Latest / Money And Wealth With John Hope Bryant / The Business of Ministry: Pastor Jamal Bryant on Leadership, Legacy & Economic Justice

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The Business of Ministry: Pastor Jamal Bryant on Leadership, Legacy & Economic Justice · Money And Wealth With John Hope Bryant

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Money and Wealth with John O'Bryant, a production
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: of the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Hey, Hey,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: everybody is John Bryant, The Money and Wealth podcast series,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Season three on Black Effect Network on iHeartRadio here and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: around the world. I want to thank you all for
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: making this podcast the top one percent in the world,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: top fifty for entrepreneurship, top two to fifty for business
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: on every continent in the world. And thanks also for
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: supporting me as I ramble on mostly as an individual.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: When I bring someone on this podcast, which is rare,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: you know they are an outside expert, someone with a
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: uniquely signature voice, someone I respect, and someone I know.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I don't bring people on my podcast I do not know.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: That's just one of my things. I've got to have
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  Speaker 1: a relationship with you. I have to know who you
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: are and who you are before I give you any
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  Speaker 1: space in my world. And such is the case today.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I have removed myself to make room for a voice
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: who can speak on this topic much better than me,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: no different than Michael Milkin, who is an architect of
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: really modern finance on Wall Street, or Ambassador Andrew Young,
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  Speaker 1: one of the architects for the second reconstruction and afford
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  Speaker 1: of my new book, my new best selling book Capitalism
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  Speaker 1: for All or Ed Bashan who runs the biggest airline
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  Speaker 1: in the world and the most profitable, also afford for
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  Speaker 1: my new book The Heroes and she Rose that I
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  Speaker 1: bring on are best in class. Today we speaker my friend,
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  Speaker 1: my brother, Reverend doctor Jamal Bran, Pastor Bryant, Jamal Bryant,
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  Speaker 1: and we're not literally related.
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  Speaker 2: Before that, you.
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  Speaker 3: Don't know that. You don't No, you don't know that.
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  Speaker 1: You don't know that I know that you made You
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: may to go check and talk to somebody. H as
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: an inside joke. People, Reverend Pastor Jamal Bryant is more
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  Speaker 1: than a preacher. He is a cultural organizer, a political force,
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  Speaker 1: a communicator, a very good one, and one of the
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  Speaker 1: few faith leaders in America who understands that the next
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  Speaker 1: civil rights movement may not begin in the streets alone,
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  Speaker 1: but in economics, ownership, technology, and collective consumer power. Jamal
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  Speaker 1: and I may disagree on how to exert that consumer power.
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  Speaker 1: We may start on different places, we end up in
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  Speaker 1: the same ultimate destination and location. We start maybe in
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  Speaker 1: the streets, we end up in the suites and whether
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: you agree with him or not. And any leader with
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  Speaker 1: a strong personality, you will have to learn to respect
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: them more than like them. That's the nature of leadership.
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  Speaker 1: I'd rather you respect me and learn to like me,
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  Speaker 1: than like me and never respect me anyway.
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  Speaker 3: Like is fickle, and.
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  Speaker 1: Whether you agree with them or not, Jamal Brian has
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  Speaker 1: consistently forced conversations that America would rather avoid in the
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  Speaker 1: legacy of the best civil rights leaders. Today, we're not
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  Speaker 1: just talking about faith. We're talking about power. We're talking
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: about money. We're talking about friendship ours. What you don't
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  Speaker 1: hear on the screen or with screaming, he and I
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  Speaker 1: may share some of our private, off the record conversations,
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  Speaker 1: that's really more up to him than me. We're talking
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  Speaker 1: about capitalism. We're talking about whether Black America is entering
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  Speaker 1: what historians may someday call the Third Reconstruction. And we're
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  Speaker 1: asking one of the most important questions of this era,
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  Speaker 1: can moral leadership still shape economic outcomes in America? As
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  Speaker 1: I introduced my brother, my friend, Pastor Jamal Bryant, I'd
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  Speaker 1: like for him to take a moment and share with
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  Speaker 1: the audience why from a creditionaling perspective, he has the
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  Speaker 1: moral and ethical and intellectual authority to say what he says,
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  Speaker 1: because a lot of folks.
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  Speaker 3: Run and around out here who.
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  Speaker 1: Talk about things they're not qualified to opine on, and
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  Speaker 1: Jamal to talk about things they actually has gone to
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  Speaker 1: school for.
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  Speaker 3: Let's hear from your boys.
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  Speaker 1: Reverend Jamal Bryant, some of those background credentials.
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  Speaker 3: Of your education.
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  Speaker 2: First of all, thank you, Johnathan, allow me to come on.
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  Speaker 2: It is hard for me. I thought about before coming
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  Speaker 2: on today.
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  Speaker 4: That I've known you going on thirty years is absolutely amazing,
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  Speaker 4: and so the credentials or qualifiers for this conversation for me,
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  Speaker 4: I have to introduce my dad that to happen.
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  Speaker 2: My dad is my superhero with how the Cape.
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  Speaker 4: I was married faithfully and successfully to my mom for
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  Speaker 4: fifty seven.
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  Speaker 2: Years, and I've never heard my dad use a curse word.
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  Speaker 4: I've always seen him operate at the highest level of integrity.
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  Speaker 4: He is a man who was considered the father of
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  Speaker 4: Neo Pentecostalism for the Aamy Church and my dad many
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  Speaker 4: years ago. In nineteen eighty four, John Bob Johnson asked
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  Speaker 4: my dad to.
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  Speaker 2: Be an investor in BT WOW, and my dad refused
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  Speaker 2: and said black people don't watch cable.
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  Speaker 3: Wow.
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  Speaker 4: And the money that Bob Johnson asked him to invest
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  Speaker 4: in the bet. He used that money and bought a Mercedes.
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  Speaker 4: Fast forward some years later, my dad becomes a bishop
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  Speaker 4: in the Aamy Church and he moves to Dallas, Texas.
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  Speaker 4: Gentleman is watching him move, lives in the neighborhood where
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  Speaker 4: my dad lives. Knocks when the door, says, Bishop grind
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  Speaker 4: you're a man of integrity, a man of honor. I've
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  Speaker 4: got a company that's getting ready to go public. I
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  Speaker 4: don't have anybody black on the board. I'd like you
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  Speaker 4: to consider it.
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  Speaker 2: John, this is nineteen eighty nine or nineteen ninety ninety one. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: my dad says to the gentleman.
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  Speaker 4: Nobody's gonna get on a plane where people pick their
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  Speaker 4: own seats.
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  Speaker 3: Wow, no way, Southwest.
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  Speaker 4: Airlines folk wear khakis. That airline was obviously Southwest Airlines.
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  Speaker 4: Some years after that, my dad was elected bishop of
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  Speaker 4: the Amy Church and went to Texas as a jurisdiction.
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  Speaker 4: Was living in Dallas, Texas to living there for some time.
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  Speaker 4: Gentlemen knocked on the door, said Bishop Brown, I've.
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  Speaker 2: Been watching you. See your characters upright, your reputation is steriling,
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  Speaker 2: and I don't have anybody black on the board. We're
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  Speaker 2: about to go public. Would you consider?
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  Speaker 4: And my dad said, nobody's getting on an airplane where
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  Speaker 4: people picked their own seats with flight attendants of wearing khakis.
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  Speaker 4: John's true story. At that time, Southwest Airlines was only
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  Speaker 4: in Texas. It wasn't even Nashville. My dad then became
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  Speaker 4: a bishop of West Africa, comprising of a Ghana sier
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  Speaker 4: earle on the Ivory Coast, Liberia, Nigeria, in a swathe
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  Speaker 4: of churches in Liberia that were.
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  Speaker 2: In the rural areas, and.
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  Speaker 4: Good Year Tier wanted to buy a lot of the
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  Speaker 4: land where his churches were. He said, no way is
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  Speaker 4: the church going to be able to give up this property.
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  Speaker 2: For rubber.
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  Speaker 4: As a consequence, John, I tell people I have three
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  Speaker 4: opportunities to walk into wealth and it never happened. Part
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  Speaker 4: of it, I say, people tongue in cheap but in
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  Speaker 4: serious sincerity. I probably wouldn't be on this podcast today.
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  Speaker 2: But if I weren't, I'd be in a different position
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  Speaker 2: than would I.
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  Speaker 1: Might be the podcast platform, renting equipment and written the airways.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and so I learned.
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  Speaker 4: Finance through missed opportunities. I learned finance. I am a
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  Speaker 4: third generation AAMI preacher, and my grandfather was a bishop
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  Speaker 4: in the Aami church. I'm dating myself and we used
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  Speaker 4: to John and I can't believe you or not, and
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  Speaker 4: I've had this story. I grew up in the age
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  Speaker 4: where the pastor lived in a parsonage, which is a
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  Speaker 4: home owned by the church. So my grandfather never owned
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  Speaker 4: a home until my father was in college. My parents
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  Speaker 4: never owned a home until I was in college. Both
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  Speaker 4: people individuals, great human beings, incredible humanitarians, heart for the community,
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  Speaker 4: but had not been postured or positioned for economic development.
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  Speaker 4: And it really helped me to sharpen what I thought
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  Speaker 4: about ministry and shopping about how I perceived my role
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  Speaker 4: as a cleric. True story, you asked me to talk
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  Speaker 4: about my credentials. I went to Morehouse in undergrad and John,
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  Speaker 4: my parents didn't have money for Morehouse, so every other
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  Speaker 4: semester two people paid for my college Congressman Floyd Flake
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  Speaker 4: out of New York.
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  Speaker 3: Man, huh good man. Yes.
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  Speaker 4: And second, you're not gonna believe it was Bishop Eddie
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  Speaker 4: Long really yes, yes, okay.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, And so I learned finance. My mother told me
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  Speaker 2: years ago. I used to work for a catering hall.
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  Speaker 4: In Baltimore and I couldn't stand my manager. And my
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  Speaker 4: mother said to me, bad managers are your best bosses
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  Speaker 4: because they teach.
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  Speaker 2: You what not to do when you get in charge.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, so I took principles of missed opportunities and applied
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  Speaker 4: them to my own life without even a road map.
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  Speaker 4: Even here there's being exposed with many people would say
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  Speaker 4: as a son of privilege, I didn't come up through
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  Speaker 4: a hard knock life, but I came underdeveloped because I
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  Speaker 4: didn't know what was really before me and what were
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  Speaker 4: the resources.
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  Speaker 2: That need to be multiplied.
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  Speaker 1: It's very interesting listening to you and unpacking that history,
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  Speaker 1: most of which I did not know.
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  Speaker 3: And we're friends and we've talked a lot. I did
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  Speaker 3: not know that.
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  Speaker 1: So people should always come to conversation's nosy. Yeah, gave
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  Speaker 1: you two ears in one mouth, so you listen, So
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  Speaker 1: you listen twice as much as you talk. Yes, you
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  Speaker 1: should come to things nosy, Quincy Jones got restless. So
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  Speaker 1: how'd you get so smart? I'm just nosy as hell. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I want to know everything about everything, so I'm glad.
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  Speaker 1: I was nosy because I just learned some very valuable things.
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  Speaker 1: And you also triggered something in me. My wife, who
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  Speaker 1: was amazing Shatra yes uh, said to me recently, I
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  Speaker 1: was frustrated about something. We were talking about timeliness of
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  Speaker 1: something being done. And she said, and I said, look,
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  Speaker 1: you know, first generation, we're in a hurry, like we're
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  Speaker 1: we're the builders where the hustlers.
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  Speaker 3: We don't have backup plans. We are the plan. Time
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  Speaker 3: is money.
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  Speaker 1: And she reminded me she's second reac she's second generation, right.
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  Speaker 1: Her daddy built, helped to build right Aid with two
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  Speaker 1: Jewish guys, and her daddy built and so public traded companies,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: first pharmacists to graduate from school and I think in
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  Speaker 1: West Virginia and doctor David Dalton. And so the point
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  Speaker 1: was at times not necessarily money for her. That's not
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  Speaker 1: the way she was raised. She was raised to focus
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  Speaker 1: on the experience and so second so uh, second generation
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  Speaker 1: and third generation is just a whole nother thing. But
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  Speaker 1: I had to and she said, like maybe she's like, baby,
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  Speaker 1: I never saw a murder in my life.
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  Speaker 3: You have right.
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  Speaker 1: I wasn't homeless, you have you were And I and you,
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  Speaker 1: you know, other words, don't blame me for not having
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: those experiences. Understand that my experience of yours. And by
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: the way, I need her to be at a walk
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: into a room, which she does, yeah with uh blacks
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  Speaker 1: and browns of privilege and have that comfort that allows
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  Speaker 1: me to bridge into it because I got an edge
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  Speaker 1: to me that makes them often uncomfortable. And so my
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  Speaker 1: point of that is versus saying that as a negative.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I saw it as a net positive. Tupulusitution equals six,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: eight or ten in a relationship. We're better together. But
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: as you have bridged uniquely from privilege to public, I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: have tried to bridge from public to privilege. And maybe
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  Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons we like each other so much.
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  Speaker 1: Is this unarticulated commonality because a lot of people who
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: are privileged just want to stay there and it drives
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  Speaker 1: me nuts.
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  Speaker 3: I mean that.
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  Speaker 1: Irritates the hell out of me. Yeah, I hate entitlement,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: drives me absolutely out of my mind. And you could
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: have stayed there had your Ferrari, had your whatever life
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  Speaker 1: and been cool, and you chose to disrupt, you chose
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  Speaker 1: to bridge, You've chosen. I just think it gives me
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  Speaker 1: more respect for you.
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  Speaker 2: By the way, your father in law.
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  Speaker 3: Who by the way, that's what I forgot about it,
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  Speaker 3: you know, doctor David Dalton.
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  Speaker 2: Ver.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, your father in law is one of my mentors
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  Speaker 4: who really pushed me. I was a pastoring in Baltimore,
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  Speaker 4: a young adult church. We were doing three services on
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  Speaker 4: Sunday morning and police outside directing traffic. I didn't know
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  Speaker 4: doctor Dalton at the time. Somebody invited him to the church.
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  Speaker 4: After church, I met him and he said, I want
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: to take you to lunch. Said, I'd love to we
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: go to lunch.
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  Speaker 2: John, and your father in law said to me, you're
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  Speaker 2: moving all of these people.
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  Speaker 3: What are you going to do with them?
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  Speaker 4: M I said, what do you mean? He says, yes,
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  Speaker 4: it's nice that you you got a full church, but
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: the zip code where you're pastoring in is Renters. They're
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: using public transportation. How are you going to shift this community?
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  Speaker 4: And John, my whole mind had been on building a church,
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  Speaker 4: not on building a city.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and doctor.
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  Speaker 4: Dalton made he reevaluate my own rais on debt about
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: what ministry looked like, what church look like, and how
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  Speaker 4: it is that refuse it that to have a mega church,
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  Speaker 4: but to have a minor impact is a grave indictment.
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  Speaker 2: Our mutual funeral.
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  Speaker 4: Doctor King, never pastored more than three hundred people, never
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: pastor more than three hundred.
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  Speaker 2: People, and changed the world, change the world.
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  Speaker 4: It's not the size of your church that makes the difference,
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: it's the size of what that mission is. And really,
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  Speaker 4: and I thank your father in law last time I
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  Speaker 4: saw him here in Atlanta.
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  Speaker 2: Is that his I'm gonna say, scolding me. He's not
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: gonna say that, but.
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  Speaker 5: His very few words, as you know, yes, no, oh yes,
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  Speaker 5: he's gonna stand you with a butter knife.
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  Speaker 2: But uh, it prepared me, John for where I am now. Uh.
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  Speaker 4: And had I not lived through missed opportunities, failed experiences,
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  Speaker 4: or robbed exposure, then I'm gonna look at where it
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: is that I am in just done church and miss
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: what was the greater responsibility and greater mission that was
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: in front of me.
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  Speaker 1: Well, doctor Dalton, your mother and father and the pastors
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  Speaker 1: who put you through college, and all the unnamed hero
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  Speaker 1: and heroes who supported you, did you? Did you in
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: society some real service? And uh, my wife loves your
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: preacher H. Bryant, and she admires what you have done.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: And the family is a booster. Now people here, uh
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: will assume we're going to talk about politics in Washington,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: d C. I don't want to mention his name and
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: race and church drama and activism and social media controversy.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: What I want to know is what replaces the civil
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: rights movement economically, I call it civil rights and what
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: does that look like? Specifically? You building, you're building real
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: estate over there. You're doing things, and you both it's
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: not it's not one of the art, it's both. You
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: are feeding the homeless. You are literally giving people resources
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: they don't have because you can't have them. Falls with
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: the cracks, which are also creating infrastructure and given that
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: in a minute, so we don't talk about ownership AI,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: collective economics, demographic shifts, male identity, capitalism, institutional decline, spiritual exhaustion,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: rebuilding community, any one of those you want to jump on.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: But let me tea up with one question, disruptive question.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: The Black Church was America's first black owned institution. People
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: may or may not know that. Yes, first black school,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: first black insurance company for his black corporation. Like literally,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I think it was ame church if I'm not mistaken. Yes,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: people think the Black Church was only spiritual. In fact,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: there was only place where slaves could talk freely during
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: that era. But historically it was also the first black bank,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: for his Black school, for his Black insurance system, for
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: its political network, first mental health center, and first economic
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: development institution.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Have we for gotten that? Did the church loses economic mission?
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  Speaker 4: I think that the church has lost its way because
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: we shifted our language from community development to personal achievement.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: Whoa talk to me?
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: My grandfather generation used a phrase, John, that we don't
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: hear anymore, called a credit to the race. Is that
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: if somebody's doing something, then the whole race would applaud
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: and be proud of it. Now it is what I have,
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: what I've done, and it shifted from the nineteen eighties
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  Speaker 4: to the present. That I don't know, John, the last
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: time I give an example, I don't know the last
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: time that I went to a mortgage burning service. I
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  Speaker 4: am embarrassed for my generation of fifty four that I
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  Speaker 4: don't know anybody in my generation who is building.
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  Speaker 2: In ministry outside of a church or a family life center.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know how it is that.
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  Speaker 4: This is an information age and a lot of the
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: Black church is still inspiration driven.
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  Speaker 3: Motivation.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, so it's a glorified ted talk, but we're not
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: getting real information that can substantiate where it is that
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: we are and how it is that we move. And
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: part of it, unpopular opinion is that the intellectual economic
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: deficiency of the people is a reflection of the economic illiterate.
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  Speaker 3: See of the pastor amen.
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  Speaker 4: I sound the alarm and passes get upset about it
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  Speaker 4: all the time that if your church only talks about
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: economics when they're asking you for your tithe then it's
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: a Ponzi scheme. They've got to figure out how it
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: is that we multiply.
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  Speaker 2: The ninety percent. We know what it is that we're
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: supposed to give to God and to the mission. But
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: if I'm not showing you how to multiply the ninety when.
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: They came to arrest Jesus in the garden, the Roman
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: soldiers didn't know which one was Jesus because all the
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: disciples had on the same kind of road. If I
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: am not empowering the people around me to be at
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: the same level, then I am not really shepherding. And
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: so I think that we've got to do an overhaul
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: that takes away from the historic Black church.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: That would suggest that the pastor knows everything.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: Your mentor and my hero, the honorable Ambassador Young, one
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: of the geniuses of the movement. Doctor King was smart
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: enough to put smart people around them. Andrew Young was
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: not an armor bearer. He was not He was not
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: the security guy.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: He was in the think tank. And I think that
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: pastors have to put people around.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: Him who are able to think and able to move
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: and able to see what they can't see. Jesus when
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: he called the twelfth Disciples, didn't call it anybody from
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: seminary or Bible college. He called all of the disciples
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: from business, and he didn't call any of them at church.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: He called them off their job. He went and saw
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: them on the fishing boat. He saw them.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: Why they would because he was of the mind if
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: you can't do business, you're not fit for ministry.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: And a lot of Black churches are failing because we
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: make people leaders for perfect attendance, not for proficiency.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Just because you can pray don't mean you should be
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: a trustee. You got to put some people at the
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: table to say, hey, pastor, I know you are annoying it.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I know you love God, but do we really need
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: an led wall right now, and we can't pay the drama.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: There's some other things that we need to talk about.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: Unpopular opinion, John, I'm gonna be taken to the stake
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: on This is the conversation we don't have is the
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: Black Church's role in gentrification because those abandoned properties were
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: all around the church and we took no move to
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: go buy up them houses. Why because the members only
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: came the church in the hood but moved back to
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: the suburbs, but didn't do real investment and revitalization in
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: that community.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: That's why.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: Again a mutual hero both of ours, the late doctor
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: Chip Mary was such a rock star, Yes, because he
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: understood it Los Angeles.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that you have to be able to mobilize that
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: community and can you live in it.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: By the way, literally on your point, like even if
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you want to distribute money like a socialist, you got
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: a first collected like a capitalist, and you have to
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: own something to direct something. So yesterday I got a
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: call from my thirty billion dollar partner in La CIM Group,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: a new partner on my real estate, on the business
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: side of my life, and my CIMBGV Impact Ventures partnership
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: doing affordable housing multifamily. And they said, John, we're about
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: to close on a transaction which I can't get the
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: details at the moment, but it'll be public soon and
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: in LA and essentially, do you want to name it
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: after someone? And I said, yeah, let's name it after
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Reverend doctor C SEO Chip Murray.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: And uh, they said that sounds great to us. And
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: you know, now, if I was not an owner there, yeah,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: if I didn't have a general partnership, if I didn't
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: have a voice, if I didn't have a seat at
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: the table.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: If you're not at the table, you're on the menu. Yeah,
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: I mean I could have wrote a.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Letter to the owners and said, will you please consider
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: There could have been some committee, right, can you.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Name a room after room?
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: No, No, they called me out of respect and said,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: what who would you like to honor here? And we
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: were of the same accord. It just so happened. Literally
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: it was yesterday and you mentioned Reverend stood Hi Murray
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: out of the blue again, Andrew Young quote Bachlor Young,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous. But this is
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: what ownership does for you. You get to direct things,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: You get to to say things and do things. All
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: money is is freedom. That's another doctor David Dalton quote.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: No, that's great. I Phase two of our building project
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: at New Birth will be senior housing that I'm naming
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: after Congressman Flake Beautiful. So again it.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: Speaks to that same thing. And we talk about or
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: having talked about, you and I probably the rest people
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: in the world who met on Air Force two. That's
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: a whole other story.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: That's a whole other story.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: We met on Air Force two.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: But really you all took my seat, by the way,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: to be real clear, everybody have no problem with me
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: taking Delta United and he was on a.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: No problem taking my seat.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But the legacy again of you talking about the
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: shift of the Black church.
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: We were on Air Force two really as the manifestation
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: of the vision of Leon Sullivan, Yes, who was a
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: pastor but had a global dies spor vision of what
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: economic development was not just in your neighborhood, but what
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: were black people going to do economically with all of
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: the funds that we were raising.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Had to be more than a fellowship haul in the
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: pastor's anniversary, but just the things that he was doing
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: in terms of global dies sport, trade and things on
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: that wise is I think where the church has lost
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: its footing in contemporary.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Day and but for those who don't know, because we
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: take the complicated and make it simple here and we
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: don't want to ever assume. Reverend Leon Sullivan was arguably
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the doctor King of Africa. Yes, and the first black
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: man to serve on a corporate board in America, public public, public, public,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: corporate board. I believe it was Ford Motor Company or
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: GM or something and just a great human being and uh,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: somebody who we all should do research on. Let's go
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: back now to the church. And when you got to
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: a new birth, you taking over Eddy long, what did
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: you find without giving out confidential information? What did you find?
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: What you have to do?
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Let's demystify the business side of this that you had
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: to restructure, Yes, and what can what can the audience
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: learn from not just what you say you say on
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: social media and what you do in the business meeting, Yeah,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: what you did in the business meeting.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: Public information at this point I got to a new
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: birth and only after arriving as the pastor that I
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: find that we were thirty four million dollars in debt,
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: that John we were six months from foreclosure. What that
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: Decab County had plans to change our church to the
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: Decab Convention Center.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: That we were.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: The note was being held by an organization that no
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: longer exists, but now it is the Evangelical Christian Credit
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: Union ECCU, and they called in the loan because I
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: was not an evangelical and that the only way that
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: they would hold it is if I publicly renounced black
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: lives matter. What Yeah, Jonas, Jonas, It's been a ride, brother,
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: it's been a ride.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: So when I got there, I absolutely he had no idea.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: Now, part of the demystification that I want to land
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: is that people watch an episode of Green Leaf and
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: think that's how all Mecca churches operate.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: There was no Rose Royce waiting on me.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: By the way, Bring Me was actually recorded on the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: campus extended campus of a new Birth and as a
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: property across the street. Yes, Bill Allen, or black man
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: who owned a bunch of continued yeah.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: And.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to demystify that. I want to just
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: say in passing because most people don't know that seventy
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: eight black pastors are by vocational, so they're working a job.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Most of the week and then preaching and paying the
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: organists on Sunday. And so I want you to get
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: out of your head. Not you, John, but the listeners.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: The weight of the Black Church, the average Black Church
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: member is just fifty people.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: When I came to a new birth, unpopular opinion, unpopular fact.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I lived John for six months in uh embassy suites
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: because yes, because they didn't have money for housing. When
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I got to birth, Yes, when I got to birth,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: the great new birth. When I got to new.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Birth, I want to give credit Tommy dors by the way,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: the late Tommy Dorrises were helping to bridge you into
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: new birth. Want to give him in his legacy proper
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: credit continued.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: Yes, when I got here, Levin and Son Funeral Home
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: loaned me a car.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: For me to drive. Wow.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: So this whole notion.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: About make a passage just balling out of control. I
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: wanted to first just demystify that. And so I am
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: new on the job. I have never done anything John,
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: in the orbit of thirty four million dollars my indebtedness
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: in Baltimore Empowerment Temple, I had a charter school and
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: a family life center. My full indebtedness left when I
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: left was three point four million dollars.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: We were on the road in two years to burn that.
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: So when I got to thirty four million, let me
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: say to you all, Tommy George's that's my guy.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: When he recruited me, he didn't tell me about the debt.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: That means he's a good negotiator.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: He's the best negotiator, a great recruiter. Yes, figured out.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: So I didn't know.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: Even how to breathe that level of oxygen. I was
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: building a plane in the air and really had to
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: sit down and learn it was not executing a plan
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: that I knew. I had to be a student to
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: say what I don't know. When they say pride comes
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: before the fall, that's real stuff. I don't want you
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: all to think that's just out of a fortune cookie.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I had to really sit with people who I trusted
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: who were in that space. And let me add.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: Ninety nine percent of the people who I sat with
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: to coach and to mentor and to teach me were
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: not pastors.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: They were business people.
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: And a lot of times we limit the opportunity of
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: who has access to our ear by thinking they can
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: only be people in our field. And so I am
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: grateful for the lights of mister Mike Roberts out of
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: Saint Louis who helped me. Layton Hall who was able
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: to help me. Incredible woman. I don't know why I'm
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: blanking out on her. Mama is gonna kill me. Daniels
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: out of Milwaukee, John helped me.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: It'll come to Milwaukee.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she owns all of the Burger King She's the
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: minority owner of the Milwaukee Bucks. Daniels, it'll come to us, Yes,
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: is it Valerie Daniels, Yes, Valley Daniels.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Carter was one of those who really helped me. Williams
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: out of Baltimore, who really just came and uh put
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: galls and uh alcohol on me and say, hey, just
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: gonna believe for a while, but you're gonna have to
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: really do the.
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: Type up a staff, the largest staff i'd ever given
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: oversight to John of sixty two people, and my second
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: week there, the head of HR puts four folders in
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: front of me and says, pick the insurance playing for
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: sixty two people. I didn't know what I was doing.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: And one of the arguments that that any pastors who
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: were watching is I think that in seminary there should
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: be a business.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Class, amen, in a financial literacy course, Yes, in an
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: AI course, Yes, in an unpacking capital.
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: I have really learned twenty first century pastoring since being
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: at new birth of really baptized, baptized by fire.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: James Baldwin h to really learn what are the.
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: Ins and outs and understanding that there's a legacy that
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: has to be bigger than who it is that you are.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: So the first lesson I want people to listen to
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: to underscore. Here is a post that I put up
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: earlier this week or late last week, connects with this message.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: If you don't have.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Stripes and scars, stripes of achievement in the military, scars
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: of experience, yeah, please shut up and listen. You think, oh,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: I see him out there and he's always dressing beautiful
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: and going to advance and he's always talking.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: That's easy, I can do it. Knock it off.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Look, I'm so tired of people who think that being
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: pretty is enough, that being smart is enough, being cool
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: is enough to have gotten in education, which I encourage
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: you to do, is enough that because you have tripped
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: on third base, you thought you had a triple, because
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: you lucked up on bit, are you lucked up on
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: a moment where people were open to black people in
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two. You got some
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: lucky thing that happened to you, and you think or
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: you were paid by social media for eighteen months and
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: you now think that this defines eighteen years. No, you
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: got lucky, and you need to shut up and listen
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: to people who have experienced. Otherwise you're gonna have a
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: really bad awakening because experience comes from books and records,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: but wisdom comes from life happening to you.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: And what Reverend Jamal Brian is telling you are.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: His experiences of failure of challenges because Rainbow's only follow
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: storms that has allowed him to grow real bones of
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: wisdom in leadership, which gives him, in my mind, much
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: more outside credibility to speak with authority. Now you need
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: to also understand for all you think you know about
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: doctor King, he mentioned that he was foreclosed upon by
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: a church organization because he was not part of their
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: denomination or whatever.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Do you know that doctor King was kicked out.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Of the nat And I'm not talking to him talking
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: to our viewers now he knows this kicked out of
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the National Baptist Convention, that a great doctor. King kicked out.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: They were intimidated by him, jealous of him.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Whatever.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: The other civil rights leaders wouldn't talk to him. When
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: he won the Nobel Peace Prize. Staffs how that money
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: should go to them? The organization was broke. He said, no,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: we're gonna share this with the other civil rights leaders
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: weren't here. So he sends ten cables out with ten
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars each, which at this time is equivalent today
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: of a couple hundred thousand dollars, wires it to each
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: one of them. Jamal they this is directly from Andrew
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Young told me. Never heard of peep back from.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: Any of them.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: They so resented his success they didn't even say thank you.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: And of course no one said this. I've shared it
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: because it's context for this conversation. Rainbows only follow storms.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: You cannot have a rainbow without a storm first. You
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: can't grow except through legitimate suffering. So he's earned his stripes.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Shut up and listened to him, irrespective.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: Of his age. And I didn't realize we were actually
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: this close in age. Let me go to another top.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: We're gonna this conversation is so rich, we're gonna maybe
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: have to do this in two parts. If people like
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: the first part, because out of everything I want to
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: talk about, we'll only get to I think three questions.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Let me deal with a second question. Just get it
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: out the way. Can we protest our way into ownership alone?
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: We mastered marching, but we haven't mastered markets. Can communities
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: truly become powerful if they only influence politics but don't
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: own capital.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: Now, let me just say this.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Jamal and I theoretically disagree on a certain situation that
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: went down a few years ago with a major retailer.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: He and I talked about it. That had been that
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: that train had left the station.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: When he had and I had talked, it had already started,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: and the question was whether he was going to help
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: amplify it. And I gave him advice he had no
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: control over because it had already been sort of in motion.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: I said, if I were you, and I talked to you,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and I talked to our sister from New York a
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: name I'm blanking on her name, Tamika, who's fantastic.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: She's brilliant. I really like her.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: I said to both of them, don't protest them out,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: buy them out, Go buy every black product on the shelf,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: make the restock. And as high minded and intellectual as
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: that was, and I do believe ultimately an effective strategy,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: that wasn't the moment that we were in. And sometimes
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: in order to partner, you got to protest first. So
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I in order for people to listen to me, sometimes
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: they have to be listening to first. So the whole
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: history of Operation Hope is somebody else protested, shook a tree,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: and then I was there to sort of grab the fruit,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: you know. So let's talk about this in any way
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: you want to yet, can we Can we just do
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: marching and protest?
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: No?
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: No, No.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: One of the.
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: Lessons I learned from the Target Movement John that I
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: didn't Yes, you know. One of the lessons I learned
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: is because there's a seven seventy year gap between the
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: Montgomery Bus boy kint and the Target Movement his what have?
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: And in that vacuum is I am a part of
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: a generation that doesn't know the difference between boycott and
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: cancel culture. Hm, those are two totally different things.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: My head, I'm like, yeah, See.
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: The boycott was to negotiate. The people in Montgomery were
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: never of the resolve. We ain't ever getting back on
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: the bus.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: We're staying off of it until such this happened. And
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: I am in that bridge generation from the Boomers to
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Gen Z where the lexicon has shifted, and I was
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: operating on what you challenge me on are you going
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: to use what you said to me? Are you going
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: to use a seventy year old template for a modern
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: a ivory?
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: And I was caught between both of those, because how
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: then do I go back to negotiate when the resolve
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: is we'll never return. That's part one, part two in
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: the Huge Yes, Part two of that. In the history
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: of Nigro Doom, I'm making up a word. In the
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: history of nicrodom, we have.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Never boycotted one institution, white owned institution and push people
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: to another white owned institution. So we said all target
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: is bad, Everybody go to.
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: Costco, which exposed that in seventy years we had not
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: curated a black owned big box store. That we were
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: still doing it in a smaller vacuum. So there were
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: some other dykes that we had to in fact close
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: up in that education process. And part of the implosion
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: was the absence of knowledge of saying, hey, we're doing
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: it until this happens, and then we go back to
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: pivot to ask for this. But it was almost a
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: betrayal because I was saying this fast when the culture
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: was digesting a cancelation, which is I.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Had never put those two things together. But this makes
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: so much sense because when I was talking to Ambassador Young,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: who is the last living lieutenant of Doctor Martin Luther
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: King Jr. And the only one to take doctor King's
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: theology to go run a city, yes, Atlanta, And of
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: course Atlanta is a tenth larg's economy in the US,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: the only international city in the South, and an economy
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: that's bigger than Singapore, with all races of people benefiting.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: And so I think box checked. He succeeded on that.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: And let's listen to him. And you know, doctor King
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: never wanted him arrested because he was a negotiator to
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: get us back to the table.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: He was the guy that hit the whole point of
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: the of.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: The of the of the protests was to shut down
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: the economy temporarily to get them to send Andrew Young
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: in take the take the overalls off business and and
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: behind closed doors at in the darken night, quietly without
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: TV cameras, no embarrassment. Go talk to these folks and
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: cut a business deal to take the whites only signs
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: down to get access, to get some people hired.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: Let's and it is not to be.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: It's not looking for a perfection. There's no perfection. We
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: want a software upgrade here. We want to step forward,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: a meaningful step forward. It may take three or four
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: meaningful step forwards. And you know I joked that Uber
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: came out of black folks in Montgomery, Alabama, on.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: Those black taxis.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when they wouldn't get on the privately owned bus company.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: The bus company was like, I don't care whether you
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: After six weeks, I don't care whether you black, brown, orange,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: or purple. Can you please bring me back my green?
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: We need these customers. And that's what allowed Andrew Young
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: to go cut a deal. Now I'll say this, you
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: can't with my philosophy and Andrew Young, who would agree
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: with this is talk without being offensive, Listen without being defensive,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: and always leave even your adversary with their dignity, because
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: if you don't, that's been the rest of their life
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: working to make you miserable. It becomes personal. And what
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: you said here, which I wasn't thinking about You just
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: educated me somehow protesting and cancel crush culture got connected
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: and Andrew Young and Bashorr Young was, I'm gonna share
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: this with him. He's trying to figure out, why are
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: we angry? Why are we emotional? You can't make a
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: good decision angry and emotional. You wanted to end. You
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: really want to win, win. You want to win, You
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: want them to win, otherwise it will never end. Yeah,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: So he said, we don't have tanks and military and
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. You got to be elegant about this.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: And so you just you just educated me, And now
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: I know why. Tamika also was sensitive about that moment
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: and didn't just do a pivot because she realized that
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: she's dealing with a lot of emotions. Yeah, that were
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: already welled up and had to go somewhere. So what
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: black people need is a software upgrade. What we need
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: is a softwareup grade on our strategies, taking a page
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: out of what was successfully done in the second reconstruction
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: and pulling it into and upgrading it for a new
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: era in the third reconstruction, which is a period I
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: think we're in now.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: That was very educational, Jamal, Thank you, sir, it's a
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: trial by fire.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna be unfair and say there's something
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: you do differently because you stepped into a moment that
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: had left it was already in root, and I think
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: you did the best you could with the situation you
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: were you had, And I would I must say to
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: the audience I admired Jamal because he would call me
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: and say, I'm at this inflection point, what do you think?
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: He may not have done what I said, but he
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: at least asked the question. Or he call me and
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: say I'm going to this meeting, would you go with me?
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: That's humility and that's and that's wisdom. And we should
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: give people like him more support, not more criticism. It's
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: very easy to be the chief criticism officer. I like
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: what he's doing better than what most people are not doing.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: So go shut up and sit down somewhere, or do something.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Are we in the third reconstruction? First reconstruction post Slavery,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: second reconstruction? Civil rights movement, access, third reconstruction? Economics, technology,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: AI and ownership?
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: Yes or no? And what do we do about it?
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: I think that we in puberty. We between I think John,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: we're between two. I think.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: Full disclosure for the audience. We were supposed to do
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: this conversation a month or two months ago. Have we
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: done this conversation when we was originally supposed to do it?
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: I would say yes. Where we are now, with the
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: gutting of the Voting Rights Act of the Supreme Court,
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: with the stripping of representation and voices in Tennessee and Louisiana,
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: Alabama and now potentially Georgia, South Carolina, I think that
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: we are having to fight for two and three.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: Same time.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: So I am two in an achievement of three yes,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: And I would argue the way you lock into but
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: permanently is three yes.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: And so I'm not just a friend of John's, I'm
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: a fan. So yes, I think that the playing field
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: is even out around AI and I access out of capital.
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: But I still think that there's some other areas from
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: two that we're now going to have to go back
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: and revisit. You on the board four o'clock, Atlanta University.
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: I'm on three boards at HBCUs around the country. When
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: you look at two HBCUs have oult bankruptcy in the
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: last thirty days. When we hail Clark at moor House
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: and Howard and Hampton and FAMU. But when you look
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: at those smaller colleges that are really going to be
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: fighting just to breathe for uh, you can receive a
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: swallowed up. If you can imagine the honorable Representative Clyburn,
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: first representative for South Carolina in one hundred years, uh,
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: and they're talking about taking.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Away his district.
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when the home of John lewis that Governor Kemp
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: is calling an emergency session uh to relook at those maps.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: So uh, we're having to fight both of these at
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: the same time. So while it is that there are
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: well springs where we're able to secure income without facial recognition.
• 53:42
  Speaker 6: There still some other places where we've got to touch
• 53:46
  Speaker 6: the Rosetta stone to figure out how we're going to
• 53:49
  Speaker 6: be able to thrive in those, uh, in those other
• 53:52
  Speaker 6: market spaces.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna my last statement on this point, and
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: then i want to ask you a vision statem. I'm
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: gonna ask you something I never asked in guests, which
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: is to give us a closing vision.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: For not just Black America, but for America. You're from
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: your perspective.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: My statement on what you just said, our Jewish brothers
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: and sisters who were half of the white leadership support
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: of doctor King and the civil rights movement. Little known
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: fact who went to jail and even were murdered with
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: civil rights leaders in the Second Reconstruction. They are two
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: to three percent of the American population. They are a
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: microcosm of the world's population fifteen million total, seven and
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: a half million here out of eight billion people in
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: the world. But they are forty percent of all billionaires,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: the majority of.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: The hate and the.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: And the.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Resentment, and certainly during Hitler's days, the Jews were in
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: leadership in Germany, in business, political leadership, and they were
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: doing a good job and representing most people, but there
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: was resentment and jealousy, jealousy of their success, and they
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: were targeted then and they are targeted now. But the
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: reason that they are still here and can push back
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: with such a minuscule group in the world population and
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: even have their own country is because of their economic strength.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Because from day one they couldn't own property in Europe,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: and you know, they had to own so they became
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: experts in mercians and finance, and then as a backdoor
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: that used finance to then control with the property but
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: they were forced to become merchants and capitalists. And oddly enough,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: the thing that I mean Goldman Sachs is Goman and Sacks.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: And I think there's a page to be taken out
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: of that book about how a group that has been
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: tried to be extinguished from this earth has rows up
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: like a phoenix of strength in spite of the drama
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: coming at them. And Blacks have to be the Africa,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: but Jews are the Israel, which is a resource. But
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: before that we gotta be we gotta go from cashing
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: the check to write.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: I want to take a page from that out of
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: your lens and put it into mind.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Done.
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: And what I want to say is, there's not a
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: Jewish synagogue in America. There's not one Jewish synagogue in
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: America that has a mortgage.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: There's only one Black church.
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: In America that has an endowment, yes, which is Ebenezer.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: Wooh yeah. Okay.
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: For you to start a church in the Church of
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: God in Christ, you need fifty people to sign a
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: sheet of paper. They send their credentials to Memphis. Memphis
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: then approves it, gives a mess seal. In that documentation,
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: they're officially a cult at church. Wow, gentlemen, I give
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: you this. You're gonna have a nose blame and wake
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: up in the middle of the night. To start a
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: Jewish synagogue. You don't need fifty people, you need twelve.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: But the twelve people John have to be financially independent.
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: Whoa really yes?
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So as a consequence, I'm coming for you.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: How many disciples did Jesus choose twelve? All twelve had
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: to already be in business, had to already be successful.
• 57:54
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: So in both the business lane that you occupy and
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: walk in and in mind in the faith space, is
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: there lessons that we've got to learn about how it
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: is that we redo this thing to be a formidable force.
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: Yeahge Hoover nineteen sixty nine said the greatest threat to
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: democracy in America was the Black Panther Party. At the time,
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: the Black Panther Party only had three hundred paid members,
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: and they were considered the greatest threat to American democracy.
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: The question that we've got to ask is how many
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: black megachurches are the FBI not concerned about because they're
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: not doing any training, they're not really impacting their community alone,
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: they're not educating the kids, they're not looking out for
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: the seniors. So we've got to do a complete overhaul
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: of mindset, remapping.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: The remapping that and again I'm tap dancing on your stage.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Is wealth for us is not what we can buy.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: It is not what we can purchase. It is what
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: it is that we can impact.
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: And what I failed to mention in the early part
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: of our conversation is that part of the onus and
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: responsibility that rested on me, John new Birth, is if
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: not the the leading land owning, continuous land owning black
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: church in America, and if on this land all I
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: had was a megachurch in a gym, then what is
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: the indictment that it says to the community.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Desmond two two.
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: In his autobiography, Desmond two two said, at the end
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: of every year, the poorest people in the community should
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: vote to see whether the church stays open.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: The next year.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: Hello, hold on, hold on black again?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: Next year?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: Yes, If we allowed the poorest people in the community
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: to vote on whether that church would be open the
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: following year, a lot of churches would close.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: And so we've got a day.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we got a responsibility to do more and and
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: sew more, and to invest more.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: As we wrap up, I want the audience to know, again,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: these are not things that you'd hear from Jamal Briant.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: He's not gonna brag on himself. He's not.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Every time I brought Bishop td Jakes into La at
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Atlanta in the first row, Reverend Jamal Bryant, no, no attention,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: no interviews, not on the schedule, sitting there, listening, watching, observing,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: sidebar with Bishop Jakes.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: Learning.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: I want to say something right there. I think Bishop
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: Jakes is greatly under celebrated for the depth of the
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: human that he is. He is a modern day renaissance man,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: and regrettably a lot of people have reduced him to
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: be a great preacher. Yes, and while he is that,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: and he is that, he is absolutely that the full.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Spans of who he is.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: I'm in love with Bishop's mind and how it is
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: that he's been able to repackage with twenty first century
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: ministry is supposed to look like. And I pause, thank
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: you for allowing me to interrupt you, because very rarely
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: do men give other men their flowers, and I wanted
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: to just on record give Bishop Jackson's flowers just because
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: of I think he's Hercules one.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: I call him the black Pope.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: He is that.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Is there anything as we dropped the mic here, this
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: has been extraordinary? Is there anything that you want to
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: leave with this audience, both for them to think about,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: to ponder on, to be encouraged by, and to do,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: even if it's to help you to do something. Is
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: there something that you want to leave.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: This is a frightening moment for me as a black
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: pastor in America. This is the largest amount in the
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: history of Black people in America. Is the largest amount
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: of Black people in our history who don't go to church. Wow,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: we're at twenty eight percent.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: It is the largest amount of Black people in our
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: history in America who self identify as atheist. Who we're
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: at eight percent? And so I want to say for
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: the nameless and faceless pastors in.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: The community that you live in, to give them an opportunity.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: The most known pastor in your city is not always
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: the most effective pastor. And so find a pastor who's
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: really meeting the needs of your community, who's addressing their needs.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: The cameras may not be following them, but the results
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: are yes.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: And so I pray that I don't know who this
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: is for that you'll give church another chance, You'll give
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: faith another opportunity, and to know that God is always available.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: And that's a nice bridge to what will probably be
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: a second conversation because on technology and AI. I do
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: believe that as we go through this, I mean, you
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: think people think the political environment is tough right now,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: that's going to end at some point. This whole thing
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: we're dealing with right now is going sow between six
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: months and eighteen months.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: The tip of this beer is going to dull.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: But what's not going to end is artificial intelligence transforming
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: literally everything, and it's gonna affect jobs, careers, you know, trajectory,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: how we all live. And as we go to technology
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: and obsess about it completely, I think it's going that
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: people are gonna get lonely and disconnected and are going
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: to want to run back to human interaction. And I've
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: told Bishop Jakson, I'm telling you get ready, get prepared.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: They're running back to you. This is my future prediction. Yeah,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: They're coming back to you looking for meaning and purpose
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: in their life. That atheist thing ain't going to work.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: I love you, brother, I'm grateful for you. Keep leading
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: from the front.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Love to the family, and too. I'll call our father
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: the law. Please tell doctor Dobbin.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Appreciate your beautiful wife and family. Love and life, Money
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: and Wealth with John O'Brien is a production of the
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from the Black
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Effect Podcast Network, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.