Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 138. Freedom to Start Over

Transcript

138. Freedom to Start Over · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:02
Welcome back to the Freedom Podcast, Brett.
0:05
We are coming out of our summer break and it has been a an
0:10
eventful summer. From ministry to the world,
0:15
politics to just family man. We've been traveling and
0:20
enjoying our time together, been able to see friends and family
0:24
and it has been a wonderful summer.
0:27
My kids started back to school Wednesday and we are back into
0:33
our, what I say, normal life, but you know where kids are away
0:36
and going. We've had some some things in
0:39
the church, good things, some some negative as far as death in
0:42
the church recently. And so we are definitely
0:45
plugging away with ministry. I love the topic that we're
0:48
going to talk about today because it hits in a couple of
0:51
different ways. But before we get into that, how
0:55
has your summer been, my friend? Man, it's amazing how during the
0:59
summer, first thing that happens during the summer in church is
1:04
people scatter, People go all over, they go on trips, they're
1:08
going this, they go this, they're playing this ball,
1:10
they're going on this over here. And then the busyness.
1:14
We just get all these things together.
1:15
We get vacation Bible school. And then this year we actually
1:20
not only did our vacation Bible school, we actually went one
1:23
county over to a church that's going through a revitalization
1:28
and we did a vacation Bible school for them.
1:30
They wanted to do one, but they didn't have the manpower to pull
1:34
it off. So we went over and helped them
1:37
decorate and we did the classes for them and really helped them,
1:41
got them a lot of new contacts. You know, they were 32 kids at
1:46
that vacation Bible school. 22 of those kids didn't have a
1:50
church home or put that church as their home.
1:54
So a lot of good contacts for the pastor to go visit.
1:57
And I was glad to be able to help them do that.
2:01
But yeah, we're just, you know, we're getting back into what I
2:04
say, get back into the swing of things, get back into a routine,
2:08
settling back in now that the school year has started and
2:13
hopefully we can get some of our people to, you know, just settle
2:16
back into routines. But we're looking forward and
2:19
it's not over yet. We got a mission trip coming up
2:21
in a few weeks, going to Nicaragua with your church,
2:24
actually, and that we're looking forward to that.
2:27
September is a a busy month for us.
2:30
But man, it's just ministry life, you know, You never know
2:33
what you're going to get when it comes summertime.
2:36
That's exactly right. And I mean, I'm looking forward
2:38
to our mission trip to Nicaragua with Lee, with United Christian
2:42
Missions. What a great time that's going
2:44
to be to be able to mentor and help down there in Nicaragua,
2:49
mentor those pastors, our team of that's coming from both of
2:52
our churches to just be able to have a wonderful time together.
2:56
And man, I am excited about leaving the country with you.
3:00
And then in just a short couple of weeks after that, I say a
3:03
couple weeks, but I mean it really is just a couple weeks.
3:06
We'll be at our RFP meet up and we'll be jumping into Lake Oak
3:12
Fork. Is that how I said or over?
3:14
For Fort Oglethorpe fork. Oak Fork.
3:17
I can't even say it right, but we're going.
3:20
To be down there, Catoosa. Yeah, we're going to be down in
3:22
Catoosa. It's going to be a great time
3:24
and hopefully you'll be down there.
3:25
We are planning on doing a five to six week RFP mash up.
3:31
We did this several years ago where we brought the network
3:34
together and did a different episode with each and every
3:38
network host and looking forward to that.
3:41
Already been lining up dates and times with them to record.
3:44
And so we hope you'll enjoy that as well.
3:47
And then after that, Brett, first of the year will be coming
3:51
around 2025. As of right now, what do we have
3:53
planned? As of right now, we are planning
3:57
on, we're planning on going to Israel.
4:00
Things are still, you know, unless that changes, we'll keep
4:03
you updated on that. You know, we're looking forward
4:06
to that and hopefully we'll be able to go and it just depends
4:09
on it's a wait and see game, but we're all looking forward to
4:12
that. I'm always looking forward to
4:14
going through the promised land and hopefully we can get that
4:18
worked out. Absolutely, absolutely.
4:21
Well, Brett, without further ado, because I have been itching
4:25
to get back into the hot seat and to be able to record again.
4:28
And man, I, I love taking our breaks.
4:31
But after about a month been away, it's like, man, I'm ready
4:34
to get back. I'm ready to record.
4:35
I'm ready to put some stuff out. Lord works with me and begins to
4:39
give me ideas and thoughts. And I just, I'm excited about
4:41
jumping back in and especially about our topic today, freedom
4:45
to start over and what that looks like, how that works in
4:49
our life. And so, without further ado,
4:51
let's jump into this episode today.
4:54
Let's go. I do not mean to be mean.
4:57
I do mean. To be mad.
5:00
Those that criticize this kind of preaching.
5:02
They don't like a thorn. If you ain't got the King James,
5:06
you ain't got, hey, you don't have a King James, you don't
5:09
have a Bible. Be surprised, son.
5:14
Don't go to sleep while I'm talking.
5:16
Hey, hey, hey. Don't, don't.
5:17
Don't you lay your head back. I'm.
5:19
I'm important. I'm somebody.
5:21
I love you. You know I love you.
5:23
And I convinced you I love you. Yeah.
5:25
You better say. You better nod your head.
5:27
Yes. Sorry.
5:27
Come on, put it up there. All right?
5:29
You stay awake and you listen to me.
5:34
I still believe if you're cold in hell.
5:36
Before I get my family for a moment, I'm a preacher.
5:49
When you got dressed today, you dressed deity.
5:56
This is the Four Freedom Podcast, a podcast that is part
6:00
of the RFP Network that seeks to bring freedom in Christ from the
6:04
spiritual abuse of legalism. And so fundamentalism is
6:15
designed to unpack the idea of authority from Scripture.
6:19
The problem with that is that that's not the defining
6:22
principle in Scripture. It is a part of Scripture.
6:24
But the defining principle in Scripture is love.
6:54
I found my freedom in you. I found a toy.
7:00
I can't. Lose.
7:03
And thank God it's true. You wrapped your arms around me
7:07
and heaven broke through from the moment you found me.
7:12
I found my freedom in it. Welcome to the four freedom
7:17
podcast. This podcast exists to bring the
7:20
freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with
7:24
everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, James
7:27
Seyfried and Brett Morgan. Welcome back to the podcast and
7:35
it is great to be back. It's great to have that fun
7:39
little mash up of an intro and. My favorite, my favorite part is
7:44
the legacy quote from John. It's like, you know, you know
7:49
the old timer sticking to the old pass there.
7:52
That's right. I love it.
7:53
I think it's great. And so Brett, there's been this,
7:58
we, we've talked about it before.
7:59
We haven't necessarily talked about it with you, me and John
8:01
have, but there is this even now, I often forget people are
8:07
still leaving legalism. People are still leaving
8:10
fundamentalism and oppressive pastors.
8:14
And the often the, the thought and the, the struggle they have
8:19
is, well, where do I go from here?
8:20
How, how do I, how do I begin this journey again?
8:24
We covered some of these things back in the early days, back in
8:27
episode 30, and we talked through leaving a church.
8:31
And so we're going to rehash some of those things from a
8:33
fresh light for me and and you. It's been years since we left
8:37
legalism. I'm coming up on 9 or 10 years
8:39
now. And so there is this growth that
8:43
happens. We're going to give some
8:45
statements to help today, but these are some things that you
8:49
may hear once you leave legalism.
8:52
And let's talk to this first clip.
8:54
And then we're going to talk about we've got a song we're
8:56
going to play today and talk to that song and then give some
9:00
helps as well. And so as we get started, Brett,
9:03
before I play this clip, how how long have you been out of
9:06
legalism? What's what does it look like
9:08
for you as far as the old paths, the King James only Like how?
9:14
How long has it been for you since you've left in that era?
9:18
It has been eight years since I kind of left legalism.
9:23
It kind of started when I first became a senior pastor eight
9:28
years ago and that kind of started the process for me of
9:32
coming out of it. And it it wasn't just an instant
9:35
out. It took time to go through the
9:38
steps. It took time to progress and get
9:42
through that and, and come completely out.
9:46
Even within a a few years after I had left legalism, they were
9:52
still things in me that had to be beat out of me and had to be
9:58
processed out. I still had some wrong thinking
10:01
about things. Just takes time, you know, It
10:04
doesn't happen overnight and people don't need to be
10:07
discouraged that this process takes time.
10:11
It's very jarring. It'll shock your world.
10:14
It'll, you know, make you think that your world's falling down.
10:18
We constantly talk about the island.
10:21
It feels like you're on an island because you try to tell
10:24
normal people about the stuff that you've experienced and then
10:28
look at you like a Catholics at a new gate.
10:30
Like you know, you got 2 heads. Like what in the world are you
10:33
talking about? They can't relate to you at all.
10:36
And that's why it's so important to have a community of people
10:41
that you know, it's been through the same thing and through the
10:45
RFP network and this podcast, we've been able to reach out and
10:49
help so many people. I've had the opportunity to talk
10:52
to people, have reached out to me on social media and they've
10:55
hit me up on my DMS just asking for help.
10:59
And I've been able to help people process this thing.
11:02
And it's, it's a great thing to be able to help somebody come
11:06
out of legalism into the freedom of Christ.
11:09
Absolutely. You're exactly right.
11:11
And these are some things that you may hear as you are in a
11:15
legalistic church or even have left legalism altogether.
11:19
And so listen to this. I don't even know who this
11:22
pastor is, Brett. It's the the first first one you
11:25
sent me. Do you know his name?
11:27
Do you know who this? Is I do not.
11:29
So just give a listen to this. And of course, these are the
11:34
Christians. These are the Christians who
11:37
have compromised that use one particular word, legalist.
11:44
Legalist. In case you don't know, legalist
11:48
means to add something to salvation.
11:51
And so they're saying men of God, preachers who preach the
11:55
Bible as it is and preach the doctrine of separation from the
11:59
world, are legalist because they're adding something to
12:03
salvation. Baloney.
12:05
They know better than that, and they know they're not telling
12:07
the truth and their members are parroting them and they don't
12:12
understand what they're saying. Separation is not legalism,
12:19
right? Legalism is saying you got to be
12:20
baptized too, besides trusting Jesus or you got to give, you
12:25
got to give so much money to the church.
12:29
And that's where I sort of compromise.
12:39
You know Christians used to believe in faithful church
12:42
attendance on for Sunday school, Sunday morning, Sunday night,
12:45
Wednesday night. Do you know that all the.
12:47
Presbyterians used to have Sunday school.
12:49
They used to have Sunday night service.
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Do you know that Wednesday night service?
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Did you know the Methodist had Sunday school Sunday morning,
12:54
Sunday night, Wednesday night? You know the Nazarenes had
12:57
Sunday school Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night.
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You'd be very, very hard pressed to find any of those churches
13:06
that have Sunday school, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday
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night. Very hard.
13:10
There may be some be some yet Baptist churches.
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So he said legalism is not separation.
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Let's if you've been in a Baptist Church any amount of
13:22
time like I have, they love the Webster's dictionary, right?
13:26
And they love the the old school.
13:28
What this is what Webster has to say about legalism.
13:31
Strict literal or excessive conformality to the law or
13:36
religious or a moral code. It is literally this thought of
13:42
overbearing, this thought of taking and and ruling over
13:48
someone to conform to the way you want them to be.
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And so this is this is a tough thing because I think my nature,
13:57
you study scripture and we I thought to people even at my
14:01
church now they say, man, I love the Old Testament because I know
14:04
exactly what I'm supposed to do. Do this and don't do that.
14:09
Don't wear this, don't wear that.
14:12
Do go here because we like. Rules.
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We're made for rules. And so when we get to the New
14:17
Testament and Paul says, hey, you've got freedom, you you've
14:21
got the Holy Spirit to, to, to dwells in you, that gives you
14:24
freedom, that gives you liberty in Christ.
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Our spirit doesn't know how to do that.
14:29
Our spirit doesn't know how to deal with that.
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And so it is easy for us to make these statements of legalism and
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the statements of overbearing this.
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What's your thoughts on on that clip there, Brett?
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People love. Let me say a little bit about
14:45
what you just said. People love the Old Testament.
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They love the law. They love, tell me what to do
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and I'll do it. 10%, I'll give 10% of my income all day.
14:58
But you look at the old, for example, but you look at the Old
15:02
Testament, it's not just 10%. There were three different ties.
15:07
There was the food bank tie. There was a Levitical tie, there
15:11
was the feast tithe, and then you had all these little things
15:14
you had to do. It actually added up to more
15:16
like 23% if you want to do a one-on-one comparison.
15:20
So they say, oh, 10% like the Old Testament Saints.
15:23
But then we come to the New Testament and Paul doesn't give
15:27
a percentage. He says give as God has
15:31
prospered. You, you know, whatever you have
15:34
in your heart to give. So it's not a set rule.
15:38
Once again, we're Spirit LED. It's let the Spirit guide you.
15:43
Now if you're new to tithing, you can start out at 10%.
15:47
That's what Abraham and Jacob did in Genesis.
15:50
But when it comes down to actual giving, Paul says you let the
15:54
Holy Spirit guide you. It needs to be generous.
15:57
It needs to be sacrificial, but the Holy Spirit needs to guide
16:01
you on the amount. It's not a set amount.
16:04
It's the, it's because we live, we don't live by the letter of
16:06
the law anymore. We live by the Spirit.
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And that's what the New Testament's all about.
16:12
And in that clip, you know, it's so ingrained in independent
16:18
fundamental Baptists and legalists that that legalism,
16:21
their definition of legalism is just for salvation only.
16:25
Like you can only be a legalist when it comes to salvation.
16:30
They have no concept of legalism for sanctification, you know,
16:35
And so he even gets our position wrong when he says that, oh,
16:40
our, you know, that we say legalist, you have to do all
16:43
these things to add to salvation.
16:45
No, that's not what we're saying.
16:47
We're saying, you know, you follow all these rules to be
16:51
accepted by God. That is legalism.
16:55
All of these extra rules that you put on, all these extra
16:59
standards that aren't in the Bible, you've got higher
17:01
standards than God. You know, not for salvation, but
17:05
for sanctification. And then of course, when it gets
17:08
to the money, he jokes about the money.
17:10
Oh, I'm believable. It's when it comes to the money.
17:14
Then you got a tithe. And then he goes into the three
17:18
to thrive, you know, and I always, you know, it's three to
17:20
thrive because it it rhymes. But he's talking about Sunday
17:24
school, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night.
17:27
That's actually 4 to thrive. But man, not anything that the
17:32
Bible prescribes. What is he?
17:35
What does he throwback to? Oh, this is the way the
17:37
Presbyterians used to do it. This is the way the Nazarenes
17:41
used to do it back in the 50s and the 40s.
17:44
He doesn't appeal to Scripture. He appeals to tradition.
17:49
And that is just. That's on course for a legalist.
17:53
To quote Sir Brian Edwards, it is whatever error you overly
17:59
romanticize and you play over and over in your mind over and
18:03
over again. But I love, I love the thought
18:06
you just said. You said legalism in
18:09
sanctification. They don't have a clue in
18:12
because it's been ingrained to them to say legalism is
18:15
salvation. Outside of salvation, you can do
18:18
whatever you want. If you want to be an overbearing
18:20
pastor, if you want to be a rules pastor, like this is what
18:24
it's about. And oftentimes, Brett, I don't
18:27
know if you had this when you were coming out of legalism,
18:30
there was someone in your life that helped you, that guided
18:33
you, that was a good mentor. I had a couple.
18:36
I had John, of course, he helped me a lot.
18:38
My pastor, Mitch King, was a fantastic pastor to me, helped
18:44
grow me in a massive way when I've joined the church where I
18:49
was at and was on staff there. And part of that, some of this
18:53
is, is even older men that were dead, that were in their
18:56
biographies of books that helped lead me.
19:00
And oftentimes we have to ask ourselves, who is it that we are
19:05
holding the hand to of someone that's struggling?
19:08
And how can we hold their hand when they're struggling to start
19:11
over, when they're struggling, when they've been hurt, when
19:13
they don't know when, when their entire religious structure has
19:16
been flipped on its head because their eyes have finally been
19:20
opened? How can we help them?
19:23
And oftentimes they'll hear something similar to this.
19:27
And it's so confusing because music is such a big thing.
19:31
And we're going to play a music clip here in a minute.
19:33
And this is some guy. I don't even know if his name is
19:37
either if it's mentioned, but it's talking about music.
19:41
And, and listen to this is this. This isn't Cody Zorn.
19:44
I don't know who it is. Some of the music we're letting
19:48
pile into our churches is an abomination to God.
19:55
Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs singing and making melody
20:01
in your heart to the Lord. Hey that I'm talking about.
20:04
We will return to the beginning. I remember when preachers
20:07
preached against Southern gospel music and southern gospel music
20:11
ain't nothing anymore. I remember when they preached
20:13
against country music and the truth of the matter is country
20:17
music don't even resemble what country music used to be.
20:23
I remember when preachers preached against TV's.
20:28
And I, I know people tell them how TV's preachers are out of
20:31
style. YouTube ain't.
20:35
Netflix ain't Why? Why don't you just tell the
20:41
truth? I'll tell the truth.
20:44
Reason we don't have one in our homes Because I like it.
20:48
If I had one at my house, I'd watch it.
20:52
Now, I I can't handle all this new stuff.
20:54
I mean, I like when the good guy wins.
20:57
I like when the good guy's got a gun.
21:00
I like the good guy when he's got a bunch of friends and they
21:02
all have guns. I like it.
21:05
That's what I like. If I was going to watch it.
21:07
Hey, buddy, I ain't watching it. Sissy John.
21:09
I want to see somebody. I well, you know what I'm.
21:12
Talking about typically TV's are for watching Brett what I think
21:20
that was you in the background yelling Amen real loud I.
21:23
Was, you know, I. Figured you were there.
21:25
I wrote that message for him. What are you?
21:27
What's your thoughts on that? Southern gospel music going to
21:31
be the downfall of America, man. I mean, legacy 5's going to
21:35
bring us down. The gaithers are going to tear
21:37
us apart. Just, you know, but just all
21:40
preference and no scripture. Yeah, There's no scriptural
21:45
basis for any of that. And that was part of my journey
21:49
out of legalism is to have this philosophy and have this
21:54
personal creed. If it's not scripture, I don't
21:58
want it. You know, you give me scripture,
22:02
don't give me what Grand Pappy used to do.
22:05
You know, we grew up in a time and went to colleges where if
22:09
you had a cathedral CD, you got demerits and you got brought
22:16
before the board. But oh, the dorm soup that took
22:20
the CD, he could listen to it in his office and it was all fine.
22:24
Just a bunch of preference and and just no scripture in any of
22:30
it. And so that's, that's all
22:31
they've got to stand on. It's just their own personal
22:34
preference and pushing that on others, encroaching on other
22:39
people's Christian liberty with their own, with their own
22:44
convictions and their own their own thinking, pushing that on
22:48
other people, keeping people in bondage when they are free in
22:51
Christ. And I just don't have any more
22:54
patience for any of it. That's right.
22:56
I agree with it. And as much as I love Southern
22:59
gospel, I love old hymns and I love new music.
23:02
To get up and to say this and to preach this, there's no Bible
23:05
behind it. There's no, there's no scripture
23:08
based behind it. And we're going to play a song
23:10
Brett out sitting in youth camp this past summer in June and
23:16
last week of June. And we're sitting there and you
23:18
know how if you've been to youth camp before, they'll have songs
23:22
playing as kids come in. And the youth camp we go to,
23:24
they play a variety of different.
23:26
I mean, they'll play Veggie Tales, they'll play a
23:30
contemporary song, they'll play a, a country.
23:32
So whatever, they're just kids are coming in.
23:34
They're just getting music going.
23:36
Well, this song came on and it was one of those songs that hit
23:40
me. I don't pay attention to a lot
23:42
of the songs. They're not time.
23:43
Anyways, I'm, I'm crowning kids and I hear it and I'm like,
23:47
dude, this is, this is awesome. And so I have Shazam on my
23:51
watch. So I hit Shazam and I'm
23:52
listening to it on my watch and it comes up and I, I save it.
23:57
And from that point in June until we're recording this now,
24:02
I, I think your phone keeps track of how many times you
24:04
listen to a song. You can go and look at it.
24:06
It would probably be in the thousands.
24:08
How many times this song has played on my phone?
24:11
How many times this song has played while I've been driving
24:12
on the road? How many times my kids like, hey
24:15
dad, can we play that song? Because it's really cool.
24:17
And so we're going to play this. We're not going to play this
24:20
entirety at one sitting. What we're going to do is we're
24:23
going to play the chorus. We're going to talk about it.
24:25
We're going to play the first verse.
24:26
We're going to talk about it. Play the second verse, talk
24:29
about it. We'll do the last chorus as
24:30
well. And I want you to hear the words
24:34
that this is saying may not be the genre that you're used to.
24:37
It may turn you off a little bit, but just try to listen to
24:40
the words. Listen to the scriptural meaning
24:42
to these words as we play this because it is a powerful,
24:48
powerful song. Anything, Brett, before we get
24:50
started as I play this. Oh, it's a.
24:52
Great song. I've listened to it since you
24:54
sent it to me, you know, a couple weeks ago.
24:57
I've listened to it dozens and dozens of times.
24:59
Just repeat listening to the words.
25:02
Such great words to this song and it it, it's a great song.
25:08
Yeah, and it came out in 2013. Think.
25:11
About that, never heard before. Never heard of it.
25:13
It's been almost over 10 years. And the guy that's singing it,
25:18
the first guy, his mom struggled with drug and alcohol abuse and
25:24
he wanted to get as far away from that as he can.
25:26
He ended up in becoming a believer and he became a
25:29
Christian rapper who wanted to do good in the world.
25:33
And so this is the song called Start Over by NF.
25:44
Everybody's got a bling page, a story there, right?
25:48
And two, date a while that they're climbing.
25:53
You can carry the past on your shoulders.
25:57
You can start over. But I'm going to pause it right
26:00
there because even listen to it right now, it just gets me
26:03
again. You've got a blank page.
26:06
You can write, start writing today.
26:09
You've got a wall that you're climbing.
26:12
You can carry the past on your shoulders or you can start over.
26:18
I would just just think about that you you've got this past
26:22
that we all have, and we're going to talk about that past as
26:25
well. I'm back it up just a minute and
26:26
and play that again. While they're climbing, you can
26:30
carry the past on your shoulders.
26:35
You can start over. Regrets.
26:37
No matter what you've gone through, Jesus, He gave it all
26:42
to save you. He carried the cross on his
26:48
shoulders so you can start over. You know, every once in a while
26:56
I find myself doing the same thing.
26:59
I find myself picking up the weight of my past burdens.
27:02
And then I have to remember that I actually gave those to Jesus.
27:07
You know, the Bible says we can cast our cares on him, for He
27:11
cares for us. I have to remember that He
27:14
carried. When he carried the cross, He
27:17
took my sin. There was that great exchange
27:21
where I gave him my sin and he gave me his righteousness.
27:26
But my flesh constantly reminds me of my past and reminds me of
27:31
of my mistakes. But then the Spirit reminds me
27:36
that my past is under the blood. And let me tell you who I think
27:39
about when I hear this course. I think about Peter when Peter
27:43
denied Jesus three times and he was so burdened and weighed down
27:49
with his mistake in his past and his betrayal.
27:54
But even after having seen the resurrected Christ, he gave up
27:58
ministry and went back fishing because he still did not
28:02
consider himself worthy. And it took Jesus having a
28:06
beachside breakfast meal and telling Peter three times to
28:11
feed my sheep. It took that to get it into
28:15
Peter's head that his past did not define him and that it was
28:20
taken care of on the cross, and it freed Peter up to preach at
28:24
Pentecost and to lead the church.
28:27
You know when our past burdens will keep us from our potential
28:31
in God's will. Definitely that that that.
28:33
It's the great chorus. Yeah, it is.
28:35
I love the the comparison here. The first part of the course
28:39
says you can carry the past on your shoulders, and then it
28:42
talks about how no matter what you've gone through, there's
28:45
Jesus. He gave it all to save you, and
28:48
He carried the cross on His shoulders.
28:51
What's the reason for that? So that you can now begin anew?
28:55
So that you can start over? So there can be death to your
28:59
old life and now resurrection in Christ.
29:02
Amen. Man, it's it's just listen that
29:05
again with you here for the first time with me and you look
29:08
again, we listen to it separately.
29:10
It's just hitting a different way talking through it.
29:13
So let's jump into the first verse.
29:14
Man, that here we go. Don't let your heart be
29:18
troubled. Don't get brave to the broken
29:22
hearted their wishes day never been born, never been torn,
29:26
never sin never disobeyed. I know you think there's no hope
29:29
no, but that ain't true. Jesus saves.
29:31
I know you're going to regret like I brought this all on
29:34
myself like I messed it up big time and this time I don't
29:37
deserve God's help thinking how can God forgive me of me after
29:40
Norm with our head. Bro I'm going to stop it again
29:43
right there man. We get to this point where how
29:47
often are we in this state where we go through everything, where
29:52
we disobeyed, we sinned, Jesus is there, he saves.
29:57
Then it says this line messed it up big time and this time I
30:02
don't deserve God's help. How can he forgive me after
30:06
knowing what I did? Man, this is a line that we
30:10
struggle with every day of our life as Christians, not just
30:14
before salvation. This is every day.
30:17
And even thinking about legalism and how oftentimes we have been
30:21
in this state and God still says I'm giving you mercy, I'm giving
30:26
you grace and forgiveness. You know, we have to remember
30:30
and remind ourselves often of the promises of Scripture,
30:33
especially first John 19. If we confess our sins, He is
30:38
faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all
30:43
unrighteousness when we feel like we don't deserve God's help
30:46
after what we've did and we've stayed away and we've backslid.
30:51
Look their days. I get up, James, I don't feel
30:54
worthy. I feel like a fake.
30:56
I feel like a phony. I feel like I'm phoning it in.
31:00
I feel like I don't deserve to be in the position with the
31:04
people that I'm I'm ministering to.
31:06
I feel like a fraud a lot of the times, but you know, I have to
31:11
remind myself that God chose me, OK?
31:15
He chose me. I'm a part of his plan.
31:17
I'm a part of his will. And everything that I've
31:20
experienced in my life and everything that I've gone
31:24
through and I'm going through, I went through that so I could do
31:27
His will more effectively. You know, I've backslidden
31:31
before. And with that backsliddenness
31:34
and that carnality comes regret. And once again, we just got to
31:38
give that to Jesus because if we ask for forgiveness, we confess
31:42
our sins to Him. He is faithful and just to
31:45
forgive our sins. He wants to forgive us.
31:48
He wants to redeem us. He wants to comfort us.
31:51
He'll never get tired of welcoming us back.
31:54
He is the father of the prodigal son who jumps off the porch and
31:59
and runs to meet us halfway down the road.
32:02
And he puts his arms around us and he throws the robe on us.
32:06
He puts the ring on us. He kills the fatted calf.
32:09
And he does that every single time we come back to him.
32:13
And he never gets tired of doing it.
32:16
That's exactly right. As we finish this first verse
32:19
up, listen to the very last line of this verse.
32:24
It's all on myself like I messed it up big time and this time I
32:27
don't deserve God's help thinking OK God forgive me
32:31
afternoon with our head afternoon that I hear from him
32:34
and I stayed away in backslid listen, Jesus came for the sin
32:36
so truth. So Jesus came for the weed Amen.
32:39
Jesus came to give good news in a second captive.
32:42
Hey listen Jesus came for the poor Amen.
32:45
Jesus came with the. Jesus came to remove the chains
32:55
so that prisoners are released. Man, if that doesn't sum up what
33:01
the freedom of salvation does for us, I don't know what else
33:04
does. He came so that we can be free,
33:07
so that we would no longer be, like you said, under the yoke of
33:10
bondage, of legalism, so that we have the freedom to serve
33:14
Christ. And in writing through this
33:17
line, he says he came for the sick, He came for the weak, He
33:21
came for the good news. He came to give the poor.
33:23
He came with the keys to remove the yoke of bondage.
33:27
And oftentimes we are stuck under that bondage because we
33:31
like it. We don't want to get under out
33:33
from underneath the bondage. And this is where we get to
33:37
start over. You know the grave clothes are
33:40
comfortable. Lazarus, he was brought back
33:43
from the dead. He was alive in those grave
33:47
clothes. But sometimes we get used to
33:49
those grave clothes because it's familiar to us.
33:52
We feel comfortable in them. It's our comfort zone.
33:56
But Jesus says, hey, take those grave clothes off.
33:59
You don't have to hop around tied up anymore.
34:03
I've not only brought you back to life, but I've given you
34:07
freedom. You don't have to be bound.
34:10
You can take those grave clothes off.
34:12
Sometimes we like to put them back on, but Jesus says no loose
34:16
him, take him off that's. Right, All right.
34:20
I'm going to try not to stop the second verse halfway through,
34:23
but it's just so good, Brett, man.
34:38
As far as the east is from the West, thrown in the sea of
34:42
forgetfulness. What sin, what offense?
34:43
And when the waves come crashing in, now come the winds in your
34:47
defense or whatever it is that you've.
34:49
Got I gotta stop it, bro, I'm sorry.
34:51
He he says, thrown in the sea of forgetfulness.
34:55
What sin? What offense?
34:58
And when the waves come crashing in, I'll calm the winds in your
35:02
defense, man, how powerful is that?
35:05
How was it to know that Christ says, I don't know any sin that
35:09
you're talking about when we come to him for forgiveness.
35:12
What are you? What are you talking about?
35:13
It's it's this mind blowing fact that we have we have betrayed
35:19
our heavenly Father. We come to ask for forgiveness
35:22
and he looks down with mercy and he says, I don't know what
35:25
you're talking about. I love you.
35:28
That, that, that. That's the part of the song that
35:30
I love too, he says. What offense?
35:33
What? What are you talking about?
35:34
What you know what sin, you know, that's literally that's
35:38
what it's like. He forgets our sin.
35:40
It's done with, it's castaway. He removes it.
35:43
The Bible says there therefore is now no condemnation to those
35:48
who are in Christ now. I love that about this song.
35:51
Yeah. All right, let's back up.
35:52
Listen that and we'll go. Never come under his
36:06
condemnation condescending his accusation.
36:09
So dry your eyes lift up dead. Hallelujah is not dead.
36:12
Plus he gave us his pea, his pea and he took out guilt on the
36:17
cross. His dead took out place.
36:18
And now we embrace a clean slate with the eyes of faith.
36:23
We. Know we do.
36:25
Unfailing love. Unfailing love.
36:26
That's not too late to start over.
36:28
How often is it in our life that we go through this mind of
36:32
bondage, of legalism and we think I'm just too far into it.
36:36
I can't start over. I'm going to abandon my friends
36:39
who's going to come to me. There was some preacher clips I
36:41
was listening to of one by Cody Zorn that was talking about how
36:45
we need to, we need to stick with the old stuff and we need
36:47
to make sure that we, we, we don't lose the camp we're in and
36:52
talk about all this tribalism stuff and almost guilty into not
36:57
leaving because if you do, you're going to make the
37:00
brethren look bad. But Amanda, there is this
37:03
thought of where Christ has redeemed us and we don't have to
37:05
live there. And we have this ability that
37:08
it's not too late to start over. Let me tell you something that
37:12
hit me while you're playing it. I didn't think about this before
37:16
the line where it says He took our guilt on the cross instead.
37:22
What that hit me right then is man, He not only took our sin,
37:27
He took the effects of the sin. He took what the sin causes.
37:33
You know, you throw a rock in the pond and it ripples out.
37:38
Well, He not only took the rock, He took the ripples too when He
37:42
took the sin, and He took the guilt that comes with the sin,
37:46
because the sin is gone, the guilt is gone as well.
37:51
He takes all of that negative effects on himself, and it's
37:55
just the perfect picture of unfailing love.
37:58
Absolutely it is. All right.
38:00
We'll play this last course as it finishes up the song and then
38:03
we'll just sort of do some recap before we jump to the next part.
38:48
And we have that opportunity to start over.
38:50
We have this awesome opportunity to start over from death and the
38:54
life and salvation, but also to start over if we have been
38:59
trapped by legalism. We often times we look at our
39:03
past and thinking about this today, and as I was getting
39:07
ready for this, we have a past and we want to try to forget our
39:11
past. We don't want to remember it.
39:13
We want to forget it. We want to get as far away from
39:15
our past as we can. But I think the true sign and
39:19
the true thought of leaving legalism is redeeming our past.
39:24
It's understanding that our past has a meaning and our past is
39:27
there for a reason. And then if we didn't have that
39:30
past, we wouldn't be where we were at today.
39:33
We wouldn't be in the place where today we wouldn't be in
39:36
the state we are today. And it really takes us to the
39:40
point of we wouldn't be able to accomplish what we were doing or
39:44
are doing if the past wasn't there.
39:48
I'm studying through and I'm preaching through the book of
39:49
Jonah right now and we're in Jonah chapter 2 this week.
39:53
One of the things I realized when I was studying through it
39:55
is Jonah. If he would have stayed on the
39:58
ship, he would have never seen the mercy and judgment of God in
40:03
the belly of the well, and he would have never have the moment
40:06
to. Offer that forgiveness.
40:08
If he had stayed on the ship, he had to be cast overboard.
40:12
He had to get to the point of his lowest point where he said
40:16
he was in the bottom of hell and she'll.
40:19
And in that moment he realized God's goodness and forgiveness.
40:23
He repented and said salvation is of the Lord, but he wouldn't
40:27
have gotten there if he didn't get thrown overboard.
40:31
And how often is it that we don't want to get thrown
40:34
overboard and we get to the place where we're comfortable,
40:38
where we're at until we never leave that place and we never
40:40
see the forgiveness and the healing that Christ alters for
40:43
us. But we have to get thrown
40:45
overboard in order for that to happen.
40:47
And sometimes in this life that we're in, Christ says, I'm going
40:50
to ruin some things in your life so that you'll get your eyes
40:54
back fixed on me so that you can see the offer of forgiveness and
40:58
mercy that I'm giving you. And oftentimes we try to run
41:01
from that and God says that's what's going to make you who you
41:04
are. And then you're going to be able
41:06
to redeem that and you're going to be able to use that as part
41:08
of your story. One of the greatest gifts that
41:11
we have is a testimony, and we can use this.
41:16
One of the greatest evangelistic tools that we have at our
41:19
disposal is our story. Just like JC says all the time,
41:24
there's power in the story. Each one of us has a story to
41:28
tell, a story of redemption, of recovery.
41:33
And we'll just like you said, we don't need to run from our past
41:36
and act like it never happened and put our head in the sand
41:39
that we don't need to, you know, as we'll talk about soon, get
41:43
bitter about it. We need to use it, use it to
41:47
help reach people with the gospel.
41:49
He put us through that for a reason.
41:53
There was a reason behind everything.
41:55
And that's the point, even the point of being a Christian, that
41:59
our suffering has a purpose. Our suffering has a point.
42:04
We don't go through it for no reason.
42:06
There's a reason behind it. There's a divine reason that God
42:11
put us through what we've been through.
42:13
And that's just what it means to be a Christian.
42:16
Absolutely. Well, we're going to jump into
42:18
the, the rest of our episode in, in the last half of it and talk
42:22
through John came up with this years ago and we're stealing it
42:26
from him because we're good Baptist and we steal things.
42:29
And there's the 8 stages of leaving legalism and what that
42:34
looks like. And so we're just going to go
42:36
back and forth. I'll read the first one and then
42:37
Brett will give some talk and he'll read the next one and
42:40
we'll just go through it. And these steps are more of
42:43
progressional steps. The first one is the
42:45
delusionment stage. This is the stage where
42:48
something happens in your life or something is said that causes
42:52
you to have some type of disillusionment with the
42:56
environment that you are in, causing you to think that not
43:00
everything may be right. The time frames can vary, but
43:05
this will ultimately lead to the next stage.
43:07
And so this is the stage where something happens in your life.
43:10
Maybe it's a a sin in church. Maybe it's a a hurtful moment.
43:14
Maybe someone said something to you.
43:16
Maybe there was a embezzlement, maybe there was a sexual abuse.
43:19
Maybe there was someone that hurt your family and it was like
43:22
for the first time you're seeing this situation that you're in
43:26
with a different light. And this moment is where your
43:31
your blinders as a horse would have blinders on.
43:34
So we see straight get taken off and now you're able to see the
43:39
full picture. It's like the the Bible says how
43:42
you see through a glass darkly, but one day we'll see clearly
43:47
what has actually been revealed. It's like this glass that's in
43:50
front of our eyes gets taken away and we see the full picture
43:53
and we're like whole wow, I can't believe I've been here.
43:57
And this is the first step. This is that the disillusionment
44:01
stage where things began to uncover and you can begin to see
44:04
the true picture. You know, going through these
44:07
steps step by step, it's just amazing how much they fit my
44:14
personal situation. And all I have to go through is
44:17
what I personally experienced. And I remember the moment, the
44:22
instant where I was when this disillusionment stage hit me and
44:27
my journey out of, of legalism. It wasn't something for me that
44:32
happened gradually over time. It was a wait hit me like a
44:37
brick wall all in one moment. In one moment I was completely
44:41
done. I was ready to walk away.
44:43
I was over it, you know, it wasn't something that was
44:48
gradually hit me all in just one moment.
44:51
And I will say in my own personal story that if I didn't
44:55
need the money from the church that I was getting at the time,
44:59
I would have walked away completely.
45:01
And that's just me being transparent, God's honest truth.
45:06
But that this will, when that disillusionment stays, when it
45:09
hits you like it hit me, it can really shake you to your core.
45:14
Which brings us to stage two called the questioning stage.
45:18
So at some point questions are going to start to rise and there
45:23
may be a latency period for some to ask the questions mentally,
45:28
but be afraid to verbalize those questions.
45:31
Ultimately, those questions either do not get answered or
45:35
answered very inadequately, which triggers stage 3, which
45:38
we'll get to in just a minute, but you know, in 100%.
45:42
In my own experience, the next step was the questions.
45:46
Once the disillusionment hit me, you know, once I realized the
45:51
lead, my leadership was manipulating me for their own
45:54
benefit, that's when it hit me. You know, what else am I being
45:58
lied to? About what?
46:00
What else it, you know, isn't real?
46:02
And I began to question everything from the music
46:07
standards to the dress standards to the Bible standards.
46:10
And they begin to question everything.
46:12
You know, I internalized a lot of that at the time and I didn't
46:16
have anybody to ask those questions to or get answers
46:20
from, but it definitely led me to start questioning everything.
46:29
Yeah, absolutely. The questioning side of is the
46:34
side that we all begin to get to at some point or other, whether
46:38
we want to acknowledge it or not.
46:40
There's a story, I'm going to read it.
46:41
It came to my mind and I wanted to get the exact details down,
46:44
but as a boy this young boy decided to.
46:48
He was at a Lutheran Church. He was going with his parents.
46:50
At age 13 he went to his pastor and said does God know
46:53
everything? The pastor answered yes God
46:56
knows everything. The little boy then pulled out a
46:58
magazine of Life magazine and it depicted a children in Africa
47:03
that were starving and he said does not God know about this?
47:07
Pastor answered I know you don't understand but yes he knows
47:10
about this. This little boy then answered
47:14
and declared that he did not want to worship a God and walked
47:18
out of the church and never went back.
47:20
At age 13, this little boy's name was Steve Jobs.
47:24
This guy, he, he started a small little company that we know as
47:28
Apple Incorporated Macintosh and I want you to think about.
47:34
He began to question things as a 13 year old boy and the pastor
47:37
couldn't give him the answers. He left that religion, he left
47:41
that church, never stepped foot back in church and went to
47:44
Buddhist, Muslims, Zao, Zionist, Chinese, all these different
47:50
religions to try to find the answer.
47:53
Never found the answer to life and as far as we know died and
47:57
is in hell right now. But could you imagine if Steve
48:00
Jobs would have got their answer That in that moment that yes,
48:03
God loves you and this is because of sin, all sin.
48:08
And unfortunately, this pastor, whoever it was, will always be
48:13
his case where he never was able to give an answer.
48:16
And when we have questions, we're going to find the answer
48:19
one way or another, whether we like it or not, which begins to
48:23
leave us to the third stage, which is the leaving stage.
48:27
This is the point where the individual realizes they are no
48:29
longer belong or agree with the religious community or cult.
48:33
They begin to make efforts to leave that group in more toxic
48:37
environments. Their questionings or efforts
48:39
may be met with a group actually moving to expel them, therefore
48:45
attempting to maintain a moral high ground with remaining
48:48
members. This is the all right.
48:51
They're not they're, they're going a different way than we
48:53
are. And so instead of letting them
48:55
quit, we're going to fire them and we're going to excommunicate
48:58
them or we're going to get them out of our group because they
49:01
aren't necessarily going to create this environment to to
49:05
fit my need. And they're going to talk have a
49:08
toxic influence on my leadership and what I want.
49:12
And so we are going to get rid of them.
49:14
Instead of that pastor saying, hey, let's work through this.
49:16
Let's talk through this. Let's figure out how we can work
49:19
at this through this to it with a graceful manner.
49:22
Brett. You know, I, I really see that
49:26
that pastors with this type of mindset and in, in legalism,
49:32
they care more about their work than they care about the people.
49:37
And I was shelved so many times and when I needed help because
49:43
the work was more important than me.
49:46
And how I wish I had a pastor who cared about me and put me
49:51
above his work. And I've mentioned this several
49:54
times before, but it keeps coming back to my mind.
49:57
I remember Jack Howes, I heard him say these words with my own
50:02
ears. He said I will never put my
50:05
people above my work. Well, I'll never put my work
50:09
above my people upon my people above my work above my work.
50:11
And man, I, I felt like that's just such a big lie.
50:15
It's so phony. I remember this when this
50:19
situation, when it comes to the leaving stage, I remember, you
50:23
know, sending out resumes. And I'd already been chewed out
50:26
for sending out resumes, but now, you know, I didn't tell
50:30
anybody that I was doing it now. I was just so desperate to get
50:34
out. I was sending resumes out, not
50:36
telling anybody. I didn't say anything to anybody
50:39
until I had a place to go. But you know, I've, I've been
50:43
there for this leaving stage and I try to keep it under wraps or
50:48
else I would have been excommunicated.
50:50
I would have been kicked out. And of course, that leads to
50:53
stage 4, which is the grieving stage.
50:56
And it's strange that may sound to outsiders for those leaving
51:02
did have relationships and many, many positive memories within
51:05
that religious community. And the feeling, feelings of
51:09
loss will begin to set in. I do not feel wrong or guilty
51:14
when experiencing these feelings.
51:16
Instead process them for their proper.
51:20
And I definitely experienced that, that sense of loss.
51:24
You know, after I left my church and went to my next church, it
51:28
wasn't long after I went to that church that the pastor, my
51:31
previous church resigned because it come out he is having an
51:35
affair with a church member. So that pastor was gone.
51:39
So I did have that mourning period where I really missed the
51:43
people of the church, the people that I grew up with, because
51:47
listen, those people that I grew up with, they love the Lord and
51:51
they taught me a lot. And even today I would, I would
51:54
give them the shirt off my back if they if they wanted me to.
51:57
So what I started doing after I left and after that pastor was
52:01
gone, as I started going activities at the church, I'd go
52:04
there on Sunday nights because they didn't have the church I
52:08
was going to didn't have Sunday night service.
52:11
I would go to funerals, receptions of old church.
52:13
And I did that until the pastor said, Brett, you know, every
52:16
time I turn around, you're here. And I kind of got a little mad
52:20
at him for saying that. That's all I quit going.
52:21
But there was that period of loss and mourning where I'm,
52:26
even though I, I was abused at that church by the leadership, I
52:30
really miss the people I grew up with and the people that taught
52:34
me growing up that loved the Lord.
52:36
There was that grieving that I had to go for.
52:40
Absolutely. And before we get to #5 I will
52:43
say this, each of these stages, you're going to spend a
52:47
different amount of time in the disillusionment.
52:50
Maybe a year, two years. Your grieving may only last for
52:54
a week. Your it may last for a year, it
52:57
may last for three years. Like there's no set time of how
53:01
long we're going to be in the specific stage.
53:03
And don't be alarmed if you go back into one of those stages.
53:08
It's not like once I leave and once I finish my grieving, I'm
53:11
never going to come back to grieving.
53:12
I'm never going to have a moment where I remembered of a of a
53:16
friend that I had there and all of a sudden that friendship is
53:20
broken. Be there.
53:22
There are these times where we go back in and out of these
53:24
stages which leads us to the next one, the education stage.
53:28
This vary widely for some, but many may have a blended this
53:33
stage with the questioning stage.
53:35
But at this moment the individual begin to read, listen
53:38
and study what is actually and truly right moral and biblical
53:44
way of doing things. This can happen rapidly or it
53:47
can happen slowly, but inevitably will begin to lead to
53:51
the next stage. And this education stage is is a
53:55
tough stage for me. I remember very clearly going
53:58
through the King James only that was the first issue.
54:01
That was the biggest issue that was preached.
54:03
And so I wanted to deep dive. And so I watched the Ankerberg
54:06
debate. It was like a three hour debate
54:08
and I just watched it two or three times and begin to deep
54:11
dive into what Scripture is, what is true Scripture and why
54:17
do we believe the King James is the only one?
54:19
And this was the beginning of my education stage.
54:22
Like I began there and then I said, OK, well, if that's not
54:25
right, what else isn't right? And I began to dissect each and
54:30
every belief that I had until I had this firm foundation of what
54:34
I truly believe based on scripture.
54:36
But it is a biblical questioning stage of saying what is it and
54:41
how can I get what what does the Bible say about this issue and
54:45
get to the heart of that issue. It's amazing you say that these
54:50
these stages take different time periods because I was just
54:54
thinking my disillusionment stage.
54:56
It took a week. It took a week for me to go from
54:59
that to questioning. It didn't take long at all.
55:02
But this education stage took me a long time.
55:07
It took me a long time to unlearn so much of what I've
55:11
learned. I'd be in my new church and I'd
55:14
still be, you know, playing mute worship music without drums and
55:19
still preaching King James. And still, this is years after I
55:23
had left Legalism, after I'd left the IFB.
55:26
And so this education stage, it took a long time for me to get
55:31
to, but really what started my journey was the RFP.
55:35
It was Mike Winger. I've said that my testimony on
55:38
this podcast before, I listened to Mike Winger on things like
55:43
alcohol and the King James Bible and music and really re educated
55:48
me about what the Bible actually says.
55:51
The RFP helped me realize what legalism was.
55:55
I thought legalism was just for salvation.
55:57
I learned what legalism for sanctification was, you know,
56:01
people attempting to live the Christian life through their own
56:04
strength and following laws that aren't in the Bible instead of
56:08
fully relying on the Holy Spirit.
56:11
So this education stage, it took me, it took me a while to get
56:15
through. Which brings us to stage six,
56:19
which is the anger stage. You know, realizing that you
56:22
have been taught wrongly, LED an arrant path, and because of this
56:28
even LED others down the wrong path will cause in most feelings
56:33
of anger to rise. Many outsiders interpret this to
56:37
be bitterness, but do not be alarmed, it is not bitterness,
56:40
although it can lead to bitterness.
56:42
This is the point in the journey will bring you into a fork in
56:46
the road, however, because choosing how you will handle
56:50
this proper anger can lead you into bitterness or lead you into
56:55
healing and you listen, I didn't get very angry over this stuff
57:00
and that I was taught wrong and done wrong.
57:03
And you know, to be honest, maybe I was a little bitter.
57:07
I like to think I worked through my bitterness and and I'm worked
57:10
through my anger and I chose the right for it.
57:13
But you will get angry, you know, about this kind of stuff,
57:17
what you've been through. You trick lied to manipulated
57:20
for me. It was just a straight
57:23
manipulation for me that really, really made me angry.
57:28
Yeah, the anger stage is one that I never really experienced
57:33
about my wife did more than I did.
57:34
My wife got really angry at the past and some of our former
57:40
churches, church that we were at when we left legalism.
57:43
And man, it was tough for her. It was tough for me to work
57:46
through that with her, but it was this ultimate sign of when
57:50
she saw the other side and the healing came.
57:54
That's where the anger began to go away.
57:56
That the the healing stage or the bitter stage.
57:59
This is where there's this fork. We're either going to have anger
58:02
and get bitter and live in bitterness, which is where we
58:06
see a lot of people right now. They're angry, they get bitter
58:10
and they never get over what someone did to them.
58:14
Or there's anger and healing, which is the healing bitterness.
58:19
The next phase will be very important.
58:21
It's probably the most important phase in our journey because we
58:26
at this moment, when we get to this moment where we begin to
58:29
have anger and we begin to get frustrated, we begin to lash
58:33
out. It begins to affect our spirit,
58:35
begins to affect our mind, and we can't think right.
58:39
This is where we strongly encourage you find someone that
58:42
you can talk to, a biblical counselor, a church community,
58:46
someone where you can have a small group of believers and you
58:49
can just voice where you're going through and you can say,
58:52
listen, I'm struggling, I need help.
58:54
Don't be afraid to do that. Find a good biblical counselor,
58:57
find someone that you can go to then.
58:59
And maybe that's me, maybe that's Brett, maybe that's
59:01
someone close to you where you can just voice some of these
59:04
concerns. It's a weekly basis where I am
59:07
answering direct messages, I'm answering text messages.
59:10
My phone number's out there. You, you can give me a call, a
59:13
text anytime. And, and I'm going to help you
59:15
through this journey because we don't want you to live in that
59:19
bitterness. We want you to have that healing
59:21
so that you can do like that, that just song just we just
59:24
played. Have a fresh page to start over.
59:27
Have a fresh page where you can begin anew.
59:30
And you don't have to live in the hurt that you have
59:33
experienced and the bitterness that you may have felt.
59:37
And so ultimately, that brings us to the last stage, Brett.
59:41
You know. Feeling in bitterness.
59:43
When you were talking, it reminded me about somebody that
59:46
really helped me through this stage of my life and it was my
59:50
mom's pastor and his name is Doctor Dave Hartson.
59:55
He was my mom's pastor. And I grew up knowing and even
59:58
though I went to a different church, but when I left.
1:00:01
Legalism. He became my pastor even though
1:00:05
I wasn't going to his church. He really helped me through this
1:00:09
stage. He taught me what church was
1:00:11
really like, how pastors are really supposed to act.
1:00:14
He helped me through it. He was there when I needed him
1:00:18
to call on. He was, he was a professional
1:00:20
psychologist as well as a pastor.
1:00:23
Like he was a, you know, he was a legit doctor of psychology and
1:00:27
psychiatry, and he's a pastor as well.
1:00:31
And I just remember our long conversations.
1:00:34
I remember us sitting in his office off his carport at his
1:00:38
home. He really helped me process what
1:00:41
I've been through, of course. And, you know, he went to be
1:00:45
with the Lord a year ago. And I really appreciate the
1:00:49
investment that he made in my life.
1:00:52
And then, of course, that brings us to stage 8, which is the
1:00:55
helping stage. It's the final stage in this
1:00:57
process, in the final stage, the culmination of all your
1:01:01
experience. And at this point you will learn
1:01:04
it is God's divine purpose for you to experience, for you
1:01:08
experiencing the hurts that you've been through.
1:01:11
And that is, as Tony Evans has put it, to use the good, the
1:01:15
bad, and the ugly of your life to help others and their
1:01:18
situation and point them to the love and grace of our Savior.
1:01:23
Your full circle moment is when we get to use it to help
1:01:26
somebody else. You know, I've had that the
1:01:29
opportunity to counsel people and talk to many people who are
1:01:34
experiencing coming out of legalism, coming out of cult
1:01:37
mentality. And through this, through this
1:01:40
podcast, through social media that I've been able to do
1:01:44
through the RFP connections, people have reached out to me,
1:01:47
they DM me, and I've had the opportunity to help them process
1:01:52
their journey out of legalism and help other people with my
1:01:56
experiences. And just like you said, not
1:01:59
forgetting my story, but redeeming my story and helping
1:02:03
them process what they've been through.
1:02:05
It's such a blessing to be able to help people.
1:02:09
And that's the purpose of this. God puts us through this so that
1:02:12
he can put us in the path of somebody else and help that
1:02:16
person. Absolutely.
1:02:18
That was when we were in bourbon at the meet up, there was a
1:02:21
moment where we, me and John ran into a guy that was, was that a
1:02:28
church that was very legalistic. If I said the name, you would
1:02:31
know it. I'm not going to just cuz I
1:02:33
don't want to give details. And there was a moment where we
1:02:37
we looked over and we realized we had actually interviewed this
1:02:40
young lady on our podcast at that time.
1:02:43
And while I had the meet up and I said, hey man, she is the
1:02:47
granddaughter of the pastor of your church that you grew up in.
1:02:52
And he said it helped me to understand that everything I had
1:02:56
done up in this point, I saw one fruit of it in person.
1:03:02
And it was the granddaughter of the abusive pastor that I had.
1:03:07
And we were able to connect him with her.
1:03:09
And it was a really, really cool moment because we get to see
1:03:13
this full circle moment of us doing what we do to help others.
1:03:18
It's not to help myself. It's not to to, to say, look at
1:03:21
me, I'm this part of this this little podcast that reaches a
1:03:24
couple people, but it's to help someone that's been struggling.
1:03:28
Because ultimately Second Corinthians says it like this
1:03:31
Second Corinthians 1 verses 3 through 7.
1:03:35
Blessed be God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the
1:03:37
Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort, who comforts us
1:03:40
in all of our afflictions, so that we may be able to comfort
1:03:44
those who are in any kind of affliction through the comfort
1:03:49
which we ourselves receive from God.
1:03:52
For just as the sufferings of Christ overflows to us, so also
1:03:57
through Christ our comfort overflows.
1:03:59
If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation.
1:04:03
If we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces the
1:04:07
patience to endure the same sufferings as we suffer.
1:04:11
And our hope for you is firm because we know that you share
1:04:15
in the sufferings so that you will also share in the comfort.
1:04:19
We go through these things to share with others to help them
1:04:24
in their journey so that they can see healing and help in
1:04:28
their journey. And so oftentimes we try to push
1:04:32
this away. We try to push and bury the hurt
1:04:36
and the bitterness and the anger.
1:04:37
And because we bury it, we no longer get to help anyone else.
1:04:41
We live in that. We live in that guilt.
1:04:43
We live in that remorse. And we can get through that and
1:04:47
we can push through that moment. We begin to see the hope and the
1:04:51
help that the gospel brings. And so the Today, as we talked
1:04:56
through this, starting over, that maybe you just need to be
1:04:59
reminded of this. Maybe you know someone that you
1:05:01
want to share this with. We want to help them if we can.
1:05:05
That song, again, it's Start Over by Flame featuring NF.
1:05:09
And again, I don't know anything about either one of those two
1:05:12
guys. I just know that song has been
1:05:14
powerful for me. And what we're going to do is
1:05:18
we're going to close the episode by playing that song in its
1:05:20
entirety and we'll put a link to it to to YouTube and you can go
1:05:24
listen to it as well. The music is phenomenal.
1:05:28
We hope you go and watch it as well.
1:05:29
So, Brad, any final thoughts? I'm just thankful to be here.
1:05:33
I'm thankful to have an opportunity to help people.
1:05:37
I'm thankful that the Lord brought me out of where I was
1:05:42
trapped in legalism and man made rules and preferences into the
1:05:47
freedom of Christ that the gospel brings.
1:05:50
That's what I'm here to do, man. I am here to to celebrate the
1:05:55
freedom that we have in Christ and uphold His word and His
1:05:59
Scripture, and I'm thankful to get an opportunity to do that.
1:06:03
Amen, love it. If we can ever do anything for
1:06:05
you, let us know. Our website is for
1:06:07
freedompodcast.com and until next time, to God.
1:06:13
Not the pastor. Be the glory.
1:06:16
Everybody's got a blank page, a story, the right and two day a
1:06:22
while that they're climbing out. You can carry the past on your
1:06:27
shoulders. You can start over regrets.
1:06:33
No matter what you've gone through.
1:06:35
Jesus, He gave it all to save you.
1:06:39
He carried the cross on his shoulders so you can start over.
1:06:49
Don't let your heart be troubled.
1:06:51
Don't be afraid to the broken hearted that wishes day.
1:06:56
Never been born, never been torn, never sin, never
1:06:59
disobeyed. I know you think there's no
1:07:01
hope. No, but that ain't true.
1:07:02
She's the same. I know you feel the regret.
1:07:04
Like I brought this all on myself, like I messed it up big
1:07:07
time and this time I don't deserve God's help.
1:07:10
Thank you. How can God forgive me after
1:07:12
knowing what I hid, After knowing that I hear from him and
1:07:15
I stayed away in backslid. Listen, Jesus came for the sick.
1:07:19
Jesus came for the weak. Jesus came to give good news and
1:07:22
I set the captives free. Listen, Jesus came for the poor.
1:07:44
You can start over Regret no matter what you go through.
1:07:49
Jesus, He gave it all to save you.
1:07:52
He carried the cross on his soldiers.
1:07:55
Until you can start over. Love is deeper than the ocean
1:08:01
floor. Run to his owns like an open
1:08:03
door. God the Father said the sons are
1:08:04
making come and be free and got to run the world.
1:08:07
Come to me all who are weary with heavy burdens.
1:08:09
I'll give you rest separating you from your sin as far as the
1:08:12
east is from the West thrown in the sea of forgetfulness.
1:08:16
What sin, what offense? And when them waves come
1:08:18
crashing in, now come the winds in your defense.
1:08:21
So whatever it is that you've done, He put that punishment on
1:08:23
his Son. His yo never come under his
1:08:25
condemnation. Conquer sin to Satan and his
1:08:27
accusation. Dry your eyes, lift up your head
1:08:31
and plus He gave us his peace, His peace and he took our guilt
1:08:34
on a cross instead, took our place.
1:08:35
And now we embrace a clean slate with the eyes of faith.
1:08:38
We know unfailing love, unfailing love.
1:08:41
It's not too. Once you go through Jesus, He
1:09:01
gave it on to save you. He carried the cross on his
1:09:06
shoulders so he could start over.
1:09:36
Found my new name, Found that good grace, found that healing.
1:09:42
And the tears fell down my face when I found my beginning that
1:09:46
has no ending. I found that second chance.
1:09:48
Found my best friend, Found my forgiveness, found my happiness.
1:09:51
I've been singing ever. Thanks for listening to the Four
1:10:09
Freedom Podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do
1:10:12
us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our
1:10:16
podcast on whichever podcast platform you use.
1:10:19
Be sure to join us next time for The Four Freedom Podcast.