Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Practical Magic

Transcript

Practical Magic · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: What do they have? Individualism, the patriarchy, zef invest start
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, and welcome
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Durante and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: about the portrayal of women in movies, or as I
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: like to see the betrayal of women in movies sometimes,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: don't you think? I agree. We have kind of an
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: unusual recording situation today, which is kind of nice. Yeah,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: let's talk about it. And we're in your bed. We're
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: in my bed, which is where we usually record the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Matreon episodes if you're a member of our Patreon aka Matreon.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah you know, but today we're doing a main feed
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: episode in the bed, which is weird because I'm used
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: to be in loose in the bed, but now I'm like,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: no button up, not all button's about a couple of them.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I think this will be a nice sort of blend
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: of the silliness that we engage in a bit more
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: on the Matreon, but also perhaps a bit more structured
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: like a main feed episode. Life is so complicated. So
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: normally we have a guest. We don't have one this
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: time because we were about to record with our guests
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: and then something came up, but we weren't able to
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: reschedule with them because I'm about to go into surgery. Yes,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I'm about to have my sludge pouch removed. It's probably
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: it'll be gone. It's my gall bladder, but it's really
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: a sludge pouch. And if you need more information about
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, you'll just simply have to listen
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: to Sludge an American health care story, my podcast about
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: how the system here is very funked up and biased
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and broken. So give that listen. But so, we weren't
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: able to reschedule with our guest before my surgery, so
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: it's just Jamie and I doing this. Bed keeping is
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: but not too loose. Yeah, And this is the last
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: sludgey episode of the Bechtel Cast, which I think we're
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: all very grateful for it. It's sludge free after this.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: My mom sending you an edible arrangement. We're telling me
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: this earlier. I was like, well, I don't know, like
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: and she asked for your address. So maybe, but maybe
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: she's going to get him. She's just gonna show up.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: She's gonna use her jet blue points. Oh good for Jill.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: She loves her jet blue points. And I think all
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: of that past the Bechtel tests. Oh yes it did. Wow,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: great structure. Um so we analyze. Actually, I think my
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: sludge identifies as a man because it's vengeful trying to
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: ruin your life and invading my body and space and
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: only a man. And it is nice too because it
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: just means that will inherently miss it less that's gone anyway.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I want to make a cartoon of like
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: you're slow singing like, don't make me go do like
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: wait there, don't humanize my sludge the anthropomorphs like wait
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: before you behead me, doctor, I just want to plead
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: my case. Oh well, well, what if my sludge is
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: like a witch sort like and it's like being wrongfully
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: persecuted and really it's just it's suckers. Oh, today's gonna
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: be fun. Uh So we hadized movies using the Bechtel test,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: which I think we will. We brought up the mail
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: identifying sledge. A lot of it passed. Yes, uh so
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: used the Bechtel Test sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: as a jumping off point for discussion, and the Bechtel
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: test has has a couple of different requirements. Yeah, it
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: requires that there'll be two female identifying characters with names.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: We'll talk to each other about something other than a
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: man or a male sledge, of course, for more than
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: two lines of dialogue. Incredible. It's almost like with all
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: those steps, it's almost like it's like a spell in
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: a spell book it's true, or a curse stories curse.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I wonder how many times it's been said in movies.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: It has to be a lout there like it's a
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: spell or of course, I feel like there's like a
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: lot of Halloween time d cooms that probably used that.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: While we're talking about Practical Magic today, it's been a
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: long request. Yeah, it's just the two of us today.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: We're keeping it loose, so let's get into it. What's
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: your history with the film, Jamie So I first saw
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Practical Magic in Lansing, Michigan last year as a part
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: of the Capital City Film Festival. Is a show called
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Destroy All Cinema, and I was riffing live riffs. You'll
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: love to hear him on Practical Magic. What I try
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: hadn't seen with a comedy collective based out of Lansing
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: called Comedy Coven, So if you live in that area,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: please check them out. So Coven of Witches perhaps exactly.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: It consists of Tricia Chamberlain, Stephanie ander Chan, and Emily Surgett.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: They're all great. But so I first saw it in
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: a live capacity, and it was kind of fun to
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: try to piece together this movie in real time and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: try to be funny because I was just like, I
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: don't know what's happening. Um, And then I've seen a
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: couple of times to prep for this, but pretty short history. Okay,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: what's your history with Practical Magic. This is one of
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: those movies that I wasn't very familiar with throughout most
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: of my life, but I knew that it was something
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: that we were getting requested all the time from listeners.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, I should check this out
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: because eventually I'm sure we'll do an episode on it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: So I watched it probably for the first time, I
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: would say, like around a year ago. Also, and glad,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I did you know? It's a fun movie. It is
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: a weird movie. Weird it's structurally a bit confusing, but
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I also do get why people love it, So yeah,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: for sure. I think if I had um seen it
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: as a younger person, I would have like a much
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: stronger attachment to it and a pretty iconic cast as well.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Like it's quality regardless, getting to see Sandra bl Like
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: and Nicole Kidman as sisters, rules, Diane Weest is their
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Stockard Channing is there, and a young Evan Rachel would
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, one of the daughters, So there is
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I mean there. I get it's a very confusing movie,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: but everyone is committed a hundred percent, and so we
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: simply have no choice but to stand. Um, yeah, should
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: we get into it? I mean, I don't know what
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: was your actually I am curious what was your interest
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: in witchy culture and stuff like that when you were younger?
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Were you really interested in it? No? Not, not, I
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: would say at all. Um, I wasn't like I hate
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: it and I think it's stupid or anything like that.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: It just isn't something that ever piqued my interest. Well,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: what about you? I thought I was a witch until
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I was about eleven years old, and not a Harry Potter,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: which as all listeners at the podcast, will know I
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: was not a Harry Potter stand. As a child, I
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: thought I was like a practical magic kind of which
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: because I had I have two relatives who run a
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: new Age shop in Massachusetts, I was very steeped in
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: it's from a very young age, kind of like the
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: one that Sally runs in the movie. Yeah, yeah, except
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: like I mean even more so, but it was they
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: do not work there anymore, but yeah, like my my
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: aunt and uncle worked at a new Age shop and
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: would do readings and would do and you know, we're
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: very nurture. I think it's weird because I grew up
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: going to church, but I think that like new Age
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: stuff was what appealed to me more in terms of
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: like religion and like shaping my self identity. But I
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: really love it. And it's funny because I think that
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: this movie is kind of peak, like scratching the surface
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: of that culture in kind of a very basic way
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: that I think probably would have been appealing to me
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: had I seen it at the time. But yeah, I'm
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: always just any time that there's a movie with which
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: is I'm like, oh yes, because my mom fully was like,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: you're a witch, you have powers? It was like, yes,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: that's so cool. Yeah, it was cool. The growing I'm
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: thinking you're a witch. I can't recommend it enough. It
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: is very fun. My like family because I was effectively
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: raised as an atheist, Like it was a completely secular household,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: so I had no religion growing up, and I think
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: because of that, I just nothing like supernatural or like
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: mystic or magical or anything like that really appealed to me.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Is something that I would want to, like embrace is
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: anything other than fiction, Like I love reading fiction about it.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: But I wasn't like I was like this is going
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: to be a part of my lifestyle or anything like that.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Totally I would appealed about it to me as a kid, especially,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: was like I didn't like going to tread like it
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: was weird. I think that like we just went because
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: my parents were like, we're supposed to do that. But
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: like I went to Catholic churches for a little while,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I went to like a Congregational church for a little while.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I mean my parents and my oun uncle called it paganism.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this technically even falls under that umbrella,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: but what appealed to me and what appealed to me
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: about witchy culture was that it was the only like
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: semi religious structure that empowered you a little bit and
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: gave you some control as opposed to the shame and
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: the constant asking for forgiveness that from the other religions
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: that I had experienced, where like this was like, Oh,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: it's like, uh, you know, you're being empowered to you know,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: whether you're casting spells or doing rituals or whatever. It
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: is like you have some ability to cause change and
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: make things happen. Interesting. So there's a whole discussion to
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: be had kind of about which is witchcraft the history
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: there in all that, Yeah, we can, We'll get there,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: but for now, let's discuss the story it recap Okay,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: So we begin learning that women in the Owens family
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: are witches and they have magical powers. The first of
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: them was their ancestor Maria from colonial Puritan times, Yes,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: and she was banished on an island with her unborn
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: child for being a witch. And she stayed there waiting
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: for her lover to come rescue her, but he never came,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: so she cast a spell that she would never again
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: feel the agony of love, which eventually turned into a
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: curse on any man who would love an Owens woman,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: and that curse will kill them, and it will straight
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: up kill them. Then we meet to Owen's sisters as children,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Sally and Alien. Their father died because of this curse.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: There's like this beetle that comes around and makes this
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: like chirping sound, and that's how you know the man
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: is going to die soon, right. I love that plot device.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like a beetle or something. And
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: then their mom dies I guess shortly after that of
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a broken heart. So the two sisters go to live
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: with their two aunts, Franny that's Stockard Channing's character, and
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Jet Diane Weest and their aunts are also witches who
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: teach them magic. They live somewhere in New England. I
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: was guessing either they I think they live on an island.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: I think that they might live like on Nantucket. Yeah,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: that's what I was thinking. It gives it has given
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: me some Nantucket vibes. Yeah, I would say Nantucket or
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Martha's vineyards. Yeah, surprise it didn't take place in like Salem,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: but who knows you, I don't know. And everyone in
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: the town hates the whole family for being witches, which
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: which you're a bit. You're like, let's punch that up,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: all right? There? Does it pass the back to test?
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Though maybe it does, But I was just like, man,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: there are three writers on this movie, and we couldn't
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: we can't do better than which, which you're a bit.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: The kids are like not smart enough to come up
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: with something more clever. Kids are geniuses. Sorry, there should
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: have been in Shakespearean pros there i ambic pentameter. Yes, okay,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: So we get to know the two girls a little
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: bit better. Jilly can't wait to fall in love, but
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Sally says she hopes she never falls in love because
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: she sees how much agony it causes people. So Sally
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: casts a spell, a love spell about a man who
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: she thinks will never exist, because if he doesn't exist,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: she won't have to fall in love with him, and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: then he won't die, um, and she won't have to
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: deal with a broken heart. Right. This imaginary man can
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: flip pancakes. His favorite shape is a star, and he
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: has one green eye and one blue eye, which is like,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like there are people out there
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: like that, Like I think it's kind of a low yeah,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, I guess that finding some with two
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: different colored eyes is a little more difficult. But I'm like,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: pant likes pancakes and stars. That's like you're describing a
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: five year old like, but sure, yes. So then we
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: cut to the sisters as adults. Sally is Sandra Bullock,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Jilly is Nicole Kidman, and Jilly runs away with this
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: guy that she's in love with Nicole Kidmen. In terms
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: of having her Australian accent not out, it's so different
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: from movie to movie to the point where I'm like,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: is it like it depends on how she's being directed,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: But it's like it's like sort of at Bay. Really
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: I wasn't noticing that. But also there's certain I don't know.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I guess my Nicole Kidman meter is very sensitive because
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: sometimes I'm just like, how did you come on? There's
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: a few but whatever, I mean, you do watch a
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: lot of big little eyes, so that makes sense. Yeah,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: And and she, you know, at the end of the
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: first season, for some reason, she's just like, I'm Australian,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, we know, but you're not
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: supposed to be right now where we'll have a talk
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: about it. So Julie runs away with this guy, but
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: meanwhile Sally wants to have like kind of a more
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: like grounded quote normal life, like the nuclear family. Yes,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: and then Sally spots this guy, Michael, and she and
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: him suddenly fall in love, almost as if a spell
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: were cast on as it we don't know. And then
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: they start kissing in the street. A Faith Hill song
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: is playing. Is it? It's this kiss? Yes, this kiss
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: one of the many moments this movie is totally all over.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: It's just completely totally inconsistent to the where you're just
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: like constantly suffering from whiplash from the previous scene. Faith Hill,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I think, is one of the first, all best, second
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: of all, most jarring from all the South, Like this
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: is supposed to be like kind of like a you know,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: like you kind of expected more Fiona Appoly song there,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: like at least like an artist with some more mysterious
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: witchy vibes. Oh sure, I wouldn't describe faith Hill as
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: that artist. Well, especially because like if you hear country
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: music like that, it conjures up the South, you know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: the American South and not New England. So yeah, it
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: was it was choices were made. I don't I don't
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: think it's a bad choice, that it a weird choice,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: but I do like it. As with most things in
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: this movie, you're like sure. So cut to a few
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: years later, Sally and Michael are married. They have two daughters, hers,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: but that death beetle starts coming around and starts chirping
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: a little bit outside. Sorry, I don't effects. What if
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: beetle juice can turn into a beetle and then it's
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the same. What if beetle juice in practical magic take
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: place in the same extended universe? I would buy it.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: I would. I wish that the faith Hill song played
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: during beetle Juice? This what another faith Hill song? I
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: can't name a second one. I don't know nothing against her.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I just wasn't really there, sure you know, I just
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: know that one. Okay, So the beetles chirping, and Sally's
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: husband gets hit by a truck and dies in a
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: very dramatic the fruit flying in that scene because he's
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: a fruit salesman and slow mo fruit. And then we're like,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: oh no, her love kill to him because women's emotions
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: are lethal. Ah God, Well, anyways, fruitgo's lion? Yes, bye
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: bye yep. So then Sally goes to her aunt's and
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: she's like, this curse is real and it's why my
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: husband died. And then they revealed that they had cast
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: a spell on the two of them to make them
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: fall in love, and she's like even more furious, and
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: she tells them to bring him back from the dead,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: because their witches, they have the ability to do that,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: but they refuse because if they do that, he'll come
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: back all dark and unnatural. So Sally just has to
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: accept what has happened, and she is grieving, and then
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: she decides to stop doing magic. Meanwhile, Jilly has been
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: traveling around. She's partying, she's meeting a bunch of people.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: She's got a wig on and a classic kidman wig.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: I've had a shout out I have. Well, I'll do
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: it in a second. But there was recently a power
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: ranking of all of Nicole Kimman's wigs. She was not
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: wearing a wig in a movie. May not know what
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: her hair is. I thought that was I just thought
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: that was her natural hair in this movie. I they're
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: on the wig ranking. I mean, and I'm just using this, Okay,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I've visited this a few days ago. Uh, this is
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: from ques dot com by Singia sing kurts Um, and
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: it's a ranking of all of her wigs. Based on
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: this list, it does seem like she is usually wearing
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: a wig, even when it seems like she's not, including
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: in Um, like I thought that was her natural hair
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: in Mulin Rouge. Apparently it is not. It is a wig.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: So I just go off the assumption that Nicole Kimman
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: is always wearing a wig. What if she is bald underneath,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: making her the baldest woman in charge? That would explain
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: so much, really, sure Wood, we can't. But anyways, she's
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: got she's got intense nineties banks and I love it
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: in this movie definitely, And I think right now she's
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: in Arizona with this guy, Jimmy Angel Love Sure, who
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: turns out to be abusive. So Sally goes to rescue
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Jilly from him, but he kidnaps them both and holds
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: them hostage. So they drug him but accidentally overdose and
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: kill him, and they're like, oh my god, what are
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: we gonna do. We're going to go to jail. The
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: cops won't believe it's self defense, so Jilly has the
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: idea that they cast the spell on him to bring
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: him back to life, and since he's already dark and unnatural,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: they figure it won't matter, right, so they go back
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to the aunt's house. They do the spell, they put
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: the line in the coconut, etcetera. Sure that happens, right then? Yeah? Um?
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: And then he comes back, but he is aggressive and
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: he starts choking Jilly, so they knock him out and
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: then they bury him in the backyard. But they decide
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: not to tell the aunts, right, but Jimmy's spirit starts
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: haunting them and he ruins their midnight margarite a night. Rude, Rude.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: They got one of the most the most iconic scene
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: of this movie and the most totally dissonant, I think,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: because there are children upstairs and they are screaming, screaming,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and then they're immediately sober. And in one moment they're
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: like laughing and dancing and having a good time, and
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: then the next moment they're like calling each other like
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: sluts and witches. And then the next scene requires for
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: them to be stone cold sober, even though we just
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: saw them being fully blackout drunk. You know, it's just
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: it is what it is. We just have to we
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: just have to buy it their witches they can they
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: have to spell the sober or is it a curse? Oh?
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: It keeps getting me. It's funny, Okay. So then this
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: guy Gary shows up. He is a detective investigating the
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: disappearance of Jimmy Angelo, and Sally gets flustered and accidentally
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: tells him that Jimmy kidnapped Jilly. But they got away
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: using his car because they like have his car, and
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: he's like, why is his car in your driveway? And
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, yeah, sloop sees. But they're like, but
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: we don't know where he is. So Gary keeps hanging
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: around town. He's trying to gather information. And then Sally's
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: daughters find Sally's spell book or curse book, and they
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: find that the spell of the made up man that
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: she made when she was little, like the guy who
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: has the eyes and the pancakes and the stars, and
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: they start to realize that Gary has all of those
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: traits that she described in the spell curse. They're like, wait, Gary,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: do you like pancakes? They're like, oh my god, it's
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: that he can flip them. You're right, he doesn't even
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: like them. We just can flip them. He knows him
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: away once he slipped Gary god honestly setting a pretty
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: low bar for for the dream man, but sure. And
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: then Gary finds Jimmy's ring because a frog barth sit up,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: which he loved to see. Good practical effect, practical magic,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: look at that little cinema knowledge. And then he's like,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: you ladies are in big trouble. You better get a lawyer.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: And then Sally decides to tell him the truth, which
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: she sort of does, except that she's like speaking in riddles,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: and then they start kissing, and then she notices that
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: he has one green eye and one blue eye and
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: she's like, no, I can't. And then Jimmy's spirit shows
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: up and Gary is like, what the funk is happening?
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: And then the sisters kill the spirit, or at least
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: they think they do, and then Sally tells Gary that
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: she had cast this spell when she was a little girl,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and she's like, that's why you're here and we'll never
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: know if this is even true love or if it's
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: just this spell curse thing, and he's like, I don't
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: believe in curses. I wished for you too, and we're like,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: oh my, goh, Mike. But then we find out that
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Jimmy's spirit is still around and has possessed jillyhoo Sees.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: So they need a coven of twelve women to banish
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: this spirit. So Sally, who has been made like the
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: top of the call tree at her daughter's school because
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Jilly cast a spell to make her that, So she
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: called all the moms from her daughter's school to come
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: help and be a part of this coven. And together
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: they exercise Jilly and kill Jimmy's ghost and sweep his
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: dust out of the house because women be cleaning, be sweeping,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: but also which imagery brooms. And then Sally and Gary
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: kiss because Gary comes back, and then Fun and then
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: they fly off the roof because it's Halloween. And that
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: is the story. So let's take a quick break and
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: then we'll come right back to discuss. And we're back.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Welcome back. Oh boy, there's there's a lot to discuss,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: as per huge. So, I mean, something that I wanted
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: to just sort of get out there right at the
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: jump is the this movie is an extremely white movie,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: as our most movies still, but particularly I mean in
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: the late nineties. This is very very typical. But I
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: think it is kind of especially glaring when you're tackling
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: the subject of witches and being kind of mothered for
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: for that, because just historically is worth mentioning that women
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: of color, and specifically black women have been mothered and
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: accused of being which is just as much as white women.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: But as is normal with American history, the struggle of
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: women of color with the exact same issues compounded with race,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: are kind of generally erased from the narrative. And I
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: think that we see that in virtually every story about
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: the Salem witch Trials too, Like, there were also black
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: women were killed and demonized during the witch trials, and
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: yet most of the narratives that we see you're focused
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: on white ladies. So um, so yeah, I just wanted
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: to mention that right at the jump of Like, I
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: love which representation, but it is just not extended to
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: women who are not white in American movies very often.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Even I mean, I think that our other main witchy
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: movie we've covered, The Craft, one of the witches in
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: that movie is black, but she's criminally underwritten and just
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: done a disservice by the movie as a whole, and
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: the focus is always on the white girls. I mean,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: we've kind of revisited these late nineties classic mistakes over
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: and over, but this movie is certainly guilty of it
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, another thing, and this is less of
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: a kind of historical erasure thing and more of just
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: like I suppose, metaphorical or just sort of like a
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: thing that happens in the narrative. But so the Owens
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: women are, they're always mothered right by the community who
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: has cast them out and called them witches and bitches um.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: And then there's a moment towards the end as Sally
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: is like calling the phone tree and she's like, hey,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: you know that thing that everyone's been whispering about me
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: about how I'm a witch? Well it's true. So she
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: effectively comes out. And then a scene right after that
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: is like her colleague at like the like which shop
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: that she runs, Uh, that character is like did you
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: hear Sally just came out? Which of course is language
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: used for queer like that, And so it's like taking
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: the like borrowing or maybe even appropriating this experience that
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: we thrust upon queer people, a burden that we put
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: upon them because of how heteronormative society is. And it's like, well,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: if you don't. If you are not hetero, then it
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: is your burden responsibility to come out. And then to
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: ascribe that to what Sally is doing I thought was
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: peculiar at it was just another bizarro misguided like what
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: was the objective of this scene? So yeah, that those
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: are a couple of things right off right at the top,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: that we're not the best choices to be made. Yeah,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: so there's yeah, there's definitely a lot of issues. What
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: is What did you like about this movie? What did
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: you feel this movie did well? Well, there's a fair
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: amount because it is a predominantly female cast. There it
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: is largely about women, at least of the characters that
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: we get to know the most supporting each other. They
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: do not have the support of their community until the
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: very end. But even that's nice when like the moms
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: who have been like you know, making snide comments and
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: casting them out of the community. Uh, they even come
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: to help a woman in need. So I like that
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: it's largely about like women supporting women, says the supporting sisters. Um,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: there's three generations of sisters and which is cool. Cool,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: they're all living together, they're all practicing, you know, witchcraft.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I like that they also make mistakes. It's not like
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: the like the perfect female friendships that we sort of
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: see in movies where they're like, you know, women can
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: only be friends and connected if they do it perfectly,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: which is a trope that drives me insane. And I mean,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: every every woman in this movie is human, right as
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: well as being a witch u and and makes mistakes
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: that the aunts make the well intentioned mistake of being like,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: but we wanted you to have love in your life
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: and she's like, well, now my husband is dead, and
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: where where's this scene where Sandra Bullock is staring at
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: her husband's grave Because I miss you so fucking much.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: We should do another episode on the Rock. I feel
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: like with the benefit of you know, year and from like,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I think, I think there's more to say that I
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: missed you so much. But then it was like the
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: the inverse of um like these like perfect female friendships
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: and relationships is something else we see that's very troubling movies,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: which is women hating each other for no real irrationally.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: And neither of those things happened in this movie, right,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: which is great, and I especially do I mean, and
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: there are problematique things that happen inside of this relationship.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: But I do like the relationship between Sally and Julie.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I like that they're very different, but the I don't know,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: just even like the little touch of like they can feel,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: they can instinctively know when the other person is in trouble,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: especially when Jilly, even though they have like their differences
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: in conflicts that um Sally is Julie's first call when
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: she is being abused was a moment that I was like, Oh,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: that's like a real you know, like that was, Oh,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: that that's like a beautiful sister thing that actually felt
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: in a movie that does not feel grounded in reality
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: at all, like a more grounded good moment. And and
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I know that it's like, you know, we're not endorsing
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: murder here, but the fact that you know, their bond
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: is so strong and Sally generally, I mean, she believes
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Julie like they it's Sally's annoyed that Jillie's in this predicament,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: which I don't think it's necessarily fair, but she is
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: also like, I obviously believe you, and uh, if we
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: got to kill this guy, we gotta kill this guy,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: you know, which you know that there's not a one
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: to one application in the real world. But I do
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: like that, like intense loyalty and trust and belief of
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: each other for sure, that they even make a pact
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: that like they must die at the same time, like
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: if one of them it's going to die, it's gonna die.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I love childhood pats and the people who take them seriously.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Like my me and my two cousins were so so
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: we all thought we were witches. This was like in
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the same time, and we made a pact we were
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: like between ten and twelve where we were like, oh, well,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: if we get married someday we have the other, we
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: won't choose a maid of honor. Both of you will
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: be my maids of honor. And then they're keeping that promise,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: which I'm like, oh, that's so It's so nice and
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: it makes me cry to think about. But I'm also like,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: we were stupid. Do whatever you want. And also being
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: a maid of honor is really hard. I don't want
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: to do it twice. But you know, here we are,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Just the closeness that they show,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: and I mean I was even getting some someon Louise
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: vibes from this movie. But it's it's like just because
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: it was our redhead and brunette with an inseparable blond. No,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: because they kill a man, they oh, that's true, and
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: they have to They think about going to the police,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: but they're like, the police won't believe us, because police
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: often do not believe women if they're being you know,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: if they're victims of assault or anything like that. But
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: this movie is if Thelma and Louise were witches and
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: which Susan and Susan Sarandon falls in love with the
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Harvey Kitel character, So I thought that was very true funny.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean they kill they kill an abuser. Uh,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: they contemplate going to the police, saying it was self defense.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: They know they won't be believed, so they have to
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: take matters into their own hands. And that's pretty much
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: what Louise. That's true, and it's and you know, maybe
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: this movie is a little less gracefully written, but but
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: all the main points were there this movie. This is
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: also like kind of unrelated, but this movie is directed
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: by Joan Didion's nephew, So if not feminist icon, feminist
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: icon adjacent to be sure. Griffin done, Griffin done, yeah,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and it was written by let's see screenwriters were Robin's Swygert. Yes,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Robin Swygert is very cool. She has written a lot
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: of iconic movies including Little Women, which will be covering
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: on the cast soon, Matilda, The Jane Austen Book Club,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: and she wrote she helped. She was one of the
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: credited writers on Memoirs of a Geisha and Curious Case
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: of Benjamin Button. She's written a lot interesting um. She
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: was one of the writers, as was Akiva Goldsman. I
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: don't really know her background. His background he wrote Batman
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Forever Batman and Robin I Robot I am Legend Cinderella Man,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: so this is kind of an outlier in his catalog.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: And then the final writer was Adam Brooks. Adam Brooks
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: has credits including Wimbledon, Bridget Jones, The Edge of Reason, Okay,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: go Off King. So it's written co written by two men,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: one woman, but it's based on a novel by a woman,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Alice Hoffman, who is an icon in that she lives
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: in Boston. Yes, I saw a lot of signed. Alice
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Hoffman's locally swish, but she's she's a She's written a
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: lot of popular books I don't. I don't really know.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would be curious to see to know
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: how this strays from the from the book, but I'm
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: not sure. Yeah, I have not read, as per usual
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: book podcast, haven't read a book, so so sorry. But
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: if you do have insight, um, feel free to offer
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: it in the comments. Um. And if you've read a book,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: feel free to just tweet at us and brag about it,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: because it ain't easy. Who has the talks are long?
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I fall asleep. So yeah, I mean, other things to
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: like about this movie I think are that. I mean, yeah,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: it's just it's just largely a story about women supporting
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: each other. Because as you as you you know already
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: pointed out, it's Sally helping Jilly with her abusive boyfriend.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Like it's just no questions asked, She just like drops everything,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: gets on the next flight and us to help her. Uh.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Then we see the scene where Jilly learns that Sally
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: has never picked at the top of the phone tree
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: chain thing at her daughter's school, and she goes and
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: cast that spell that so that she's at the top.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: It's very very lovely, like the portrayal of motherhood I
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: thought was lovely and or you know, just female gradianship
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: in general, because we're talking about the aunts, um, the sisters.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: The sisterhood is I love. I do love in in
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: movies when two women band together to kill a predator,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: it is very cathartic and fun to watch, especially when
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: it's a frosty tipped loser like Jimmy Angel Love he
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: was full spiritually had frosty tips, though he definitely spiritually
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: had them. I also like that, Um, they were very different,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: as you already said. Also like they had very different lifestyles,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: like just it's all about like going on and fucking
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: a bunch of people, it seems, whereas Sally wanted the
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: more kind of traditional nuclear family unit lifestyle. But like
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: neither of them ever judged the other for the they wanted.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: There were some like light teasing, which feels kind of
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: on par for how sisters treat each other, but like, yeah,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: it did feel like there wasn't really a value judgment
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: placed on either of them, even by the movie on
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: like this is just how this character is chosen to live,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: and both of them. And it's also like because I
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: you know, like a red flag that I would immediately
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: assume because they are kind of as I love that
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: they're different, but they're you know, they're written kind of
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: like trophy different, Like this is the fun one and
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: this is the one that wants the family, Like it's
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: basically like the Charlotte and the Samantha, right, which but
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: but but I feel like what would normally happen which
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't here? Which is great? Is that um, the fun
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: one quote unquote is either mocked or punished in some
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: way for being you know, like sexually active, which is
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: like such a you know, age old trope. But they both,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, they both get into pretty deep ship and
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: like it. I don't think that necessarily one of them
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: is more screwed over than the other because you know,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman, although it is she's the one that ends
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: up I think the only difference is the men that
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: they end up with, at least briefly. Um is that
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Nicole Kidmen, the sexually active independent uh you know, left
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: her hometown one is the one that ends up in
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: a relationship with an abuser, whereas Sally, who wants the
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: nuclear family, ended up with a sweet pie who loved
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: her but then was hit by a truck because she
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: loved him too. Much right, But then also like because
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman's character ends up with this abuser who they
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: then kill and then she doesn't like get another guy
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: at the end, which is great, Yeah, but which is great,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: But I feel like that's almost maybe like nineties narratives
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: kind of punishing her, maybe arguably for like you mess
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: you had a shot and you messed it up. But
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: this this nice lady, she had a husband and yes
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: he died because the Beatle was there. But also then
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: he gets she gets to fall she gets to fall
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: in love with this other guy. Yeah, that would say.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: So that's like, yeah, I totally see what you're saying.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: And the fact that Sandra Bullock gets to date two
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: great guys and Nicole Kipman gets one horrible abuser um
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: is kind of like and it's like to the point
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: where you're like, I don't even know that the writers
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: were consciously making that value judgment, but it does sort
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: of when you're in over analysis moment, you're like, the
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: optics aren't great, and of course, like you and I
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: don't see like a woman getting a relationship as a
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: reward the way that like a lot of narratives but
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: this but this narrative does see first as a reward.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Every movie considers hetero relationship between two boring people the best,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: the best, the us that you can expect from life.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Um so yeah. And and it also you know, like
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: people in who desire a nuclear family, it's not like
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: they don't sometimes end up in abusive relationships, and you know,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: reinforcing the idea that every nuclear family is impervious to
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: abuse and conflict. It's a dairy Hollywood narrative that you're fed.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Um so, yes, maybe we are over analyzing it a
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: little bit, but it's how we feel. That's our job. Okay,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: that's our job. That's how that's why you pay zero
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: dollars to listen to this. Okay, we've gotta take a
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: quick break, but let's come back soon, shall we. Yeah,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: let's great, and we're back. Well, I can't believe you
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: cast so many spells? Or were they curses? During that
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: that break? They were curses? I liked, all right, what
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: would you like to discuss next? Kind of continue? Do
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: me a little bit off of the romantic interests that
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the movie has for the characters. I feel, and I
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: say this a lot, but here we go again. I
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: feel that the romantic storyline between Sandra Bullocks character Sally
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: and Aidan Quinn Gary is not necessary and probably didn't
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: need to be in the movie. My guess is this
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: is a studio notes relationship, or I feel I wouldn't
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: be surprised if it was in the original the novel
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: and it was just adapted that way. I hard to say.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: We can't make that call at all, having not read,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: but either way, I would have liked the story a
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: bit better if it had just been two women having
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: to deal with this abuser. They kill him accidentally. Again,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: we don't endorse murder on the Bectel cast. Yeah, but
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: this is a it's a movie, but it's a movie,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: and so killing in the movie, right, they have to
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: deal with the aftermath of that. I think that could
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: have been handled just as well and effectively had there
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: not been this romantic storyline wedged in, because that ends
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: up being a weird thing where he stops doing his
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: job as a criminal investigator because if this spell curse
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: that she's cast and he's like, yeah, we've ruled his
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: death as an accident, and we we don't know this
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: body is not anywhere. We never found the body. We
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: don't know what happened, but my job as a criminal investigator,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put that on the back burner. Just
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: with this woman, it does feel like and like his
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: character Ultimately, it feels like an attempt at raising steaks
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: because he's brought in a like oh no, now there's
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: someone on their tail. But yeah, he's kind of like
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: the way his character is treated as like, oh, like,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: you don't get the feeling that if he finds out,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: he's going to be like, you're going to jail. Like
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: it doesn't really heighten the stakes that much. Is just
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: for me, it was like just a distraction of like
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: I guess aid and Quinn is here or whatever. I
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: don't know. I wasn't a big fan of that either.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I thought that, you know, I would have liked a
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: little more of maybe the daughters there was other use
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: of that real estate or that the aunts can do something. Yeah,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: the fact him being there is an obstacle, fine, But
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: the fact that then he and Sally end up in
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: a relationship, uh didn't work for me. And he was
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: never even like a particularly like he just doesn't because
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: he's immediately like there's there's like chemistry between them you're like,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: he doesn't seem like a particularly like difficult obstacle, Like
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know, right. Um. The fact also that one
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: of the huge vehicles that like drives this whole narrative
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: is the idea of like romantic love and it's like,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: so it's in love with who, who's in a relationship?
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: How does that affect our lives? Like, so let's talk
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: about that too, because that was like one of the
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: things on on this rewatch where you're like, we really
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: only with some exceptions, like there's a little spell that
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: she does at the school. There's like small little plot
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: spells that we see that we're like, oh, that's she's
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: stirring her coffee with magic, like basic kind of stuff.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: They You're like, Okay, they can move things with their minds,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: that's cool, But you really only ever see their magic
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: in practice as it is related to men um and
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: as it is related to their like different relationships. And
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: I think that that is like another thing that you're
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: just like like there, you know, I would have liked
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: to see, like what can they actually do outside of
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: navigating around this curse that I think is also inherently
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: like there's something did in there too, where the concept
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: of the curses you know, any man or is it
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: a spell though it's a curse, it's always a curse.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: But the idea that you know, all men who ever
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: love these women will die just sort of you know,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: like goes into that uh sort of nasty trope that
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: just means like women's emotions are somehow a dangerous thing
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: and that um, treating a woman kindly and and like
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: loving a woman properly is somehow dooming you like it
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: does sort of tie into and I feel like doesn't
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: isn't really examined by the movie that much of like
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Reasons that which is people who are perceived to be
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: which is used to be executed, which was just like
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: women with too much power, It was a fear of
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: it was either like an excuse to get rid of
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: woman that the powers that be didn't like uh, were
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: stepped out of line in some way, or it was
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: a condemnation of women in stem and like womeners and yeah,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: which is where usually considered thought to be witches when
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: they were stepping outside of societal norms and and disproportionately
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: women who were menopausal or post menopausal were so like
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: older or elderly women were often thought to be which
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: is more so um poor women, widowed women or never
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: married women were all like these types of women were
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: to be more likely to be persecuted for being witches. Right,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: And so it's just like the entire culture surrounding the
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: persecution of people accused of being witches just ties into this,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: like fear of women straying out of what is their
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: societally expected role. Right, It's just like stepping out of
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: line means you're more likely to literally get murdered for
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: no reason. And I think that this movie does some
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: things to challenge it, but it it is again a
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: very late nineties safe challenge because most of their magic
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: is in direct relation to hetero stuff and results, you know,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: the result, like you were just talking about, is romantically
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: fulfilling hetero relationship for the character who is not more
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: sexually active, who more subscribed to the the idea of
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: the American woman role. Yes, but yeah, I mean just
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: in general, like just in terms of what I think
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: would have been more fun to watch, just to see,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: you know, how they could use their magic in ways
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: that didn't directly relate to men, right for sure. Even so,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: I think It is nice to see positive representation of
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: like witchy characters in media because media has usually done
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: what society has done in terms of its treatment of
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: people who were assumed to be witches, which is which
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: is too, which is wow words, um, which is to
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: paint them in very negative ways. Um, which characters in
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: movies are usually like the evil, the yeah, scary bad,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: which is who are evil? And the farious and I
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: think normally jealous too is a defining quality of like
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: the traditional Hollywood which character is that the snow white
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: evil stepmother, which yeah, like envy is really tight in
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: and that has kind of nothing to do with the nineties,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: which which is fun because I mean, which ha there,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: and this is kind of where this is like coming
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: out in a moment where it's kind of like a
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: peak like cool trendy nineties, which because it's like at
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: this time we have the Craft I think comes out
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: shortly after this. We have a Craft was I think
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: a couple years before is it before? Okay, so we
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: have that, we have Sabrina the teenage, which Harry Potter
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: is about to come out in a cocus pocus like
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: the nineties is fully Halloween Halloween Town for crying outlet,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Like it's like this is a big moment for sympathizing
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: with witch characters. Also the Witches of Eastwick, which I
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: have not seen and don't know what the movie is about,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: but if it might be an example as well, I
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: don't know. We don't know if someone has um every
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: time something like specifically this comes up and like, Hey,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: if anyone's written their thesis paper on this, email me
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: a PDF, because I would be curious as to like,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: because like the mid to late nineties is loaded, like
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: there's just this huge boost in which characters being portrayed
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: sympathetically and not just sympathetically, but being portrayed as like
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: cool and aspirational, and I wonder why that is. I wonder,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: like societally, what was was what was going on that
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: made that made that cool. I'm glad it happened. I
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: would I wanted to come back because it was you know,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: inclusive this time. Yeah, definitely. It was a good departure
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: from the way which has had previously been represented, which
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: is also not which is also not at all reflective
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: of the women who were actually condemned for being which
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: is throughout history. So it's just been so muddied and
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: it's weird. I mean, I I like the the all
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: cool reboot of which is I think it's fun and
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: and awesome and like it just was very influential on
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: me as a kid too. Like so I'm very biased
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: in saying it because I was just like, oh, this
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: is my ship, but it was very cool. Um, can
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: we talk a little bit about the Jimmy situation. Yes,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: let's talk about him. So there is like the depiction
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: in some ways of an abusive relationship in this movie
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: between Jilly and Jimmy, And I will say, I know
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: this is like a polarizing topic and everyone's going to
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: have a different opinion. I was kind of pleasantly surprised
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: with how this movie handled it, partially because he gets killed,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: which is great and cathartic, but I, I I mean, we
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: sort of talked about this already, But I really liked
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: that Jilly called her sister right away when the relationship
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: truly became volatile and saw support from her sister. I
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: thought that that was like a pretty realistic, strong move
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: on the part of that. Like, I was weirdly, like
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: very affected by it that every time I see that
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: scene and I don't know. I mean, I I it's
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: also implied in a way that was I think it's
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: just like that relationship because it did get so cartoony,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: and I think Jimmy has maybe a little too cartoony
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: for an abuser, uh in in some ways where it's like,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: you know, he's up and then bonk him on the
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: head and he's down, Like there is like a cartoony
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: nature of how they kill him. But another thing that
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: could have affected me and I was like, Oh, that's
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: like more nuanced than I would expect from this movie,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: I guess, is that Julie makes it clear that she
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: really did, like have feelings for him and loved him
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: and didn't have guilt about that and was like honest
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: about that with her sister. And that was another thing
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: that I was like, Oh, that's more than I would
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: expect from a movie like this. And I also found
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: to be just I'm like, oh, I don't know how
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: often you see that, because you know, so often when
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: abusive relationships are portrayed, we see the characters in the
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: movie being like, well, why don't Julie, why don't you
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: like just all the kind of normal blaming stuff for
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: women that are in abusive relationships, but to hear her,
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: you know, say genuinely that she did love him and
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: she was afraid of him, and you know now she
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: we'd see the moment where she says, enough is enough.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I need to seek out help to get out of
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: this situation. I thought was was kind of well done
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: and right. I was again just be I think mostly
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: because it came out where it's like, you know, everything
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: is blamey and weird. I was. I was like very
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: impressed with like the way that that played out, and
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: like we've discussed before that Sally doesn't um at any
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: point not believe her sister UM. And then you know,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: however cartoonish I think. I mean, it would have been
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: a little weird if they didn't kill him in a weird,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: cartoony way, I guess, just because of the tone of
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: the movie, but in a very cathartic way. I think
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: for women who have been in abusive relationships, it is
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: always very fun for us to be like and then
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: he gets killed and no one gets in trouble because
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: that's just like a fun fantasy. UM. But yeah, I
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: don't know. I was generally impressed with how this movie
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: handled it. Right, because all relationships are complicated, including ones
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: with abusers. So but movies often failed to explore or
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: any of the complexities of those relationships and usually just
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: paint the abuser as being just like extremely cartoony and
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: he is, especially after he killed Sillier and Sillier but
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: up till that, but before that, Yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: I think the movie handled that fairly responsibly. It was nice.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah and there And I think we've discussed this, I
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: think more on the main trion weirdly than on the
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: main feed. But the idea that I mean just statistically,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: women are more commonly abused and assaulted by men that
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: they already know as opposed And that's not to say
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: I mean it does happen with strangers, but I think
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: that there is this disproportionate representation in movies of it
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: happening from a stranger um and less often from characters
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: that the female character already knows. And I'm sure that
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: that has something to do with the discomfort with male
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: audience members seeing themselves or qualities of themselves in an
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: abusive character. And that's something I think it was. Was
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: it the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo episode where we
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: had like a conversation about that. And I'm not saying
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: that Jimmy is like a character that men will really
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: see themselves in because he is like a late nineties
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: goth Um, which is not super common any longer, but
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: it is, I don't know, just like setting the groundwork.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I think for what is a more common abusive relationship
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: than what we see in movies? A lot was uh
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: you know, points for sure, points you hinted at the
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: bonking of the head, the sacred bonking of the head. Uh. Well,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought it up, because this is one
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: of many examples we see in a movie of a
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: woman using specifically a frying pan as a weapon. Um
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: it is, which is it is like a cartoon example. Yeah,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: So right after they bring Jimmy back to life after
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: they've killed him the first time with poison, Um they
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: bring a back to life, he starts choking and attacking Jilly,
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: so Sally bonks him on the head with a skillet. Um.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: You know, because women be using domestic items as weapons,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: they never get their own weapons. But I was like you,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: but you know, magic, like surely there's conjure up like
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: a thing to like make him go to sleep again
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: or something. I don't know, but um, I know you're
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: totally right, Like is like that's another confusing use of
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: like it's implied that they can do infinity magic, but
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: they only do like heater real relationship magic, which is like,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: come on, show me something else. Um. But I've been
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: I've been keeping a little tally of all the movies
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: that we see this very specific thing happening of a
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: woman bonking a man with a frying pan, Raiders of
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: the Last Art shuck a lot, um, yep, that happens.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Who framed Roger Rabbit? Those are
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: the only ones I could think of off the top
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: of my head, But I know there are more, because
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: I know we've talked about others. But yeah, it's um,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: it's a trope that this movie did choose to subscribe to,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: although they probably weren't even aware of that they were
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: doing it as they were writing it. But also, how
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: about that midnight Margarita scene? So much fun, iconic and
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: weird and every way it's so bizarre because it's sandwich
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: between two heavy scene. Yes, totally yes, weird and incongruous.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: I don't we're alert sure that was a word even
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: that was it was adjacent to a word that was
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: like I could. I'm like, man, if you were like
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: the director of that movie, that'd be so hard because
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: you're like, hm, it doesn't fit. But I like it
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: so much. I guess just put it in wherever. I
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: just I love to see women having fun in a
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: movie because you don't see it that much. You don't
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: see women get to have fun, fun together. Yeah, so
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: it was really nice. But then they are being like,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: you're a whitch, you're a slut. But then they do
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: you He's like when since when is being been a
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: crime in this family's right? Coming to the defense of
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: her sisters, like I'm we claiming the term, They're like alright,
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, no at this movie, uh, you know, unfortunately,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: and in some ways I can understand it was not
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: very successful. Um, it did not make back its budget unfortunately,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: which is you know, I mean, and and these are
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: big stars at this time, so I think it was
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: probably surprising that this movie didn't make its money back.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: And a lot of the criticism around it at the
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: time was based around the tonal issues, which you know,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: we can't deny them. So there wasn't even I mean
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: on the on the cursory check I did, because you know,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: we like to go back and see how movies were
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: reviewed because there's a lot of the especially the further
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: bike you go. Most film critics are white guys, and
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: so when movies come out for anyone that isn't them,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: they're like, hey, did it there? Or even just like
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: I liked it, but what I liked it, but like
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was written for me, and and
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: then be like I'm talking in a star it wasn't
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: made for me. Um, we're not as much of it.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: They're most of the criticism around this movie surrounded the
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: tonal issues, which is a valid criticism, and they're like,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: but Nicole Kidman and Sandra Book are great, would love
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: to see them in more movies, which I also agree with. Yeah, um,
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: just a couple of last things from me one other
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: film and Louise parallel both movies, and with either the
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: two women jumping off or driving off of a surface, Yeah,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: one goes far better than the other. Yep, So that's
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: still little keeping much. And then finally, there is a
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: black cat that keeps popping up in the movie Do
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: You Talk about it. Well, it's just that cats have
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: eight nipples, and that's cat facts with Caitlin, but also
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: black cats there's still superstition around them. Black cats are
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: much harder to get adopted in like places like the
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: SPCA and stuff like that, because people still have a
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: superstition around black cats. Can I tell you something? Yes? Please?
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Two years after this movie was released, when I was
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: seven years old, I adopted a black cat and he
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: lived for fifteen years and he was really mean, always mean.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: He loves me, probably had a curse on him. He
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: was no he was taught much like my current pet.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: He was very into toxically performing his gender. But you know,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: r I p the cat. We tried to give him
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: a name, but he was just here the cat. My
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: roommate has a black cat right now. So positive representation
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: of black cats and movies, and this movie does it.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: So I would say it's pretty neutral that the cat
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: isn't as much of a character as it should be.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: It doesn't speak like Salem, And that was actually a
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: really stupid creative decision. Why wasn't the cat a puppet?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: Wasn't the frog a puppet? Erasure? Alfred will init should
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: have played the frog. It was just a grown man
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: in a frog suit. Like but I just found out
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: today that Paddington on ice. I'm very excited for you
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: in London. Go back. I can't afford that. You know,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: you have sledge costs. They're Anastasia is happening near us
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: for the next couple of weeks. Ice are just regular
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: wish on ice, just on regular but still pretty cool.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: Talk to me when it's on a slippery surface. I
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: saw Anna's Asia on ice as a kid. I remember
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: the wig, the raspute and Beard kept flying. Oh it
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: was great. I love ice shows. Okay, let's do Anitania again.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Well that's practical magic everyone. Yes, this was so fun. Yeah.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: So if you like the style of this episode, you'll
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: love our matreon. Yeah this is literally the matreon is horizontal,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: the main feet is vertical, and that's just kind of
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: the difference exactly. Um yeah, thank you so much for
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: uh for a wait, we have to do a bunch
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: of stuff. I forgot how our show. I was literally
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: looking at prices for tickets on Anasthesia rate a sec.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: Does this movie pass the Bechdel tests? Yes, it does,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: it does. It does pretty handling a lot between a
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: lot of different characters. Yeah, there's sometimes like again, like
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: we are always sort of like a movie to movie
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: in terms of cont the subcontext being about a man,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: because a lot of times they're talking about how to
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: cover up a murder, but of a man. But I
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: found like the murder of a man who passes right
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: inherently yes, yes, but even so there I mean before
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: the man enters the picture. But also like it's like, yeah,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: we did cast that spell on you so that you'd
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: fall in love with the fruit vendor. I just don't. Yeah,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: but there's still there are there are lots of conversations
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: that pass. In fact, um, I don't know if two
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: men talk to each other in this entire movie. Oh
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: that's a good question. I don't. I don't. I can't
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: think of an example of it happening. And if so,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: it's how we normally see the movie pass the backtel test,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: where it's very kind of inconsequential and in passing for sure.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: So there you goddamn go. So we've got our nipple
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: scale of course, zero to five nipples. Based on its
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: representation of women. I feel like this one probably gets
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: I'm tempted to give it a three, maybe even a
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: three and a half. Obviously it gets some nipples docked
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: for it being guilty of only featuring cis hit white women. Yes, yes,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: so there's that issue that it's which is the issue
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: of this era into today. But this movie is like,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: especially given the subject matter, um, and the tendency of
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: this genre to completely exclude anyone that isn't a straight
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: hot white lady. Right. Um. I do enjoy a lot
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: of things about the movie though, again that it is
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: largely about women supporting women. Um. They they do have
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: to support each other about things relating to men. But
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: that I mean that the scene at the end with
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: the coven coming together all the women who had preview
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: to sleep in like, which, which, you're a bitch, and
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: they're like, actually, I wanted to see the inside of
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: your really cool house, so I'll come over and help
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: help you sweep out the dust of this shitty man. Um.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe I'll give it. I'll split the diff
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: I'll give it a three point to five that thank you,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: and I'll give one nip to Sandy Bee, I'll give
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: one nip to Nikki Kay and my other one point
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: to five nips I will give to the little Black
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Katy who we see first as a kitten and then
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: we see you as an adult cat. And I don't
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: know if we ever learned its name, but it's super cute.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm I'm gonna go. I think it is the
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: same thing with three feels to allow. Three by five
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: feels too high. I'm gonna follow your lead, my sister,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: which um and go three point to five. I think
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: four it's time. It gets kind of a surprising amount, right.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: I like the relationships between women in this movie. I
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: like the trust and support even when it comes to murder. Um. Yeah,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: And and that you see, even though we've discussed in
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: terms of Hollywood, we don't see a lot of different
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: types of women physically, but but personality wise, there is
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of different approaches to life, and no one
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: has really except with the kind of subtle things towards
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman's character. Um, they're generally treated with respect even
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: though they're making very different life and lifestyle choices, which
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: is really fun. I again think that the stuff with
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: the abusive relationship was done more right than you would
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: expect kind of campy movie to do, and it's a
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: fun watch. The line in the coconut scene. I say,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: cut Aidan Quinn and put the line in the coconut
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: scene in it twice. Um. Yeah, it's a fun movie
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: and I you know, everyone should watch it if they
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: haven't seen it. I'll do three point to five and
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: I'll give one to Sandy, one to Nikki, one to
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Evan rachel Wood, and uh point to five to the
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Froggy who should have been all for Millina, who should
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: have been out for Billina. But Alfred was called and
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: he was like, I don't want to take apart from
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: a frog. And we're like, he's a here, what was
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: he doing? I thank you for I was like it
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: would be too much, thank you for carrying up. I
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: don't know, let's see, let's say it alf b. He's
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: right now. He's probably like, how am I going to
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: promote Frozen two? He's coming off of that boogie Night's heat.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: He could have been filming for either Agnolia or Deadly
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: Do right to totally identical movies. Anyways. Yeah, that's the
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: episode on Practical Magic. Everyone, damn right it is. Thanks
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: for listening. We'll just go straight to our plugs, which
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: are again, Uh you liked the the loose, silly style
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: of this episode, then you'll love our Matreon, so subscribe.
• 1:08:23
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• 1:08:26
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• 1:08:29
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• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: just the two of us episodes seemed to celebrate our
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: three year anniversary as a goddamn show. It's coming on up,
• 1:08:41
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• 1:08:44
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• 1:08:47
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• 1:08:50
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• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: us out on all the social media's. We love you,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: and we're gonna be in Denver. Oh yes, we're gonna
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: be done. So if you live in Denver, come to
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: our co headlining stand up shows that Jamie and I
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: are doing on November six at Bar Max. We also
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: have a live Becktel Cash show on the seventeen, covering
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: the Santa Claus which is Brave of Us, extremely brave,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: and our special guest for that is Grace Thomas um So.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: All the tickets for all of those shows are on
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: our website becktel cast dot com. Click on the live
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: tab and all the links will be there. So if
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: you live in Denver or you live close by, come
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: see us. So we'll see you soon and we'll talk
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: to you soon. Happy Halloween, which you bit by