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Does Personal Growth come from Adversity? The Tyler Foster Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:01
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
0:04
Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, welcome to the Nightmare Success In and
0:07
Out podcast where we explore how to overcome your fears and
0:11
nightmares to set yourself free. We're going to be exploring this
0:14
topic with guys that was in Leavenworth with and others who
0:17
survived their own nightmare. These stories can be inspiring,
0:22
sometimes sad. There's some humor, but
0:25
hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something that'll
0:28
help you knock down some of the prisons you built up in your own
0:31
mind. All right, welcome back,
0:34
Neighbor's success and not listeners.
0:37
This is where you come from. What happens when your worst
0:38
year becomes your reality? How do you adapt, survive,
0:41
overcome? Set yourself free, folks, Don't
0:44
forget to follow, subscribe, share this thing out.
0:47
Like it up. It helps the show comment.
0:50
So who are we talking to today? Well, I'm talking to Tyler
0:53
Foster and I think this was for me.
0:58
I thought it would be interesting to talk to somebody
1:01
who is 22 years old and I had this happen his his nightmare
1:07
happened to him as a teenager and he's now in law school.
1:13
And I thought it'd be just interesting to seek a lot of
1:15
people I interviewed from their 70s and 60s and 50s and 40s and
1:18
30s. I thought it'd be interesting to
1:19
see what life is like as a 22 year old being a justice
1:23
impacted person and what how is he perceived by his school
1:27
lawmates and everybody else that's around him.
1:31
It's give you a little bit of background on Tyler, he writes.
1:36
My first time in a courtroom was as a criminal defendant.
1:40
As a teenager, I was arrested and subsequently incarcerated
1:43
for several months behind bars. I witnessed the stark realities
1:47
of the criminal legal system, including the criminalization of
1:51
poverty, the inhumane conditions of confinement, and the lack of
1:54
access to the mental health and substance use treatment.
1:58
And one of the things that Tyler did while he was in, he became a
2:02
jailhouse lawyer, helping assisting people with their
2:06
cases, advocating for better conditions in the, in the, in
2:09
the jail, in prison he was in. And so this ignited a passion
2:13
for him for a criminal legal reform.
2:16
And so he's currently attending the University of Memphis Law
2:19
School and a full tuition scholarship.
2:22
He plans to pursue a career in the criminal legal reform.
2:26
I thought something was really interesting.
2:27
I hadn't heard before was he's currently serves on the board of
2:31
directors for the formerly incarcerated college Graduates
2:34
Network, which I didn't even know that existed.
2:37
So and the other thing was is he graduated 2 years early at the
2:40
University of Mississippi Memphis and he was earned BA in
2:45
Summa cum Laude graduate with good grades, so he didn't waste
2:51
any time with his opportunities. Can't wait to jump into all
2:54
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Tell them Brett from Nightmare Success since you auto Plaza
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Direct welcome in Tyler Foster. How are you?
3:36
I'm doing good. How are you doing?
3:38
I'm doing good. So you're on spring break.
3:40
So So what is what is a guy do on spring break that's in law
3:44
school? Is it is it truly spring break
3:47
or you still got all that stuff in your head that of law school?
3:50
What's next and what's going on? Or is it?
3:52
Are you, do you really taking a break?
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So unfortunately, the grind continues.
3:57
I have been participating in what's called Alternative Spring
4:00
Break. So each year my law school puts
4:03
together a series of different clinics for in partnership with
4:08
local nonprofits and practicing attorneys.
4:11
And so we provide legal assistance to low income
4:14
individuals in the Memphis area. So right now I'm working with
4:19
the expungement clinic. So we're working on expungements
4:22
for people who have a criminal record and trying to get the the
4:26
records cleaned, which will help them with employment, education,
4:31
housing. So that's what I'm doing.
4:33
There's also some other clinics, there's immigration, there's
4:37
fair fair housing, there's wills.
4:40
So there's a pretty good, I'm actually one of the on the
4:45
executive board of the Public action Law Society, which is the
4:49
student run organization that organizes alternative spring
4:52
break. So I've been pretty busy both
4:54
participating in the clinic and also helping to oversee and
5:00
manage the spring break. That sounds like a lot on spring
5:04
break, but I, I, I'm so glad and happy to hear that someone is,
5:10
is because in the state level stuff, expungements have become
5:14
something that people can do and it makes a huge difference and
5:18
how they get to go forward with their opportunities in life
5:22
after they, they get out of prison.
5:24
So it's, it's, it's, it's good work and it, and it truly
5:28
impacts people's lives. You know, Tyler, going back
5:33
before this whole nightmare happened for you, what was what
5:35
was like life for you growing up as a kid?
5:40
So I think I had a relatively normal childhood for the most
5:45
part. There were certainly some
5:47
difficulties along the way. I was raised by a single mother,
5:50
we experienced poverty for a time, and we're even homeless
5:54
for a short period. How?
5:57
Would you have been when you were homeless?
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I would have been, it would have been when I was about 8 or 9.
6:03
There were, yeah, about several months where our housing
6:06
situation was definitely challenging and we were kind of
6:10
moving around to different places just to, to get by.
6:14
But one thing I will say is that my mom was super supportive of
6:18
me growing up. She was very, very encouraging
6:24
of me and my brother to pursue education, to stay out of
6:28
trouble, work hard and take care of your responsibilities.
6:33
And for a while I was able to do that.
6:35
Eventually I did end up coming entangled with the criminal
6:38
legal system and then that was a very interesting experience,
6:44
something that really opened my eyes to some of the problems
6:46
with the criminal legal system and really helped me turn my
6:50
life around and get my life back on track.
6:54
Let's talk about that a little bit because I, I, you know, I
6:56
can't imagine eight or nine years old worrying about where
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you were living and not having somewhere to live.
7:02
Did you guys talk about that as a family or was it just one of
7:05
those things you just did as a family and it was more of just
7:09
surviving, gritting and out and, and moving forward?
7:12
Or did you guys sit around and say, gosh, you know, what are we
7:14
going to do tomorrow or the next day or the next day?
7:18
I think I don't recall ever really talking about it.
7:22
I think it was just kind of something that we just had to
7:25
get through. We had never really been one
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wants to complain or loathe and self pity about situations.
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The way I was raised is you keep, you keep going, you work
7:37
hard, do what you need to do to get by basically.
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So I don't recall us ever talking about it more.
7:45
It was more so just something that we had to do and then we
7:48
were eventually able to get back on our feet.
7:50
My mom got a good job. We were able to move into our
7:54
own house, which was nice, but there was that little period
7:56
that was definitely pretty good. I would think that would have an
8:01
impact on you, just on how you see the world.
8:04
Was was school for you? I mean, you obviously very
8:07
smart. Was school for you something
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that you enjoyed as a kid and as a teenager in high school?
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So I wouldn't say that I enjoyed it.
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I think that I was fortunate. I think it did come naturally to
8:21
me, so I didn't really have to put in a lot of effort studying.
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Certainly when I got to the around middle school, I was
8:29
still maintaining good grades, but I did start hanging with the
8:32
wrong crowd and getting into a little bit of trouble and had to
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deal with the consequences of that for a while.
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I was fortunate for high school. I was able to get into a
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Catholic High School in Chattanooga, which I got in on
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financial aid and it was really a good opportunity to be around
8:53
positive influences, people who cared a lot about school and
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were very involved in very community groups and nonprofit
9:03
volunteer work. So it was that was really
9:06
something that I think helped a lot to kind of create a path
9:11
that I was eventually able to get back to in terms of being
9:15
successful and being able to overcome my obstacles.
9:20
So how does a guy like Tyler Foster end up being, and how do
9:27
you end up getting into the system?
9:30
Yeah, so one thing that I've come to learn is that it can
9:34
happen to anyone in just a split second.
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In my case, I made a split second decision in a high
9:41
pressure, adrenaline filled situation.
9:44
At the time I thought that I thought I had made the right
9:47
decision. Looking back, I could have
9:50
handled it differently. So I take responsibility for my
9:53
actions and I ended up taking the plea deal, pleading no
9:58
contest and serving my sentence. I think that all goes to show
10:02
that just it's the split second decisions that a lot of people
10:07
make that in land them behind bars and in the criminal legal
10:11
system. So I think that there are
10:15
various, various way, various contributing factors to those
10:20
types of decisions. And I think that just given my
10:23
background, the way I grew up and the fact that I had had
10:27
friends and family members who had been incarcerated and there
10:31
was a certain way that I responded to situations,
10:34
especially when I was challenged or felt threatened certain ways
10:37
and I responded to it, that we're not conducive to avoiding
10:42
trouble, staying out of the criminal legal system.
10:44
So that's something that since then I've worked hard to
10:47
prioritize de escalation strategies, conflict avoidance,
10:50
just to make sure that I don't make the same mistakes again in
10:53
the future. Well, you, you've raised the
10:55
curiosity of the audience. What happened?
10:59
So it was a split second decision.
11:02
I got into a confrontation with another individual and I felt
11:07
that I was, I was in fear for my safety and I ended up shooting
11:10
him a couple times. I think it was we, our argument
11:15
was then it was self-defense. And looking back, I think there
11:18
was a self-defense component. But I also think that there is a
11:21
component of just being young and maybe a little bit hot
11:25
headed that I could have avoided the confrontation and maybe I if
11:30
I had taken other steps. But unfortunately I made the
11:33
choice than I did and I had to to account for my actions.
11:38
And I guess what when you talk about what happened, it was it
11:41
was the categorized as road rage.
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So it has something to do with the driving.
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And I mean, you hear about it a lot.
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I mean, people getting very upset, somebody cuts them off or
11:55
whatever the case is. And then they, you know, it's
11:58
those split second things. What were your thoughts, Tyler,
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When this happened? Were you, I mean, I'm sure the
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adrenaline was running high. Did you think that were you
12:14
worried that Met possibly this person was fatally shot?
12:19
So I just, it happened so fast that there wasn't really any
12:23
time to reflect on it. I don't even hardly remember the
12:26
aftermath. The I just remember the what led
12:29
up to the confrontation and then sitting in an interrogation room
12:33
at the police station recounting the series of events.
12:37
So I don't think there was any really conscious thought between
12:41
that time, at least not the night to recall.
12:44
So you get into this room and how old are you?
12:47
I was 19. 19 years old, you get into this room and they start
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interrogating you. Are you thinking you need an
12:55
attorney? Are you just in a daze and just
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answering questions like how does that process work for a 19
13:02
year old? Yes, it's.
13:04
Like what? What?
13:05
What happened? Right.
13:07
So I had no prior involvement with the adult criminal legal
13:11
system. So I didn't know like what the
13:15
5th Amendment was what that that is the amendment that entitles
13:18
you to remain silent or the 6th Amendment and entitles you to
13:21
council. So I didn't know any of that.
13:24
I do I think that they probably did read me my Miranda rights.
13:29
But when you're in that type of situation, you're in a very
13:32
small, maybe 8 by 8 foot room with a experienced detective,
13:39
you're in handcuffs. They've got the, you know, the
13:41
heat turned on figuratively and literally to really make you
13:45
sweat. You don't really think about
13:48
what your rights are, what you should be doing in terms of, you
13:53
know, putting your yourself in the best position to succeed a
13:56
trial. Your thought is that you need to
13:59
to, you know, you want to go home.
14:01
Yeah. You want to be helpful,
14:02
providing that the the information that they are
14:05
looking for. So I cooperated fully.
14:07
I told them exactly what I could recall and was fully cooperated
14:14
with them and just let them know.
14:15
Then I was trying to help them however I could.
14:18
When looking back, some of the stuff that I said, even if it
14:21
was innocuous, they have a way of twisting it in their reports
14:26
and at trial. And then you get locked into a
14:28
story. So if your story even deviates a
14:31
little bit later on, for example, a trial after you've
14:34
had a chance to reflect and here's some of the other
14:36
evidence and reconcile some of the inconsistencies.
14:39
Because you know, whenever you're in that type of
14:41
situation, your brain, you're going to be thinking, you're not
14:45
going to be thinking logically. You're going to be kind of
14:47
thinking it's the fight or flight response.
14:51
I would say, so you're going to be having little pieces, little
14:54
bits and pieces, and there's going to be inconsistencies in
14:56
your recollection. And then when you hear from
14:58
other witnesses, you see the evidence that they gather, then
15:01
you can kind of reconcile those inconsistencies.
15:04
But at that point it's too late because you've already given
15:06
your statement. So anything that you say, then
15:08
it's different. Even if it's the truth, they can
15:11
take it to, you know, twisted to say that you're lying.
15:15
Yeah. And I think that's one of the
15:16
biggest things out of, you know, it's the fourth season of this
15:20
show. And and the consistency of what
15:23
your statement is, is that they're professionals and you're
15:27
somebody that's in an emotional state.
15:29
And you need an attorney there to represent you, to know all
15:35
the things that you said you didn't know.
15:37
You don't know the 5th Amendment, you don't know the
15:39
6th Amendment, You don't know all those different pieces that
15:43
whether you're innocent or guilty, you still need those
15:46
things because you could be targeted as an innocent person
15:50
to make a narrative to make a case for someone when they
15:53
should be out looking for someone else.
15:56
So that's a, that's a real key to people knowing that
16:00
regardless of the situation, if you intertwine yourself with the
16:03
legal system, you need representation because you are
16:06
not the professionals that they are.
16:08
So it, it needs to be balanced. So do they let you?
16:12
Do they let you go? Tyler, do do you bond out?
16:15
How does this work with this type of situation?
16:19
Yeah. So just to follow up on your
16:21
point, one of the best, one of my favorite quotes from a
16:23
defense attorney was that guilty people need attorneys.
16:26
Innocent people definitely need attorneys.
16:29
And that just goes to show you then a lot of times people who
16:31
actually are innocent haven't had that prior involvement with
16:34
the criminal legal system and therefore aren't as well
16:37
equipped to deal with that type of interrogation tactics.
16:41
So that was just one thing I wanted to point out.
16:43
So then to answer your question, so I ended up after the
16:47
interrogation, I ended up getting arrested and charged
16:50
with two felony offenses. I got taken to the jail.
16:54
I spent, I don't recall the exact amount of time, it was a
16:57
few days in jail. I went to court, had my bail
17:00
set. At this point.
17:02
I remember meeting with the an attorney from the public
17:04
defender's office and just talking about the the case and
17:09
how I'm kind of getting my account of the what had
17:13
happened. So I eventually did get bail
17:16
set. So I was able to post that bail
17:20
and then get out and I was released while my case was
17:23
pending. So you did.
17:25
Were they offering plea bargains or were you always just
17:30
accepting that you're going to go to trial?
17:33
So I had talked to my attorney and we believe that there was a
17:37
pretty good chance that the case was going to go to trial just
17:39
based on the serious nature of the charges and my attorneys
17:43
conversations with the prosecutor.
17:45
They did make an offer to, I believe it was attempted second
17:49
degree assault with a sentencing range of 0 to 20 years, open
17:53
sentencing. So we would have a hearing
17:54
before the judge and the judge would impose the sentence.
17:57
I never thought for a second about accepting that offer.
18:01
I knew that would have made me a convicted felon.
18:04
I would have most likely had to serve some prison time because
18:07
the judge that we were in front of was known for being very
18:11
stringy with probation and very heavy-handed with sentences.
18:15
So it wasn't really something that we ever thought about
18:18
accepting. So from the pretty much the very
18:21
beginning, our mindset was we're going to go to trial.
18:24
We need to prepare for trial and have the present the strongest
18:27
case possible to the jury. So what happened?
18:32
So we ended up going to trial. The trial began on a Monday.
18:37
We had our jury selection. We had a very good jury
18:40
assembled. Then on the second day, well
18:44
then the latter part of the first day we heard from
18:47
witnesses. Then on the second day we got to
18:49
the final witness from the prosecution, the final witness
18:53
before they arrested their case in chief.
18:56
And then it ended up it was the the alleged victim, the
18:59
individual who I have shot was the one who is testifying.
19:03
And I remember he just got very upset while testifying, very
19:06
combative, started making incendiary remarks to kind of
19:11
inflamed the jury. And it was something that we had
19:15
to actually take a recess to discuss how to proceed.
19:18
And with the advice of my attorney, we agreed that we were
19:20
going to ask the court to declare a mistrial just because
19:23
of the how he had presented to the jury and stuff he would
19:27
think could have, you know, prejudice the jury.
19:30
So we ended up asking the judge, requesting that the judge
19:34
declare A mistrial. And the judge agreed with our
19:37
motion. They, the judge agreed that he
19:40
his conduct had been out of line and that the jury could have
19:42
possibly been prejudice. So we had a mistrial declared.
19:47
Wow, that's I didn't know that part of the the story.
19:51
So what was what happened next? So I.
19:54
Was very disappointed at the time.
19:56
I just wanted the case to be over with.
19:57
I my hope was we were going to go to trial and we were going to
20:00
get a not guilty verdict. So after the mistrial we had the
20:05
case reset for trial. It was going to be a few months.
20:09
A few more months before we could go back and have the trial
20:12
again. So I ended up just planning to,
20:16
you know, recharge those few months, do whatever I need to to
20:21
stay out of trouble, make sure that I'm assisting with my case,
20:24
however I can stay in communication with my attorney.
20:28
But then the following day, after we had gotten it reset for
20:31
a new trial, I get a call from my attorney saying that the
20:35
prosecution is wanting to offer a plea agreement.
20:39
And so I just hear a plea agreement.
20:41
I'm thinking, no, I'm not going to accept a plea agreement.
20:44
I want to have a trial what the jury decide.
20:47
And so then my attorney goes on to say, well, they're offering a
20:51
misdemeanor assault. They'll drop the firearms charge
20:54
and reduce the felony assault to a misdemeanor assault.
20:58
One year maximum jail time. We'll go before this judge and
21:02
she will sentence you, but there's a chance that we get
21:05
probation. So at that point I was a little
21:09
bit more inclined to take the the plea deal.
21:14
I still thought that we had a pretty good chance at trial,
21:16
especially based on how the jury had reacted to the trial.
21:21
So after the mistrial was declared, my attorney spent
21:23
several hours just calling the members of the jury to pull them
21:27
get their impressions on the case.
21:28
And their impressions were overwhelmingly favorable to my
21:33
side. So that had given me cautious
21:36
optimism for another trial. But then after I got that plea
21:40
offer, I talked to my mom, talked to some family members
21:45
and friends. And the one thing that I
21:48
consistently heard was take the plea deal.
21:51
Take the plea deal, be done with it.
21:53
You might have to serve your time.
21:54
You might have to do probation. Whatever happens, you'll be done
21:58
with it. You'll be free.
21:59
You won't be a convicted felon and you'll be able to move on
22:01
with your life. So reluctantly, I did agree to
22:04
take the plea deal. We were, of course, hoping for
22:07
probation, but I ended up having the sentencing hearing.
22:11
We had our character letters ready and I prepared a statement
22:14
for the court, a written statement and an oral statement
22:16
at the hearing, and we were asking for probation.
22:19
Unfortunately, the judge determined that based on the
22:22
seriousness of the offense then namely the fact that there was a
22:25
firearm involved that that warranted the maximum sentence,
22:29
which was a year in county jail. So I ended up getting census to
22:34
a year and in Nebraska, which is the state where this happened,
22:38
the way the good time credits work is you basically do 50% of
22:42
your time plus two weeks. So it worked out to about 6 1/2
22:46
months or so. So I ended up getting sentenced
22:50
after, immediately after the sentencing hearing, I was taken
22:52
into custody. So I went to the county jail,
22:55
got booked in, booked in process and then from there on out and I
22:59
I did my 6 1/2 months. Well, I want to take a break
23:03
there because I want to talk about how you handled that as a,
23:05
as a, you know, a teenager in a jail, which is for everybody
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24:25
For more information, go to prisonist.org.
24:28
That's prisonist.org. Start here.
24:31
So, Tyler, you, you, you deal with the fact that you, you've
24:36
done the plea bargain. You know that you've got a year
24:40
and it's going to probably be about 6 1/2 months.
24:43
You get booked into jail. What, how?
24:47
Because you did a little bit like 3 or 4 days, what is your
24:50
thought that you're going to be in there for months?
24:54
So it was surreal. I remember after the judge
24:58
pronounced the sentence, I was immediately taken into custody.
25:01
So I was handcuffed. I was walked down a long hallway
25:04
in the through the courthouse and then into they have like,
25:07
it's almost like a mini jail pot inside of the courthouse.
25:10
So I was put in a cell in handcuffs.
25:15
It's a dark cell. There's really almost no light.
25:19
The smell is just awful. So I'm in the cell.
25:23
It's a tiny little cell for what feels like an eternity.
25:26
Was probably several hours until they had gotten done with the
25:30
court docket for the day. And then during the this time, a
25:33
couple other people came into neighboring cells and cells
25:35
right next to mine. And then the afternoon came.
25:39
We all got LED out of our cells. We were still in handcuffs and
25:43
we were put in back in the back of the jail transport van.
25:47
So like you see in the movies, the little van with the cages,
25:52
there's like a cage on in the middle and then between the
25:55
driver and the back seat. So you've got you have to kind
25:57
of cram into these little like aisles where there's only like a
26:02
maybe a foot on each side. So it's a cramped, cramped ride.
26:06
The metal is super hot from the, the sun, the, so then the, and
26:14
then of course whenever you're driving, every little bump you
26:16
hit, you kind of, you know, fall all over the place, bounce all
26:20
over. So we ended up getting to the
26:22
jail. You go into this big garage and
26:26
then once in the garage, they let you out of the back of the
26:28
jail transport van. Then you go in through like
26:31
double doors, like 2 doors after another into the intake area.
26:36
And so once you get in there, they do the intake process, you
26:39
get you get a jail attire to change into a jail jumpsuit.
26:44
They fingerprints you, they take your mug shot, ask you for your
26:48
information, your date of birth, your any allergies or medical
26:52
concerns you have, any tattoos, any scars, assemble all of that.
26:57
And then you wait in the intake area until they are ready to
27:01
bring you back to the housing area.
27:03
So I waited there for a few hours, night came.
27:07
I was finally brought back to the housing area on the way
27:10
back, it's a long walk because you go all the way to like the
27:13
far end of the jail. And that's where the the
27:16
temporary pod is until you get classified and get your
27:20
permanent assignment. You're in that temporary pod.
27:24
So and then during that time, it was during COVID.
27:26
So you're on 23 hour lockdowns per day.
27:29
They call it 23. And once it was actually more
27:31
like 23 1/2 hours on lockdown and then 30 minutes to come out,
27:35
to use the phones, to use the vending machine and to shower.
27:40
Other than that, you're in a cell.
27:42
It's either A1 man or two man cell that you're locked in 23
27:47
1/2 hours a day. So I was in there for, I think
27:49
it was like the 1st 10 to 12 days of my time in jail was in
27:53
there. It was miserable.
27:55
I mean, when I tell you, you don't know what boredom is until
27:57
you've been in on 23. Wow.
28:01
This. Yeah, essentially solitary.
28:03
So just throughout this whole process before, I mean, I'm
28:07
still, I guess I was saying shocked because I just didn't
28:10
expect to. I mean, I knew it was a chance
28:12
that I, there was a chance I would have to go back to jail.
28:15
But you know, you always have in your mind the hope that, you
28:19
know, it worked out, right? You're going to get probation.
28:21
It's going to be a favorable outcome.
28:23
So I don't really remember having conscious thought of like
28:27
what my time in jail was going to be like more so it was just
28:30
like seemed like forever at that point.
28:33
I mean, you're doing 190 days in jail.
28:37
That really sucks, especially county jail, because like you
28:40
said, that's can't really establish a routine there.
28:42
The conditions are horrible. It's very transient in nature,
28:45
so people come and go. I think that's the biggest thing
28:49
is that you can't like when you go to prison, you're setting up
28:53
a life there. You know you're you're going to
28:55
be there. People are are also recognizing
28:59
that they're there and it's a primitive society, but you learn
29:02
to live in that society. The, the jail is like you said,
29:08
there's, it's, it's very transient.
29:09
You, you have somebody that could be there for a DWI.
29:12
You could have somebody that just killed his wife.
29:16
It can be very bloody and violent and it, it's just, it's
29:19
a different environment. How did you start working your
29:24
way into kind of feeling your way around that?
29:27
Because, you know, I was only in that I was brought back for a
29:34
civil trial while I was in prison.
29:36
And I was there for six or seven days.
29:38
And I couldn't believe the difference between the prison
29:40
and the jail. But I'm sure you probably
29:45
started creating a routine. But like, how did it?
29:47
How did that work for you, Tyler?
29:50
Yeah. So as you know, in in jails and
29:52
prisons, there's very there's a lot of unwritten rules.
29:56
Of course, you get a hand, that inmate handbook is what they
29:59
call it. And then you read over all the
30:01
rules and the policies and the disciplinary acts like
30:04
procedures. So you kind of know what the
30:06
written rules are. But then there's a whole other
30:08
set of unwritten rules that are, you know, very prevalent in
30:13
carceral facilities. So I was fortunate.
30:15
My first cellmate was super cool guy.
30:17
He had been been around the block, so he had served plenty
30:20
of many, many years in prison and was pretty familiar with
30:25
these unwritten rules. So he kind of took me under his
30:28
wing, taught me the kind of what you need to do, like how to act,
30:32
what to not do, what to do. So that was super helpful.
30:35
So when I did end up going into my permanent housing assignment,
30:39
I already kind of knew what to expect.
30:41
Now another thing that I think I was fortunate to have is so
30:48
well, let me back up. So a lot of times whenever
30:51
you're new to housing unit, especially after you've been
30:53
sentenced and you get some people who are who have been
30:56
there for a little bit of time, a few weeks, a couple months,
30:59
they kind of start running the pod naturally, because they're
31:02
the ones who have been there the longest.
31:03
So they have that seniority and they start to earn the respects
31:06
of the newer guys. So when you come in and you're a
31:08
new person, they sometimes will try to test you, You know,
31:12
they'll definitely you got to ask, they'll they're going to
31:15
ask you what charges you're there for and they're going to
31:17
ask for your paperwork. So if you and they generally, at
31:22
least the jail then I was at was pretty, they took it pretty
31:26
seriously to separate people who you know, have the the sex
31:29
offenses or the sensitive offenses from the gem pop.
31:34
So that wasn't too much of an issue, though there were
31:37
sometimes one issue I would see is if somebody was initially
31:40
arrested for a sex related offense, but they pleaded it
31:43
down to something else, it was non sex related, then those
31:47
people would sometimes have problems.
31:49
So all that to say, I was fortunate because my story had
31:52
been my situation. My case had been written about
31:56
in the newspaper a lot. So they get the newspaper each
31:58
day. And so they could see like one
32:01
of the common things would be like to see who was, what the
32:03
criminal cases were like who was getting sentenced because each
32:06
time somebody got sentenced, they would have like what the
32:09
charges were, how long the sentence was and who the
32:11
sentencing judge was. So you would kind of look,
32:14
especially if they had like a charge, it was had been reported
32:18
on heavily in the media. You would kind of look at that
32:20
to see like, oh, maybe we'll get so and so argument.
32:23
So when I came into the unit, unbeknownst to me at the time,
32:26
everybody was already familiar with me because my situation had
32:28
been in the newspaper. And they were surprised at the
32:31
plea deal because, you know, you go from facing 100 years in
32:34
prison to now getting sentenced to a year.
32:37
So I kind of had that respect already, which I think I was
32:40
fortunate to have because I didn't really have to show out
32:43
too much or put on a tough face to to, you know, when I first
32:48
started interacting with the people.
32:49
So I think that was something that I was fortunate about.
32:52
So when I came in, they were pretty.
32:54
Everybody was pretty. I want welcoming isn't the right
32:58
word, but I guess welcoming in a jail sense as in like they kind
33:03
of explained to you what the what the pods rules were.
33:08
They explained like introduced each other and just let me know
33:12
that they had kind of a routine. Like they would have a exercise
33:16
kind of informal exercise class each evening.
33:19
They would have time for cards and like TV time where you would
33:24
watch different channels at different times.
33:26
So they kind of introduced me to that routine.
33:29
So to answer your question, there was kind of that routine.
33:32
It wasn't as much as it would have been how I've been in
33:35
prison, but there was kind of like a mini routine that of
33:38
course depended on who was in the pod.
33:40
Some of those people got moved out or got released in the
33:43
routine we kind of change up. But it was definitely helpful to
33:47
have kind of just some sort of routine that you could rely on
33:50
to make the days go by faster. How did you, Tyler, start
33:54
helping people with their cases? How did that come about?
33:59
So great question. So we had these little tablets
34:03
in each of the pods so you could get the tablet and it had the
34:06
law library on it. So on the law library, it was
34:09
like an app. So you can see you could read
34:11
case law, statutes, all sorts of regulations, constitutions.
34:17
So I didn't really have anything else to do in jail and I wasn't,
34:21
I didn't really play too much car, too many card games because
34:24
that involved gambling and I didn't want to get involved in
34:27
that. And then at first I was kind of
34:31
not kind of, I was definitely very closed off, sort of
34:34
depressed when I was initially there.
34:36
Sure. So I spend my time studying the
34:39
law and just because I'd actually started with the
34:43
tablets back when I was in on the 23 and ones because that was
34:46
really the only thing you could do.
34:48
They didn't have access to any like other apps on the tablet.
34:51
It was just the law library and there were a couple others like
34:53
a Bible and it's like a calculator.
34:56
I mean, who's going to need a calculator when you're in jail,
34:58
you know? But so the the only app that
35:02
really got my interest was the law library app.
35:05
So I had already been familiar with it.
35:07
So when I got to my permanent location, I started just
35:11
spending my time on the tablet and people saw it and then would
35:14
ask me what I'm doing and I would say, oh, I'm just breeding
35:17
cases. I'm reading the cases that came
35:18
out today. I probably sounded like a giant
35:21
nerd, but there's worse things to be in in jail.
35:25
Sure. They had like a, a library that
35:28
you could check books out from. So I got a bunch of like law
35:31
books, like books about the rules of evidence and the rules
35:34
of criminal procedure and the Federal rules of criminal
35:36
procedure, all these different books.
35:38
So I would have them stacked up right next to my bunk and I
35:42
would be spend my days reading through those books, taking
35:44
notes, reading the case law. And so eventually people just
35:48
started coming up to me and after they knew what I was
35:50
doing, said, hey, I've got this issue, can you look into it for
35:54
me? And I would say sure, like I
35:56
would, I was happy to help them, you know, give me something to
35:58
do. And I always enjoyed helping
36:01
other people. So I would look into their cases
36:03
and eventually kind of became, I became kind of the go to person
36:07
for people with criminal like questions about their criminal
36:11
cases. Which isn't a bad thing by the
36:14
way, to have, there's a certain amount of respect in prison and
36:18
jails. If you can help somebody, you
36:20
know that that that that goes a long ways, especially if you're
36:24
able to help somebody with their case and and you really are able
36:26
to help them. Most definitely, yeah.
36:29
Because I know a lot of jailhouse lawyers, they will say
36:32
whatever the person wants to hear and take their, take their
36:35
money, take their commissary and kind of be done with it.
36:38
For me, I didn't charge at all. I wasn't something that I even
36:41
thought about charging. I mean, I would have people, you
36:42
know, say, hey, thanks for helping me out, take this.
36:45
And then just like as a gift. But I was never really wanted to
36:49
try to charge people. I mean, I enjoyed learning about
36:52
the law and helping people and I understood the problems with the
36:56
criminal legal system, the problems with access to legal
36:59
counsel, the difficulties communicating with their defense
37:01
attorneys. So I was happy to help in any
37:03
way I could. So eventually whenever I was, I
37:07
started helping some people and then it became sort of a almost
37:10
a full time job in jail. I would have people lined up one
37:12
after the other just waiting. And we had this little like desk
37:15
area that had previously been like where the CEO would sit to
37:18
monitor the unit. Then after the like, due to
37:22
staffing issues, understaffing, they stopped having a CEO
37:26
station there permanently. So they would just see, I would
37:29
come every 30 minutes and do their round to make sure that
37:32
everything was quote, UN quote. OK.
37:34
So I kind of set up at that desk and I would have people, you
37:37
know, just come up to me. We would they would pull off a
37:39
chair, we'd go over their paperwork.
37:41
I would pull up the lot like the statues that they were charged
37:44
under on the on the iPad and or on the tablet and then just walk
37:49
them through their cases and help them prepare for their
37:51
sentencing hearings, getting character letters, writing
37:53
allocutions. That's like the statements to
37:55
the to the court. And so it became a pretty help
38:00
pass the time. I helped a lot of people and I
38:02
really enjoyed it. And that was kind of my first
38:04
interaction with like first hand interaction with people involved
38:08
in the legal system. And I really enjoyed it.
38:12
People, a lot of people and I noticed in jail didn't really
38:15
have any sort of idea of their rights.
38:18
They didn't know the 1st Amendment, the second for 5th,
38:21
6th, 8th, all these 14th, the important amendments.
38:25
And so eventually they started asking me to teach classes,
38:29
teach legal, like know Your rights classes, which I really
38:32
enjoyed doing. So I would do those classes.
38:34
We would have the classes informally as a POD, where I
38:38
would go over different cases, like presidential cases, go over
38:42
important amendments, laws, clear up any misconceptions
38:46
about the legal system. And so that was kind of the
38:48
other aspect of the jailhouse lawyering.
38:52
So I really enjoy you. Really, I mean, and that really
38:54
had to have eaten up a lot of time.
38:57
You know, that that the way that you did your time, you were busy
39:00
and you were you were doing something was helping people,
39:03
but it was also educating you. You know, it's funny that
39:07
Shawshank Redemption, there's a scene in Shawshank Redemption
39:11
where he's helping them do their taxes and investments and
39:13
everything. He gets so busy with that he's
39:15
got Red helping him and they're going through all the paperwork
39:18
and everything. But I could just see you sitting
39:20
at that desk that the CEO is supposed to be out and you're
39:22
just having everybody in line helping out.
39:25
So Tyler, you get towards the end of this thing, what are you
39:29
thinking on getting released? Like what's, what's your thought
39:33
process of like I'm going to walk out of here.
39:37
So unfortunately it wasn't all smooth sailing through the
39:39
beginning. So I started as a jobs lawyer
39:41
and I did that throughout the time.
39:43
But about halfway through, we had as a pod, we had filed A
39:46
complaint against one of the CE OS because she was very, she was
39:50
very verbally abusive, just always like trying to start
39:54
confrontations would get right in people's faces and almost go
39:57
them into, you know, swinging on her.
39:59
So as a pod, we filed A complaint against her and I was
40:03
the, the main one behind, I was the one who drafted it and we
40:06
had other people who signed on to it then.
40:09
So after we submit that, a couple days after we submit that
40:12
complaint, I have some CEO's coming to the pub.
40:15
They tell me, pack my stuff, I'm moving to a different pod, no
40:18
explanation why. The crazy thing is I had just
40:20
had my disciplinary review earlier that day.
40:23
So the disciplinary review is where they go over any
40:26
infractions you've had, any issues that you've had that
40:30
could be concerning. And that affects your point
40:34
score. And your point score dictates
40:36
what level of security you are. So when I went in, I was medium
40:39
or excuse me, low security. After I got classified, I was
40:43
low security because I hadn't, I didn't have a record at that
40:45
time before then. I mean, so I had that
40:49
disciplinary review. My score had actually gone down
40:52
because I had been, I had not gotten in trouble at all while
40:54
incarcerated. So literally later that same
40:57
day, they come in, tell me to pack my stuff and they said my
41:00
behavior has been unacceptable. So they moved me to another pod
41:04
down the hallway. And it's a pod that is much
41:07
rougher. You have some very interesting
41:11
characters in there to put it nicely.
41:13
And it's not the, it's a lot more restrictive than the other
41:17
pods too, because I was initially, I had trustee status
41:21
so I could help out around the jail, mow the grass outside,
41:24
help clean the, the hallways and sleep up and move the move like
41:29
furniture from like the administrative office areas.
41:33
So that helped pass the time. And you got paid $30 a week for
41:36
that, which and jail was pretty good.
41:38
That was the highest paying job in the jail.
41:40
So I ended up getting moved to that other pod, lost my trusty
41:43
status, never got any sort of explanation other than my
41:46
behavior was unacceptable. So I mean, the only thing I can
41:49
think of is that it was due to my work as a jailhouse lawyer
41:52
and filing that complaint against the CEO.
41:54
But I eventually settled into the new pod and then while I was
41:59
in that pod, I made some friends, really hit it off of
42:02
some people and continued my jailhouse lawyering work.
42:07
Then unfortunately, while I was in that pod, we were, I ended up
42:11
having to after that spending some time with Solitaire because
42:14
they had left the door open. So the pod connects to the
42:18
little like outside area where you have like little recreation
42:22
areas, enclosed area. You have like concrete walls and
42:25
then like a cage at the very top.
42:27
So you can kind of see it out like the sunlight and get a
42:30
little bit of fresh air. But it's mostly just like a
42:31
concrete room with the like chain link fences, the ceiling.
42:36
So we head in, out. There to come after you're
42:38
outside there, Tyler, From outside your window, you're in
42:42
the sires. Yeah.
42:45
So yeah, you could definitely, yeah, you could hear like some
42:47
like birds and sirens and sometimes like loud vehicular
42:51
traffic. So it was kind of like the most
42:53
like, I guess normal place where you could actually experience
42:55
the world, but you never actually got to go outside and
42:58
outside like in the like freestanding, like it was all
43:01
never like that wasn't even a freestanding structure.
43:04
It was just connected to the pod.
43:05
So you would that was the most that you could go outside.
43:09
But there was one night where they had, it was after Darcy.
43:12
We're supposed to be inside because they would shut it down
43:14
after a certain time. And normally they would lock the
43:17
door. So it was like one of those big,
43:19
you know, metal jail doors that would lock in.
43:22
There is no getting outside after they locked in.
43:25
One night they had they had turned the lights off out there,
43:28
but they had kept it. They had not locked in.
43:32
So me and a couple of my friends, we went outside there
43:35
and we were kind of just like play fighting, you know, it was
43:37
just like shadow boxing basically is what they called
43:40
it. So they ended up seeing the on
43:43
the cameras there. I guess the CEOs saw a shadow
43:46
boxing. And then next thing we know, a
43:49
bunch of CEOs come running into the pod.
43:51
There's about probably half dozen of them.
43:55
They handcuff us, take us up to solitary and claimed that we
43:59
were fighting each other and they tried to get the police
44:03
involved and have the police come and they were asking like,
44:06
will you agree to cooperate with the police and press charges on
44:09
each other. We saw and we were all separated
44:11
at this time. We came like we're in the same
44:15
pop later on. But when we were talking, we
44:18
were like, all have the same story that they were trying to
44:20
get us to press charges against each other.
44:22
But we all said multiple times we were adamant that we were
44:25
just like play fighting was shadow boxing on the video.
44:29
Like I'm sure they could see it. You know, that's what we were
44:31
telling the, you know, so Long story short, we spent some time
44:35
in solitary. Finally the Sergeant comes and
44:39
he talks to us and he's he says that he's reviewed the video and
44:42
he can see that we weren't like actually fighting.
44:44
It was just play fighting, you know, shadow boxing.
44:47
And then he ended up saying that because we caused the scene
44:49
though, and they had to spend that time to come get us out of
44:53
there, that we had to spend some time in solitary.
44:56
So we spent about a week in solitary for that.
44:58
Then after that, we got moved to a medium security unit.
45:02
So we were in the low security, the minimum security, but then
45:04
we get moved to the medium security.
45:06
So you're in there with all kinds of people, with people
45:08
with child abuse charges, sexual assault charges, armed robbery.
45:14
On the. Exactly.
45:17
So yeah, you get an interesting, very, very interesting
45:19
characters. There's interesting characters
45:21
everywhere in jail, but especially in that medium
45:23
security pod. And actually, I forgot.
45:26
No, that was actually high security because the first one
45:29
we were in while we were just waiting to get classified, that
45:32
was medium security. This one was high security.
45:35
So yeah, we were in high security and then we were in
45:37
there for probably 2, two to three weeks, maybe 4 weeks.
45:43
We stayed out of trouble. Then we were able to work our
45:45
way back downstairs to minimum security, but we were still at
45:49
separate at that point. They put us in different minimum
45:52
security pods. So then Fast forward to that
45:56
part, I'm coming up on my release.
45:58
I was once I got back into that minimum security pod, I was made
46:02
some more friends. Some of the people who I had
46:03
known before were already were still there.
46:06
So I was able to make some friends, continue my jailhouse
46:08
lawyer and work since I was not going to be displayed by the by
46:13
the retaliation, I had received a lot more than that to prevent
46:17
me from doing that. So I was able to kind of settle
46:20
back into a routine. And then as the release date
46:24
approaches, once you get to the end and you can probably
46:27
confirm, but once you get to the end of your sentence, time drags
46:31
by I mean it's every day. Is your watches.
46:34
Yes, it feels like, you know, a week is like the day will go by
46:39
and that feels like it's been a week and you look up, it's only
46:41
been five hours. So it drags on and on and on.
46:45
And then something that I was kind of surprised about was
46:48
towards the end of the time in jail, I've started getting
46:52
pretty nervous, like about release, about reintegrating.
46:54
And although exactly. That was, yeah, something that I
46:59
knew people who had come from prison were experiencing.
47:01
But even with me having spent about six, 6 1/2 months
47:05
incarcerated, it was something I started feeling too, I just
47:08
having to readjust the outside, reconnect with the people who
47:11
you've been away from and go back to your job, get all your
47:15
affairs in order. So I did get kind of kind of
47:18
nervous about that, but I've talked to some of the OG's, as
47:22
we call them, people who had been around the block a time or
47:24
two. I just about what to expect and
47:26
I was pretty, pretty excited. A little bit nervous still, but
47:28
I was pretty excited about getting out and getting on with
47:31
my life. And I was confident that that
47:33
experience wasn't something that I ever wanted to return to.
47:36
So I was going to do everything in my power to lead a law
47:40
abiding life, stay away from negative influences and stay on
47:45
the straight and narrow. So eventually I was released.
47:47
My mom had come and gotten me. I got out, we went to a pizza
47:51
place. They had a local pizza place.
47:53
It was a chain place, but common in the Midwest.
47:56
Casey's you might be familiar with.
47:59
So they we got some pizza from Casey's and I remember something
48:03
that was surprising. I was looking forward to that
48:05
for months. I started eating it and it just,
48:09
I felt sick. I couldn't hardly eat it.
48:12
And that was the case for a couple weeks.
48:14
I couldn't eat normal food. So in in jail you're on A at
48:18
least in the jail I was at, you're on a soy based diet.
48:21
So all the food, it's a bunch of carbs and really stuff that
48:24
you're not even really sure what it is.
48:28
I hear the prison food is bad. I think the jail food from what
48:31
I have heard is. Even worse, yeah.
48:35
The general consensus? So just getting out like eating
48:38
normal food literally made me physically I'll.
48:42
So it did take a little while to readjust, but eventually I was
48:45
able to readjust and start enjoying normal food again and
48:48
kind of reintegrate into society and move on with my life.
48:53
Wow. So how soon was it, Tyler, that
48:58
when you got out that you decided that you were going to
49:02
go in, I mean, went to the University of Memphis?
49:06
Was that just an immediate thing that you jumped into and he knew
49:09
that you wanted to get into law because you had read so much and
49:12
done so much while you were in is?
49:13
Is it? Was that what your thinking was
49:16
at that time? Yeah, so great question.
49:18
So actually when I had been arrested initially, I had been
49:22
in college at that time. It was during COVID so all of my
49:25
class. Were OK, So you were at home on
49:27
online OK. Actually, I was in Nebraska so I
49:30
had, I'm from Chattanooga, TN. I was in Nebraska at the time
49:33
because I moved out there for a job opportunity.
49:36
So I was out there. I've been out there only about
49:38
two months when the incident happened.
49:41
So then I ended up getting getting arrested, going to jail.
49:45
Fortunately it was during our Thanksgiving break.
49:47
So I didn't, I missed a little bit of class, but I was able to
49:50
recover pretty quickly. Since we did not, we was kind of
49:53
exam prep time. So I was didn't really miss too
49:56
much of class. So I was able to jump in and
49:59
continue pretty quickly. OK.
50:01
Then while my case was pending, I actually went to work for,
50:04
well, first intern for a criminal defense attorney in
50:07
Chattanooga. At that point I had had no prior
50:09
knowledge of the legal system, didn't know what to expect, and
50:12
I wanted to have that knowledge of what to expect so that I
50:15
could help with my own case and would be a little bit less
50:17
nervous to know what to. Make sense?
50:19
So I actually started interning with her.
50:21
It was through the, through the school, the University of
50:24
Memphis through like academic, they have like an externship
50:28
course, so you could get course credit for the internship.
50:30
So I started interning with this criminal defense attorney.
50:33
Really, really enjoyed it, really enjoyed the legal work
50:36
and the client interaction. And actually when the internship
50:39
ended, she offered me to stay on as her paralegal slash
50:44
investigator. It was a solo, solo firm.
50:47
She was the only attorney there, and then she had one other legal
50:51
assistance. So working in a small firm like
50:53
that, I got to do a little bit of everything.
50:54
I was the receptionist, the legal assistant, the.
50:56
Paralegal Education. Exactly.
50:59
She did juvenile court, state court and federal work, all
51:03
kinds of ranging from, you know, simple possession of marijuana
51:06
to homicides and white collar Ponzi schemes that, you know,
51:13
involve millions of dollars. So I kind of got all kinds of
51:16
different exposure, which was super helpful.
51:19
So and she knew about my experience, my arrest and
51:22
involvement of the legal system. It was something I was upfront
51:24
about. And she, I think one of the
51:27
reasons why she hired me is because she really valued that
51:30
experience. It was something that was really
51:32
helpful with clients because you know they you've.
51:35
Been on the other side, yeah. Exactly.
51:37
They know that you've been through it and they're more
51:39
likely to trust you. So we had that trust developed.
51:43
So I was able to work with her for that couple years.
51:46
Then I ended up, and during this time I was thinking about maybe
51:49
going into the legal field, but I didn't know if it was really
51:53
something for me. All the attorneys I knew were
51:55
super smart, super well accomplished.
51:57
It seemed like something that I couldn't really, you know, I
52:00
couldn't really compare like, so I didn't know if that was really
52:03
for me. I ended up taking the law school
52:05
admissions test during the summer while I was working with
52:08
her and just as something that maybe I would want to go to law
52:11
school one day. Your scores are good for five
52:13
years. So maybe it's something I would
52:15
go back to later on, but I ended up going to jail.
52:20
Well, actually let me back up. So the week then I graduated,
52:24
excuse me, the week I got sentenced, I also graduated.
52:27
So I graduated from college few days later.
52:29
I ended up getting sentenced. So the timing worked out nicely.
52:32
We were able to put the sentencing hearing out long
52:35
enough to allow me to graduate, but then we had the sentencing
52:38
hearing. I got sentenced.
52:39
I got out in November and at that point, based on my
52:43
experience in jail and kind of I spent a lot of time, you know,
52:47
reading about influential attorneys and civil rights
52:50
activists and social justice advocates during this time.
52:53
So when I got out and it was kind of that kind of gave me the
52:56
inspiration to pursue a career in the legal field.
52:59
So I got out on November 13th. On November 14th, I submitted my
53:05
application to law school, kind of spent stayed up all night
53:08
getting my application materials ready, filling out the
53:10
application, writing my personal statement, which was about my
53:13
experience in the legal system being incarcerated.
53:16
So I ended up applying to the University of Memphis the
53:19
following day. And then following month I
53:22
received my acceptance letter and to the University of Memphis
53:25
School of Law. Then the month after that I
53:27
received my scholarship offer, which is for full tuition.
53:30
So I was shocked. I mean, I was shocked.
53:32
You. Can get into it.
53:33
I'm curious because did, did you get any blowback from having a A
53:39
record or was it, I mean, did you have to fill that out on, on
53:43
the application form, explain it and all those different things
53:46
that would go with that? Absolutely.
53:48
So you have to disclose pretty much everything.
53:50
And I knew that that would be a possibly a hindrance or at least
53:53
a barrier to overcome. So I applied widely to a lot of
53:56
law schools, got rejected from a lot of law schools.
53:59
They don't give you the reason why, but from a lot of the law
54:02
schools, I always, I mean, my application like my hard skills,
54:06
my qualifications were very good there, right?
54:11
Yeah. They have to release all the,
54:12
you know, the GPA scores, the OR the GPA ranges, the LSAT scores.
54:17
So you can kind of see and compare.
54:19
And when you're above the 75th percentile on both of those
54:21
metrics and then you and you don't have anything, you have
54:25
like the work experience and other solid qualifications, but
54:29
then you're getting rejected. It kind of the reasonable
54:32
inferences, then it's because of the criminal record, which I
54:35
understand. It was something that I wasn't
54:37
surprised about. I knew that it was going to be
54:38
an uphill battle. So I applied widely to all
54:41
different kinds of law schools and then got into a couple other
54:45
ones. So Memphis was when I ended up
54:46
choosing. I also got into CUNY City,
54:49
University of New York in New York City that when I didn't get
54:53
a scholarship offer from. And then I also got into Georgia
54:56
State in Atlanta. I didn't get a scholarship offer
54:58
from there. I got into University of
55:00
Cincinnati. I got a 50% scholarship there
55:03
and then the full tuition scholarship from Memphis, which
55:06
kind of sold me on Memphis and I mean I had gone there undergrad.
55:14
Yeah. So, yeah, that was like, I knew
55:17
then I financially I wasn't going to be able to shell out a
55:19
lot of money for losses even with and everything.
55:22
So Memphis just seemed like the great options, though I ended up
55:25
committing there and that's where I'm at now.
55:27
Well, I'm curious Tyler, because you're in your first year there,
55:31
does it come up? Does it does your with your
55:34
schoolmates, law school students, does does your
55:37
situation come up? I mean because you're sitting in
55:40
classes sometimes where you've experienced what the class is
55:43
talking about. Absolutely.
55:45
So law students are nosy people. They'll, you know, there's stuff
55:49
out there, they'll find it. So I went in with the mindset of
55:52
being completely open about it, not just because of that, but
55:54
because I believe that Linds experience is a unique accident
55:58
every field, but especially the legal field.
56:01
So I'll open about it from the very beginning during
56:03
orientation when we were introducing ourselves, we were
56:07
we would explain why we wanted to go to law school.
56:10
And so I flat out said I'm formally incarcerated.
56:13
My experience in jail opened my eyes to the problems with the
56:16
criminal legal system. And I'm here to, you know,
56:18
hopefully advocate to face some of those issues.
56:21
And what I noticed is people were overwhelmingly receptive to
56:26
my background, at least to my face.
56:28
I mean, I've talked to a lot of people about here's.
56:30
Here's one thing I think Tyler, is that what you just said there
56:34
is, is something that I so wholeheartedly believe is that
56:38
if you, the way that you did it, you explained why you were
56:41
there. You explained why your, your
56:43
experience created the passion that you have for law.
56:46
That also means that you own the story.
56:49
At that point. They don't own it.
56:50
They can't say, Hey, I, I heard about, you know, you've
56:52
actually, you've presented it, you've told why it happened, why
56:57
you've, why you have chosen the path that you've chosen, but now
57:00
you own the story. Nobody can bring it up against
57:03
you. This, hey, you were hiding this
57:04
or you were doing that or that. No, you stood out in front of
57:07
it. I think that there's some when
57:10
you take ownership of it and you own the story there, there's a
57:14
freedom that comes with that. That is different than trying to
57:19
think why I walk into this room. Does anybody know about my
57:21
situation? Totally different and I think it
57:24
allows you to expand on opportunities better.
57:28
Most definitely. And that's a great point too.
57:30
And I should have mentioned that like my whole mindset, even
57:32
outside of the legal field, just in general, like other unrelated
57:36
employment opportunities and for housing, like whenever I'm I'm
57:40
applying for an apartment, I'm always, you know, very
57:44
transparent about my record. I explained what I've learned
57:47
from it. And I don't, I'm remorseful for
57:49
my actions, but I don't regret going through that experience
57:52
because I think it's made me a better person.
57:54
And eventually when I become an attorney, I'll be a better
57:56
attorney because of it. So I've always been super open
57:59
about it. And I've also been very
58:02
pleasantly surprised about people who, you know, people who
58:05
you would not think have been involved with the legal system
58:07
or have had any legal trouble will open up to you
58:10
confidentially and say like, oh, yeah, I was involved in this
58:14
back when I was a teenager. Oh, yeah, my brother is
58:17
incarcerated. Like people you would not even
58:19
think like, I'm talking lawyers, judges, all kinds of people.
58:23
So that has really been a unique experience.
58:26
Do. Do you think that Gen.
58:28
Z, your generation has any different type of way that or
58:34
opinions of how they look at the criminal legal system?
58:38
Most definitely. So my generation grew up in the
58:40
time of the murders of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown and
58:45
Brianna Taylor and George Floyd. So those kind of there was
58:48
really an emphasis on policing and police accountability during
58:52
the, you know, the mid to late 2010's and the continuing now
58:56
into the 2020. So that already kind of shifted
58:59
people's perspective on policing and, and that aspect of the
59:03
criminal legal system. And then you get the, there's
59:05
been, you know, shows that have come out, podcasts, looks, and
59:09
especially on social media, people talking about the
59:11
problems with the criminal legal system, the inherent racism and
59:15
classism and the power that prosecutors have and how the the
59:21
laws and are stacked against defendants.
59:25
So I think that there is definitely a different
59:28
perception of the criminal legal system from the perspective of
59:31
Gen. Z compared to older generations.
59:34
So that is something that I've noticed too.
59:36
Even just people like kind of going off my previous point
59:40
about people who you wouldn't expect have involvement in the
59:44
in the legal system, even people who you would not expect to
59:47
necessarily have opinions of the legal system, certainly not
59:52
negative opinions of the legal system.
59:53
When you start opening up with them and sharing your personal
59:56
experience, then they're surprisingly receptive to it.
59:58
Even people who come from. You know, typical like law and
1:00:01
order, police backgrounds, prosecution backgrounds, they're
1:00:06
pretty receptive to what you're saying and kind of understand
1:00:09
the the issues that you're bringing up.
1:00:11
So I've been very pleasantly surprised by that as well.
1:00:14
Yeah, that's interesting. That's interesting.
1:00:18
So what I guess what are you thinking that you mean you got
1:00:22
two more years of law school is a criminal defense law, you're
1:00:25
going to go focus and and that's going to be your passion to go
1:00:29
going forward, I would assume. So definitely I plan to start
1:00:33
with criminal defense, do that for at least a few years.
1:00:36
I would like to do public defense, get a lot of good trial
1:00:40
experience, represent people who really could use adequate legal
1:00:43
representation. And then I might do that long
1:00:46
term, or I might transition into impact litigation, but also
1:00:50
something like the ACLU, MacArthur Justice Center,
1:00:52
Southern Poverty Law, those nonprofits that handle civil
1:00:56
rights case and systemic issues in the criminal legal system.
1:00:59
I'm curious about the board that you sit on.
1:01:02
That's the Formerly Incarcerated College Graduates Network.
1:01:06
I'm assuming that those are people that have gone to
1:01:08
college, that were formerly incarcerated and they is it a
1:01:13
national organization, a local organization and what, what does
1:01:17
it, is it shared experiences that people are together or do
1:01:21
they they have something that they're trying to do statutorily
1:01:26
change laws? What what what's the what goes
1:01:28
on there? So FICGN for short, is a
1:01:33
national network of people for who are formerly incarcerated or
1:01:36
otherwise system impacted who are or have pursued higher
1:01:41
education. So we've got several, at least a
1:01:45
few thousand members nationwide and actually in other countries
1:01:48
as well. So our memberships include
1:01:50
college professors, attorneys, executive directors, elected
1:01:54
officials, people of various blocks of life, various
1:01:57
backgrounds. And so our mission is to promote
1:02:00
the education empowerment of formerly incarcerated
1:02:03
individuals. So that's our mission statement.
1:02:05
To. Expand educational and
1:02:08
employment opportunities for people with criminal records.
1:02:11
We do this through various programs, very various
1:02:14
educational programs, career prep programs.
1:02:16
We offer scholarships for people pursuing certain programs, and
1:02:21
we do some policy work with legislation to like in terms of
1:02:26
ban the box, I'm restricting the use of a person's criminal
1:02:30
record in education and housing and employment opportunities and
1:02:34
just other legislative stuff. Cleans slate law so that people
1:02:38
can get their records cleaned after they've served their time
1:02:40
and have shown that they're rehabilitated.
1:02:43
So our mission basically boils down to just helping formerly
1:02:48
incarcerated people pursue opportunities in life.
1:02:51
I like that. I like that.
1:02:53
I mean, and it's important, you know, banning together you have
1:02:57
a stronger, impactful voice that can get more done.
1:03:00
So I, I had not heard of it, but I'm really glad it's there.
1:03:06
I, I wondering, you know, this whole thing that's happened with
1:03:12
you, it's such a, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's a
1:03:14
moment and it's a time you took care of things.
1:03:16
You've, you've moved forward. You're doing good things now.
1:03:20
What do you think's your biggest take away through all this you
1:03:23
experienced? I would say the biggest take
1:03:26
away is probably that just to remain resilience, people are
1:03:31
going to encounter obstacles. There's going to be hardships,
1:03:35
but I think it's really important to keep your head
1:03:37
down, keep your chest up and keep pushing forward.
1:03:42
I used to be very, very negative and you know, kind of AI guess
1:03:51
have a lot of self pity for difficult situations, even
1:03:55
though I tried not to. It's kind of, I think it's
1:03:56
natural to kind of fall into fall into that trap.
1:03:59
And I found myself doing that for when I was a teenager.
1:04:04
But then after this experience, I've seen kind of how it opened
1:04:07
doors that I didn't think possible.
1:04:09
And a lot of the opportunities I've had since then have
1:04:12
occurred not in spite of my experience, but because of.
1:04:15
It because of it. Exactly.
1:04:16
It's given me that unique perspective.
1:04:18
It's put me on the completely different career path and life
1:04:22
path. And so when all the stars align
1:04:25
like that and you find your calling in life, I think that's
1:04:27
really, really passionate. And there's no amount of, you
1:04:31
know, money or other resources that can really replace that
1:04:36
kind of internal fulfillment. Yeah, I love it.
1:04:39
And I, you know, you're an inspiring young guy and I can't
1:04:42
wait to see what all you do, Tyler, because you don't seem to
1:04:46
be afraid to go ahead and step into something that maybe you
1:04:49
don't even know. But you're going to get this
1:04:51
answers and get get a solution and keep stepping with it.
1:04:54
And that's that's how you get to where you want to go.
1:04:56
And I I've, I applaud that. Speaking of gratitude, the the I
1:05:03
want to give a shout out to Homestead Financial home
1:05:05
mortgage. They let me use all the fancy
1:05:07
cameras and lights here. And if you've got home mortgage,
1:05:11
the Greg FTF is your guy. He knows everything about the
1:05:14
mortgage business. And if you if you want to know
1:05:18
more about what I'm doing, go to brentcassidy.com.
1:05:21
I spell it wrong, spell it with ATY, not a DY.
1:05:25
And as I always used to say, Oh, and by the way, check out get my
1:05:29
book. Get my book.
1:05:30
I'm our success. I'm our success.
1:05:32
It's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, check it out.
1:05:36
It's my story. And as I used to say when I was
1:05:41
writing my emails back and forth from Leavenworth, stay strong.
1:05:44
I'll do the same. Tyler Foster, thanks so much for
1:05:47
being here today. I think you you gave some
1:05:49
Nuggets of wisdom away as a young man and I appreciate that.
1:05:53
Well, I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
1:05:56
Nightmare success in and out.