Latest / Drip Talk by Boshart / Why the Best Salespeople Make Mistakes First (S1.10)

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Why the Best Salespeople Make Mistakes First (S1.10) · Drip Talk by Boshart

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Breathe McHugh and welcome back to our podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to introduce you to this newest episode, which we have Ian McDougal on.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: He is our territory manager in Canada, and he started with us actually in customer service.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: So he was a great guest, and we talked about just his first year and all the things he learned and maybe things he kind of wished he would have known.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we also talk about some sales identities that we learned from Fervesco.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a great episode.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I really hope you enjoy it.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive into it.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Ian, thank you for joining me today on our podcast.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's nice to have you here.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I appreciate you guys having me.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna talk a little bit about kind of sales and the foundation of that.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um, why don't we like take a moment, you can kind of um explain like what got you into sales, uh, who you are and your role here at BoSharp.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so uh I my name is Ian McDougall, for those who don't know.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, I came into sales um from kind of the customer service inside at Bo Shark.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so a little bit of my background, um, I went to school for psychology.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had not planned to go into sales uh whatsoever, um, but I had uh a friend of mine um continuously push me into that direction.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I had the opportunity to work at Beauchart for a small amount of time, um, about a year, and an opportunity um kind of came up to possibly join the outside team.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I enjoyed the company culture so much.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I had heard lots of great things about the sales team that I decided that uh I think I would have been a fool uh to not take that opportunity.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So how long have you been in that role now?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I've been in outside sales since April.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um so just over six months, I think.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what would you say would be like the hardest thing transitioning from like the customer service role into an outside role and working with like a different team, traveling a little bit more?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and how did how would you find that transition?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think from a logistical standpoint, travel is definitely something that I've gotten used to.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's a lot different.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um stepping into a role where you are not only planning your own travel, uh, but you're uh away from your home, your family uh for days at a time.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so that was definitely an adjustment for myself.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was also an adjustment um in terms of how uh I was going about my workday.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's you know, a lot of what I do um is up to my discretion.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm not being handheld in this role, and uh it's not as straightforward as customer service can be.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and one of the hardest things is that sales, uh, although there can be customer service aspects, is not customer service.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so separating the two and and finding my place in that uh has been uh a challenge that I'm continuously overcoming.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And how did you like do you have any tricks of like how you got yourself into kind of your own style?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like every outside sales, um, like territory manager or anything like that probably has their own way of doing things.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: So how did you find your groove, like your way of handling that transition of you know, going into customers?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe how'd you prepare ahead of time, that kind of thing?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think the main thing for me uh was seeking out those who had already done it before me.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, those who have already walked this path.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Jonathan, who's been on the podcast before, um, who is my boss, uh, has been great at giving me, you know, tips and tricks of what he has done.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh I've also sought out people who have done the same previous role as myself, um, and people uh in different industries to see how they have kind of uh gone about, you know, preparing for meetings and scheduling.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: And Bochard does a really good job as well with their training of bringing books in and you know bringing outside voices.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I spent a bit of time kind of gathering all of that information.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and then I think for myself, uh the first one or two, you know, customer uh trips, like trips just going to meet customers, you know, you're learning.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um and there's nothing wrong with things uh going wrong.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's you know, I like to say that failure is the first step in success, right?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so making sure that I was learning from every single interaction.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I always note down, you know, what are some things that went well?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um and what could I do better?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, when I approach that person again, uh hope to continuously build on that first impression.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And people really appreciate that, right?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like they understand that you're new to a role and you're new to them.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so they appreciate that if a mistake or something was made, that the next time, you know, it was fixed or whatever.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're all human people understand that.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And people just appreciate that you understood that and you made the change for like the next time or whatever.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So is there something that you can look back on in your year of sales and kind of think, oh, I wish I would have known that earlier?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe something that you know now that you kind of wish, like, oh, I really wish I would have been able to like implement that a little earlier.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh it's it's mostly just the continuously being vulnerable with customers.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh something that I think that I've been continuously stepping into is uh, you know, being vulnerable and custom with customers where I'm at um and where they want me to be.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh, you know, sometimes in those first meetings your heart's pumping a little bit and you're uh you're really just trying to get through it.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you might have your list of questions there that you get through, but you're not really having a flowing conversation and you're not really being vulnerable.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: That uh, hey, you know, like I don't know much about you or your business.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um can you take me on a journey, you know, to kind of explore who you are and what your business is and and how I can best uh serve you.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of like doing a little bit of homework, right?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: But then also not trying to convince them that you know everything about them because you probably don't.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then what they need from you, because they need, you know, different things from everybody, right?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: So can you kind of walk us through like how you learned like we have a lot of product here and and the knowledge of that and just being able to uh talk to customers about that stuff?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Can you walk us through how you kind of learned all the stuff that there is to learn about it?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'll preface it.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know a percent amount of what all there is to learn.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and frankly, uh there is so much um that we have that there are few people that are uh knowledgeable in every facet.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um however, um yeah, coming from inside sales, I had a familiarity with the names of product at the very least.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that kind of got me comfortable with, okay, I know kind of what someone's talking about when they mention this.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: I might know what it looks like, I know what the product number is, I know its estimated value, right?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um however, um, one of the big things transitioning to sales is what is it used for, right?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what is its purpose and why do people want it?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's something that the accelerator videos that Bochart does uh are a great uh thing for learning the purpose of a product and also uh how to challenge people who maybe want something a little bit different or um that don't necessarily know what the product is.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so you're not necessarily learning all of the technical details, um, but that's not the most important part um in selling, uh especially uh in a lot of these products that you know we don't carry a lot of super technically uh complicated products.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I I've also gone on a journey myself just doing my own research on top of Accelerator and saying, oh, that's really interesting.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Can you know uh another website tell me a little bit more about that?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Or can someone who is knowledgeable on the product help me a little bit in this category?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like leaning on people that maybe know that one a little bit better than you or something like that.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, our educational platforms, like that's the goal, right?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah is that we're supplying them with the knowledge that is really hard for everybody to just absorb all the time, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, like we try to build that catalog of that you can go and you can learn so much from that.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really cool.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm gonna kind of shift gears a little bit to like, do you think that being like quote unquote new to sales, do you think that can actually be an advantage?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, I think that there can be advantages.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um specifically, I think you're coming in with a clean slate, right?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh what can sometimes happen in any industry, moving from company to company is you carry uh expectations.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: And what's really nice about stepping into this role um is that Beauchart uh can kind of mold me how they'd like.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and it gives me an opportunity as well to see what Beauchart is offering and what they're providing me and doing some self-reflection as well.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and essentially just getting to paint my own picture from the beginning.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that's kind of a beautiful process and something that I'm continuously still trying to do.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're always learning, everybody's always learning and growing, and you know, customers' needs are also changing.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so being able to adapt to that as well.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so then we kind of did talk about mistakes, but do you have any like tricks of like when you make a mistake that it doesn't affect your confidence too much?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have anything that you kind of make sure that it doesn't um that you put it in a part of your brain that it doesn't affect your confidence for the next time you talk to either the same customer or maybe a different customer?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I think it starts with mindset, right?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um so often we can get trapped in like a loophole just spiraling down um when something goes wrong, um, and that's all we begin to think about.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think what's really important um is two things that I do.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: The first is, you know, acknowledging that a mistake happened and uh creating ways to essentially avoid that mistake in the future.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And the second is is telling others about it.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um I find oftentimes uh, you know, if there's something that went wrong and maybe I'm struggling understanding where it went wrong, or um maybe there's a way that I feel like I could have gone done something better.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Chatting with coworkers or people even outside of the workplace can help me uh not only gain my confidence back, but give me a little bit more perspective on what I can do in the future.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's nice to know that you're not alone, right?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like so, if somebody can share a similar story and maybe a way that they got around it, you are able to take that and you know, maybe turn it into something that you can use and and move on.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's really cool.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, so uh sales identities.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of we had a sales uh retreat recently and we talked a little bit about identities.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was a really good process for everybody in sales to kind of hear about these different identities.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um, can you give me some examples um of those identities and maybe how you approach them in your career?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um, when meeting with a customer or maybe just preparing or anything like that, how do you use some of those?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: So to kind of preface, right, like there were seven identities that we discussed at this sales summit.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the idea being, right, that uh each identity um it makes us not just a good salesperson, but a great one, right?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that differentiates us.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so the main one that stuck out to me out of the seven uh is being a believer, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um when we talk about being a believer, it's not just a believer um in product, but it's a believer in uh a company.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: But what is that company made up of?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: It is people.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think something that's really important to me, uh, and one of the reasons I stayed uh with Beauchar and chose to kind of take this career path, um, is that I believe in the people that are here.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um I believe that they want to do a good job, um, that they want to grow, uh, and that they, although not everyone is going to agree with everyone at every time, because that's just doesn't happen.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah uh we all are working towards a common goal, right?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think the the main thing with belief uh for me uh is that belief creates purpose.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um belief creates a purpose of why I'm coming to work, why I'm selling what I'm selling, why I am creating the relationships that I'm creating.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and without uh with a false belief or without a true belief, sometimes um we can slip into kind of benign places where you know we're feel like we're just floating on this rock in space, not going anywhere.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, I don't know about you, but myself, I start to get uh really worried and sometimes uh you know anxious and and you know depressed even uh when I'm stuck in places like that, not just in work, but in re in life.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, as humans, we love to create something, right?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: And uh when we have a purpose to do that in the workplace, uh whether that is, you know, creating sales or creating product or uh helping customers and creating a wonderful culture from the inside and out, uh, that purpose brings life and brings joy to us.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so that that for me is the foundation uh when it comes to those identities.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh belief is one of those things that you can read on someone's face, right?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm trying to convince you of something, you know if I really truly believe in it, right?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or if I'm just feeding you something.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a feeling and that expresses through you, and people can read that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, do you have any advice for somebody that maybe, like you said, has a lack of belief or maybe has believed once, but something has kind of taken them down and and to bring back their belief.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any advice for for that?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have I have two things uh that I feel really strongly about.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um the first uh is communication.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh usually once communication goes, the rest follows.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um if you are are losing belief in something or someone, uh it's oftentimes because you know, doors have been shut or lines have been cut off, and we, you know, don't have uh belief anymore that the people or trust that the people uh that are doing their own thing are are doing the right thing.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that's the first thing is is open and honest communication.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oftentimes when we communicate, even if there's disagreements, we can understand where the other person is coming from.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: The second is I I truly believe uh that belief starts with yourself, right?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and oftentimes uh we get caught up uh trying to get other people to solve these problems for us, right?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: We work at a company uh that you know we feel the management isn't doing enough to help us believe, or that this specific department is, you know, letting us down and it's really killing my belief, or this specific person even is really just like making me not confident.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, that type of thinking uh I find is unhelpful.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um the first thing you should be doing is thinking about what you can control.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh do I believe in what I can control?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: And do I believe that I'm doing a good thing?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then as I kind of broaden out this and look at the whole spectrum, I can see, okay, here's things I have full control over, here's things that I have some control over, here's things that I might have mild influence over, and here's things that are out of my control.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: And there's things that are always going to be out of your control.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes those are deal breakers.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: But for the most part, you can look at those things that you have slight influence and then control over, and you can say, okay, you know, I believe in the direction that this is going, and I believe in myself that I can bring it there with this team, with this company, with these people.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And doing that uh kind of allows you to create belief, starting from yourself outwards.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's an interesting perspective too, of like even speaking with customers.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so sometimes you, I'm sure you've run into where you speak to a customer and they have the lack of belief.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: You might really feel it.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: But do you have any like tips for how convinced is maybe a strong word, but kind of really want to bring them into the mindset of believing, you know, trusting, you know, speaking with confidence and kind of getting them to also believe.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Without saying, like, you need to believe, you know, like is there ways that you can kind of do that?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this plays into another one of the identities we talked about, which is being an energizer, right?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh being an energizer is is uh essentially being able to create belief and traction and movement.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the thing that I think is so hard about that is that everyone does it a little bit differently, right?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Some people um, you know, just from the way they passionately speak from the front, can, you know, create belief in those who don't believe.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Other people can be exceptionally intentional one-on-one, and they just ask the perfect questions and they make you feel heard, and that's how they create belief.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Some people uh, you know, are so well educated in their field and their market that you know the moment they you talk to them, you're like, okay, I know this person knows what they they they know.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and that creates belief.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think for myself, um it's bringing in a little bit of each thing, right?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I I find um it I really work on being comfortable in speaking on product and knowing the market space, right?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because if I'm able to comfortably speak on that, that can create a pathway to belief, right?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: I try and um be intentional in conversation and make sure that I'm actively listening, listening to the person across from me because that can create belief.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I try to uh, you know, be energetic in my speech and in in my thought process because to some people that's the thing that really clicks with them and that creates belief.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes too, depending on who you're maybe speaking to or what situation you're in, you could maybe wear a different identity hat, right?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Too.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it's all about maybe adapting to the way a customer is responding.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: So do you have a way that you're kind of like, okay, I went into this thinking that I was really gonna be a believer and speak on that?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But then I had to shift it to maybe like a cultivator or an advisor or something like that.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And can you speak on kind of how you maybe make that shift or what triggers to you like a shift of that?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is something that when it comes to when I'm speaking mostly on potentially what I would consider like uh not necessarily a failed meeting, but failures in a meeting is is.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Not knowing where to start in that realm, right?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: When you walk in somewhere, um, it takes uh time and intentionality to really understand, okay, this is what this person really values.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so uh one idea uh that is not my own, I don't take credit for it, but that a coworker had mentioned is, you know, when you debrief your a meeting by yourself, you know, okay, what was this person's personality, right?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: What was their body language when I was speaking about this?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: How did they feel when I, you know, showed them numbers?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: How did they feel when uh I was speaking to them about vision?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, did they appreciate um and and take advantage of me asking them questions um and them really opening up?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and those are the things for me that you know you have to take note of it.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um I know we sometimes think we can remember it all.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and that, you know, next time we go in there, we're gonna just remember the last meeting.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: But when you write that down um and you can pen it, you know, you can put it somewhere that you're always gonna see it, you are being intentional with your customers.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um and although they might not know it, they'll feel the repercussions of that intentionality as your relationship continues to grow.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like they'll notice that, oh, he didn't really pick up on that.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like last time I was trying to tell him, like, I don't really want to talk about that, or that's not a direction.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And here we are doing that again.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: So then if you are making it intentional that you're going the route that you felt like the conversation was best going, then they're going to notice that.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they really know it or not, they will notice it.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So is there an identity that you feel like you could work on more that you want to bring more into uh when you speak to customers?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I think there's a couple.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh I'll I'll start with the challenger first.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so being a challenger is often uh a tough one for people to kind of understand.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what being a challenger means in a sales setting is respectfully calling people to think differently.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um and oftentimes what happens um on a psychological level is we create these comfort patterns, right?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we just do things uh out of comfort because our brain has to think less.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we can make a lot of decisions that maybe don't make sense, but we do them because we've done them a thousand times.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: And being a challenger uh means breaking that thought process and saying, hey, have you ever thought about doing it this way?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes people will say, Oh, yeah, that's interesting, but respectfully, I don't think that's the right idea.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes people will say, Oh, you know what?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've never thought about that.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, why don't we think about going that direction?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the one thing that often doesn't get spoke about being a challenger, and something that I really feel personally I need to rely on and work on, is you should be challenging yourself first.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you're not challenging yourself, what what you're doing, what you're becoming uh in that room, it in my opinion, is a hypocrite, right?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: You are trying to call people to break their thought patterns, to break the way that they're um doing things without really challenging what you're doing first.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you can totally go through a challenging process with yourself and come to the conclusion that I still you still feel that you are doing the best thing.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but without going through that process, you are uh calling customers um to do something that you haven't, you're leading them through something that you haven't gone through them yourself.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And there can just be a whole lot of hairy situations there.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're kind of you're challenging them, but you're you're not believing it yourself.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that goes back to like the believer and like all these identities, like they kind of mash together in a way.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um is is there a way that you can encourage other salespeople to um take some of these identities and like why you feel like this should be something salespeople implement in their lives?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: I I think uh to be totally honest, like these identities, um, although uh very helpful in sales, help uh help in all aspects of life.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, if you don't believe in your marriage, for example, or in your family um, or in the place you, you know, that you live, that it's a safe place, for example, uh, you can start to end up in these, you know, ruts, uh, similarly to sales.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and similarly with you know being a generator and and an energizer in your community, like how can you implement those things into a real life setting?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're so important.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and what's amazing about implementing it into sales is that essentially what we're calling you to do, what we're calling ourselves to do, is to be critical thinkers who are intentional in our actions, right?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's something that we don't necessarily uh critically think about these days is okay, why am I doing this?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh to whom am I serving in this situation?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, do I actually believe in what I'm doing?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if not, why am I still here?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and similarly to, you know, how can I be a better generator, a better energizer?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: How can I uh be a challenger in these situations?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing is, is is you're a fool to think that, okay, I've thought about it once, I've written this stuff down, yeah, and now I can go and do that, right?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the important part is being so intentional that every single time these conversations come up, you're like, okay, I need to be honest with myself.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: I know I need to know the why, right?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and sometimes you get to the end of that why, and you're like, okay, I don't necessarily know right now, but I got a little closer, and you know, we're gonna keep on going and on this journey of understanding.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: But it allows us to again have purpose in our roles.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and at the end of the day, right, uh uh something that stuck out to me that a very tenured salesperson who uh works alongside Beauchart, right?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: He said, one of the most important things in sales is your personality, right?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, do you have a warm, you know, smile?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: And do you just come in and kind of exude traits that people want to be around?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of the day, you know, some people might have certain things naturally, some people don't, but these identities help you get to a place where people want to be around you, right?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and people want to believe and people want to continue to pursue a partnership.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it's it's true that it's not a one and done, like you you sat through the sales course and you looked at all these identities, and oh, now I'm all seven.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and we learned that in our sales summit about that we want the conversation to continue later on.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: We want you to be in your car and start to think about ways that you could be these different identities.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, six months down the line, another way, because there's so many concepts within each one that you can always better yourself or you could always, you know, uh encourage other people to follow those kind of things.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody like in sales or a customer wants to grow in some of these identities, how do you think?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it just is simple as starting with themselves and teaching them?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or like, how do you think that they should start to take that way of growing in those identities?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think the starting point, similarly to what I mentioned earlier, is yourself.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now uh be starting with yourself is oftentimes being honest and saying, hey, I need to bring another person in the picture.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh I think oftentimes what happens is we say, Oh, I'd love to do this, right?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: We ask the question of ourself, but then nerves come up and we don't ask someone else to help us in this, or you know, life gets busy as it often does, and time flies, and we actually haven't worked on it.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so oftentimes that's why bringing people into the picture earlier can be helpful because they can keep you accountable in conversation, uh, keep you honest in your thinking.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's uh, you know, I think the best thing to do is ask yourself a question.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, do I think this will benefit me, right?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: In in in my personal life, in my work life, etc.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: And if it does, all right, what is my first step?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: What is the one thing that I have to do, right, to create momentum so that I will continuously work on this?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: And start there and just start step by step, right?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: When we start to think big picture, sometimes we can, you know, uh get so anxious and be like, oh my goodness, like for me to get to this point, I have to do a million things.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: But it actually starts with the first thing.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there is usually improvement on that first step.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that's where I'd say people should start, right?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Start in that first thing.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so as I'm gonna kind of shift out of this, but is there any concluding things you want to talk about for the sales identities, like last words or anything like that?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think uh one of the most important things, and we've talked about it on previous uh podcast episodes, is uh being an advisor.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and the one thing I wanted to note on being an advisor um is it it has to be genuine.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: I I think sometimes uh salespeople get written off as uh, you know, ungenuine people uh that are just trying to kind of pull you through the door and they're like, ha ha, I got ya.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think what Beauchart does and what we try and strive for with customer delight uh instead of customer satisfaction is we want to be genuine in our service and in our actions towards others.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and again, that goes back to critically reflecting.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Am I genuine in this?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Do I truly believe in what I'm bringing people into?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if you're not, I I would argue to ask, like I to ask yourself, um, you know, why are you doing it?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's good.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll just shift a little bit here of like, um, do you have anything that really surprised you about like human behavior when you started to not just pick up the phone and customer service, but actually go face to face and talk to customers?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that surprised you about uh how people reacted to you?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, body language, different ways that kind of like took you back, like, whoa, I that's not something I see on the phone, right?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: That you kind of maybe needed to take a step back, reflect on, and then and then move on to speak to another customer.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, so going back to kind of like my history with schooling, uh, the reason I went into psychology is because one of the things that interests is interests me most is human behavior.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, right.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think as opposed to a product that you can have in your hands, humans are more or less unpredictable, right?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: We can predict maybe 95% of what is going to happen, and yet sometimes people surprise us.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think what's really interesting about being in person as opposed to over the phone or over email, especially, um, is that people surprise you.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and oftentimes you can get caught off guard, yeah, right.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the tricky, but I I think beautiful things in sales is you're figuring out uh each individual, right?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's a puzzle that you're never really gonna solve.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, people make emotional decisions, people make um, you know, decisions that they think are logical, but aren't.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: And oftentimes we are left thinking, why did that person make that decision?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like and that person's thinking, why on earth like logically would I do that?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: And there's actually like maybe some world where you guys think of different benefits, right?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Someone could be based solely on price.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're thinking of ship time and you know, all of these other things.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you've both come to these decisions, but emotionally you actually resonate with a certain thing more.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a reason behind that.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think, yeah, it's it's about kind of the surprise uh that you have in those conversations, and how do you deal with that in a successful way that brings progress to your partnership?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you react to it in real time?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you notice about it that you can kind of shift then maybe the conversation of like, oh, I hit a nerve, or that's something they're really interested in, just based off of like maybe like an eye twitch or right?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can kind of pick up on those things.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were in school, did you think that sales would have such a strong psychology aspect of it?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or like, did that surprise you when you went into that?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it's interesting.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what I had wanted to do um once upon a time was go into uh IO psychology, which is which is industrial organizational psych.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh there's a huge aspect of that, that is what is the psychology in the business world?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I had known there's there's a couple of famous studies that have um come out of psychology when it comes to sales.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh there's a couple of famous psychologists on the sales side of things, um, but I had also never really thought that it would be as applicable as it is, right?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's surprising, uh, which it shouldn't be, but it's surprising how much human behavior has to play in all of these processes, right?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's a continuous journey on how can I use my history to uh, you know, give myself an advantage uh in this field.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it goes back to the the believer when we talked about that of like it Bauchart is the company, it's the people within Bauchart, right?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same with your customers.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're speaking to a human being.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're not speaking to the customer and the company, you're talking to the people.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: And each person that you're talking to there has a different way that they communicate or or what they want to talk about and what they um feel is important, right?
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and that goes back to like our identities of sometimes you do have to switch among them depending on how you're how you're doing that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um moving on to maybe like a little bit of philosophy.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a sales philosophy that you uh work through yourself or or maybe some that was like passed down to you or what you would pass down to somebody else?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'll start off with saying um what I've been saying the whole time.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: My background is in sales.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of uh physical sales philosophies that are named, uh, that are strategies that people implement.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh although it's a continuous journey and something that I'm I'm I'm learning, uh this it's kind of a simple philosophy that I have, um, and it's more personal.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the philosophy is do I believe in what I'm doing?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I've had this um in my personal life for a long time before Beauchar.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh everything I do, um I seek the purpose in, right?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I in this place?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: Why uh am I putting myself in this situation?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Do I believe in this thing, right?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I try and use critical thinking um to essentially uh make sure that myself first uh is doing the right thing for me.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and then step two is okay, I believe in this thing.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get you to believe in it?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: And from a sales perspective, and and something Beauchark does really well is bringing people into that picture.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get you to believe in us?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because I believe in us.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that requires a little bit more critical thought, but also from an from a sales perspective, you are the front facing, right?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: You are oftentimes the image, right?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Marketing does a great job of inputting uh, you know, a culture into the world.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: But if a salesperson walks to your door and they are not what they have been told you are, well, you're gonna have some issues.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have some lack of trust.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so, as a salesperson, you should be the ultimate advocate and the believer for your company.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, I think that that is that is my philosophy, and and that's something that I I continuously ask myself regularly.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that it's important for every sales uh person to have a philosophy?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like if somebody is sitting in their car right now and they don't have a core reason for why they're doing something, do you encourage them to do it?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think similarly to what I was saying at the beginning, kind of going back, uh I really do think that philosophy and belief create purpose, right?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: And philosophy comes from uh, you know, a belief in something, right?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: The reason we have uh different philosophies in the sales industry is because one person came along and they believed that a certain way of doing things was the best way, right?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: And and now uh oftentimes we are naive and myself included in thinking that one particular way is the best way.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: But it's so important to kind of think about these things because it creates purpose.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it creates purpose, and philosophy um is something that you know you can share with others, you can create movements, you can create cultures, you can create uh companies uh that exude this, and there's companies that have done amazing jobs at this.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh there's movements and there's people that have done amazing jobs at implementing this.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and those people and those companies have gone on to do great things, and it starts there.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes back to like the challenger that you talked about, right?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like just because this is the way that it has to be done, maybe you can challenge a new way.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and the world is always changing, right?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: We have new technologies.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, Google, you can just Google anything, and and Chat GPT AI has really changed the shift in how you can look for knowledge and different things like that.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that can play an interesting part in that this was one way we did it.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's not necessarily with the tools we have the right way to maybe do it now.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you have any like habits or routines or anything that really helped you start out that you kind of do?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe you used to do them, you don't need more, or maybe you wish you did it at the beginning and you do it now, or maybe something that's stuck with you over these six months of transitioning.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think the the basic one uh that I try and do is is be a continuous student.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I am always uh trying to learn more, whether that is uh yeah, utilizing AI um and allowing it to challenge me on certain things, or whether that is reading a new book that provides deeper insight, or whether that's uh listening to podcasts that stretch me, right?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh that is kind of the primary thing that I think if we all continuously try to keep learning, we will eventually get to a better spot than we are now.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the second thing is.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: It is for me especially is scheduling and just making sure that uh my day is well organized.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Some people can uh go in with a blank calendar and be productive and you know do great things, but that is not me.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so that is something that I continuously have to challenge myself on is how do I schedule all of these important things?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say there is a, you know, a first thing that I want to do to become a believer.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let me actually put that in my calendar so that when that time comes around, I am being intentional in in thinking about those things.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Or uh when it comes to uh, you know, admin work.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let me be intentional about that because I'm gonna put it off if I'm not right.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so those are the two things that for me uh really make the the big difference.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like making sure you schedule time for all those little things because those are very easily those things that like I can do it tomorrow, or like you focus on the big things.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any like tips on if your schedule doesn't go exactly as planned?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, life happens, things happen, maybe somebody approaches you with something else.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something that you can provide of like how you keep on track and don't feel like I didn't do anything today, or I didn't get what I wanted originally wanted done?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think this goes back to earlier when we talk about like failure, right?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oftentimes when we don't get something done, uh, we say, rats, man, like I didn't get this done, and then we leave it.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what's so important is uh looking at that thing and saying, Oh, I didn't get that done, but it still has value and importance to me.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: Let me do it right now and schedule another time to do this.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: And again, there's things that have different priority levels and maybe it keeps getting pushed back and pushed back.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: But the objective with being intentional about uh doing things in the moment when you think about them and scheduling time and being intentional about that is important, right?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um because if you say, man, I didn't get that done, that sucks.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: A year could go by and you could say, Hey, I had this awesome idea once and it just never came to light, right?
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't just, oh, too bad.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: I guess like that's never going to become a thing, right?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think it's important that, you know, we have to know that life does happen.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Things, things happen, and we have to be ready for that to happen and prepared so that it doesn't strike us as, oh, I'm so frustrated that I didn't get to do this thing.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: You can maybe think about, oh, shift it to, well, I helped somebody come to a conclusion on something else, or I actually put into work into something else that was also important.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: But then not minimizing how important this thing is also.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right about intentionally moving it to just another day, you know, and making sure that that becomes part of you making the schedule.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: So as we slowly wrap up here, um, is there anything else, like one piece of advice or anything you would say to somebody starting out in sales right now that you would love for them to explore or try on their own or um or anything like that?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think the biggest thing for anyone starting out in sales or any new career um is being bold, brave, and courageous.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think uh so oftentimes uh in the world we live in, especially uh over here in Canada, um, we love being comfortable, right?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we live our lives with the goal of being comfortable.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but oftentimes success stems from discomfort.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: When we put ourselves in those situations that we aren't really sure about, um, but we go in anyways, we're bold and brave, and we see success.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and that can look like if you're nervous for public speaking, uh, taking that opportunity and going one step at a time and saying, okay, you know, that went well.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually saw success and benefit from that.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: Let me step into that more.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whether that's a tough conversation with someone, right?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oftentimes we can get so wrapped up in the what-ifs, you know, what could happen.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: But when we just take that first step and we're bold and courageous, even if things don't go as exactly as planned, we get somewhere, right?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're not stagnant.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: When you push yourself into discomfort, you are constantly pushing for more.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that is the thing for me that is the most important for anyone, especially uh in the younger generations, you know, when we've got all these comfort, comfortable things right on our phone, for example, right?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's nice to be able to zone out and watch, you know, TikTok or Instagram reels for for however long, but at the end of the day, you did nothing.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any tips then for somebody who is trying to take that first step at pushing how comfortable they are or like stepping out of their comfort zone, like um, you know, nerves, like we we all feel those types of things.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a way that you maybe something you speak to yourself or you do before you're putting yourself into those situations that maybe somebody else could benefit from?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there's uh a lot of different things you can do.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think for myself, it is bringing other people into that situation, right?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I know we were chat chatting before this podcast about how even just having another person sitting across from you on a microphone can make you feel more comfortable.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: And oftentimes, right, as humans, like we are sociable creatures.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: We want uh, you know, to be around others.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: And when we are around others, we do things um that we might not have done before, right?
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and sometimes that can play to a detriment, but we don't talk about that.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: We talk about how it's used for good.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so the first thing that I usually do if if um you know something is coming up that I'm uncomfortable about, it's like, hey, you know, my good friend Jonathan, you know, I am not really feeling the best about this.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any tips and tricks?
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, can you walk alongside me in this?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: Can you hold me accountable that like I actually follow through?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then the second thing that I think uh is important is practice, right?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: The more you do something uncomfortable, the more you are comfortable.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, it's not necessarily that you won't be nervous and you won't be anxious, um, because those are natural emotions that always occur, but you can hold yourself um to essentially a higher standard where you're like, okay, yeah, I've done a lot of hard things, and this is just one more.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so those are the two things for myself that I think you gotta start there, right?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: You always have to be bringing someone else into the picture, and you always need to be practicing, whether that is practicing by yourself or practicing doing the task or the thing regularly.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's important of like the first step is definitely the hardest.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like we had a conversation here where I said, oh, the intro is like the hardest part of the podcast.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like just getting started is definitely the hardest.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you like start to get into it, it feels a lot more comfortable.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next time it's even more comfortable.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think sometimes you kind of have to rip off the bandage in a way.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: Just do the first step.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if you make mistakes, know that, well, it was my first time doing a thing.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Anything we ever do as humans, are we perfect at it the first time we do it?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely not.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's some people that are, but I definitely know I'm not.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, you know, my kids learning how to skate, it takes several times.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: But what is he doing?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's going out and trying it for the first time.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and so that's the biggest key is you can be nervous about it, but just doing it is in the right direction, right?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, that's a really good point.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um, is there anything else that you kind of want to summarize or talk about one more time before we kind of wrap up here?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think to note um just as like a final thought to resonate um and to kind of sum it all up is is going back to failure is okay.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned your kid learning how to skate.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: Something I love about kids is that they can fail over and over again, but they have that parent to come and come alongside them and say, Hey, it's okay, you know, time to get back up and do it again.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: And oftentimes when we get older, we lose that.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: And what sucks is instead of going out and seeking that in a mentor or in a friend, we just stop doing it.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we get afraid uh before we even step into something.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so failure is not an enemy, uh, it is a friend.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, it's not that we want to live in failure, that's not our goal.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you know, it starts with being comfortable with that, right?
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and being comfortable in the sense of, okay, you know, I know that even if I fail, I'm still going home to a loving family.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: Or I still have Joe my friend, you know, yeah, or I still have my dog, right?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like the world's not gonna end, the world's not gonna stop.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so often we feel like it is, and I know it's a lot easier said than done.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: But that is that's the one thing I'd love to sum it up on.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Failure is okay.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and like like you said with kids, like the one thing he would always say is, Oh, I fell down.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say, but did you get back up?
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that was becoming the most important thing is that he would come off the ice and say, I fell down, but I got back up.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then it becomes more of that thing.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: So just to feel like, you know, you can get back up, you go home, you know, you shake that kind of off, and then you start a new day.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a really great way to finish it, Ian.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you joining us today on the podcast.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I hope you all have the rest, a great rest of your day.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: Whoop, whoop, whoop.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: All right, that was our podcast with Ian McDougal.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: I want to send a sincere thank you to him for joining us.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was a great episode.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed it.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to check out other episodes, we have tons.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're all excellent.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: So be sure to check those out.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you in the next one.