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How Union Negotiations Reveal the Real Cost of Misalignment · Speak In Flow

• 0:02
  Melinda Lee: Welcome to the Speak and Flow podcast, where we help CEOs build leadership teams to move together through installing communication infrastructure, because I believe communication is not a soft skill. It is how the organization moves forward. And joining me today is a dear friend for a very long time, but she also does wonderful work.
• 0:25
  Melinda Lee: at the California Teachers Association. We are talking about alignment within the union and why this is so important that and also relates to our organizations because in a union there's thousands and thousands of members and they all have to get together and agree on a couple key things. And so we're going to take some of the lessons that and some of the things that they do within the union and apply it to organizations and
• 0:50
  Melinda Lee: leadership, and also you as a CEO, who are leading executive teams, leadership teams. And so her name is Yvonne Cheng, and she is the member benefits consultant at the California Teachers Association. Welcome Yvonne to the Speak and Flow podcast.
• 1:07
  Yvonne Cheng: Hi. Thank you, Mel, for inviting me to your podcast. I'm so excited to be here. Kinda nervous, but definitely more excited.
• 1:15
  Melinda Lee: Oh my gosh, I'm looking forward to the conversation because it's always so dynamic to talk to you and just always fun. Oh.
• 1:22
  Yvonne Cheng: you.
• 1:23
  Melinda Lee: You've always got you've always got good advice for anybody who you know, always good, sound, grounded advice. And so I'm gonna start off with the first question.
• 1:34
  Melinda Lee: There is a busy, busy leader out there who has stopped to listen to this podcast, and so what do you hope can change in the way the person leads by taking in what you're about to tell them?
• 1:48
  Yvonne Cheng: I think…
• 1:49
  Yvonne Cheng: listening to what your employee wants, right? As a CEO, you want to be very successful, and you're leading a company, and I think listening and just observing what your employees are doing is huge in being successful, right? As
• 2:06
  Yvonne Cheng: somebody that works for the union, we listen to our members, and we listen to what they want. We see what they want, we hear their needs, and we want to be able to give them that through their contracts, right? So.
• 2:21
  Yvonne Cheng: Just working in a, this is the first time I've ever worked in a union and it is so different from the corporate world, right? I was in retail for 20 years for a very well-known company, right?
• 2:34
  Yvonne Cheng: You know, I think leadership and communication could get broken down because it's so big. And yes, our union is big. It's 310,000 members strong.
• 2:45
  Yvonne Cheng: But we take so much pride in what we believe in for our union members, the educators, that listening to their needs is really what we can do to make them successful. These educators are teaching your kids, so making them successful by listening to what their needs and wants are are gonna make your kids very successful, too, so…
• 3:08
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:09
  Yvonne Cheng: Hand in hand, yeah.
• 3:11
  Melinda Lee: I mean, they so deserve it, they totally deserve it. And so, for the audience, can you share a little bit more about what you do?
• 3:17
  Yvonne Cheng: Sure, so my role in the union is I work in member benefits, so this is actually outside of the scope of their medical, dental, and vision benefits. So these are given, to them, these are given to the educators through their district, but as
• 3:32
  Yvonne Cheng: myself and what I do in member benefits, we offer additional benefits to our members. So, any of these benefits could range from working with some of our endorsed partners. So.
• 3:44
  Yvonne Cheng: A lot of people may not know this, but educators, number one, they do not get Social Security, and number two is they don't get short-term disability.
• 3:56
  Yvonne Cheng: As somebody who has many jobs with corporate, you know, you just see on your paycheck.
• 4:02
  Yvonne Cheng: short-term disability, long-term disability, it's automatically taken out of your paycheck. So, if you need to go on a short leave or an extended leave, it's already taken care of, and your paycheck is protected, because you have that disability insurance. Most educators
• 4:17
  Yvonne Cheng: and their districts do not offer that. So we offer a very important benefit to our members to have disability insurance.
• 4:26
  Yvonne Cheng: Right? It's really protecting their paycheck. And it's so important that we provide these benefits to our members so they can succeed in their job, especially if they need to go out because they got injured or for mental health reasons.
• 4:41
  Yvonne Cheng: So, that's part of what I do. So, we talk about that benefit, but we also have other benefits that can help them, right? As educators, they start off with not a very high salary, so we offer them.
• 4:53
  Yvonne Cheng: Discounts on products, you know, everyday savings, but also how to really protect and save them, or save money for them, with our other vendors, like home and auto insurance.
• 5:07
  Yvonne Cheng: So what I do is, I'm a business partner with them, but I also, go to CTA conferences, and…
• 5:16
  Yvonne Cheng: present benefits to our members. You know, a lot of our members aren't familiar with the benefits that they get, and how much money that they can actually save. So, I go around all of California and go to conferences, but also, with my fellow
• 5:33
  Yvonne Cheng: CTA staff, I, will help them present member benefits to help them organize in their local.
• 5:41
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love the passion, and I, you know, they so deserve it. So it's great that you educate them and let them know what they deserve and what they can take advantage of, especially for the work that they do. And so when we think about the word alignment, it's such a big word, an overused word, and so it's like, let's just break it down in terms of the context of the union. What do you think?
• 6:06
  Melinda Lee: About alignment when… in that context.
• 6:10
  Yvonne Cheng: So I would say, with alignment and the Union, I think one of the most important things is
• 6:17
  Yvonne Cheng: Well, I'll give an example, and one of the most important things is our educators work with a contract, right? So in that contract, it allows them to not be overworked.
• 6:30
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 6:30
  Yvonne Cheng: Right. And I think one of the things
• 6:33
  Yvonne Cheng: that could go great, or it could go south in the union, is whether or not the school district is aligned with the local union, right? If they're aligned together, everything could go so much more smoothly, right? Because the educators are getting what they want from a contract.
• 6:53
  Yvonne Cheng: that's gonna help them succeed, right? And a big example is salary.
• 6:58
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 6:58
  Yvonne Cheng: And salary has been such a.
• 7:01
  Melinda Lee: Pain point.
• 7:02
  Yvonne Cheng: Exactly. Such a pain point for all our new educators, and it's really tough, because some people don't even want to start in this profession anymore, because
• 7:12
  Yvonne Cheng: you know, it could take you 20 years to make 6 figures, where some jobs, you're just right out of college going in and making 6 figures, but the passion that these people have to educate
• 7:25
  Yvonne Cheng: Is.
• 7:26
  Yvonne Cheng: It's unbelievable. But going back to alignment is, you know, it's very important that the local and the school district is aligned within what their contract gives the educator, right? Just to make it more positive.
• 7:42
  Yvonne Cheng: You know, last year, there were several strikes that happened within California because the school districts were not aligning with the local union because of pay, taking on more hours, taking on more students.
• 7:57
  Yvonne Cheng: Trying to get free healthcare. So, when it's not aligned, it's very difficult. But… and then it can lead to strike, which, you know, if we need to strike and organize, that's something that CTA will help the…
• 8:11
  Yvonne Cheng: educators do in their district, but alignment is so important within the district and the local to have successful educators.
• 8:22
  Melinda Lee: And that is why it's so challenging, because you have so many people that are fighting in the CTA or at the local level to align themselves with the district and with the administration.
• 8:37
  Melinda Lee: You know, and so when you talk about alignment, are we talking about everybody coming together to an agreement?
• 8:44
  Yvonne Cheng: Yes. So, yeah, aligning in what the educators deserve and what the school district is willing to give them. Right? It's always so contentious about money. Right? It's always saying, we don't have the money to do this. We don't have the money to do that. Or if we shuffle things around, maybe we could get it. But when the schools went on strike last year and the school district said they didn't have any money Mhmm.
• 9:08
  Yvonne Cheng: The locals won. They won through their strike because they got the raise, they got free healthcare. So it's really about committing to
• 9:19
  Yvonne Cheng: getting what you want right? So
• 9:22
  Yvonne Cheng: And with that, I think just making sure.
• 9:27
  Melinda Lee: How long did that last last year?
• 9:29
  Yvonne Cheng: Some strikes last anywhere between three to twelve days. The longest one last year that I helped with lasted twelve days.
• 9:37
  Yvonne Cheng: You know, that's a lot of days, you know, and it does really…
• 9:41
  Yvonne Cheng: you know, cause disruption in everybody's lives, right? So, missed paychecks through the educators, and then childcare with parents. So, it's important that we align with the school districts to not have to strike, but if the strike is necessary, we're gonna do it to get what the educators want. And it's actually…
• 10:02
  Yvonne Cheng: you know, it is deserving of what the educators want. So striking is just necessary sometimes.
• 10:09
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and, like, the power… I love it, because after 12 days, I mean, they're using their voice, they're being heard, or, you know, they're taking a commitment together, and building that coalition, and…
• 10:26
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, their voice together to be heard.
• 10:30
  Melinda Lee: And, but it does require like a lot of, like you said, a lot of commitment, time off.
• 10:34
  Yvonne Cheng: Mhmm.
• 10:35
  Yvonne Cheng: But the outcome…
• 10:36
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 10:37
  Yvonne Cheng: But the outcomes of them winning their contract is far more… it outweighs any of the bad.
• 10:44
  Melinda Lee: can.
• 10:45
  Yvonne Cheng: happen. Yes, they'll go through struggles during that time, but when they win their contract, it is such a big win. Yeah.
• 10:52
  Yvonne Cheng: I mean, everybody's hearts is just so full because of that great win. Because finally, they're aligning, right? Because if you're not in alignment, it causes so much disruption, not only with the educators, but with the families of the people, of the school children.
• 11:12
  Melinda Lee: Do you think that like how did it break down in the first place? Like, was it out of contract? Was it a trust? Like, what happened there? So every time.
• 11:22
  Yvonne Cheng: So, oh, that's a good question.
• 11:24
  Melinda Lee: I agree.
• 11:25
  Yvonne Cheng: I'm sorry?
• 11:26
  Melinda Lee: They can renew their contract, and…
• 11:27
  Yvonne Cheng: So, actually, there's… the contracts only last 3 years, so they're in constant contract negotiations, right? So, the year… you know, sometimes people are preparing 2 years in advance for their next contract, right? But usually contracts.
• 11:43
  Yvonne Cheng: are 3 years, some are 2, because they just got out of a strike, and they want to re-evaluate after the 2 years to see what could happen. But, these contracts aren't long, so… because we know that educators deserve more, so there's always going to be a new contract every
• 12:03
  Yvonne Cheng: 3 years. That's usually, the average.
• 12:07
  Melinda Lee: And do you… do they usually align, or does it usually happen where it goes into strike?
• 12:13
  Yvonne Cheng: It usually aligns, I think, you know, if… If.
• 12:18
  Yvonne Cheng: the district is pushing back a lot, then it would go to strike, right? So it just really depends what they're asking for.
• 12:28
  Yvonne Cheng: But, you know, we don't want strikes because it disrupts the kids, right? We already have situations with COVID kids, you know, they shouldn't miss any more school. Right. But…
• 12:43
  Yvonne Cheng: Yeah.
• 12:44
  Melinda Lee: I wonder how union representatives take all of the educators' like opinions, thoughts, perspectives, needs and wants, and then roll it up and present it.
• 12:56
  Yvonne Cheng: Yeah, so, I mean, it's a little different because we are an association, right? So, we have about 1,100 locals all through California, and they all have different contacts, right? So, nothing is always ever the same within each local, but
• 13:13
  Yvonne Cheng: when it comes to lobbying for things that CTA is behind, then we all come together for that. So, an example is Prop 3, right? So, it's an existing prop that we are just trying to extend.
• 13:28
  Yvonne Cheng: which is continuing to bring tax dollars into our schools in California. If it is not passed.
• 13:35
  Yvonne Cheng: California faces to lose billions of dollars towards education.
• 13:41
  Melinda Lee: Okay, vote yes for Prop 3.
• 13:43
  Yvonne Cheng: Yes, on prompt three.
• 13:46
  Melinda Lee: More dollars to our educators.
• 13:48
  Yvonne Cheng: Yeah, continue Dollar Store.
• 13:50
  Melinda Lee: …to new dollars, right?
• 13:51
  Yvonne Cheng: Yeah, because in 2030, if it's not passed, we're gonna lose millions of dollars. I think I did a calculator.
• 14:00
  Yvonne Cheng: San Francisco Unified itself could lose, I I believe, don't quote me on this when I checked it, it's almost around $44,000,000 that they could lose. And that's a year. That's not for, like, x, like, five years. It's a year that they could lose.
• 14:15
  Melinda Lee: And that's.
• 14:16
  Yvonne Cheng: A lot of money. That's a lot of money, but not enough money.
• 14:18
  Melinda Lee: It's still, right, it's a lot of money, but not even that much.
• 14:22
  Yvonne Cheng: And just losing that chunk is is detrimental.
• 14:25
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 14:25
  Yvonne Cheng: Because it can It will, when we lose the money, it will force layoffs.
• 14:34
  Yvonne Cheng: And bigger class sizes.
• 14:35
  Melinda Lee: Right, right. Yeah. How much is the, the union, the, the trust between the union representative and the district, you know, how does that, how do they align there? How much does trust play a factor? Communication play a factor? Yeah.
• 14:52
  Yvonne Cheng: You know, it's tough because I've worked with some of my counterparts and they have great relationships with their…
• 15:02
  Yvonne Cheng: district and the superintendent.
• 15:05
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 15:05
  Yvonne Cheng: Right? And they just work just like this. They're on the same page because either they were I mean, most of them come from education. Right? And then they move up into the superintendent role so they understand. Right? Or maybe they should understand. I I'm I shouldn't say they do.
• 15:23
  Yvonne Cheng: But…
• 15:24
  Yvonne Cheng: working with them and having a good relationship, and having good communication, and knowing what you want that aligns together about, like, with the superintendent, it's really going to be the best for everybody, right? The superintendent aligns with the contract and knows that
• 15:43
  Yvonne Cheng: they do deserve a raise, and they do have the funds for it, and they're like, let's do it, right? And this is how we're going to break it down, then that's great. Everybody is successful, right? And then they can continue to do their job successfully. But obviously, if there is a superintendent that is
• 16:00
  Yvonne Cheng: Holding their ground, not wanting.
• 16:02
  Melinda Lee: going.
• 16:03
  Yvonne Cheng: raises, not wanting to make smaller class sizes.
• 16:07
  Yvonne Cheng: Then there's a huge misalignment. And then these are situations that can cause strikes.
• 16:13
  Melinda Lee: Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, so it's, like, helpful if, at least hopefully, like you said, if they've moved up in their ranks, and then they've been there before, so they understand what it's like.
• 16:25
  Melinda Lee: Going from union and then going into, like, superintendent role so that they can see. Yeah.
• 16:32
  Yvonne Cheng: You know, some superintendents are great at communicating and listening, right? So we talked about communicating how it could be successful. If you're a great superintendent that listens, that communicates, that reacts positively, then you're gonna have a successful…
• 16:51
  Yvonne Cheng: local, or a successful school district. You know, if you're constantly trying to fight with no communication, not letting them know what's going on, you know, it's… it's…
• 17:03
  Yvonne Cheng: It's gonna be a negative experience for everybody, and it's gonna continue until that person is no longer a superintendent. Right? Or they just have to keep fighting and maybe possible possibility of, you know, striking every time they have a new contract, which is just, you know, not ideal.
• 17:21
  Melinda Lee: Not ideal for anyone. Nobody wins.
• 17:24
  Yvonne Cheng: It.
• 17:25
  Melinda Lee: is so disruptive.
• 17:28
  Melinda Lee: It's so much time lost, it's hard, and then it ends up hurting the kids.
• 17:33
  Melinda Lee: And it's… Yeah, it just doesn't get anywhere. So the more we can find shared understanding.
• 17:40
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 17:41
  Yvonne Cheng: Shared understanding. That's great.
• 17:43
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. Yeah. On both sides. And start to just find the ways to just build the shared understanding and then build some solutions, build some, some fine ways to, to meet each other's needs.
• 17:56
  Yvonne Cheng: Yeah!
• 17:58
  Melinda Lee: And I think that's a part of, like, I'm, you know, I'm glad to hear that sometimes they have a really, you know, they do have a good relationship. And the more they have a better relationship, the more you think that they have easier time.
• 18:09
  Yvonne Cheng: Correct. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, it's like if you work with the CEO that listens Yeah.
• 18:14
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 18:15
  Yvonne Cheng: that will, you know, talk to everybody, because he wants to learn about them, and he's communicating, you know, how the company wants to go, and he's communicating it in a way where all his employees understand. I think that's great. Then they all follow
• 18:33
  Yvonne Cheng: Or they all want to be successful.
• 18:36
  Yvonne Cheng: in their roles, right? And they know that their CEO is backing them because he has had conversations with them.
• 18:46
  Yvonne Cheng: Right? You know, I couldn't imagine working at a company, and the CEO… well, I did work at a company, and the CEO knew my name. It was great, you know, the communication was there, and, you know, I really felt seen and heard. So, I think that's a huge part of just, you know, communicating
• 19:05
  Yvonne Cheng: you know, CEOs and employees, and then the district and the locals communicating just to make everything work.
• 19:13
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, you're speaking my language. That was like.
• 19:16
  Yvonne Cheng: you.
• 19:17
  Melinda Lee: Actually, I was going to ask that question. So what would it be like if everyone in the company or the union, they had these excellent communication skills where you're communicating the direction that we're going, people understand where we're going, and there's alignment, there's agreement, and then not even sometimes if there's no always agreement, but at least we can have conversations.
• 19:42
  Melinda Lee: You know, disagreements, or at least bringing up, like, you know, the different perspectives, but in a respectful way, right? Yeah. Like, listening to each other, at least feeling heard.
• 19:55
  Yvonne Cheng: Yeah, I think everybody should have the right to believe what they want to believe.
• 19:58
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 19:58
  Yvonne Cheng: CEO is communicating their vision for the company, you know, that's their vision. You work for them, you know, if… whether or not you want to believe in it, it's up to you, but you're working for that person, right? So, you know, if you want to believe it, that's great, you're going to be successful in your job, but if you…
• 20:14
  Yvonne Cheng: don't want to believe it, but you could still be successful, you know, maybe have a conversation with the CEO. It's all about communication, and maybe you need to know where you align with the CEO about what you believe in to be successful in the company, right? Or else it's just not the right job for you.
• 20:31
  Yvonne Cheng: Yeah. That's basically it. Right? But if the CEO is taking the time, you know, to get to know their employees and also communicating what their vision is, it does take a lot of time. It does take a lot of dedication. You know? So if you see a CEO trying to do that or is doing that, then the company's gonna be successful.
• 20:51
  Melinda Lee: Mmm.
• 20:51
  Yvonne Cheng: In my opinion, that's how I feel.
• 20:53
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Because you've been at other companies where they were not like that. And you've also been at companies where they knew your name, they had a conversation with you and Yeah.
• 21:02
  Yvonne Cheng: Yeah, you know, definitely. I worked for a big retailer, and I was in management for more… I was there for over 20 years… about 20 years, and at least
• 21:11
  Yvonne Cheng: 15 years of it, I was in management, and I worked with a lot of different store managers. The one that supported me, that knew my business, made me very, very successful. The ones that just…
• 21:24
  Yvonne Cheng: threw me out there and says, okay, this is my expectation, without talking, without having constant communication with them, I didn't succeed, you know, because I didn't know what they wanted.
• 21:35
  Yvonne Cheng: Right? So it was tough, you know, trying to assume what somebody wants isn't gonna be successful, right? They're not being set up for success. Right. So…
• 21:47
  Yvonne Cheng: having managers or CEOs that can communicate with you is really setting up everybody for success.
• 21:54
  Melinda Lee: Right, right.
• 21:55
  Yvonne Cheng: successful at
• 21:56
  Yvonne Cheng: Both. You know, at that place, and I was not successful at that place because of the different managers that I worked with.
• 22:03
  Melinda Lee: Right, right, right.
• 22:06
  Melinda Lee: No, thank you for sharing that story, because it is, like you said, it's so important for these CEOs to bring in the people, to bring in the alignment, and so that people feel on board and motivated to work.
• 22:19
  Yvonne Cheng: 100%.
• 22:19
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 22:20
  Yvonne Cheng: Yeah.
• 22:21
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, and that, like, that's why you're successful, so… and I think that that goes the same thing, yeah, it goes the same way for, the unions, right? Everybody's getting on board, going the same direction, and fighting for the same cause, and I think that's what a lot of people nowadays, I think.
• 22:37
  Melinda Lee: They wanna go to work because they feel like they can contribute. You know, they know the direction that they're going, but they also know that they can contribute and be a part of something, for the greater good. And I think that that is so important for people. And so I think that all has to tie in with the communication. Yeah.
• 22:55
  Yvonne Cheng: You know, I've had a lot of different careers, right? I worked in.
• 22:58
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 22:58
  Yvonne Cheng: Retail. I worked at benefit brokerage firms. I worked at a biotech. And.
• 23:05
  Melinda Lee: You've been working for a long time.
• 23:07
  Yvonne Cheng: For a long time I worked at brown people with my.
• 23:09
  Melinda Lee: First doll.
• 23:11
  Yvonne Cheng: I got paid$4.25, right? But it was the most fun job I ever had. I got to work with my friends, I got to make pizza. So it's fun, you know.
• 23:20
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah. But…
• 23:22
  Yvonne Cheng: Working at the union because of the work that the union does, I'm very proud and I feel very happy.
• 23:31
  Yvonne Cheng: happy and grateful to be doing this type of work. So it's definitely the most rewarding job I ever had, right? To have a rewarding job is great. You know, other jobs I was just like a workhorse. Just do your job and, you know, get a bonus.
• 23:45
  Melinda Lee: I.
• 23:46
  Yvonne Cheng: Work hard or work harder, and it was.
• 23:49
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 23:49
  Yvonne Cheng: You know, this job is very rewarding. So, you know, even though it could be tiresome, the reward outweighs that 100%.
• 23:59
  Melinda Lee: I love that. I love that. And that goes into, like you said, tied to the mission. And so when the CEO can tie things back to the mission, it is about making money. I mean, if it's a for-profit, it's about making money, but there's also more than that, like that people are looking for. Yeah.
• 24:15
  Yvonne Cheng: Yeah. A 100%.
• 24:16
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:17
  Melinda Lee: Awesome! Well, thank you so much, Yvonne! It was a really good conversation, and really appreciate your insight and sharing more about how the alignment works within unions and, the mission, you know, all the things that we do and you do, the CTA does for our educators, and we're really appreciative, and we hope that the educators, yeah, get what they want and deserve.
• 24:42
  Melinda Lee: and continue to support our kids.
• 24:45
  Melinda Lee: Yeah!
• 24:46
  Yvonne Cheng: Great.
• 24:47
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. Thank you so much and thank you for listening, dear listeners. And remember, anytime you have a chance to communicate, communicate what matters, communicate it often, and so your people move forward together. Until next time, take care. Bye.
• 25:04
  Yvonne Cheng: Bye!
• 25:05
  Melinda Lee: Okay.