Latest / SHeCOMMERCE / Episode 28: From Ambition to Authority - Kelly Miller on Women, Commerce, and Owning the Room at ANY Age

Transcript

Episode 28: From Ambition to Authority - Kelly Miller on Women, Commerce, and Owning the Room at ANY Age · SHeCOMMERCE

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Don't do the work because you want to be successful.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do the work because you want to do the work.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think sometimes women get on a path of they are succeeding, but they're succeeding in something that they don't believe in.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: There was this amazing quote from Ann Hathaway, I want to be the most prepared person that comes across.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: And as long as I feel confident that I'm the most prepared I could possibly be, it almost doesn't matter what the outcome is because I know I gave it everything I could.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: I actually don't think you should bring your full self to work, but I just think you should bring your best self and your most college self that somebody in your personal life would recognize as you.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: That increases the authenticity.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Being a young female SVP is not just a career milestone.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's an experience.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're told to be warm but not soft.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're told to be leaders but not aggressive.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to She Commerce, everyone, uh, where power and real talk collide.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: See, I can do both.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can do both in the CPG world.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jackie.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Christina.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And today we have a guest who's basically the human version of don't let the polished LinkedIn title fool you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's a whole lot of grit and sass behind this.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because today we're joined by an SVP from Amia, which already sounds very impressive, very executive, right?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Please hold while I enter the boardroom.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: But what we love about her is that she represents something that we do not talk enough about.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what it actually feels like to become senior young.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because everyone says they want ambitious women, right?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: They do, until that ambitious woman is younger than they expected.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So before we get into all the details with our guest, Jackie from afar, let's spill a little tea.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: We know bias has not disappeared.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: It has just had um a rebranding.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be more obvious, and now it's a little more subtle.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: She's not quite ready.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: She needs more experience.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: She should build more confidence.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: She's great, but is she executive enough?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Translation.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: She's making us confront some of our own assumptions about who gets to lead and why.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And for younger women in senior roles, there's this extra layer.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: You have to prove yourself doubly because you're a woman, and you have to prove yourself uh triply, if that's a word, because you're a younger woman, right?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Often before the first agenda item.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And meanwhile, this the business world around us keeps saying it wants transformation.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: But transformation is uncomfortable because it doesn't arrive wearing the face that they're expecting it to.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have the age or the accent or the background or the gender or leadership that they want it to conform to.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the tension that we want to unpack today because commerce needs new leadership models.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Mia needs leaders who can navigate complexity.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And women do not wait until they have 30 years of scar tissue before they are allowed they are allowed to be taken seriously.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: But folks, our guest is not just impressive on paper.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: She's sharp, warm, commercially intelligent, commercially brilliant, deeply human, and quietly dangerous in the way that only very smart women are.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Am I right, folks?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: We have a hype team behind us, guys.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is the fabulous Kelly Miller, SVP at Amir Flywheel.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, that title is major, but what makes Kelly so compelling is not just that she's leading at a senior level across one of the most complex and diverse regions in e-commerce.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's that she has done this while navigating a version of bias that we do not talk about enough.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because everybody loves to celebrate young talent until young becomes senior talent.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Then suddenly the compliments get complicated.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: She's so impressive for her age.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: She's got great potential.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: She just needs a bit more gravitas.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: That seasoning that everybody wants to sprinkle on feedback when they're not quite ready to admit that a woman does not match the leadership archetype that they have in their head.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that is exactly why we're having this conversation with Kelly.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because being a young female SVP is not just a career milestone, it's an experience.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It means walking into rooms where people may underestimate you and likely do before you have even opened your laptop.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: It means learning how to hold authority without becoming cold, how to be confident without being labeled as difficult, and how to stay yourself in environments that often reward women for becoming smaller, safer, and more palatable.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And Kelly has done just that.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: She has built success with intelligence, resilience, clarity, and of course heart.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And she is also a proud advocate for women and diversity.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Not in the glossy, let's post something inspirational and call it progress way, but in the real way, the way that asks who gets access, who gets sponsored, who gets the visibility, who gets promoted, and who is actually in the room when those important decisions are being made.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: So today we're going to talk about Kaylee's journey, how she became successful, what she had to learn along the way, what biases looked like for her, and what leadership feels like when you are younger than people expect, but so much more ready than they realize.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: We'll also get into the state of women and diversity in today's landscape, what meaningful advocacy looks like right now, and how commerce needs to evolve if it wants leaders who do not all look, sound or lead the same.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Kelly Miller, SVP at Amia Flywheel, welcome to She Commerce.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for Abby.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's so exciting.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get down to the conversation.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: The human behind the title.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Kelly, when people see SVP at Amia for Flywheel, they see the polished version, but we want to know the real Kelly.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Who was Kelly before in the title?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what did you have to learn and unlearn or fight for to become the leader that you are today?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: I uh I'll go all the way, all the way back and say, so I was born and raised in Ohio.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and my father passed away when I was 10, but my mom was then uh raising three girls on her own.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I have two amazing older sisters, and we were all sort of going through this journey together of figuring out how to navigate a basically a female-only household and really try to find power in it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: But my mom was absolutely exceptional because I think she taught us how important it was to be able to figure it out without a man in our life, to have the independence to figure out how to be in rooms and be full people, uh, you know, and not have to sort of feel like we we didn't belong there.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um she also taught us like practical life skills about independence, uh, things like I learned how to like nail a photo on the wall before I was probably 15 and stuff like that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Little things that I realized were super valuable in my friendship groups as well.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because then when I went to college, I was uh a student athlete, so I played volleyball.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was super fortunate to have this amazing group of 10 women around me at all times who all had totally different skill sets and were all very equally as powerful in their own right.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it was amazing because I think it made me never question the fact that I was a female.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: I never once thought, okay, I'm a woman, so I have to do less because I had such powerful women around me.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that immediately was an advantage that I realized not many women uh around me had.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so then when I came into a leadership position, the leadership was almost always natural.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: It never was a could I be a leader and a woman?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was always just, well, we expect you to because you're only around women.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that's really helped me then not have to question it as frequently in my in my career uh now.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: What did uh Kid Kelly think that success would look like?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And does it feel like that now?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, I have no idea what Kid Kelly thought that success would look like.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I remember uh in my first, my first job out of college, um, I was doing very well.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember um a leader that was with me, he asked me, you know, what do you want to be when you grow up?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, as long as I'm helping people, whatever that looks like for me at whatever time in my life, I'll be really happy because I just want to feel like other people see value in me and feel like I am helping them do whatever it is that they're trying to do.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I still have that mentality now.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess that's probably what I felt back then too.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Even, you know, when I was on a volleyball team or like with friends in college, I felt great and successful if I was sewing a button on a teddy bear for them or something silly.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like it always made me feel really good to help others.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's still sort of what I drive when I think about what success looks like for me.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Kelly, you've obviously reached a very senior role at a stage in life where some people still expect women to be building towards that leadership and not already very much sitting in it.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share what it's been like becoming an SVP young, not just professionally, but maybe emotionally?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if you you touch on, you know, anytime you may have felt pressure to like overprove or overexplain, you know, your your leadership role at at this point in your life.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when I first started at Flywheel.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I was 23 when I started at Flywheel.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was expected to be the leader of retail in Europe.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And there were a couple instances, especially my first couple of years, where I would go into rooms with people who were in their career for the single company for longer than I had even had my own career, and were talking to me in ways of, you know, asking questions, asking me for my advice.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I a couple of times I would kind of voice that concern to people of, you know, it feels really hard to be in a leadership position right now because I am so young.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like people probably doubt that or doubt me because of it.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: And every single time I voiced that concern, people would say to me something along the lines of, no, they're more impressed because you're young, because you bring that in now at your age.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And at some point I think I started to believe it.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not, it's not in spite of my youth, but maybe and to a certain extent, it's because of my youth that I can feel confident in that way.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I I felt much more comfortable with that in time.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: It did not happen immediately, I would say, but you asked about the preparedness thing.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I still to this day am probably somebody who overprepares, but I also don't necessarily view it as this horrible thing.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I there's this, there was this amazing quote from Ann Hathaway, which sounds so silly, but Anne Hathaway was talking about, you know, how does she overcome imposter syndrome as an actress?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: And she says, I actually don't think I'm right for most of the roles that I take.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And she says to the effect of, I am just so committed to being the most prepared person in the audition.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be the most prepared person that comes across.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: And as long as I feel confident that I'm the most prepared I could possibly be, it almost doesn't matter what the outcome is because I know I gave it everything I could.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I still like really take that to heart anytime I am feeling uncertain or feeling nervous about something is I can control how much I am prepared for the moment.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the more I prepare, I think the more that I end up showing up.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think if I don't prepare, like my answers shrink, like everything about it, I get less confident.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I shorten my thoughts.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: I maybe get a little bit more vague because I'm not certain about it.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I try to over-prepare in a way that makes me feel confident.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm going into this situation, eyes wide open, and probably the best version of myself I can possibly be.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, from one over-prepare to another, I don't fault that at all.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, definitely.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: I see you.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's great.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that quote.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: We have to use that and have to lie.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I would like to say that I overprepare, but also I like seeing my pants.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: As you can then get to a certain point now, I I still overprepare for certain situations, but there's also plenty of points now where experience, there is a lot to say about it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot to be said about experience where you get to a point of going, okay, I know this enough that I don't need to continue to prepare.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when I first started, it was like, I don't know it enough.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to over-over-prepare to feel really good about what I'm doing now.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Build that confidence.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Completely.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we talk a lot about gender bias, and um but age bias against younger senior women has its own flavor.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: How have you experienced that kind of bias?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: What have you?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And how did you learn to navigate that?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what does it actually sound like in real life?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so in my first role, uh previous to fly while I was at uh another company, and I, when you asked this question, I remembered thinking specifically about this time that I had where I, without sort of um asking for permission and without getting anybody along the journey with me, I sent submitted a huge proposal um for an idea that I had.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And when I submitted it, I got radio silence from the entire email.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was like six or seven people on the email and nobody responded, but I got a phone call.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then on the other line was this older gentleman who said, You are so young.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know what this looks like yet.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember just feeling so crushed in the moment because I in now I look back at it and I'm like, I have changed the way that I take this type of feedback now.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: At the time, I was just like, I've screwed everything up, you know, I'm not capable of doing this and I'm never going to do this again.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And now when I get certain feedback back like that, or something sort of in that same flavor, I'm like, that's actually not helpful feedback.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Can you be more specific about what should have been different?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because otherwise, you're not gonna help me get to my goal.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I almost like called an odd on their bullshit way of saying, you know, you're he just went out there and said it was there was no sugar coating it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and what I should have asked at the time was, if you were going to submit this, what would you have done differently?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let me learn from this experience.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I never really did that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: But now I think I take it into whenever I am with a a new manager or working with somebody for the first time, like I always I joke about it enough with my team.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: They've heard this enough.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: But like I started working with my uh previous boss and we worked together for six years.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: And about two years into our relationship, I said, I am now at a point in my career where I need you to start attacking my character.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that in such like a silly way, and that sounds that sounds ridiculous.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: But what I meant by it was I think there's a lot of things to your point, a lot of things that um people try to give you feedback about your youth or your lack of gravitas and stuff.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, I want you to be very specific.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so now he is at a point where he is going, I didn't like it when you use that word.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: You should have used this word instead, or what he's way more precise.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so it gets rid of the fluffy, yeah, shitty feedback that you can't actually grow from and gets it a lot more um practical.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so I do that with a lot of people that I work with because I know that the alternative is never getting that feedback.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then people are in rooms outside of you sharing something like, you know, is she really ready for this or whatever?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really try to make sure that everybody around me knows that they have permission to tell me that and that I can take it.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's helped them also grow their approach to me.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I love that because what you're doing is you're looking for direct ways to continuously improve.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that when you're not in the room, people understand that you are the right person still.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, right?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I love that too.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I also have to I remember so vividly, like the you're you're not seasoned enough.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like the whole seasoned, what is that?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And like I love that you called them out and you're like, what do I actually do with that feedback?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like and like I've seen other people make these same mistakes in their 10, 15 years in their career.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's because nobody actually ever said to them, don't approach it that way, approach it this way.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: They just said, with more experience, you'll understand the different way to approach it.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, no, tell me now how to approach it.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: I can fix it now.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you give me something practical, and you know, maybe in 15 years I'll make an even better proposal because I learned how to get past this hurdle.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe the problem is that there was nothing wrong with your proposal.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: They suggest we link rush that they just didn't think of it.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, felt threatened.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's talk about this trap for women in leadership that we're told to be confident but not arrogant, right?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're told to be warm but not soft.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're told to be leaders but not aggressive.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're direct but not harsh.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: All all the um contradictions, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Strategic but still likable.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, you have to lead perfectly while being essentially universally adored.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no pressure.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: No pressure.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: How have you found your own leadership style without becoming some corporate robot version of yourself to conform to all of these uh demands?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and I'd like to interject.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: There working with Kelly, there's no robotness.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I can tell.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's very sweet because I I do think it's something that I think you have to work at it to find what type of leader you want to be.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not the same leader, probably year over year over year.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: My leadership style is changing slightly, of course, but I wanted to figure out how to navigate political situations without being political.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And like, and I think that's a really, really hard thing to do.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: I've always thought about what are the characteristics that people in my personal life like about me and how do I make sure that they continue to translate.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so my sort of like barometer is if I had my partner, my mom, my sisters, like somebody super close to me who really, really knows me well, shadowing me at work for a day, would they still be proud to be like, yeah, that's that's my person?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like I, and that's I really try to remember that because I think if I if I know that they would be proud, then it's like that, then I'm probably translating my personal into professional in the right way.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: I maybe controversially, I actually don't think you should bring your full self to work, but I just think you should bring your best self and your most polished self that somebody in your personal life would recognize as you without feeling like they're, you know, having some horrible mask in front of pretend.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I still try to do that today.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't always nail it, I would say, but Yeah, I mean, nobody's perfect, but I think the fact that you are intent on doing that says a lot.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's interesting what you just said, because we do hear a lot of leaders say, oh, bring your full self to work.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and sometimes that may get confused with authenticity.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: What does it mean to be authentic and have authentic leadership?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you just said, I actually don't think if you bring your full self, you should bring your best self.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can you maybe just touch on that nuance?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, are there parts of yourself that, you know, maybe you once thought you had to hide at work that now you bring, or maybe you you don't bring?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think I used to really hide any evidence of vulnerable build vulnerability.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think a lot of people do that, especially women, is you know, you can't share something personal that's going on, or I I'm not afraid now to share more personal things about me.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I've what I've found is that increases the authenticity, but I always um try to think of it as like, you don't have to know everything.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not sharing every bad thing that's happening in my life, but I am sharing the things that I think are most relevant or helpful to the team.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: So for example, I was going through fertility treatments for like three months and I was honest with the team about why and saying, you know, you might have to step in and help me during those three months.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you I might need some support, I might not be as sort of present in the office.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: These are some of the things that you should look out for.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I had three people message me and say, thank you for being honest about that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like, you know, my wife wasn't able to be honest in her job and it affected performance, or it made it way more easy for them to sort of step in and help me, no questions asked.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that was a really deliberate decision for me because there were also times when I had hit it and I think it affected people's view of me.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's a being vulnerable to a point where you don't have to share everything, but you do have to share the things that make people feel like, okay, I actually understand this person beyond just, you know, beyond just the the day-to-day with them.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And for some people, maybe that's sharing about their children or their partner or their dog or whatever, but like being able to share something that makes it make more sense to work with them.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I've now found is like being more authentic.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's no like textbook answer that says you have to share X, Y, this much, or that it's very tailored to you and your comfort level.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, I I totally agree.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So let's pivot a little and talk about the commerce in Chicago's.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: You are the SVP for probably one of the most on the Western side of things, but one of the most uh diverse regions, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: You there that you have it is basically the espresso martini of complexity.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: You have the chaos of caffeine and the madness of alcohol in it.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: How can you tell me what great commerce leadership requires from you in the management of all of that?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it requires me to be extremely agile and to make sure that the team is as well.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I we talk a lot about in the team about being resilient.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if I if I were being honest, I think every single week of my career, especially in the last year or two, there has been a major change, major change in the industry, major change in our team.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember like a month ago, there was another major change that happened.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: And my boss called me and like sat me down and tried to explain it to me.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, You don't have to convince me.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is just another week, and it's another change, and it's totally mine.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, I think then my job is obviously to translate it to a team in a way that into the team that is in a way that doesn't feel like I'm spinning it, you know, spinning negative news into positive or something.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: But what I think is absolutely critical in my role is to be able to show them you can manage change, you can be resilient through change.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Here are maybe some tools and everything.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: But like being very clear is the expectation is that you can do it and setting that example of, you know, I'm not thrown by this change.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to be either, or I am thrown by this change, but here's what I'm gonna do about it, and being as honest as possible.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: But that agility, I think, is the only way that we're gonna survive right now because there's so much changing in the industry.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Much change.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Can we prink with shirts just another week, just another change?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was whatever, like I'll be fine.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and but I think it's so funny because I think if you I think I try to translate that to my team as a you guys can cope with this too.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is not that big of a deal because if if you translate it in any other way, the team translates it at this must be a huge deal.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's it's coming up with that understanding and feeling secure in the understanding of it's okay, we're gonna get through this change together, just another week, just another change.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: But you also do that though, across multiple um in multiple cultural references because different um cultures within Europe or and and the Middle East, they they adapt to change or they accept change in different ways.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and you have to do that.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You have to translate your it's just another, it's just another day of the office, seamlessly.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I really try to keep the message as straightforward as possible so that it can then be interpreted by people within that culture in the way that I would want it to be.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like the the obvious is not using complex words, not using, you know, uh metaphors that are not gonna translate.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sports metaphors are huge in the US, they're not so huge in, you know, France or whatever.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: And like they're everybody is gonna be, yeah, everybody's gonna be taking it differently.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I try to keep it very simple.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I also try to make sure that I look at all the different diverse aspects of our culture and see if I can find somebody within each that I'm like, hey, did this translate well with your team?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Did do you think they understood it?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think they feel comfortable with it?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because if they, if somebody who is willing to be candid with me says, yes, you've got it, you know, but they all understand it, no problem, great.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: But if they don't, then I can actually have them help me fine-tune the message.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's really critical too when we're when we're dealing with a lot of change, but also a lot of different literal languages, but also different languages in terms of style of managing change.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, wouldn't it be great if all the brands did this, like double checked before they ads that are sometimes so inappropriate?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just that check-in, so important.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, we're we're gonna change gears again.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you are a proud advocate for women and diversity.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we want to ask this honestly in your opinion, in today's landscape, do you feel like companies are actually moving forward?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think they're standing still or quietly maybe backing away from the hard work of advocacy for women and diversity?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think in our industry, they're definitely not backing away.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's funny because so uh three weeks ago, I was at a leadership uh conference or summit that the uh Omnicom team puts together.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it's with Harvard professors.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a Harvard professor there who her focus is on um power dynamics and specifically uh diversity, women, you know, what is the power dynamic?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that we looked at was um percentage of people who have a network that is majority not their gender, essentially.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: So the natural um the natural inclination is that so 10 years ago, most women, their superior group, their superior network was all men.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's starting to shift lower.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but when I was looking at the percentages, it was kind of low in terms of like the actual shift was slower than I personally would have liked to see it.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I said to them, is that what you expect?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or did you expect it to happen faster?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: And they said, actually, this is about right.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like the research shows that this is a pretty typical change in power dynamics, and it's not that surprising.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't know if that's reassuring or not.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like obviously I want it to be faster, but it was interesting to understand is our industry and our uh organization specifically, we were we were changing just slightly faster than the average that she was showing, which is great.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: So great for Omnikom, great for us as it's as a team, but equally that the industry is changing.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: All of her research is showing that we are getting more diverse, we are increasing our gender divide and everything.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that we can feel comfortable with that, even if we all want it to be faster.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: So slowly, just we're making progress, just maybe not as fast as we like.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that's energy brow change.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time, right?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and what would you say are some of the conversations that leaders need to have, um, even if it makes people uncomfortable?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are some of those topics that we need to be still advocating for and talking about and bringing into the room so that we can continue and maybe accelerate the pace of change?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the things that I started to do in my role, and I don't know if it's, you know, if it's happening elsewhere, great.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure in HR groups it probably is, but one of the things that I specifically look at is when we're going through um promotions, merit increases, I look at the the pay gaps between men and women, the pay gaps between different levels, the pay gaps between different um minority groups in our team to make sure that we're actually in a fairly stable place, that we're not too, you know, going one way or the other, essentially.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I see that happening too when we're in the room, we're questioning like, do we have enough women?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do we have enough that people of color?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Do we have enough this or that in these certain groups?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, we'll choose a panel and we'll go, ooh, that is four white men and shit, and kind of, you know, go back through and do it again.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think those are the things that do feel pretty uncomfortable in the moment that I've started to feel very comfortable with.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, even things like this person is on maternity leave, are we gonna promote them and stuff?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: We've chosen to do those things as well.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if you have people in those roles who are aware of it, at the very least they can check for it and then influence the changes long term.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we're trying to do.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: But also one of the things you do, I love that I can say this because I know Kelly, but one of the things you do is you raise the awareness of these issues because the people in the room may not have thought about it.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're so used to the same old sample.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that is just as important.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: They may be allies, but oftentimes if if you don't experience it yourself, you don't think about it.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like my boss is a male, and I think we we worked really well together um building the team because you know, I would say to him, that did not translate well to any of the women in this room because they, you know, whatever it was, and he was super, super receptive and very, very careful, um, always about that.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: But there were definitely times where I would give him feedback and go, hey, this is really awkward, but that definitely isn't how that should have played out, or you know, have you noticed that you're speaking to the women this way and the men this way and stuff like that?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: And calling them out.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but but it wasn't, he was super receptive though.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it was he's a good guy.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's a great guy.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that he But even with good people, sometimes it's like unconscious.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I love that you are comfortable enough to be like, hey, actually, you might want to rephrase that, or like this is how it might be interpreted, which I know is not your intent.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's great to be able to offer that feedback and someone be willing to accept it.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: He's a a great debater.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: And what I mean by that is he likes to debate to sort of figure out the answer to a question.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: And what I noticed in this example specifically, what I noticed was the men were not afraid to debate.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: But the women, a lot of times, if he started to debate them, you would slowly see them, their answers would get shorter, they would get a little bit less confident in themselves.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because he's quite senior.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: He's quite senior, exactly.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: But the men would typically engage and go, no, no, I really believe in this idea.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I really, really believe in this idea.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or the women would go, maybe you're right.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Let me take a step back.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's I actually think neither one of those things is wrong to do, but his style was that.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had to sort of recognize that and go, it's not the wrong, it's not a wrong style, but maybe it's a we can lean in a little bit more and go, no, no, I believe in my idea.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Equally, maybe his approach changes slightly depending on the person on the other end.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's pivot uh again.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when people see successful women, they generally want the highlight reel, right?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want to know what the cost of getting to that success, achieving that success was about.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, Kelly, what did it cost you?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: What has it cost you?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Has it cost you um in terms of you know your sacrifice, your support, you know, to a point, even sometimes your self-worth, maybe even in the beginning.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say I I have given a lot to my career.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: And not everybody is going to make that choice as well.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I think my biggest sacrifice, even now, it's on a day-to-day level, is I leave most of my energy at work.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: So when I come home, most of the time I am depleted.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I don't mind that right now.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me, right now, that's that's the right sort of balance.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I'm still growing in my career, my partner and I don't have children.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: He's in the same place in his career.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it helps to make it so that it feels like it's right.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: So we both come home and we're both depleted going, oh my God, what are we gonna eat tonight for dinner or whatever?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't feel like you know, we're in two totally different spots.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that helps.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: But equally, that that sacrifice is because I don't have children.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I have uh I mentioned that volleyball team of women and they're all amazing.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: They all have a big career and they all have at least one child.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so for me personally, it's sort of looking at that and going, I guess that's a sacrifice, is maybe for me it's not right now.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I chose a very different path.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: I chose to move to another country.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: I chose to, you know, sometimes I am so depleted in energy, I don't even talk to my family.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are definitely trade-offs in my day-to-day life that I recognize for now, that's probably the right thing.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: Is it always going to be the right thing?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it will change, maybe that balance will be different long term.
• 33:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it's important to have that checking of yourself because what was okay maybe a couple of years ago may not feel the same way, you know, as you as you enter different stages of life.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we we want to talk about some advice, you know, leave leave the young women listening with some words of wisdom.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: We know that there are some young women listening that are ambitious, capable, maybe even a little impatient, and they're secretly wondering if they're allowed to go for that big role now, not in 10 years, not when everyone else is comfortable, but now.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: What would the what would be the advice you give to them?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe this would be taken in a slightly different way, but I would say don't do the work because you want to be successful.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: Do the work because you want to do the work.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: And what I mean by that is I think, I think right now we are all going, women should be succeeding and we should be doing all of these big things.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I totally agree with that.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I think sometimes women get on a path of they are succeeding, but they're succeeding in something that they don't believe in.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's so important that we continue to push for like, are you happy in this role?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Do we pivot you away from this thing?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know, do you want to find something different that could be better for you?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel energized about this?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because I do see a lot of people who wake up and they're in senior leadership roles and they're going, I don't want to go to work today.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like, if I felt like that, that would not be success to me.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think, I think it's really important to remember is like if you're passionate about it, that is going to translate into the next role.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to translate into the next thing.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: If you're passionate about it, not because you want a promotion or a raise, then I think you get to do raise your hand for things way more.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: You're raising your hand for things not because of that, but actually just because you want to do a really good job.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're doing that, I find that the success comes way faster.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I'm, I was raising my hand for stuff, not because I wanted a promotion.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was raising my hand for stuff because I was so excited to be able to do that stuff.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you really see that then at the more senior levels and the more senior I get, the more I experience that in myself and other people is thank God I like to do this work because I continue to do this work at higher levels.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's about allowing this the space for um choice, really, right?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and allowing yourself that choice.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: And not being afraid to go, actually, maybe this isn't the right workplace environment or the right industry or the right this or that, and not being able being afraid to switch.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, and maybe this is just anecdotally to me, I think men are better at identifying that than women.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're better at going, I don't really like this.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go do something else.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think women go, especially, especially highly motivated women.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think they go, oh God, but I'm on, I'm on the right track right now.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: What if I change and I'm like I go off the track and I'm going that, but you like the other track.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: So why not try it and you know not be afraid to sort of take a step back or sideways because of it?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Completely.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now we are going into our fast fire round, Kelly.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: So don't think, just answer the first question, the first uh thing that comes to your mind when we ask these questions.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I will start with what leadership rule you quietly broke and it works.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: I would say I broke the rule of sharing a how do I say this?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is a hard question.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I think the rule that I quietly broke was um seen waiting for somebody to tell me that it was time for me in a room.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if I was invited into a room, I think the obvious thing that you do is you sort of wait to be acknowledged in the room saying, Well, Kelly, what do you think?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I just started to go, if you invited me into this room, it's because you wanted me to say something, I assume.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if I speak up and you're not happy about that, then maybe you shouldn't have invited me in this room.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it took me a long time to get there, but now that's definitely where I am.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Even if I have the imposter syndrome of this isn't the right room, I'm going, you call me.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: I guess.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: So hearing my honesty.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, all right, next one.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: What's the worst advice you've ignored?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I had a boss when I first started who was hellbent on making me a smaller version of him, which sounds ridiculous.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: He's a man, I'm a woman.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: But even uh he I would ask people or you know, send an email and say, Hi, please, could you just do this thing?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And um he would go, Don't say please.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Don't tell people to say, or don't ask people when you ask people to do their job, don't say please, just tell them to do their job.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember thinking that is not the way to get this done.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that same thing in terms of like using the word just.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna use the word just because it to me builds sort of that like, hey, we have a back and forth.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: I acknowledge that, you know, I respect you, you respect me.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: So using softer words and language is definitely one of the things that I am not afraid to uh ignore the advice of like you have to be this way because I just don't believe that's true.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: One woman who has inspired you either personally or professionally.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are a lot of them.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um I was really inspired by um one of the, so this the leadership course I mentioned was over the course of two years.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was really inspired by this woman called Christina Wallace, who she wrote this book called The Portfolio Life.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: And the book talks about how um as people get more and more senior, they sort of stop, they sort of put all of their energy into their single career and their single industry.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: And she said the risk that you have then is that, you know, if you get fired or made redundant or something, that you lose your entire personality and your job in the same day.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so she wrote this book, The Portfolio Life, which is you take the time to understand who you are, regardless of the work you're doing, to maybe look at like, okay, if you get an opportunity to go into a totally new role, what would that role be based on the skills that you bring into every situation you're ever in?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I uh I really admired her because she does a lot of different things.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like she was like she's into music and she was like writing and directing a play, but she was also a data engineer and stuff.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: So she did all these different facets of her life.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I was really inspired by that.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I continue to be because I think about myself of giving my all to my career, but that also means doing things that maybe aren't immediately impactful to my job as SVP commerce.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love that the portfolio career.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: We've we've heard that.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yesterday with Alicia.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so that that's a thing.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: We need to all right.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Last fire uh question or lightning question is what is your go-to hype song?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I have a song.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's not not like a hype song in a like, yeah, I can do this way, but there's a song called Surround Me.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it is a very like, it makes me feel very light and airy.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I love it.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: So when I'm in a situation where I just like need to feel happy, that's what I'll go with.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's a very uh, it sort of like almost decompresses me and makes me feel like, yes, this is like I can do whatever I'm I'm going into.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know the song, do you?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're lucky.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that'd be stupid.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'll send it to you.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but I would say also I don't, if I'm like going into a big thing, I don't have a hype song, but I do have a motto.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: And my motto is I'm good at my job and I know what I'm doing.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I write it down like over and over and over again before I go into anything big.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Lines?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Literally like lines, like I'm a student.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't listen to music before anything big, but I do do that because I I'm I like I just need to remind myself why I'm here.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's great.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Kelly, this has been such a powerful conversation because you've reminded us that leadership is not about fitting in this perfect mold.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's about questioning who builds the mold in the first place.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe throwing it out entirely.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what we love about your story is that it gives permission, especially to younger women earlier in their careers, that they don't have to wait.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: They can stop waiting until they look like someone else's version of Ready, right?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or someone else's version or expectation of perfection.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because Reddy does not have to have gray hair, a much deeper voice, and 47 years of experience.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm never gonna have gray hair, just so we know.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes though, ready looks like those sharp instincts, the lived resilience that you spoke about, the the commercial chops, right?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the courage to keep showing up in those rooms that maybe were not originally designed for you and to speak up.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Kelly, thank you for bringing your voice, your heart, and the SVP spice into the conversation.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was so great.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode hits home for everyone listening, send it to that woman who needs to hear that ambition is not a character flaw.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Completely.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's data, it's direction, and it's power.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kelly, with every episode of She Commerce, we're building a growing network of female leaders and advocates.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we ask that you take the pledge with us to continue paying it forward, to amplify women's voices, and to continue to help shape the future of commerce.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Will you take that pledge?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take that pledge.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: And with that, all that's left for us to say is bold brands, fierce women, one sisterhood.