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'Kinky Boots' Story and Characters | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

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Welcome to the factory floor, where the heels are high,
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the stakes are higher, and the fiercest runway is the Northampton Shoe Factory.
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On today's episode of the BSB Podcast,
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we're stepping into the world of Kinky Boots,
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the Tony Award-winning musical about friendship,
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identity, and finding the courage to stand tall in your own stilettos.
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Spoiler warning, if you haven't visited Price and Son's Shoe Factory yet
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and wish to remain unspoiled, pause this video and return once you have secured
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the latest stylish boots. RJ,
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thank you so much again for being here,
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obviously.
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And ~ I'm going to jump right in and just say that,
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did you know that this was based on a true story?
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I had no idea until I was doing research.
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I mean, I did because I think I read it in the program,
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but I was surprised.
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Everybody, RJ does his research while he's at the show.
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He's that dedicated to getting his information right for reviews,
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for interviews, for everything.
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I didn't read the program apparently,
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because I had no idea until I was typing up this face sheet that it's actually based
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off of a real man, Steve Patton,
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who was struggling with his family-run shoe business and decided
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to make boots for drag queens.
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And I don't know why this blew my mind.
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I was so shocked about this,
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~ but also here you are being not shocked about this.
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even though that this is a real story that you knew about when you read the program,
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did you know about Kinky Boots prior to going to the show at the Fisher Theater?
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I mean, I've heard the title plenty of times.
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I have not seen the show or really done much
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listening. think I, in preparation for the show,
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I listened to the one time through because I knew that accents were
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involved. And so I just try,
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was trying to get like a baseline for just preparing myself.
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and
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I had sung a song from the show previously as well.
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So a little bit, nothing, like I didn't know the plot or anything like that.
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The thing that I have to say about shows that I always,
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like, I know we're going to come to a show that you haven't sung a song from before,
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but the amount of shows that we see,
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you're like, I knew one song in there that I didn't realize I knew,
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or like I knew three songs from the show.
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It's honestly impressive how many songs you know without knowing
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the musical that they're from.
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Yeah. mean, anyone who's been,
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anyone who's a theater fan who took voice lessons as a child or,
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and, or all the way through college.
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mean, there's lots of musicals,
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but there are just some,
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there's usually like a song or two that the musical is known for.
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And those tend to be the songs that people perform.
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Sure, that makes sense. mean, because obviously there's usually
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one show stopping song in a musical that people really like to see or sing,
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not see. Maybe they like to see it too,
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you you never know. But like I think of like songs like World Burn
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or I'd Rather Be Me from Mean Girls.
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We're like, a lot of people probably haven't seen the musical itself,
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but like those songs specifically,
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they know because either they A,
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blew up on social media, B, they're just iconic.
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songs ~ or dead mom that's another good one of like shows like again
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you haven't you're not super familiar with but there are songs in that they have
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just they have transcended what the musical is to be more in
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pop culture than anything else
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Yes, it's like the TikTok moments of each musical.
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For sure. ~ So about this show specifically,
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~ we follow Charlie Perch. Nope,
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We follow Charlie Price, who is from Northampton.
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And his really, his story is kind of that he was looking to escape.
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He's looking to kind of run away from his family and somehow get sucked back into
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his family because his dad passes away and he feels like he is obligated
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to save this dying business.
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What's interesting about this is as we're watching this show...
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I am not saying that I like Charlie.
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We're going start right there.
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But I do think that this is a storyline that a lot of people probably relate to,
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like this idea of like escaping,
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escaping the gravitational pull of your family and like trying to
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get away from the world that they consist of.
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And a lot of times they're getting pulled back in because of trauma,
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because of
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the bonds that we have because we feel guilty.
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And that's truly like like the universal story that happens kind
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of with Charlie Price here. Would you agree?
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Yes, especially I want to say for like
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our generation and even a little bit of the generation.
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I mean, I guess probably arguably every generation.
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millennials seem to really have a.
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I don't know, a strong inclination towards familial bonds
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~ one way or the other. Like either they're like clinging onto your life
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or breaking them. But I think it's
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And he kinda does both.
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the generation that, where that became an option.
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Like before that, I feel like everybody just felt obligated all of the time.
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where I would agree with that.
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I feel like there's a piece of this where a lot of times our generation and below,
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either they rebel, they push against,
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they try to grow past their family.
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And then there comes a point where a lot of them end up returning in
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a way because for whatever reason,
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you know? ~ But a lot of the times it is an obligation.
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It's like this obligation of like,
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I have to be there for family.
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I have to be able to take care of my family.
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But also with this one kind of deals with legacy too.
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not wanting the legacy of his father to go to waste,
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not wanting to let these people down.
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The legacy of his father was kind of to keep these people afloat,
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which he finds out very early on.
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His dad was selling shoes discount,
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but making all these orders to try to keep people afloat.
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And so he kind of falls into this trap of like,
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pulled between the light that he wants to have and the pull between
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the light that he feels like he has to have.
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Yeah, and that identity of...
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is this actually true? Like, which one am I?
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Like, I'm not even sure. ~ And obviously,
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generational, I mean, what did they say,
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four generations? ~
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Yes.
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That's like, that's pretty heavy,
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right? Like, even as someone who,
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I mean, my family doesn't go back that far in regards to generational anything,
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but.
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I can't imagine the weight of that.
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and the guilt that comes with,
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what if I don't go down this pathway?
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And what if I do?
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For sure. mean, the only thing my family goes back that far
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on is generational trauma. you know,
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that does kind of, sorry,
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what a good bit. ~ But truthfully,
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he does have that pull of being like,
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what is the legacy I'm leaving behind?
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And what's interesting is that if we backtrack a little bit,
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when we meet Charlie at the very beginning,
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~ he's going off to London with his fiance.
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I think they're engaged. can't remember if they get engaged sometime in the show,
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but they're engaged.
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or together, the plan is to stay together forever.
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And she wants the life of London.
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And he almost seems reluctant to that because it actually feels like maybe
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at the very beginning, he's not quite sure what he wants.
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And maybe that's where this identity component comes from for him is that like
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he doesn't know what he wants.
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He finds what he wants through saving this factory.
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That's interesting at the at the very beginning,
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because some would argue that,
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OK, he's getting free. He's like going to London.
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He's kind of living his life.
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And I saw it very much as like,
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wasn't his life he was looking for,
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it was his partner wanted that,
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Nicola wanted that, she wanted that big life,
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and he was just willing to go along with it because he was such a follower.
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Yeah, think I actually, I didn't draw the parallels until you said that.
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I similarly.
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when I was... ~
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graduating high school. I had picked the school for college that I was going
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to go to, but I think subconsciously maybe was making that decision based
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on rather than going towards something,
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I was looking to escape my current situation,
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even though I didn't know what I wanted.
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And so I think it might
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be similar where you don't know if it's the thing that you want.
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but it's not the thing that you don't want.
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So you just go in with it till it doesn't work anymore.
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It's so interesting, I was just talking with somebody else and we were talking about
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relationships. like this kind of works in this,
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so bear with me as I connect the dots here.
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We were talking about relationships and they were talking about like,
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how do you know, like if you want something and I said,
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well, look at the opposite. Are you running away from something or
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are you running towards something?
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And like in this instance,
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It feels like Charlie was truly trying to run away from the piece of
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his family that ultimately he came back and actually I think appreciated more when
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he kind of got to invent it on his own.
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He got to reinvent the wheel in a way for his family.
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And in a way he actually loved what felt like a burden at first.
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Yeah, it was like finding a piece of the identity that inherently
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you know, but maybe, and I think we've all been there,
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where like a parent or maybe someone of authority to us tells
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us to like this thing or tells us to do this thing,
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but just out of the sheer fact that they're telling us that we don't want
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it or we don't think we do. And,
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but once that
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of middleman is gone, you realize,
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no, wait, like I actually, I do like this.
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~ I was just being
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a rebellious shithead for a moment.
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And in the respect to Charlie,
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like, he probably wouldn't have reached that conclusion if it wasn't for Lola,
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who is really the, like, the part of this story where A,
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it gets interesting and B, that it actually has a little bit of life.
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Or do you, do you think that maybe he would have reached that conclusion eventually
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without the introduction of Lola?
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I'm not sure, mean, Lolo was definitely the push to get him there.
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I'm not sure without a push. I mean,
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they were just so clearly unaware and unknowing to what he truly wanted.
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I'm not sure he would have landed anywhere or if he would have just continued
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on with the fiance in London. And especially given the fact that,
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as we'll later discuss, like she is basically telling
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him to put the place up for sale,
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bulldoze it, turn it into apartments.
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If
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he hadn't already committed to the people and to kinky boots,
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I think the other part of him would have said yes because it's kind
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of like hitting the easy button,
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which if you don't know what you're doing or what you want,
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that can seem very appealing.
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Yeah, I think that you are correct where he,
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the easy out would have been literally selling the factory and just going back
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to his life in London and living like coasting.
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know, he had like a good job there.
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He had a comfortable life there.
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But what I love about Lola is that when Lola comes in,
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your listeners, Lola is a drag queen.
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I think that's important to understand.
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Like that is the pinnacle of the story.
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Lola is a drag queen who, Charlie has this amazing idea.
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The shoes that the company is building,
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which are just like the most boring men's shoes you could possibly imagine.
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And they do make the criteria that it is men's shoes so often that like it's
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important to note that I think that ~ Charlie decides that
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let's pivot and make boots for drag queens,
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boots that are going to be or heels that are going to be able to support
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the weight of a cis man, which
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We're going talk about that a little bit in the language part of this story,
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because I think that's important,
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because some of this does come back to this.
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But Lola's, I think, the one that really gives Charlie back his life.
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And I think that's what I of took away from this.
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Without Lola, Charlie would be like a shell of a person.
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He would be doing the steps. He would be living the life.
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He could even possibly be content.
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But past being content, he would be hollow.
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You know?
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Yeah, there was no passion when we meet him and really until probably
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a good quarter of the way into him meeting Lola.
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~
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There's nothing that...
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he cares about or finds necessity for,
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really.
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but I do think what's interesting about the story when you really kind of look
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at it is that I guess, okay. So this is the thing.
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It felt like the story as it's going on,
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Lola comes in really is kind of giving Charlie's life back.
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And what should have been the conflict in my head at that point then is the,
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girlfriend who wants you to sell the factory,
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who has plans for the factory to be sold.
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And what ends up happening is that the conflict is that Charlie's
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an absolute shit of a person and is horrible to Lola.
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And so part of me was just like the answer was right there.
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Like the conflict, the thing that was going to give us the drama of
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the story was the, you have your life in London and you have your life
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in Northampton. And Lola is making you realize that you don't hate your life
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in Northampton. And in fact, maybe you hate your life in London.
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And Lola's literally being like,
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this is the life you're looking for.
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And so I think that's interesting when we look at like,
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okay, Lola gave his life back.
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The conflict should have then been with the girlfriend.
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And I think that's where I struggled with the story a little bit too,
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is that the conflict felt like the pivot point felt at the wrong place.
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Yes, and I wish that I could say that I was shocked because I
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had high hopes honestly up until that point and it does come as a shock because that
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is it is exactly you do anticipate like you think that the girlfriend
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or the fiance is going to be
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that's going to be the problem.
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And then Act 2 starts and you're like,
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wait, what do you mean? ~
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But for whatever reason, even in the early 2000s,
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I mean, I know that this is based on earlier than that.
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So I guess I can't say that fairly,
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but.
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we're still making the queer person like part of the problem.
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Yes. Yes.
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Even though
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you're spouting throughout the rest of the entire show.
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to embrace change and individuality and yourself.
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Yes, and this is one of the things that I struggled with a lot.
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this is, I really, and granted we'll give our verdicts in part two.
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I really wanted to like the show.
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And I felt myself sitting there not liking it for specific reasons.
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And one of them being that the negative was that like at the end of act one,
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we're talking about like, we are embracing it.
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We built the shoes, we're all happy,
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we're a family, everything's great.
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And then we go back to Charlie just being,
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he like almost takes all the trauma.
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that Lola talks about and uses it against her in such a way that it is
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It felt like we missed the point.
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It felt like there was a point there.
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And then you're like, and this is why I was almost sad that Charlie never gets
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a redemption arc. And like, and not that he needs to like necessarily,
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I guess, redeem himself, but I wanted him to,
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because I wanted him to be a good guy.
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And at the end, I still left thinking like,
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I don't care that your business survived because you were still not great.
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You still used horrible language.
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You, you picked at a scar that Lola had pointed out to you.
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and felt justified in that and then like you were apologizing on
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the phone and everything was okay.
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But you apologize to a voicemail and everything was okay.
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Yeah. And on the flip side of that,
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again, just because like this is when the writing was how the writing was like,
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and Lola takes it. Right.
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Yes.
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~ obviously, yeah,
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his behavior, not even just towards her,
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but for his entire company was extremely poor.
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And they've complete opposite of all of the progression that we felt like
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we were making up until that point.
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And so it was like, it was like a hard stop at the top of act two,
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basically.
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Yes.
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To what felt like shred everything we had gone through in act one.
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And then in the last five minutes be like,
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but everything was totally fine,
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even though they never spoke.
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And there's no, like you said,
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there's no redemption piece. Not that everything needs to be like wrapped
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up in a pretty bow, but like this specifically,
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the way that it ends. It's like we skipped.
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It's like we put a bow on a gift with wrapping paper,
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but we didn't tap a tape the wrapping paper down.
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Like we were just like,
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correct.
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throw it on here. So it looks kinda sorta pretty and just say that it's good.
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I think that when you look at it that way,
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this is, and again, we're gonna talk about the positives in just a moment,
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because we're gonna end on a high note.
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like, so when you're looking at Charlie,
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and I do want to reiterate,
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this could be my interpretation,
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and listeners, you could have a different interpretation.
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But when Lola finally walks away from the abuse that Charlie's throwing at her,
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it almost came off, and RJ, check me here if I'm wrong,
18:30
but it almost felt without these exact words,
18:33
being like that, we don't want the freaky people to scare off the normals.
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That's what it felt like when he was like,
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we don't want you people basically on stage walking these boots,
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which felt like that was just so left field for the message that we were going
18:48
up to that point, that it almost was shocking to the point of like,
18:51
was like, are we doing this? And I don't want to say it,
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but like.
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It was written by an older gay man and this felt very old.
19:00
Like this felt like a very old stereotype of just being like the,
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well, we can accept, accept some of you in private,
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but none of you in public. And I didn't love that.
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And then his only punishment was the ha ha you had to walk in the high heel boots
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in your underwear at the show.
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And like, you're okay now because like you,
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you were punished enough for that when that was like,
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again, that's not, shouldn't be a punishment.
19:25
But like, but to the straight man,
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that was a punishment. so like,
19:28
was just, again, this is where I was like,
19:29
how did like, again, old, you know,
19:32
this is based off a 2005 film,
19:35
but like where nobody checked this.
19:39
Nobody thought that the story,
19:41
like there was something, there was so many pieces here.
19:43
was like, somebody should have said that this feels almost offensive instead
19:47
of inclusive.
19:48
Yes, which I think tells us just how far society actually has come.
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~ Although right now, obviously,
19:56
it feels like we're going backwards.
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But
20:00
That probably was the norm. Like that probably did feel progressive
20:04
in the early 2000s. fact that a drag queen
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was even on stage in a mainstream media type facet
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was like, Ooh, taboo, like crazy.
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Especially considering, you know,
20:24
not too many decades before you could still get arrested for
20:30
dressing up, ~ just out on the street.
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So like I get how in its time,
20:38
it probably seemed like it was doing the most,
20:41
but now translating it, it's still very damaging.
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~ But it always is, like it is the,
20:49
like.
20:50
as old as time in regards to the queer person is always made
20:57
out to be.
20:59
Not in this case made out to be the bad guy,
21:01
but kind of like the bad guy in the sense like you're not normal.
21:05
And so, and because you're not,
21:09
you can't come, you can't sit with us.
21:13
Correct.
21:15
even though I took your ideas,
21:17
I took your designs, I'm plastering them internationally.
21:23
but you can't be there, you can't show face,
21:27
and there's absolutely no way that your friends can.
21:32
The industry that these are actually built for because...
21:37
think he even says that he wants women to wear them,
21:42
right? And that's the
21:43
He does.
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argument is that like, but they aren't for women.
21:47
They aren't for, excuse me, cis women.
21:49
And so...
21:51
Right.
21:52
Yeah, it was the most whirlwind of a show that I think,
21:58
like emotionally and mentally for me that I've sat through in a long time because
22:04
I did really want, and I would say I still enjoyed it and will obviously dive
22:09
further, but like there are pieces that I'm like,
22:12
that is the cringiest thing that could have happened there.
22:17
Yes, and I, as we sit here, we are two different kinds of queer men here,
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you know? And like, for me, I am like,
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I am a cisgendered gay man and I can pass most of the time.
22:30
Most people wouldn't guess I'm gay unless I decided to get really excited about
22:34
something and the voice comes out a little bit.
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And to me, it almost made me feel like,
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is this something to be ashamed of?
22:41
You know? And so, but also when you think of the other people
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who are different forms of queer,
22:46
in the audience. Because this,
22:47
I'm not saying anything about the population that was there.
22:50
Older people seem to love this.
22:52
Older cisgender people seem to love this show.
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And that's where it seemed it was aimed for.
22:55
Because it felt like, let's be inclusive to the old people.
22:58
And like this, we're taking so many steps for that.
23:01
And I felt like, yes, I am so glad that we had a story that a show that featured
23:06
not one, but at least five drag queens in a very positive way for the most part.
23:11
But the biggest takeaway from the show was the
23:17
There was a line that someone said about Don,
23:19
who was, Don is this very grumpy,
23:22
almost think of like ~ the straightest man you know.
23:26
And he was challenged to accept somebody for who they are.
23:30
And his message was, he's accepting the person who is actively being mean
23:37
to the drag queens. like,
23:41
that was the message of like, we should accept you because you're not.
23:44
as progressive as us when I felt like the like did Charlie deserve like
23:49
yes he deserves grace but like why is that the grace that we are seeing
23:53
on the stage why isn't it Lola forgiving him in a very positive
23:57
way because he's actually sorry the only time he actually felt sorry
24:01
was he was sorry that they weren't showing up because I had no one
24:03
to walk the catwalk for his boots sorry soapbox moment
24:07
Yeah,
24:08
no, that's a, it's a really good point.
24:10
I forgot about that because it is so again,
24:14
like I just to be a fly on the wall in the writer's room,
24:17
because I'm like, you built this whole show about inclusivity
24:22
and accepting people for who they are.
24:24
And then in
24:27
0.01 seconds you turned that entire plot point
24:32
on its head because You know what we're gonna make
24:38
The mean straight toxic masculine
24:41
man Except the other mean straight man
24:49
Yes.
24:50
That doesn't take any acceptance actually that's like the polar opposite
24:55
of like, why are you accepting that?
24:58
That is an acceptance that's allowing behavior,
25:00
that's allowing poor behavior.
25:02
And
25:03
Yes.
25:03
again, I think like, obviously this was built in a time before
25:07
we talked about mental health,
25:08
before we talked about toxic masculinity,
25:11
before we talked about any of these pieces.
25:13
And so I think that's why the show has carried for so long like this.
25:17
~ But it does so in such an unhealthy way.
25:23
It's almost, it's staggering because like you said,
25:26
the audience, was shocked at the demographic in the audience,
25:31
but it was two very different,
25:34
it seemed audiences. had an older generation who was there
25:39
for the laughs and for queerness to ultimately be the butt end of the joke.
25:45
Then we
25:46
Correct.
25:46
had the queer people who were there for the queerness.
25:51
and the joy of seeing a queer person on stage,
25:54
which full transparency, I was emotional for most of Act Two for that exact reason,
26:01
not for most of the plot. ~
26:05
I won't get on my soapbox there.
26:07
But that is what carried me through most of the show.
26:11
on the flip side while knowing like the people next to me were laughing because
26:16
they're making a joke about cross dressers or they're making,
26:21
you know, they're poking fun at some type of very toxic idea.
26:26
Like, so it's just, I don't know,
26:30
the balance of exposure because on the flip side of that,
26:34
I'm like, okay, but at least they're sitting down and watching the story take place.
26:38
They're seeing that these people are real people.
26:41
which I do think the story still at least is saying,
26:46
like, we are human, which again,
26:48
in our current political climate,
26:50
doesn't
26:52
We're gonna take it.
26:53
feel, it feels radical to say that,
26:57
It does.
26:57
which
26:58
is so bizarre, but like humans are human,
27:00
who would have known? ~ At the expense of like,
27:04
we're accepting your humanity,
27:06
but we're also gonna laugh at it.
27:09
It reminds me very much of people in my family that I've talked with,
27:14
and they're just like, we're old,
27:16
but look at how far we've come.
27:17
And this is one of those things of like,
27:19
it almost felt like, let's pat ourselves on the back for being old
27:22
and accepting a drag queen when it's just like,
27:25
and we're having this conversation.
27:28
know what I mean? I think that's like,
27:30
and I want to applaud this, the actors on stage are great,
27:34
but part of me is also like, the person who plays Charlie being
27:39
a queer man, being a gay man of some sort,
27:42
looking at his Instagram profile,
27:46
it's like...
27:47
you're doing a great job with a role,
27:48
like, ultimately, what are you saying about it?
27:51
Like, what are you saying about the topic of queerness?
27:53
What are you saying about this?
27:55
And I think one of the things that going back to the conversation,
27:58
again, I don't mean to be my soapbox,
27:59
but like, when the,
28:03
when it's talked about Don being accepting of Charlie for his actions
28:07
and not being inclusive, that conversation doesn't even come from Don.
28:10
Like there's like not even like a,
28:12
like Don doesn't even get a redemption arc.
28:14
It'd be like the, dude, like I'm accepting you because you're
28:17
kind of horrible. came from, again,
28:20
Lola, which I think is a, I'm pretty sure it's Lola.
28:22
But if not, it's literally, you know,
28:25
a minority of some kind, because it might be Lauren,
28:29
but it's like somebody else of some different level of minority has
28:35
to explain to the straight guy why the other straight guy is accepting him.
28:39
And again, this feels like, as a therapist,
28:42
I always talk about like,
28:43
we don't have to do the emotional labor for people,
28:45
with my queer clients. We don't have to take on the emotional labor
28:50
of trying to explain something to somebody to justify why we exist or
28:53
to justify why they're being a horrible person.
28:55
And it felt like they were putting that burden back on the people
28:58
who it shouldn't have to be on their shoulders of.
29:00
And again, this is an older show.
29:02
get it. But like, if the last show was in 2019,
29:05
why wasn't it updated a little bit to reflect a better story?
29:08
I guess I have so many questions there.
29:11
Yeah, and honestly, I didn't realize that he...
29:13
~
29:16
was any variation of queer. So that would be a very interesting conversation
29:22
to have, because I'm curious as to what his take is.
29:26
I mean, like, at the end of the day,
29:29
obviously, a job is a job, a character is a character.
29:32
But when you're playing a character nine times a week,
29:39
It's interesting. I mean, I guess maybe he's,
29:43
you justify it in your head a little bit.
29:44
And obviously like,
29:48
again, not every character is great.
29:50
And sometimes you just accept that and say,
29:52
you know what?
29:53
He's not a good guy and I'm still playing him.
29:56
mean, Lord knows I have experience with that.
29:58
So.
30:00
our in-home villain.
30:03
While this isn't necessarily a story of like a trans individual,
30:08
I do worry too though, this is a hoppin' step from a lot of
30:11
the rhetoric we're hearing nowadays as well.
30:13
Does it actually do more damage having a story like this?
30:15
for the larger queer population,
30:17
specifically when we're talking about trans individuals who shouldn't be
30:22
a hot topic right now, but are literally all government seems to be wanting
30:26
to talk about.
30:27
Yeah, so it's between a rock and a hard place because obviously this
30:33
is a very specific variation of identity.
30:37
And for those of us that are familiar with identities and how fluid,
30:42
especially gender and sexuality can be,
30:46
it can be extremely confusing for someone whose day to day isn't in that space.
30:51
~ And for example, like, I mean,
30:54
immediately when we were leaving,
30:56
and I got into the car with my family and we had a conversation kind
31:03
of about it because they had questions specifically regarding kind of that.
31:07
okay, so what's the difference between a drag queen and
31:12
a trans woman and what is drag?
31:17
I mean, all of these questions,
31:19
which are great questions, ~ but like...
31:22
They're so individual and I'm sure that not everyone is asking those questions.
31:27
And so what I could see happening is that.
31:32
people take this storyline and say,
31:35
well...
31:39
Ultimately, he's still a he or something of that nature.
31:45
~
31:45
right.
31:46
and so it's, it's just hard to draw that variance of like,
31:52
because it is kind of gray and based on the research that we've done.
31:59
Even looking at the intentionality behind Lola and whether or Lola
32:02
is straight or gay or what kind of queer has really been based upon
32:07
the actor that's taken it on. But from what I read,
32:11
Lola was originally supposed to be portrayed as straight,
32:16
which means that like as a cis straight man who also happens to do drag.
32:23
And there's just honestly...
32:26
I'm not like super into the drag scene,
32:28
but I've been in it enough to know that like that is almost never.
32:34
That is like the minority of drag,
32:37
like almost every drag queen or King that I know is some variance of queer when
32:43
right.
32:44
it comes to sexuality and or gender a lot,
32:48
especially nowadays, a lot of trans people are portraying drag queens or Kings.
32:53
And so there's just.
32:56
such. I'm interested in what
33:01
the idea is behind if they had ever discussed changing that
33:08
character at all and making it lean a particular way.
33:12
I will say there is a song that basically explicitly says that Lola
33:18
is straight or that Lola likes women and that women like Lola.
33:24
but it is extremely suggestive and I would argue that that doesn't actually play
33:30
a very prominent role in telling us what Lola's sexuality is or that
33:35
you could swing it any which way.
33:36
But again, we're talking early 2000s,
33:40
we're talking like we could,
33:44
we were barely learning a drag queen on the stage.
33:47
It's still a far cry from trans folks.
33:54
And let's be real, in the queer communities,
33:57
trans people are still pretty much the minority of the minority,
34:02
and they are still ostracized by their own communities.
34:05
So particularly,
34:08
and I'm probably gonna upset so many people by saying all these things,
34:11
but like, gay men. ~
34:17
are probably the most notorious,
34:19
but they're also the biggest group ~ with the most power
34:25
and the most privilege and the most exposure or however you wanna say that.
34:29
So there's my soapbox.
34:33
And you know, I do want to talk about real quick as well.
34:35
When we're talking about some of the negatives,
34:37
we're talking about some of the language that is used.
34:40
This also reminded me very much of like stepping back into like almost Rocky Horror,
34:44
the 1970s. They use words like transvestite,
34:47
they use words like cross dresser,
34:49
which again, they're using it in both a way to like,
34:53
to negate Lola's experience, but there's also times where it's used
34:56
to like explain Lola's experience.
34:59
which is interesting because that feels very dated.
35:01
And it also feels like if Lola was originally written as a straight man,
35:07
that was a language that they would have used back in the 70s in a way,
35:11
or even with gay men, these very outdated words that it's interesting because they
35:18
had smartphones. You know what I mean?
35:20
So it's a time where they're literally nowadays and they're using these words that
35:25
are
35:26
outdated and or could be damaging to a group of people within our group,
35:32
you know, like I still sometimes hear words like that to to refer to people
35:36
who are trans and that's not appropriate and that's not right.
35:39
But like and so that's why I worry like this this walks a fine line.
35:44
It's like it's like an introductory course to gayness and queerness for old people.
35:50
But also, is it doing damaging because it's giving people words
35:54
or thoughts or ideas?
35:56
that are not 100 % correct or right.
35:59
Like this could have used a rewrite.
36:00
They could have used Harvey Fierstein's work and they could have just rewrote
36:04
it just a little bit to be more inclusive,
36:06
a little bit better and more representative of the world that we live in now.
36:12
Yeah, and that's a good point when you talk about the time.
36:15
Like, it was very clearly that they were making this take place
36:22
in the present, or at least close enough to the present.
36:25
But then they were using these dated terms,
36:28
which makes me feel like they didn't learn,
36:32
right? Like society has learned over time and in regards to these,
36:37
the terminology, that it's not what we use anymore.
36:41
that very easily when going through the script could have been negated
36:46
or changed in a way, or even lines added to explain how that's
36:51
no longer appropriate. And that's the moment,
36:54
those were the moments I was waiting to hear and was shocked when
36:57
I didn't hear them. To just, yeah,
37:00
to just like throw transvestite out there and then just like,
37:04
just keep going. ~
37:06
Yes.
37:08
was so weird.
37:11
And while we talk about
37:12
So jarring.
37:13
the audience being older, on the flip side of that,
37:16
I mean, how many people did I see wearing kinky boots?
37:21
correct.
37:23
I mean, I saw there were so many,
37:24
like this show speaks to a queer audience for a reason,
37:28
but you're not doing them any service
37:32
by including incredibly what previously and what
37:38
and now and still is ultimately derogatory terminology in a time where it's
37:44
already being thrown in our faces every single day.
37:51
~
37:52
Correct.
37:53
so very, yeah, very bizarre. Don't get it.
37:57
That being said, before we wrap up,
37:59
do want to just give a shout out to Omari Collins or SCARLETT D.
38:03
VON’DU who plays Lola. That was probably the standout performance for
38:09
me of the show. And I think part of it too is that I just kept thinking
38:13
of the burden that was on her shoulders the entire time for the show
38:17
of like doing all of the explaining,
38:19
even when she's not verbalizing it,
38:22
but like having to do it on both layers being like the meta layer
38:25
and the story layer.
38:27
~ So to me that was really a standout performance by Lola and plus
38:32
she fucking killed that role. That was fantastic
38:36
Yeah, I mean, thank God. I will say,
38:39
like, the redeeming quality of the show is the casting.
38:44
because you took authentic, mostly from what I read in bios,
38:49
you took a handful of queer people and put them into the cast,
38:55
including people who have lived the experience of either being a drag queen
39:01
or some variation of previously performing in drag.
39:05
And that's important. Like we live in a time where there are enough act,
39:10
especially,
39:11
let's be real, especially Broadway actors,
39:13
~ that that can be true,
39:17
that you don't need to bring in a slew of cis white straight
39:23
men to play these roles. So I was appreciative of that.
39:28
And obviously, especially for Lola,
39:30
I mean, I don't think there's any way to cast it.
39:34
~
39:37
But I will also say my, I guess you could say featured role standout would be.
39:43
Sophia Gunter as Lauren ~
39:47
Okay?
39:48
Her vocals were just fire. ~ And as we'll get into the songs
39:54
and such in the next episode, but she slayed
39:59
~ and her physical comedy,
40:02
her vocal comedy, just,
40:05
it broke up these more heavy pieces.
40:08
And so I was very, she was extremely entertaining to watch and
40:13
I'd actually really love to see her.
40:16
in other shows doing other roles because she was just to watch.
40:21
I will agree, ~ Sophia Gunter killed it as Lauren.
40:25
I think that was one of the highlights of the show besides Lola,
40:27
that I really just loved the characterization of,
40:30
like, she got to have such a meaty comedic role.
40:34
You don't usually see that for,
40:36
like, the female lead, romantically,
40:40
you know? I also want to give a shout out to John Anker Bowe,
40:44
who played George. First off, saw him in Come From Away when it toured last year,
40:49
and I thought he was fantastic in that.
40:52
And then George, who was just kind of in the background,
40:54
but it definitely was like the older person that was slightly more progressive
40:58
and didn't approve of Charlie's actions,
41:01
even though they didn't say that.
41:01
So I liked his role too. I thought it was an interesting balance.
41:05
And then getting to see him at the end kind of embrace what was felt like
41:09
a level of queerness a little bit.
41:10
I did love that. So.
41:12
That's interesting. I didn't realize that we saw him,
41:17
but it actually in my, it makes so much sense.
41:19
Yeah.
41:20
He played the one that ended up forming a romance in Come From Away.
41:24
Yes. Yeah, I literally can hear his voice
41:27
in my brain with that English accent.
41:30
Correct. But on that note, are running out of time.
41:34
We're running over time right now because we had such a great discussion.
41:36
However, stay tuned for part two of our Kinky Boots discussion.
41:39
Thank you again for joining us here in our box seats.
41:41
Until next curtain call.