Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: The New Jersey Mansion Murders - Part 2

Transcript

Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: The New Jersey Mansion Murders - Part 2 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Blow winds and crack your cheeks, rage,
0:10
Speaker 1: blow you cataracts, hurricanoes, spout till you have drenched our steeples,
0:18
Speaker 1: drowned the cocks. You'll so fur us and thought executing fires.
0:26
Speaker 1: That's actually from Act three, Scene two of King Lear.
0:33
Speaker 1: This is part two of the New Jersey Mansion Murders.
0:38
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Bags. In
0:44
Speaker 1: the first episode with the Mansion murders, we kind of
0:50
Speaker 1: laid the groundwork, didn't we day for this unbelievable familial
0:56
Speaker 1: tragedy that has occurred. And it would seem, just as
1:02
Speaker 1: in the case of King Lear, that there were storms
1:08
Speaker 1: all about that you can curse the storms as much
1:12
Speaker 1: as you want, but they're still going to come. And
1:15
Speaker 1: in this case it has ravaged this family and this community.
1:20
Speaker 1: We're talking about four innocent people executed by shooting, by stabbing,
1:30
Speaker 1: and then to make matters even worse, burned. It's really
1:37
Speaker 1: hard to take the measure of it, isn't it, Dave.
1:42
Speaker 2: That it is and Joe in this case where we
1:48
Speaker 2: are dealing with a family being destroyed, and I mean
1:53
Speaker 2: that in the general sense of the entire Canaro family.
1:59
Speaker 2: And we're going Biblical on this. This is Book of
2:04
Speaker 2: Genesis stuff, brother killing brother over you know, yeah, yeah,
2:08
Speaker 2: And that's what we have. We have the older brother
2:10
Speaker 2: accused of killing the younger brother, and it comes down
2:13
Speaker 2: to brains and money. Jealous of brains and a disagreement
2:19
Speaker 2: about money. I've been here since the beginning. I deserve
2:21
Speaker 2: the same thing you do, and that's just not the case.
2:24
Speaker 2: It happens in a lot of businesses, but it's not
2:26
Speaker 2: the case. And they saw things differently. Keith was at
2:31
Speaker 2: the point where he had decided that since his brother
2:34
Speaker 2: Paul was spending too much money on things he didn't
2:38
Speaker 2: that Keith did not believe need to be spent, he
2:41
Speaker 2: was going to cut Paul's salary. I mentioned this in
2:45
Speaker 2: the first episode. They were equal partners in one business,
2:48
Speaker 2: but not in Square one, the tech business that was
2:51
Speaker 2: the business that had a big future. Paul was not
2:55
Speaker 2: a profit sharing participant in that. He wildly made it ben,
2:58
Speaker 2: but he was not an equal partner. Be clear on that.
3:01
Speaker 2: It was an employee and as his boss, Heath was
3:05
Speaker 2: getting ready to cut his salary. A little demotion. You
3:09
Speaker 2: can tell by how they lived. That there was a
3:11
Speaker 2: big discrepancy in finance.
3:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was. However, I have to say quartermill per
3:18
Speaker 1: year is nothing to sneeze at.
3:20
Speaker 2: No, it's not.
3:21
Speaker 1: And you know, I I don't know. I guess I'm
3:26
Speaker 1: very theatrial today. I'm thinking about it. There there's that
3:30
Speaker 1: that that scene you know from Wall Street where Charlie
3:36
Speaker 1: Sheen's character is asking Michael Douglas's character, you know, how
3:39
Speaker 1: many yachts can you ski behind? And I don't know,
3:44
Speaker 1: you know, but look, success is success, and it's earned
3:49
Speaker 1: most of the time through hard work, and it it
3:54
Speaker 1: creates an underlying jealousy. And look, we've known this ages,
4:00
Speaker 1: right and you go back to canaan Abel. You know,
4:03
Speaker 1: it's about jealousy, it's about envy, you know, those sorts
4:07
Speaker 1: of things. But my Lord, to come to the point
4:12
Speaker 1: where you've decided to execute a man in his front yard,
4:21
Speaker 1: and I think it's rather emblematic of jealousy, because again,
4:25
Speaker 1: this is all allegedly occurring at the hands of one
4:29
Speaker 1: brother has not gone to trial yet. But to execute
4:34
Speaker 1: a man in the front yard of this what has
4:37
Speaker 1: been called a mansion, a mansion by New Jersey standards,
4:42
Speaker 1: and then to go into a home wielding a pistol
4:48
Speaker 1: and executing a wife, shooting her and then stabbing her
4:55
Speaker 1: as if the shooting wasn't enough, and then go into
4:58
Speaker 1: the bedroom of these because Dave, they they are children. Reminder,
5:02
Speaker 1: they're eight and eleven, their little kids. You go in
5:06
Speaker 1: and and you know, you hope that they didn't wake
5:10
Speaker 1: up to see the man that they had spent Thanksgiving
5:15
Speaker 1: with and you know, Christmas, and you know, maybe had
5:18
Speaker 1: gone on vacation with him. Can you imagine that his
5:22
Speaker 1: face illuminated there, you know, in that in that moment,
5:26
Speaker 1: and he's willeding a knife and repeatedly stabbing them. I
5:31
Speaker 1: don't know, it's uh, you know, I use the term
5:33
Speaker 1: it's hard to take the measure of, but it truly is.
5:36
Speaker 1: And when it comes down to it, it's it's just
5:38
Speaker 1: absolute pure evil, Dave.
5:41
Speaker 2: When the details of this case came out, I was
5:48
Speaker 2: looking at the murder of Keith Canero on his front
5:52
Speaker 2: yard and I wondered how everything took place. I'm thinking
5:59
Speaker 2: he was probably the first victim. Because Paul Canaro is
6:06
Speaker 2: accused of going into the home and killing Jennifer, the
6:10
Speaker 2: wife and mother, and the two children differently than he
6:13
Speaker 2: killed allegedly killed Keith. So did he run out of bullets?
6:17
Speaker 2: I mean from the shrime scene, what do you see?
6:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's what I'm thinking here. And you know,
6:24
Speaker 1: you got to think dad's the gatekeeper here, right, because
6:27
Speaker 1: if he sees someone in his yard, maybe maybe there
6:32
Speaker 1: was a phone call preceding this, Maybe there was a.
6:36
Speaker 2: Knock at the door early morning five A.
6:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe maybe it's known that this man is
6:43
Speaker 1: an early riser. He gets up, he's having this cup
6:46
Speaker 1: of coffee, arrest of the families inside the house. It
6:51
Speaker 1: would have to be someone that would be familiar, you know,
6:54
Speaker 1: with the environment with this dwelling, certainly, And how do
6:58
Speaker 1: you draw them out of the house? Do you do
7:01
Speaker 1: you have a key to the house? Did you force
7:03
Speaker 1: the entry into the house? Uh? Did you take this
7:07
Speaker 1: man at gunpoint? Take him into the front and Dave,
7:11
Speaker 1: this is the front yard? Think about that, the front yard.
7:15
Speaker 1: You're going to execute somebody in their front yard. This
7:18
Speaker 1: is not like you've done it in cover. Okay, you
7:22
Speaker 1: know you haven't marched somebody out into the woods and
7:27
Speaker 1: uh pumped rounds into them and left their body. I
7:30
Speaker 1: mean how many cases have we have we covered that
7:33
Speaker 1: involved concealment of a homicide and not just the body
7:37
Speaker 1: but actually the act. You know, you know, you think
7:41
Speaker 1: about this when this dynamic of of having someone in
7:46
Speaker 1: their front yard and then unloading a weapon into their body,
7:53
Speaker 1: and that has that has drawn me into this idea.
7:56
Speaker 1: Did the individual run out of of live rounds at
8:02
Speaker 1: this point in time or were they down to one?
8:06
Speaker 1: And then you come armed also with a knife that
8:10
Speaker 1: is sufficient to the task. And what I mean by
8:12
Speaker 1: that it's not you're not talking about a steak knife,
8:16
Speaker 1: because now you're utilizing a knife in order to facilitate
8:21
Speaker 1: not the death of just one person, but an additional
8:24
Speaker 1: two though they are children. You need something that's going
8:28
Speaker 1: to be robust enough, that will that will withstand this
8:33
Speaker 1: vigorous utilization of it where you're you're constantly, you know,
8:38
Speaker 1: just stabbing over and over and over again. It has
8:41
Speaker 1: to be robust enough to maintain that. So, yeah, I
8:47
Speaker 1: think that what's so eye catching about about the mansion
8:53
Speaker 1: murder is the fact that you've got husband, father laying
9:00
Speaker 1: dead in the front yard, don't I don't recall us
9:06
Speaker 1: ever covering a case like this where it's it's almost like,
9:11
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's done in plain view, if you will. Now,
9:16
Speaker 1: granted we have to go back to what we talked
9:18
Speaker 1: about in the first episode. This mansion is very isolated.
9:23
Speaker 1: I say isolated. It's not encumbered by you know, you're
9:27
Speaker 1: not talking about where you've got a division of two
9:30
Speaker 1: to three feet between holmes. You know how they'll go
9:33
Speaker 1: into a subdivision, they'll build homes this way, And it's
9:37
Speaker 1: not like this. This is on a substantial plot of
9:40
Speaker 1: land up there, David.
9:42
Speaker 2: And happening early in the morning. And again, Joe, I'm
9:47
Speaker 2: I'm really befuddled by what took place because it is
9:52
Speaker 2: so close. You're talking about brothers here, and you're talking
9:54
Speaker 2: about niece's nephews, sister in law. You're talking about the
9:58
Speaker 2: things that make life life. And Paul Canaro is allegedly
10:04
Speaker 2: the guy that ended an entire family's life. Now front yard,
10:09
Speaker 2: Keith Canaro is shot once in a lower back and
10:13
Speaker 2: four times in the head. You got five bullets there,
10:17
Speaker 2: assuming you didn't miss. No, I don't know how many
10:20
Speaker 2: shots he fired, but you did mention you know they
10:23
Speaker 2: are It's not like it's out in the middle of nowhere,
10:25
Speaker 2: but it is isolated enough that gunshots at that time
10:29
Speaker 2: of the day might not wake the neighbors because they're
10:32
Speaker 2: a little bit further away than needed. But we've got
10:35
Speaker 2: him dead on the front yard. You arrive. You mentioned
10:38
Speaker 2: this in the previous show about when the firemen get there.
10:42
Speaker 2: It's twelve thirty in the day. Okay, this began at
10:45
Speaker 2: five am, before sun up, but nobody knows about it
10:50
Speaker 2: until twelve thirty in the day when a next door
10:52
Speaker 2: neighbor calls the fire department. So how did the murder
10:59
Speaker 2: And let's just art with Keith Canara, How did his
11:02
Speaker 2: murder occur in the front yard, assuming that he was
11:07
Speaker 2: the first one killed, And that's probably not even a
11:10
Speaker 2: good assumption, is it.
11:12
Speaker 1: No, And it's hard to it's hard to put and
11:14
Speaker 1: again with with whether it's stabbing or shooting. All right,
11:20
Speaker 1: it's very difficult to sequence cases. And I think that
11:25
Speaker 1: many times jurors come in to a trial and they
11:30
Speaker 1: expect the forensic pathologists to sit on the stand and
11:32
Speaker 1: be able to say, Okay, this is the order that
11:34
Speaker 1: the injuries took place in. There are those cases where
11:37
Speaker 1: that can be accomplished. However, in a case like this.
11:41
Speaker 1: The big question is, well, I'm very interested in this
11:47
Speaker 1: gsw to the back. Was there any hemorrhage in that wound?
11:51
Speaker 1: Like let's just say, for instance, this dynamic where you
11:57
Speaker 1: actually have you actually have have Keith turning his back
12:05
Speaker 1: on the perpetrator and to walk away, and this is
12:09
Speaker 1: just one scenario, and the perpetrator fires center mass into
12:14
Speaker 1: his back and knocks him down. Okay, Well, at autopsy,
12:19
Speaker 1: one of the things that that we would do, and
12:21
Speaker 1: this has not been revealed yet, is that at autopsy
12:26
Speaker 1: you would check that wound to see if there's hemorrhage
12:29
Speaker 1: in there, because even in a perry mortem state where
12:32
Speaker 1: the individual is in the midst of dying as opposed
12:35
Speaker 1: you know, I've talked about this before in between you know,
12:37
Speaker 1: we've talked about anti mortem and perry mortim and post mortem.
12:41
Speaker 1: So you've got this gunshot went to the back. Was
12:46
Speaker 1: this used to knock him down to get him under control?
12:49
Speaker 1: And then you approach him, you get closer and Dave,
12:55
Speaker 1: you know, now, granted I've got a rather large melon
13:00
Speaker 1: and on top of my shoulders, but heads are not
13:02
Speaker 1: something that are to score headshot on anybody from a
13:07
Speaker 1: firearm's perspective is indeed quite the feet and particularly with
13:13
Speaker 1: a handgun. Okay, handguns are not noted for great accuracy
13:19
Speaker 1: at distance, So you have to think about the relationship
13:24
Speaker 1: between the end of that muzzle and where these bullet
13:28
Speaker 1: defects or projectile defects are in the head. So after
13:32
Speaker 1: he's on the ground, maybe shot in the back. We
13:35
Speaker 1: don't know this. I'm just kind of throwing this out there.
13:38
Speaker 1: Then you approach him and you pump the rest of
13:41
Speaker 1: these rounds in to his head. Are they through and through?
13:47
Speaker 1: Which means do you have you know, around that inner say,
13:50
Speaker 1: in the back of the head and exits out at
13:52
Speaker 1: the front. Are all these rounds still contained within the head?
13:57
Speaker 1: And when they say head, it doesn't necessarily mean like
14:00
Speaker 1: the cranial vault, because if they say head, it can
14:03
Speaker 1: mean face, it can mean jaw, it can be something
14:07
Speaker 1: that is just kind of a gray's wound that you
14:12
Speaker 1: have maybe that runs along one aspect of the neck,
14:14
Speaker 1: that is a separate gunshot wound from everything else. This
14:19
Speaker 1: is another thing I've talked about through and through. You know,
14:23
Speaker 1: many times when you fire into well most of the
14:26
Speaker 1: time when you fire into a skull. There is going
14:30
Speaker 1: to take place a fracturing of the plates of the skull,
14:36
Speaker 1: so that compromises the structural integrity. So maybe you will
14:41
Speaker 1: fire into a skull a single time and that first
14:44
Speaker 1: round will not exit the skull. But once that structural
14:48
Speaker 1: integrity of the skull is compromised, and you've got these
14:51
Speaker 1: kind of little they look like for those that have
14:55
Speaker 1: never seen it, they'll kind of if you take a
14:57
Speaker 1: hard boled egg and you dropped it on the surface
15:00
Speaker 1: and look at how the shell will fracture. You get
15:04
Speaker 1: these multiple floating areas in there. Well, that's the integrity
15:08
Speaker 1: of the egg being compromised. So you can fire into
15:12
Speaker 1: a skull that's already fractured. Now, whereas you may have
15:17
Speaker 1: been able to contain the first shot, those subsequent shots
15:21
Speaker 1: might pass through and through, so you might have wherever
15:25
Speaker 1: he is laying, you might have these projectiles that have
15:29
Speaker 1: passed through the skull. They've had to go in and
15:31
Speaker 1: excavate these, you know, from beneath the body, and that
15:35
Speaker 1: would be something that would be quite quite critical in
15:41
Speaker 1: a case like this, because you're trying to tie back
15:45
Speaker 1: those projectiles to the same weapon. Okay, or you know,
15:49
Speaker 1: if you're thinking that maybe you've got multiple shooters, well,
15:51
Speaker 1: why would multiple shooters shoot a guy multiple times in
15:55
Speaker 1: the head. This is not Hollywood. And why is it
15:58
Speaker 1: that anyone would shoot some more than one time in
16:01
Speaker 1: the head, Because if you have an understanding of firearms,
16:06
Speaker 1: then you would understand that it's probably only to take
16:12
Speaker 1: one right, particularly if he's already shot in the back.
16:16
Speaker 1: What's the need for And of course, with that idea
16:20
Speaker 1: in mind, Dave, this goes to overkill, and overkill always
16:23
Speaker 1: goes to passion, doesn't. So Keith is lying on the
16:40
Speaker 1: front lawn, multiple gunshot wounds. I think that anybody that
16:48
Speaker 1: has the least bit of perception on their part can
16:51
Speaker 1: tell that Keith is not getting up from this. That
16:57
Speaker 1: line of the home, if you will, that in visual
17:00
Speaker 1: that would provide safety, that would protect his family is down. Now.
17:07
Speaker 1: Any perpetrator that wanted to could go into the home
17:12
Speaker 1: and they're going to be face to face with Keith's wife. Well,
17:15
Speaker 1: did Keith's wife hear anything, did she alert to it,
17:19
Speaker 1: or did the perpetrator seek her out in a specific
17:23
Speaker 1: location within the home and then attack her. Well, we
17:28
Speaker 1: know that she has sustained at least one gunshot wound
17:32
Speaker 1: to her body and multiple stab wounds. Once you've eliminated
17:38
Speaker 1: the adults, the children are easy prey. But you run
17:43
Speaker 1: the risk by discharging a firearm in that house to
17:46
Speaker 1: alert everyone in there? What happened with the kids? Did
17:51
Speaker 1: the kids know that a weapon had been fired from
17:54
Speaker 1: within the house? Did they wake up? Now? Just because
17:57
Speaker 1: the neighbors didn't hear this day doesn't mean that the
18:00
Speaker 1: people inside the house, and I'm talking about Keith's family,
18:05
Speaker 1: his wife and those precious children, I'm you know, did
18:08
Speaker 1: they hear the report of the firearm over and over
18:13
Speaker 1: and over again outside? Did they hear? And I say they,
18:18
Speaker 1: I mean the children. Did they hear their mother being
18:20
Speaker 1: shot inside of the house? Did they alert to this?
18:24
Speaker 1: Or is this house, this structure so vast, it's so large,
18:29
Speaker 1: that they're positioned in a place where they might not
18:32
Speaker 1: hear it. I think these are all salient questions.
18:36
Speaker 2: Day and powerful when you actually look at the dynamic here.
18:40
Speaker 2: Assuming that we have Keith Canaro dead on the front yard,
18:45
Speaker 2: and then going in you have his wife, Jennifer forty
18:48
Speaker 2: five years old. She's mother. She's not going to let
18:51
Speaker 2: you know what talking about the dad being there to stop,
18:54
Speaker 2: you know, protecting all that. Well, hey, when dad's not there,
18:56
Speaker 2: it's mom, Yeah, mama bear, Yeah, she's going to protect
18:59
Speaker 2: the babies. And so she is shot once and then
19:04
Speaker 2: knifed not knowing. Because it hasn't gone a trial yet,
19:09
Speaker 2: we don't have all of the information, but we do
19:13
Speaker 2: know that Jennifer Canaro was shot and stabbed multiple times.
19:19
Speaker 2: We know that the children were not shot, they were
19:22
Speaker 2: only stabbed, which is an up close and personal murder.
19:26
Speaker 2: Talk to you about this on the phone as I
19:28
Speaker 2: was prepping this, because I was trying to get my
19:30
Speaker 2: head wrapped around all of this that when we talk
19:34
Speaker 2: about a gunshot wound that can be cold, doesn't have
19:38
Speaker 2: to be up close and personal, but when you talk
19:41
Speaker 2: about strangulation or stabbing, you've got to be right there
19:46
Speaker 2: on the person. And so I was thinking, perhaps maybe
19:52
Speaker 2: the alleged shooter killer only had one round left in
19:56
Speaker 2: the gun and he used that on Jennifer and that
20:00
Speaker 2: immobilized her enough so that he could finish the job
20:03
Speaker 2: with the knife. And then he takes on the children
20:05
Speaker 2: who are only eight and eleven, assuming a lot because
20:09
Speaker 2: we don't know, But here's my bigger question, Joe. We
20:12
Speaker 2: know that a fire in this house began early in
20:16
Speaker 2: the morning. We know that it wasn't reported until the
20:21
Speaker 2: next door neighbors, as you mentioned a little ways away,
20:24
Speaker 2: they saw smoke earlier in the day and assume they
20:27
Speaker 2: were just hey, got a fire in the fireplace, asked smoke.
20:30
Speaker 2: But when that smoke continued and got bigger and got bigger,
20:32
Speaker 2: that's when they called police and fire and said, hey,
20:35
Speaker 2: we got a fire next door, you know, come on.
20:37
Speaker 2: And so now that we have looked at this, the
20:40
Speaker 2: fire crews show up on the scene. They find Keith
20:43
Speaker 2: Canaro on the front yard debt. You mentioned in our
20:48
Speaker 2: last episode that once they are positive he is gone,
20:53
Speaker 2: they no life saving measures can be taken. They basically
20:56
Speaker 2: cover the body and move onto the house to see
20:59
Speaker 2: what else they've gone in there.
21:00
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, they would, and they'll they will freeze.
21:07
Speaker 1: They will freeze the processing of the crime scene. Okay,
21:11
Speaker 1: until that moment. And here's something.
21:13
Speaker 2: That when you say freeze the crime scene.
21:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you pointed out that's really inaccurate. They
21:23
Speaker 1: will forego processing the crime scene at that moment. Tom.
21:27
Speaker 1: It's just like if you come across. If you come
21:31
Speaker 1: across somebody that is bled out somewhere, maybe they're in
21:39
Speaker 1: one area of the house, well, you're you have to
21:43
Speaker 1: go through the rest of the house in order to
21:46
Speaker 1: assess if there is someone that is still there, they've
21:49
Speaker 1: been injured and perhaps you can save them. But at
21:54
Speaker 1: an even higher level here, we're not talking about that.
21:57
Speaker 1: We're actually talking about a fully involved fire at this point,
22:01
Speaker 1: where you have to knock this thing down. So the
22:06
Speaker 1: fact that he has deceased, that Keith is deceased on
22:10
Speaker 1: his front lawn is trumped by the necessity of knocking
22:16
Speaker 1: down this fire because you don't know. I mean, keep
22:19
Speaker 1: in mind, Dave this thing and trust me, firefighters structurally,
22:24
Speaker 1: they are aware of what they've got on their hands here.
22:26
Speaker 1: This house is a tinder box, okay, of all the
22:30
Speaker 1: household items, everything, and they know that this thing can
22:34
Speaker 1: get out of hand really quick. And most of the time,
22:36
Speaker 1: you know, November when this case happened, November is a
22:40
Speaker 1: very dry month over pretty much most of the US.
22:46
Speaker 1: It's not like springtime where you've got storms that are
22:48
Speaker 1: rolling through and supersaturated ground and all this stuff. You've
22:51
Speaker 1: got dry leaves about. There's tender everywhere, and not to
22:56
Speaker 1: mention everything. If you've got this neighborhood that's adjacent to
22:59
Speaker 1: wood area. If they don't get the scene knocked down,
23:02
Speaker 1: the sink can spread, and so they're thinking about all
23:05
Speaker 1: of the rest of the area, you know, to try
23:08
Speaker 1: to keep it contained as best they can, and then
23:11
Speaker 1: they will return or the scene will be turned over
23:15
Speaker 1: two investigators following getting this thing knocked down and secured
23:21
Speaker 1: to the point, and they'll have to go through the
23:23
Speaker 1: home to see if you know, maybe a kid crawled
23:26
Speaker 1: inside of a closet and just by the grace of God,
23:31
Speaker 1: they have survived this inferno. You never know what you're
23:34
Speaker 1: going to find. Maybe they ran into the basement, you know,
23:38
Speaker 1: maybe they're there, they're sequestered down there, away from all
23:42
Speaker 1: of this damage that's going on. They have to go
23:44
Speaker 1: through and assess all of this. They have to know
23:47
Speaker 1: do they have a gas leak on their hands? Is
23:49
Speaker 1: there something in this house that could kick off where
23:53
Speaker 1: now you're not just dealing with a fully involved fire,
23:56
Speaker 1: Now you're going to deal with a potential explosion. You've
24:00
Speaker 1: got motor vehicles there that presumably are gas operated. Are
24:05
Speaker 1: they going to be you know, are they going to
24:09
Speaker 1: be involved in the fire again another explosion. Is there
24:13
Speaker 1: a propane tank adjacent to the house. Do they work
24:16
Speaker 1: on natural gas or is it propane tank that's operating
24:19
Speaker 1: everything within the home? Is this thing going to explode?
24:23
Speaker 1: There's so many other considerations when firefighters are assessing an area.
24:28
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of people think, well, you're
24:31
Speaker 1: dragging a hose and this could happen. I'm not saying
24:33
Speaker 1: it happen. In this case, it has happened. You're dragging
24:36
Speaker 1: hose and equipment over a decedent in the front yard. Well,
24:40
Speaker 1: you try, you make note of it. But let me
24:42
Speaker 1: tell you something. If if there is a decedent in
24:46
Speaker 1: the front yard of a structure and you're trying to
24:49
Speaker 1: pull a hose from the curb that's attached to a
24:52
Speaker 1: pumper or directly to a fire hydrant, if the body
24:58
Speaker 1: is there, that hose is going right over body. They're
25:01
Speaker 1: going to get to the house to knock this fire down.
25:04
Speaker 1: So it's a real intricate dance, and you have to
25:09
Speaker 1: take account of this when you're processing the scene. And
25:13
Speaker 1: here's something interesting that many people might not know. Did
25:17
Speaker 1: you know that investigators will take statements from everybody that's
25:22
Speaker 1: present at that scene, and that's something you know. So
25:25
Speaker 1: you'll go back and you'll interview the firefighters, you'll interview
25:28
Speaker 1: the paramedics, you'll interview the lieutenants and the captains that
25:32
Speaker 1: rode in on those trucks. If a chief shows up
25:34
Speaker 1: in a car and he crossed that tape, he's getting
25:37
Speaker 1: interviewed or she's getting interviewed. So everybody that rolls out
25:41
Speaker 1: to that scene is going to be interviewed. We want
25:43
Speaker 1: to know what you have to say because in most
25:45
Speaker 1: cases like this, the police will be there, but the
25:49
Speaker 1: police are not running into the house. That's what the
25:52
Speaker 1: firefighters do. So when the firefighters make their way into
25:56
Speaker 1: that house, they're going to have the first snapshot of
26:00
Speaker 1: what's going on in this environment. Okay, some of them
26:03
Speaker 1: might have seen the scene before got completely obliterated by fire,
26:08
Speaker 1: so their remembrances are so critical to this case, Dave,
26:12
Speaker 1: that they can appreciate what happened, what level of destruction,
26:17
Speaker 1: Where did you see the most intense areas of flame?
26:19
Speaker 1: Did you hear anything when you entered the house. So
26:23
Speaker 1: all of that plays into all of this as very complex.
26:26
Speaker 2: All right, So that actually explains. This is from the
26:32
Speaker 2: actual timeline put together by the prosecutor. Sometimes before five am,
26:37
Speaker 2: Paul Knaro allegedly removed certain items of evidence that's a
26:43
Speaker 2: direct quote, certain items of evidence from his brother's place
26:47
Speaker 2: and set fire to the house. We don't know what
26:50
Speaker 2: these certain items of evidence are. They will come out
26:52
Speaker 2: of trial, but police new enough investigators determined he actually
26:56
Speaker 2: removed certain items of evidence. Then the fire was not
27:00
Speaker 2: discovered until twelve thirty eight PM that day when a
27:03
Speaker 2: neighbor's groundskeeper reported it to authorities. Direct quote, again, based
27:08
Speaker 2: on what we know about the cause and origin of
27:12
Speaker 2: that fire, It was started in the basement, It continues
27:16
Speaker 2: to smolder until there was entry made into the home.
27:22
Speaker 2: Entry is not made by Keith, his wife, his children,
27:28
Speaker 2: because they're all dead. Keith on the front yard, the
27:30
Speaker 2: rest of the families in the house. The entry was
27:33
Speaker 2: made by fire fighters that went inside to see They
27:36
Speaker 2: see the smoldering, they see what's going on, and this
27:39
Speaker 2: is what he says. The prosecutor says, quote, a great
27:42
Speaker 2: deal of oxygen coming into the home effectively fed the fire.
27:47
Speaker 2: So it wasn't reported until twelve thirty eight. And what
27:50
Speaker 2: we believe caused the fire to catch on from there
27:53
Speaker 2: is likely the feeding of oxygen as the house was
27:56
Speaker 2: entered into.
27:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a beautiful excep do nation. It's actually
28:00
Speaker 1: something that we use in fire science to teach our
28:04
Speaker 1: students with because fire itself is what's referred to as
28:08
Speaker 1: an uninhibited chemical chain reaction. So you have to have
28:12
Speaker 1: a heat source striking a match. You have to have
28:16
Speaker 1: an accelerant. Well, that could be any number of different
28:21
Speaker 1: petroleum items for instance. Okay, some are a bit more
28:27
Speaker 1: unstable than others. Gasoline is very unstable, whereas if you
28:31
Speaker 1: have diesel, for instance, it'll burn a bit slower. Kerosene
28:35
Speaker 1: kind of rest in the middle there. And there's other
28:38
Speaker 1: things that you can start fires with, you know, road flares,
28:42
Speaker 1: you know those sorts of things, and you can have
28:45
Speaker 1: electrical origins. And then you have to have fuel source. Well,
28:50
Speaker 1: in this case, the fuel source would be if anything
28:54
Speaker 1: had been drug into the house, like dry wood you
28:58
Speaker 1: had you know, people take piles of clothing and put
29:02
Speaker 1: them about every now and then, or it can just
29:04
Speaker 1: be furniture. It can be because you don't know what
29:08
Speaker 1: the structure of that basement was. For all I know,
29:12
Speaker 1: is a super duperman cave, and you've got wood paneling everywhere,
29:16
Speaker 1: You've got wooden floors that's lacquered or whatever, and it's
29:23
Speaker 1: smoldering in there, and it's seeking out oxygen. But if
29:26
Speaker 1: it's sealed up so tightly that all you're getting is
29:29
Speaker 1: kind of the seepage of smoke that's pouring out. And
29:34
Speaker 1: then you have to have a supply of oxygen, an
29:37
Speaker 1: uninhibited supply of oxygen. So let me tell you this,
29:41
Speaker 1: we're very lucky we don't have deceased firefighters, okay, because
29:46
Speaker 1: when that door opens and oxygen blows into that room,
29:52
Speaker 1: you can have this kind of flash over that takes
29:55
Speaker 1: place with this introduction of the source of oxygen, and
30:00
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you've got this blast that initiates.
30:04
Speaker 1: And that's quite fascinating that the prosecutor framed it that way.
30:09
Speaker 1: I'm very curious as to the mechanism that this individual
30:15
Speaker 1: went with in order to get this thing to You've
30:18
Speaker 1: got a slow burn that's going on. How do you
30:21
Speaker 1: maintain that slow burn to the point where this thing
30:25
Speaker 1: is not going to kick off for several hours, perhaps
30:29
Speaker 1: after it's been set, maybe it's been kind of slowly
30:32
Speaker 1: burning down there, and then all of a sudden boom,
30:36
Speaker 1: the door opens up and you're in a raging inferno
30:40
Speaker 1: at this point in time, which is critical here. What's
30:44
Speaker 1: going to be fascinating this case, Dave, is to listen
30:46
Speaker 1: to the arson investigators talk about this. One other thing
30:49
Speaker 1: I'd like to know is was there any accelerant splashed
30:55
Speaker 1: about the house? You see what I'm saying, So did
30:59
Speaker 1: the perpetrator take multiple cans of an accelerant like gasoline
31:04
Speaker 1: and go floor by floor, room by room and body
31:11
Speaker 1: by body. So many of our friends are very well
31:29
Speaker 1: versed in forensics, and it's not just my doing, it's
31:32
Speaker 1: just everything that you hear in true crime. And I'm
31:36
Speaker 1: so glad that we have friends like that that listen
31:39
Speaker 1: to the show. And if you've listened to True crime
31:44
Speaker 1: for any period of time, you know that fire deaths
31:47
Speaker 1: are deaths where fire has been introduced into an environment
31:52
Speaker 1: are some of the most complex things that we work,
31:56
Speaker 1: I mean, and you have to take account of the
32:01
Speaker 1: body in its pristine state at the scene document those
32:06
Speaker 1: things that seem so convoluted because it is fire scenes
32:13
Speaker 1: are so messy. You're dealing with burned remnant that is
32:22
Speaker 1: not necessarily just the body, but you're talking about ceilings
32:26
Speaker 1: collapsing on bodies that are burning. Not just the bodies,
32:29
Speaker 1: but the ceilings are burning, smoke damage, and all of
32:35
Speaker 1: this ash has fallen down on the bodies. If there's
32:40
Speaker 1: any remnant left of something that maybe clothing, maybe a
32:45
Speaker 1: blanket a body was wrapped in, you have to be
32:48
Speaker 1: able to appreciate all the little boundaries that have been
32:51
Speaker 1: burned away in order to get everything up out of
32:54
Speaker 1: that area, because you can, Dave, you can actually set
32:58
Speaker 1: a body on fire or have fire into a body
33:00
Speaker 1: and the clothing burned up, and of course the clothing
33:03
Speaker 1: that is beneath the body will be to a certain extent,
33:08
Speaker 1: don't run too far with this. To a certain extent,
33:10
Speaker 1: it's going to be preserved. Say, if you've got a
33:13
Speaker 1: couple of kids laying in bed and their bodies are burned, well,
33:19
Speaker 1: if they're wearing pajamas, if they're laying face down, then
33:23
Speaker 1: the surface on their chest is going to be protected
33:26
Speaker 1: from totally being burned away, whereas everything on the back
33:30
Speaker 1: is going to be gone. And this goes to injury
33:33
Speaker 1: assessment too. You know, when we get these bodies into
33:37
Speaker 1: the morgue. Where do you begin, Well, the first place
33:41
Speaker 1: that we begin is going to be with the X rays.
33:44
Speaker 1: That has to That is key here because when you
33:50
Speaker 1: look at a body that has been consumed partially by fire,
33:55
Speaker 1: first off, the external the external observations that you're making
34:04
Speaker 1: are going to be like any nothing else that you
34:06
Speaker 1: see on crime scenes. The bodies will be cracked, the
34:12
Speaker 1: surfaces will be burned to the point where the bodies
34:15
Speaker 1: are literally charred, just like any other item that you
34:19
Speaker 1: might have in a fire. And you can't make heads
34:21
Speaker 1: or tails if you're looking at a bullet defect, or
34:23
Speaker 1: if you're looking at a knife wound, if you're looking
34:26
Speaker 1: at someone that has been pludging with something. So it
34:30
Speaker 1: is very very complex, my friend.
34:33
Speaker 2: All right, So we've got the three bodies in the house,
34:36
Speaker 2: Jennifer and both children, Jesse and Sophia. And we know
34:42
Speaker 2: that this fire smoldered for a number of hours before
34:47
Speaker 2: it exploded into an inferno, with the oxygen being poured
34:51
Speaker 2: into the building by doors being open and what have you.
34:53
Speaker 2: We know that it took twenty different fire I don't
34:56
Speaker 2: know if that's fire departments or if that's just fire.
34:59
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's companies and those yeah, fire companies, Yeah.
35:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I But we've got twenty of those involved,
35:07
Speaker 2: and they're not involved for just an hour. We got
35:09
Speaker 2: twenty fire companies involved for hours trying to extinguish this fire.
35:15
Speaker 2: We know that the bodies were burned, but how are
35:19
Speaker 2: you going to determine based on the burning and everything else?
35:22
Speaker 2: When somebody is stabbed, unless bone is nicked or something
35:25
Speaker 2: along those lines, I would think that your evidence on
35:29
Speaker 2: the body is going to be pretty much burned, right.
35:32
Speaker 1: Not necessarily. Here's the beauty of it is that you know,
35:35
Speaker 1: this is not like a cremation where you have bodies
35:38
Speaker 1: that have been burned for a protracted period of time.
35:43
Speaker 1: You're having turned coals and all those sorts of things.
35:46
Speaker 1: Did you know, Dave, that once a body is burned,
35:50
Speaker 1: the exterior of the body, See how can I put this?
35:53
Speaker 1: The exterior of the body will actually form almost a
35:57
Speaker 1: hardened shell. Okay, with and again is quite ghastly, but
36:02
Speaker 1: with the skin and the underlying subcutaneous fat, it'll it'll
36:08
Speaker 1: almost harden to a certain extent, and you might not
36:11
Speaker 1: be able to appreciate the injuries externally However, once you
36:17
Speaker 1: open up that body, let's just say someone has been stabbed.
36:21
Speaker 1: Did you know that you can still appreciate the wound
36:24
Speaker 1: tract because once you open the body, so you reflect
36:29
Speaker 1: the the the chest tissue for lack of a better term,
36:36
Speaker 1: on the underside of the tissue, you can actually still
36:39
Speaker 1: see like a slit like mark there that a knife
36:44
Speaker 1: has passed through. You overlay that and you can track
36:47
Speaker 1: that through it, passing through maybe between the ribs, you can.
36:53
Speaker 1: It'll track through the organs because the organs are still
36:55
Speaker 1: and depended upon how soon they get to the body,
36:59
Speaker 1: there will be areas of hemorrhage and the defect itself
37:04
Speaker 1: that you'll be able to track through all the ways,
37:06
Speaker 1: say through like the solid organs like a heart or
37:09
Speaker 1: the lungs, and still be able to say, okay, this
37:12
Speaker 1: is in fact a stab wound. Okay. Now, externally, because
37:16
Speaker 1: of that kind of crust that's built up externally on
37:20
Speaker 1: the body, you can't really see it that well, if
37:24
Speaker 1: you're very, very careful, you can in some circumstances. And
37:28
Speaker 1: here's the other thing. Just because of the top of
37:31
Speaker 1: a body is burned. And when I say top, I
37:34
Speaker 1: mean like the top of the trunk, Okay, the top
37:39
Speaker 1: of the Torso just because that portion of the body
37:42
Speaker 1: is burned extensively doesn't mean the lower half that's going
37:46
Speaker 1: to be burned as much. Okay, this is very randomized
37:50
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Even I've had bodies where people have
37:53
Speaker 1: dumped gas on bodies and set them aflame. You will
38:00
Speaker 1: sometimes that flame will just flash over and once the
38:04
Speaker 1: accelerant is burned off, then then you're not going to
38:11
Speaker 1: have a lot more damage done to the body. Okay,
38:14
Speaker 1: post mortem, all right, And it's gruesome if somebody gets
38:17
Speaker 1: gas splashed on them and they catch fire in life,
38:19
Speaker 1: but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about
38:21
Speaker 1: the dead. Whereas if you have the upper portion of
38:24
Speaker 1: the body, say overlying a fuel source like a mattress
38:28
Speaker 1: or clothing or some kind of cloth or a wood,
38:34
Speaker 1: than that, because it again you have that fuel source
38:37
Speaker 1: that's there that's constantly burning, that area of the body
38:40
Speaker 1: will be more extensively burned. So you just have to
38:43
Speaker 1: be very very careful. And that's why it's important to
38:46
Speaker 1: document where the bodies are at the scene so that
38:49
Speaker 1: you can appreciate their relationship, the body's relationships to any
38:54
Speaker 1: other kind of items that might be surrounding that body.
38:58
Speaker 2: This is amazing what you are able to break down
39:02
Speaker 2: from something that doesn't seem to have it. I want
39:06
Speaker 2: to say this the right way. There is so much
39:09
Speaker 2: information that you bring to the table and talking about
39:11
Speaker 2: a situation like this that I'm dumbfounded by what I've
39:15
Speaker 2: never even thought of kind of thing. Because we know
39:18
Speaker 2: we have a massive home, it's almost six thousand square
39:20
Speaker 2: feet and is on fire that has been smoldering for
39:23
Speaker 2: hours before it finally really takes off. We've got one
39:27
Speaker 2: man dead on the front yard, which, by the way,
39:30
Speaker 2: I was noting his the nine one one call from
39:32
Speaker 2: the neighbor. He actually called when he realized the smoke
39:35
Speaker 2: was more intense than he had originally thought. And he's
39:37
Speaker 2: getting closer to the home and as he gets in,
39:40
Speaker 2: you can actually hear, according to the description, and we'll
39:42
Speaker 2: find this out at trial, his description becomes more frantic
39:46
Speaker 2: as he's relating this to nine one one about the fire.
39:49
Speaker 2: And then he gets to the yard and he finds Keith,
39:53
Speaker 2: and he said that's when he freaks out, Oh my god,
39:55
Speaker 2: there's blood, there's there's a dead body. You know, That's
40:00
Speaker 2: what the fire crews were and police were coming into.
40:03
Speaker 2: They knew this is something more than just a big
40:06
Speaker 2: house on fire, and so I was wondering about, you know,
40:10
Speaker 2: the fire hoses. I maybe it might seem like I
40:15
Speaker 2: don't care, but I was wondering about that when you
40:17
Speaker 2: talked about the hoses would be drug right over the
40:19
Speaker 2: body because you got to get to the fire. There's
40:21
Speaker 2: more danger in there too. But it took them several
40:24
Speaker 2: hours before they could even actually go into the structure,
40:27
Speaker 2: all the while knowing they probably have bodies inside. Joe,
40:31
Speaker 2: do the fire crews as they go through the house
40:35
Speaker 2: and they're putting out the fire, do they kind of
40:37
Speaker 2: do a quick analysis of the structure of the building.
40:40
Speaker 2: It determine whether or not you can come in and
40:42
Speaker 2: look at what's left. What point does that decision made?
40:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well you will have to have there will
40:49
Speaker 1: be a senior person with the fire service that will
40:53
Speaker 1: walk through and they'll check the structural integrity of the
40:58
Speaker 1: scene itself. And a little aside here I've had I've
41:07
Speaker 1: had a rafter collapse on my head that was still
41:10
Speaker 1: on fire. It had coals burning on top of it.
41:13
Speaker 1: I got the back of my neck burned and as
41:17
Speaker 1: kind of a joke, but I was greatly appreciative of it.
41:20
Speaker 1: At that time. I used to wear a hard hat
41:23
Speaker 1: when I would go out one of the fire stations
41:28
Speaker 1: that I was friends with. Those guys, they didn't actually
41:30
Speaker 1: invite me over to eat every now and then when
41:32
Speaker 1: I was on duty. Uh, they gave me a h
41:35
Speaker 1: They gave me a fire helmet at one point, and
41:39
Speaker 1: as it turned out, you know, now it's pretty common
41:41
Speaker 1: practice if you go to a medical examiner's office, you'll
41:45
Speaker 1: fire you'll find those kind of classic fire helmets that
41:50
Speaker 1: people think of, you know, and they'll be the badge
41:52
Speaker 1: on the front of will actually say medical examiner, now,
41:55
Speaker 1: oh wow. And you know the heavier jackets that they wear,
41:58
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. That's kind of common practice back
42:01
Speaker 1: in my day, early on in my career that that
42:03
Speaker 1: didn't happen as much. So you you're you know, in
42:08
Speaker 1: a case like this, your safety is pre eminent because
42:11
Speaker 1: you you know, if anybody is in there that is deceased,
42:14
Speaker 1: you're not going to bring them back to life by
42:16
Speaker 1: virtue of your presence. However, you can die because it's
42:19
Speaker 1: a very unstable, dangerous environment, and you want to make
42:23
Speaker 1: sure that it's safe when you go in there to
42:25
Speaker 1: begin to process the scene. You know, before you're going
42:27
Speaker 1: to remove anything. And here's another thing. When you have
42:30
Speaker 1: bodies that are kind of semi rendered down as a
42:34
Speaker 1: result of fire, all of the area that is approximating
42:40
Speaker 1: the body is going to go into the bag as
42:42
Speaker 1: well into into the body bag at the scene, and
42:49
Speaker 1: when that is X rayed, you'll find nuts, screws, springs,
42:57
Speaker 1: You'll find all kinds of stuff that's in there, and
42:59
Speaker 1: you kind of have to make when you're looking at
43:01
Speaker 1: the x ray, you're kind of having to make your
43:03
Speaker 1: way through it and try to understand is this important,
43:08
Speaker 1: is that something or is this within the body as
43:11
Speaker 1: opposed to outside of the body, Because you know, with
43:13
Speaker 1: a case like this where you've you've already got evidence.
43:16
Speaker 1: Can you imagine the shock of that neighbor. He's rolling up,
43:19
Speaker 1: he sees smoke, and he rolls up and here's a
43:22
Speaker 1: guy that's probably you know, leaned over the you know,
43:27
Speaker 1: proverbial fence with and chatted you know with before, and
43:30
Speaker 1: he's laying dead in the front yard. You know, you're
43:34
Speaker 1: looking upon him and you're thinking, oh, my Lord in heaven,
43:39
Speaker 1: you know what what's happening. You know, at this moment
43:42
Speaker 1: in time. You never know what you're going to find
43:46
Speaker 1: at a crime scene involving a fire. You never know
43:49
Speaker 1: what you're going to find with the bodies. Because you're
43:53
Speaker 1: talking about gunshot womens. You can find a projectile in there.
43:56
Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking about Key's body right now. You've
43:58
Speaker 1: got multiple gunshot wounds, So are there multiple projectiles? Well
44:03
Speaker 1: with the wife, is the projectile still in her body?
44:07
Speaker 1: And where is it located? That would be essential. And
44:12
Speaker 1: I think some people would think, well, what's the purpose
44:14
Speaker 1: of doing an X ray on a body that's been stabbed?
44:18
Speaker 1: How do you know they've been stabbed, particularly in a
44:20
Speaker 1: fire scene. Oh and by the bye, if they are stabbed,
44:24
Speaker 1: guess what happens to blades? Many times blades chip, blades break.
44:29
Speaker 1: I found the tips of knife of knives broken off
44:34
Speaker 1: in spines. Before you know, you see that perfect little
44:38
Speaker 1: opaque triangle that's resting there, you know, in the in
44:42
Speaker 1: the spine, and you're going to have to go in
44:45
Speaker 1: an autopsy and dissect out that vertebral body and retrieve,
44:50
Speaker 1: retrieve that tip of that So there's a lot to
44:53
Speaker 1: be considered, and most importantly, I think here one of
44:57
Speaker 1: the assessments that you're going to do with the autopsy
44:59
Speaker 1: is were they alive? Were they alive when the fire started?
45:06
Speaker 2: You know, how are you going to tell that?
45:08
Speaker 1: Joe, Oh, It's it's actually quite simple day tell the truth.
45:12
Speaker 1: That's actually one of the most simple things that we do.
45:18
Speaker 1: First off, there's two things. There's actually multiple, but I'll
45:22
Speaker 1: just I'll try to keep it simple and brief. But
45:26
Speaker 1: first off, the tissues within within the mouth, the fairynex,
45:32
Speaker 1: going down the throat into the airway, you'll see them
45:35
Speaker 1: be highly irritated, obviously, and then you're thinking about taking
45:41
Speaker 1: on soot because every time you breathe in like that
45:46
Speaker 1: and you're in a smoking environment, you're going to take
45:48
Speaker 1: in those particulate bits and you'll find those again in
45:51
Speaker 1: the airway and certainly down into the lungs. The other
45:54
Speaker 1: thing that we do at autopsy is we run a
45:58
Speaker 1: test called a carboxy human globin level, and it's something
46:01
Speaker 1: that you see with carbon monoxide poisoning. Well, carbon monoxide
46:06
Speaker 1: is a byproduct of a fire, and when you do
46:11
Speaker 1: the autopsy, just even when you draw the blood. Guess
46:14
Speaker 1: what color the blood is if there is, if there's
46:19
Speaker 1: carbon monoxide, it's pink. Think about the brightest artificially made
46:24
Speaker 1: candy that's out there. It's that got that kind of
46:28
Speaker 1: weird pinkish, reddish hue to it, and that gets into
46:33
Speaker 1: the organs as well. Well. The only way that happens
46:35
Speaker 1: is if there's an uptake of oxygen or an uptake
46:39
Speaker 1: of air, rather not oxygen but air in this environment
46:42
Speaker 1: that's got carbon monoxide in it, so you're taking that
46:46
Speaker 1: on board. So there's multiple ways that we can tell
46:49
Speaker 1: if the individual was still in the land of the
46:51
Speaker 1: living when they died. And you know, the interesting point
47:01
Speaker 1: here is this, and this is what we will eventually
47:04
Speaker 1: hopefully find out. First off, how much did these victims suffer?
47:12
Speaker 1: What was their absolute cause of death? Was it a
47:17
Speaker 1: stab wound or was it a stab wound where they
47:22
Speaker 1: were left in the space slowly bleeding out all the
47:27
Speaker 1: while breathing in the smoke that was coming up from
47:31
Speaker 1: the basement.
47:32
Speaker 2: Joe, the way you've just phrased all that is so important.
47:36
Speaker 2: A wrongful death lawsuit has been filed by the maternal
47:40
Speaker 2: grandfather of Sophia Canaro follow me here, friends. Paul Canaro
47:46
Speaker 2: has been charged in the killings and is awaiting trial
47:49
Speaker 2: after six years. We're now looking at possibly next March
47:51
Speaker 2: before this goes to trial. He is the sole defendant
47:54
Speaker 2: in the wrongful death lawsuit filed on behalf of the
47:57
Speaker 2: estate of Sophia Canaro by Vlassis Coreedes, her maternal grandfather.
48:04
Speaker 2: The suit is seeking damages from Paul Canaro on behalf
48:07
Speaker 2: of the girl's estate. How is that possible? Keith, Jennifer
48:12
Speaker 2: and Jesse Canaro died instantly, but an autopsy now shows
48:17
Speaker 2: Sophia survived for nine hours after the attack before she
48:21
Speaker 2: died of smoke inhalation. And the lawyer that files is
48:24
Speaker 2: filing the wrongful death lawsuit says that's why they are
48:27
Speaker 2: filing it this way, because Sophia survived her parents, she
48:30
Speaker 2: inherited their estates and died into state, passing the estates
48:35
Speaker 2: to her grandparents, and Vlassis Coreedes has standing to now
48:39
Speaker 2: bring this claim of wrongful death against Paul Canaro. So
48:45
Speaker 2: now we know, while Keith, Jennifer and Jesse Canaro all
48:49
Speaker 2: died instantly, little Sophia lived for nine hours and died
48:54
Speaker 2: of smokinghalation.
48:56
Speaker 1: There's so much more left here with this case, to
48:59
Speaker 1: be able to unpacked, to be able to understand, and
49:02
Speaker 1: to be able to put together this mosaic that seems
49:06
Speaker 1: very very complex. And you know, to kind of paraphrase
49:10
Speaker 1: a quote from the defense attorney that is handling this
49:16
Speaker 1: case for Paul brother Paul, this is a dump truck
49:22
Speaker 1: load of forensic evidence and there are terabytes of it.
49:26
Speaker 1: The question is what kind of tale will be told
49:31
Speaker 1: in the New Jersey murder Mansion. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan
49:37
Speaker 1: and this is Body Backs