Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / How much would Jacob deGrom cost? What can Detroit learn from the World Series?

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How much would Jacob deGrom cost? What can Detroit learn from the World Series? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: And welcome in to another episode of Tiger Territory, part
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory Network, Detroit Tigers Podcast.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I am Kieran Stegley. With me, as always, is a
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: man who, unlike Pumpkin Spice, is popular all year round.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: He is Cody Stavenhagen. How are we doing?
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Doing all right, Kieran. How are you doing?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I am doing well.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: We are recording this early evening on Wednesday as we
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: are approaching the World Series. We're going to get to
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a little bit of World Series talk and kind of
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: see how the Tigers match up against the two teams
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: in the Fall Classic in a little bit of a
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: unique way. And I'm looking forward to that conversation. But
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I did want to start out with an exercise of sorts.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Cody, because this offseason....
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Like every offseason, is going to be one where people,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: you know, want their teams to make moves, right? That's
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: kind of like, that's the thing that we do as fans.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: It's the things that media members like to see because
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: it generates buzz and interest. And, you know, we don't
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: like things to stay the same, right? So you want
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: to have something happen, a little action. And obviously wanting
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: something and then actually kind of going through the process
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: and pulling the lever, if you would, are two completely
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: different things. So I, like I said, I wanted to
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: do like a little bit of an exercise here, uh,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: to kind of demonstrate, like, do you actually want to,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I guess would be the question that this exercise is poses.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: And so there's a little bit of scuttlebutt on the, uh,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: on the interwebs today about the tiger should go after
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: and establish starting pitcher. That's not breaking news. We have
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: talked about this obviously over the course of the past
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: couple of months, uh, But the name that got thrown
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: out there was one Jacob DeGrom. And I was like, okay,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: that's interesting. So Jacob DeGrom, he is going to turn
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: 39 next season. Obviously, he's with the Texas Rangers right now.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: He is going into the last year of his contract
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: with the Texas Rangers. Technically, there's a mutual option for
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: an additional $ 37 million for the next season.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Not next season. The next season.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go ahead and say that that's not
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: going to be mutually agreed to. So let's just say
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: that the Grom is on an expiring contract, right? So
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: like I said, 39 years old next season, $ 37 million
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: is his salary. He does have a full no trade clause.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: So for the sake of this exercise, let's just assume
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: the no trade clause is not a thing.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: So, or at least not a hurdle, I should say.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Just a little reminder, DeGrom, I'm just going to go
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: by war in his time with Texas,. 7,. 4, 3.0,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: and then this past season, 1.7 war. So obviously somebody
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: who his best years are behind him, but maybe the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Tigers see something, they think they can hone in his
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: skill a little bit better than what the Rangers have
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: been able to do, call up the phone and say,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: let's make a deal. So all that being said, let's
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: try to get the top layer Cody of constructing a
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: trade for Jacob DeGrom, right?
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Okay. All right. All right.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: If you're going to ask me, would I rather have
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Jacob DeGrom on the Tigers or a pumpkin spice latte?
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: I'd probably say Jacob DeGrom on the Tigers. So I'll,
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: I'll entertain this exercise.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Well, check one pumpkin spice lattes for the Texas Rangers
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: in exchange.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And also I will say this.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Another reason that this is a little bit tasty is
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: that the Rangers are because they've kind of made some
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: win-now trades over the past couple years, their farm system
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: is not as deep as they would like it to be. So,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: if Tigers like their farm system, maybe there's a trade
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: that can happen. So, I'm just going to go down
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: the top 30 prospects for the Tigers according to MLB Pipeline.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: And you can either yes or no me, or elaborate, maybe, whatever,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: and just kind of stop me.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Alright, real quick, I want to give an overview of DeGrom,
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: and I guess just what I think about him. I
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: think he is obviously older, obviously not peak elite Jacob
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: DeGrom anymore. I still think he's a pretty good pitcher.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: I'm almost surprised that there was a four in front
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: of a ZRA, a worse ZRA than Frambois Valdez, and
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: he really struggled in the second half. Maybe he wasn't
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: entirely healthy, but man, he was really good in March
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: and April. He had a pretty good June. You look
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: at him metrically, Like, there are still flashes of dominance
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: within Jacob deGrom. He got hit really hard at times.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: I believe he gave up a lot of homers, 20
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: homers this year in 162 innings, which actually isn't terrible.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: But some harder contact than probably you're used to, but
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: still gets chased, still gets whiffed, and generally still throws
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: strikes at a really high rate. So although he's older,
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: there are traits I like. If we're talking about getting
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: him One year, I'm not too worried about what that
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: salary number is. Now, in terms of what it would
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: take to get him, I probably would hold a pretty
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: high bar just because he is older. It is a
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: one-year thing we're talking about. As much as I don't
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: like this free agent class, there are a few kind
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: of mid-tier starting pitchers. Shota Imanaga, maybe Foster Griffin, Michael
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: King could opt out. I think Trevor Rogers is going
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: to be on the market. Kevin Gossman, old friend, Casey Mize.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Can he bounce back? Like Chris Povich is out there.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: There are some pitchers that I kind of like and
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: might rather have than, than be willing to part with prospects,
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: probably multiple prospects for, for Jacob to Grom. So that's
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: kind of how I'm viewing this going into our exercise. Okay.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Well, would you, and again, this is more like centerpiece,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: not like the whole deal, because obviously it would take
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: probably a couple of prospects.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: So, Just wanted to make that known for everybody. Zaire Hope.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: No. Future everyday outfielder for the Tigers, so no.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Bryce Rayner.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: No way. I don't know if he's Corey Seager, but
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: he gets compared to Corey Seager. I think I'd rather
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: have the next Corey Seager than a 39-year-old Jacob DeGrom.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: River Ryan.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: Rayner does need to stop swinging and missing so much.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: River Ryan. They're He's kind of like a younger Jacob deGrom,
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: except he just hasn't had that success yet. I think
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: the Tigers like to, I don't know if there's a
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: nine-war pitcher in there, but I think the Tigers see
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: some similarities in profile. He's controllable. He's still a prospect. So, no,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: I'm not trading him for a year of Jacob deGrom.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Not as much younger as you would like, but definitely younger.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Well, deGrom is a late player, whatever that's like.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Uh, Briseño, uh, no, you're hoping he can really hit, man.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what he's going to become at
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: the MLB level, but I'm not trading him.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: First round pick Cameron Fluky.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: No, I think the Tigers think he's going to move fast.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: I think they think there's a lot of upside there. Um, no,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: no reason to move on from him.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Left-handed pitcher, Ben Jacobs.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: Uh, Jacob's had a really good year. Um, we'll see
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: what he is. You know, I think the question is like,
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: is he another Brant Herter type or is he a
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: legit starter? Is he, again, I think it's probably overblown
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: to say the next Tarek Skubal, uh, because Tarek Skubal
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: is a Cy Young winner, but could Jacobs be a
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: good starter? It's, you know, that's the best version of him.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: It's starting to be a little more palatable, but, uh,
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: I think especially given the pitching woes you just faced,
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: the depth issues you just faced, you, you can't trade
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: a guy like Jacobs for for.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: This recent acquisition Cash Mayfield.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: We're starting to get into the territory where now it's
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: like okay how do you actually feel about these pitchers
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: what is your actual evaluation do you think Cash Mayfield
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: is a fringe starter who you're just hoping really hits
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: or like are you still deeply believing in his upside
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know exactly the answer to that one but
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: I'm probably going to say I'm not going to trade
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: Cash Mayfield, but now this is in, as we're going
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: to kind of talk about later, this is where some
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: savvy teams can make some headway. If Cash Mayfield ends
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: up being nothing, then hey, that's not a bad deal.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: But now if Cash Mayfield ends up being really good,
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: that becomes a massive win for the Texas Rangers.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Jordan Yost, another former first-rounder.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: Yost, yeah, he was pretty impressive in spring training.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: He's fast.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: The size may always be a little bit of a concern,
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: but he's still filling out his frame. Left-handed, hits left-handed,
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: plays shortstop. You have a little bit of depth there now,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: you know, assuming Rainer becomes what you think he is,
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: assuming McGonagall is what you think, what we know McGonagall is,
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: but like, I don't know. I don't feel great about
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: trading Yost for one year of Jacob deGrom. So as
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: you can see, as much as I still really like
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Jacob deGrom, I'm not really willing to trade prospects for him.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Brady Smith, and that's number nine. We're on number nine now.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: It's right-handed pitching.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: That's kind of interesting, because I think the Tigers obviously
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: feel good about Smith. But let's say the Tarek Skubal
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: trade was for, not Brady Smith, but let's just say
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: it was for Sire Hope, River Ryan, and Jacob deGrom. Suddenly,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: that makes your eyes pop a little more. It kind
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: of makes you interested in that trade a little more.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: That's one way to view it, but you have a
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: limitless future with Smith, and you have one year of deGrom,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: who again is huge. another way to view it is
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: he a piece that puts you over the top he
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: could be or he could get hurt or he could
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: have a 4-2 ERA and he doesn't really help you
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: that much so I'm going no I'm ultimately going to
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: go no.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Now we're at 10 Max Anderson friend of the podcast.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: Well, if you're not going to play him anywhere, then
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: I guess I'd trade him for J.J.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Brown. There you go. There you go.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: I do think Max is going to play in the
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: big leagues and could be a useful right-handed bat, but
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: if you really don't think he has a position and
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: you really don't think he's an everyday player and he's
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: a short-side platoon guy, now I see where the value
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: aligns a little bit more. So actually, this might be
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: where I start to say, okay, if you think he's...
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: a glorified spare part, and I don't know for sure,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: but based on the Tigers' actions this past year, that
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: seems to be what they say, then suddenly I'm willing
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: to move him for a pitcher who maybe could really
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: help you.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like how you framed it with the Smith
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: piece of it, because I was thinking the same thing,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: and this applies to the Cash Mayfield piece of it.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: If you could trade an expiring two months of Casey
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Mize for a whole year of Jacob deGrom, like, you're
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: probably doing that.
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: And so like, it just kind of depends on your, your, uh,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: your value system and, and what your internals are on
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: these prospects. And, uh, yeah, we don't have to go
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: down the whole list, but here's the trade. I guess,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: you know, you can't do this exercise unless you have
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: a trade proposal.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: So here, here's the trade proposal, Max Anderson, Jace Young
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: for Jacob DeGrom. So you ignite, you, you unite the
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: young brothers. You give a, a, a, you know, you
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: give a useful player in Max Anderson who, uh, again,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: it just kind of seems like you don't think you
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: have that much room for him. And, uh, and, and
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: then you get the ground back. And, and I, and
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: of course, this is this thing that we talked to
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Max Anderson about where it's like, you know, he's don't
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: really want to be like be in trades, you know,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: trade proposals or whatever, you know, it's not that fun here.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: He told us that we empathize with it. And here
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: we are putting them in a, another trade. So anyway,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: so that's, so that's the exercise, right? So it's like, where,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: where is your comfort level with giving up? You can't
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: get somebody for nothing. Giving up potential prospects, et cetera,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: for something that is more known.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: But of course, it's baseball. Not everything is all known.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: So I would encourage everybody to do that anytime. Anytime
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: that you see a player, it's like, oh, it wouldn't
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: be great to trade for so-and-so. It's like, all right,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: go down the list. It's going to be more complicated
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: than this exercise, I'm telling you. But go down the
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: list and see what you think.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: That's a good way to put it. I think where
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: I overall land is like I'd probably rather try to
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: hit on a guy in free agency than trade for
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: Jacob deGrom ultimately.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: All right. There you go. All right, Cody.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: As I mentioned earlier, the World Series is coming up,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: which is why I am looking for the best deal
• 13:03
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  Speaker 2: Use it later. Thank you, SeatGeek. All right. Yeah, so, Cody,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: you know, this World Series is... This feels like a
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: ball lover's World Series. Like, if you really love baseball,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: this is the World Series for you. And it's not
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: the overly topical, sexy... It's not Yankees, Dodgers, which, again,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: this is not me.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: being, you know, critical of Yankees and Dodgers, but you know,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: those markets are what they are, right? This is Milwaukee
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: versus Tampa Bay. So as somebody who, you know, spent,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: spends your life covering this sport and, and even spent,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you know, the past couple of weeks covering the post-season
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: in general, what are your thoughts on this matchup?
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I, I love it. And I was talking to
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Brian Anderson, the broadcaster today, and he said exactly what
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: you just said. He said, this is the, if you know,
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: you know, world series. If you know ball, you love
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: this World Series, and so I'm excited for this matchup.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: I think, if you want to know my prediction, I'm
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: picking Brewers in five, but I wouldn't be shocked if
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I could also see it go seven, because these teams
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: are so similar in style. How do they kind of
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: combat each other could be really interesting, and I mostly
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: hope it gets a little more due among the casual fans.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: I hope people... I hope this isn't just a total
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: dud in terms of the ratings and everything. It's not
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: going to be what Yankees Dodgers would have been, but
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: I hope it's still pretty good. I hope it's better
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: than Rangers D-backs was a few years ago, just because
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: these small, these are small market teams doesn't mean they're
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: not really good. Doesn't mean they're not really interesting. If
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: you're willing to dig below the surface a little bit,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I think we're going to see some, some really good baseball.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And it's amazing because these are two forward thinking analytics teams.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: driven teams. And yet it could also be the get
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: off my lawn world series. Cause they, they hit for
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: contact and they bunt and they both steal bases. And
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: there is a traditionalism and purism that if people want
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: to see, um, the, this is it. These are the
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: two teams to watch.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Uh, I, I think this is a very deserving world series.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I think is kind of the word that, that comes
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: back to me is that like, these are, two teams. Obviously,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: the Brewers had the best record. The Rays ran away,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: somewhat literally, ran away with the toughest division in the
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: American League. It feels deserved and fitting, not to say
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I joke about Cleveland. They can't keep getting away with this.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Had they gone to the World Series, I'd be saying
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: that cliche again. Obviously, Dodgers, it's a well-run organization. It's
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: got star power. It seems like they just kind of
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Ran out of gas. Dodgers played a lot of games
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: over the past several years. I don't know if you
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: know this. So, you know, eventually you just kind of
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: have some wear and tear there. But this is fresh.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: This is, like you said, a blend of everything. I'm
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: going to.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Go Tampa in six. That's my prediction.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I just, I can just kind of, I see like
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: a Chandler Simpson game. Yeah, you know, I don't know
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: which game that will be, but I just see a
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Chandler Simpson game maybe making the difference and tipping the
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: scales a little bit.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: But I'm excited for this World Series.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: And, you know, if we want to bring it back
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: to like a Tigers perspective, like, you know, there are
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: different ways you can kind of compare like the Tigers
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: to like these two teams, you know, head to head,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: you know, run differential, like this stat, this, you know,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: OPS and ERA and like all those things. But one
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: of the things I wanted to do, Cody, was just
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: kind of figure out like how many everyday tigers would
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: start for the.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Brewers of the race.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: You know, that, that was kind of, that was kind
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: of like my thought into this, like, because if you
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: think you can get there or you should have gotten there,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: which I think things are probably a little bit down and, and,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: and tiger fandom and no one thinks they should have
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: gotten there. But if you think they could have gotten there,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: you know, do you have the horses to, to get
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you to the finish line basically? And so, Let's just
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: kind of go down. Which one do you want to
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: do first? Do you want to do Milwaukee, or do
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: you want to do Tampa? Just compare starting lineups over
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: the course.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: Of a year.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: Let's do the Rays. Let's do your World Series champion,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Tampa Bay Rays.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: All right. Well, then let's go there.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: And again, for simplicity purposes, I'm just looking at how
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: baseball reference, because this is going to be one of
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the sites of record forever.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, somewhere A.J.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Hinch is shaking his head. We don't have nine set
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: position players, Bobby.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Well keep shaking aj but this is the simplest way
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: to do it for the sake of record moving forward
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: so that's just so just for the for the record
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: there so would you take dylan dingler or nick fortes
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: dingler all right would you take spencer torkelson or jonathan aranda.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Uh aranda.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: All right would you take Real quick, real quick.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: Liam Hicks has been really good at catcher since last
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: year with the Marlins and since coming to the Rays.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: The Tigers famously let him go in the Rule 5
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: draft and it's a little more palatable because they have
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Dylan Dingler and for a while you felt good about
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Jake Rogers and you still feel good about Valencia and
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: you have Lorenzo on the way. It has become palatable,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: although if you had Liam Hicks and Dylan Dingler, you'd
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: be feeling pretty good, and I don't know, maybe that
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: would allow you to DH Valencia, or he could be
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: getting more reps at first base all along or something
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: like that. So that's an interesting wrinkle, is there's a
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: really good player on the race who the Tigers would... go,
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: and although it doesn't look great in hindsight, the Tigers
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: actually haven't really got ripped for it. Like, they do
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: get ripped for plenty of other things.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: It's certainly justifiable with how things have turned out, even
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: if it's like, you know, it looks good for Liam,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: what he's been able to do. All right, Gleyber Torres
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: or Richie Palacios?
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Oof.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: That's kind of a hard one. Palacios, baseball reference, 1.8 war,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: 10 homers. I assume defensively he's probably going to be
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: a lot better than Glaber. I'm almost going Glaber, though.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Glaber's just steady, and I'm just going to pick Glaber.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: I could be wrong. Feel free to call me wrong.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: I'm going Glaber.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: All right, Taylor Walls or Kevin McGonigal?
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Well, Taylor Walls is an elite, elite defensive shortstop, 3.5
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: war despite hitting. Only. 222 with two home runs. Almost
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: all this guy's value is from defense. And that's a
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: nice trait to have. I think the Tigers would kind
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: of like to have a player like that and be
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: able to play McGonigal elsewhere. But for making me pick,
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's Kevin McGonigal. He was a seven-war player
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: as a rookie. It's not close.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Junior Caminero or Colt Heath?
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the Tigers would take Caminero. I think
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: he'd be a nice, helpful power bat to have.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Uh two guys of opposite styles chandler simpson or riley green.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: I mean look i would pick riley green riley green
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: is a three-time all-star he's one of the better hitters
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: in the american league i think if the rays had
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: riley green they would still find a way to play
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: chandler simpson a lot or if the tigers play had
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: chandler simpson they would still find a way to to
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: work him in there, even if Riley Green were the
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: quote-unquote everyday left fielder. But he made me pick. I'll
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: take the three-time All-Star bet.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I'm going to cheat because Matt Vierling is listed as
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: a center fielder. We don't have to go through that direction.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm just going to go Max Clark or Cedric Mullins.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: A little hard to say in the small sample for
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Max Clark. Like if we're talking... Long-term, it's obviously Max,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: even if we're talking for one season. I'm going to
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: take Max Clark. Mullen's had a really good year back
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: in 2021. He's pretty good the next year. He's never
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: quite matched it after that. He doesn't get on base,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: strikes out a lot. I'll take Max Clark.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: All right, Victor Mesa Jr. or Zach McKinstry?
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: Hmm, another two. kind of tough one i guess i'm
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: gonna lean mesa jr he just he had the better
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: year this year he's 24 uh in theory could still
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: be getting better so i'll go mesa all.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Right and then.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: If i just had if i had you say cody
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: like the tigers dh for 2026 was who.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Cause it's kind of a tough one.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: So I want, I want to get the best example
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: cause we're not going to go to my Jones on
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: this one. So who was the DH for the tigers?
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: If you just like the most DH at bats, I'm
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: trying to think right now. I mean, I still think
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: of Carrie Carpenter more as the tigers DH, even if
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: he still played a good chunk in right field. And
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: even though he was hurt, he is the guy I,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: think of, and the guy I would project to get
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: the most DH at-bats a year from now.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: All right, so Carpenter versus Yandy Diaz.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go with Yandy Diaz. Really good pure
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: hitter with a little pop to show for it, too.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: All right, and then we'll just go pitching staff as
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: a whole. Obviously, the highlights for Tampa, Nick Martinez, 3.9 Ward,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Drew Rasmussen, 4.7 war shane mcclanahan 1.4 war griffin jacks
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: 0.7 war uh and then they had a 2.9 war
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: closer as well in brian baker uh and you know
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: obviously a solid pen it's damp so uh you you
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: like uh which pitching staff.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah i mean tiger's pitching staff is not not shabby
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: at all um but if you're You're going to make
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: me pick. The Rays are in the World Series. The
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Detroit Tigers are sitting at home. So maybe it's that simple.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: The Tigers had a better staff ERA than the Rays
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: this season. The Tigers were sixth in ERA. The Rays
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: were seventh. But the Rays had this thing called a
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: bullpen and a lockdown closer. Therefore, I'm going with them.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: And the Tigers no longer have Tarek Skubal, so they
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: don't necessarily have an ace, where Rasmussen is pitched like
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: an ace, and McClanahan, when healthy, is certainly a top-level
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: guy as well.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: All right. Let's go to Milwaukee.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Not too shabby behind the plate, but it's Dylan Dingler
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: versus William Contreras.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's a hard one. Statistically, Dingler was
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: better this year. So if you're saying, who would I
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: rather have this year, I'm going to go Dingler. Contreras
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: has the better track record, has been one of the
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: best hitting catchers in the league for several years now,
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: and can hold his own behind the plate, too. So
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: it's a really hard one, but out of recency bias,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: I've got to go Dingler.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: All right, at first base, Spencer Torkelson or Jake Bowers?
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Bowers had a great year, 3.3 war. Got to go
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Jake Bowers.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: All right, Glaber Torres versus Bryce Terang.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Bryce Terang, 7.3 wins above replacement. Terrific defender, hit 21 homers.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Swipe some bags, we're going Terang.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: All right, Kevin McGonigal. Or Cooper Pratt?
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Pratt, both 21 years old. Kevin McGonigal got paid a
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: lot more money than Cooper Pratt and is ultimately the
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: better player going to McGonigal.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Colt Keith or David Hamilton?
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Oof. Yeah, I don't know. Joey Ortiz played a lot
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: of third base and shortstop for the Brewers. So I'm
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: picking Joey Ortiz out of those three players.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Okay. That is good.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And Jackson Chirio versus Riley Green in left field.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: Got to go Chirio with the youth. Better defender. Kind
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: of pretty similar offensive profiles this year. Chirio hit. 291
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: with 25 homers. ultimately a more well-rounded player and sky-high
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: upside for that guy.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Garrett Mitchell versus, and again I'm making the switch, Garrett
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Mitchell versus Max Clark.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a tough one. I guess just Mitchell's a
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: little more proven, had a good year playing 145 games,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: so for the sake of this exercise, I'll take him.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: I think Max Clark certainly has a shot to be
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: a better player than Garrett Mitchell in the long run.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: If Max Clark ends up being, having, like, the year
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Garrett Mitchell had this year, you would kind of hope
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: is like the, I don't know about the floor, but
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: like a, like a, if he ends up being Garrett Mitchell,
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: you feel okay about it, and you think he could
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: certainly be a lot better.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: All right, Zach McKinstry versus Sal Freilich.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Surprised to see Freilich, his numbers really were not very
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: good this year, but he's been a good player in
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: the past, I guess, maybe somewhat reminiscent of McKinstry, he
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: doesn't have a lot of power, he can run a
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: little bit, pretty good defender, hit. 288 last year,. 230
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: this year, so hard to say, I'm going to go Freilich,
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: I think overall watching him, I watch that guy, I'm like, dang,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: he's pretty good, even if it doesn't quite show up
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: in the numbers.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Alright, and Christian Yelich is listed as the DH of record,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: and we're doing the change. Christian Yelich versus Kerry Carpenter.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Another tough one. Carpenter had a bad year. If we're
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: talking Kerry Carpenter, peak Kerry Carpenter, 30 homer type Kerry Carpenter,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: or this iteration of Christian Yelich, who I actually think
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: a lot of people don't realize was only 0.1 war,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: hit 235 with 12 homers. If we're going that, I'd
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: pick Carpenter, but if we get to pick Pete Carpenter,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: I think we also get to pick Pete Yellich, who
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: was an MVP, so all things considered, I'm going Christian Yellich.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of leadership, veteran presence, still obviously makes
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: a huge impact on that ball club, even if he's
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: not quite the player he once was on the stat sheet.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: And then with the pitching staff, obviously Jacob Mizorowski is
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: the leader of the clubhouse there with a 6.54 and 1.8.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Eight zero ERA, but they.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Uh, they are relatively top heavy. Uh, if you look
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: at it, Logan Henderson, 3.3 war, Robert Gasser, 1.3, and
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: you have a couple of guys with a half, uh,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: you know, 0.5 war, but a really strong bullpen. You
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: got a lot of one points in the reliever category
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: and a couple, and one two point war guy in, um, Abner,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: your rebate. It's kind of, it's impressive to do from
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: a reliever perspective. Uh, I would probably lean the starting
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: rotation of the Tigers, but the bullpen is not even close.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, the Brewers had the second-best ERA in baseball
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: this year, so I'm going Brewers. And yeah, the bullpen's
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: a lot better. A weird stat, if we want to
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: throw it back to the Rays, the Tigers had a
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: better bullpen ERA than the Tampa Bay Rays this year.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: Detroit's bullpen ERA was 3.84. Don't say that. The Rays
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: was 3.99. But the Rays ranked first in the league
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: with 58 saves. Second was the Brewers with 55 saves.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: The Detroit Tigers... 27th with 32 saves. So being able
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: to pitch in leverage situations, being able to have reliable
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: options at the very back end of your bullpen matters. ERA,
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: not actually a great stat for relievers. I think we
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: can still use it to evaluate the stabs as a whole.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: But yeah, anyway, I'm taking both the Brewers and Rays
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: over the Tigers because of the bullpen. I don't really
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: care what any ERAs say.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Scott, for texting Cody that stat while we're recording.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: So to recap, this kind of leans to your Milwaukee
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: in five prediction there, Cody, because Tampa, we took five
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Tigers just in a straight starting lineup comparison over the
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Rays and only two versus the Brewers. So by that,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: general exercise it seems like there is uh the brewers
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: are in the advantageous uh position so that got interesting.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah it is interesting i think the comparison is fascinating
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: obviously what the rays and brewers did this year kind
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: of flipped the game on its head going back to
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: the old school small ball and again in some people's
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: minds it clashes with like being an analytical team but
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: all this, all any of this is, is like, it's
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: about the market, it's about market inefficiencies, that's what the
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: original iteration of Moneyball was, like, oh, we value this
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: thing called on base percentage, and the Rays saw everyone
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: paying for slug, and everyone paying for pull, and fly balls,
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: and said, as small market teams, lower payroll teams, how
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: can we exploit, you know, what's the new market inefficiency,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: and it turns out it was speed, and it was contact,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: and so they have The Brewers hit more ground balls
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: than anyone in baseball. The Rays hit the fifth most
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: ground ball percentage of anyone in baseball. The Tigers, 30th.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Very fly ball heavy team. I think what the Rays
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: and Brewers showed this year is there's not necessarily one
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: right way to play the game. I think there's still
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: aspects of the 2010s brand of baseball that makes sense mathematically.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: A pulled ball in the air is worth more than
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: a weak ground ball at the second base. It just is.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: But then when everyone's throwing 102 and stuff is nastier
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: to hit than ever and there are more elevated fastballs
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: than ever, the Rays and the Brewers showed, well, the
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: next push and pull is to kind of go back
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: to doing some things that other teams had stopped doing.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: It's interesting. I don't know that everyone has to go
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: full small ball now. I'm not sure I want the
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Tigers to rank first in ground ball percentage at the
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: plate next year. But I think there's certainly an argument
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: this gap shouldn't be so wide. The Brewers are fifth
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: in steals. The Rays were second in steals. The Tigers
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: were 29th um you know and they're a lot you
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: know sacrifices the Rays were first Milwaukee was fifth Detroit
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: was 30th could argue Detroit has gotten too stuck in
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: kind of the last iteration of baseball and has maybe
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: been a little bit slow uh to adapt as funny
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: as that sounds and it's funny because for years we
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: wanted the Tigers to be analytical and we wanted them
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: to walk more and we wanted them to hit for
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: more power and now it's like well I ain't I'll
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: never forget Pat Murphy three years ago sitting in his
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: office at Comerica and being like, we would be really
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: good in this ballpark. And he was right. And the
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: Tigers play in a big ballpark and I've never been
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: a huge like, oh, you got to build your park
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: type of guy. But oddly enough, they don't really have
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: a team. They haven't had teams that are built to
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: their park hardly at all. That's changing a little bit now. Obviously,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: we saw it in September with the younger guys and
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: more speed and those are things. The Tigers have, I think,
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: tried to address through the draft, and now it's kind
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: of a matter of what is that all going to
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: look like next year when there is a younger crop
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: of position players, and how can you kind of blend
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: some of these competing things that are going on in
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: the game. So I think the Tigers can learn from
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: these two teams in terms of play style. They can
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: also learn in terms of acquisition, trades. The Rays got
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: Griffin Jacks. The Rays are known for winning every trade. Again,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying the Tigers need to be the brewers.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: I don't think we want to see them trade off
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: star players at their peak, right? But the Brewers traded
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Josh Hayter and Freddie Peralta and Devin Williams and Corbin Burns,
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: and here they are. They've been the best team in baseball.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: They've got maybe not stars through some of those trades,
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: but D.L. Hall, pretty nice complimentary piece. Joey Ortiz, pretty
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: nice complimentary piece. They got William Contreras in a trade.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: He is a star. Two front offices that are willing
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: to trade and have won trades, and that is something
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: the Tigers... obviously have not done a ton of, at
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: least probably not to the level we would like to
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: see in certainly the past two years.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I would also note that the Brewers really made a push.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, tell me if I'm wrong here, made a push, uh,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: or wanted Tarek Scooble.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: And, uh, and they were the runner up for Scooble
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: for sure.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: And, and, and the, the reports are that the Tigers
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: had their asking price, you know, they weren't willing to,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: to meet it, but, uh, but it's not like they
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: sat on their hands over the whole thing.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like this was a team
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: that was willing to do it to a certain extent.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? And so I think that's
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: important though.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: And I also think it's important to note that like analytics,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: like analytics can't be analytics if it's stuck in its
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: own way. Like it has to respond to changing information
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: as the game evolves, as the players change.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: So like what we, what we think of analytics and
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I'll make a beer. 2014 is not the same analytics in,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: you know, in, in, in 2027, 2028 and beyond because the,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: the game changes and the, and so the numbers have
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: to change.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: So like, you know, uh, analytics is just trying, like
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: you said, market inefficiency and, and, and sort of responding
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: to where the game is and, and trying to find
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: an advantage in those other areas. It's just like, when
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Bill Belichick drafted Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski because nobody
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: had any size at linebacker back then. He was like,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: all right, well, I'm just going to get the biggest
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: dudes that are athletes and we're just going to throw
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: the ball over the middle field all day.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? That's analytics, really. You know,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: we just don't think of it that way.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: And that's why, like, yeah, again, I don't, all the
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: inputs changed, right? As all teams across the league started
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: chasing one thing, these two teams zagged and they've been
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: proven right for it. I don't think the Tigers need
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: to lead the league in sack punts next year. I
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: just don't think they do. They also have some things going.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: They are a bigger market and they have a little
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: more financial force than the Rays or the Brewers. They
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: don't necessarily need to become them, but you can probably
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: learn some things from them too. Fly balls, although still valuable,
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: are getting caught at a higher rate. Hard hit balls
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: and barrels are getting caught at a higher rate because
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: outfield positioning is so advanced and teams like the Rays
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: and Brewers have targeted more athletes in the outfield. More
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: balls get caught. So should you be uh should you
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: have the highest fly ball rate in the league right
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: now i'm not sure that would sound like trying to
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: throw to tight ends when linebackers are really big and
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: really fast so like yeah this is the constant shifting
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: it'll be fascinating to see kind of how the tigers
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: respond to some of the more recent changes we've seen
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: in the game.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah and uh and and all these things are being
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: taken into consideration uh you know every day by that
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: front office and And sort of like this is a
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: unique offseason that I do believe their actions will give
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: us like a really good idea about what kind of
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: pivots they.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Make, if any. So that's obviously something we can look
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: forward to moving forward. All right.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I want to remind you guys, you guys can follow
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: us on X, probably known as Twitter at Cody Stabenhagen.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: I am at Kieran underscore Stekley pod page at Tiger
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Territory underscore. You can go to TigerTerritoryShop.com. Holiday's coming up.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: It's sneaking up on everybody, right? Holiday's coming up.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: You can get merch.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: At TigerTerritoryShop.com. And as always, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, you guys
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: know what to do. We appreciate all of you. So
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: for Cody Stamenhagen, I'm Kiersten Eckley. Everybody have a great day.