Latest / Authentic Living / Rituals And the ROR: Return On Relationships (Part II) with Ezra Bookman

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Rituals And the ROR: Return On Relationships (Part II) with Ezra Bookman · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Our interview last week was so good that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
• 0:41
  If you missed last week, you'll find the link in the show notes.
• 0:45
  It's not mandatory that you listen, but we wanna make sure that you don't miss out on this
• 0:51
  amazing conversation.
• 0:53
  Everyone, it's, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:55
  Thanks for coming in again this week for authentic living with Roxanne.
• 1:00
  Today, I have a special young man, that, we have privilege to spend, some time in a
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  speaker's Bureau based out in New York City where he lives.
• 1:10
  So, Ezra, thanks for coming in today to kind of chat with us about your your subject expertise,
• 1:18
  which is rituals.
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  Thanks so much for having me.
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  It's it's an honor to be here, and it's an honor to still be considered a young man.
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  Well, you look very young.
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  So let's see, you know, the leaders and or maybe the CEOs that are listening to it.
• 1:34
  And they're thinking, It sounds interesting.
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  Ezra, why might I consider rituals.
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  Like, I'm having some difficulty.
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  I'm a little different than anybody else and we got the quiet quitting and You know, I've got
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  all that other stuff going on, and there's massive change, you know, post pandemic, all
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  that kind of stuff.
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  There's some morale issues.
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  Why might I consider a concept of what you're suggesting.
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  What would be the benefits?
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  Yeah.
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  Great question.
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  Thanks for asking.
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  Come to my website.
• 2:11
  Email me.
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  I'd love to talk to you more about it.
• 2:13
  If you're thinking that, I'd love to talk to you more about Esret Richllist.life.
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  I'll make the plug right now.
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  You know, I think read read Hoffman says it says it best.
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  He says, you know, the right rituals in the right place will help you build your culture,
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  coher your team, and achieve your goals.
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  But if you are unintentional about the rituals you create, you may find that rituals spring up
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  on their own that holds you back.
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  So, you know, what I would say to that person, you know, CEO, I would say, look, you already
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  have rituals at your company because you have a culture.
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  It might not be very well defined.
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  But you do have a culture and you already have rituals that embody the values of that culture.
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  They just might not be very good rituals.
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  And that might look like they're not effective at embodying the values that you sincerely hold
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  and that you want.
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  You know, you you're such a human centered leader and you really wanna them to know that
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  you care, but, like, your rituals aren't actually communicating that or even worse,
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  right, is that your rituals are actually working against your values.
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  They're communicating something totally different.
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  And so, if you're wondering that, you know, the the the question that you just have to ask
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  yourself is is not do I need or do I want rituals at my workplace?
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  Do I want good, effective rituals that work for me in my in my vision?
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  Because you know, what I would re what I would lovingly and and with a smile remind people is
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  that rituals have been, used in every single culture in the world in every place throughout
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  human history from the beginning of time.
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  Right?
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  We have evidence of rituals from our earliest ancestors at the the beginning of a hunt.
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  Right?
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  And so for something that powerful, and that core to human consciousness and behavior, how
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  how could you possibly leave it out of the conversation?
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  It's like a it's like a interconnectedness.
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  I I ran a team with a hospital and a hospital mental health facility And I was the new
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  leader.
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  I'll I'll give you this example, and this is this is this is so basic, Ezra, but it worked
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  like clockwork.
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  They had had my predecessors, you know, there was some issues with the with the leadership
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  that they had had.
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  And then I was the new kid on the block kind of thing.
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  Young, right out of grad school, kinda, you know, going with just I'm gonna, you know, have
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  them see that, you know, they're gonna trust me and you know how that goes when you're you
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  know, you starting with a team that has been through a lot.
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  And one of the thing I did and this is, you know, I I think I talk about it in my second
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  book, but for Christmas, right?
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  What I did was, and I was an outpatient team.
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  I had read I bought everybody on my team, red t shirts, and I put outpatient clinic, and then I
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  put their names under it.
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  And then I took them all to lunch.
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  And, you know, something that it, you know, small as or you wouldn't think, right?
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  Like, I mean, and the cost, you know, to the company overall was so minimal, but it it was
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  such a an invisible cohesive link that today, I I mean, listen, I'm talking 25 years ago now.
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  You know, when I connect to what we get together, they'll still talk about the
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  significance that, you know, something that, you know, it was to me, it was small and, you
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  know, but it was really, really significant because what they meant to them is, that they
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  were valued and that they were a team.
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  And a lot of the things that they've been holding out around getting over, that small act
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  actually helped them move, like, if they they got to accelerate a little bit quicker than I
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  thought possible with, you know, if that was one thing, but one thing amongst that
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  everything else.
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  So sometimes not understanding the impact of sometimes little things.
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  We underestimate how, things like symbolism or rituals, to your point can really, really help
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  people feel more connected or belonging you talked a little bit about belonging earlier.
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  Hey.
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  I love that example.
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  It's a it's a beautiful example, and there's so many, you know, the designer in me could really
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  pick that part and show you, okay.
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  Well, this is why clothing, right, is a is a incredible tool, you know, ritual tool.
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  And this is why the lunch was important.
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  And this is why communicating that gift, as a communication of I value you.
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  I am grateful for you, not just like you show up at at work and there's some shirt on your
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  desk.
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  You know, there's all sorts of things that you did that clearly had an impact on people
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  because they're still talking about it.
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  And and it meant something to them that was far bigger than a t shirt.
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  And so I I I I love that example.
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  And and I and I I especially love, you know, I gave a talk, you know, the power of tiny
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  rituals.
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  You know, we often think about these big massive, you know, the Olympic opening
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  ceremonies and, these massive things, that we do in our culture, and that can make us feel
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  afraid to approach this as a tool, especially in our teams.
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  But, you know, there's Again, actually from from the, medical field.
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  This is just what's on my mind, but at at at f Israel Deaconess, they had this terrible
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  occurrence of a wrong site surgery, in the OR where they they performed the the surgery on
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  the wrong part of the body.
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  And so they had to do this whole sweeping changes, or around their procedures.
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  And one of the procedures that they did that they instituted was this ritual called the
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  moment of reverence, which is right before the because after they've done the presurgery
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  checklist and all those functional things, but, by the way, are just as important.
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  Right?
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  Ritual's not magic.
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  It doesn't make everything happen.
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  Still gotta, you know, like I say, like, if you're onboarding someone, you still gotta tell
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  them where the bathroom is and what their computer password is.
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  You know?
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  You gotta get the stuff too.
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  But right before that, they, they make their first incision.
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  They actually take a moment where one of the nurses reads about the name of the patient
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  talks a little bit about their family history.
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  You know, are they a parent?
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  Are they a sibling?
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  What do they do?
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  And, and everyone in this in the OR is silent, for about a minute as they read about this
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  person and they just look at that individual.
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  And they found a study that had all this incredible effect on reducing, all these
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  different kinds of, or, mistakes and errors and the people who are interviewed who talk about
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  it say that, you know, it connects them to something bigger than just their job, just
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  another sort of, object on the table, but that this is a real human.
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  In front of them.
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  And that deserves and that the, the gravity of what it means to, to be trusted with their
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  health and with their safety.
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  So it can be as simple as just a minute of silence.
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  Right?
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  Like, and that too is available to us as, as a ritual.
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  And so I I I I like to give people a little freedom to to think, you know, it can be as
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  simple as lunch and a t shirt.
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  Absolutely.
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  And, you know, and Obviously, like, you know, I hadn't thought of it in the context of, you
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  know, in in the coaching or clinical realm at that point.
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  I was just trying to have these ten people who I think had poison darts in their basements
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  that were, you know, gonna take out the new leader.
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  I just wanted them to come along because truly my heart was open.
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  With wanting to have them recognize that I'm there to see each and every one of their value.
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  But unfortunately, the, you know, the shoes that I was stepping into It had been a rough
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  road for this team.
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  Right?
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  So it made so much sense after the context, Ezra, because then I realized why should I be
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  given trust after they've been through so many things.
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  Right?
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  I had to really, really dig deep in order to demonstrate that Really?
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  I'm re you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm different.
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  I really care about what we're doing, and we're it's they're all clinicians as well.
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  But then on until and it took I should I should con contextualize it a couple of years before
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  we can act least start to gel again, you know, dritty gel and really, work on optimal
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  functioning within the units, but, you know, it's it's it's interesting because we'd I think
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  we probably do, and that's why I love this this topic.
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  We probably underestimate the value of some of the things like you said.
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  Like, if you let it leave it for it to go awry, there are rituals that get developed that are
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  not so functional, which I'd like to talk a little bit more mode too.
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  Yeah.
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  And, you know, the other thing that I would, I would pick out from that as well in this, this
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  excellent example, you know, is that We often we we often we often, Are we we're often so
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  involved in the work that we're doing.
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  We're so heads down in the work that we're doing that we we never really take the
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  opportunity to slow down and lift it is actually important.
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  And so, you know, you could have spent that next 3 years doing exactly what you do, telling
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  people, you matter.
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  I'm different.
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  Right?
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  And and doing all sorts of things functionally.
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  Like, listening to them when they come to you with a problem.
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  Like, all this stuff that, you know, because you're a good leader, you know how to do.
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  But if you never take the opportunity to step back and to to to name what it is that you're
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  doing and to create a shared experience around it that lifts it up as important.
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  Like, this is so important to be communicating to you that I'm different and that I'm here for
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  us to be and function as a team and to take those poison arrow darts and, you know, and and
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  throw them throw them away or, like, I don't know.
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  Transform them into I don't I don't have a good example here, but, you know, if if we don't
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  take that opportunity, we might not never we we might not ever realize that it is actually
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  important and special to do so.
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  And so what I really encourage leaders is, you know, whatever work that you're doing, you're
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  putting so much work into it already.
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  So take the extra couple minutes.
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  Take the lunch break to slow down long enough to actually elevate it.
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  It's a it's a it's a it doesn't always just magically do the work for you, but it's often
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  an exponential fact that will increase the impact of what you're already doing to have a
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  more significant impact on their lives.
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  So really we go to the space.
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  Right?
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  And and with my new book, I talk a lot about the impact of awareness, right?
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  Like so, you know, Ultimately, businesses all have to make money.
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  They have shareholders, all that kind of stuff, but but if a leader, takes the time to really,
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  really, sit in awareness and and stake or become connected or stay connected to who they
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  are and what they value and how they want to express that, of which rituals would be a good
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  way to do that or to have a that, involved in kind of their space.
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  People get an outward extension, implicit or explicit about what they value and how they
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  want people to see them or experience them, right?
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  But again, if you're go go go go go and you're not stopping very often, you know, because
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  you're concerned about the next quarter and those types of things.
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  You're gonna miss some valuable, valuable moments, potentially for people to get
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  connected based on something that you could develop, that could be quite simple.
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  Yeah.
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  You know, rituals, I think, 2 of the most important elements to a ritual being successful
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  are intention and attention.
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  And, you know, and I I I hear in that awareness as well, bringing your bringing your full
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  attention to the moment and having a clear purpose of what you're what you're bringing to
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  the moment your intention.
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  And, And if we, we, we leave those out, we can find ourselves going through all kinds of
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  motions that we're that aren't actually what we want to be doing or who we really believe that
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  we are, you know, and and and rituals I sort of said earlier, they, they help us zoom in and
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  really see and look at what we're doing and hold it with the most precious thing that we
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  have to offer to the world, which is our time and attention.
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  We can slow down long enough.
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  It's the difference between just, you know, shoveling down your food and taking if not a
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  breath or 3 breaths to find a space of gratitude before eating.
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  And we know from the studies have transformational that is how transformational
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  gratitude can be.
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  And so and it's just a thought in the mind.
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  It's just a little awareness.
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  It's just a little attention.
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  And it can truly transform us and transform the people around us.
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  So let's say you're a new leader and you're not you know, what kind of things should I be
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  thinking if I'm a new leader?
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  And I'm coming, you know, I'm, you know, I've learned everything in leadership school or and
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  things like that.
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  But I wanted to kind of, understand culture and create a culture of connection what kind of
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  things should these these newer leaders consider in reference to some of the things
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  that you talked about in reference to organizational kind of change or context.
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  Oh, gosh.
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  That's such a big question.
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  I feel like we need a whole other hour, just to really dig in to all all that.
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  And and it's so context specific, which is probably part of why that is a complex question
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  because it really matters, you know, What kind of organization is?
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  What are you doing?
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  You know, how many employees, all that kind of stuff really matters?
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  You know, the few things that I would really call people's attention to off the top of my
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  head is one.
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  The whole sort of bring your whole self to work thing is such a funny statement because, like,
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  where are you chopping off your arm and leaving it in car, like, your whole self is there
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  whether you like it or not.
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  Right?
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  And and, you know, a workplace is a human place.
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  And a human place is an emotional space.
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  So, you know, I love that that Brene Brown quote, leaders must either invest a reasonable
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  amount of time attending to fears and feelings or squander an unreasonable amount of time
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  trying to manage ineffective and unproductive behavior.
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  So lean in to the vulnerability to the current to the fear, to the feelings.
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  You know, don't try to create this myth of disembodied, you know, robotic, atomic ons as
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  your employees.
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  They're human.
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  Attended that speak to it, especially if you're new.
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  Recognize that if your new changes happen, there's law since in the room.
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  There's anxiety in the room.
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  Speak directly to it.
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  Don't be afraid of that.
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  Have the have the courage to address it head on.
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  I would encourage new leaders to really try to tap in and and and go through a process of of
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  visioning the most important.
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  No more than 3 values.
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  Of themselves personally and of the organization, try to start to understand what
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  the connection between those might be.
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  And I would really encourage leaders to invest in a ground up approach.
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  I I often say, you know, rituals need to be invitations, not obligations.
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  And so if you're sort of doing things to your employees or forcing them to, like, here's this
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  another meditation thing that you're required to go to on Mondays because it's good for your
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  mental health.
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  That's just gonna become one more obligation that you're boss is telling you to do and
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  you're gonna resist it in your even if you're there in your body, your mind, you're gonna
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  check out because you wanna resist that.
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  And so create a ground up approach that enables the employees that you're working with to have,
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  agency in the process of determining, you know, the the values that embody the culture and and
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  what it is those what the values they want it to be.
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  And so that the eventual rituals that emerge from that will be You know, they'll they'll be
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  stickier.
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  They'll have, longer legs to walk, in, in through the life of the organization because
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  it's not just gonna be happening to them, but happening from them.
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  And I would think that when you're working with, employees, there has to be a certain
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  level of trust for them to be open for rituals as well.
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  Like, if there's
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  a Absolutely.
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  Because, you know, if you're gonna create something together, then you're gonna need
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  everybody bringing what different ideas or perspectives of how how the ritual would get
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  developed.
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  Right?
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  So are there certain ingredients that's basically a part like a developed Is there a
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  recipe?
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  And I know I'm being very basic here about how you formulate a ritual.
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  Yeah.
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  For what it's worth, trust, so important.
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  And, you know, if there isn't trust in the organization, there's there's nothing that
• 20:33
  you're gonna build on that ground that will stand.
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  It will all sink into the into the the hole that is a mistrust within an organization, and
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  and that's your first thing that you definitely need to address.
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  There's no recipe and I and in fact, I I really resist that kind of mentality when it comes to
• 20:55
  ritual, the, what I call the do this, feel that kind of rituals, but it's very transactional.
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  You know?
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  You know, you Google online, and that's mostly what you find.
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  5 rituals to go to bed earlier, like, that kind of stuff.
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  It's very transactional.
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  It doesn't actually meet people where they are.
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  There is, my design process called the ritual lines, which are really 8 lenses to look any
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  experience, any questions, to look at an experience, for creative inspiration I would
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  say though, you know, trying to start really at the top, top, top of the funnel for people as
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  as wide as I can.
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  The the first thing to really focus on is, you know, what's your goal?
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  What's your purpose?
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  What what what are you what are you trying to achieve?
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  With this ritual, get clear on your intention.
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  So, I, I call it the 3 p's, purposeful, particular, and personal So why are you doing
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  this, which is your purpose?
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  Why are you doing this?
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  Your your personal connection to this ritual?
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  And why are you doing this?
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  This particular thing of all the things, you know, to do a ritual why are you lighting
• 22:06
  candles?
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  So many things you could do, why candles?
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  So get clear on your intention, and then consider differentiation, the concept that
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  rituals, like I said, at the top, of our conversation, you know, rituals elevate
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  something as in special, important, or meaningful, and and the way that they do that
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  is they differentiate from the norm.
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  So think about whatever it is, the normal thing that you're doing.
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  What if the normal thing is we start meetings by 5 minutes of idle chit chat as we wait for
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  people to get on.
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  And, and then someone says, okay.
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  We're ready and they just dive in.
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  If that's your norm, do you differentiate from that?
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  Does, does each employee, you know, once a week, get to choose the music that you listen
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  to for those 5 minutes.
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  Is there a short, reading that gets done, that, you know, you're reading a book over the next,
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  you know, year and 5 minutes a day, you know, you read at the top of the meeting.
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  Is there, yeah, what are the ways in which you can differentiate from the norm?
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  And that's where I would start for anybody designing a new ritual.
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  I like that.
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  Just so just being a bit different, not being over the top, if you've you know, not been
• 23:22
  doing anything, but just to start with little incremental bits, and getting people involved
• 23:27
  in it in in kind of what you know, what have they seen, what have they tried, you know, what
• 23:32
  has not worked, maybe potentially too, as they, you know, like, don't redo the things that, you
• 23:37
  know, kind of blew up.
• 23:39
  Right?
• 23:39
  Don't try to iterate off it and and try to, you know, resuscitate some of it just, you know,
• 23:44
  but to get people's feedback.
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  But again, that's like, to your point, intention with attention.
• 23:51
  I love that because that that's what we're really saying is, okay, I'd liked for us to be,
• 23:56
  let's say, more productive because after the brutal quarter, after 3rd quarter, we kinda we
• 24:04
  need that downtime.
• 24:05
  So maybe, you know, designing something that allows people to to honor that space.
• 24:11
  Maybe before they go back to, you know, go back to optimal functioning again or whatever.
• 24:16
  Like, how do you maybe celebrate those types of things?
• 24:18
  So I I think I I hear what you're saying.
• 24:20
  That makes a lot of a lot a lot of sense.
• 24:24
  Now, Ezra, this has been amazing.
• 24:27
  I've I've learned so much today.
• 24:29
  I I love, you know, I I love the trip.
• 24:31
  I've gotta tell you a story because I'm from Trinidad and So carnival, I don't know if
• 24:39
  you've ever heard about carnival, but in Trinidad, it's it's Trinidad known for as be
• 24:43
  having one of the big biggest carnivals other than Rio and, Margaret in in New Orleans.
• 24:51
  But, you know, it's it's funny, right, because my culture, even though my background is in in
• 24:55
  the middle eastern is is very, very African because I grew up in the cultural context of
• 25:00
  what Caramel was.
• 25:01
  So carnival got formulated, in the in the Caribbean because when slavery was abolished,
• 25:08
  what happened was that the slaves when, they would see the Regalian bulls and stuff with the
• 25:15
  French.
• 25:16
  The slaves would take dye Right?
• 25:20
  And paint their skins.
• 25:21
  And I don't know if you've ever seen any of the massive costumes that exist, but they're just
• 25:27
  phenomenal.
• 25:28
  Like, I mean, these are like, you know, 50 feet, you know, wide and, you know, 30 feet
• 25:32
  high, and it's very, very intricate.
• 25:34
  And You know, I just feel like when I listen to you and I think about the ritual, like, I love
• 25:39
  carnival.
• 25:39
  Like, it sure not that we call it, playing math So this is something that came out of such
• 25:45
  adversity but has become something so phenomenally beautiful where there's themes
• 25:51
  that came out of of you know, such adversity.
• 25:54
  And then, of course, what the safes did as well was they cut these teal drums, which carried
• 26:00
  oil And that's what the steel pan became.
• 26:03
  The only kind of acoustic instrument in the 20th century.
• 26:07
  So when I think about it, and, you know, I hadn't thought about this as much other than I
• 26:12
  met you and we start to talk a little bit.
• 26:14
  How valuable sometimes rituals are.
• 26:17
  Now it become it's basically they call it a street fit, but really if you look at the
• 26:21
  inception of out of something so adverse right, came something so phenomenal and and it's a
• 26:29
  ritual that that it's basically that you can take your power back and, you know, have
• 26:35
  freedom on on that particular 2 days in Trinidad.
• 26:38
  And so I wanted to just share that with you because it's, you know, and I a deconstructing
• 26:43
  that would probably be such an amazing thing.
• 26:45
  So I'm probably gonna look at your eight questions and think about that because I think
• 26:49
  that would be really, really help me understand from that cultural context.
• 26:53
  So I just felt like I needed to share that with you, and it's amazing that some rituals can
• 26:58
  come out of such pain as well.
• 27:00
  But that it help us heal from so so many, probably sometimes unspeakable things through
• 27:06
  history as well.
• 27:08
  Yeah.
• 27:09
  Thank you for bringing bringing that up and bringing that in.
• 27:12
  We we we often turn to ritual because of their power.
• 27:17
  In moments of deep crisis and trauma.
• 27:21
  You know, one of the, the examples I'd love to, to point that is, you know, is taking moments
• 27:27
  of silence after national tragedies and the way that that has become both, and, and can be such
• 27:34
  a powerful ritual in some context and and and often so rote and feels like.
• 27:40
  So disconnected from what that real intention is.
• 27:43
  And, you know, one of the ritual lines is story.
• 27:46
  And what is the, What is the framing for this virtual?
• 27:51
  What is the history that it comes from?
• 27:55
  What is it?
• 27:56
  What is it connected to?
• 27:57
  And and I I love learning that about carnival because now, you know, if I'm ever in a
• 28:03
  carnival space knowing that history, right, knowing that story, that ritual has just
• 28:08
  deepened in meaning for me.
• 28:10
  I might still enjoy it if I didn't know that.
• 28:12
  I might still have a good time, and the costumes are awesome.
• 28:14
  And that was such a special day, and I could feel that But knowing that having that line
• 28:21
  added, that line of story added just deepened its meaning to me.
• 28:25
  And And and what it sounds like as well is that it's this ritual has also become a tradition.
• 28:32
  And and traditions are these actions that gain meaning through repetition So the first time
• 28:37
  you do something, it's still a ritual.
• 28:39
  Right?
• 28:39
  It doesn't need to be repeated in order to be a ritual.
• 28:42
  The first time, you know, My my colleague Casper says, you know, every every tradition
• 28:47
  started as an innovation.
• 28:49
  So the first time part of all ever happened, it was still a ritual.
• 28:53
  But through its repetition over time, year after year, and all the people who have
• 28:59
  connected to it and participated in it, And then your repetition of that ritual seeing it
• 29:04
  again and again and your connection to its story and the culture and the past all that has
• 29:09
  deepened its meaning over time.
• 29:11
  So I I'd love that example.
• 29:13
  Well, and I, you know, I think about it as as we wrap up to if we really think of the context
• 29:20
  of a of a culture and and the story part of it, right?
• 29:23
  Like, like, based on the environments, why was this company started?
• 29:28
  What what would the co founders or founders vision and how are they reusing the narrative,
• 29:34
  to be able to to move this along, right?
• 29:36
  Because again, bigger companies get that those things don't get passed on.
• 29:42
  It's kinda like if you're if you're in a startup, or a smaller to mid sized company,
• 29:46
  there's more opportunity to hear that.
• 29:48
  But as companies get bigger, they become a little bit more disconnected.
• 29:53
  Maybe global, but ultimately, you know, not forgetting the beginnings I think is very very
• 30:00
  important and it sounds like That's something with rituals that, like you said, at first,
• 30:05
  it's innovation because it's new.
• 30:07
  And then it'd be through repetition, it becomes ritual, and then it becomes tradition with
• 30:11
  time.
• 30:11
  Right?
• 30:11
  So if companies look at that as a lens as really ultimately, if people know the value of
• 30:19
  the company and why it exists in the context that it does, then, you know, ultimately you're
• 30:25
  demonstrating things which connection brings, like, I will say, you know, I say ROR versus
• 30:31
  ROI, which is people get connected And guess what?
• 30:35
  We all want to be the best versions of ourselves in the context of what we do day to
• 30:39
  day.
• 30:40
  Yeah.
• 30:41
  I love that.
• 30:41
  You know, was just at the Gusto headquarters, in San Francisco, and I saw that they, you
• 30:48
  know, they have a a shoeless office.
• 30:52
  And when you walk into the entrance, if things like large cubby, holes with, people's shoes
• 30:59
  and slippers, you know, put there and a whole sort of box of socks, if you're a guest and you
• 31:06
  don't have slippers.
• 31:07
  And the story is that the co founders started in their living room, which was, you know, a a
• 31:14
  a shoeless place.
• 31:15
  It was their home.
• 31:16
  So they started the company without shoes on.
• 31:19
  And, there was something about that that really spoke to their values of of of what Gusto
• 31:25
  stands for.
• 31:25
  That's symbolic.
• 31:26
  Right?
• 31:26
  It's bigger than what it is, but they, as they grew, they wanted to be a a shoeless office.
• 31:31
  And so each employee when they get hired, they get, like, a slippers budget, you know, to buy
• 31:37
  your own slippers for the office.
• 31:39
  And what I also learned is that over time now to your point, as it grows and with multiple
• 31:44
  offices and multiple places, that's becoming less and less of a tradition at the offices.
• 31:51
  And more and more people are wearing shoes, and it's becoming more and more optional, and it's
• 31:55
  sort of this ancient kind of story that exists a little bit in the past, but it's cute and
• 32:00
  some we talk about it and And it's at the entrance, so you see it, but, it's not lived,
• 32:07
  win, and lived with as much as it used to be.
• 32:09
  And and that is part of the challenge, how do you continue as you grow, you know, if
• 32:15
  anything, the the need becomes even even bigger because with more and more people trying to
• 32:21
  bring more and more people into singular vision, and connected to singular values, you
• 32:27
  need more powerful rituals and more significant rituals to do so.
• 32:32
  And I know that it's possible because look at any country in the world.
• 32:36
  Look at any religion in the world with billions of followers.
• 32:39
  So it is very possible.
• 32:41
  It's not, you know, it's it's a challenge, but, know, look at the I voted stickers, here in the
• 32:47
  states.
• 32:48
  The election is coming up.
• 32:50
  There's all these studies that show the increase and voter participation that just
• 32:54
  getting, 2¢, you know, sticker at the at the voting booth is helping create.
• 33:04
  So, you know, what is that?
• 33:05
  It doesn't help me vote at all.
• 33:06
  It's functionally useless, but it does help me show my civic value and connect to other people
• 33:12
  when I see the stickers around.
• 33:14
  Oh, yeah.
• 33:14
  That's right.
• 33:15
  And there's probably some social as well.
• 33:18
  That comes along to it.
• 33:19
  But, oh, I get to post on it.
• 33:20
  I make this.
• 33:21
  Yeah.
• 33:22
  For sure.
• 33:23
  Right.
• 33:23
  I I take this I take this private action, and I create a more public shared experience with it
• 33:29
  because I get to post it on social media.
• 33:31
  So it is possible to do large scale ritual.
• 33:37
  And I truly believe that it will help us change the world in the directions that we want.
• 33:43
  Lasser, this has been amazing.
• 33:45
  I just have to thank you so much for sharing, you know, this wisdom.
• 33:50
  I'm sure people are I've learned a lot today, and I know I have.
• 33:54
  So for people wanting to get a hold of you, to have a chat or to have you speak or or or any
• 34:01
  of the other things that you do, where where can people get a hold of you?
• 34:05
  Well, thanks so much.
• 34:06
  Thank you for hosting this conversation.
• 34:09
  And for everyone listening.
• 34:10
  Thank you for listening.
• 34:11
  I appreciate you.
• 34:12
  I don't know you.
• 34:13
  I haven't met you, but I do appreciate you.
• 34:16
  If you'd to reach out.
• 34:17
  My website is ritualist.life.
• 34:20
  That's a ritualist.life, and my email is ezarette ritualist dot life.
• 34:26
  And my social media is is, Instagram is ritual underscore IST.
• 34:31
  You'll find me as rebookman, b o o k m a on a lot of other handles.
• 34:36
  So, find me, DM me, reach out.
• 34:39
  I love just geeking out on rituals.
• 34:42
  And I also love helping people.
• 34:45
  So, I'd love to hear from you.
• 34:47
  And if you've got any questions or if you've got some great ritual examples from your own
• 34:51
  company or from your own work life, like to share, writing a book right now, and I'd love
• 34:55
  to include them.
• 34:56
  So, I would love to hear from you.
• 34:59
  Awesome.
• 34:59
  Awesome.
• 35:00
  You're writing a book.
• 35:01
  That's amazing.
• 35:03
  So what am I taking away?
• 35:05
  I think, you know, I like the line in, intention and attention.
• 35:11
  I love that So for as leaders, we really have to set the intention out there, and we need to
• 35:17
  take the time, to be introspective about what we're putting out there and how are we living
• 35:23
  the right values that allows people to understand what we're about and what we're
• 35:27
  trying to put forward So that's what I'm taking away today, Ezra.
• 35:31
  So for everyone, thanks again for tuning in.
• 35:34
  If you're wanting to know more, about, your authenticity and your relationships.
• 35:39
  You can go to my website, roxandorhodge.comforward/ quiz.
• 35:43
  You do a a really mini quiz.
• 35:45
  We send you back some, the status of where you are and with some next steps.
• 35:51
  Again, Ezra, thanks so much.
• 35:52
  And everyone will chat again with you next week.
• 35:55
  Take care.
• 35:57
  Thanks for tuning to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 36:02
  healthy change.
• 36:04
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 36:10
  rocksandirhaj.com/blueprint.
• 36:14
  We'll see next time on authentic living with Roxanne.