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Issue 318: Inheritance of The Clone Wars · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

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  Hello, then welcome to the ned Polity. Hi. This is Nick Nastasu,
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  story editor on Star Wars, The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch,
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  and you are listening to Aggressive Negotiations. Hello, and welcome to Aggressive
• 0:27
  Negotiation Star Wars podcast. Here that does things a little bit differently. And
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  I love coming at you from the Jungle Temple Moon of Yavin, for I
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  just like hanging out here. It feels peaceful, you know, the mists
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  coming over the mountains and the trees and the Death Star wreckage, it's just
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  wonderful. And with me as he is every single week, the one and
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  only Jedi Master John Mills, it would have made more sense to have Rise
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  of Skywalker go back to the original Death Star wreckage. Doesn't that feel like
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  it should have happened, like go back to Yavin? Yeah? Uh,
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  I mean if you're just gonna reboot everything and just read tread right like it?
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  Yeah? That feels that feels right somehow? Does it? Does?
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  It does? Yeah? I don't know why, but it does. Yeah.
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  Well, I mean that'll ask us to write things which I don't know
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  why. But if you would like to catch up with us, we'd love
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  it if you would go over to at the Jedi Masters on Twitter, and
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  the Nerdparty dot com, which we love to catch up with you. And
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  just subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you make sure you get our show.
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  We would also really appreciate if you you know, there's so many Star
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  Wars podcasts out there, and if Aggressive Negotiations is your cup of Jawa juice,
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  then please go over to Apple Podcasts and give us a star rating review
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  and help other people find our show. So, John, we have finished
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  the second season now of The Bad Batch, and you know, something that
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  had been kind of percolating in our minds as we were thinking of this season
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  is the way that this show is clearly the inheritance of the Clone Wars.
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  It is, it is, it's um. I think even more than the
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  first season, the second season pulls on a lot of threads that I didn't
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  fully expect. From the very beginning. We jump in and we're we're planning
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  a heist on Dooku's homeworld, and it's like we go right into it,
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  and we have clones battling against a separatist holdout. We have all of these
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  different things going on, and you know, we meet Gungji. We have
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  all of these after effects showing that there's a like basically that the galaxy itself
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  is working out its feelings about the Clone Wars. And I think it's very
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  interesting because the after effects are working themselves out in relation to everything in such
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  a way. We just talked about Hawkeye over an assembling Avengers for six or
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  two club and it's really one of those things where this is the type of
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  post like the entire Galaxy is undergoing post traumatic stress and that's why the Empire
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  is able to make the moves that it does. And in terms of the
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  inheritance of the Clone Wars, I think when you come directly to the fact
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  that the Batch starts things out this season trying to get the riches that had
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  been squirreled away by Dooku that the Empire is now repossessing, you know,
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  like it's the ultimate gambit by Palpatine, Like this proves more than anything that
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  no matter what Dooku did, he was going to lose, even if the
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  Separatists somehow pulled out a miracle victory Duke who still lost. There was no
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  way he was walking away the victor. And this is that clear thing that
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  every last bit of Duku's legacy is being taken away and he's being a race
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  from history and this so that's the inheritance of the Clone Wars as it were.
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  Is that everything that you that people used to know and identify themselves by
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  is gone or going away, and that is you know, it's it's a
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  legacy of ashes. I think that's that's really well said, because I think
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  one of the things is that really stuck out to me throughout the season and
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  with the inheritance of the Clone Wars, the inheritance is the Clones and what's
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  happening to them. That's the thing that really stuck out to me as what
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  we're inheriting and the way in which the Clones are so used and abused by
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  the Empire and they you know, and and the sad part is many people
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  in the Republic did not see the Clones as anything other than these tools to
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  be utilized. And yet when the Jedi are around, you know, the
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  majority of the Jedi saw them as beings that should be looked to as beings
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  with rights because they were full fully fledged people in their own right, each
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  one differentiated from the other, which is exactly, of course, what we
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  got in the very first episode of the Clone Wars, where Yodah talks about
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  this idea of that every single one of them is different and unique, even
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  though they're clones. And so this season then to see the inheritance of that
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  be completely squirreled away by the Empire, who as the Loans begin to show
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  themselves untrustworthy to their programming because they do the very thing they were meant to
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  do, which is to be independently, thinking that that is now a detriment,
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  and because the last thing that the Empire wants, the last thing the
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  Emperor wants is people to be independently thinking, yeah, they want people who
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  are less human exactly, but they also want people who are basically just sheep.
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  They just follow, they just do what they're told, they don't ask
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  questions, and you know, I think it's one of the most terrifying things
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  about watching this second season is to see the Republic go from a republic to
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  a dictatorship where too much of what we're seeing is too much of what we're
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  seeing in the real world, right, And that's kind of I think of
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  the terrifying thing about this. But even going off of that, because we
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  love to analyze stuff, the larger arc of the Batch as a whole through
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  this season is learning to let go of that legacy, that inheritance. I
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  don't want that life anymore. I don't want to be that way anymore.
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  We even have the moment where Hunter says, hey, because they say,
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  you know, we're soldiers. There were soldiers, were soldiers, And then
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  there comes a point where Hunter sort of acknowledges, do you want us go
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  back to Pabou and just try a different type of living? Maybe we're not
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  soldiers after all, not anymore because that world, you know, that legacy,
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  that inheritance, that's not what we want. And I know this might
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  be a stretch, but maybe if we even look at the arc here where
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  we have this first duology of the literal inheritance, that Dooku is left behind
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  on Sorrento, all of this money and these goods and everything that the empires
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  are repossessing, and the Batch is trying to hold on, to reclaim,
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  to take them, to hold onto them, to keep them. And then
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  as we progress through we even have when we meet Gungji, the Jedi who
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  live have to learn to let go of that way of life. They have
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  to learn to let go of their inheritance. Like Gungi, he is an
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  inheritor of the Jedi legacy, but there's no place for that anymore. And
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  so there's a sense of as we go through, it's about people letting go
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  and learning that you can't hold onto it. And I would say that especially
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  comes up for in the episode The Outpost, which is I think just an
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  amazing, amazing episode because we really examine what is Crosshair holding onto and what
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  are these clones who are in the middle of Nowhere station and what are they
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  holding onto anymore? And so it's that that idea that you don't have to
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  accept your inheritance. Somebody can try to give you something, you can say
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  that's not what I want. So maybe that's more about the inheritance of the
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  Clone Wars is let them have what they reclaim. It's all death and betrayal.
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  I don't want it, and you know, and then even you get
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  there and Sauguerrera can't let go of it, and so you know, when
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  you get to the end. He wants the inheritance of the Clone Wars,
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  but he wants it to mean that the fight is still going on and he
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  can still get in there and win. And it's the true wisdom is saying,
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  I don't want this anymore. I don't want to try to hold onto
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  things. I don't want to try to keep the world that I knew.
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  I'm willing to accept that it's not there anymore. Yeah. I think one
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  of the beauties of this idea is that we're having to struggle with all of
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  our characters of finding out what their purpose is now light of the new reality
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  of the Empire, and what should it be in that light. And that's
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  a hard question to answer when everything that you've had has been stripped away from
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  you and you are purposeless, And so do you, like you're saying,
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  do you just kind of try to do the same thing or is there a
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  way that that has to evolve and adapt then to the situation. And I
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  think that's what all of these characters are finding is that it either has to
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  change completely or what it was that you were doing does have to find some
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  adaptation. And you know, I think you calling out Saguerero is another great
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  way of, you know, showing how somebody can react in a way,
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  which is they become so angry and so pained that their only way to deal
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  with it is to just lash out and they don't care if it makes a
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  difference at all. Really, it just feels good to lash out and and
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  and so I think that's a thing too that you know, because when you
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  see characters like Rex and Echo take on this mission of trying to really work
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  with the Clones and they are working with Senator Chucci and all of that,
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  you know, all of that has a purpose, right, They're finding new
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  purpose. It's similar to their old purpose, but it definitely has a whole
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  new sense of being in light of the reality of the situation that they're actually
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  in. And so I think, you know, it's those characters to which
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  can't do that, find themselves just kind of lost. And I think what's
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  interesting is that the Batch themselves, other than Echo, kind of find themselves
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  in that position because they're not really sure what to do in light of this
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  yet. And that's what this whole season is kind of about, is them
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  trying to figure out and they are figuring out, Okay, what we're doing
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  isn't quite working, and we're not you know, we're not really getting anywhere,
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  and they fill this pool. Should we be in more of the action?
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  Should we just you know, hide away? And I love that,
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  I think, you know that, because that's kind of the question that the
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  entire galaxy now is now trying to ask themselves. What do we do?
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  You know, do we just accept the empire? Do we fight it?
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  Do we just lay down and die? Well? I mean, what do
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  we do here? Yeah? And I think that it's really setting up the
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  why the the Mantle sits there. I think we're progressing to the point where
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  you know, they'll see more of a not a pointlessness, but more of
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  a futility to fighting at all. And in a sense, what's what's interesting
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  about that is that, truly is what the the Jedi way is is like
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  recognizing, you know what Obi Wan says, you can't win, but there
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  are alternatives to fighting. And maybe that's the point is is finding those alternatives.
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  That's what Saw can't find, and that's what the batches on the verge
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  of finding until they get you know, pulled back into everything. But you
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  know, I think the legacy of the Clone Wars is definitely at play.
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  I think that there there's there's that whole thing going But I want to ask.
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  I want to ask you because you know this isn't going to be like
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  the This is one of those things where we're still processing you know, season
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  two, right, it's still there and so like so like a final cap
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  off question about this whole idea of the legacy of the Clone Wars and everything
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  is given that we're dealing with that. Do you view Bad Batch as Clone
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  Wars Part two? Or do you view Bad Batch more as a show of
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  its own. Like I'm trying to avoid asking in an a caustic way,
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  and anybody out there, please forgive everybody knows I love to make jokes at
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  the expense of the sequel trilogy and stuff like that. But the vibe I
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  would argue that we get with the Bad Batch and its relation to the Clone
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  Wars is what they maybe we're trying to go for with the sequel trilogy,
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  And I just I just want to ask, do you see that the same
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  way that this is sort of the vibe that the sequel trilogy should have been
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  going through. If you're going to deal with the repercussion and how you move
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  forward and what the galaxy is like. I see this as a more organic
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  sense. Now, I'm not saying it needs to be a one to one
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  or follow the same mark necessarily. I'm just saying like, this feels more
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  like I could see a galaxy in turmoil like this and the Luke Skywalkers sitting
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  there and having to go on that journey. If I gotta let go of
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  this because this is going to have to develop on its own, and that
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  seems to be where we want our characters to go in the batch, Yeah,
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  I definitely see what you're asking. And I think that one of the
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  things that is so well done with the Bad Batch is the way in which
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  you know, it has the ability to just kind of pick up where the
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  Clone Wars left off, but the focus has been through the eyes of these
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  Clones and Omega, and in many ways, I think that the whole series
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  is through the eyes of Omega, so that the transition of what the galaxy
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  was to what it is now and becoming is through her eyes. And the
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  fascinating thing about that is that she only got to see what the rest of
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  the galaxy was like as it's beginning to change. But it's very clear that
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  in the last year or so that she's been away from Camino and with the
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  Batch, the galaxy has changed dramatically and it's getting progressively worse, it seems
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  like daily, and so I think that's something that really helps the series is
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  that it has a clear focus, which is through the eyes of the characters,
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  and the story of the Bad Batch is not as much about what's happening
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  in the larger hole of the galaxy. It's focus on telling that story again
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  through the experience of these characters, which is one of the reasons that I
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  think sometimes that people get frustrated with the show is that every episode of this
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  show is not going to be a mythology changing episode. And the reason that
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  is is because these characters aren't involved in mythology changing situations every single moment of
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  every single day. And as we get further into the series, I think
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  that that is becoming more and more the case because it's becoming unavoidable for them.
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  But where we've been with these characters where they've actually been trying to stay
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  away from that, and it's been on purpose, and so, you know,
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  I think that the reason that this works is that it is very clear
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  to me that the creators of this show have an endpoint in mind of where
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  these characters are going. And part of that is because they also know where
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  the story is going to go and how these characters fit into that. And
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  in the end, that's what makes for good storytelling, is that you know
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  what you're working towards. So therefore all the other pieces as you're telling the
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  story line up with that. And I think that's just the biggest difference,
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  you know, between between the two. And I don't think anybody would argue
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  with me that, you know, the sequel trilogy didn't have that, and
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  you know, I think The Bad Badge does. And so and I think
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  to one of the things that we can clearly see is that the people working
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  behind the scenes, and we know this so many of them were actually people
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  who had worked on the Clone Wars, right, So it's a continuation of
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  that series even behind the scenes. And I think that that shows then in
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  what we're getting here. And so all of those things are the things to
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  which I think, you know, make this a true and a true inheritance
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  of the Clone Wars. And I think it's also what helps make this just
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  a good show. In and of itself. Now, one of the questions
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  I did want to ask you, John before we got out of here,
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  because it's something that just came to mind, is do you think that the
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  Bad Batch is a show that works as well without having seen the Clone Wars
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  because there's so much of the show that relies on knowledge of what happened there.
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  Yes, I do. I do not have the encyclopedic recall of the
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  of every Clone Wars arc that others seem to. So I think that one
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  of the greatest things about Bad Batch dealing with, you know, the after
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  effects, is that they take the time to explain in universe what's going on.
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  And so yeah, I think that it completely works. It works the
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  way that I would want any sequel to work, and I tout this all
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  the time. I should be able to sit somebody down has never seen anything
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  else and where they get what's going on. And I would argue that,
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  yes, you can do that with Bad Batch. So that is definitely.
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  But the most important question I have, Matt is when it comes to talking
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  all things Bad Batch, where can people find you online? Well, of
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  course you can find me all over the place on social media. Other than
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  Matt Rushing Star two. Of course, I'm here on the network doing I'll
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  Post with Dre Kaufman and we talked about every single chapter of the Harry Potter
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  series, one chapter at a time. Over on the TFM network, you
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  can find me doing a bunch of shows. One is called the six or
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  two Club, where we talk about all of the fantoms we love, not
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  just Star Trek or Star I means everything. And you also find John over
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  there soon talking about the entire season of The Bad Batch. Check that out,
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  so be on the lookout for that. You can find me doing Warp
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  five literary Tracks, the orb, the Artificial Tango, and Saddle Up as
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  well. But John, maybe people want to talk some Bad Batch with you.
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  Where would they find you, Well, you can find me online.
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  It's Kessel Junkie k s s L Junkie. Look for me on your social
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  network of choice. Letterbox is probably the safest and best one because all I
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  can talk about is movies over there, and you can find me right here
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  on the network, co hosting a show called house Lights where we look at
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  the work of directors and honestly, I don't know, we look for crazy
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  combinations. So you know, stay tuned for that, and you know,
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  with Kubrick to Rob Reiner too. I don't think we've done Hitchcock yet,
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  but that's inevitable at this point, isn't it. So you can find me
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  on all of those spots, just look for me there. But Matt,
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  all that said, I think it is time to close these negotiations. John,
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  negotiations are clothes. Join the revolution, Join the Nerd Party,