Latest / The Diary of a CFO / Beyond the Numbers: Leadership Lessons from Three-Time Nonprofit CFO, Teri Kozub

Transcript

Beyond the Numbers: Leadership Lessons from Three-Time Nonprofit CFO, Teri Kozub · The Diary of a CFO

0:00
Meet Terry Kozub, a three -time CFO with 33 years
0:03
of experience in the nonprofit sector. She currently
0:06
serves as chief financial officer at Community
0:08
Legal Services of mid Florida, overseeing accounting,
0:11
IT, risk management, and strategic planner with
0:13
a strong financial foundation. Let's jump into
0:17
the episode. Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO
0:20
podcast. The podcast where finance leaders share
0:23
the lessons, challenges, and wins that shape
0:25
their careers, as well as their organizations.
0:28
Today, I'm your host, Waseea Camon, and I'm delighted
0:30
to have with me, Terri Coza. Welcome to the show,
0:33
Terri. Thank you. Good morning. Glad to be here.
0:36
Awesome. Me too, because you have such an extensive
0:39
experience. I can't wait to dive in. So why don't
0:42
you start with telling us about your journey
0:44
and the story behind how you find yourself here
0:47
today in your current role? It's been a good
0:49
journey. Not always a straight line. I don't
0:51
think it's ever a straight line. I actually realized
0:54
this morning that my middle child has turned
0:57
33. So I've been in this business for 33 years
1:00
now in the nonprofit side, doing a little bit
1:02
of accounting and finance before that. But absolutely
1:06
has been a, it's been a journey of just adventure
1:09
and wonder and awe. I never knew I wanted to
1:13
work in the nonprofit world. I knew I wanted
1:15
to make the world a better place. So I didn't
1:18
realize that those actually very much go hand
1:20
-in -hand. I spent many years in nonprofit arts.
1:24
I was at Ford's Theater. I was at Washington
1:27
Performing Arts Society. You know, two just huge
1:30
organizations in Washington, DC. Maybe not in
1:33
size, but in prestige and honor and all that.
1:36
So had a lot of great people I worked with there.
1:39
Decided it was cold. Moved to Florida. ended
1:42
up working with the Orlando Philharmonic and
1:45
part of the Plaza Live. And then for some reason,
1:49
and I'm really not sure why, but for some reason
1:51
I went over to the more social services sector
1:54
for a little bit. And I liked it, but it wasn't
1:57
quite the same. And then I actually had a recruiter
2:00
call me for this position at Community Legal
2:02
Services. And again, it went back to that, you
2:04
know, changing the world to make the world a
2:07
better place. And it was just, it was a whole
2:09
new adventure that opened up to me. Many, many
2:12
years ago, I thought briefly about being a lawyer
2:14
and I never took that journey, but now it's kind
2:19
of cool that I'm alongside of those people and
2:21
I'm alongside of people. I might not have a direct
2:25
impact on the community. I know what I'm doing
2:28
has a direct impact on the community. And that's
2:31
huge. That means so much to me. Oh, that is awesome.
2:35
It is rewarding because I started in for profit
2:37
before coming into not for profit. And I've been
2:39
not for profit now for almost four years. And
2:43
it does make a difference when you know that
2:45
the work you do, even though you still, you know,
2:49
somehow in the numbers and things like that does
2:51
contribute to have sustainable impact in the
2:54
community. So glad you find yourself in not for
2:57
profit. Now, the thing is, a lot of people think
2:59
not for profit is easy. or easier? What do you
3:03
have to say about that? Because I don't want
3:04
it to come from me, but curious to hear. You're
3:07
33 years, what have you learned about the interesting
3:11
things, that surprising things people may have
3:14
about being a CFO in a now for profit environment?
3:17
Wow, that's a huge question. So let me start
3:20
with the first of, it's easy and you're right,
3:23
it's not. It's always a challenge. I think that's
3:27
how you learn so much though. And that's how
3:29
you grow is being a CFO isn't just, it's not
3:33
just numbers. It's so much more than that. I
3:36
have cleaned up rats from a basement as part
3:39
of the CFO role. Look at your face. You know,
3:43
I have, and I want to talk about some of this
3:46
more later, but I've also, I've developed audio
3:49
tours. I've, you know, looked at ways to help
3:52
seniors that were not quite, you know, in line
3:55
with what you would think we would be doing.
3:57
So. There's, I think, one of the best things
4:01
about working, especially for the smaller nonprofits.
4:03
And when I say smaller, I mean under 20 million,
4:06
you get to do a little bit of everything. You
4:08
know, you, you really get to, you get to work
4:12
at, you get to play with numbers. You get to
4:14
look at the endowment account. How do you, how
4:16
do you start an endowment? How do you grow an
4:18
endowment? What's the budget look like? So you
4:20
get to do all of those things, but with a nonprofit,
4:22
there's also so many other pieces that come in
4:26
from you because if people don't know where a
4:29
task fits, it fits under the CFO. So yes, that's
4:35
got y 'all. It is a catch all, but that's, that's
4:38
also a good thing. So I think that was the first
4:40
part of your question. Then you asked a second
4:42
question. Kind of tag on to it. What are some
4:45
of the things about being a CFO that might surprise
4:47
people? That I count on my fingers. I used to
4:52
think it was only me in the last week. I saw
4:54
someone's doing this and like, they're counting
4:56
on their fingers. So that's definitely surprising.
5:00
I think another thing is surprising, and I've
5:02
already mentioned this, the whole idea is that
5:04
numbers isn't what we do all day. Numbers provide
5:07
us information, but as a CFO, we need to be at
5:11
the table with the other leaders in the organization,
5:14
having influence, thinking strategically on how
5:17
do I move my organization forward? So while the
5:20
numbers are important, you know, we're looking
5:23
at historical numbers often, we also need to
5:25
look forward and think what do we need to do
5:28
to prepare for the future? And then the last,
5:31
kind of the third thing I guess I would say is
5:33
we're actually kind of funny sometimes. They're
5:35
like, oh, you're a boring accounting person or
5:38
whatever. Not that accounting people are boring
5:40
either, but you know, they always think we're
5:42
very reserved and buttoned up. And we're not,
5:46
I mean, you're a perfect example of that and
5:48
we're just like everybody else. Yes. Yes. Thank
5:52
you so much for sharing. I'm curious to hear,
5:55
especially since you've been a CFO three times,
5:58
I'm curious to understand how did you grow into
6:01
the role of CFO? Like what was that first CFO
6:04
experience like versus the second versus the
6:07
third one? How did you prepare maybe differently
6:09
or how did you lend the role maybe differently?
6:12
The first By the time I became a CFO, I was beyond
6:18
blessed, beyond fortunate. Someone took a chance
6:21
on me. I had had Hunter reach out to me, and
6:24
this was at Washington Performing Arts Society.
6:27
I didn't really know what a CFO was. I knew they
6:29
did a lot of different things. And I think I
6:32
came in cheap, compared to the other person with
6:35
all those years of experience. They hired me,
6:37
and then it's like, now what do I do? Because
6:40
it really was a... You know, oftentimes in the
6:43
nonprofit world, especially I think you do learn
6:45
on your own. You learn as you're doing the job
6:47
and you just kind of figure out what needs to
6:50
be done and you reach out to people and you get
6:52
them to help. Since then, you know, the CFO,
6:56
I would say each time it's gotten easier until
6:59
I got into this position I'm currently in because
7:02
it was a whole new role. It wasn't. nonprofit
7:04
arts anymore, and it was a bigger question. And
7:07
I remember the first day, our chief, one of the,
7:09
like in the first week, our chief program officer
7:11
came to me and she's like, she starts asking
7:14
me this huge question. And I'm just thinking
7:16
how that, nevermind what I know. I had no idea.
7:22
And again, I think that's what keeps it interesting.
7:24
That's what keeps you coming back is that I'm
7:27
going to learn more. I'm going to do more. I'm
7:29
going to, I'm going to learn something new. I
7:31
had. I had no idea about the law or anything,
7:35
how to serve people, how to serve clients. And
7:38
believe me, I still don't know, I know the tip
7:40
of the iceberg, not even that much, but it's
7:42
just, it's always evolving. The role is always
7:46
evolving. And I think especially now as you move
7:49
more into IT and cybersecurity risk and, you
7:52
know, it's like, I know all those, those, you
7:54
know, normal things to do, but you just have
7:56
to keep staying on top of things. There's a lot
8:00
of bad people out in the world and that just
8:03
infuriates me because it's like if they would
8:05
just shift and do good things, what a better
8:07
place. It will be so much better. Yeah. Yeah,
8:10
but that's not going to happen. So it comes back
8:11
to how can I make the world a better place? So
8:14
you learn what cybersecurity risks are and you
8:17
learn how to work through those. And, you know,
8:20
it's not, it's one of those, a lot of it's not
8:22
that hard. It's just being meticulous, paying
8:25
attention. Yes, because in your current role,
8:28
you oversee IT and risk management. And I'm pretty
8:32
sure maybe in your first role, you were not necessarily
8:34
overseeing IT and maybe were just finance and
8:37
accounting. So the role is the plate is definitely
8:40
getting larger. So what has been your go -to
8:43
move to, you know, getting to that kind of situation
8:46
and take over and being able to learn to be able
8:49
to lead effectively other functions that maybe
8:53
like you were not an expert in, but now you have
8:56
to lead them. That's a huge question. We can
8:59
talk about that for all day. To me, the biggest,
9:02
there's a few things. You need to have smart
9:05
people, and then you need to be able to trust
9:07
that they're smart and trust that they're doing
9:09
their job. And that open communication, my director
9:14
of IT, she keeps me informed. I don't tell her
9:17
how to do her job. I don't know how to do her
9:19
job. You wouldn't know how to do it. She knows
9:22
how to do her job, but she comes to me when there's
9:25
a problem. We talk about things. We talk about
9:27
how do we move forward if there's a problem because
9:30
it comes down to making decisions and taking
9:32
risks. What are you balancing? What are you going
9:35
to, if you choose path A instead of path B, what
9:39
does that mean? So it's really just trusting
9:42
them and allowing them to do their job and also
9:45
allowing for mistakes. I have made some really
9:48
stupid mistakes in my career. Some of them lack
9:51
of judgment or lack of experience and some just,
9:55
I made a mistake that day, you know. So, but
9:59
you have to allow yourself grace and I think
10:01
other people grace and just mistakes are going
10:03
to happen. So you just move forward with that.
10:06
And then the one other thing I think that's really
10:09
important is conversations and talking with people.
10:13
Because if I hire a really good IT person, but
10:16
they can't tell me what's going on, that doesn't
10:19
do me any good. You need, they need to be able
10:22
to talk English to me, just like I need to be
10:24
able to take my financial statements and explain
10:26
them to somebody who's not. financial. So it's
10:29
just that at ability to communicate meaningfully.
10:33
Yeah. That's, um, I think that's really, really
10:36
important. Great wisdom nuggets right there.
10:39
Thank you so much for sharing. I'm curious right
10:42
now, um, what would you say is the biggest challenge
10:45
keeping you up at night and how are you navigating
10:48
through it? The biggest challenge I'm going to
10:50
since January, February has been uncertainty.
10:54
What's happening tomorrow. what's going to happen
10:57
next week. We have a lot of government funding,
11:03
as I'm sure a lot of nonprofits do, and it's
11:05
just always trying to plan what's going to happen.
11:09
So there's uncertainty. If you know what's going
11:12
to happen and you know, oh, I'm going to get
11:13
this much money every year, some of you might
11:16
go up a little or down a little, that's easy
11:18
to plan for. But this past year has been really
11:21
tough because not only were we looking at current
11:24
year funding, but also now we're looking at next
11:27
year's funding and now there's a possible shutdown
11:29
coming. So there's a whole lot of uncertainty.
11:32
best way to prepare for that is, you know, accept
11:36
what you can't control. We know we can't control
11:38
everything. So if I can't control everything,
11:40
what can I do to prepare for the future? And
11:43
you prepare for the worst and you just expect
11:45
the best. I was reminded of that this past week.
11:50
I was at a conference for Legal Services Corporation.
11:53
I met this brand new CFO. She's about 20 years
11:56
younger than me. And she was like, your attitude
11:59
the first day, it was just terrible. You were
12:02
doom and gloom. And you know what? She was right.
12:05
I let myself go down there and it's, and it's
12:09
refreshing to hear somebody so much younger than
12:11
you say, you know, be optimistic. You, you know,
12:14
we're going to get through this. And that was,
12:16
that was really cool. That was just neat to,
12:19
to hear that from someone else, from someone
12:22
who didn't know me that well, but Um, obviously
12:25
I was not giving off a good vibe that day. But
12:28
it's also a good reminder of the power of having
12:32
a community and people around you. Cause I feel
12:34
like being a CFO can be a little lonely, but
12:37
sometimes you're the only finance person talking,
12:41
um, to other non -finance people. I just feel
12:44
like it's maybe isolating. I'm just curious to
12:46
hear, you know, you've been a CFO three times.
12:49
So curious to hear if you do feel like. being
12:51
a CF on exec, a top executive period is kind
12:54
of lonely. And how do you bridge the gap? How
12:57
do you build a community around you? Um, I think
13:01
it is, you know, I don't know if I've ever really
13:05
used that word lonely, but I know I have felt
13:07
that way, felt a little bit of isolation because
13:11
you come off and so much of what you do, you
13:15
can't talk about because it's people. So much
13:19
of what you do, you can't talk about because
13:20
there is some bad news and you're trying to process
13:23
it and deal with it. And then a lot of people
13:26
just don't understand what you're doing. So it
13:28
goes back to, I think just what you said, you
13:30
know, building a community, building teams you
13:34
can trust and not just, we've worked on this
13:36
so much at Community Legal Services, not just
13:39
the team that you manage. but also that team
13:42
across the chiefs, you know, all of our, all
13:45
of the chiefs, the human resources officer, the
13:47
program officer, the executive officer, the growth
13:50
officer, we all need to be a team as well. And
13:54
while they might not understand the everything
13:56
behind the numbers, the chief executive officer
13:59
certainly does, but you know, not everyone's
14:01
going to understand. all of the things you're
14:03
going through my head, but they can understand
14:05
the frustrations I'm feeling. They can understand
14:07
the impact of everything that's happening. So
14:11
I think, you know, kind of having those work
14:13
communities, and then I'm also a big outside
14:16
of work community person. Communities are important,
14:19
whether it's people with similar, you know, values
14:23
and goals and fun activities to do outside of
14:26
work, or if it's networking groups. But I hate
14:30
neck working, so that's probably not the best
14:32
example. But, you know, it's just, it's always
14:35
good to like already go to these conferences.
14:38
Again, I'm not a, I'm not a big conference person.
14:40
I met three or four people who it's like, wow,
14:44
now when I have a question, I can go to them
14:47
and I can lean on them. And that's really, that's
14:50
reassuring too. So I think just the more you
14:53
can build up connections and build those strong
14:56
relationships. And you don't always have to agree.
15:00
It's really okay to disagree, but then you just
15:04
kind of, you work together. And I think often
15:07
we build a stronger idea when we come from different
15:12
sides and different perspectives. And then let's
15:14
build it up to make it good. That's very true.
15:17
That's very powerful, too, is the fact that we
15:20
don't all have to agree. And I read a book couple.
15:23
Actually, a couple years ago, it was called Unstuck
15:26
and Stoppable by Janine Brown. And she was talking
15:28
about the idea of a personal board of directors.
15:31
My first time hearing it. And she was like, you
15:34
know, companies have board of directors. You
15:36
should also have one and make sure that is diverse
15:38
in terms of not just finance people. You need
15:41
maybe a lawyer, a CEO. And it went back to what
15:44
you just said, having different perspectives.
15:48
Right. You may not always agree, but it definitely
15:50
make you a stronger as an executive period, but
15:53
being able to have better decisions because people
15:56
are coming from different angles and challenging
15:58
you differently as well. So that has been very,
16:01
I'd be very grateful for that because I expended
16:05
my personal board of directors since, and I've
16:07
been mentioning it everywhere I go because it
16:10
does feel sometimes lonely. Yeah. I really liked
16:14
that idea. One of the. I know you haven't asked
16:18
this, and I guess I'm just going to volunteer
16:20
it. One of the things that I really wish I had
16:24
done, I never had a mentor. You know, when I
16:26
started in this business years ago, I remember
16:29
when I said, oh yeah, I'm in nonprofit arts,
16:31
people looked at me and they're like, oh, I want
16:33
my kids to go into a field that pays. Or, you
16:36
know, that's not a respectable job or whatever.
16:38
There was never anyone there. I never had a mentor.
16:41
So I, I would love if I could have one redo in
16:45
my, in my professional life, find a mentor. And
16:48
I think that goes very much in line with, I like
16:51
the board of directors. I do now that I'm a little
16:53
bit older. I think I'm too old for a mentor,
16:56
but a board of directors, that's, I. I want to
16:59
follow up on that. That's great. Oh yeah, for
17:02
sure. We'll definitely drop the link in the show
17:04
notes too, but it's something that, especially
17:07
as women in finance, because there is the role
17:09
of the CFO being a law and then being a woman
17:12
in executive leadership can also come with its
17:14
own set of challenges. So definitely surrounding
17:18
yourself with the right people has been very
17:20
comforting for me at least. But thanks for sharing.
17:24
I've always been into, you know, mentoring or
17:27
whatever. So I'm like, oh, you never had a mentor.
17:31
So right now you don't have a mentor. I'm curious.
17:35
But are you a mentor to somebody else? I haven't
17:38
done that. I should. I've definitely given people
17:42
advice and kind of said, well, this is what I
17:44
would do or this is how I would handle it. I
17:45
recently had somebody who, again, is like this
17:49
job number two out of college. And she was like,
17:51
you always know so much, you know what to say.
17:53
And I just was like, I've been doing this forever.
17:56
It's like I'm older than your parents, but you
18:00
know, it goes back to diversity. I think age
18:02
diversity, it's just one form of diversity. And
18:08
personally, I think the more we can embrace diversity,
18:11
we just... come across with better ideas and
18:14
better solutions. Yes, we do. I agree. I agree.
18:19
I'm curious now about maybe the best project
18:22
you worked on or, you know, maybe something because
18:27
I think you started an endowment from scratch
18:29
and the idea of endowment is Well, when I got
18:34
it not for profit, I was like, wait, what? How
18:36
does it work? So maybe you can share something
18:38
around that because it's one of those things
18:41
that don't exist in for profit. So the other
18:44
question I want to hit on up first though on
18:46
the favorite project, it had nothing. absolutely
18:50
nothing to do with Five Yet's. And I think that's
18:53
part of why it was my favorite. And then part
18:55
of it is because I think it actually was super
18:56
successful. When I worked at Ford's theater twice,
18:59
actually, and the second time I worked there,
19:03
I was director of finance administration, which
19:05
is the same. I was like the deputy director or
19:07
one of the deputy directors. So that's the same
19:10
as being a CFO, even though the title is not
19:13
quite the same. We were looking at ways to diversify
19:16
revenue and diversify income. And somebody had
19:18
said, hey, I heard this was many years ago. We'll
19:21
leave it at that. So audio tours were still a
19:24
very new thing. And someone was like, let's start
19:25
an audio tour. Terry, why don't you do it? Because
19:29
you're trying to make more money for us. I didn't
19:31
know what an audio tour was. So we had to do,
19:35
we did an audio tour. And I like museums. I'm
19:39
not a museum person. I don't read all the signs.
19:42
So I'm in charge of making an audio tour for
19:45
a museum that's attached to Ford's theater. It
19:47
was great. It was great. Cause you actually can
19:50
hire companies and hire writers and all of that.
19:53
So it was more of a managing the project. But
19:55
you know, that's, I think that's my kind of thing.
19:58
Had I been in a for -profit world than a bigger
20:01
company, I would have never had that opportunity.
20:05
So that's just really, that's really kind of
20:08
cool. You know, all because you didn't narrate
20:10
like when you said, oh, you're the one reading
20:12
the thing though. Oh, no, no. I got to, we got
20:15
to hear like audio tapes of the people reading
20:18
and all that. We could decide the voices and
20:20
everything. And then about half way through and
20:22
said, we need a kid's version of this too. So
20:25
there's things like that that are always a lot
20:28
of fun and you never know what the day is going
20:30
to bring. Uh -huh. Nice, nice. And then the endowment.
20:35
Can you give us the endowment 101? Because I'm
20:40
interested in doing that. But you know, since
20:42
you're here, I'm like, okay, why not teach me?
20:45
So endowments are interesting. I've never been
20:48
at a nonprofit without an endowment until Community
20:50
Legal Services. And you know, we're about to
20:52
celebrate 60 years. So it seems like it was time.
20:56
We actually got a gift from Mackenzie Scott.
21:01
gazillionaire we had a gift from her it's been
21:03
a few years now and it wasn't huge it was a couple
21:07
million dollars which you know and I know her
21:09
gifts range from you know a million to 70 million
21:13
I think was yesterday's headline so they range
21:16
all over but her instructions with the gift were
21:19
do something you've never been able to do So
21:22
for us, and for me, it's like, we need to build
21:25
an endowment. And at first people are like, oh,
21:26
let's do this, let's do that. And then it's like,
21:28
no, we've never been able to do this. You know,
21:30
there's never enough money that you can just
21:33
set aside this other piece of money and say,
21:35
I'm never going to touch that. And I just want
21:37
it to grow. So that's where our endowment came
21:40
from. It was a beautiful thing. It wasn't, I
21:43
don't want to say it wasn't work on our part,
21:44
because I think that she gives to companies that
21:47
do, they've already done the work. And she's
21:51
acknowledging it. So lots of work on our part,
21:54
but nothing to really not to actually put the
21:56
money in the bank. Okay. And for people who don't
22:00
understand how, what an endowment is or like,
22:05
what are the benefits of an endowment for an
22:08
organization? Can you please share some one -on
22:11
-one nuggets here? Yeah. So the endowment is
22:16
really just an account. Simple terms, it's set
22:20
aside. You don't use it for day -to -day operations.
22:22
You don't use it for anything really. The goal
22:25
is to actually be putting money into it. It's
22:27
also invested very conservatively. And the goal
22:32
is for that money to always be there for it to
22:33
be in, I can't say that word, perpetuity. Have
22:38
it around forever. One of the good... pieces
22:41
of an endowment is actually use it as a, as a
22:44
marketing campaign almost for your fundraising
22:46
efforts, you know, to do it, to have a whole
22:48
legacy program where this, this sounds terrible,
22:52
but when people pass away, you know, to, to benefit
22:56
financially from, from them as well, where, you
22:59
know, maybe they give 10 ,000, maybe they give
23:01
50 ,000, but many people don't have kids or family
23:04
or whatever, and they need someone to give their
23:06
money to. So. It's great for that, but that's
23:11
one way that you can build it. And I can't believe
23:13
I just went down that tangent, but you just want
23:15
to build it. And you hear about these huge schools
23:17
that have hundreds of millions in their endowments.
23:21
Yeah, most of us don't live like that. We have,
23:24
you know, one to 10 million in our endowment.
23:27
And when it gets that big, then you can maybe
23:29
fund a position from it if you have a $10 million
23:32
endowment, you know, take some of the earnings
23:34
and use it towards some sort of operation. But
23:37
mostly you're just putting that money away, not
23:41
even for a rainy day, but just putting that money
23:43
away so that your organization will always have
23:46
a legacy, will always exist. Wow. Thank you so
23:50
much for sharing because it's one of those things
23:53
that we don't always understand from, you know,
23:55
reading the business news and things that we
23:57
hear the name, the term, but we don't always
24:01
know what it means. And especially when we go
24:03
back to how we said earlier, the uncertainty
24:06
going on right now, those organizations that
24:09
have endowment do have an advantage, right? Oh,
24:13
yes, very much so. Yes. So what would you say
24:17
is one? piece of wisdom that you pass along to
24:21
the next generation of finance leaders. To be
24:24
a sponge, to really learn everything you can,
24:26
whether it's about your role or another role,
24:29
and to not shy away from the opportunities, to
24:33
not shy away from the audio tours or from going
24:37
to, we do a lot of outreach events at community
24:39
legal services, you know, where we're going out
24:41
into the community. You meet the people you're
24:44
serving. And so many times in finance, you get
24:47
pulled back and you're behind this wall and nobody
24:50
sees you and you don't know who you're serving.
24:52
So to really become a part of the organization,
24:56
then you know its values. You know what people
24:58
are working on. You know what breaks their heart.
25:01
And you know what drives them and keeps them
25:03
up at night. And that just makes you so much
25:06
better in your role. Wow. So good. Thank you.
25:12
I know we're getting to the end, so I'm just
25:14
going to ask you two more questions. So what's
25:16
your favorite quote and why? So my favorite quote
25:20
is not technically a quote, but I'm going to
25:22
use it as a quote. Speak up for those who cannot
25:25
speak for themselves, for the rights of all who
25:27
are destitute. That's actually from the Bible.
25:31
It's Proverbs 31, 8, and it's just... There's
25:36
so much, I know I'm all over the map, but there's
25:39
so much in the Bible, especially in like Proverbs,
25:42
that is about justice for all, for everyone.
25:45
And that it's our responsibility to look out
25:48
for each other, to make sure everything, as much
25:52
as we can to make sure life is fair. We're taking
25:56
care of other people. You know, it's one thing
25:58
to say, oh yeah, you know. Hope you're well,
26:03
stay warm and all of that, but if you don't give
26:04
your coat, then how are you helping them stay
26:07
warm? So if you don't give them legal services,
26:11
how are you helping them? You can't say, oh,
26:13
I hope you get over your legal issues, but you
26:16
have to speak up for them. These people, the
26:19
people that we serve don't have voices in the
26:22
courtrooms. So this has always been up there
26:24
as one of my favorites. And since I've been at
26:26
Community Legal Services, obviously that is so,
26:30
important and it doesn't matter to me. You can
26:34
believe or not believe or you can believe whatever
26:37
you want, but you cannot question that statement
26:40
to speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves
26:43
for the rights of all who are destitute. Wow.
26:45
So that must have been a full circle moment for
26:48
you working where you are. So thank you so much
26:51
for sharing. My last question will be, what's
26:54
your favorite thing to do outside of work? I'm
26:56
excited to know that one because you left DC.
26:59
to come to Florida. So what are you doing on
27:02
the weekends? Well, it's every now and then back
27:04
in Virginia, but that's a whole other story.
27:07
But I'm still working in Florida. I love to hike.
27:09
So I like cooler weather. So I'm really looking
27:12
forward to the next few months, but I like to
27:13
hike. And, you know, if you hike, you get thirsty.
27:16
So you have to drink beer. So that's all good,
27:18
too. And other than that, and the reason I moved
27:20
back up north is what everybody says, my friends
27:23
and family. You know, those are those are certainly
27:26
important to me, but have a super close family.
27:29
Everybody's close. And that's why we're back
27:31
up here. But so friends, family, hiking and beer.
27:34
There you go. That's me. Good, good. Well, thank
27:38
you. Thank you so much for being on the show.
27:40
It was such a great conversation. Well, thank
27:43
you. Thank you. You made it easy. Thank you.
27:47
And that's it for today's episode of the Diary
27:49
of a CFO. Thank you so much for tuning in. If
27:52
you enjoyed the show, don't forget to like, review,
27:56
subscribe and share with others. Our website
27:58
is thediaryofacfo .com. That's where you can
28:02
find all the episodes, access all the guest profiles,
28:06
see their bios and the social media links. It
28:09
is also the place where you can apply to be a
28:12
guest on the podcast and have information about
28:14
how you can sponsor the show. As always, if there
28:17
is any topic you would like me to cover in the
28:20
future, just email me at ask at the diary of
28:23
a CFO dot com. See you soon. Wondering if you're
28:26
ready for the CFO role? Find out with a free
28:30
CFO readiness scorecard at CFO dot score app
28:33
dot com.