Latest / Skin Anarchy / Brandy Hoffman, Co-Founder of VOLITION Beauty

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Brandy Hoffman, Co-Founder of VOLITION Beauty · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Sculture Anarchy.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ekta, and I'm so excited because I have a Instagram fan favorite line today.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure all of you have heard of Volition Beauty.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they make amazing products, as everybody says on Instagram.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to introduce you guys to Brandy Hoffman.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Brandy.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited that you're here.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Super excited.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's truly an honor because I remember when I was um in my influencer, you know, like my reviewing days, I just would see your your products everywhere, and it was just nothing but great feedback.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you to tell us like everything.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did you get started with you know volition?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: How did it come about?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I will tell you, I've been in beauty for a long time, uh, almost uh almost 20 years.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I've seen everything.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've always been in beauty from the, you know, right after out of college, I I was on the operating side.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I saw a lot of different uh products, a lot of different brands.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I I I'm gonna be very candid, um, as well as my co-founder um Patricia, we can talk about her background as well.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: I will tell you I had a love-hate relationship with beauty.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um there are things I love about it, um, is you know, it makes me feel better about myself.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: I love when my skin when I'm taking care of it.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I believe in a power of a lipstick for yourself.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: I believe beauty for yourself is the number one reason to invest.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, if it's you know, what makes you feel good, you do you, you know.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think what I saw in because I was a corporate executive is is being in conference rooms and seeing um, you know, seeing a lack of representation, not just from like, you know, ethnicity and skin types, uh, you know, body types.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I I I remember being in so many meetings where we'd be in creative meetings, and I, you know, I think the industry has been so slow in the change.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there's so momentum finally.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's a long time coming, and we should all be ashamed that we haven't moved the industry forward uh as fast as we should have.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and everyone's responsible for that.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I do think that it was, you know, I I saw there was, I wanted a brand where anybody could come and see themselves in the brand.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I remember being in meetings, creative meetings where they're, you know, kind of be kind of shy away from, you know, I would present different types of models, different types of consumers, and I just remember being shot down.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And and they would just keep gravitoy, gravitating towards those models.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I just remember it stuck with me from very early days.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so I happened to uh work at a brand um where I met my co-founder, Patricia Santos, and I'll give you a little bit of background because I think it's important.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: She was she's a she's a rock star, she's a female B, she was a female VC, and she saw a lot of female entrepreneurs not getting funded for a lot of reasons.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so when our paths crossed, there was just so many things that we agreed on that we wanted to change.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think when we boiled it down and kind of tore down the what a traditional brand is, how it's created, how it's funded, funded, and how it what kind of products it sells, we we kind of just created a brand.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: We believe that the consumer was brought into the process so late.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you start with the consumer, I think really magical things happen.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a lot of you know, community speak out there, and I think everybody incorporates their community feedback in different ways.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: We are the only brand that every single product comes from our community.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: They might not know how to create the they're not chemists, they're not all chemists.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: We do have some, they're not all chemists, um, but they do know what problem they want to solve, and that's where they can, that's where it kind of started.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: We believe that you know there should be differentiated products out there.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Not everybody can launch the exact same product.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's business reasons for it, not just you know, consumer reasons.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: There should be innovation in the brand.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: And when we started uh volition and started taking these submissions for ideas, we found that not only was there white space in such a crowded, crowded industry, there was really amazing ideas, really game-changing ideas and ingredients that were surfacing.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, our consumer consumers are intelligent and we should treat them as such.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: They should have a say in a brand.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and more than just polling and you know, giving some feedback.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now, of course, you know, if that's what the consumer wants to do is they just want to, you know, do a poll on lipstick, great.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have to take what they're willing to give you.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: But if you actually open up the brand um to different ways of interacting with your community, I guarantee that they're gonna make a better product.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what yeah, so so every single we're um so every single product that we launch comes from our community.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: They submit it online and we have a proprietary platform software that will run it for three things feasibility, safety, and really point of difference.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Is the product already out there?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: If the product's already out there, we we understand you probably haven't seen it because it's such a crowded space.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: We'll give you those brands and those products and tell you to try those.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but if there's something that's not out there, that's where the magic happens.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: We set it up for a for a campaign where our community interacts with the idea.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: They they they decide if they want the product made, they put their names on a wait list, they they ask questions, they then ultimately, you know, uh pre-order the product, and then we create the product and it's carried in our line.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, this is very, very, very unique.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I love how involved um this is for the consumer.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is I I you know, I was looking at it on your on your website, and then exactly what you just described, and I was um, I'm glad that you explained it because I was a little confused.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my gosh, do they actually do this?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's this is very I've never seen this before.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Never seen this before.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: I uh that's the reaction we want.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a consumer can our our our our clients and our customers can interact in any way they want, they can buy the best, the best products that have come out of this amazing funnel and this amazing process, or if they have an idea, they can become an innovator.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Anybody who submits an idea is called an innovator.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that person can we are we Patricia and I never set out to be a founder brand.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we were never going to be the face of these brands.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't want to.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Our community is the stars, and so our innovators, we like to say that we're a multi-founder platform because every single person shares in that shares in revenue when their product is voted in and and succeed, you know, has a successful, successful campaign.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um that is amazing, and I think that you know what this reminds me of, uh Brandy, is uh those those incubators that people have now for skincare brands.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Except this is way better because you're you know, you're giving people just the creative freedom and the resources they need to like really see what they want to see.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we have an amazing network of chemists.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we, you know, we don't we don't sole source our product development.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: So what we do is because that my background is operations and product development, I I built a long, uh pretty expansive network, and eat you know, everybody can do everything when it comes to PD, but can they do it really, really well?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that each is a lot of chemists have specific expertise, and so we route those ideas to the right people to bring them to life.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have a question with that because now, you know, somebody like me, I love clinical grade skincare, right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So like I love um, you know, I I appreciate all products because I I know how much hard work and and dedication goes behind creating a line, but if when it comes to what you're explaining, is there a limitation in terms of the incorporation of you know scientific um concepts, uh new, you know, new things that are coming out in their research?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Can someone, if they were to submit an idea, um I mean I mean, what do you look for?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you look for some sort of like yeah?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Really good question.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so first of all, let me address your your clinical expectations.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um yes, that we are an efficacious brand.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: We uh we believe in in science, we believe in testing, and so every product, whether whether it's a face miss to an SPF, you know, we're we're using innovative and efficacious ingredients.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is key from my background.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was at a very at a very I've been in very clinical brands, and I love I love an off authentic ingredients and ingredients that actually work.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I would say is if you have an idea, what usually happens is um, well, let's just let's just take an example.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um the celery green cream that we have.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: The innovator is Nastia Lucan, and she's a really great example because she was she was a fan of the brand.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: She had tried our SPF, our prismatic SPF, and absolutely loved what it did, what it did for her face.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's the sunscreen for sunscreen haters because it addressed all the things that you hate about sunscreen.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: And she loved them, it's true, she loved the brand.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: And one day, um, and she and I love this story.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: She one day she was traveling with her manager slash best friend, and they were coming back from Tokyo, and she was exhausted, and they were in LA, and she always goes to a local grocer and gets her celery, her celery juice.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And her it reminds she's been drinking it since she was nine.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: So she was before any uh celery fat or anything like that.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh her mom was her trainer and made her drink it, and she knew what it did for her body.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: She did she she really believes that it's it makes her feel better.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so they were joking because she caught herself in a mirror and was like, Oh man, I I look really tired.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they were kind of jet-lagged and they were delirious.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, I wonder if we slathered this uh celery juice on my face, what would happen?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And she and she was half joking, and then she's like, No, maybe there's something there.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: She didn't know, she just knew what it did for, you know, what it what it did when she drank it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so she's like, you know what?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Volition will take this idea.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see if it works.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: So she submitted a celery as the key ingredient for her for a face cream.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so, of course, when when we got the idea, it has to be vetted, right?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: So celery wasn't out there in beauty in a meaningful way at all.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was we could make it and it was safe.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so what we did was we we worked with a we worked with a lab that specialized in ingredient processing, and they came back because they had we have to vet that it actually does something for your face, right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: We're not going to make a product just because it's it's trendy or somebody else says it works.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um so we had very expert chemists look and and test and research celery as a face as a uh a beauty ingredient, um, and come to find out not only is it it is the is the vegetable actually translate with moisture, you know, you think of celery and it's like it's high, high water content.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Funny enough, the celery seed and celery extracts are really great for uh maintaining moisture um as well as minimizing pores.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's a great example of somebody who just had an idea.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: And don't get me wrong, there's a lot of ideas that don't pan out that you know, they don't, there's no nothing scientifically holding it up for that it really has benefits.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I think celery green cream is a great, I a great example.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we have a lot of case studies like that that allows us um, you know, this innovation pipeline with the with the science and the chemist evalidation is like what we what you know how we view it.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um every single product is paired up with a chemist to evaluate.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what about the medical side of it too, Brandy?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know that chemistry is definitely a huge, obviously, you know, a huge component in formulation and you know, obviously, but as far as dermatology, making sure that it's dermatologists tested, or you know, whatever parameters that you think are suitable, um, how do you work with that um aspect if someone does create something that you guys uh want to back?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if it's so funny enough, we've had we've had amazing dermatologists um submit ideas that they've evaluated and they have they have created for themselves and they want to they want to put it out to our community to vote.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um now all our all of our products are reviewed, uh so dermatologists reviewed, as well as you know, safety testings.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Safety testing is done on all of our products, as well as depending on what the product is claiming, there's clinicals and consumer studies as well.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we take it very seriously, but I think there's a real I think there's a it's a testament when when we have these dermatologists that are looking at our other products and and thinking that their products could actually align with us.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's a compliment to us for sure.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: They're willing to submit ideas within our platform to be part of our our community.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's something.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing I will say is we are a clean brand, and uh but I will be very clear, you know, I think people throw around clean and it's very confusing for the consumer.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same thing with the natural, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so we are very transparent and I'll be very clear.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Toxicity is our North Star.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're we're not 100% organic, and I don't think we will just because of the innovation that's coming through.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: We do not want to hinder the innovation, but what we care about and what our North Star is that toxicity um uh flag.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And what we do is we formulate to EWG standards, we're EU compliant and we're clean at Sephora.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I understand what you mean about the word clean, and you know, it's it's a very, I think, you know, you brought up a great point.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's time to redefine that word, you know, and and and really I think toxicity is the best replacement for it because that's how we evaluate any kind of um drug or pharmaceutical intervention in medicine.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: We don't, you know, we don't talk about things like, well, this is clean insulin.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like what does that mean?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So true.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: We never thought about it like that.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, totally.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is um, you know, this is clean, you know, painkillers, clean opiates.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's nonsense.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, I I think it's definitely time to, you know, that you know, founders such as yourself are stepping up and saying, Listen, we're gonna say toxicity.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: We don't like the word clean as much as we like, you know, we like bit we like transparency.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody, every brand, and as a consumer, to your point, should should put what they stand for.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and brand, you know, some brands do.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's really important that we take responsibility to be very clear to the consumer because there are other industries that I think is that I'm confused, uh, not in beauty, of course, but there's other other, you know, other industries that I wish they would be, you know, a little bit more direct in their communication because I'm not I have to do a ton of research to figure out where they stand on certain things.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I think it is, I think it is our responsibility.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: I love the word clean.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: I just wish, you know, I think everybody should just define it for themselves from their brand standards and their brand positioning so that the consumer can easily understand.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was talking to Dr.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Corey Hartman about this topic like a couple days ago, and we were literally talking about like just clean, like it's just marketing words, you know what I mean?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, um, at some point we have to, I think, um this is my opinion, is that I think at some point we have to realize as an industry that the consumer is a lot more intelligent now.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're a lot more, you know, engaged and they're more, you know, um informed about the research and the science.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, skincare is not like makeup where it's not backed by actual, like a like a germ, like a medical field, you know what I mean?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's there and there's a reason for it.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that people are finally getting on the board of, you know, hey, let's figure out like what this does for my my skin, you know, and all this stuff.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important to cater to that.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's important to not dumb things down at this point, you know what I mean?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like so true.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I like we don't need everybody to understand the word we're using.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, we need to use the word and then expect everybody to figure out what that means because that's how you know, you know what I mean?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like that that's that's the problem.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think marketing, this is just my opinion again.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think if marketing went in that direction with skincare, it would not only be better, but like, you know, I think it would be helpful for like coming up with better ideas.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I, for example, let me tell you this, and I and I think this will really explain what I mean.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the there's a brand uh Biodesium that I really, you know, I I like the way they name their things, and one of the products is superoxide dismutase mist.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now, superoxide dismutase is the uh actual enzyme that breaks down our free radicals in our body.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that they're actually putting the enzyme name, you know what I mean?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like something like that.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I really I enjoy seeing that, you know.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, long story short, I I love it.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, you know, you touched on something about the consumer being smart, being intelligent, and I have to just tell this this this story from my past.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I I've had so many, you know, we do we we Patricia and I've sat in boardrooms where a collection of people have made decisions uh for their brand without any type, you know, maybe trend reports, maybe, you know, some some you know expensive research reports, but it really is just a very small subset.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: And what I thought what I always found um difficult to handle is a lot of my bosses um, you know, believe that beauty, they would always say, if you look at a company's PL and where they're where they're where they're concentrating most of their their their money and their capital, it's always tells you, you know, a lot about that company.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I had tons of bosses be like, you know, they would spend hundred, you know, millions and millions of dollars in in marketing.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a boss who believed that beauty was a marketing field.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I would argue with them and be like, we are consumer goods personal care, we make products, and and I think you know, Patricia, in the early days of fine founding volition, one of the things that we kept talked about was why do company, why do beauty brands have so much money in marketing?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Besides the obvious getting people's they, you know, they believe that it's brand awareness and things like that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you took if you if you had to spend all this money to market a product to buy it, what would happen if you actually started with things that people wanted to buy naturally or organically?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that I think what what you to you know just to bring it back to your to your point about consumers are intelligent.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: Let's start treating them as such, right?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: And everything that you do.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: And we believe that they are smart enough to drive RPB.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Don't get me wrong, it was very scary in the beginning.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I, you know, I had a boss pretty much tell you know, ex-coworkers that I was insane.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which which but it's scary, right?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: It really is.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's your entire product development process uh and your launch products to the community.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it is it is it could be scary for a lot of people, but we just we truly believe that they were that they are the ones that should be driving what we make.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: And we just had to figure out what was the vehicle to get that information and get those ideas.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I value our customers.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're smarter than me for sure.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they should be treated as such.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so this just goes back to you about, you know, they are smart.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: So let's start, let's start treating them as they should be.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, and I also want to say that um that what you're doing, um, you know, what you're doing with this this whole um initiative is so remarkable because I think it's the first step towards what I thought, you know, I I've always felt this way that we need more collaboration in the skincare industry um between brands.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um if we were to, you know, introduce this idea that, you know, for example, let me you know, let me say this like so when you go onto a website for some random brand, they'll suggest other products you buy with from their brand, right?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: But what if you paired, like, because you know, everything is being more you guys are basically customizing, like based on consumer feedback, you know what I mean?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you were to pair like that, like what they're choosing with another brand that works really well with, for example, like celery extract, you know, there's a bomb or something that with turmeric in it that works really well that maybe your brand doesn't have yet, but the other you know what I mean, the other brand has it.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's this more collaborative environment could I think really benefit everybody, you know?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think, yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was disagreeing, yeah.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean I I think it could because it it's like you know, we have to support each other, and especially uh, you know, the more and more I interview um, you know, companies, I realize a lot of them are female founded, and you know, and I think like a women's a strong female network, I don't think there's anything more powerful than that.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like I like I feel like skincare is like it's like we can do this if we become more collaborative and we become more like you know, research driven and you know, just science driven collectively, not just like, for example, your brand is doing it and then 20 others aren't doing it, you know, like like we can't do that.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I think you talked about like you know, uh a strong female network.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think that you know, I will speak for uh Patricia a little bit just because I know where she stands.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it was pure, it was truly the reason why she wanted to start volition.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, seeing these seeing these women with great ideas and products.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe it wasn't a full line to be fair.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was just one really amazing product, um, and maybe they didn't get funded for whatever reason.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, there were there were several different contributing factors to us creating volition.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: And what we wanted to do was uh besides you know getting the consumers start in the process earlier, it also allowed us to have these microentrepreneurs, these uh a place for those women to go and to bring their ideas and create their own product.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that you know, it it's you know, people say it's it's you know, people think it's a cliche about like strong women networks, but it really is the backbone of of the beauty industry.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it of the foundation.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to respect that.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we have to respect that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's amazing founders out there, there's amazing women that have started prop brands and products.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of my thing, it's one of my pet peeves, you know, about I think a large companies, large beauty companies should, you know, there's so many amazing women.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's they should be CEO.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's they should be COO.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: They should be in the C-suite.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I live in I live in San Francisco, and you know, there's always the debate about um diversity and women in tech.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, they're they're they're ill, you know, they're weak, they're weak, you know, their weak response always is, you know, well, you know, we if the pool is small.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's what Silicon Valley always says.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's wrong, of course, but that's what they say.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: I always say beauty is worse because we have the pool.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's no argument, you cannot say that you don't have the pool of pool.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a weak argument for tech, don't get me wrong, but you know, there is no way you can look at the industry and be like, there's not enough, there's not enough diversity in in beauty for us to have more female CEOs.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would I really hope that you know, in the next five years, the large beauty companies, the large retailers, you know, we start seeing those female CEOs uh represented because there's amazing talent.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I wouldn't be here and volition wouldn't be here without without our innovators, but also our mentors, you know, my fellow colleagues I've worked with at other brands, um, I wouldn't be here.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think that that is that's gotta, you know, we have to hold our industry accountable.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I would really see that reckoning happen.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love I love everything you just said, Brandy.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously, I really do because you know, I mean it because you know what?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's one thing to like we cannot keep saying things have to change, women have to like band together and do you know, we have to do it, and like this is how you do it.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And these are you know, actions speak so much louder than words.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, when you were talking, all I was thinking about was like, for example, you know, um, I grew up in, you know, I grew up in the suburbs of Ohio, and I met a lot of girls in high school that you know, they all they ended up doing was um, you know, they they were small town girls and they they stayed in the town they were in.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but the thing is they didn't get an opportunity to maybe pursue this this thing they really wanted, or they have this great idea, and it was it's always hard to find a means, right?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: To like to create what you know you can create.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times our society, especially for women, you know, we we don't like to acknowledge this as enough.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Women are a suppressed population of people.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: We've been oppressed for many, many centuries since the beginning of time, and you can't wash that out in a day.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: You have to take a chance on us, you know what I mean?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Give us a chance, like you can't women need that.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I feel like when you're when you're in a state of mind where you keep hearing no, no, no, no for generations, and then all of a sudden people say, Well, now it's time for women to rise and do great things and be entrepreneurs, and it's like really we've been doing it, and also there we've been doing it just hasn't been recognized, right?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: It hasn't been recognized, exactly.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it and also it's like, you know what, at the end of the day, it should be let's let's have it easy for a while for women, please.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we can walk into a bank and get our funding or whatever.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, get a yes, like men have that for centuries, and now you're like, we have to go above and beyond and create women's movements and feminist movements to get basic.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's ridiculous at this point.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I completely applaud you for your efforts because honestly, this is you're right, you're right there in the consumers' hands, and you're giving so much power to people who you you know who knows who's the next genius.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: One last thing about you, what you're saying, because I I I think that it's really important for um for all brands also to support Black owned businesses at this point.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that we has you you talk about action speak louder than words.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think every single um every single uh company has a responsibility to shed shed light on, you know, whether it's other entrepreneurs.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you, you know, you might have, you know, it doesn't matter if you have, you know, 50,000 followers or a million followers.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think brands have to be responsible for shedding the light on on amazing, undiscovered Black owned businesses.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that that is something that, you know, to your point about, you know, don't get me wrong, you know, we're talking about things we want to change.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's amazing things about about our industry as well.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: But to your point about actions speak louder than words, let's let's use it as a as a as an industry, we could do so much better.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so let's start now instead of talking about it for another five years.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: It is a shame.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a shame, you know, that Fenty was the first brand that really, you know, that Fenty was the first one at least to highlight, you know, it wasn't the first brand, but I think they did they did it in a big way.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was a it was you know, the marketing, you know, the marketing around it was so widespread about it.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, I applaud any company that that builds that into their brand DNA, because that should be table stakes at this point.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it is a shame that it it it happened so late.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: So again, I I you know we have to be accountable for that and we have to hold each hold ourselves and each other, you know.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the right changes work speaks for itself.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've but you know, I was raised to believe that my parents, you know, they are they come from rural India, they had to make every tiny thing they have on their own.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And what we were taught when my brother and I was you have to take every opportunity, but it's here's the thing if we don't create opportunities, how the hell is anyone gonna take it?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can't we can't keep saying things like, well, okay, this is a great idea and we are all behind it, but then waiting around for the other guy to do it, you know, yeah, exactly.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's stupid.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, and and I don't want to be redundant, but I completely agree.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think black owned businesses, you know, honestly, Brandy, what I'm very interested in seeing, and I hope this someone out there does this, some sort of epidemiologist or some statistician does the study, because I want to see how many black-owned businesses actually um were given more opportunities, more funding, more, you know what I mean, like what they needed to start their business properly in the next year, and see if any of this Black Lives Movement, um, you know, the wording and the verbiage around all this, like all the social media fandom.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see if it actually did something, or if we're just being fooled again to believe that it's actually happening.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because at this point, if I don't see a black owned brand in front of me, I don't believe that it is, you know what I mean?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is like I need to see it at this point.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that's only the brands.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that I think that the the I think a perfect way to translate that is you, you know, to your point about you know, stats, where is the where are the VCs?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: Let's release what kind what is what funding is going to black entrepreneurs?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: What is, you know, same thing with banks, you know, to your point about funding, um, you know, we as an industry should hold, you know, can continue to shine light on that for sure.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and to your point, you know, there was a lot of you know, a lot of amazing momentum over the summer.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Let's keep that up with action and and and absolutely, yeah.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this was this was awesome.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: This is actually one of the best conversations I've ever had, Brendan.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're pretty honest.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty honest.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a pretty good shooter, but and everybody, you know, everybody out there, I honestly I would love to have you back and just do like a commentary series or something.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be great.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, anytime, anytime.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was a pleasure.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you everybody out there, if you have not already heard of or checked out Volition Beauty, make sure you do.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, truly, you're gonna fall in love as soon as you see it.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even your packaging is extraordinarily beautiful.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, I everything, everything is done very, very well in this brand.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I everyone check them out, leave us some comments, some feedback.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you have questions for Brandy or any of her team, let let us know and we'll pass them along.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much, and um, we'll be back next time.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 34:12
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• 34:16
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• 34:34
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• 35:05
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• 35:11
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• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.