Latest / Skin Anarchy / Heidi Brown, CEO and Editor-in-Chief at Brilliance by Brown Inc

Transcript

Heidi Brown, CEO and Editor-in-Chief at Brilliance by Brown Inc · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: This is your host, Ecta, and I'm very, very excited about our guest today because I think she has a lot of great insight.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm super excited to dive in.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: But without further ado, I want to talk, I want to introduce you guys to Heidi Brown, who is the CEO and editor in chief for Brilliance by Brown.inc.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome to the show, Heidi.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so, so happy you're here.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Ecta, thank you so much.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm so looking forward to this conversation.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I am too.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's going to be a great one.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: I I want to get started though, Heidi, because I want to know your background and um, you know, your journey in editorial and just everything that has led to this um this publication and you know all the good stuff.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: So can you get us started?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh built my career in the technology sector.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a former uh marketing executive, CMO, VP, uh, have worked in Silicon Valley, uh, started out with companies like AT ⁇ T, Zip Davis on the sales side, then moved to marketing.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And as I uh graduated through uh my years and my experience, um, that also uh provided me the opportunity to be part of some exciting startups um as well as leading uh teams with regard to delivering new technologies to the enterprise, primarily financial services sector, uh, manufacturing sectors.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh so what I've done with regard to the launch of Brilliance by Brand is to lean into my corporate executive skills to provide um, I believe, um, information uh that's useful to the demographic that we serve.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: And what is what is that demographic?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like what was your vision with that?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so a little bit about uh my personal history.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've always been a wellness enthusiast.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that spans anything from you know dance when I was younger to uh eating the right foods.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I mean what I mean by right foods are um you know your standard fruits and vegetables.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um my phone.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like a nutrient-rich diet, you know.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: My parents were um my parents belonged to a food co-op way before you know whole foods was even uh a kernel of thought.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh the notion of you know taking care of your body, wellness, mind, body, spirit has always been part of who I am and what I do.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was also influenced uh by my mother, who was uh well known in her sphere.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: She was a uh psychologist and and life coach, and the whole notion of you know how you think about yourself, how you feel about yourself.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um definitely informed me in terms of how I do my night, my life.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: That just intelligent women raise intelligent women.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I, you know, I love that.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I also have to give kudos to my dad, who was um, you know, a real um pioneer um in his field.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he was well known in the uh advertising and fashion world.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he was a fashion photographer, and yeah, they both led really big lives.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, in terms of expectations about how I turned out, um no, no.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like the bar is set very high.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: But that being said, with regard to you know, wellness um and taking care of one's body, um, you know, I lost uh my brother in 2011 um from a heart condition.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: My brother, my father passed from Parkinson's in 2015, and my mom passed in 2018 from um colon cancer.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so sorry.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's really hard.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's a lot.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was um rather challenging, um, just in terms of where I was also at in my life, ECTA.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was approaching my 50s um as my mom um was um dealing with uh the cancer that had returned.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in a place also of um wanting to get out of what I was doing to have more purpose, um and uh also to be an advocate for for wellness.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, here I had well, yeah, and also that makes you just so much more, you know.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think in a in a way when you experience that it it heightens your your desire in terms of like what you want to achieve in life, right?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean that's that's how I see it.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's like when you see life for what it is, and especially through something like you know, death of an immediate family member or something that it's so there's so much grief involved.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: It makes you realize like the level on which you want to impact humanity.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I I really love that you're you're going into this like this.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I just continue.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to add that little Yeah, no, you're you're you're absolutely right, Ecta.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I you know, I was in a place of you know, I I did not have my I did not have children.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had recently um met my now husband.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I got I got married um when I was 51.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's so cool.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um well I think it was the way of the universe saying, you know, we got your back.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we understand what you're going through, but know that you're not gonna be by yourself.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I have this wonderful new family.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I feel very blessed about that.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in terms of the career trajectory, um, I was also dealing with, you know, perimenopause and didn't really know because my mother really never talked to me about, you know, what happens with your body as you mature.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I started to have breakouts with my skin, what's going on, you know, I pride myself again on um being very healthy and fabulous and all that other wonderfulness.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: No, I mean it's confusing when you've you've lived a lifestyle that is, you know, in the direction of wellness, then yeah, something like skin health is absolutely like it it bothers you.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: And and these changes are, yeah, definitely, you know, um very confusing.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: I can I I can definitely understand where you're you know you're coming from.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you, you know, in terms of trying to understand what was going on, I've always had a dermatologist.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, because for me, uh skin health, um, well, your total health is is important.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um that wasn't based in terms of reaching out to a dermatologist, dermatologist.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think what was a little disconcerting was um looking at um the beauty sector and who it was speaking to, and it wasn't speaking to me.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, I hear you.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it definitely skews uh younger, and um I was rather disappointed with what wasn't there, and like many um founders of companies, um, you're there to fill a market need, or you understand that you must not be the only one that there must be a need or a gap to fill.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Also, you know, as a black woman, um the beauty industry has always um, I think, treated people of color um as an other.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's never spoken to people of color in any way.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that is that's one of the biggest problems, and that's why I'm I'm so excited that you know, people like you are here because let's be honest, you know, I'm I'm not I was not, you know, nearly as affected as I'm sure a lot of other women have been, because I felt very, you know, underrepresented.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't find my foundation, I couldn't find anyone I connected with.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I yeah, I'm totally behind you with that.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a problem for decades at this point, you know?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I understand why you have um legacy brands like Naomi Sims or Fashion Fair or others, which is on the makeup side, but on the skincare side, excuse me, on the skincare side, um, you really didn't have as many as you did hair care because the barrier of entry for hair care isn't as um capital uh intensive or you don't require as much capital to do that as you do to build a skincare brand.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um my discovery of you know what happened within the within this industry, within the beauty sector, with regard to um who's in charge, who's in leadership, who were on boards, who are those cosmetic chemists.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it was rather surprising, especially coming from tech where you know it's supposedly a meritocracy, it's really not.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Usually I was the only one right in leadership or in the boardroom.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I am a huge supporter of STEM.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um especially women um who are in any of the sciences, um I'm a huge supporter of.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that being said, um I again understand why uh there were um these companies that were born um that spoke to people of color because the quote unquote mainstream um really discounted or just assumed that it wasn't as important.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now that is kind of shifted, and I think that shift unfortunately is more um reactive than proactive.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you also have this cadre of incredible founders of color who are doing incredible things um with Yeah, but I mean, you know, Honey, this is my biggest question, right?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's like everything you said I I agree with, but I my biggest question is is it enough?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because to be honest, the industry that we're talking about is obviously a multi-billion dollar industry.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: It is fueled by so many factors.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, for us to try to make a change and to make um, you know, people of color in the mainstream and and something that's not like labeled as this is people of color.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I've made this point before in my previous podcast, and it really bothers me because, you know, honestly, let's be real, it makes me think of segregation.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: I hate it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I if you are make marketing a product that is like this is for people of color, don't like that is just as like, you know, disrespectful as like basically not including us.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, at the end of the day, we're just people.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone is a person.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: There should not be a skin color association with it, and we should all be represented easily.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's a giant, giant like, you know, web of information that's being just, I guess, propagated at a point.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: And there's just no, I wonder, um, going back to my point, if it's enough what the wonderful entrepreneurs are doing, and you know, uh, if that's even enough to make a debt.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's like, what are we going up against?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's the biggest, that's my biggest concern.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: Is like, you know, at one point the uphill battle has to become logical and uh people have to start backing this kind of stuff.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, to your point, you know, it's it's it's similar to, well, you know, we know we need to do better, so let's check the box, right?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: As opposed to, you know, this should be part of a corporate governance.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, chief diversity officer, does the chief diversity officer have the opportunity to become a CEO versus someone who is on a CEO track um being um in the role of, you know, a chief revenue officer or chief marketing officer becoming uh the CEO?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that um it shouldn't be about checking the box, it should be about let's understand who our uh consumer is, right?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, our consumer is vast um with respect to um the uh not only the ethnic background, but also the the skin tone, the skin type if we're talking about skin care, right?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And with regard to is it enough?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's not enough.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Clearly, it's not enough because we wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't have birthed Brilliance by Brown if it wasn't enough, you know.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, wanting to create this single source platform that promotes and envelops um uh women over 40, um, how to take care of your skin, the ingredients that are required, especially instead of those products being skewed to 35-year-olds who really don't need it, you know, the focus on anti-aging, it should be okay, what's your issue?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the ingredient that will support that issue.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: I 100% agree with you.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, to do that, you know, that this my biggest question is why is it taking so long for people to do this?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because at the end of the day, this is health, and with everything else, you know, from the pharmaceutical side, we you know, when we have a patient, we devise a plan specifically for that person.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: So to be able to transition that into the corporate sector, yeah, I don't think it should be that difficult.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like I don't, I've never understood um what the real delay here is, you know, with making things like menopause and making things like skin changes with age more mainstream and more easy to discuss.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is this is this should just be, you know, it's it should be rooted in health, is really what I'm trying to say, you know?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, Ecta.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my approach to skin care is really around wellness and skin function, and what's what are the best ingredients and and foods and um thinking that are going to support um where you are in your particular stage of life.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, there are a number of brands that I look to, and um, you know, on our company site we do list um products that we recommend.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't endorse them, I know that they work because I use them.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but with that said, um there are a host of uh brands and products.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we keep a list that's that's that is constantly updated, um, but they are both conscious about um how they run their organization.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is they're tapped into um their uh market, uh their excuse me, their demographic and the market that they serve from a holistic standpoint, means meaning that they're truly enveloping, you know.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm someone ECTA who, you know, yeah, I grew up in New York, but I also lived in Brazil, I lived in London, you know, I I live a very um uh I live through a very global mindset.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um for me, I think I have to be patient with people who come to the table or their thinking is is very myopic.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, yeah, I think so.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, also I want to say, like, you know, just going back to the site and like you know, the work you're doing, I think the relevance here is is very, very important because you know, there are a lot of apps are out right now, for example, you know, that recommend products based on just simply like an ingredient, you know, like the the word, you know what I mean?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that's just not you have to, you can't just go by that, right?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like you have to go by like this, like like you said, this global 360 approach when you're able to recommend products that will help.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that requires a personal touch, you know what I'm saying?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: So like if I if you were, if I saw something on, you know, on your publications website and I and I know you and I know like how you're approaching wellness, and I know how you're approaching um, you know, just health overall, skin health, especially, I'm gonna be more inclined to um, as a consumer, gravitate towards, you know, getting your recommendation rather than just being, you know, map massively consuming, you know, multiple products trying to just, you know, because it's the trend, or TikTok recommended it, or you know what I'm saying?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I think what you're doing is it's there's a lot of meaning behind it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I also definitely embrace science.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's why in building this company, um, and it's it's a journey because we we launched right before the pandemic, um, that uh that I had an advisory council um that is um multicultural, um, comprised of um doctors um and skin health experts and cosmetic chemists.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I have to lean into the science.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um into an understanding about um body function.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've got this largest organ and um we don't, I don't think, truly appreciate what it does for us.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um when we think about skincare, we think about the face.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: We don't think about it from a head-to-toe experience.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And when we think about skin care, it's like, oh, let me go to the spa, as opposed to let me go to a dermatologist and get a skin checkup.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um exactly.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or thinking about dermatologists as if they're beauty doctors.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's not they're they're highly trained physicians.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're extremely like the you know, cream of the crop in the medical field.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, to get into derm residency is one of the most difficult residencies to land.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, like they're not just you know, they're most of the time a dermatologist can tell you more about internal medicine than an internal medicine doctor, so like straight up because they know all of the medicine.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I agree with you.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and it's it's true.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And to that point, there's also a cultural competency gap.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the amount of black doctors in dermatology is ridiculous.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's uh it's very disconcerting.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and or dermatologists who are well versed in different types of uh skin tones.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, skin is skin.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: However, however, there are variances.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we don't know enough either.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's another thing.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah, yeah.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: Brown skin health is not a topic that has been researched in even in the slightest.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: So we can't make any claims at this point.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: There needs to be more representation.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what I've done, Ecta, is I have um put together for the company um a network of doctors that I um feature, talk about, reach out to, um, promote, um, specifically black doctors, because um they are incredible and uh they are um they should, they they deserve the shine, if you will.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's not to discount other doctors, right?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I and I also don't think that we should get into distinctions about who's a better doctor, who's not a who's not a good doctor or a bad doctor.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about let's stop having a conversation about, you know, um a black doctor versus a Caucasian doctor.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it needs to, it needs to, yeah, I hear you.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's not you can't say anyone's a bad doctor unless you're a doctor.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's just I mean you could talk you spoke you spoke about, you know, a company founded by um a person of call color, whether that person's ethnicity or background or nationality is Indian or Asian or or you know uh African American.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um that doesn't discount the fact that it the product that they produce or manufacture is for the masses.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's kind of like saying like you know, that black people can't shop Estee Lauder because you know it was valued by white people.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's exactly it's just it's like what it's like, come on, people, you know.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: I I know, and I think with you know, I I love what you said.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you said that you're you're promoting black doctors, and there is absolutely no red tape to be able to, we should not have any red tape around that statement.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and you know, I'll I'll even say it.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: I want to promote black doctors, I want to promote Indian doctors and the doctors of color because you know what?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Most of the time, the doctors I've met as a doctor, the most brilliant ones have been either from Nigeria or from India or from, you know, um somewhere in Alabama, you know, a young man who made it into the medicine and fought hard.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: Those are the best doctors I've met.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: So they deserve to be elevated and shown to the public that these are the experts.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's no that I there should be no hesitation, is what I'm trying to say in terms of promoting that, because we've been doing that with white doctors for centuries now.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I I agree with you.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I you know I I think that medicine, women's health, black women's health specifically, um has um really uh been um neglected in ways that we weren't aware of since the pandemic.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And now that we're here, it's an opportunity, right?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: I always look at um adversity um uh with a lens of where's the what is the opportunity here?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so with Brilliance by Brown, I see a huge opportunity to have these kinds of conversations, Ecta.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: To um, you know, people always talk about oh, it's hard to have these conversations.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it's not, it's not no, you and I are sitting here just fine having this, like you know, it's It's not, Heidi.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's a bala, it's bigotry, is what it is.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna be honest with you.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: I've, you know, I I am very, very similar to you in that I grew up in multiple countries.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: I've studied abroad for my graduate education.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: I was in the Caribbean for six years doing pro bono work.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've done a lot of different things, and I have can tell you that the way Americans view race, no other world, no other country in this world views it the same way.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: And it's absolutely a broken system.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: It has to be fixed and it has to come.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: These insights have to come from people like you who are globally minded and who have seen the world and how life is everywhere else, because there you cannot create change in a bubble.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I'm saying?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like you just cannot.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: And in an American society, we have this tendency of creating, you know, little bubbles of information rather than just educating masses in a in a non-discriminatory way.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's really, really leading to a downfall in a lot of ways.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I, you know, grant aside, I just want to say, like, you know, I think this is very important work, what you're doing.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think that, you know, something as simple as, for example, women of color have darker axillary um skin, you know, like armpit like discoloration, something like that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's embarrassing for a lot of girls to even bring that up because they're used to seeing their white, you know, peers who are not feel not going through this.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: So they like little things like that is what I notice.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I and that tells me that there's not enough information out there.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I I love that you are, you know, I love that you're doing it the right way.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: I love your your vision.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I'm I'm excited to see all the great uh stories that you come up with.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I tell you, Ekta, I think language matters, words matter.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the whole notion around, you know, race or racism, you know, it's a man-made construct.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's yeah, there's no such thing, right?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: We all come from different ethnicities and nationalities and backgrounds.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're all the we're all part of the human race.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you really want to get technical about it, right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um now in terms of you know, different um walks of life that we come from, we can speak to that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um but for me, it's it's more about what's the issue, how do we find the solution?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, right women over 40 um uh can tend to be rendered invisible, um, especially in the in the beauty sector.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how do we change the language?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um those yeah, like can we can we change the language of black doesn't crack?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: I hate that shit.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know where it came from.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um secondly, it's not true.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I think this is where we get to talk about what happens with different skin as it ages, right?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: My sisters, they can get they can get more crepey, right?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: As opposed to myself, you know, the the elasticity, and it doesn't discount the fact that um Caucasian skin doesn't get uh uh loot loss at loss of at loss of elasticity does not occur.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: But the uh the shifts are different, no different, you know, no different than you know, Asian women and how they age.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so if we can talk about um uh skincare um as it relates again to a specific ish issue and a specific um ethnic background, I think that that companies who are um promoting their products serve their customer base in a better way.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, definitely say, okay, you know, 25-year-old, you need to, you know, exfoliate and do AHAs and BHAs and you peptides and collagen, as opposed to understanding why the and as opposed to understanding the science behind that and knowing that peptides as an example are important for women um in my age group than they are a 25-year-old.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, knowing what peptides are to begin with, and knowing what peptides are, exactly.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I hear you.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: I hear you.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that you know, the the education aspect is something that you know we can never have enough of.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think that you know, by educating the consumer, we're not just helping the consumer, but it is helping the beauty industry because it let's be honest, you're gonna sell more products if you merge it with science.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I mean, that's just I feel like the business that's common business sense.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like you should know that as an industry and skin skincare, especially, you know, you know, if you are creating products that are geared towards some sort of, you know, there's ingredients in them, there's chemistry behind it, you cannot ignore the science.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: The consumers are eventually going to ask you questions.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: They're eventually, yeah.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, that's where I lean into my technology background, right?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, if you're building a data center, you need to understand what components, what software, the hardware, what it does in order to help that company run its business.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's no different than purchasing a skincare product to understand those ingredients and why it's formulated in the way that it is to support to better support your skin function.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, right, exactly.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I'm actually waiting for the day that labs start creating um, you know, a more public option for consumers, like just independent labs where you can take your skincare and ask them, will you test it for this, this, this, like you know what I mean?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: Just to figure out which one in your products, like what is really there.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think the more science you put into the hands of the consumer, the better this industry is gonna get.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: I really believe that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think, yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's why, you know, I um admire and love products that are um either science-tracked or science-based, um, or formulated by doctors or or aestheticians, or um, you know, those who have taken the time to provide breakthrough products.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you understand their purpose and their intention.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you know, especially within the the um whole area of um aging well skincare, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, borrowing a term from Rochelle Weitzner, who I love.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my God, Rochelle is such a rock star.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, her approach and what she's done in terms of revolutionizing um the whole notion of skincare for you know women over 45, I think is fantastic.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you have other companies out there, a lot of Me Too companies and other companies that are doing um that are part of this cadre of you know, how to take your care of your skin over 45, and I think that's great, right?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And there should be um enough for everybody to provide to the consumer.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's companies like that, as an example, Poswell Aging or Ron Robinson's company, you know, Beautystat, you know, who's a noted cosmetic chemist, right?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or Jordan Samuel, um, who um, you know, has a has is a former dancer, um, professional ballet dancer who um is now a noted esthetician and has a beautiful uh skincare line.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um you know, or Dr.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Dele Michael, who has ADM skincare.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm running these names off not to promote them, it's more about um why um I love what they're doing.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's because they're they speak to exactly what we're talking about.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it's not about there, there's no such thing as like, you know, if you okay, let me rephrase this.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: When it comes to science, you can't compete with a brand who has, for example, noble panacea, you know, I recently interviewed Selene, and you know, the the technology and these products, the the true innovation.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, again, you know, Ron, Ron has discovered a way to stabilize vitamin C.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that this is crazy good innovation.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: And you absolutely cannot compete with science when it comes to just good self-care products.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: You have to get rooted in science and you have to like, you know, promote that and push brands to be like, listen, um, this isn't enough.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: You need to tell me why the science works and why this works.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: Why should I buy your product over the next one?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I'm saying?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more, yeah, go ahead.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was gonna say, I think it's also um for the individual, for that consumer to understand um how they take care of their skin internally, right?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: So getting up in the morning and drinking a glass of water instead of reaching for that coffee first or tea, right?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um your gut health.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um what are what are you eating?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the fact that as you age, you know, you need um more protein, you need um you need to um have nutrients that are gonna support what it is that you're cycling out, right?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: You need to pay attention to your bone health with good collagen um um foods, uh, for lack of a better word.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that in turn will support your skin health.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can't quite frankly get collagen by applying it to your face.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's just yeah, you can't.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's a it's a actually very large protein in our body, you know.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's yeah, I hear you.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I completely agree.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the overall wellness aspect is definitely like, you know, it's something that's not being talked about enough at all.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think um, you know, being able to gain advice in a multifactorial way when it comes to our skin health and when it comes to our just health, you know, our whole body health, especially for women as we age, like, you know, that's that's something that's truly good work and it it needs to just be propagated more.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that you're doing it.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I completely agree with you.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Ekta, I um so value what it is that you're doing.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that the more conversations we have that um operate from an authentic uh place, and I know people talk about that, you know, be authentic, be transparent.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of that is some of that's corporate speech, quite frankly.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I know, yeah.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: I hear you, but no, it is really to put truly, you know, to truly speak your truth um is um what I think inspires people and um and to have conversations that foster thinking.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, with skin care, with skin health, it's all very subjective because we're all different and our body makeup is different.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, it's uh that's important to factor in that no one thing does the same thing for everybody.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um it has to be really, you know, very well curated.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: But Heidi, I want to thank you so much.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: This has been amazing.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: You are so so lovely to speak with, and I would love to have you back anytime.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, and we can have another amazing conversation.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Ecta, thank you so much.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone listening out there, please check out the links that we we put up.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna tag uh Brilliance by Brown and and Heidi, and we're gonna have all the information in the captions.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: So definitely go check out the website, um brilliance by brown.ink.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, let us know what you think and about this episode or any of our episodes in the comments.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: We love hearing from you.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um any advice you have, anything you want to hear about, let us know as well.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I will be back next time.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Heidi.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Ecta.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: We are available on so many different platforms.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: You will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: This way, you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: We also have a blog on Medium.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're a reader and you love Medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.