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Rugby Direct - Episode 192 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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  Speaker 1: Straight down the Middle of.
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  Speaker 2: Drum, Dickney scud By, Try these.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Pe get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Talks EDB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct power by Excess Solutions, celebrating twenty
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: five years in business. Ellie get Smith with me Liam
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Napier in London again. As we come down to the
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: weekends test match All Blacks and England. The teams are outs.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: England name theirs on Tuesday local time. The All Blacks
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: early get today Thursday morning local time. So Liam, the
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: teams are out and let's get into the All Blacks
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: first and foremost couple of surprises there. I know we
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: talked the other day about which way they might go
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: with the back line. They've gone the way we probably suspected, haven't.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: They were Les defying Anuku on to the left wing.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Billy Procter in at center with Caler Clarke obviously out injured.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Simon Parker comes back into the team at blindside. Scott
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Barrett's back as captain obviously and in the second row
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: as well. So three changes to the run on side
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: per should we start with that back line change? It
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: felt like probably the way they're going to go. Not
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: really too many other options that seemed that likely. So
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: what do you make of it?
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: I think we predicted they would go that way. Ricohani
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: was another option. Yeah, they did have options of shifting
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: the back three around a wee bit, but they clearly
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: want to keep McKenzie in that impact role that he's
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: performed so well in recent weeks, and they finished the
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: Test last week against Scotland largely with that back line,
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: with Billy Procter at center alongside Quinti and Lester find
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: a knokle on the wing and look, I think you
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: can get Lester involved from the wing. And I wasn't
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: overly impressive him at center, but he saw an incredibly
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: damaging ball carrier. I do have concerns on the whole
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: for the back three and the way they're going to
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: be peppered with the high ball, but I don't think
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: it really mattered who the All Blacks picked there. That
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: was always going to be an area of potential vulnerability
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: and Anton Lenna Brown coming onto the bench a wee
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: bit of a surprise for me. I probably would have
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: picked Rico. I think he's a bigger body. But Scot
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: Robinson's justification was that Leona Brown covers second and center.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: But it really does speak to Rico's standing in this
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: team and how far back he's gone in such a
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: short space at time.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: It does well. Anton Lenna Brown, he said, could cover
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: wing as well, so can Rico, Youani, Rico has played
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: twelve at super level a little bit, going back a
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: couple of years at least now, But it does speak
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: to volumes as how he's fallen in this team, and
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: it feels like he maybe just needs to get to
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Leinster and we can look and just try and re
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: not revive as Korega, but just a bit of a
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: sea change might be the best thing for him. He's
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: was center for a couple of seasons in this All
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Blacks team, then moved to the left wing. Didn't really
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: work for him this year. Either he goes to Leinster
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: and it's the remaking of him, or he goes to
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Linston goes okay, yeah, maybe I am no longer likely
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: to be a Test player and maybe he just goes
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: to Japan and maybe we don't see him. I no, no, no.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: He's contracted with New zealandery for a wee while, but
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: it feels like he'll probably play next week against Wales.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he will.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: But there's also the question of how much you actually
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: lose a lot from that test given where Wales are
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: at they cop fifty from Argentina last week. I think
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: they've lost eighteen their last nineteen something like that, very
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: much in rebuild modes. So yeah, Rico's had a very
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: interesting juncture in his career and like you say, going
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: Leinster could help him. I think it will evolve his game,
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: will open his eyes to a different style of footy.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: Interesting to see where he plays first and foremost and
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: how he handles being out of his comfort zone. That
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: could bring out the best in him. I think getting
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: out of the Blues and an environment he knows very well,
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: it will be a good challenge. And yeah, hopefully that
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: sparks something within him, because he does need to be
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: revived because he has gone back quickly, isn't.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: He he has I'll be honest, I don't quite get
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: the anti len It Brown selection on the bench. I
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: get the justification. I can accept that.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: But last year, in November this test, Lennard Brown came
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: off the bench and got a yellow cart.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: He got a yellow cut in his memory service as well.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: It just feels, yeah, whether he can't get into the
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: pace of a game or whatever it is when you
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: come off the bench that late, I'm not sure. Trying
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: to Yeah, perhaps, but to me he doesn't suggest impact.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: He's a very solid play, great link play, great distributor.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: I just don't see the impact. And I'm not saying,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: you remember from sixteen to twenty three has to be
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: gung ho, balls to the wall impact sort of player.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: But I think you do need some of that, and
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure that Leonard Brown is going to be
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: a game changer.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: Off the bench. No, I agree.
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: And there's also a massive test for Billy Proctor though,
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: isn't it. He's had I think seven this year he was.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: Robertson fully backed him on the basis that he had
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: been the forum center in Super Rugby for at least
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: two years. Hasn't made that transition, hasn't stepped up as hope,
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: particularly from an attacking perspective. How do you think he's
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: going to go this weekend.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I think this again is a big testa Billy Procter
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: because we haven't seen the best of him at Test
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: level compared to what we know he's capable of at
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Super rugby level, where he can find time in space,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: he's a great stepper with the ball, he can get
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: around plays, he can run through. You just team seems
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: hit the right option at super rugby level. I think
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: at Test level, time and space is so restricted and
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: your opportunities come few and far between, and both silky
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: skills and that space you might be afforded at Super
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: rugby level, you just don't get at Test rugby level.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: And so I think that's real where the question is.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: And it kind of felt like I was giving a
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: bit of credit the Shaft for sticking with them, but
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: it just wasn't coming from the All Blacks that they
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: kept sticking with them, going at some point it's going
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: to click. At some point it's going to click, and
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: then they had to make a call and it wasn't clicking.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: I wonder whether it's a size thing with Billy because
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: Test rugby I think, I don't know, this is just
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: my assumption, but players a bigger, right yep, Bigger, faster, stronger,
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: and you mentioned the time in space, but also just
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: the physical contact. So I wonder whether that's why he
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: struggled from an attacking perspective, because you look at the
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: other options that have played well for the All Blacks
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: in the midfield. Quintuplier is a bigger physical presence, didn't
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: have that background as a center, but came out and
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: smashed it in his first start there.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Against the Wallabies.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: Lester when he carries the ball is just hugely destructive.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: Rico hasn't shown the best of himself, probably not even
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: viewed as a center for the All Blacks now, but
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: another bigger body. So yeah, I do wonder whether Billy
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: has struggled just with the difference of Super Raby to
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: test Ray from a size perspective.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you could probably make that argument with Duple.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: He's not in the match Day twenty three this week,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: but you know he was getting turnovers for fun at
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Super Ragby level and if Romerson no doubt that he
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: should be in this All Black squad, but he probably
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: lacks the size and test match breakdowns operate a little
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: bit different. The body's being cleared a little bit bigger.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Those opportunities to get turnovers a few and far between.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: You got to be on the ball that fraction quicker
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: than you have to be at super rugby level. So
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: hasn't felt like he's maybe made that adjustment. And again
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: it might be a size thing.
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what about the other change in the forward pack?
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: Sumon Parker he was arrested last week. Yeah, I personally
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: felt that maybe he'd come back on the bench this week.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: I probably would have started Stiti. Think about what he
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: did last November and that breakout performance at Twickenham cut
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: England to shreds offloaded quick feet at the line. I
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: can understand why they pick Parker. Bigger body, he'll add
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: something to the set piece, more grunt to the scrum,
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: particularly of Scott Barrett coming back. He's more of a
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: line out presence as well, and he's strong, work great
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: on the defensive side of the ball. For me, he
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: doesn't offer a lot with ball in hand. And then
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: you've got Setti coming off the bench. But I just
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: feel a little bit like it's a team that's picked
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: not to play like England, but to counter their strengths
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: rather than to play to the All Black strengths, which
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: is how I would view Citti starting.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see that point of view. I thought
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: there was a good chance that Parker came back in
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: this week. I think I said on the earlier podcast
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: in the week that you could put him in there
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: and then have Stdi going in for the last thirty
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: and a big advocate of finding that right mix for
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: the bench, because I think the last thirty minutes is
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: just as valuable, if not more now in test rugby
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: than the first save fifty. And it feels like the
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: All Blacks are still searching for that right option at
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: blind Side. It may be satiti over time, but it
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: also feels that they don't have the bench option that
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: they want at the moment. And whether that's because top
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: of I is out injured or whatever it might be,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: but it feels like, Okay, they've made a decision to go,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: we don't have the bench option that we would like
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: to back up Wallace. So therefore Wallace is going to
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: go to the bench and we'll go with Simon Parker,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: who personally I don't think is a bench option. I
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: don't think he adds similar to Antonine at Brownie either,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: starts and the run on team or he's not playing
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: in the twenty three, so they've gone with that. Wouldn't
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: surprise me to see them make a little bit of
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: a tweak quite early in the second spell, potentially around
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: that because we haven't talked about it, but that the
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: stats for the All Blacks quite bad and we had
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: great evidence of that last week at Murrayfield from minutes
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: forty to sixty, where the game got away from them
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: almost and it's been a continuing factor this year. So
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: they need to shore up that space at some point.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So I wonder whether Cititi will get his bought and
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: pass very very early in the second spell and basically
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: have for almost a full half of license to do
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: what you said and do what he did. It took
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: them last year.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: The Oblecks to be well aware, weren't they of their
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: third quarter struggles Last year? It was their final quarters
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: and that's where they've been really good in the last
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: two weeks in particular, and also against the Wallabies in
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: Perth they finished strongly. So you could argue they have
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: amended or potentially fixed solved their final quarter struggles, but
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: that's transferred to that period after halftime which potentially shines
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: a spotlight on what's happening at halftime, what's been said,
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: the mentality coming out of the sheds, there's a number
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: of questions around that. And yeah, the benches in modern
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: rugby are incredibly important, aren't they. And we've seen that
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: not only with the All Blacks tactics, but with England's
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: They've got six British and Irish Lions on their bench
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: in the six to two split there, and that clearly
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: speaks to the way they have lost the last three
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: games to the All Blacks.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. You look back to twenty twenty two,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: twenty five six, Yeah, they managed actually come back off that.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: It wasn't you know it was. It was a blow,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: but it was largely on their bench. They got that
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: twenty minutes right. Never since then twenty twenty three Dunedin
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: and then Auckland last year, then London last year, it
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: has been that twenty minutes period where the game has
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: got away from the All Blacks have been able to
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: win women last year they were All Blacks at twicken
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: them We're down twenty two fourteen, came back to roll
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: over the top of England in the end and just
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: looking at that bench six two split average of forty
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: caps per player on the bench and got the Pom score,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: the Pom squad as it's been dubbed, which is great.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Luke Carwin, Dicky fifty one caps, Alice Kinge seventy three,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Will Stewart fifty one. That's just the front row and
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: then cunning him South has played nearly twenty. Tom Curry's
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: played sixty three. Pollocks the all one out with three,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Ben Spencer with twelve. Marcus Smith has somehow I got
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: forty five caps already in his Test career. But it's
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: a very experienced bench and they believe that if they're
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: in the game with twenty five to go, that these
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: are the men that are going to close it out
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: for them.
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you could argue big time that Alice Skinge, Tom Curry,
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: they've been starters largely throughout their Test careers. Henry Pollock's
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: been you know what is he twenty years old, the
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: absolute revelation for English rugby, big character, impressed during the
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: lines tour, came off the bench last week and scored
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: a try. So he's the epitome of a of an
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: impact player and Marcus Smith real live where if he
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: gets the license. Because the starting English team there's certainly
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: no ambiguity a bit about how they're going to play.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: They've reinstated George Ford at ten and Freddie Stewart at
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: fullback and with Alex Mitchel a half back, they will
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: hoist to the heavens. I think they kept in four
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: tests this year, they've kept for over one thousand meters,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: so you don't have to be Einstein to work out
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: how they're going to approach this.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Actually going to have a fair bit of catching to
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: do on Saturday and that's gonna be a real acid
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: test of what they can do that back three because
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Will Jordan hasn't been the safest under the high ball,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Leroy Carter, the little man on the wing, lestifying Anoku
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: hasn't played a lot of wing in recent times as well.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Feels like an area of vulnerability for the All Blacks
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: because we're seeing against Scotland they haven't been able to
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: get it right for whatever reason. You know, it's been
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: a huge gaping problem in this All Blacks team and
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: again they haven't been able to fix it.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: Let's talk about the few records because they didn't touch
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: it on the earlier pod this week. England haven't beaten
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks anywhere for five years. Since the twenty
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: nineteen World Cup semi final. The All Blacks haven't lost
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: at Twickenham. They're unbeaten them five matches. They're going back
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: to twenty twelve. Steve Borthwick in his three year tenure
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: hasn't been the All Blacks, hasn't been the spring box.
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: What do you put the All Blacks recent dominance of
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: England down to, Because it hasn't been a golden period
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: for All Black reps.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: No, it hasn't. I think for an English team. They
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: are inconsistent with their selections and perhaps similar to the
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: All Blacks is that they have struggled to build an
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: identity about themselves in a way they want to play,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: and the All Blacks have just been able to find
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: a moment or two to be the better of them.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: And you compare the two benches this year to what
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: England rolled out last year, and they've obviously stacked the
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: bench this time around, but it's strong a bench and
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: they rolled out last year when things did fall away
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: for them in the last week. While you know that
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: they have found some key players and positions Fay were Boso,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Henry Pollock coming through as well. So the All Blacks
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: haven't certainly dominated England by any stretch of the imagination,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: but they've just been able to find a key moment
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: here there, hang really tough in games and come out
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: on the right side of the LEGI you think that's
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty two when the All Blacks lead twenty five
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: to six against England with nine ten minutes to play
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: and then likes of Fretty Steward managed to score a
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: couple of tries, got to twenty five All probably would
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: have won it if the game had gone on for
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: two or three more minutes. That was as good as
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: they've looked against the All Blacks. But then things have
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: changed again. So it's a really intriguing there's no right
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: art wrong answer, But the best that they've looked at
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: is probably when Eddie Jones was coaching them back into
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty two Seal Blacks.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's you're right.
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: The identity thing is big for England's You look at
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: teams like Northampton who play quite attacking brand of rugby,
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: brilliant to watch, but that's not really England's DNA or
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: their identity, and they do have some attacking weapons. But
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: Borthwick is a lot more conservative generally as a coach,
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: and I think it's taken him time to develop the
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: style of rugby he wants to play. You see that
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: coming through with the bench there about. That's a clear
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: tactic about where he's going with this team. George Ford
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: is his ten for now. Last year it was Marcus Smith,
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: so I think he's settled on a few things, a
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: lot more sure in his mind how he wants to play,
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: who his men are. So this is the best England
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: have been under Bothwick. I don't think there's any doubt
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: about that. The one nine in a row, that record
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: is not amazing when you dive into it. But there
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: is a real confidence building within this English team and
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: it's an interesting sphere that in fronts this game because
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: this match will define both these team seasons. They're both
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: delicately poised. They're both looking for a significant scalp to
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: justify their improvements, their progress and if the All Black
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: swin pretty much bank the Grand Slam for the first
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: time in fifteen years, and people will say, yep, okay, Raiser,
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: we believe you you're on.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: The right track.
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: If they don't, it raises a number of questions. And
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: it's the same for England. If their nine match winning
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: run comes to an end at home, people are like, oh, well,
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: we thought you were improving, but you're not quite there yet.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and that's why it feels so pervotal,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: you know, for both sides this weekend. And I don't
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: think it's going to be I think it's going to
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: be you know, it's probably gonna be one score game
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: either way. It doesn't feel like either team's going to
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: be able to really flex on the opposition. I'd be surprised.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Maybe we'll come back and recall on Sundal on Monday
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: and we'll be eating our work, dudes, and there will
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: be a huge blowout. But it feels like with the
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: nerves and the storylines and everything going into this game,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: it's poised for a grandstand finish and it could be
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: just you know, a moment or two and that's where
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: you do look to the bench and you do go, yep,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: they're probably you know, stacking it with a lot of
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Lions plays is a smart move from England. So to
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks, Yeah, again, whether their bench can stand
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: up where they get what they need out of McKenzie
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Leonard Brown. You know Ratzima has played two minutes on
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: this tour so far. You wouldn't want to lose Roy
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: again that one hundred percent. I mean you look at
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks record with Roy guard over the last
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: couple of years is ridiculous. Didn't play against South Africa
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: this year. I think the only test, and may be
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: wrong about this is the French Test last year in
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Paris that he's lost since Scott Robinson took over. He
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: is pivotal to this team. So does he stay on
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: for another you know minutes and then you basically give
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: him the last test of the year off next week
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: against Wales.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: Yep, definite.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I mean going to look at It's just it's fascinating.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: I think there's so many different storylines to the Hollis
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: might unfold this week, right, final thought from New Lam prediction.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: Please, Yes, this it pains me, Elias, but I've tipped
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: England all week and I'm not gonna waiver. Actually, I
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: just think there was an interesting stat today that there's
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: only five All Black starters returning from this time last
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: year at Twickenham, and I think that speaks to some
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: of the big outs in this team. No Jordi Barrett,
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: no Caleb Clark, Vi Patrick two polo to Tyro Lomax.
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: And this is at a time where the All Blacks
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: don't have strength and depth, and so I don't think
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: this is the best team.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: I'm not fully convinced by what we've seen the past
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: two weeks.
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: I worry about the fatigue from last week having played
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: half an hour one man short.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Look, they could pull it the bag, the All Blacks.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: But I just feel like.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: This is potentially going to be England's day, which is
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: going to be a tough pill to swallow. In front
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: of eighty two thousand at Twickenham.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to say the All Blacks win by six.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: So there we go, There we go. Well, I hope
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: you're right.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: We will see right. That'll do us for Rugby Direct.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: We will be back early part of next week with
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: a podcast. Will the All Blacks still be searching for
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: a Grand Slam or will we be talking about the
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: ramifications of a loss at Twickenham.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: But we'll put a pint on this one saying we've
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: got differing predictions.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we will, all right done. We'll put a pint
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: of brains. Brains. That's exciting, you had brains. Hopefully it's
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: you shouting, not me right, that'll do us for Rugby
• 20:52
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• 21:01
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• 21:04
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