6: big commercial operators have huge fines and commercial fines and
11:13
Speaker 6: their processes are in place and at the end of
11:15
Speaker 6: the day, if someone breaches, then we will look at
11:18
Speaker 6: their license. So this is a chance to tand that
11:20
Speaker 6: license back. We've got an increase in police presence and
11:22
Speaker 6: patrolling after what happened with Deck and Lavity, and personally,
11:25
Speaker 6: I've seen a change in the amount of police cars
11:27
Speaker 6: are on the road all throughout the city and the
11:28
Speaker 6: city is looking cleaner, and same with the subers and
11:30
Speaker 6: just shows that when if you want to change behaviors,
11:33
Speaker 6: it is constant pressure and every territory and can play
11:35
Speaker 6: a space in this. And I tell my constituents this
11:37
Speaker 6: through our Community Safety Action Plan, report early and often I.
11:40
Speaker 1: Want to just go to that because the report early
11:43
Speaker 1: and dolphin people are trying to report. And Matt, you
11:45
Speaker 1: had a story with Marian Scrimdaw earlier in the week
11:48
Speaker 1: where she'd tried to report a very very serious domestic
11:51
Speaker 1: violence incident and couldn't get police.
11:53
Speaker 7: Yeah, she told me that this is the night before
11:56
Speaker 7: Decklan Lavity was killed, and it's at the same location
12:00
Speaker 7: Marian scrim Just says her daughter lives in the units
12:03
Speaker 7: that are nearby. She was there she witnessed a woman
12:07
Speaker 7: being beaten by a man. At that same location, she
12:10
Speaker 7: witnessed the man trying to pour petrol on that woman.
12:13
Speaker 7: She said she called police five times and they didn't come,
12:16
Speaker 7: and it was only when she picked up the phone
12:17
Speaker 7: and called the police commissioner directly that she was able
12:21
Speaker 7: to get action. She says that woman would have died
12:23
Speaker 7: there that night, So I think there is I just
12:27
Speaker 7: I find it a bit odd that we keep being
12:28
Speaker 7: told by the police Minister and the Chief Minister that
12:31
Speaker 7: we have enough police. It appears to me that we
12:34
Speaker 7: don't and a situation, an incident like that, appears to
12:38
Speaker 7: confirm that we don't have enough police, because if a
12:40
Speaker 7: woman is being subjected to that sort of violence and
12:44
Speaker 7: there is that sort of immediate threat and no one's coming,
12:48
Speaker 7: then you can't tell me we've got enough police.
12:50
Speaker 3: And I think that that's the same things having because
12:57
Speaker 3: we had we had been told of is use. And
13:00
Speaker 3: it's been confirmed by police here that sometimes the messy
13:03
Speaker 3: violence incidents are being reported to police and they're not
13:06
Speaker 3: able to get to those matters until seventy two hours later.
13:09
Speaker 3: Because of the lack of police on the ground, they're
13:11
Speaker 3: that understaffed and that short to be able to deal
13:13
Speaker 3: with these issues, they can't get to them and they
13:15
Speaker 3: find it very difficult to respond at the immediate time. So, yeah,
13:20
Speaker 3: the words that are coming out from the police ministered
13:22
Speaker 3: in the chief and just saying that we've got more
13:24
Speaker 3: police and invested more than policeful. That's not showing up
13:27
Speaker 3: on the ground for territories calling asking for help and
13:30
Speaker 3: not getting it.
13:30
Speaker 5: You're right, Bill, I mean I think we've got and
13:33
Speaker 5: someone's probably got a better figure. We've got a round
13:34
Speaker 5: about fifteen hundred. I think police officers want police officers,
13:38
Speaker 5: and at any one time there's a couple one hundred
13:40
Speaker 5: them not attending to work because of various reasons, are
13:43
Speaker 5: annually but particularly sickly, even workers calm. So we probably
13:47
Speaker 5: have enough police on the books, but we don't have
13:50
Speaker 5: enough police clearly.
13:51
Speaker 4: On the beat.
13:51
Speaker 5: So then the question has to be why is such
13:53
Speaker 5: a large proportion of your employment not turning out for
13:58
Speaker 5: work because of genuine sick like COVID. That's fair enough,
14:01
Speaker 5: and you've got genuine annual leave and whatever long service leave,
14:04
Speaker 5: but there's a big swag of them that are not
14:06
Speaker 5: at work because of mental crisis, a.
14:10
Speaker 2: Cultural topic, cultural workings.
14:12
Speaker 6: Availability, and resource. I agree with you keyser so on
14:15
Speaker 6: that we have a very strong resource and well resourced
14:18
Speaker 6: police force. You are absolutely right. We have police that
14:20
Speaker 6: are on sick leave, on annual leave, on mental health
14:23
Speaker 6: and stress leave. And it's pretty evident through the NTPA
14:25
Speaker 6: surveys that we have to address those issues. And I
14:27
Speaker 6: think we're doing that, and we go to marrying the
14:31
Speaker 6: point of what marriage Scrimjaw said. You know, that was
14:33
Speaker 6: the night before deck and Lavity, and maybe there may
14:36
Speaker 6: have been a different outcome if we were engaging early
14:38
Speaker 6: with more police on the beat. You know, they were
14:39
Speaker 6: getting back to work and that got addressed. You know,
14:41
Speaker 6: can't change what's happened. We can absolutely address going forward,
14:45
Speaker 6: and we're doing that. And what I can say is that,
14:47
Speaker 6: you know, the NTPA survey is pretty clear. It's very
14:50
Speaker 6: clear that they're unhappy and there's some relish and coming
14:52
Speaker 6: from the organizations that I have. You know, a leader
14:55
Speaker 6: has to energize these people to follow on the vision
14:57
Speaker 6: that you have as an organization, and we're doing that.
15:00
Speaker 6: And we're getting guys back to work. But yeah, absolutely
15:03
Speaker 6: don't disagree with you. Keyasier, and I think when we
15:05
Speaker 6: talk early and often reporting though, it's about the morning.
15:07
Speaker 6: If you report, If we're getting on stuff in the
15:09
Speaker 6: afternoon when people have been drinking at the stage of
15:11
Speaker 6: domestic family violence, that's a huge workload for police. It's
15:14
Speaker 6: all the stuff done early with counsel with larachia, with
15:16
Speaker 6: gunment in the morning, early and targeting that secondary supply
15:20
Speaker 6: of alcohol supply because it's central to the problems that
15:22
Speaker 6: we're saying.
15:22
Speaker 1: Well, look, I have just got a message from Alex
15:24
Speaker 1: Bruce that's come through the CEO of Hospitality here in
15:27
Speaker 1: the Northern Territory, says Hi Kadie. Alcohol is not the
15:30
Speaker 1: root cause of the problems. If that were the case,
15:33
Speaker 1: half of the territory's land mass, where alcohol has been
15:36
Speaker 1: prohibited for the best part of the last two decades,
15:39
Speaker 1: would be full of happy, wealthy, utopian communities. We have
15:43
Speaker 1: to get past knee jerk alcohol supply changes to the
15:46
Speaker 1: harder work with those vulnerable families to break their cycles
15:49
Speaker 1: of violence and substance abuse. So just providing Alex that opportunity,
15:55
Speaker 1: we kind of have some feedback there.
15:56
Speaker 2: Thanks Thanks Bruce, Alexy Bruce.
16:00
Speaker 5: Spruce Spruce which one Matthew, I always get annoyed. Yes,
16:07
Speaker 5: I get it that if you cut supply then you
16:09
Speaker 5: don't have the supply to drink and digest. But it's
16:13
Speaker 5: always put back on the businesses. It's always the business's fault.
16:16
Speaker 5: It's always the businesses. You should think about giving up
16:19
Speaker 5: your takeaway license. And then you have the Palmson Mere
16:21
Speaker 5: saying oh, we should compulsory acquire the liquor license.
16:24
Speaker 4: We'll get out of it.
16:25
Speaker 6: We've not said we do that.
16:27
Speaker 4: You haven't, but there are I think.
16:29
Speaker 6: Why people know we're not going down that.
16:30
Speaker 5: Problem scarluts like that is not going to solve the problem.
16:33
Speaker 5: That will just drive it underground. If you say who
16:35
Speaker 5: they going to pick, We'll pick the trouble someone molding
16:39
Speaker 5: they're going to pick on for a liquor license.
16:41
Speaker 6: Needs to alcohol in the social clubs in the communities
16:44
Speaker 6: and getting people to live with alcohol and manage it appropriately.
16:47
Speaker 6: Coming into town to access alcohol isn't fixing the problem.
16:51
Speaker 6: And this is you know where we're going with the
16:53
Speaker 6: local decision making agreements that we have through government with like.
16:55
Speaker 2: Look, we are going to take a very short break.
16:57
Speaker 1: When we come back, I am keen to talk about
16:59
Speaker 1: what is going on in Alice Springs with those alcohol
17:02
Speaker 1: restrictions being extended and some of the other concerns that
17:05
Speaker 1: we've got around the territory. Right now, you are listening
17:07
Speaker 1: to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty. It is
17:10
Speaker 1: the week that was. Well, we have had Bill Yan
17:12
Speaker 1: drop out for some reason, so we're just trying to
17:14
Speaker 1: get him back on the line. You are listening to
17:16
Speaker 1: Mix one oh four nine's three sixty. It is the
17:18
Speaker 1: week that was. If you've just joined us, we've got
17:20
Speaker 1: Matt Cunningham, kizy Epiric, Brent Potter.
17:23
Speaker 2: And Bill Yan in Alice Springs.
17:26
Speaker 1: And now, speaking of Alice Springs, we know that the
17:28
Speaker 1: Northern Territory government have said that they are going to
17:31
Speaker 1: extend take away alcohol restrictions in the Red Center. So
17:35
Speaker 1: over the past three months they say that they've seen
17:38
Speaker 1: alcohol restrictions work and support our community and frontline workers.
17:43
Speaker 1: So alcohol related emergency department presentations at Alice Springs Hospital
17:48
Speaker 1: have almost halved and domestic violence has dropped by a
17:52
Speaker 1: third in the month since the takeaway alcohol restrictions were
17:56
Speaker 1: reintroduced into the Northern Territory. Now, Bill, I will go
18:00
Speaker 1: to you first in Alice Springs. Obviously these alcohol restrictions extended.
18:06
Speaker 1: Do you think that that's going to sort things out
18:08
Speaker 1: in Alice Springs?
18:10
Speaker 3: Well, look, initially it certainly made a difference Kati down here,
18:13
Speaker 3: but we've got to go back to the reason these
18:16
Speaker 3: emergency powers were introduced. The territory government at the end
18:20
Speaker 3: of Stronger Futures last year didn't put anything in place
18:23
Speaker 3: to protect communities, protect the town camps and of course
18:27
Speaker 3: a lot of people across the territory and we've seen
18:29
Speaker 3: the pain and suffering, particularly in our community here leading
18:33
Speaker 3: into January, and finally they said the Prime Minister come
18:36
Speaker 3: into town and grab the Chief Minister and the Attorney General,
18:40
Speaker 3: keeping and screaming to the table and they had to
18:43
Speaker 3: bring in those emodons and measures FOROHOL. Then we've seen
18:46
Speaker 3: the effected the reintroduction of what was Stronger Futures after
18:49
Speaker 3: the first Parliament this year. So yes, they've had an
18:52
Speaker 3: immediate effect. We've seen a reduction in presentations to the
18:56
Speaker 3: hospital for alcohol related harm, which is great. But the
18:59
Speaker 3: Chief in this yesterday in an interview couldn't specifically provide
19:03
Speaker 3: any data on the police side of it. So we've
19:06
Speaker 3: seen it. They've kicked the can down and raid effectively.
19:10
Speaker 3: So we're going to see another three months of these restrictions.
19:13
Speaker 3: There's been no specific call for the Liquor Commission to
19:16
Speaker 3: do an inquiry, and as Alex bruce Wright they said
19:19
Speaker 3: in his interview, that brings everybody to the table and
19:22
Speaker 3: here is a little bit of dirty laundry so that
19:26
Speaker 3: we can see where the problems are and highlight the
19:29
Speaker 3: issues and then work to sort of rectify them. But
19:33
Speaker 3: what I really took away from yesterday and I sort
19:35
Speaker 3: of got up my nose a little bit, was the
19:37
Speaker 3: fact that the chiefiness said, well, this three month gives
19:40
Speaker 3: us some more time to do some work with the BDR.
19:42
Speaker 3: What the hell have you been doing for the last
19:44
Speaker 3: six months?
19:45
Speaker 4: What's a BDR just not going to do anything.
19:46
Speaker 3: Last the last six years with the BDR has been
19:51
Speaker 3: there and we've been calling for changes to the BDA.
19:54
Speaker 3: We've actually asked for a review and I've been asking
19:56
Speaker 3: for the BDR to be expanded to include parents of
19:59
Speaker 3: kids that are on the street being neglected. If it's
20:01
Speaker 3: going to be proved that Paris and neglecting their kids
20:03
Speaker 3: because of our whole jam.
20:05
Speaker 2: And on the BBS.
20:06
Speaker 6: So I could probably answer that Katie, like, let's bill
20:09
Speaker 6: come on. You knew we were doing a Liquor Act
20:11
Speaker 6: review this year in which we would look at the BDR,
20:14
Speaker 6: so you know, to say that you've been asking for
20:15
Speaker 6: BDR claims, well, that's already going to happen. Liquor I
20:19
Speaker 6: let you speak, you're on the phone. It's the best
20:20
Speaker 6: bit about not being in person. And then they had
20:26
Speaker 6: to do that once. And I mean Katie, the chiefs.
20:29
Speaker 6: You know, I said this on your show probably three
20:31
Speaker 6: a month ago. I said, everything is on the table
20:33
Speaker 6: in Alice Springs and we'll do whatever we can to
20:35
Speaker 6: protect her. A Tooris down there now, I think Alex
20:37
Speaker 6: Bruce is partially on the money there. We needed to
20:40
Speaker 6: do a review and understand that the bigger and wider
20:42
Speaker 6: problem there. I think the Liquor Act review will give
20:44
Speaker 6: us that opportunity. The BDR absolutely needs some reforms, you know,
20:48
Speaker 6: the people that can refer to it, just because what
20:51
Speaker 6: I would say is the operator, the way that's currently
20:53
Speaker 6: operated needs reforms, and you have to restrict some people's
20:57
Speaker 6: access to it, but you have to you can't throw
20:59
Speaker 6: the BDR.
21:00
Speaker 1: Saying that, Okay, well, where you know alcohol related Emergency
21:03
Speaker 1: Department presentations in Alice Springs of almost had domestic violence
21:07
Speaker 1: has dropped by a third. Things like that, why don't
21:10
Speaker 1: we use stats to see whether the bdr's working or not?
21:16
Speaker 5: Maywell, and it's good and I put a comment I
21:18
Speaker 5: think money on the chiefs Facebook page. It's good that
21:21
Speaker 5: the data shows that there's a reduction ear of harm,
21:24
Speaker 5: but it's come from an alarming high level. So it
21:26
Speaker 5: was five hundred people being beaten up, now it's only
21:28
Speaker 5: two hundred.
21:29
Speaker 4: And fifty people being beaten up. Aren't we doing a
21:30
Speaker 4: good job? You're not doing a good job.
21:33
Speaker 8: Tell you what.
21:33
Speaker 7: It also shows, and it shows that when stronger futures
21:36
Speaker 7: ended and the alcohol was allowed back into the town camps,
21:39
Speaker 7: there was an immediate Like you look at it, there's
21:41
Speaker 7: week by week in that data. The week after it
21:44
Speaker 7: immediately spikes significantly and it stays at elevated rates for
21:49
Speaker 7: six months. So my concern is, remember that you had
21:54
Speaker 7: Congress and others warning the government about this. Well, for future,
21:57
Speaker 7: you had just Enterprise and Marian scrimshre In the maiden
22:00
Speaker 7: speeches in the Federal Parliament saying this is a disaster,
22:03
Speaker 7: an absolute disaster that is happening right now. And I
22:07
Speaker 7: remember I spoke to Linda Bernie at the Garma Festival
22:09
Speaker 7: a week after Marian and just sint He had made
22:11
Speaker 7: their speeches in Parliament. She said, oh, we're monitoring the
22:14
Speaker 7: situation with the Northern Territory government. Now, if the Minister
22:18
Speaker 7: for Indigenous Australians and the Northern Territory Government were monitoring
22:21
Speaker 7: this situation, they would have seen that data, they would
22:24
Speaker 7: have had access to that data for that entire six months,
22:28
Speaker 7: they would have seen the elevated levels. And yet they
22:32
Speaker 7: did nothing. They didn't do anything until continue, until Bible started,
22:38
Speaker 7: GB Radio and Sippy.
22:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, which you think to yourself, like, how long have
22:42
Speaker 1: we been talking about these concerns in the Northern.
22:44
Speaker 5: Territory, Katie that when the sunset clause came in for
22:47
Speaker 5: that piece of legislation and people could access alcohol again. Yes,
22:51
Speaker 5: there was that component Linda Bernie saying she was monitoring whatever.
22:54
Speaker 5: But there was a report done by Prime Minister and
22:57
Speaker 5: Cabinet into this very topic. And I've got a copy
22:59
Speaker 5: back in my office and it said, then Anti government,
23:03
Speaker 5: you need to do something because when this sunset clause
23:05
Speaker 5: comes in, you're going to have these X Y Z issues. Now,
23:09
Speaker 5: the Anti government had that report. If I've got a copy,
23:11
Speaker 5: everyone's got a copy. And again they did nothing. And
23:14
Speaker 5: then Chancey Paike, the Attorney General comes out and says, oh,
23:19
Speaker 5: prior in parliament around that time, oh, that's.
23:22
Speaker 4: A racist policy. We're not going to do it.
23:23
Speaker 5: And then of course he and the chief menus just
23:25
Speaker 5: to have to backflip and bring them in. So I
23:27
Speaker 5: badly managed it from the word.
23:29
Speaker 6: Going for it. And so you go to remember and listen,
23:31
Speaker 6: I'll wear what we need to wear on this right like,
23:33
Speaker 6: there is no doubt the data in the town camps
23:36
Speaker 6: spiked and there was an increasing drinking. Then we've seen
23:38
Speaker 6: all the DV and the assaults come from that. We
23:40
Speaker 6: tried to engage the Komonwealth government and it doesn't matter
23:42
Speaker 6: which side of government was. We had an election. So
23:44
Speaker 6: both federal governments on this are saying we need funding
23:47
Speaker 6: if you want to continue this. We wrote to them
23:49
Speaker 6: on this. It's very clear they would not provide funding.
23:51
Speaker 6: They would not extend strongest futures that puts us in
23:54
Speaker 6: a position and we went down the path that we
23:55
Speaker 6: did and allowed alcohol. Backing, Let's be very clear, Katie,
23:58
Speaker 6: alcohol has been in communities even during the stronger futures.
24:01
Speaker 6: It was just black market alcohol and it still happens.
24:03
Speaker 6: What we need to do is work with communities to
24:06
Speaker 6: manage alcohol because we can't continue this going forward.
24:09
Speaker 7: Also, I think it's worth pointing Toad, yeah, right, But
24:12
Speaker 7: I think it is worth pointing out as well that
24:13
Speaker 7: there is a letter from the former Minister of Indigenous
24:16
Speaker 7: Australias Ken White, sent to the Northern Territory government in
24:18
Speaker 7: about March of last year for the seventh and he's
24:21
Speaker 7: basically endorsing their approach.
24:22
Speaker 8: He's not saying don't do this.
24:25
Speaker 7: So I think that the former federal government does deserve
24:28
Speaker 7: some of the whack when it comes to what happened here.
24:30
Speaker 8: But that's not not to where we have to wear.
24:33
Speaker 6: I think everyone has a Partmase.
24:35
Speaker 1: But look, I think the point that's really worth making
24:37
Speaker 1: as well is that we hear so often from the
24:39
Speaker 1: Northern Territory government. I know that even when I spoke
24:42
Speaker 1: to the Chief Minister last Wednesday about some other issues,
24:45
Speaker 1: you know, we very often speak about funding and very
24:48
Speaker 1: often speak about needs based funding and all that kind
24:50
Speaker 1: of stuff, and I get that, but we're also in
24:52
Speaker 1: a situation right now. We're two hundred and fifty million
24:55
Speaker 1: dollars has been earmarked for our Springs. Yet when I
24:59
Speaker 1: spoke to the principal of the Yipper and Your Primary
25:01
Speaker 1: school last Friday, Gavin Morris, he had said to me
25:03
Speaker 1: on the show, Katie, since the last time we spoke,
25:06
Speaker 1: which was earlier this year, there have been students at
25:09
Speaker 1: the school that have been assaulted, There have been staff
25:12
Speaker 1: members from the school that have been involved in domestic violence.
25:16
Speaker 1: There has been dangerous situations that people from the school
25:20
Speaker 1: have been in and that you know that time is
25:23
Speaker 1: of the essence and this is I think what the community,
25:26
Speaker 1: whether it's Alice Springs, whether it's Darwin, no matter where
25:29
Speaker 1: it is right now that we're all screaming out for.
25:32
Speaker 1: We understand that the federal government does need to assist
25:35
Speaker 1: with that needs based funding right across the board, whether
25:38
Speaker 1: you're talking about domestic violence, whether you're talking about the
25:41
Speaker 1: issues that we've got with you know, with our youths
25:43
Speaker 1: doing the wrong thing. But we also need to actually
25:47
Speaker 1: push the politics aside for five minutes and sort this
25:50
Speaker 1: business out because what's going on is not good enough.
25:53
Speaker 1: We're losing good people because it just continues.
25:57
Speaker 3: On Themester came here where all the stuff that was
26:01
Speaker 3: happening back in January, and it was a critical issue,
26:04
Speaker 3: and I made that announcewer of that two hundred and
26:05
Speaker 3: fifty million dollars to immediately address some of the issues
26:09
Speaker 3: here in Alice. We're three or four months on. We
26:13
Speaker 3: haven't seen a brass razoo yet and we're waiting for
26:17
Speaker 3: a federal budget and then the money is going to
26:19
Speaker 3: be given to the territory government to allocate. So how
26:21
Speaker 3: long is it going to take that money to actually
26:23
Speaker 3: get the ground. But what's I think the more interesting
26:26
Speaker 3: thing is where is that money going to go. We've
26:28
Speaker 3: been asking the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister's office
26:31
Speaker 3: where that money is going to go. We've asked for
26:33
Speaker 3: an order of how the funding is going to be used.
26:36
Speaker 3: We've got crickets on that we've not heard anything back,
26:40
Speaker 3: and the people, particularly of Alice Springs. I don't know
26:42
Speaker 3: where that money is going to go and what's going
26:43
Speaker 3: to be used for.
26:45
Speaker 6: I mean, listen, I don't know. I'll answer what I
26:47
Speaker 6: can build, but I mean, at the end of the day,
26:49
Speaker 6: if you're re implementing the equivalent of stronger futures, that
26:51
Speaker 6: some of that funding will go back to funding those
26:53
Speaker 6: resources that implement and reintroduce that. But I'm happy to
26:57
Speaker 6: take that on notice again.
26:58
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to the discussion that we
27:00
Speaker 1: had with Marian Scrimjaw earlier in the week, so Lingyrimp.
27:03
Speaker 1: Marian Scrimjaw's called on the Northern Territory government to establish
27:06
Speaker 1: a Queensland style Family Responsibilities Commission with the power to
27:10
Speaker 1: enforce compulsory income management where children are being neglected. Now.
27:15
Speaker 1: The comments come in response to what she called irresponsible
27:19
Speaker 1: publicity seeking claims of rampant child sexual abuse in Alice Springs,
27:23
Speaker 1: but also you know the issues that they've got in
27:26
Speaker 1: Alice Springs. She said there's a whole generation of young
27:29
Speaker 1: people out there who've grown up with that shadow over
27:32
Speaker 1: their innocent fathers and uncles and grandfather's heads that is
27:35
Speaker 1: following on from the intervention and said that the resulting
27:39
Speaker 1: social unraveling contributes to the crime that we're seeing in
27:42
Speaker 1: Alice Springs today. She reckons it's now time for an
27:45
Speaker 1: initiative similar to the Family Responsibility Commission that we have
27:50
Speaker 1: got in Queensland, and that families where children who aren't
27:54
Speaker 1: being properly protected or cared for can be income managed
27:57
Speaker 1: and made subject to coor intervention by relevant agency.
28:03
Speaker 6: Just before everyone jumps in in the twenty twenty one
28:05
Speaker 6: Youth Justice Amendment Bill, changes that we made reintroduce family
28:10
Speaker 6: responsibility agreements at the court level. Now I don't have
28:12
Speaker 6: the data on how many of those have been issued.
28:13
Speaker 6: I'm happy to take that on notice and get it
28:15
Speaker 6: to you, Katie, but we've absolutely put the policy framework
28:17
Speaker 6: in place to do it. This comes down. Hey on
28:19
Speaker 6: you're on the phone.
28:21
Speaker 8: You said one.
28:24
Speaker 6: I'm happy to come back to you with the details,
28:25
Speaker 6: like the numbers on it, Katie. But what I would
28:27
Speaker 6: say is that this comes back to the interpretation piece.
28:29
Speaker 6: The agencies and those need to use the legislation policy
28:32
Speaker 6: framework these there to enact that change.
28:35
Speaker 1: Keep hearing though, is that you guys keep going, oh,
28:37
Speaker 1: we're doing this, We've done this, we've done that.
28:39
Speaker 2: So you're not accepting that things have turned to shit.
28:43
Speaker 6: I just agree before it's not where we would.
28:45
Speaker 2: Like it to be working.
28:46
Speaker 1: So you might have those things in place, but it's
28:49
Speaker 1: not working.
28:50
Speaker 5: Pattie in regards to I didn't hear the comments from
28:53
Speaker 5: marriage Scrimdele. But the anti government can set up a
28:57
Speaker 5: Children's Health Commission or whatever issues calling it.
29:00
Speaker 2: They can do it.
29:00
Speaker 5: Of course they can do it, and as happens in Queensland,
29:03
Speaker 5: it's up then to the various government agencies to refer.
29:06
Speaker 5: Now that would require our interi government agencies actually talking
29:10
Speaker 5: to each other and working together. Heaven forbid they could
29:13
Speaker 5: do that. So you've got to have education talking with
29:16
Speaker 5: families and territory families for example. Now I've had issues,
29:20
Speaker 5: not my personal issues in the rule are where Education
29:22
Speaker 5: Department won't release information at a school level to help
29:26
Speaker 5: students in trouble and in need because churching famili said,
29:28
Speaker 5: oh we.
29:28
Speaker 4: Can't tell you that.
29:29
Speaker 5: So this can work and it probably isn't a bad idea,
29:32
Speaker 5: but it relies to agencies to talk to each other.
29:35
Speaker 7: That's exactly what Marian Scrimms is proposing. What is already
29:38
Speaker 7: in place in Northern Queensland, and it does. It's the departments.
29:42
Speaker 7: So if kids not going to school, the Education Department
29:45
Speaker 7: reports to the Family Responsibility Commission and says Hey, Katie
29:48
Speaker 7: Wolf's kids aren't going to school, and the commission.
29:53
Speaker 6: Families managed. So it's territory families as responsibility as I
29:56
Speaker 6: understand it, to manage those family responsibility agreements and all
29:58
Speaker 6: the people stretch. And then we have the Children's Commissioner.
30:03
Speaker 7: We don't she's been on leave for more than two years,
30:06
Speaker 7: and that she is another crisis in this place that
30:08
Speaker 7: needs to be children. It is an absolute disgrace someone
30:12
Speaker 7: who looked into these issues, who did damning reports into
30:16
Speaker 7: youth detention, into child protection, and then I probably can't
30:19
Speaker 7: say what I really think about what happened to her
30:22
Speaker 7: from a legal perspective, But she is still on leave
30:25
Speaker 7: and we need back at tomorrow.
30:27
Speaker 6: It's commissioner, regardless of who is or is not in
30:29
Speaker 6: the role, the organization that is there to do what
30:32
Speaker 6: they have to do. That is their part they play
30:34
Speaker 6: in this. And this is what I'm saying. And you
30:36
Speaker 6: don't want to add another level of matt. You don't
30:38
Speaker 6: want to add another level of bureaucracy that will actually
30:41
Speaker 6: stifle the ability to influence change. We've got the processes
30:44
Speaker 6: and the departments in place, probably could do better coordination.
30:47
Speaker 6: Keys Yet I absolutely don't disagree with you on that.
30:49
Speaker 6: I agree we can do better coordination across the board.
30:51
Speaker 7: Now, how many own investigation initiatives? How many own investigation
30:58
Speaker 7: initiatives have been published by the Office of the Children's
31:01
Speaker 7: Commissioner since Colin Gwinn went on leave?
31:04
Speaker 2: No, no, don't think zero zero.
31:06
Speaker 6: Yeah, listen, you know I'm not going to comment. I
31:09
Speaker 6: don't know how many of you. Just tell me it's
31:10
Speaker 6: zero and.
31:11
Speaker 8: I have two in the works. They tell me, okay,
31:13
Speaker 8: it's zero.
31:14
Speaker 6: But that's what that organization is there. If they're not
31:16
Speaker 6: doing that right, that we can look into that. But
31:17
Speaker 6: we've got enough bureaucracy and organizations to work in this.
31:20
Speaker 1: Well, look do we I mean, if you've got the
31:22
Speaker 1: because I'm just being sad, you might do things a
31:26
Speaker 1: bit differently.
31:26
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna say I'll call it very early.
31:29
Speaker 1: Marion Scrimdaw was on the money when the Stronger futures,
31:32
Speaker 1: you know, when we had the ending of the stronger futures. Now,
31:34
Speaker 1: also at the beginning of the year, she was stepping
31:37
Speaker 1: up and she was going against what the Labor Party
31:40
Speaker 1: here locally was saying. She was stepping away from the
31:42
Speaker 1: northern territory government and saying no, we actually need alcohol
31:46
Speaker 1: restrictions in place. We need to make sure that we're
31:49
Speaker 1: doing more. And she's doing that again right now. And
31:53
Speaker 1: if I was a betting woman, I would say that
31:54
Speaker 1: she's in the ear of her federal counterparts saying that
31:58
Speaker 1: more needs to be done.
31:59
Speaker 2: That's fine, but I don't want to.
32:00
Speaker 9: See THEE come in again Marion on the But what's
32:05
Speaker 9: really interesting, though, is all people can all be referred
32:08
Speaker 9: to income management under our legislation.
32:11
Speaker 3: Today by child protection workers or social workers, all for
32:14
Speaker 3: being on the BDR and a territory. Is that actually happening?
32:18
Speaker 3: So the stuff wire it exists, are we doing it
32:20
Speaker 3: our territory families using the tools that are available to
32:24
Speaker 3: them at the moment?
32:25
Speaker 5: Bill They might be under resourced and not have the
32:27
Speaker 5: relevant number of stuff like our police, so they probably
32:30
Speaker 5: can do it, but they probably don't have enough people
32:32
Speaker 5: to do it.
32:33
Speaker 1: Well, Look, we're going to take a very short break.
32:35
Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty.
32:37
Speaker 2: It is the week that was.
32:39
Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
32:43
Speaker 1: It is just nineteen minutes away from ten o'clock and
32:46
Speaker 1: well on the phone line down in Alice Springs, we've
32:48
Speaker 1: got Bill Yan for the colp. In the studio, we've
32:51
Speaker 1: got Matt Cunningham, Keesy Epuric and Brent Potter. Now, the
32:54
Speaker 1: story which has indeed been dominating, i should say headlines
33:00
Speaker 1: over the last few weeks is the fact that the
33:01
Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Commissioner, Jamie Chalker is not going to
33:05
Speaker 1: be returning to work. I think that we've all sort
33:07
Speaker 1: of seen that happen throughout this week after launching court
33:10
Speaker 1: action against the Northern Territory Government over his position.
33:15
Speaker 2: Now, in a.
33:15
Speaker 1: Statement earlier in the week, on the day that the
33:18
Speaker 1: Commissioner was due to return to work after taking pre
33:21
Speaker 1: approved leave, the Chief Minister confirmed that he remains on
33:25
Speaker 1: leave and has said we can probably all almost read
33:29
Speaker 1: this statement out ourselves. As I've said previously, we've been
33:32
Speaker 1: in negotiations with mister Chalker. This week a matter was
33:35
Speaker 1: commenced in the Supreme Court and I'm aware of reports
33:38
Speaker 1: discussing that matter, but will not provide comments as the
33:42
Speaker 1: matter is currently before the court.
33:45
Speaker 2: So as we.
33:46
Speaker 1: All know, Michael Murphy acting in the role at this
33:49
Speaker 1: point in time, and it's very much unclear when commission
33:52
Speaker 1: at Chalker or if he's going to return to work
33:56
Speaker 1: at this point.
33:58
Speaker 4: I'll say something clearly.
34:03
Speaker 5: Without prejudicing anything that's before the courts at the moment,
34:07
Speaker 5: but clearly there wasn't and hasn't been any Well, there
34:09
Speaker 5: might have been some talks, but I don't think there's
34:11
Speaker 5: been any mediation because otherwise mister Chalker's team wouldn't have.
34:14
Speaker 2: Taken it to the Supreme Court. So you'd think the
34:16
Speaker 2: fact that what's happened.
34:17
Speaker 8: Is perhaps failed mediation.
34:21
Speaker 4: Mediation, I have no.
34:22
Speaker 5: Doubt there's been talks between anti government and mister Chalk
34:26
Speaker 5: and his legal people via the list of the General's Office,
34:29
Speaker 5: but clearly it didn't work. So he believes that that's
34:33
Speaker 5: an appropriate course of action. So once it's gone into
34:34
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court, then it has to be dealt with.
34:36
Speaker 7: So it has to be settled before it gets into
34:39
Speaker 7: the Supreme Court. That I suspect is the option that
34:41
Speaker 7: the Northern Territory government would be hoping to achieve now.
34:44
Speaker 5: Because I well, I heard something I forget. Someone was
34:47
Speaker 5: a commentator on the media on TV was saying that
34:51
Speaker 5: blah blah blah in the court today, legal teams blah
34:53
Speaker 5: blah blah, and we've rejourned or whatever expression is to
34:56
Speaker 5: now go into settlement discussions. That's what was on the media.
34:59
Speaker 5: So this is there's a few days ago.
35:02
Speaker 7: But after that, after that there has now been three
35:04
Speaker 7: days set down the seventh of June for the matter
35:08
Speaker 7: to be heard before Justice Kelly.
35:09
Speaker 4: But it can still be mediate, it can be sorted
35:12
Speaker 4: out between.
35:12
Speaker 2: Now and then a street.
35:14
Speaker 1: I mean, surely the Northern Territory government had some kind
35:17
Speaker 1: of inkling that things may you know, it may go south,
35:20
Speaker 1: and that there may need to be a passion that
35:23
Speaker 1: there may need to be I don't know that there
35:25
Speaker 1: may be in this situation.
35:26
Speaker 5: That would involve doing some kind of risk assessment as
35:29
Speaker 5: to what if what if we asked the Police Commissioner
35:32
Speaker 5: to resign and he says no? So I think what
35:36
Speaker 5: and I've said this before about this current government is
35:38
Speaker 5: they have not understood and done risk assessments. They have
35:41
Speaker 5: not understood crisis management, and effectively, this is what we've
35:44
Speaker 5: got with this current situation with the Police Commission. Is
35:47
Speaker 5: a crisis, Well it's one of the many, Well, it's
35:49
Speaker 5: one of many crisis A soap opera.
35:56
Speaker 3: It's more like a soap opera. This is this is
35:58
Speaker 3: a complete embarrassment to them and.
36:00
Speaker 4: We're in a devestment around the country.
36:02
Speaker 3: The entire territory.
36:04
Speaker 2: I've got to tell you as well.
36:05
Speaker 1: I think, you know, the really big point to make
36:08
Speaker 1: in this discussion is that we've spoken a lot about
36:10
Speaker 1: police numbers and whether we've got enough police on the
36:12
Speaker 1: beat and police morale and the issues within the Northern
36:16
Speaker 1: Territory Police Force from that perspective, and that's something that
36:19
Speaker 1: we've been discussing for an incredibly long period of time.
36:23
Speaker 1: You know, we know, the Police Association had a survey
36:26
Speaker 1: towards the end of last year which showed that I
36:29
Speaker 1: believe it was sixty nine percent or seventy percent of
36:33
Speaker 1: those respondents said that they didn't have confidence in the
36:36
Speaker 1: Police Commissioner at that point in time.
36:37
Speaker 2: That was towards the end of last year.
36:39
Speaker 1: There has been you know, there's been issues when we
36:41
Speaker 1: talk about the numbers, and then when you talk about
36:43
Speaker 1: that discussion that we're having earlier in relation to you know,
36:47
Speaker 1: to people calling through or trying to get through to
36:49
Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police for different issues, and this is
36:52
Speaker 1: not a criticism of our rank and file officers in
36:55
Speaker 1: any way, because they.
36:55
Speaker 2: Work incredibly hard and I always.
37:00
Speaker 1: Take my hat off to them and the work that
37:01
Speaker 1: they do. But something's quite broken right now in not
37:07
Speaker 1: just not just through the discussions that we're having about
37:09
Speaker 1: trying to sort out the police commissioner situation, but in
37:13
Speaker 1: terms of you know, territorian's being concerned that they can't
37:16
Speaker 1: get the police out to different things where they need them.
37:19
Speaker 6: So clearly, I'm not going to comment what's before the court.
37:22
Speaker 6: What I would say is territories are a smart bunch
37:24
Speaker 6: of people and they can see what's occurring. I think
37:26
Speaker 6: most people have been involved industry relations disputes at some
37:29
Speaker 6: point in their life and they understand what's going on there.
37:31
Speaker 6: What I would say is that they are in capable
37:33
Speaker 6: hands with the deputies. You know, every organization as a structure,
37:36
Speaker 6: so if someone does go on holidays or pass away,
37:38
Speaker 6: or you know, all of the things that happen, you're
37:40
Speaker 6: still being let and I don't think that impacts the
37:42
Speaker 6: front line. Every day. They do an amazing job going
37:44
Speaker 6: to work because they want to catch bad people, you know,
37:46
Speaker 6: that's what they want to do. Protect Territorians and catch
37:47
Speaker 6: bad people. That doesn't change when they get into the car.
37:50
Speaker 6: In terms of addressing the systemic issues that have come
37:53
Speaker 6: up around police, we've got an electronic shift rostering system
37:56
Speaker 6: coming in later this year that is going to tell
37:57
Speaker 6: us where our gaps are. It's going to give us,
37:59
Speaker 6: you know, warts and all understanding of where the resources
38:01
Speaker 6: are being used. We are, i believe, getting very close to,
38:04
Speaker 6: if not finalized, the e b A with the union.
38:06
Speaker 6: It was a good offer that was put to them.
38:08
Speaker 6: They endorsed that to their to their members. It's going
38:11
Speaker 6: to see them get the pay increase, it's going to
38:13
Speaker 6: see them get shiftloading. It's going to see a bunch
38:15
Speaker 6: of you know, things they've been asking for for a
38:17
Speaker 6: very long time. And it's also giving the government some
38:18
Speaker 6: of the things that we have asked for in relation
38:20
Speaker 6: to getting police back to work. Territorians will see a change.
38:24
Speaker 6: It's not going to happen tomorrow, but you know, we
38:25
Speaker 6: shouldn't have them. We should not be having the same
38:27
Speaker 6: discussions going into next year. And I think the review
38:30
Speaker 6: that the independent review, the independent review that we're going
38:34
Speaker 6: to have, which was an outcome from that negotiation, will
38:37
Speaker 6: give exactly what territories have asked the before Bill jumps
38:40
Speaker 6: up and says, we've been asking for a parliamentary review.
38:42
Speaker 6: I don't believe in paying parliamentarians to sit on another
38:44
Speaker 6: parliamentary review. Let's get an independent one.
38:47
Speaker 8: He's doing the independent review.
38:49
Speaker 6: I can definitely get that. So we need them to
38:52
Speaker 6: sign up to the EBA and agreed to it to
38:54
Speaker 6: them progressive, but we've agreed and to do an independent
38:56
Speaker 6: review in the.
38:57
Speaker 4: Police after the EBA settled.
38:59
Speaker 6: Well, it's a part of the e b A as
39:01
Speaker 6: in you if you agree the ABA will do this,
39:02
Speaker 6: you do that.
39:03
Speaker 7: This is almost what Mark Turner has been calling for
39:05
Speaker 7: for quite a while.
39:07
Speaker 8: Is that right?
39:08
Speaker 6: A royal commission at one point? I don't think it's
39:10
Speaker 6: at the point of a royal commission.
39:11
Speaker 2: To be honest for a commission level yea at all.
39:13
Speaker 8: But what's it going to look into the review?
39:16
Speaker 5: Well, we don't know because they won't tell us.
39:21
Speaker 6: Again, going back to e BA, is there between between
39:23
Speaker 6: the organization and the union and when we settle that,
39:26
Speaker 6: it'll all become public right like everyone understands as a
39:28
Speaker 6: process in industrial relations.
39:29
Speaker 1: So we're only going to do a review if they
39:32
Speaker 1: agree to the e b A. You guys don't think
39:33
Speaker 1: that it's that it's worth doing.
39:36
Speaker 6: Can I be honest? I don't think we go on
39:38
Speaker 6: right and be talking about this, you know, if we
39:39
Speaker 6: weren't committed to doing a review either way. But obviously
39:42
Speaker 6: it's just part of the that was going to be
39:44
Speaker 6: there and they and to be fair, the union has
39:46
Speaker 6: done a great job for their members in advocating and
39:48
Speaker 6: bringing us part of the negotiation.
39:49
Speaker 8: Will it be someone from you to state who's brought
39:51
Speaker 8: in to do the review?
39:52
Speaker 6: You know, let's ask the nt b A who that
39:53
Speaker 6: what they're thinking about it. Once we settle the e
39:55
Speaker 6: b A, you know, there'll be everyone will get a
39:57
Speaker 6: choice on who's I'm sure both.
39:59
Speaker 5: Parties the retired judges that the police commissioner wanted, Well.
40:03
Speaker 1: Look, we might take a We are going to have
40:06
Speaker 1: to take a very short break. There is still plenty
40:09
Speaker 1: to cover off coming your way right here on three
40:11
Speaker 1: point sixty. You are listening to the week that was
40:14
Speaker 1: and in the studio with us this morning. We've got
40:16
Speaker 1: Brent Potter, Kezier Puric, Matt Cunningham and Bill Yan on
40:20
Speaker 1: the phone line in Alice Springs. Bill I promise that
40:22
Speaker 1: it's not Brent turning off your phone now. I do
40:32
Speaker 1: want to actually talk about this situation out at Howard
40:36
Speaker 1: Springs because we had a bit of a revelation. I
40:39
Speaker 1: think you have believe well from the Deputy Chief Minister
40:42
Speaker 1: on nine News earlier in the week where she had
40:45
Speaker 1: said yes, there had been damage done.
40:49
Speaker 2: Katie.
40:49
Speaker 5: That's very concerning because the Chief Minister on more than
40:52
Speaker 5: one occasion was very adamant it's just where and tear.
40:56
Speaker 5: Deputy Chief Minister come out and say hell no, it's
40:58
Speaker 5: been damaged like buggery, you know, and it looks like
41:06
Speaker 5: that's rural speak for significant.
41:10
Speaker 2: The distinguishers were all turned on and wrecked and played with.
41:13
Speaker 5: The hoses were pulled out, the fire hoses, the mattresses
41:16
Speaker 5: were all turfed out. There's been skip bins out there
41:19
Speaker 5: taking away rubbish. I don't know there's skip bins out
41:21
Speaker 5: there because I know the company that supplied the skip.
41:23
Speaker 4: Bins to take away the rubbish.
41:24
Speaker 5: Everyone who's done work out there don't ask me how
41:26
Speaker 5: they've ever done it, but you know the contractors and
41:29
Speaker 5: the people doing what they're doing out there. Obviously can't talk,
41:32
Speaker 5: can't take pictures, et cetera. But clearly there has been
41:35
Speaker 5: damage and serious damage and if it's miters of dollars
41:37
Speaker 5: to repair, there's a there's a tender out at the
41:39
Speaker 5: moment to the beds for the beds one hundred thousand
41:44
Speaker 5: just just for the beds, not even the linen and
41:48
Speaker 5: the repet good for the trade is they're going to
41:51
Speaker 5: be doing a roaring trade over the next few months
41:52
Speaker 5: to get it up to speed.
41:53
Speaker 4: So the defense, this is.
41:55
Speaker 2: The big thing.
41:55
Speaker 1: We we don't know just how much damage has been caused.
42:00
Speaker 1: And the Deputy Chief Minister did tell nine News Star
42:02
Speaker 1: and this cruise will be going in I think early
42:04
Speaker 1: this next week.
42:06
Speaker 5: Have we got broken ranks within the Labor Party cabinet.
42:10
Speaker 5: One says yes, one says no, one says no damage,
42:13
Speaker 5: one says biggest mobile damage.
42:17
Speaker 6: Everyone in the studio's eyeballing me says question.
42:20
Speaker 7: There's a bit of angst on your side of the
42:22
Speaker 7: Labor part and that right factional Labor page exactly.
42:27
Speaker 6: The Labor Party.
42:29
Speaker 2: There's factions in the Labor Party.
42:32
Speaker 4: Are you on the right side of.
42:33
Speaker 8: The right side? Do the diagram for your lab at
42:41
Speaker 8: the moment.
42:44
Speaker 6: What I would say, Katie is you know We don't
42:46
Speaker 6: want one brush to tarnish everyone. You know, I've heard
42:49
Speaker 6: the reports that every territory and has heard. I don't
42:51
Speaker 6: get briefed on this. If there is the damage anywhere
42:54
Speaker 6: near what the reports are saying, it's disgusting behavior. And
42:57
Speaker 6: I hope the police investigating those individuals are accountable for
42:59
Speaker 6: the damage to do.
43:00
Speaker 1: But what I would minister come out and say that,
43:02
Speaker 1: because that's exactly what people expect to hear. You know,
43:05
Speaker 1: like people are going, well, if you're disrupting every other
43:07
Speaker 1: person that's staying out there, that's doing the right thing,
43:10
Speaker 1: and they're actually trying to, you know, to manage their children,
43:13
Speaker 1: manage their lives while being away from their homes, why
43:16
Speaker 1: should we accept crappy behavior where a small minority are
43:20
Speaker 1: doing the wrong thing. And why mission the Chief Minister
43:24
Speaker 1: was making it sound like she was almost trying to
43:26
Speaker 1: protect these people that have done the wrong thing.
43:28
Speaker 6: Listen, Katie. Like I said, I don't get the briefs,
43:30
Speaker 6: and she may know something I don't, and I didn't
43:32
Speaker 6: hear an interview unfortunately, but you know, no one should
43:35
Speaker 6: have to put up with that type of behavior and damage.
43:36
Speaker 6: I mean dollars, Listen, our tax TERRITORIANUS tax dollars. I mean,
43:41
Speaker 6: we pulled people out from a flood zone, doing the
43:43
Speaker 6: right thing in good faith for Territoris, as you would expect.
43:45
Speaker 4: Anyone to do it anytime, right anywhere.
43:47
Speaker 6: Any damage is unacceptable, especially if it's intentional and criminal
43:51
Speaker 6: damage is just unacceptable. But I don't get the briefs
43:53
Speaker 6: that they get, so I couldn't comment on what they
43:55
Speaker 6: have or haven't been told.
43:56
Speaker 2: Okay, Bill, you go.
43:57
Speaker 3: There trying to justify the damage, saying people that have
44:01
Speaker 3: been in natural disasters, it might be normal for them
44:04
Speaker 3: to go and break stuff and smashed up up right?
44:08
Speaker 3: Is that comment?
44:09
Speaker 6: I didn't hear that. But I just don't want that.
44:11
Speaker 6: There were good people in there that have you know,
44:13
Speaker 6: I don't want them being changed, and.
44:14
Speaker 2: Nobody is.
44:18
Speaker 1: That. Nobody is saying that everybody that is in Howard
44:21
Speaker 1: Springs that's been evacuated from terrible situations, the large majority
44:26
Speaker 1: have done the right thing. If they hadn't, you know,
44:29
Speaker 1: we've been a much worse off situation. But it's a
44:31
Speaker 1: small minority that have done the wrong.
44:33
Speaker 4: Thing, and it's a fair damage to minority.
44:36
Speaker 1: You reckon, Yeah, Well, and look, we don't know that,
44:39
Speaker 1: you know, we don't know exactly how many people.
44:40
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and we've all asked.
44:43
Speaker 1: I believe that Kathleen Gazola is asked if she can
44:46
Speaker 1: go out there next week.
44:47
Speaker 2: I'd heard at that press conference, Matt, I'm.
44:48
Speaker 4: Sure nex week.
44:52
Speaker 6: Why don't think your chiefs come out and said next
44:53
Speaker 6: week that you know, everyone there there will be repatriated
44:55
Speaker 6: home and the facility be closing up, So you know,
44:57
Speaker 6: people will be going back to their community, and you
45:00
Speaker 6: know some may want to stay, but the reality is
45:02
Speaker 6: that facility will close as of next week. It's been
45:05
Speaker 6: months now so and be repaired.
45:07
Speaker 3: Are trying to cover up what's going on outter That's
45:09
Speaker 3: That's that's what I want to know. I think all territoryings.
45:12
Speaker 3: When I'm not the chief in saying that's where and
45:14
Speaker 3: teen and you've got the Deputy chief in saying there's
45:17
Speaker 3: belicious stamack, what's the go with the cover up? What
45:20
Speaker 3: what is government trying to hide out there? That's that's
45:23
Speaker 3: what people are asking me every day, and I think
45:25
Speaker 3: everybody wants to know that answer to that particular.
45:28
Speaker 1: Question, particularly after the Chief Minister had said that it
45:31
Speaker 1: was wear and tear.
45:32
Speaker 5: That's right, So there's there's a credibility issue there again.
45:35
Speaker 5: But I think also the fact that the Deputy Chief
45:38
Speaker 5: Minister came out and completely contradicted the Chief Minister.
45:40
Speaker 2: So that they're not in syne you guys would love
45:45
Speaker 2: it to be.
45:45
Speaker 6: But I can say I have.
45:47
Speaker 5: Great, great respect for both of them, but obviously they're
45:49
Speaker 5: not on the same hymn page.
45:52
Speaker 2: Not singing off the same sheet.
45:53
Speaker 4: No, and it is.
45:54
Speaker 5: It is very clear because it's a small town and
45:56
Speaker 5: there's enough people who work there and enough contractors who
45:58
Speaker 5: have been servicing the place, both as a normal course
46:01
Speaker 5: of servicing that kind of facility plus going into repair
46:04
Speaker 5: the damage. Now the question has to be asked, yes,
46:08
Speaker 5: this has happened. Yes, it's a group of people, persons unknown,
46:11
Speaker 5: that have created all these problems and damage. But there
46:14
Speaker 5: is no doubt we're going to get floods again in
46:16
Speaker 5: the past and people will need to be evacuated. I
46:18
Speaker 5: mean daily river springs to mind all the time. And
46:20
Speaker 5: we've never had this issue at Fosky. There's been a
46:22
Speaker 5: bit of damage at Fosky when they've been relocated there,
46:24
Speaker 5: just from overuse and wear and tear. That kind of stuff,
46:28
Speaker 5: but they were more short termed when they've stayed at Fosky.
46:31
Speaker 5: But because of Howard Springs being what it is, that
46:34
Speaker 5: was obviously a good choice because they're going to be
46:35
Speaker 5: there long. So the question has to be asked, if
46:37
Speaker 5: let's say this community is evacuated again and coming back
46:40
Speaker 5: to let's say to Howard Springs or part of how
46:42
Speaker 5: It Springs, are we going to see a repeat of
46:44
Speaker 5: this behavior.
46:45
Speaker 6: Now we've agreed to do We're going to do it
46:47
Speaker 6: after action review on all of this. You know, after
46:49
Speaker 6: any natural disaster event, you have to do it, and
46:51
Speaker 6: I think those things will be flushed out and you
46:52
Speaker 6: know there will be an understanding of what's actually occurred
46:56
Speaker 6: out there. Like I said, I don't get the brief,
46:57
Speaker 6: so I can't comment on that to a young name
46:59
Speaker 6: made public and I don't. I don't even know who's
47:01
Speaker 6: going to do it at the moment, but there will
47:02
Speaker 6: be when we do what we have to do. One
47:03
Speaker 6: under the National.
47:04
Speaker 5: Katie some months ago, it's not maybe a year or
47:06
Speaker 5: two ago now, when Impects handed over the facility to
47:08
Speaker 5: the anti government. I did a question on notice to
47:10
Speaker 5: find out how much it was costing to maintain that
47:12
Speaker 5: facility between power and water, the swimming pool, air conditioning, security,
47:16
Speaker 5: lawn landscape, et cetera. And I think it was it
47:20
Speaker 5: was working out to be a couple of hundred million,
47:22
Speaker 5: A couple of million a year. Yeah, okay, And you
47:24
Speaker 5: can say, well that's a lot of money, but you know,
47:25
Speaker 5: it's a big facility.
47:26
Speaker 2: It's worth if we're able to use it.
47:28
Speaker 5: And that's right, and it's available asset, so I may
47:31
Speaker 5: well have to do another question. I think it will
47:33
Speaker 5: the relevant minister to find out what was damaged, how
47:36
Speaker 5: many rooms, how many fire extinguishes, how many fire reels,
47:40
Speaker 5: was stuff chucked into the swimming pool, how many doors
47:43
Speaker 5: have to replace?
47:43
Speaker 4: And what is the cost?
47:44
Speaker 2: One hundred Territorians deserve to know. It is a public
47:47
Speaker 2: accent there. I'll send those questions into the government and they.
47:49
Speaker 4: Will have to answer.
47:51
Speaker 6: We do have estimates coming up as well, so there
47:52
Speaker 6: is that purrey time to ask those questions. And you're right, Cadie,
47:55
Speaker 6: Territorians don't deserve that kind of behavior. But there are
47:57
Speaker 6: a good group of people.
47:58
Speaker 5: And so who is the responsible minister for the repair bill?
48:01
Speaker 6: That's a good question, but I can find I don't
48:04
Speaker 6: know who I am.
48:04
Speaker 1: We are going to have to wrap up though, billyh
48:07
Speaker 1: down in Alice Springs, thanks so much for your time
48:09
Speaker 1: this morning.
48:09
Speaker 3: Mate nowers at all. Thank you, Katy, Thanks everybody.
48:13
Speaker 1: Thanks Matt Cunningham from Sky News, thank you for your
48:16
Speaker 1: time this morning. Thanks Katie Kezier Pure the Independent, remember
48:20
Speaker 1: for going to Thank you.
48:21
Speaker 2: And Brent Potter, the member for Fanny Bays, thank you
48:23
Speaker 2: for your time.
48:24
Speaker 6: Thanks Katie.
48:25
Speaker 2: We'll catch you all again very soon