Latest / Wildly Curious / Inside the Mind of The Plant Prof: A Conversation with Dr. Vikram Baliga

Transcript

Inside the Mind of The Plant Prof: A Conversation with Dr. Vikram Baliga · Wildly Curious

• 0:44
  Hey everyone, welcome to For The Love of Nature, a podcast where we tell you everything you need to know about nature, and probably more than you wanted to know.
• 0:51
  I'm Katie, and Laura will be here as soon as her baby stops complaining.
• 0:55
  But I am joined by Vikram.
• 0:58
  He is off of.
• 0:59
  If you guys have listened to Plant Apology, and if you haven't, please do, but we're gonna have Vikram here and we're gonna talk all about Plants.
• 1:08
  Hey Brickham.
• 1:09
  Hey, how's it going?
• 1:10
  Not thanks for having me.
• 1:11
  Absolutely.
• 1:12
  No, we've been talking like we've been like online podcast friends for quite a while now, so it's great to finally have you on.
• 1:21
  Yeah, it's great to be here.
• 1:22
  I, uh, it, it's, it's funny because, uh, you know, I feel like Nature Podcast Twitter's real strong.
• 1:28
  Oh yeah.
• 1:28
  Like, there's like a lot of people on there, and then I feel like eventually I get to talk to.
• 1:34
  Everyone that I'm friends with on there, it's just like, you know, how do we work that out?
• 1:38
  Yes.
• 1:38
  As far as as like making it makes sense, right?
• 1:40
  No, it, and it is, and it's so many interesting people and just, I mean, somehow we, um, Laura and I say this all the time, but somehow we always find each other.
• 1:50
  I don't know what it is about, like science people.
• 1:53
  We just, we find each other somehow, no matter what it is.
• 1:57
  Yeah.
• 1:57
  Through fr through friends of friends or just, you know, we kinda like, I think like the same types of content.
• 2:02
  Yep.
• 2:03
  And, and the algorithm, like keys in on that, like, oh, just forces us to like each other.
• 2:08
  Yeah.
• 2:08
  Maybe some, sometimes.
• 2:10
  And it's like more than You know, you want it to, it's like I've seen too many posts about prairie dogs today.
• 2:15
  Right.
• 2:15
  And the algorithm's, like you looked at one too many of these and this is all you get to see for the rest of our Yeah, right.
• 2:19
  Just, just prairie dogs.
• 2:21
  Just prairie dogs.
• 2:22
  That's it.
• 2:22
  All prairie dogs all the time.
• 2:23
  I wouldn't complain.
• 2:24
  I wouldn't complain.
• 2:25
  So Vikram and I, we are both in Texas, actually not too far apart.
• 2:29
  Like what, about four hours?
• 2:30
  You'd say I'm in Fort Worth, something like that.
• 2:31
  Yeah.
• 2:32
  About four hours.
• 2:32
  Yeah.
• 2:32
  So do you wanna just give a little bit of your background on who you are and, what do you do?
• 2:37
  Because you actually, I mean, it's diverse.
• 2:39
  You do a little bit of everything and anything.
• 2:42
  Yeah, so I, uh, I'm up here in Lubbock in the southern panhandle of Texas, so, yeah, not too far from you, but much drier and windier and Right.
• 2:52
  All the things.
• 2:53
  Yeah.
• 2:53
  But I, I work at Texas Tech University.
• 2:55
  I am a lecturer right now about to be, I don't know when this is coming out, about to be an assistant professor of practice of horticulture.
• 3:03
  Hello.
• 3:04
  Congrats.
• 3:04
  Um, oh, thanks.
• 3:06
  Yeah, that's been, I don't know that it means anything other than my business card gets bigger.
• 3:09
  There is, but uh, you know, it sounds good.
• 3:12
  No, that's awesome.
• 3:14
  And then I run our greenhouse and horticultural gardens on campus at Texas Tech.
• 3:18
  So I teach intra horticulture.
• 3:20
  I play in the dirt.
• 3:21
  I work with student workers in the public.
• 3:24
  And, uh, let's see, I podcast and for better or worse, have a TikTok for better for worse.
• 3:31
  If you guys don't fall, what's your TikTok handle?
• 3:34
  The Plant Pro.
• 3:35
  Yeah.
• 3:35
  It is a good channel.
• 3:36
  It really is.
• 3:37
  You really do get some really good traction over there for sure.
• 3:40
  Oh, well, it, it's fun, you know, and it was one of those things that in 2020 when all of my student, like we, we left for spring break in March and then just never came back.
• 3:49
  Yeah.
• 3:50
  And like all my student assistants had to go home.
• 3:52
  Like we, we weren't allowed to have students on campus till like, I don't know, June or July of that year, so like four months.
• 3:58
  It was like just me putting Google eyes and just me and plants.
• 4:02
  Uh, yeah, like watering plants.
• 4:04
  And I think I started TikTok as a way to like, Give myself an outlet while I was there for hours and hours.
• 4:11
  Watering, going crazy.
• 4:13
  Yeah.
• 4:14
  But it's been fun.
• 4:15
  Yeah.
• 4:15
  Yeah.
• 4:15
  So make sure you guys go follow'em cuz it, you really do post consistently and a lot on, on TikTok.
• 4:21
  Uh, yeah.
• 4:22
  I am on there quite a bit and uh, just, you know, and it's, it's funny cuz I don't really plan much out.
• 4:27
  It's just whatever happens to be relevant that day or pops into my head and a lot of it's just throw away content.
• 4:33
  But every now and then there's some interesting stuff that he's lying.
• 4:37
  He's selling himself short.
• 4:38
  It's good.
• 4:38
  It's all, it really is All good.
• 4:40
  So make sure you guys go check him out too.
• 4:41
  So let's go ahead and we have some questions for you.
• 4:44
  And then as always, we're just gonna keep it as a casual conversation and whenever Laura's baby decides it would like to sleep, she'll be running in here.
• 4:54
  All righty.
• 4:54
  So let's go ahead and we'll start the very beginning.
• 4:57
  Plants.
• 4:58
  Has this always been a lifelong obsession or is this just something you woke up one day and you're like, this is it?
• 5:04
  Plants.
• 5:05
  Plants is now my life.
• 5:07
  You know, I, I've actually always liked plants to some, some degree or another, you know.
• 5:11
  So my mom and I lived with my grandparents mm-hmm.
• 5:15
  When I was little.
• 5:17
  And my granddad was like an avid gardener.
• 5:19
  And so like, I saw my earliest memories are like messing around in the backyard, gardening and you know, planting trees and just doing whatever.
• 5:25
  And so I've always been into plants and gardening and all of that.
• 5:30
  And when I started college, I was going, so I started in engineering.
• 5:36
  Ugh.
• 5:36
  I went to Texas.
• 5:37
  Yeah, I know.
• 5:38
  I went to Texas a and m and I was gonna go to engineering, do engineering, and then go to med school and all of this stuff.
• 5:45
  And then I, I realized, After my first year of college and an internship that I don't like blood and I'm bad at calculus.
• 5:54
  You're like, maybe engineering and medical is not for me.
• 5:58
  Those were, those were gonna be problems.
• 6:01
  And so, I was talking to advise an advisor and they were like, you know, what do you, what do you like to do?
• 6:06
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:07
  And I was like, well, I've always liked plants.
• 6:09
  And so, my undergrad was in horticulture, actually.
• 6:13
  All, all my degrees are in horticulture, but I have a bachelor of arts in horticulture.
• 6:17
  Actually.
• 6:17
  I studied landscape design.
• 6:19
  Oh, wow.
• 6:19
  Okay.
• 6:20
  And then my master's was in tree crop production.
• 6:24
  I studied olive olives in South Texas.
• 6:26
  And then my PhD was in urban water conservation.
• 6:29
  Oh, nice.
• 6:29
  And it's all horticulture, all plants all the time for.
• 6:33
  A lot of years for everything.
• 6:36
  That's awesome.
• 6:37
  So we, you talked a little bit about how you're professor out of Texas Tech, which I, you guys won't be able to see, but I feel like I'm sinning right now.
• 6:44
  I know That's okay.
• 6:45
  I have a, I have a Texas Longhorns cui, I'm not even from here, but I have enough like poor influence around me that I just acquire this, but my, my son forces you can't help it.
• 6:55
  I know.
• 6:55
  My son forces it on me cuz he, he, we moved here when he.
• 6:59
  Two and a half.
• 7:01
  And so mm-hmm.
• 7:02
  As he says, he's like, I'm a Texan.
• 7:04
  He actually got mad at really mad at his dad a few weeks ago cuz his dad was joking and told him that he was born in Arkansas, like at the military base.
• 7:12
  And so he's like, technically you're an Arkansan.
• 7:14
  And my son was so upset because he is like, I'm a Texan.
• 7:18
  Like, he was so good for him, so upset.
• 7:21
  So most of this stuff.
• 7:23
  But yeah, I like took a drink and I was like, oh no.
• 7:25
  Um, I, I don't care as much as I probably did, so, you know, I went to a, my undergrads from a and m.
• 7:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:31
  My other degrees are from Texas Tech and so I used to care a lot and I just don't, for those of you that aren't in Texas, again, I'm not from here.
• 7:39
  It is like a blood bath sometimes when it comes to Texas universities and, and who's better?
• 7:46
  And fandom.
• 7:47
  It is insane.
• 7:49
  Oh, the rivalries are real.
• 7:50
  Like really real.
• 7:52
  Yeah.
• 7:52
  And we get, you know, It's funny because like if you talk, if, if a, if you're talking to a Texan from anywhere, that is not Texas.
• 8:01
  Like, we are very much like go team.
• 8:04
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:04
  Like every, everything, like we're the best state, you know, best country in the world, whatever.
• 8:09
  Uh, but then inside Texas, like we fight even more Yes.
• 8:13
  About like, like who's the real Texan?
• 8:15
  Yeah.
• 8:16
  Right.
• 8:17
  Yeah.
• 8:18
  Uh, it's one of those things.
• 8:19
  It, it really is.
• 8:20
  So what, what classes are you teaching right now?
• 8:24
  So right now I, I just teach intro horticulture.
• 8:27
  Okay.
• 8:28
  Uh, and, and oversee the program we have this semester.
• 8:31
  So it's me and two other instructors, and then we have five, oh, I'm forgetting someone.
• 8:38
  Yeah.
• 8:38
  Five TAs.
• 8:40
  So we teach about four to 500 students a semester in this course.
• 8:44
  Oh.
• 8:44
  And 15 or anywhere between 12 and 16 labs and Wow.
• 8:49
  Um, so I teach one of the lectures and I oversee the program like as a whole.
• 8:55
  And I'm working on developing a couple classes.
• 8:57
  There may be a few that I pick up over the next couple years, but we're not completely sure what that's gonna look like yet.
• 9:04
  Yeah.
• 9:04
  What's your favorite class that you ever taught?
• 9:06
  Um, you know, actually, and, and it sounds weird cuz a lot of people that teach don't like teaching intro classes.
• 9:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:13
  But I love it, like, yeah.
• 9:15
  I genuinely love it.
• 9:16
  And so it's a, um, it's a course science here at Texas Tech, so we get like, okay, 90% non-majors.
• 9:22
  Right.
• 9:22
  They're just trying to fill a life science requirement and primarily freshmen.
• 9:27
  And so, like, I'm getting a lot of these kids.
• 9:29
  That's when you hook'em.
• 9:30
  Oh yeah, no, a hundred percent come, come to the plant side and like, well that and like.
• 9:36
  You know, uh, I don't know.
• 9:38
  I, I teach big classes, like I have 125 ish students this semester in my lecture.
• 9:44
  And, but I feel like, you know, teaching freshmen and teaching people that don't know, I, I mean, let's be honest, most freshmen coming into college have no idea what they want to do.
• 9:53
  They have Yeah.
• 9:54
  No idea what, what they're doing.
• 9:55
  Like, it's the first time away from home for a lot of them.
• 9:57
  A lot of these kids come from small town Texas or small town usa that, like, Lubbock's not a huge city, but it's probably the biggest place a lot of'em have been.
• 10:06
  Yeah.
• 10:06
  Especially around that area.
• 10:08
  Yeah.
• 10:08
  And like, you know, I, I think it's a cool, unique opportunity to, uh, One.
• 10:14
  Yeah.
• 10:14
  Try to hook'em into plants and be like, Hey, horticulture's a like a real major.
• 10:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:18
  You can do things in this.
• 10:20
  But also like, I, I like the opportunity to try to make sure they don't just get like, lost in these huge freshman classes.
• 10:28
  Like, yeah, I'm not gonna learn everyone's name, but we have, you know, fairly small labs and something we kind of impress on our TAs is like, you know, build these relationships where you can, like, we wanna make sure that they're getting a good experience as they're coming to the university cuz it's, it kind of can, can set the tone for like, the rest of their academic career and like I feel like that's important.
• 10:49
  Yeah.
• 10:49
  Really could.
• 10:50
  No, that is, that is great ma'am.
• 10:53
  I need to come on, take some of your classes.
• 10:54
  So how would you approach or how do you approach teaching students nowadays about plants?
• 10:59
  Because like, you kind of hit on a little bit cuz it really is something that is all around us.
• 11:04
  But so many people just overlook it, don't appreciate it, don't slow down.
• 11:09
  So kind of how, what's your approach?
• 11:10
  Like you said that you like teaching freshman sort of because of that aspect, but do you kind of, um, push on that a little bit harder?
• 11:18
  Yeah, I, I think I do a little bit and, you know, as a course science class, it's, I don't know how to say it the right way, like it's about plants, but, but for more than that, for me it's about like, science literacy in general.
• 11:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 11:33
  Like, like how do, how does the process work?
• 11:35
  What does the scientific process look like?
• 11:37
  Like, you know, we're assaulted with information constantly today.
• 11:41
  Um, absolutely.
• 11:42
  And some of it's bad.
• 11:43
  A lot of it is bad and some of it's real good.
• 11:46
  And so some of it for us is we try to make sure that they have at least a basic understanding of how the scientific process works.
• 11:53
  And so when they get a piece of information, like how can they critically evaluate it and, and.
• 11:59
  In the context of plants that kind of lets us take it from sort of a.
• 12:05
  Holistic view of like, well, I, I actually go the other way.
• 12:08
  So I start real specific and we start like at the cellular level and build up.
• 12:13
  And then the last unit that we're about to start is on like ecosystems and sustainability and industry and a lot of intro classes Flip that.
• 12:20
  And do they do, yeah.
• 12:22
  Uh, like all the big level, high level stuff early on, but like, I like to address it of what is the question we're answering right?
• 12:29
  Is like, how do plants work?
• 12:31
  How do they interact with the environment?
• 12:33
  And some of the basic cellular stuff lets me build on that and tell the story from like a real narrow focus to the big picture in the long run.
• 12:41
  Yeah.
• 12:41
  And I feel like once we've learned about, okay, how does a plant work in general, how.
• 12:49
  Interact with the soil and water and sunlight and everything else.
• 12:52
  How do, um, external like factors influence stuff like photosynthesis?
• 12:58
  Yeah, I think it gives a better appreciation when we start talking about, okay, now this plant does not exist on its own.
• 13:05
  It's in this ecosystem with other plants and animals and all the stuff.
• 13:09
  And I think, at least for me, the way I learned that contextualizes it a little bit better.
• 13:14
  Yeah, I think it did because I remember like thinking back now that you point that out.
• 13:18
  So I took, let me think here.
• 13:20
  I took a botany class, my first botany class.
• 13:22
  I lucked out.
• 13:23
  I actually took it overseas whenever I was in Australia.
• 13:26
  Wow.
• 13:26
  And so I, well it was one of those things like I got x number of credits for going overseas and then I got to kind of, Which ones mm-hmm.
• 13:35
  I wanted it to cover.
• 13:36
  And because I didn't exactly get along with the professor that taught a lot of the botany classes, I was like, that one.
• 13:43
  But yeah, so I, the first one I took was over there and I did a lot of studying with Epiphytes and tree canopies mm-hmm.
• 13:48
  And things.
• 13:49
  And so that was a lot of fun.
• 13:50
  And so, but that was just like, hey, just very general.
• 13:53
  General.
• 13:54
  And so then whenever I got back, I started taking botany, like an actual, I had to take another botany class, and we did do it big picture down.
• 14:01
  And I do remember sitting there thinking, okay, well, how, like, and I have, like, I have an interest in science.
• 14:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:07
  And I remember even then being like, okay, how does this fit in to th but wait a minute, how does that go to that?
• 14:12
  Like, how does this go to that?
• 14:13
  So I think flipping it, like you said, that makes a lot more sense.
• 14:17
  And, and I think that, you know, my, my idea is that, okay, so like of my 125 students, or of our 400 whatever students, most of'em are gonna go and finish their business degree or, or English degree or whatever it is they're doing.
• 14:32
  And they may never like, have a career in plants and most of them won't.
• 14:36
  Yeah.
• 14:36
  And that's fine.
• 14:37
  Yeah.
• 14:37
  But if they can go in their backyard someday and like be able to keep their fruit tree alive or have a Yeah.
• 14:46
  Better appreciation for like where the food in the grocery store comes from or a any little piece of like, I think I feel like we're building this big puzzle for people of like eco consciousness and like consciousness about the world around us.
• 15:02
  And even if all I do is give them one of those pieces, I feel like I'm doing my job.
• 15:07
  Absolutely.
• 15:08
  Bicker me.
• 15:08
  Just changing lives out there.
• 15:10
  Just doing a good job.
• 15:12
  No, that's, that's awesome.
• 15:13
  So what is your favorite plant and or group of plants?
• 15:18
  So I was thinking about this question and.
• 15:23
  Because you knew it was coming.
• 15:24
  I mean, I did, and I was trying to figure out how to, um, answer this well, because there's so many, and it's hard for me to choose.
• 15:32
  But I think my favorite plan is it because the classifications are so horrible when it comes to plants that is very much part of it about it.
• 15:39
  Lord and I bicker about this all the time.
• 15:41
  We're like, it's just so different.
• 15:43
  We're like, stop.
• 15:44
  Why can't plant people just make this a little bit easier?
• 15:47
  Oh, it's terrible.
• 15:48
  It's terrible.
• 15:49
  And like they keep changing stuff, like all the time.
• 15:52
  Like we, you know, we used to teach, we teach plant ID and stuff, and several have been reclassified in the past.
• 15:58
  Ugh.
• 15:58
  Co.
• 15:58
  Yeah, it's fun.
• 15:59
  Um, I think one of my favorite plants, I'll throw one out there is a little plant called a Blackfoot daisy, uh, Mel Daisy melon podium.
• 16:08
  Lucan, I, I don't remember exactly.
• 16:10
  And it's just this little.
• 16:11
  I don't know this little mound of daisy with like bright white flowers with Oh yeah.
• 16:16
  Yeah.
• 16:16
  But so during my masters the, one of the professors I studied under one of my advisors did a lot of wildflower research.
• 16:23
  Like that was a major part of her work.
• 16:25
  And so, uh, my colleagues and I, my, uh, cohorts and I would go out and Remind me again, did you get your graduate degree in Texas?
• 16:33
  Yes.
• 16:34
  So actually both.
• 16:35
  Okay.
• 16:35
  Both my master's and PhD are from Texas Tech.
• 16:38
  Okay.
• 16:38
  Okay.
• 16:39
  I can't.
• 16:40
  Yeah, cuz I was like, dang.
• 16:41
  Well cuz I was also gonna say that's not surprising cuz wildflowers people in Texas go crazy for their wildflowers.
• 16:48
  It is a thing.
• 16:48
  I mean, and it's gorgeous.
• 16:50
  Like I, when I first moved out here, I, everybody was like, oh, hey, it's gonna be like, wait till spring, just wait till spring.
• 16:56
  It's gorgeous.
• 16:57
  And then I was like, holy.
• 16:58
  Like it took me by surprise how gorgeous Texas is.
• 17:01
  It's pretty amazing.
• 17:02
  And we have such vastly diverse ecosystems mm-hmm.
• 17:05
  That no matter where you go you see something different and it's always really interesting.
• 17:09
  Yeah.
• 17:10
  But we would go out and we would just like drive on the side of the highway and like in, in our.
• 17:15
  Crappy old Texas Tech fan.
• 17:18
  Like we'd see like a patch of wildflowers and we had like permits and stuff to collect seed for.
• 17:55
  Yeah.
• 17:55
  Um, uh, improving the, the genetics and studying the genetics, things like that.
• 18:00
  And one of my fellow grad students and I had climbed up on this like, I don't know, little rock outcropping on the side of the highway and there was a Blackfoot, it hadn't rained like at all that year.
• 18:10
  It was dry, it was probably a hundred degrees.
• 18:12
  And there was this little Blackfoot daisy growing in probably an inch of soil between two rocks.
• 18:17
  And it looked just like the pictures you probably just looked up like perfect.
• 18:20
  Yeah.
• 18:20
  It was perfectly happy.
• 18:22
  And I'm like, if this thing can survive out here in the middle of nowhere, baking in the sun, like it deserves my respect.
• 18:29
  Yeah, fair.
• 18:30
  That's fair.
• 18:31
  But it's a great landscape plant.
• 18:32
  It's great for a lot of things.
• 18:33
  And so I'm, that's one of my favorites for sure.
• 18:36
  That's awesome.
• 18:37
  Can you tell us about a current project or research focus that you're particularly passionate about?
• 18:42
  So, most of my work today goes into community and multipurpose landscaping or mul community and multipurpose horticulture, I should say.
• 18:51
  So, we do a lot of work right now in the greenhouse on, uh, different production systems, so mm-hmm.
• 18:57
  Hydroponics, aeroponics, um, you know, soilless production growing with different types of lights and fertilizers, but like sort of controlled environment, greenhouse growing.
• 19:08
  And then part of my job is in a kind of a weird situation.
• 19:12
  We had a piece of land in a, in the middle of a neighborhood donated to our.
• 19:17
  Hmm.
• 19:18
  Um, and it is the site of a community garden that has been Oh, cool.
• 19:24
  It's like a double city lot, right.
• 19:25
  Right in the middle of the neighborhood where a lot of tech students live.
• 19:27
  And so, because I'm the greenhouse and garden guy that became my project.
• 19:32
  Yeah.
• 19:32
  Right.
• 19:32
  You know, let's facet to this guy.
• 19:34
  Sure.
• 19:35
  But, you know, we are, we're looking a lot at like, how does that improve quality of life and neighborhoods and food security and all that.
• 19:43
  So, also how do we do like multipurpose landscapes if you're Yeah.
• 19:47
  You know, going to landscape, how can you use edible plants or, uh, pollinator plants or plants that have more than just an aesthetic value.
• 19:56
  Like, fill up your landscape so that, oh, it looks great.
• 20:00
  Uh, it improves your property value, does all the things, but hey, I've got tomatoes I can give to my neighbors or eat our myself or take to a farmer's market or whatever.
• 20:08
  So, that's kind of, for me, a big area of focus is like community level multipurpose, like horticulture and agriculture.
• 20:16
  Yeah.
• 20:16
  Do you, do you like aquaponics?
• 20:18
  Hydroponics?
• 20:19
  I do.
• 20:20
  That's always something that's like fascinating because I don't think people understand the yield that, that, that those can give off.
• 20:26
  Oh, it's crazy.
• 20:27
  Like, I mean, we're talking about de so lettuce is, for example, one of the major crops grown hydroponically.
• 20:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:33
  Um, and I, I think for the same amount of water and the same amount of space you get like 10 times the yield in just a standard like floating hydroponic system, which is nuts.
• 20:44
  It's nuts.
• 20:45
  And, and we have found that through aeroponics, which is similar except like instead of it just sitting in water, the roots are suspended.
• 20:53
  Like in the air.
• 20:54
  Yeah.
• 20:54
  And then like nutrients and water are spraying onto the roots.
• 20:57
  And so, um, oh well, let's back up one second.
• 21:00
  Sure.
• 21:00
  Can you tell, uh, give everybody a brief overview of hydroponics versus aquaponics?
• 21:05
  Cause I'm like, I know what this is, but can you just explain real quick what those are so that the guests know?
• 21:10
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:10
  So, hydroponics is like soilless growing.
• 21:13
  It's like using just water and nutrients or whatever to grow plants.
• 21:17
  So think about if you had a five gallon bucket and plants like set in the lid of the bucket and the roots grow down into the solution that's hydroponics.
• 21:29
  Like, that's super simple.
• 21:30
  If you've got a jar that you took a cutting from something and stuck it in and it's growing roots, you're growing hydroponics, like it's just growing in water.
• 21:40
  Aquaponics is sort of the same thing except you add like fish or shrimp or some other kind of, uh, animal to the system.
• 21:49
  So essentially the fish as they poop and do what fish do add fertilizer to the water and then the plants clean the water or take up the nutrients and then scrub the water for the fish.
• 22:00
  And then aeroponics is very similar to hydroponics again, except that the roots are suspended in the air and we spray nutrient solution on the roots.
• 22:09
  So do you, do you, have you found a difference as far as the yield goes between like the three?
• 22:14
  Is there a difference or would you just say it's kind of, it's up to the person, how they take care of it and things like that.
• 22:21
  So that's a big part of it for sure.
• 22:23
  And, and research is ongoing, I would say.
• 22:26
  Like hydroponics was kind of where it started and it's not new technology.
• 22:30
  We have a, uh, yeah, evidence of the, the Aztecs doing hydroponics as early as 1100.
• 22:37
  Ce,.
• 22:38
  And like a thousand years ago, almost like doing, like building big rafts and sticking plants in them and pushing'em out in the lake, like Yeah.
• 22:47
  Which is incredible.
• 22:48
  So aquaponics with fish is probably about the same on the plant side, but a lot of people are growing like shrimp or crawfish or tilapia or a catfish, so you get sort of a meat crop out of it as well, or a meat product as well.
• 23:06
  From, just like, I have a grad student that is just graduating this semester, and his project was on aeroponics, and he went to Home Depot, bought buckets, designed the whole system by himself.
• 23:16
  He built the whole thing himself including like coding the spray pumps and the circuit boards and everything else.
• 23:22
  He did the whole thing.
• 23:23
  Uh, wow.
• 23:24
  And we saw about double the yield in aeroponics versus hydroponics, uh, with the same amount of water use.
• 23:32
  And so it's, I mean, it's interesting.
• 23:35
  So we're finding that like there's all these interesting ways to grow plants that are super efficient.
• 23:40
  Um, and like, I don't think that conventional agriculture's going anywhere.
• 23:45
  Like we're still gonna keep doing the thing, but we can supplement food supplies, especially in places where like growable, like farmland is at a premium.
• 23:55
  Yeah.
• 23:56
  And especially like what, so then whenever you're talking to folks and you're giving like the, the urban water cycle or you're talking about, um, Like the community gardens and things like that.
• 24:06
  Is hydroponics.
• 24:07
  Aquaponics, is that something that you particularly push?
• 24:09
  Just because one, I mean it saves water, saves space and it does have such a high yield.
• 24:15
  Yeah.
• 24:15
  It's something that we're starting, starting to get into and we're looking at, um, we're trying to get some grant funding to get something called a freight farm which is essentially a shipping container.
• 24:24
  Oh yeah, I've seen those.
• 24:26
  Yeah.
• 24:27
  And like they can produce something like 4,000 heads of lettuce in a season.
• 24:31
  Whoa.
• 24:31
  Yeah.
• 24:32
  Laura's here, by the way, guys.
• 24:33
  Hi Laura.
• 24:35
  Sorry I had to tune in on that one.
• 24:36
  That was nothing.
• 24:37
  Just as Laura's not eating that, what is it?
• 24:40
  A cupcake brown?
• 24:41
  A brownie.
• 24:42
  Just, it looks good.
• 24:43
  It was on the discount wrap.
• 24:45
  That's the only place I get my desserts anymore sometimes.
• 24:48
  Those are the best ones actually.
• 24:50
  Yeah.
• 24:50
  Right.
• 24:52
  Or I mean, and we, we've talked about on the podcast before, how, how much water lettuce uses in particular.
• 24:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:59
  So that's amazing.
• 25:01
  Well, it does, and, and in this system it's a, all a closed system.
• 25:04
  It's like l e d lights and all it needs is a power supply and like a hose hookup.
• 25:08
  And they can like take these and drop'em pretty much anywhere and like they cost a couple hundred thousand dollars.
• 25:14
  But if you think about it, like it can create jobs in Yeah.
• 25:17
  Uh, urban communities, again, it's a huge food supply.
• 25:21
  And uh, like we're looking at the feasibility of like, how, how could we do research of, in like public green spaces, maybe in like a public park or a pocket park in a major city, like dropping one of those units in there and producing food like for the neighborhood and employing people who live in that neighborhood to run it.
• 25:42
  Yeah.
• 25:42
  Like that is like in my mind, like prime community agriculture.
• 25:48
  Yeah.
• 25:49
  The, the way that we can improve communities and neighborhoods and people's health and everything else along with it.
• 25:55
  So is it kind of like other renewable things where it's like super heavy up upfront costs, but then really like the long term maintenance isn't that much?
• 26:03
  Yeah, in general, like yeah, it's, yeah, like I said, maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars up front, but the, all the lights are LEDs, so they're fairly efficient.
• 26:10
  It's a recirculating system and whereas you may look at like, you know, 40% efficiency in a field setting, growing lettuce, this is like 95% efficient.
• 26:20
  Whoa.
• 26:20
  Yeah.
• 26:21
  Dang.
• 26:21
  And, and all you really have to buy, I mean, yeah, there's some repair and upkeep, but usually these companies, it's not just freight farms, there's several they have like service contracts built into the price and pretty much you have to buy seed and yeah.
• 26:35
  That's cool.
• 26:35
  That's kind of it.
• 26:37
  Yeah, that's, that's amazing cuz I know even here in Fort Worth, we have a food, a pretty.
• 26:41
  Not a pretty big, but a big enough food desert.
• 26:44
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:45
  Um, section of our city where there's just, there's just nothing.
• 26:47
  And for you guys that don't have never heard the term food desert before, it's just like we're no, like in the middle of a city where there's no, uh, at least grocery stores.
• 26:57
  I don't know how exactly how they define it, but it's no grocery stores in an area, basically.
• 27:02
  They have to go out of their way, like significantly out of their way to go to a grocery store.
• 27:06
  It's not like something they can walk to.
• 27:08
  It's not something they can easily take a bus to or a bus route to.
• 27:10
  You know why?
• 27:11
  It just because of, Hmm.
• 27:12
  Just like.
• 27:14
  Well, it's because like, I mean, I know here in Fort Worth, just cuz I can speak to that, I mean, it's just how the houses were all built up and it was just houses and houses and houses and there was just no developer that came in Gotcha.
• 27:24
  And said like, oh, we should put something here.
• 27:26
  So then it's either, now it's to the point where you're gonna destroy, you know, houses, you know, how are we gonna get stuff?
• 27:31
  So there have been thinking about like alternative and interesting ways to kind of figure out and how to, how to fix this problem because it is, it is bad.
• 27:40
  I mean, they changed up, I believe they changed up up some of the bus routes and things like that to kind of go through there a little bit quicker and, and things.
• 27:46
  But I mean, that's a problem.
• 27:47
  I mean, it's not just here, it's, it's in pretty much every major city you can find at least a pocket or two of where this happens.
• 27:54
  Yeah.
• 27:54
  And it's generally defined.
• 27:56
  Like you don't have a source of fresh produce or, or grocery store is what they actually define it as.
• 28:01
  Yeah.
• 28:01
  Within what they consider walking distance, which is usually a mile in an urban setting or 10 miles in a rural setting.
• 28:10
  So if you think about it, some of the big I know and like imagine even walking a mile with like.
• 28:14
  Grocery.
• 28:15
  Oh, your 10.
• 28:16
  Oh, in one trip.
• 28:18
  In one trip though.
• 28:19
  Cuz that's, I am a one trip grocery shop.
• 28:21
  Oh, no.
• 28:21
  So that would be until I threw out my back and then nevermind.
• 28:25
  I, I'm on the third floor, so like six trips later I'm like, I'm dead.
• 28:29
  Oh yeah.
• 28:30
  No.
• 28:30
  Yeah.
• 28:31
  Thanks.
• 28:31
  Yeah.
• 28:32
  Well, again, that is a big problem though.
• 28:34
  I mean, and it's, it's something that, like these hydroponics, especially like these shipping container ones that, I mean, that would be amazing if something like this could, could solve that issue.
• 28:44
  Well, and it, and the cool thing too is like, it doesn't even have to be that like, you know, they're doing, like there's research going on is, okay, you've got an abandoned Walmart or an abandoned mm-hmm.
• 28:55
  Sh uh, apartment building or whatever else.
• 28:58
  How do we turn that into a hydroponic growing facility?
• 29:00
  Right.
• 29:01
  How do we use that would be heaven for me.
• 29:03
  I.
• 29:03
  I would li I would just live there.
• 29:05
  You would just, okay, imagine people would be still in there, like the fresh smell, but also all these like kids, like local, you know, neighbors.
• 29:13
  I'd be that, that myth that all like neighborhood kids are like, there's this crazy lady that lives in the hydroponics building because I'd just be in there.
• 29:21
  This is amazing guys, because it is, it is a really, really neat, and I love a hydroponic system and the aquaponic system.
• 29:27
  It's fascinating to me.
• 29:28
  It is very cool.
• 29:29
  And so, yeah, I mean I think that was a very long answer to your question, but No, no, I think community horticulture and like controlled environment more like, again, agriculture's not going anywhere.
• 29:40
  We have a lot of people to feed and like we have to use a lot of land to do that, but we can, it'll, especially in urban se centers, especially in places that's like maybe in the middle of the desert where you have to ship food in hundreds of miles.
• 29:54
  Yeah.
• 29:54
  Like we can address some of those issues just by being a little bit creative and by using the technology available to us.
• 30:02
  Yeah.
• 30:03
  This is kind of a random question.
• 30:04
  Can you stack those shipping containers?
• 30:06
  I, I don't see why you couldn't.
• 30:08
  I don't know that they've, the, the one problem is you do have a water, a lot of water running through it.
• 30:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:13
  So they tend to be very heavy.
• 30:15
  There's a lot of like, infrastructure in them.
• 30:17
  Yeah.
• 30:17
  But like, that's a solvable problem, right?
• 30:20
  Like Yes.
• 30:21
  Like those are things, framework stuff.
• 30:23
  Yeah.
• 30:24
  Yeah.
• 30:24
  I mean, and so I, I think ultimately, like Yeah, you could have a stack of them.
• 30:28
  You could have, yeah.
• 30:29
  You know, and they're not that big.
• 30:31
  You could line fence lines with them.
• 30:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:33
  Um, there's a lot of cool stuff you could do.
• 30:34
  Awesome.
• 30:35
  You could Awesome.
• 30:35
  Really utilize space really, really well.
• 30:38
  Oh yeah.
• 30:38
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:39
  Yeah.
• 30:39
  So I know this is sort of like a broad question, but can you speak to the role of plants in our ecosystem and why they're important to study and conserve?
• 30:47
  Yeah, so plants, I like to tell people that plants are at the bottom and top of our food chain.
• 30:55
  And people laugh at me when I makes sense say that, but like, like plants feed all the things, right?
• 31:00
  Whether you're mm-hmm.
• 31:01
  Like a, a vegetarian, you just eat plants or you're a carnivore and you just eat meat, like your food eats plants, right?
• 31:07
  Where the idea coming from, right?
• 31:09
  And, and plants have this, are this, these amazing.
• 31:13
  Sort of engines that turn sunlight into everything else that we use, right?
• 31:19
  Like they, they harvest sunlight, they turn it into sugar, something else eats that.
• 31:22
  And then like that thing maybe gets eaten.
• 31:25
  And, but, but ultimately, like if we think about it, all matter on the planet at some point, like is driven by the energy from the sun.
• 31:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 31:34
  And plants are the mechanism that convert that into a usable form, like a chemical usable form.
• 31:39
  And so, and then eventually, like as animals die, as plants die as, as things return back to the ecosystem and decompose plants take those component parts and recycle them back into the system.
• 31:55
  And so plants and, and, and fungi, I have to, you know, there's always one fungus person out there that's like, they're working together.
• 32:03
  Yeah.
• 32:04
  There's always some like my, that's like, well actually, and they, you know, Uh, don't wanna tick off any of my colleges today.
• 32:11
  Nothing.
• 32:11
  No, I've, I've seen the last of us.
• 32:12
  I know it like, um, but, but yeah, so they, they are the sort of great producers on this planet where they take various forms of energy, mostly solar energy and turn it into stuff that we can use.
• 32:25
  And it's just incredible.
• 32:26
  Like from hamburgers to houses, like we can't do that without plants.
• 32:31
  I love to talk about that, especially with the younger kids who have a trees program at the Nature Center.
• 32:35
  And I, one of the big things that I like to hit on is how similar trees in particular, but how our systems are very similar.
• 32:44
  Like, you eat, they eat, they just eat something different, they're eating sunshine.
• 32:48
  And you know, like how our bodies are very similar and process things similar, structures similar.
• 32:53
  We just look different.
• 32:54
  We do things a little bit differe.
• 32:57
  Yeah.
• 32:57
  And, and it's funny cuz we're all chasing, you know, energy in some form, whether it's nitrogen or carbon or some, you know, combination of the two.
• 33:05
  Like, those things make the world go around.
• 33:08
  Right.
• 33:09
  So we kind of already hit on this a little bit, but what do you see as a future of botany and plant sciences and where do you think the field is headed?
• 33:17
  So I think our big challenge, well we, we have a few, um, you know, uh, as a, as a planet, you know, species, whatever.
• 33:26
  Yeah.
• 33:27
  I think addressing things like how do we sequester more carbon?
• 33:30
  How do we make plants that are more efficient with the way they grow?
• 33:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:34
  Um, so they trap more things from our atmosphere.
• 33:36
  But then the big thing is like our big, one of our great big challenges I think we face is that there's so many of us and over, over population's kind of a myth.
• 33:47
  Like we have the, like our, our.
• 33:50
  Planet has a space carrying capacity, the space for plenty of people.
• 33:53
  Yeah.
• 33:54
  And they're saying 10 billion by 2050, right?
• 33:56
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:57
  Um, that's kind of the number I think gets thrown around.
• 33:59
  And we can feed all those people.
• 34:01
  We just have to figure out how to be more efficient at it.
• 34:05
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:05
  Yeah.
• 34:05
  At the things we grow, how to be more equitable in the ways that we get food to people.
• 34:10
  Absolutely.
• 34:11
  Yeah.
• 34:11
  And how to not wreck all of our natural systems in the process, right?
• 34:16
  Yeah.
• 34:16
  Yeah.
• 34:16
  So, I think by doing better job of plant better jobs, of plant breeding and researching things like hydroponics and aeroponics and all this stuff, like we start to again, fill in like, pieces of that puzzle.
• 34:29
  Um, but that's where I think we're headed.
• 34:31
  I think we're figuring out how to make food more nutrient dense, um, how to, uh, clean the air better and how to produce food more efficiently.
• 34:41
  That's awesome.
• 34:42
  Yeah.
• 34:42
  That's really cool because I think a lot of people, I think the big struggle for a lot of, even just nature lovers, like a lot of people that I've worked with in the past would say that they like nature, but they're not necessarily into plants.
• 34:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:54
  But I think it's because they're not seeing plants is the essential piece in everything.
• 34:59
  Yeah.
• 34:59
  That in order to know about animals, you have to know about plants because of what they eat or where they live or anything like that.
• 35:05
  And so thinking about botany as how to make the system more efficient, I think a lot of people have never thought about, they're thinking about botanists is just the people going out there looking at flowers.
• 35:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:17
  Not necessarily.
• 35:18
  Yeah, for real.
• 35:19
  I mean, serious.
• 35:19
  I just definitely think just vicker of skipping through the planes in West Texas.
• 35:24
  Just out.
• 35:27
  Yeah.
• 35:27
  But I definitely like, there is the side of like that just like any other kind of science and any other kind of science who, who works with a system.
• 35:37
  Making it a more efficient, better working system, especially in the constraints that we have to work within.
• 35:44
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:44
  And, and that's a really a, a good way to put it too, because like if you look at a natural system, like everything sort of balances itself out.
• 35:50
  They tend to be as efficient as they need to be, you know, no more, no less.
• 35:55
  They kind of find their balance, but, you know, we don't have natural, like truly natural ecosystems anymore.
• 36:02
  Like there's, there's nothing we haven't touched.
• 36:04
  We're right.
• 36:05
  We keep tweaking things a little bit here and there, and then something else has to make sure that tweaks back the other direction.
• 36:11
  Right?
• 36:11
  And so, like, our job, I, I think now with scientists in this field is just to like, like one, let's not break it more, you know?
• 36:20
  Amen.
• 36:21
  Let's start that, let's start there.
• 36:24
  But in the process, like how do we take these systems and how do we take what we know and what we've learned and um, like apply those tools to making things better where we can.
• 36:36
  Yeah.
• 36:39
  All righty.
• 36:39
  So, before Laura got on here, we did talk a little bit about, you know, your social media and everything, but how do you think that just either as in the botany field or just us as scientists, how do you think we can better engage the public with botany and plant sciences and, and why?
• 36:55
  The importance of it?
• 36:56
  Because first of all, we did talk about your, your TikTok, but we have not talked about, you have a freaking book coming out in July, which looks amazing.
• 37:06
  Well, thanks.
• 37:07
  I'm super excited about it.
• 37:09
  Um, I am too, as an adult, I'm excited about it.
• 37:13
  Like it's not geared towards me, but I'm pumped.
• 37:16
  It's so colorful and bright and I'm like, I'm excited.
• 37:19
  I'm always excited when, when any scientist makes their stuff approachable for especially younger audiences.
• 37:26
  Yeah.
• 37:26
  So this book's called plants to the Rescue.
• 37:29
  And it's about kinda what we've been talking about actually.
• 37:31
  Like how do we use science and use the things plants are already doing to address things like pollution and, and climate change and hunger and all that stuff.
• 37:41
  The illustrator Brian Lambert is absolutely incredible.
• 37:44
  Like yeah, it looks absolutely incredible.
• 37:46
  Insane.
• 37:46
  Yeah.
• 37:47
  But yeah, it comes out in July and it's, it's kind of geared at like seven to 10, 12 year old, something in there, or Katie.
• 37:53
  It's fine.
• 37:54
  Well and it's funny cuz I was reading through it and I was like, I'm enjoying this.
• 37:59
  Which I guess is a good thing that I like, it's, it's your own book and you're like, wait a minute, this is fun for me.
• 38:05
  Yeah, no it was, and and it's funny cuz like, it, it was a process that took like a year and so like going back and reading some of the stuff I'd written at the beginning of the process mm-hmm.
• 38:14
  Was kind of fun cuz I was like, I've done a lot since then.
• 38:17
  Yeah.
• 38:17
  And yeah.
• 38:19
  I was like, oh, I, yeah, I did write that.
• 38:20
  That's interesting.
• 38:21
  Um, yeah.
• 38:22
  But just in general, like, I think one of the big problems we have in science is that we don't, we don't close the feedback loop.
• 38:29
  And what I mean by that is like as publicly funded scientists, people are mm-hmm.
• 38:35
  Paying us to do the research, right?
• 38:37
  Like mm-hmm.
• 38:38
  We are literally paid by the taxpayers to, to do science.
• 38:42
  Like that's whether, whether people in academia want to admit that or not, it's the truth, right?
• 38:48
  Yeah.
• 38:48
  And then we take this data we generate and we write it in jargon that people don't understand.
• 38:54
  And we put it in journals that are pay walled and we're never giving the people who paid for the product the thing that they paid for.
• 39:01
  Yeah.
• 39:01
  It's really just for peers.
• 39:02
  It's all for our, our peers.
• 39:04
  Right.
• 39:05
  Which are on behalf of us.
• 39:06
  Know what you're like talking about now.
• 39:08
  Yeah.
• 39:09
  Yeah.
• 39:10
  And it may be like, oh, one little nugget, but how, like, how much more could we do if we took that and like, Put it out so everyone could understand it and like, yeah, extens extension Services do that.
• 39:20
  Mm-hmm.
• 39:20
  Like, it's being done, but like, by and large, like we don't get training in academia for that.
• 39:25
  We don't get incentivized in academia for that.
• 39:27
  You know, it's like, oh, great, but how, how many like publications do you have?
• 39:30
  Right.
• 39:31
  Right.
• 39:31
  Yeah.
• 39:31
  Uh, you know, you could have 5 million downloads on a podcast, and they're like, oh, that's nice.
• 39:36
  And, but, but like, how many peer reviewed journals do you have?
• 39:38
  I don't have 5 million downloads, by the way.
• 39:40
  That's not, uh, that's, that's a, that's a pipe dream.
• 39:44
  But, um, like I, I think that anything we can do from TikTok to Twitter to Instagram or anything else just to let people see the science that we're doing, even if it's in little glimpses.
• 39:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 39:59
  Like, I think that's meaningful.
• 40:00
  Yeah.
• 40:01
  Um, I think like de jargoning, like the, the science we do is super important.
• 40:06
  Absolutely.
• 40:07
  Yeah.
• 40:08
  And also like, and I say this to my colleagues all the time.
• 40:10
  I had to give a talk one time on like.
• 40:12
  How do you approach like social media communication or just like science?
• 40:17
  Like my number one rule or my number, my top two rules are be a real human being.
• 40:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 40:22
  And don't be a jerk.
• 40:25
  Like, like that's a easy Yeah.
• 40:28
  Yeah.
• 40:28
  Like, just don't just be nice to people.
• 40:31
  Like, like don't, don't be arrogant when you answer something.
• 40:34
  Like it's not a crime to not know stuff, you know?
• 40:37
  Yeah.
• 40:37
  It's not a crime to be wrong about stuff.
• 40:39
  And so like communicate in the way that people need, like, can understand it and like have a personality and, and be a real human being too.
• 40:50
  Yeah.
• 40:50
  And, and, and it is just enjoying it because so many of us, you know, in the science field, we're definitely not in it for the money.
• 40:57
  And so we are.
• 40:58
  And so we are passionate, but then I think somewhere along the way, so many people, Because of the low pay, just because of life's stress, you kind of lose that passion that you, that, that you once had just cuz you get tired.
• 41:12
  And so, or Vicker was saying like something, not everyone is ever trained to talk to people either.
• 41:17
  Yeah.
• 41:17
  Like you're a hard sciences person.
• 41:19
  Most of you didn't have to take many speech classes or like interpersonal communication or anything like that.
• 41:26
  Yeah.
• 41:27
  Anything like that.
• 41:27
  Yeah.
• 41:27
  Education classes.
• 41:29
  I think we're seeing with more social media and things like that, it's not like these channels that are science based are, are failing.
• 41:36
  Like people are interested in the content.
• 41:39
  Content, right.
• 41:39
  Because it's approachable.
• 41:41
  So I think that if we, if, if science would continue to push in the direction of being approachable.
• 41:48
  Crossing the bridge to get to people without the jargon, making it clear and straightforward and trying to meet people where they're at.
• 41:54
  People are interested in it, it's not a lack of interest.
• 41:56
  Mm-hmm.
• 41:57
  It's just a lack of being able to get there.
• 42:00
  Well, and I think too, like, you know, not everyone is comfortable like me putting my big dumb face on the internet all the time.
• 42:08
  Right.
• 42:08
  Like, and, and, and you don't, you don't have to be.
• 42:10
  Right.
• 42:10
  I don't think people should have to do that, but I think if you get a call from someone at a podcast or a, so, so one of my main rules, and I've done traditional media too, I've, I've done radio and TV and like a little bit of everything.
• 42:27
  My rule is when I get called by a reporter, I figure out how to help them, like mm-hmm.
• 42:33
  As much as I can, because I know that if they're like writing about science, they're gonna talk to somebody.
• 42:40
  Yep.
• 42:41
  Yeah, that could be me.
• 42:42
  Yep.
• 42:43
  That could be some, like who, who maybe knows something about the field they're interested in, or it could be someone who maybe doesn't.
• 42:49
  And I wanna make sure that even if I'm not the one out there, like telling the story, that I am informing those stories as well as I can.
• 42:58
  Yeah.
• 42:58
  It's gonna be a piece of it perspective.
• 43:00
  Like, like even if you don't know it all, they're at least, okay, well, Vikram said this and this other person saying something totally different, maybe I actually have to look more into this.
• 43:09
  I go with Vikram.
• 43:13
  Yeah.
• 43:13
  Well, you know, I appreciate that.
• 43:14
  Well, that's, that's a scary thought.
• 43:16
  But, uh, but no, I, I just think that even, even if you're not the one out there making the content, be willing to supply some of the information that the people who are doing it need.
• 43:27
  Right?
• 43:27
  Yeah.
• 43:27
  I think that's very true because not everyone, not everyone needs or can do everything, but if you can be supportive of somebody who's doing the other thing, Like, even if, you know within your university, like you don't have to be that person doing the social media stuff, but give them the information so that someone else can Right, right.
• 43:48
  And I, I, you know, and it's not an easy problem to solve, but I think that we've made, I think in the last 10 years, huge steps in the right direction.
• 43:56
  You know, bill and I walked 30 years ago so that we can run the day, you know, yeah.
• 44:02
  Uh, doing some of that public science communication stuff.
• 44:04
  And it's, it, it's a big task.
• 44:07
  But again, like you said, you know, there's the Hank Greens of the internet who just get on and tell funny dad jokes and talk about science, and people are there for it.
• 44:17
  They're there for it.
• 44:18
  They're so there for it.
• 44:19
  Oh, they are?
• 44:19
  Yeah.
• 44:21
  Yeah.
• 44:21
  There's so many, so much.
• 44:22
  So you mentioned.
• 44:25
  So Vikram, you did mention about like how far we've come, you know, in the last 10 years since Bill and I and, and things like that.
• 44:31
  So where do you think the field of botany is going in the next 10 to 20 years?
• 44:36
  We talked a little bit about like, you know, from a perspective of, I don't know, more of academia, more of study research and things like that.
• 44:43
  But just in general, what do you, what do you hope to see happen?
• 44:46
  Um, I, you know, I hope to see, again, more people getting interested in plants.
• 44:50
  And it's funny cuz like I, I started college in 2005 graduated in 2010.
• 44:58
  I did a victory lap.
• 44:59
  It's fine.
• 45:00
  Um, it's, I changed majors at least once.
• 45:03
  It's, it happens.
• 45:04
  Yeah.
• 45:05
  Um, but like when I got into plants, people were like, why you doing that?
• 45:09
  Yeah, that's boring.
• 45:10
  You know?
• 45:11
  But now plants are aesthetic and like, like plant Instagram is like real strong and plant TikTok and Oh my gosh, yes.
• 45:20
  And all this stuff.
• 45:21
  And I think that.
• 45:22
  Instead of being scared of it, like the field of botany needs to like, like really lean into that.
• 45:28
  Not so much from the, you know, I'm gonna sell a monster on Etsy for$400.
• 45:32
  Like, that's stupid.
• 45:33
  But, but in the being willing to like, Hey, here's a picture of me in the lab doing stuff.
• 45:40
  Right.
• 45:40
  And I think that yeah.
• 45:42
  Botanists or like, and horticultures and plant people, like we're just so thunderously nerdy.
• 45:48
  Uh, yeah.
• 45:49
  But in, maybe in the best endearing sort of way.
• 45:53
  Yeah.
• 45:53
  And it's like the entomologist and the ol, I mean, really.
• 45:55
  Come on.
• 45:55
  It's, it's all the niche scientists, all the scientists are really nerdy a paleontologists, but I think that's what people Oh, for sure.
• 46:02
  Like, because you're into it.
• 46:04
  And that comes and that comes through like that passion and that nerdiness, it does come through and it, and whenever it's genuine like that, people do jump all over it.
• 46:12
  Because I mean, if you're getting excited, excited about something, especially plants are like, okay, this guy's really excited.
• 46:17
  Maybe I should get excited about, you know, X, Y, z.
• 46:20
  And I think too, because plants are so different than us, at least in most people's head, that it's all new or it's all really weird and interesting and people are really into the weird and interesting facts about things.
• 46:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 46:31
  So if you can just catch people with the weird and interesting Yeah.
• 46:36
  I think people will be on board and, and I think that's where we need to be.
• 46:39
  Like I think that's where we need to be headed and.
• 46:42
  Improving diversity in our field, improving equity in our field.
• 46:45
  Mm-hmm.
• 46:46
  I think we're doing a good job in botany of that in the plant sciences of that.
• 46:50
  Just think like thinking about a conference I'm going to this summer and some of the keynote and all that.
• 46:54
  Like, I think we're getting there.
• 46:56
  But I want us to, to see it be more accessible.
• 46:59
  I want to see it be more equitable and just to ha see us like publicly having lots of fun being plant nerds like that.
• 47:07
  That's where I want it to go.
• 47:08
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:10
  Here in Maryland, man, people are like, the native plant movement is strong.
• 47:15
  Like you this time of year you can't throw a rock without hitting a native plant sale, which is awesome.
• 47:20
  People are really into their native plants here.
• 47:23
  Um, like that's great.
• 47:24
  Some of the counties have just passed.
• 47:26
  HOA laws used to restrict what you could and couldn't have in your yard.
• 47:30
  And now one of the counties right around here said they can't say that anymore.
• 47:33
  If you want your yard to look like a native field, it can, and the HOA can't do anything about it.
• 47:38
  Oh, wow.
• 47:39
  Actually, they did that in Texas recently too.
• 47:41
  Like the HOAs can't disallow like drought tolerant native plants and stuff like that.
• 47:45
  You may have to get like a, a design passed by the HOA board, but like, as far as the types of materials, like they can't say no, you can't use that.
• 47:53
  It's, you know, like, well, it's a dry, it's a trout tolerant plant.
• 47:55
  Yeah, I can, it's pretty cool.
• 47:56
  Which is cool.
• 47:57
  Yeah.
• 47:57
  Yeah.
• 47:57
  So I definitely think that more and more and more and more people like it's a slow, slow growing, but yes.
• 48:04
  But I, I had a colleague that used to say that education is a long and repetitive process, and I think about that a lot.
• 48:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 48:13
  When I do this kind of thing and when I go out and.
• 48:16
  Do a TikTok about Bradford Parish for the 400th time and how we should set them all on fire, right?
• 48:23
  Uh, yeah.
• 48:24
  Right.
• 48:24
  Uh, because again, you don't know where people are in their educational process.
• 48:29
  Yeah.
• 48:29
  And like that may be the first time they heard it, and so like mm-hmm.
• 48:32
  Uh, I think as communicators and the scientists, we need to like, I don't know, I don't know a better way to say it other than just like, suck it up and do it.
• 48:41
  Just like, just like give the message again, because if we really believe in what we're saying, we should be willing to deliver that same message over and over and over without it turning into like an aggressive message.
• 48:53
  Right.
• 48:53
  Because I have definitely seen that end up happening on some of, some of the nature forums that I belonged on their.
• 48:59
  Oh, for sure.
• 49:00
  Somebody brings up the fact that this plant is like a toxic plant, and some people are like, oh, well here's this, let's do some education about, what is it, Nandina, it's toxic birds, Uhhuh.
• 49:09
  And other people are like, take that outta your yard right now.
• 49:12
  Like, it is extreme.
• 49:15
  I, uh, for sure.
• 49:17
  Oh gosh, that's, that's the truth.
• 49:18
  Like, just try to talk about having a front lawn on the internet.
• 49:24
  But like, I think if we approach all of these things with like empathy and compassion, like it, it makes it easier to be like, okay, people may not know it.
• 49:33
  And I think kind of like we talked about earlier, like it is not a crime to not know things.
• 49:36
  Yeah.
• 49:37
  And that's like my mantra sometimes is like just approach people with compassion and it makes this whole thing a lot easier.
• 49:45
  Yeah, definitely.
• 49:46
  So one last big question of our main questions.
• 49:49
  Laura and I have talked about this multiple times, but over the years there's been more and more research about plants and how they communicate or take care of each other, all this other kinds of stuff.
• 49:58
  Do you I knew we were going here within our kids' lifetimes.
• 50:02
  We'll start to view plants and trees and trees in particular as being closer to animals than how we see them now.
• 50:08
  Oh gosh.
• 50:08
  Because plants do some really awesome but cool things.
• 50:11
  Oh, it's incredible.
• 50:12
  They're these vastly complicated organisms that Yeah, people kind of go like, there's this, there's this concept known as plant B blindness, cuz they're just always there.
• 50:22
  They fade into the back horn.
• 50:23
  Right, totally.
• 50:24
  But no, they're communication systems, whether it's through like fungal networks, underground or uh, compounds, they release into the air or there was a paper just released that there's actually ultrasonic sounds they like so wild, like elephants.
• 50:40
  I miss that.
• 50:41
  Yeah, like, like when plants are, and it's different.
• 50:44
  So like if a plant is under drought stress, it produces one kind of sound.
• 50:47
  If it's being PR that's screaming.
• 50:49
  If it's being no, and like if it's being wild predated on by like a caterpillar, it's a different type of sound.
• 50:57
  And there's, there is some data, I don't know how compelling the data is, but there's some data that other plants can detect those vibrations and start changing.
• 51:08
  Yeah, we did their biology, we talked about that.
• 51:11
  Uh, it was through sound, remember?
• 51:13
  Yeah.
• 51:13
  They were talking about the Yeah, the caterpillar sound in me particular that a plant was producing more toxin when they were played that sound in a lab setting.
• 51:21
  And, and things like volatile organic compounds.
• 51:24
  Like they'll like mm-hmm.
• 51:26
  Uh, you know, tomatoes have a very specific smell.
• 51:28
  Like if you've ever had a tomato plant like it is Yeah.
• 51:31
  The only thing that smells like that and it's, it's hard to explain.
• 51:34
  Yeah.
• 51:35
  Um, yeah.
• 51:36
  But there are receptors on other tomato plants that can definitely pick that up.
• 51:40
  So if they're being chewed on it releases that stuff in the air, and the other plants start sort of like gathering their defenses.
• 51:47
  But also there are predators like parasitic wasps and, uh, birds and other insects that can detect those chemicals.
• 51:57
  So the plants are literally calling in reinforcement That's so wild and off from animals.
• 52:02
  Yeah.
• 52:02
  Yeah.
• 52:02
  As they're being like chewed on.
• 52:04
  And there's just so much we don't understand about how they interact with them, with each other, with the environment.
• 52:12
  There's data that shows that.
• 52:14
  Like, it's kind of a common thing that if you go outside more, you're, you know, healthier and happier and all those things.
• 52:20
  Mm-hmm.
• 52:21
  But now there's data that, there's plant compounds and plant pheromones that they release that we have receptors for in our brains that literally being out in nature is good for our health in a physiological sort of way.
• 52:33
  And so, I think yeah, in 20, 30 years, our concept of how and what plants are is definitely gonna change as we, uh, our technology gets better.
• 52:45
  Yeah.
• 52:45
  Uh, for mm-hmm.
• 52:47
  Measuring some of these things, I think like we are just right on the edge and, and right at the beginning of what we could understand about the natural world around us.
• 52:56
  I feel like it'd be the same as if we did end up finding like an alien species.
• 53:00
  That even though we share the world with plants, they're such an alien organism comparatively to us that we're just like, I don't know what to measure.
• 53:08
  Or like, we haven't until recently.
• 53:10
  Right.
• 53:10
  You know?
• 53:11
  Right.
• 53:11
  Like how we can't think about, well, they don't have a brain so clearly that they, they're, they don't think, okay, but what if it's a different way or Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:19
  Yeah.
• 53:20
  So yeah, it'll be interesting.
• 53:21
  Yeah.
• 53:21
  What if it's something that like, we just don't even have like a file in our brain.
• 53:25
  Exactly.
• 53:26
  Right.
• 53:26
  Yeah.
• 53:27
  Yeah.
• 53:27
  Yeah.
• 53:27
  It'd be like coming across, right.
• 53:28
  Something that wasn't carbon based.
• 53:29
  Okay.
• 53:30
  Well then how, where do we even start?
• 53:31
  Like where, how does it work?
• 53:32
  How do we think about this?
• 53:33
  Yeah.
• 53:34
  We don't know.
• 53:34
  Yeah, we don't, and, and I think it's important to understand too, in science that we don't know what we don't know.
• 53:41
  Yep.
• 53:42
  And that we should be constantly thinking about that as we approach the scientific process.
• 53:47
  That we have to evaluate and reevaluate our conclusions and we have to test the things that we thought didn't need testing as new technologies and new processes become available for us.
• 53:57
  And that's how we move science forward by constantly asking the same questions maybe in different ways or using different tools.
• 54:05
  Yeah, that's awesome.
• 54:07
  So we'll take Vikram.
• 54:08
  He's on our bandwagon of plants are gonna be animals.
• 54:11
  We're all gonna be closer or organisms than we thought we were.
• 54:15
  Yes.
• 54:15
  Absolutely.
• 54:17
  All right.
• 54:17
  So Vikram, before we let you go becau we haven't done this with any of our other guests, but because we knew you were gonna be fun, we decided, I wrote a bunch, I wrote a bunch of lightning round questions, so there's 10 questions here we're gonna ask.
• 54:30
  Okay.
• 54:30
  And just as soon as I read'em your answer, just the first thing that comes to the top of your head.
• 54:35
  Got it.
• 54:35
  All right.
• 54:36
  Number one, have you ever named a plant after a celebrity?
• 54:40
  No.
• 54:42
  I should.
• 54:43
  Katie, what have you?
• 54:44
  Should have I, no, but I did name one whenever I was married.
• 54:48
  I named one after my ex-husband at the time because he hated that plant.
• 54:52
  And so I named it Carl.
• 54:54
  And then he picked it up like, I was like, Hey, can you move it?
• 54:57
  Cause I wanted to like soak it in the shower and stuff.
• 54:58
  I was like, Hey, can you move it?
• 54:59
  And he picked it was a fiddly.
• 55:01
  And so he picked it up and right into the fan and it just like, oh, oh, no.
• 55:06
  The whole top.
• 55:07
  And I had been like, taking care of this.
• 55:09
  Yeah, I, it was amazing.
• 55:10
  And I was like, you dropped off Carl Jr's head, like, and he just took off the whole top of it.
• 55:15
  So I constantly used to name like, stuff like that's after my ex-husband, cuz he hated it.
• 55:20
  And because it was so funny.
• 55:21
  Cause I'd be like, did you move Carl today?
• 55:22
  And he's like, stop it.
• 55:24
  I'm like, I thought it was hilarious.
• 55:26
  It's objectively pretty funny.
• 55:28
  Yeah, it is.
• 55:28
  It really is.
• 55:29
  Yeah.
• 55:29
  All right.
• 55:30
  Number two, if plants could talk, what do you think they would say?
• 55:33
  Oh gosh.
• 55:33
  There'd be a lot of screaming.
• 55:35
  Uh, right.
• 55:36
  I like, I think we would walk through a forest and they would just look at us like, why are you this way?
• 55:41
  Uh, yeah, you, I think.
• 55:43
  Plants like peppers would be real confused.
• 55:46
  Um, we're poisonous.
• 55:48
  Why do you keep eating us?
• 55:49
  Yes.
• 55:50
  What is wrong with you?
• 55:51
  Weird monkeys.
• 55:52
  Like, yeah.
• 55:53
  Yeah.
• 55:53
  What do we have to do to keep you from eating us?
• 55:56
  Right?
• 55:58
  If you could be any plant, which one would you be and why?
• 56:02
  Um, I'm gonna say a coffee tree cuz I'm mostly that already.
• 56:06
  Funny.
• 56:09
  Fair, very fair.
• 56:10
  Have you ever seen a plant with a funny name or nickname, which is like your favorite one that you've come across?
• 56:16
  Oh gosh, that is a good question.
• 56:19
  Uh, a funny name or a nickname.
• 56:25
  I, how, I can't think of anything Good for this.
• 56:27
  I'm there.
• 56:27
  This should be easy, but there's so many weird ones out there.
• 56:30
  Yeah, so many weird ones.
• 56:31
  Um, oh, oh, oh, oh.
• 56:33
  I have a good one.
• 56:33
  Um, there's one called the Gimpy Gimpy in Australia, and it's like a stinging nettle tree that like Yes.
• 56:41
  It feels like being stung by bees nonstop for months.
• 56:44
  It sounds fun.
• 56:45
  Fun until you, until something happens.
• 56:47
  Yeah, it does.
• 56:48
  Like, hey, this is a great time.
• 56:49
  This is like, it's not, it makes me think of like, three-legged races can't be good, but uh, but it is a nightmare.
• 56:58
  A literal nightmare of a plant.
• 56:59
  Yeah.
• 56:59
  That's the one that people have like committed, like they've unaligned themselves, right?
• 57:03
  No, they have, that's what I'm, yeah.
• 57:04
  Cause of the pain from it.
• 57:05
  Yeah.
• 57:06
  Horrible.
• 57:06
  Yeah.
• 57:06
  Yeah.
• 57:07
  Yeah.
• 57:07
  Horrible.
• 57:07
  What is the strangest place you've ever seen a plant grow?
• 57:11
  Uh oh.
• 57:14
  Uh, outta, outta, outta gutters.
• 57:16
  Like they grow outta gutters all the time.
• 57:18
  Like on top of buildings, out of the side of buildings.
• 57:21
  They don't care anywhere.
• 57:22
  Seed lands, especially like elm trees, cuz the, the seeds just blow everywhere and they're like, I'll, I'll grow into the side of this building, why not?
• 57:29
  This is fine, this is fine.
• 57:30
  I don't even care.
• 57:31
  Okay.
• 57:32
  And name just right now, this isn't your question, but what is your favorite plant that you have right now, like in your greenhouse?
• 57:41
  Ooh, I have, um, oh, I can't remember the, it's, it's, uh, midnight Splendor or something.
• 57:47
  It's a, it's an Aden, it's a desert Rose.
• 57:51
  Um, okay.
• 57:52
  And it's this weird looking like plant with this like bulbous stem, and it puts out the most incredibly beautiful flowers.
• 58:00
  I can't remember the, the variety name, but it's, it's really cool.
• 58:03
  I mean, anything called midnight splendor.
• 58:05
  Wowser, that's an awesome name.
• 58:06
  Yeah.
• 58:06
  Yeah.
• 58:07
  All right.
• 58:07
  Yep.
• 58:07
  So, so at that plant in mind, If you could give that plant a voice, what would it sound like?
• 58:13
  And you need to demonstrate it right now.
• 58:14
  Oh my God.
• 58:16
  Uh oh.
• 58:20
  What would it sound like?
• 58:21
  Uh, definitely it would have a deeper voice, I think, and it would talk real slow and it would probably be a jazz singer.
• 58:29
  I don't know how to do that.
• 58:30
  Okay.
• 58:30
  Okay.
• 58:31
  Okay.
• 58:32
  I can see that.
• 58:32
  I can definitely Free tones of your midnight splendor.
• 58:35
  Yep.
• 58:36
  Like on a cruise ship, but not like, but yeah, but like, not like a real good one, like on a cruise ship somewhere.
• 58:44
  He's on the, or on the fair circuit.
• 58:46
  Yep.
• 58:49
  What would be the most embarrassing thing that could happen to a plant?
• 58:54
  Uh, Like, let's go back to peppers.
• 58:59
  Like let's go back to peppers.
• 59:00
  Like, that has to be insulting, right?
• 59:02
  Like, I think of any plant that has like defense chemicals, peppers, coffee.
• 59:07
  Like, they're like, we, we use this as an insecticide.
• 59:11
  And the monkeys are just running around real fast.
• 59:13
  I don't know what's happening.
• 59:14
  Yeah.
• 59:15
  Yeah.
• 59:17
  All right.
• 59:17
  You have three more torture questions here.
• 59:19
  Uh, if you could make a plant dance to any song, which one would you choose?
• 59:24
  Which song would you choose?
• 59:25
  It would have to be something from the eighties.
• 59:28
  Uh, uh.
• 59:29
  Good start.
• 59:30
  Good start.
• 59:32
  It's a good dance song from the eighties.
• 59:34
  I, I kind of get like groot from, um, oh, uh, guardians of the Galaxy Vibes when he's, you know, dancing to eighties music, obviously all eighties.
• 59:43
  Yeah, that's what sticks in my head for some reason.
• 59:45
  Or like disco.
• 59:47
  I don't know.
• 59:48
  That would be, I feel like that lends itself well to plants with all the like branches and, I don't know, flashy bits in 10, fif in 10, 15 years.
• 59:55
  When we find out that music really does help, we're just gonna pass vikram's greenhouse.
• 59:59
  It's just gonna be like blaring disco music outta there.
• 1:00:01
  Just like, looks like a journey or take.
• 1:00:05
  Yeah.
• 1:00:05
  Right.
• 1:00:06
  Okay.
• 1:00:06
  Uh, number nine, have you ever had a dream about a talking plant?
• 1:00:12
  I don't think I have.
• 1:00:14
  Do you dream in plants?
• 1:00:15
  I, you know, I don't, I mostly dream about being late to stuff.
• 1:00:19
  Stress.
• 1:00:20
  Yeah.
• 1:00:20
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:21
  I have a lot of stress.
• 1:00:22
  Or the only stress, the only ones I remember seem to be stress dreams.
• 1:00:25
  I've been in academia a long time.
• 1:00:29
  I dream about not knowing what class I'm going to a.
• 1:00:33
  Which I haven't even been in school in a long time, but it's still ingrained of like, I don't know my schedule.
• 1:00:39
  Where, where am I going next?
• 1:00:41
  Yep.
• 1:00:41
  Or like I'll, I, I had a dream not too long ago of showing up to class and my students being like, we have a test today.
• 1:00:46
  I'm like, uh, no, you don't.
• 1:00:48
  Wait.
• 1:00:49
  Yeah.
• 1:00:49
  Yeah.
• 1:00:49
  Are you sure?
• 1:00:50
  Yeah.
• 1:00:52
  All right, last one.
• 1:00:53
  If you were stranded on a desert island with only one plant, which would you choose and why?
• 1:00:58
  Um, I'm gonna, Ooh, ooh, this is a good one.
• 1:01:04
  Wait, is it desert?
• 1:01:04
  Desert?
• 1:01:05
  Like there's no other living plant on that island?
• 1:01:08
  No, no, no.
• 1:01:08
  Deserted like a Okay.
• 1:01:09
  Okay.
• 1:01:10
  Deserted Island.
• 1:01:10
  Island.
• 1:01:11
  Yeah.
• 1:01:11
  Sorry.
• 1:01:11
  Sorry.
• 1:01:11
  Like if there's just one, just one, one plant, you could have anyone that follows me on social media is gonna get a kick out of this.
• 1:01:19
  I'm gonna actually say a banana tree.
• 1:01:21
  A banana plant.
• 1:01:22
  Cuz you can do so much with them.
• 1:01:24
  You're pre versatile.
• 1:01:25
  Like the, the food is nutrient dense.
• 1:01:28
  Like the fruits are nutrient dense.
• 1:01:29
  The leaves can be used for shelter or wrappings or a lot of other things like clothes.
• 1:01:34
  Uh, I think, yeah, and I think they found that there's, there's, um, enzymes and the peels even that can be used to like, treat sunburns and like small wounds and things like that.
• 1:01:43
  And I yell about bananas a lot on TikTok, but, um, you all about bananas.
• 1:01:48
  I, I do my life's weird.
• 1:01:49
  A banana T-shirt too.
• 1:01:51
  Yeah.
• 1:01:52
  I yell about banana.
• 1:01:54
  Yep.
• 1:01:54
  Yep.
• 1:01:55
  That's my life.
• 1:01:56
  Yeah.
• 1:01:58
  That's, that's a great one.
• 1:01:59
  Well, Vikram, it has been fantastic to have you on.
• 1:02:01
  For you listeners, make sure you guys go over and listen to Plant, plant The Apology.
• 1:02:05
  Wherever you listen to your podcast.
• 1:02:07
  You said TikTok is Plant Prof.
• 1:02:09
  The Plant Prof, yeah.
• 1:02:10
  The, okay.
• 1:02:11
  I knew I was missing something in the Plant prof.
• 1:02:12
  And then Keep an eye out for his book coming out in July.
• 1:02:16
  I, I know.
• 1:02:16
  I'm, again, very, very excited for it.
• 1:02:19
  And then as always, make sure you guys can connect with us on Twitter, vikram's on Twitter as well, under Plant Anthropologies.
• 1:02:25
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:26
  Is that what you want them to have?
• 1:02:26
  Yep.
• 1:02:27
  So you can go to plant anthropology too.
• 1:02:28
  And then support us if you can.
• 1:02:30
  Yeah.
• 1:02:30
  Thanks so much, Vic.
• 1:02:31
  We appreciate it.
• 1:02:32
  Good to meet you.
• 1:02:32
  Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
• 1:02:33
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:02:34
  Yeah, you too.