Latest / The Worship and Leadership Podcast / Character Before The Platform

Transcript

Character Before The Platform · The Worship and Leadership Podcast

0:11
SPEAKER_02: Hey, what's up, everybody, and welcome to the Worship and Leadership Podcast.
0:14
SPEAKER_02: My name is Elmer Cagnes Jr.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: and I'm here with my friend Willie C.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: Simpson.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: Yo.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Jr.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: What is up?
0:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here today, episode two, season six, episode two.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: Come on.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: Let's go.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: Today we are talking about character before the platform.
0:31
SPEAKER_02: Character before the platform.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: And because what God does in us is actually more important than what he does through us.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: A lot of times we're so focused on the things that we do for God.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: And we tend to idolize or even prioritize the things that we do for God versus the things that He's actually doing in us.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, and to your point, I think because it's easy for us to focus on the outward and the external, because that keeps us from looking inwardly and internally.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, things like character and virtue and mindset, heart posture, even motives, those things can't be seen.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: So it's easy to kind of hide behind those things and just say, you know what, I'm just going to focus on the works.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: More importantly, I'm going to focus on the fruit of those works.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: And that could be in dangerous things because, you know, scripture shows us lots of examples, Elmer, of God using flawed people with severe character issues to produce great results.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: And so our anchor text today comes out of 1 Samuel 16.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to look at verse 7 here.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: So for context, you know, David is anointed king, and the prophet Samuel is going to David's father's house, a man named Jesse.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: And Samuel is looking at all of Jesse's sons.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: And here at verse 6, one of the sons, he says, Here, when they came, he, the prophet, looked on Eliab and thought, Surely the Lord, surely the Lord's anointed is before him.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: But the Lord said to Samuel, so so this is the prophet looking on Eliab.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: He's a tall, handsome, rugged man, and he's thinking, Man, surely God's gonna pick him because he's looking outwardly.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: But then look at verse 7.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: But the Lord said to Samuel, do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: So we gotta start first, look at God's perspective, right?
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Then he says, For the Lord sees not as man sees.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Man looks outwardly, but the Lord looks on the heart.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of times there's when we read that story of David and and Samuel selecting the next king and anointing the next king of Israel, we think of like, well, could they not do it?
2:46
SPEAKER_02: Like I've always wondered that, like, were they not built, like if God said, Hey, I'm gonna pick him, yeah, was would he have been capable of it?
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Even he had all the exterior things, you know, but but did he have the character?
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's the question.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: The thing we we don't know that in scripture.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: But we know that about David.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: Yep, we do.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: We know a lot about David prior to this moment.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just you know, he he served his father.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: We know that, you know, you could tell in this in this scripture, he was not even considered by his own father or family.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: But God did not forget him.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so there's a lot of a lot of relationship there that you're just seeing, all right.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: So there's something important that God God sees in David and God's not willing to neglect David because David's building a relationship, and we know David's out in the in the fields shepherding his father's flock.
3:36
SPEAKER_02: That's right while he's in communion with God and and worshiping God and singing songs and writing psalms.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: And uh, and so there's something that David's establishing or that God's establishing in David first before even considering the platform of being a king.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: And to your point, you know, David, you get the sense from scripture that David also had intentionality.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: I love how you said relationship.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: Relationship, it's it's it's a two-way streak.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: And so perhaps, again, scripture doesn't give us any indication of this, but you know, I wonder what David's brother's relationship was like with God.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: But it is clear from scripture that David did have a life-giving, vibrant relationship with the Lord.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: And so when we do talk about character, we tend to start with the person and we need to start with the Lord.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: And so David's character is shaped by God because David spends time with God.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: And so there's, I just want to say off the rip, you cannot expect to become more like Jesus or even become more virtuous or righteous apart from Jesus.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't work that way.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: Jesus says in John 15, he says that he's the vine and we're the branch.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: And he says, You abide in me.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: And then he says, Then I'll abide in you.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: And then not only that, he says, My word will abide in you.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: And then he says, Then you'll bear much fruit.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: But the the caveat is he says, Apart from me, you can do nothing.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: So instead of starting with like the man in the mirror, we actually need to just start with the God in heaven and say, okay, God, like there, because God, all the character God has, he has all the virtues and all the attributes, right?
5:12
SPEAKER_00: So if I want to be more like God, I have to be like David and spend time with him.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: While he's out in the field, he's not just shepherding, he's surrendering.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: He's also being led by God, he's being shaped and molded.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: Is he is he perfect?
5:22
SPEAKER_00: No, because we see later on.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: He has severe failures.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: But even in the midst of that, we see his character come out and how he responds and reacts to those things.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and the thing about character is that character reveals your heart.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times people feel like, well, character they associate character with personality.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: And those are two different things.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: Because your personality could be one way.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Like you, you're an introvert, you're extrovert.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: You you like you like skydiving.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: You don't like skydiving.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: Like there's some things about your personality.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, you like chess, yeah.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: You like, you know, staying at home and cooking, you like going out.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: There's things about your personality that are unique to you, but character is actually formed.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: So a lot of times we we blame our personality for the things that we're not able to do.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm not able to do that.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: I cannot speak to people.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: I cannot lead people.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: I cannot, I don't like going to church.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: But those aren't things that that's not just your personality, that's your character.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: And so those are things that you're you form, you shape, you discipline your character.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: And so what we see in David's life is out in the field, number one, even if you're to say, well, he never walked with God the way that that you know Abraham walked with.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: Or Adam walked with God in the garden, right?
6:39
SPEAKER_02: Physically.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: Even if he didn't do that, he's we do see submission.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: David was out in the fields tending the sheep of his father.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Right.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: He was submitted to his father.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: That's exactly his earthly father.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: So as a young man, he was already showing submission and he's willing to serve and do whatever it takes.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: Even if it neglects him from the or he's neglected from the whole family.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: Like I could imagine him, he probably knew that.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: Hey, David, go take care of the shit.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, I just don't want me around.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: Well, all right, let me take my let me take my harp.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: And he just made the most of it.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: So instead of allowing a situation that most of us would be like, man, I'm always looked down and frowned upon.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: And man, you know, this this stinks, you know, this this discrimination.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: You know?
7:23
SPEAKER_02: Come on now.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: And we we immediately blame everyone else.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: No, he picked up his harp.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: He goes, Let me make the most of it.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: And then, all right, God, I got time with you.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: You know, and so there was a lot that happened in that season, again, through scripture, that shaped care uh his character that led him to be a great, not just a great warrior.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: There's there's there's examples of there.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: He killed a lion and a bear, right?
7:45
SPEAKER_02: And probably more things.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, with the slingshot.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: And then he defeats kills Goliath with a slingshot.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: And so then that formed him as a warrior and a protector.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: But then there's a lot that helped him be a great king as well.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: And it was his uh his ability and and uh and willingness to submit to the will of God.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, and and to your point, you know, you think about the time that he served Saul, King Saul, Israel's first king, and in the midst of that, Saul, I mean, you you can see you when we talk about character, Saul's bad character is revealed when he becomes king.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: And and David's, like you said, he submits, he honors Saul, even though Saul gets to the point of desperation where he actively seeks to kill David.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: And in the midst of it, you know, remember there's a couple of times where David has Saul dead to rights.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, can come up and take him out.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: And what's crazy is he would have been right in doing so because he would have been defending his own life.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: Remember that?
8:43
SPEAKER_00: But he says, I'm not gonna touch God's anointing.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: And why?
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Because, like you said, it there's just and these are things that scripture don't you don't pull out from scripture like specifically, but they're just demonstrated.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: Man, that a guy with that kind of character, I'm so glad you said character is formed, because it's not created and it's not built, it's formed, it's shaped.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: So it's like clay, it's it's shaped.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, there's no way that the the only other explanation that I could have, or the only explanation that I could have for David having that kind of resolve, that kind of humility, and really restraint is that he is his character was formed and shaped by God out in the field.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and so he he he gets in positions of authority prior to becoming king, he becomes king.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: And again, he is he perfect?
9:24
SPEAKER_00: No, none of the kings were perfect, but that's not the point.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Character, let me just say this too, character is also not perfection.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Like somebody can have high moral character and still be flawed, like and still be imperfect.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: So character is not per personality and character is not perfection.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: I think of character though, I think of character as an orientation, like what are you geared toward?
9:45
SPEAKER_00: Like, what is your sort of default or pattern?
9:47
SPEAKER_00: So when somebody has high character, I like to think of that character as being a pattern that was overlaid by something else.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: So a Christ follower will have the character of Christ, a world follower will have the character of the world.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and let me say this because our our our topic is character before the platform, and so there's a lot that is revealed about David, just like Saul.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: Before Saul became king, the people wanted him as king.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: They did.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: So there was something about him that was appealing and people loved he was tall.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: He was they said he was tall, he was handsome.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: His appearance, they said, Hey, this guy looks like a king.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: Very much what we would all say, like, yo, that's a stud.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: Yep, right.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: And and so then, same thing with David.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: He's he's submissive, you know.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh the the the I would say the we love a like my kids always say, Um, I want the underdog to win.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, so everyone loves loves an underdog story, like, you know, and and then so David was that in his family, then he becomes a great warrior, then he but becomes king.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: And then once he has that platform that he was anointed for, that's right, at the very beginning, come on, was it 35 years later?
10:58
SPEAKER_02: Almost almost 35 years later, after he was anointed by Samuel, yeah, then he gets the platform that he was anointed for.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Then we start seeing things come out.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: And so the platform itself that God's called you to, that he's purposed you for, will expose things.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: If your character is not built first in private.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: I think David would have been a lot like you know, there's like a lot of wicked kings in scripture.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, yeah.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: Like if you've studied the Bible and all the different kings and the things they've done, and and like uh over God's people, but they would worship pagan gods and uh sacrifices, job sacrifice, absolutely all these crazy things.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: But I think David would have been far off, like way worse had his character not been built.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: Fully agree.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: Because he was so loved and revered.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you think about people nowadays in our culture that are so loved and and revered, even in the Christian circles, that it's so much pressure that it breaks them.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it leads them to mental hospital, it leads them to drugs and drinking and and to just a lot of crazy things because it's not it's a glory that is not meant for men to carry.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, when you get to a place like that, it it corrupts you and it makes you make decisions that you probably would not ever have made, you know, but unless your character is formed and you're fully surrendered to God.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and so that's that's the danger about a platform, and it's not just in church.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh we're talking about any platform that that you're wanting, yeah, that you carry influence, that you could carry influence.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that you could carry influence.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so a question for us in the time that we have left, like what is something that the platform in this season of your life has exposed?
12:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that you're like, man, I gotta work on that.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: For me, it's it's it's two sides of the same coin, ego and and people pleasing, if just being honest.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that the platform has exposed and Willie, you you do have a bit of an ego.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: I've just I'll just say pride.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's exposed that.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: And part of it is because you see the results of being used on the platform, like like you see the fruit of it, you see the influence.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, again, you know, I I I don't preach nearly as much as Pastor Mike, but I I have circles where I do get to speak regularly and I get a chance to teach.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: And again, those are things the Lord's gifted me to do, but then the platform has exposed, like, hey Willie, you're you you if you're not careful, you tend to make yourself sort of the bottom of this.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, this is kind of happening to me.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like this is great.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, somebody comes, hey, that was a great message.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: I was a man teaching right there.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: It was on point, man.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: I was so convicting, whatever it is.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, Willie, you were used by you were you were an instrument, man.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: You were an instrument in the Lord's hand.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's also exposed the fact, and I mean, I've wrestled with with people pleasing like for years.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, before I came on staff, I mean, I know that that is a cross that I have to bear.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's something I have to lay down, the approval of man.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: And so it's not that I'll like like shape or or or like twist theology, but sometimes what I will do is I will sometimes put on a mask if I'm not careful to where I will do this to appease someone, instead of just saying, hey, I'm just gonna be who I am, I'm gonna say it the way that the Lord tells me to say it, and I'm gonna trust him with the results of that.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: So that's absolutely is what the is and and I'll uh on top of that, I'll say comparison.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm the platform sometimes has caused me to to compare.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: And so not Romans, but Galatians 6 has been so healing for me.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh Galatians 6, 4 says, keep a watch on your own life, and then the only thing you'll have to boast about is just the the good work you've done.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh the NLT says you'll have the satisfaction of doing a job well done.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: That'll be your reward.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: And so that's what the platform has exposed, and it's a gift because when God exposes it, I now have the opportunity to repent.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: And then let me use the word again.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: I just I get a chance to surrender that and then go to gratitude.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: And instead of saying, wow, that was me, say, God, thank you.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: Thank you that I even got a chance to speak.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for opening that door.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't have had it except you had opened it.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that that that's mine.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Dude, I'm trying to figure out a softer way of saying what I want to say for me, but I'll just say there's a season where the platform exposed hypocrisy in me and just like like leading people in in something so sacred and something so precious of worship and and and struggling inside.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: And again, and I've I've said this in previous episodes where it took me a while for me to actually speak up and share my emotions and and you know, step into counseling.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and so I was just bottling up a lot of things and and carrying a lot of weight internally that I would do the thing and I did it, I thought I did it good.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: Like I, you know, I leading worship or preaching, whatever I needed to do in church, and because I knew how to do the things, yeah, been around it for a long time, yeah.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: And again, and I did it with excellence because I love it, yeah.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: I love what I get to do, and so I would always put my best foot forward, but then it it exposed the hypocrisy of like you you're calling people into something that you're not there yourself, yeah.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: And so asking them to come and drink of the well, but me myself not taking a drink, come on, you know, and so I think the platform really showed me like there's there's more, and again, not the weight of being on on a platform on a church, yeah, but the fact that we get the opportunity in different ways to lead people, yeah, and to call people towards something, and in our case, towards God, we're leading them to Jesus, yeah.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm asking people, hey, worship Jesus, pour your heart out, lift your hands, you know, just set your sights on him.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: When at the same time I was struggling, yeah.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, God, like I can't right now.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: And my mind could be somewhere completely.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: And that's the danger again, like you were saying, because it it seemed effective.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: You were still getting the the comments after church, like like, hey, you did amazing, praise the Lord, that was awesome.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh, you had me in tears, and yeah, it's like, oh, praise God.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: Like you think God's moving, and all right, but the truth is God is moving, sure, despite your hypocrisy, despite your your your own struggles.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: And I know that's a strong word.
17:03
SPEAKER_02: That's why I'm like, what's a better word?
17:06
SPEAKER_02: I can think of it.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: It's apropos.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: But uh I wanna know what that means, but apro apropos.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's a fancy, fancier way of saying appropriate, appropriate.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: It's apropos.
17:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna just say the apropiado.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh there you go.
17:19
SPEAKER_02: That's just Spanish.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: That is as apropiado.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Hermanas.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Hermanos.
17:24
SPEAKER_02: Hermanos.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: No, but but that honestly, like just the weight of leading people and my heart not being there, yeah, but still seeing God move, yeah, it it makes you numb because then you're like, all right, I could keep doing this.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: I can I could continue to do this and live this way.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: But in reality, it's not okay and it's not good.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: And again, when leaders don't call you out, and and this is where I knew who was for me and who was who was actually wanting to invest in my life and wanting the best for me, it was the people that would call me out for you know just being fake.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: The people that would call me out for you know, not bringing it, bringing it all, because they knew I could do more.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: And so they even though nobody else saw the gap, they could see the gap.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, hey, are you spending time with God?
18:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, well, actually, no.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, are you in your word?
18:13
SPEAKER_02: No.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: And then so then they pushed me towards that.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: And but when people are just expecting to see your gift, yeah, and they don't value you, like as a leader, like don't just look at people that you lead at work, wherever you were work or at church.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: Don't just lead people because they they fulfill tasks and they do the thing.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: Like, look at them for the person God's called them.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: Because when you see everything God has for them and you can see that in them, even if they don't see it themselves, you can call things out of them like, hey, like you're not doing the whole thing.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: Like, what's missing?
18:46
SPEAKER_02: What's happening?
18:46
SPEAKER_02: What's going on in your mind?
18:47
SPEAKER_02: What's happening at home?
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, and have those honest conversations because a lot of times we're just like, hey, are you gonna accept on Planning Center?
18:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, are you gonna be a small group tonight?
18:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: Hey, are you gonna make the meeting?
18:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay, cool.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: Hey, can you bring something?
18:59
SPEAKER_02: Can you do this?
19:00
SPEAKER_02: Hey, can you make phone calls for me?
19:02
SPEAKER_02: And if we're just so focused on the tasks that need to happen, we'll never see what needs to happen in the person's life.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I remember in my life in that season specifically, it was like, all right, you could do this, do that, which led for me, it led me to a place where I just have to do the thing and I'll be okay.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: And eventually I got tired of it and I'm like, God, I don't want, I don't want to do this.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like if I'm not gonna be held accountable to living, not living the way that you're calling me to, and still be on platforms representing you, like I don't want to do this.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: And and my pastor at the time, Jadon George, he's like, I'm not gonna let you step away from ministry.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: He's like, it's all over you, and you're gonna keep doing this.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: And so, and then he just helped me rectify my steps, sent me off to another assignment, which eventually led us to Australia, where I where I told you yeah, that's where the Lord really established and and did a lot of healing and a lot of realigning in my own heart towards why why I do what I do.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: And so it was real vital to I think to the person I've I'm becoming, I'm just gonna say becoming because now I understand I'm not gonna stand on a platform if I'm not putting in the work, which means if I'm not willing to surrender, right?
20:12
SPEAKER_02: I can't ask other people on the team to surrender.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: If I'm not willing to submit, if I'm not willing to carry the heart of our pastor, yeah, align myself with the vision of our church, you know, if there's if I'm not willing to pursue the Lord in private, yeah, then I don't need to be on a platform in public.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, come on, man.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm man, that was a that's a whole word right there.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a couple of things you shared, Amher, that I obviously resonate.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: Because I've you know, I've you you know, again, you're one of my my best friends.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: And so that part there where you where you you know when you talked about the hypocrisy piece, really, you know, the fruitfulness in in the midst of creating that tension.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's stuff that you and I've talked about and we've had hard conversations and you've you know you've pushed me, but then I've been able to, you know, to to share with you and been open with you about like, hey man, like this is where I'm at in in in this season, but these are the practical steps like that I'm taking, like, like you said, you know, to get better.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: And there is a question as you were sharing that that I was thinking through when you were talking about how the platform has this exposing effect.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: And so, like when I was in that season specifically of like like true hard recovery and like confession, there was a question that the Lord about every couple of weeks or so would just kind of have me revisit.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: And that question is this, and this is a question I think all of you as leaders need to just regularly ask yourself okay, what is a habit, a pattern, or a belief that you have right now that will destroy the platform that you want to get on?
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Just what is it?
21:42
SPEAKER_00: And I'm telling you, man, like it's Romans 12 3.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: It's so I believe that the first work has to start with self reflection and taking what I like to call a fearless moral inventory.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: That's what they talk about in celebrate recovery.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, you just have to take this fearless moral inventory.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Inventory and it's Romans 12:3.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: Make an honest assessment of yourself with the measure of faith given everyone.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think you have to start there and say, okay, what is what are some things in my life?
22:09
SPEAKER_00: If you can just identify at least one that will cause a catastrophic downfall if it's not resolved.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: And just start there and say, okay, God, I want you to heal this.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: I want you, or maybe it's I'm going to lay that down.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: I want to just repent and walk away from it.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is, porn, drug use, alcohol use, illicit relationships, money gambling, just being a liar, whatever, and saying this issue, if nothing else will, this will kill me.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: It's like those that like folks that have HIV, it's or AIDS.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, if nothing else kills you, this will kill you.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Seriously.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, hey, if nothing else, this will be fatal.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: And man, that's a hard conversation to have with the Lord and with yourself.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: But man, the freedom and the healing on the backside of it is just unexplainable.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: And I'm telling you, it's worth doing that kind of work.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: And some of you, I would just encourage you, have that conversation.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Like Pastor Elmer said, bring in a trusted friend.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Shoot, start with your own family and say, hey, what are some things that you see in me right now that like honestly truly concern you that you've maybe been too scared to confront me with?
23:11
SPEAKER_00: And let them say, Well, by since you mentioned XYZ.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: And then take that, humble yourself, and work on it.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: And do something about it.
23:18
SPEAKER_02: Do something about it.
23:18
SPEAKER_02: Do something about it.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: I think along with that, we have to number one, allow God permission to really reveal those things and expose those things.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: Because we could be walking around with these character flaws and still expect a platform.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: Eventually the platform's gonna be gone.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: And the thing, what happens when the platform's gone?
23:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: Like who who is left?
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: Who is left?
23:40
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm gonna be just church focused right now.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Like there's people in churches that they're preaching and singing, and you take that away from them.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: And who are they?
23:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: Who are you?
23:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, and that's that's something I always ask myself, especially as a father, with with children that that they love the things that I'm doing.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Like my my two oldest want to lead worship, right?
24:00
SPEAKER_02: And so they're doing it in students and young adults.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: And like, if I if I don't have a guitar, who am I?
24:08
SPEAKER_02: If I don't have a piano, if I don't have a microphone, who am I?
24:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times you might be blind to it yourself, but if you ask your family, they can tell you straight up.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, well, you're not that same person at church.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: You're a whole other person at home.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: And and don't get mad.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: That's the thing.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing about character formation.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: It's there it's gonna be things that are hard to hear.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: Things that are gonna hurt, but and you gotta let it hurt, and you gotta do something about it.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: Because if you just stay where you're at, you're gonna be the same person and you're not gonna be making any progress.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: And so you have to allow yourself to be developed by God, developed by the people that love you.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: They love you.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: Like your family loves you, the people at church that want to lead you, they love you.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they want what's best for you.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: And so we pray that that in this season that you can just see the Lord form you and shape you into what He wants, not what you desire.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: And so, and that but that starts with an alignment with the heart of God as well.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll say this.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: This is something that I've I've learned in my own season, but it's also something that when I do pastoral care, uh, especially for for for men that that are struggling with any especially sexual integrity issues, addiction, anger, whatever, I'll say the the greatest gift you can give your family is the healthiest version of you.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: And so for those of you that lead in any sphere of influence, whatever platform you have, whatever organization that you're a part of, the greatest gift that you could give that organization to your church, to your team, to your ministry, to your company, to your family is the healthiest version of you.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: That's the greatest gift that you can give them because then the work that you do becomes an overflow of that health.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: The the the the ministry that you do, the meetings, the the worship services, the the sermons, the the teachings, all of those things, they're an overflow of that health.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: And so if you start first with saying, like David did, King David did in Psalm 139, he starts at the top of that chapter, Lord, you have searched me and have known me.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: Then he ends it by saying, search me again, know me again, see if there be anything grievous that offends you, and then restore me back on the path of everlasting life.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: And I think just starting there, having an honest conversation with the Lord, and I love what you said, because the Lord loves you.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: There are people that love you, and let God speak to you directly, and then let God speak to you through his people to say, Yeah, these are some things that that will hinder you and hamper you from from living the life and being the person God truly has called you to be.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: Ephesians 2.10 says that there are works that he's prepared for us from long ago.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: And man, I Elmer, I want to walk in those works with fullness of joy and peace and confidence, saying, Man, you know what?
26:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm healthy because I'm staying attached to the one who keeps me healthy.
26:45
SPEAKER_02: Come on, come on.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: And we want to leave you with this.
26:48
SPEAKER_02: A lot of times we we think about these things and we we're like, I have to go look at the mirror.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, don't look at the mirror, get on your knees.
26:55
SPEAKER_02: Come on.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: Get on your knees before God, humble yourself, like Pastor Willie said, yeah, and see God, like God, where do I need to be honest?
27:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and again, if we're already hiding things in public, that means that our private life is struggling.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: So just deal with the things in private that you need to with God.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: And and like Pastor Willie said, sometimes you do need another voice to help you and push you.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: And so ask the Lord if this is your starting point.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: God send somebody to help me because I don't want to stay here.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and so allow him to use that individual or that moment of surrender to really begin a change in your life because we need to develop our character before God trusts us with platforms.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: And the platform is not for us, that's right.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: The platform is to bring glory to God so we can lead people to become fully devoted followers of Jesus Christ.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: And so that's why it's so important to get the character right at first.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: So I hate we love you.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: Next week, we do have a special guest, yes, all the way from down under Australia, Mike.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: Australia.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: So we're excited about that.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be Bonza.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that means.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what that means.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: But it's gonna be awesome.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: But we love you guys.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining us.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: Until next week, peace out.