Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 734: Confessions of a First Time Showrunner with Kaye Singleton

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IFH 734: Confessions of a First Time Showrunner with Kaye Singleton · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Indie Film Hustle
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Podcast, Episode number seven thirty four. The scariest moment is always just before
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you start. Stephen King broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the
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Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive and thrive as
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an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the film biz. And here's your host,
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Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle
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Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored
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by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn your independent film into a profitable
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business. It's harder today than ever before for independent filmmakers to make money with
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their films from predatory film distributors ripping them off to huckster film aggregators who prey
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upon them. The odds are stacked against the end indie filmmaker. The old
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If you're making a feature film, series, or any other kind of
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book is available in paperback, ebook, and of course audiobook. If you
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want to order it, just head over to www. Dot filmbiz book dot
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com. That's film bizbook dot com. Now, guys, today on the
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show, we have a very unique experience. I've had many, many legendary
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showrunners on the show, but today we're going to talk to writer, director,
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and actress Kay Singleton. Kay is a first time showrunner. I've never
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had a first time show runner on the show before, and we talk about
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all the trials and tribulations that she had to go through, not only show
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running the show, producing the show, writing the show exclusively by yourself without
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a writer's room, and acting in that same show, and it is a
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eye opening experience for all of you writers out there to hopefully one day want
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to show run a show. So sit back, relax, and enjoy this
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raw conversation with Kay Singleton. I like to welcome to the show. Kay
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Singleton. How you doing? Kay, I'm good. How are you glad
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to be here? Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm
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fascinated with your story and there I haven't had I have many showrunners on the
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show, but I've never had a first time showrunner on the show. So
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we're gonna go into the weeds of I'm sure it went smoothly, no problems
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whatsoever. It is worth all the time. They just said, Okay,
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all you have is time and money. Okay, yeah, that would have
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been a dream be up there. So total one to eighty. But so
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before we get started, what why and how did you get into this insanity
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that is the film industry? Oh my gosh. So I was on a
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whole nother pack. I was in marketing for almost ten years and then you
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know, I poked some random role in a student bilm and caught the bug
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and I was like, you know what, let me take this seriously,
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so I had my job transferred me to LA I was working with mow at
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Hennessy at the time, and I started taking classes at Stella Adler, which
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is a two year conservatory program for theater, and then I trained with Vana
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Chubbik and I was like, Okay, now I have this training, I
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want to go back to Atlanta. And it was easier for me to get
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on as an actress. But then it's just like thousands auditions later, I'm
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one out. You know, I want to I want to have the roles
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that I see myself in or that I feel like I can play, and
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I also want to be able to create, right. I want to have
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us seat at this table where I can have some say in some of these
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stories that are coming out. So then I was like, well, let
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me take two years of writing classes. So then around I want to say,
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twenty eighteen, I took two years of writing classes and then got into
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some screenwriting contests, did two short films and it sounds quick, it didn't
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feel like it, and it was a lot of hartwork in money, and
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I got a meeting with All Black and thankfully, and this was after mini
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meetings. It wasn't the first and they finally said, okay, I think
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you know you have something and we're willing to take a tre on you.
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As far as the scripts, and I pitched six different projects, wasn't just
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Covenant, and that was the one, and that I'm surprised that they went
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with because it's so different being a faith based anthology series. Very so,
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so let me ask you then, So you had so when you decided to,
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so you went down the the Ben Affleck, Matt Damon Tyler Perry route,
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which is like I can't find the parts that I want, I'm going
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to write my way in especially absolutely. Yeah, So how many projects did
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you You said you had six shows? Did you have six shows with Bibles?
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And like, did you the full pitches and the pitch deck and all
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of that ready when you walk into with the other So that was done on
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like six months? Right, all those six projects? You wrote those about
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six twelve months, and like, I didn't write the Actually Covenant was one
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I had a somewhat of a pilot writing for, but it wasn't like in
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its final draft mode. And that was the one that was the least done
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and the other ones I had because I'd been working on them a while.
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I was like, okay, these I have the show bible, I have
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the pitch stacks, I have the one sheets, but this one I had
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so once they said okay, this is the one we're interested in, I
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had to go back and revamp the show bible, may get more detailed,
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you know, make to show how it can go throughout the season and from
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season to season and all these breakdowns, and eventually do a look book and
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all these things. So yeah, and redo the pilot. And because it
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was COVID, I actually had to write every episode of the season myself,
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right, So you couldn't have a writer's room. You couldn't have a writer's
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room, and basically I didn't because we couldn't afford it. The the budget
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is, you know, very much a new thing. They were taking a
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chance, so it wasn't a huge budget at all, So you know it
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was it was the hardest thing I ever did in my life. Well,
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you know what's interesting about your story is that you didn't come into this business
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fresh as like a wide eyed You had another career and you probably came into
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this at a completely different perspective where I've seen so many filmmakers. So many
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writers who come in early when they're in the early twenties or young, and
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they haven't done anything else yet, and they just are so wide eyed and
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bushytailed about the whole thing that the business crushes them. Where you already had
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some life experience with you, you already had another career. He said,
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No, you know what, if I'm going to be an actor, I'm
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going to go train, not I'm going to go audition and maybe I'll learn
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along the way. And then you said, hey, I'm going to be
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a writer, I better go learn how to write. And you took a
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class, two years of classes. So that's a really great lesson for everyone
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listening is like, it takes time to build up the tools in the toolbox
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to do what you're trying to do. Correct. Absolutely, And because this
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is the thing about writing and structure, they can tell when as soon as
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they get a script, any studio, executive, producer, production company,
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whatever, they can tell if you actually have the training in your script structure,
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excuse me, is correct. And that was one of the things I
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think sold it because I had done all of the back work and so it
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looked you can see these scripts they jump out on the page at you.
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And that's only from training. It's not anything you know that I did myself.
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Level was, you know, a great person once I started writing.
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No, that's from training and knowing how to do the format, knowing the
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beats, knowing how to do exact structure. I still keep structure notes up
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on my wall all around my office because you know, we're always still a
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student and trying to get better and trying to you know, improve ourselves.
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But it was the training, and I implore people to take the time out
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and invest in you going now. This is why when I work with actors
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as a director, anytime I'm in the casting process, I always try to
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be as kind as possible because it's brutal. It's brutal, well more brutal
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for the actors coming in than it is for us, but it's also brutal
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for the director and the producers because if you have to just kind of go
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through this again and again. But while you were coming up as an actress,
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how did you deal with the nose and the rejections? Because there's a
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very different rejection from a writer rejection than an actor rejection, because the writer
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direction is, like I don't like your work. The actor of directions like
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I don't like you for this, like it's personal, and a lot of
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actors take it personally, but it really is like you're too tall, you're
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too short, you don't have the right energy, you don't have the right
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look, and has nothing to do with you, and nothing you could do
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to get you to help you get that part. But with the writing,
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there are things you can do. You can rework the characters, you can't
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rework the things. But both have very distinct rejections. How did you keep
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going in this business? We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
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Now back to the show. You know what it is, and it's
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a ticking clock that I have going on in my mind right and I'm just
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going to be completely honest on you know, take down any curtains and just
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tell you the real I am a woman of an age. You know,
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once you hit thirty. It's like there's a timeline ticking that I have to
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meet certain goals, do certain things, and in our mind, we want
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to have a family, have y as all these things. So I had
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a different source of motivation internally, but also as far as rejection too It's
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like I had to learn to not take to put myself into these roles.
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So at first I was getting my feelings hurt. I was like, I'm
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sick of this. I had stopped auditioning for a long time. I'm done
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with it, you know, I'm got to you do go back to the
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marketing or whatever. And I gave up a few times. But it's also
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when you have this pull for this business and for this craft and for this
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artistry, you are in to do the audition and throw it away. Don't
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think about it. Don't go into it thinking, oh, it would be
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great if I had this role in how you look. Don't daydream about it.
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Do the audition, forget about it, delete it from the email frist
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so you never have to look at it again, as far as the notice
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from your agent and all that, and keep it pushing because nothing is promised.
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And like you said, there's so many different factors, because I've been
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on the other side as to why you don't get cast that nine times out
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of teena and nothing to do with you, nothing to do with your performance,
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none of that. It's just this is what was needed, or maybe
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an offer was already out and you're auditioning anyway. That happens all the time.
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They're have an offer out, but they also just want to see other
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people, you know, for good measure, and it's just people don't know
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all of the backstory and what's going on, you know, behind the curtain.
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Yeah, and not to mention, you know, sometimes like they bring
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them a young actor, young actress. Oh, they just got cast in
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Black Panther or just not cast in the event movie. So we're bringing him
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then, not the best of the part, but he's gonna be huge,
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We're gonna bring him in. There's there's a lot of this kind of politicking
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going on behind the scenes that you just don't know as an actor. But
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now as a writer, how did you because it's so different, how did
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you deal because I'm assuming COVID when you went into that first meeting that wasn't
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the first time. You had probably did a few other of these meetings before.
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How did you deal with the rejection from the from those experiences? He
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hit me, I had a media answer you this quick story with a big
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network. For me, it was big to me at the time, and
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I was like, oh my god, I was excited about it was flying
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to New York. Literally the night before, I get an email from you
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know, somebody's assistant best saying that they're canceling the meeting that I had been
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working on for three months. And they're like, oh, you should just
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email whatever you were going to pitch, but you know, we don't have
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time to do it tomorrow. I had booked a flight, paid for a
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hotel. The whole non was just devastating, and I remember laying on my
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couch for a day. I gave myself twenty four hours just to be pissed,
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you know, and just sit there. I don't talk to anybody.
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I was so it was hard to go through that process. But then you
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start to get a thicker skin and realize that that was not the place for
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you. And now I'm more meticulous about who I even attempt to pitch too.
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Don't just throw your project out there. And this is Renewer Writers.
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Is your content right for the actual studio or network or whatnot that you're pitching
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it too? Do they fit? It's rotique? Like they have a particular
13:43
look feel for all of their shows, whether it's FX or AFC or Stars
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or HBO or Apple. You can tell the kind of tone that they want
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for all of their shows and don't so that way, if you know this,
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there's a very particular that you're going to pitch it too, and then
14:01
wait for the opportunity. Sometimes the it's not good to just cold call is
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all the time. It's not good to goll call and then just send random
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emails. But wait for a great opportunity and it might just you know,
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work out that way. I feel like I'm bearing off. I always no,
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no, no, it's it's you're you're none, You're you're absolutely right,
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because I think so many, so many times, writers and filmmakers and
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actors they just wanted they wanted to happen tomorrow. We all wanted to happen
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tomorrow. We all want to get that call like all you have is time
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and money which never comes because you want that call like you're a genius.
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We want to be in the k business. Can you did anyone ever say
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that to you? I can't, Well, one person, and so that
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that is, and I'm waiting for the next the next one, please exactly.
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But we're all waiting for that. But that that could take years,
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as it was in your experience, and most people don't have the the fortitude
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to keep going because if there's a perseverance, And I don't know about you,
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I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. It's not always about talent,
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almost never about talent. It's never about skill. Even sometimes it's about
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who just stood in the game longer, who's the most you know, the
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perseverance of just keeping going, keeping going. Because I've worked with people,
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I'm like, how the hell did you get five million bucks for this movie?
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Like how you're clueless? Like how is this really even this is a
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thing? How did you get on set when I know twenty other people behind
15:31
you who could do your job better? Like I don't understand that, But
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isn't that in your from your experience as well as like the person who just
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stays in the game the longest, does it have to be the most talented
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or the most skilled? Absolutely? This is a who you know business.
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It really is who's your friends in the industry, who's your uncle or your
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dad or whoever? And it's it. It goes in that path a lot
15:54
of the times, and so that, like you were saying, you almost
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have to persevere and wait it out to get past those people that were in
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these places that didn't deserve to be right. Because the very next day after
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the thing I canceled in New York, I called an executive in LA.
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It was like, Hey, I'm in LA next week. Can I have
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a meeting? I would love to do this. I didn't. I wasn't
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really going to be in LA. But because he said yes, I booked
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the flight and ran out to LA so I could pitch my show. But
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like, those are the kind of sacrifices you'd have to make that most people
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don't because they get walked into the business without necessarily having to trudge through it,
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you know, like Moss do without questions, numbers game, and I'm
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just I'm over it in many ways, but I'm still I'm motivated because there's
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so many stories I want to sell. I mean, look, I completely
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understand you, because as you get older, you just put up with less
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bs. You just, I mean, stuff you put up at twenty you're
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not putting up with at forty. You know, it's just just not like
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I'm like, no, I don't care how much money it is. My
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lege's too short. Like you start getting to that place in your life where
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you just start figuring out what's important to you. And and it's hard for
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younger people to understand that because I remember, I've been at any bone that
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was thrown my way, no matter how unflavorable it might have been. I
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took it because at the beginning, you kind of have to do that to
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build up all the tools that you're gonna need to keep going in this business.
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But as those tools, as that toolbox gets heavier, you start going,
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I'm gonna be picky, a little bit pickier, a little bit more
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choosing. But I can see it in your in the way you say,
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You're like, yeah, I am. I'm kind of a little over it
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at this point, after having it for sure, because being dressed into a
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position of that magnitude, and you know, being there from you know,
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the idea and then the development process, which was you know, a lot
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of it was just me doing tons of research and then writing, and then
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the pre production and then you're out of time with pre production you only have
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a couple of weeks. Then there's principal photography, and then you know post
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production, and you know who was teaching Who's going to teach me about rap?
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No one taught me rap. I was like, what is this concept.
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What is rap? Oh? I have to do all this paperwork,
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I have to do all these legal deliverables. I have to you know,
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it was it whouled my mind. This is the last day of filming when
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I was like, you know, figuring out what RAP was. And then
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the post production is a whole other beast. Yeah, and then that's another
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three months where it's like every day there's something that needs to be done.
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And I don't know about you, but I'm one of those people. I
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want to sit in the editing bay with the editor for twelve hours a day
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sometimes and make sure that every frame is right in that kind of thing.
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And then I lived. I made my I made my bones and post production.
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I was in post for twenty five years before I retired. Uh oh
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for my shut down, my post house did everything because I was like,
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I'm done, I'm a I'm a podcaster now. But no, so then
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you know, you know, post is a beast. Oh. I've done
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everything from post super post, supervising, VFX, supervising, online editorial,
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color grading. I've done all of it myself, and so I understood the
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I mean I literally consult people on how to do post workflow how to get
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it from the camera all the way to final deliverables, and they're like,
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what's a deliverable? Lo I'm like, you need me more than you think
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it's So that's the whole thing. But before we get the post, I
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want to I want to go back to the beginning of Covenant, so you
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you get thrust it into a showrunner position. Uh first time. This is
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kind of an unheard of scenario because you don't I don't hear these stories off.
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This is one of the reasons why I want to do on the show,
19:52
because to become a showrunner, you need to have a track record as
19:56
a writer, and maybe a head rider and we'll be right back after a
20:02
word from our sponsor and now back to the show, and then maybe a
20:10
co producer, and you go through the steps and then maybe you know,
20:15
five, six, seven years down the line, they're like, Okay,
20:17
you know, they wrote something really good, they've got a good track record,
20:19
let's give them a shot to be maybe a co executive producer. Like
20:23
there's a process because it's a massive amount of responsibility to try to run a
20:29
show, even a show with a little you know, small Your show is
20:33
not you know, it's not Game of Thrones, so it's not a massive
20:36
show, but it's still massive. It's like making four features at one times.
20:42
So what was it? What was it like being thrusted into that in
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the pre production process, which was basically just you, which is a little
20:49
not not normal. It's just all you. But like when you walked on
20:53
set for the first time as a show runner and everyone's looking at you.
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Oh, by the way, you also an actress in this, which is
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another thing that's mind boggling to me. And a producer and a writer,
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like, how God's Green Earth did you sleep? I didn't for six months,
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I will tell you I was so stressed out and probably went through a
21:15
slight depression too. But I will say this, it was And I have
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a huge amount of respect for showrunners, for producers, for head writers,
21:26
for writers' rooms, and so I don't take this lightly. And quite honestly,
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I would have loved, you know, to have a huge producing team
21:37
like you know, like they have on HBO or wherever else, and that
21:40
way I could have been more of the creative instead of having to deal with
21:42
the business part of it. But having to do that and having to sit
21:48
through you know, pre production and pick out locations and do all these things.
21:52
It changed me fundamentally, right it it I don't want to say it
21:57
broke something amy, but also so rebirth something so that I could come out
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of this from a naive bathe into like a fully grown adult, because we
22:08
don't understand all these processes that go on behind the scenes, and I don't
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think people have a lot of respect for all those processes and all those positions,
22:19
whether it be with crew or pas or script supervisors or what have you.
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And it allowed me to gain an immense amount of respect for those as
22:30
well. And I feel like I went off in the TANDRD, so I
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forgot what question I was supposed to be answering. What was it like you?
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Walking on that first day on Stone, first day on set, it
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literally was the scariest thing of my life, because yes, you do all
22:44
this preparation, Yes you've done as much as you can do, but when
22:48
it's that first day, it's like, are we going to sink or swim?
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And so I got there, we prayed I would do too, would
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be too. I shut a tear and and it it went and before you
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know, before you know it, you know you're twelve hours in, you're
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sixteen hours in, and then you go home and sleep for four hours,
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and you're back there the next day and every day until the end. And
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it's it. It's changed me and that first day on set will be something
23:22
that I will forever remember for the rest of my life. It wasn't exciting
23:27
as much as it was terrifying, but it was yet through It sounds like
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you went through basically this was a film school for you, Like this was
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a you know, trial by fire kind of scenario. Let me ask you,
23:41
though, did you have the pressure of the studio there, Like did
23:45
you have like that whole Godfather Francis for Copola moment where like, we're going
23:48
to replace you at any moment if this you know, if you're if you
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can't make your days, we're shutting this down and we're bringing somebody else in
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to pick this up. I wish I would have been there, you know,
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you wish you would have They would like they literally threw you to the
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wolves, like you just figure it out and let us know when you got
24:04
to move the show right because it and that's what I want to tell newer
24:10
creatives. Your contracts are what's really important to look into, right because in
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my and I don't want to get too deep into it, but my particular
24:22
setup was, you know, if we don't. It wasn't about the days.
24:26
It wasn't all this about that you make these deliverables and you do it
24:30
for this amount of money or you're responsible for it and you can need to
24:33
ouch. Oh man, you really put yourself out there. Geez, exactly.
24:38
And so that's why I made the comment of you all wish there would
24:44
have been that case because it would have I think, alleviated some of the
24:48
pressure, because there was another you know, set of eyes and all of
24:52
those things. But right, and and also and almost also a ripcord that
24:56
if you're like, man, this is too hard, I can I could
25:00
pull the parachute. I'll go back to marketing, like like right, exactly
25:04
right, No, we're too debent. Now. It's like you have to
25:08
there's no other way. You you burn the ships, right, you burn
25:14
the ships. You burn the ships at the coast. You can't go back.
25:17
You gotta it's one way. And that's it. Wow, I mean,
25:19
geez, that's that's ballsy, man. I gotta I gotta give it
25:23
to you. My dear, that is some big kohonas to go out there.
25:27
But I have to ask you again, like, that's insane what you're
25:30
what's what's being proposed here? What you've done is it's slight. We all
25:34
have to be a little insane to be in this business. But in general,
25:38
but what you did was really amazing in the sense that you put it
25:42
all on the line. This could have bankrupted you, this could of offline.
25:51
But yes, this could have destroyed whatever career you were building in this
25:56
space other than being an actress. So you really roll the dice and you
26:00
trust and you bet on yourself to make this happen. Is that correct?
26:06
Absolutely? And I promise you it was nothing but the grace of God that
26:10
pulled me through. It was, and I don't say it lightly, that
26:14
it was the hardest endeavor. And when people say it's a miracle that any
26:18
production gets finished and you see it on the big sphen or TV or wherever
26:21
it is, it really is. There's so many pitfalls and hills and stumb
26:26
robots that come, obstacles that come your way during the course of it that
26:30
it takes that kind of experience to get past it and to this day.
26:37
I don't know how you were able to survive. Were you here me?
26:40
And you also had you directed other than the short films prior to that.
26:45
No, so it's not like you were you were deeping into a dipping into
26:48
a well of like ten years of directing, in ten years of producing in
26:52
ten like and this is like the first time I'm doing it all for the
26:56
for the real show. You're kind of learning on the go. I mean,
27:00
it's it's because I know what you went through, because I've been there.
27:04
I've had a show that I had to knock out in four days and
27:07
I had to do eight episodes we did we shot night. How many pages
27:12
we shoot? Ninety six pages and four days. I think it was on
27:17
a set with visual effects. I've been there, And I was also posting
27:22
on like a ten million dollar movie for Hulu at the same time. So
27:25
I was like directing for twelve hours. Go home, had to fix some
27:29
deliverables export comeback. Like you could see me, I said, I was
27:33
just about to like and I was out of shape. Yeah, I was
27:37
out of shape. I was like, I'm like, I'm leaning on the
27:40
DP, like to just frame the shot up. Man. I can't.
27:44
I don't know where, Like I was everything with Kenny and Flabby, and
27:48
I was just like, I hate but it's you know, but it's but
27:52
yeah, exactly, it's this kind of insanity. So I understand what you
27:56
were going through. But when I did it, I had fifteen years of
28:00
directing experience behind I mean producing experience and so many post experience, and so
28:04
I like, I understood what But you went in almost cold to that kind
28:10
of scenario, if you know what. It was like, either I do
28:15
it now, I take the opportunity, or who knows, because like I
28:19
said right before that, I got turned down for even to pitch me,
28:22
like they canceled it and that was it. And I didn't hear anything about
28:26
it. So it was either you do this now or you may not ever
28:29
get an opportunity. And so I felt like I was between a rock and
28:33
a hard place. I mean, did I realize I was probably in over
28:37
my head? Yeah, but not but not really, not until you got
28:41
into it, not until I really was there and I was like, oh,
28:45
this is this could be a shit show, you know, and I
28:48
really had so, like you said, it was like going to New York
28:51
Film School in that one production and with the directing, and I directed one
28:57
episode out of the four. But it was almost I did that because I
29:02
know how I want directors to speak to me as an actor and to relate
29:07
sings to me or relay their vision, and I feel like sometimes as actors
29:11
we don't get that because directors sometimes not all the time, because I've had
29:15
some amazing directors, but sometimes they you know, focus on the lighting and
29:21
the camera setups and this and the that, and you know, they let
29:23
acts do whatever they want, which is cool, but we want to know
29:27
what the director wants. We want to know what their vision is, and
29:32
we want to know that we're doing a good job or pleasing you know,
29:34
whoever the powers that we are. So because I had been through that side
29:41
of it, I wanted to be able to communicate that with actors and so
29:47
I felt like I was a director's actor in that sense, like I can
29:52
talk to them in a way that they understand, we'll be right back after
29:57
a word from our sponsor and now back to the show that I don't there
30:07
sometimes that we don't always get And so that was like the motivation to do
30:11
that, Now was I always ask this that question because as directors, as
30:18
producers, there's always a day on set that you feel the entire world's coming
30:23
crashing down around you. I know that was every second of every day,
30:26
But was there a moment that you in that production did you just go,
30:33
oh, no, I don't think I'm gonna make it like and well,
30:37
was that moment and how did you go overcome it figure out the best way
30:41
to tell this story? We were on publicly right. We were on location
30:48
for an episode and it was actually the episode that was in and at the
30:55
last minute, the owner of the location wanted to change the deal and says,
31:00
shocking, we want more money because we didn't think this protection was going
31:06
to be this big. We'd already signed the location agreements, we had already
31:08
signed the contracts, and I was like, but you can't just change the
31:12
amount right at the last minute. And so we went ahead and kept shooting,
31:18
and then the owner ended up showing up on set and was saying,
31:23
you know, we were going to shut it down if you don't pay another
31:27
five thousand dollar. It was like asortion, if you don't pay another five
31:30
thousand dollars, and I was just I was living right because it was already
31:36
so many things going on, so many things going wrong. Great, it
31:40
was just a storm at that moment. And I remember telling one of the
31:47
second AD I think was second AD, so you know, let's get the
31:49
cast and the crew very calm. Let's get the cast and the crew downstairs
31:55
and so I can have a conversation. They had a big, huge finished
31:57
ballroom basement and so I can talk to, you know, the gentleman,
32:04
and so he was looking scared. I was like, let's do this now,
32:07
you know, it's just put some fire behind it. So then once
32:09
they were downstairs and I was alone with myself, a couple of producers,
32:15
and the gentleman. I remember like laying into this guy like this is ridiculous.
32:22
You are extorting me. This cannot go down. I remember we call
32:27
the police and having them come and like this, we have a location agreement
32:32
that you were going to stand by and I will, you know for you.
32:37
And the police came and they ended up making the owner and leave because
32:40
of the location agreement. And I literally had to go from that from you
32:47
know, being upset going off to you know, talking to the office service,
32:52
who were very nice, and you know, get in all of that
32:55
squared away. Now I'm hot and sweaty and upset, and I have the
33:00
both film the scene because we were filming my episode, so I had to.
33:04
Of course, now they have to pet me down. I guys sit
33:07
on the couch and do the rest of the show. And that's the thing.
33:13
It's like much responsibility. Every everything falls on you. You got to
33:19
solve the problems. You gotta say the day and you gotta, you know,
33:22
figure out the rest of the show. Jeez, god, bless man.
33:27
I look the whole location thing. That always is fun. I always
33:30
hear that if that's happened, and like, yeah, oh we dropped out,
33:34
the location dropped out. We got to go shoot something on the day
33:36
of I've never had it. I've had I've had the neighbor come out with
33:40
the air blower, the leaf blower in the middle of the scene. And
33:45
then you gotta have a little bit of that cash, all of money lying
33:46
around to pay off people. And please just please please watch your car later,
33:52
please move your because they know, especially if you're in la oh forget
33:54
it, then they absolutely know. Oh no, you gotta know, you
34:00
gotta pay. Everyone's got their hands out, everyone's got there and then and
34:04
then if a good location manager knows they have to have petty cash on set
34:08
to deal with that stuff because this is but this is just experience. No
34:12
one teaches you this stuff. We didn't have it. We were like,
34:15
oh, we gotta go get that. Yeah, you know that whole thing
34:20
might have been like, look, man, can we give you another five
34:22
hundred books and and call it a day? And he'd probably be like I
34:24
and and that would have and then that would have saved you a lot of
34:28
time and headache. And because every minute that's going by its thousands of dollars
34:31
in production time. So what's it? What's it worth? So these are
34:35
things that you have to do. But and then but I've never had to
34:37
deal with that and then go act in a scene like emotionally, how do
34:44
you go? That was? It was a crime thing with the thing with
34:47
the press, it was an emotional scene on top of it. Yes,
34:50
it was just like do I ever ruing my lines at this point? Where's
34:54
the script? You know? So so I always like to ask this question
34:59
as well, well, especially when it's first time directors or you know,
35:05
producers, things like that. When I started out as a young director,
35:08
i'd walk on the set, I'd be the youngest person there. There'd be
35:12
much more experienced people there. And I got pushback from crew members, from
35:16
producers and from actors. Did any of that happen on this project or any
35:22
other project that you've worked on as a writer, producer, show runner or
35:25
director? And how did you deal with it on the day? Because you
35:30
know, I'm a Latino man, you know, but I can only imagine
35:35
being a female, first time showrunner slash actress, that there might be somebody
35:40
on set that'd be like, how the hell did this girl get this gig?
35:45
And I've been doing I worked with France as far a couple of back
35:47
at seventy two like that that kind of vibe. So how did was there
35:52
any situations like that? And if you did, how did you deal with
35:53
it? So people can learn how to deal with this kind of stuff?
35:57
Right? And I don't want to say this because they were an amazing crew,
36:01
but I think sometimes you kind of lean towards what you're used to.
36:07
And because it was my first time and I was a woman now, I
36:10
was younger, it was if I said something, you know, in the
36:15
beginning, they may not have taken what I taken whatever I said as this
36:21
is what we're doing, and they would refer to the DP or the director
36:25
at the time to like, oh, you know, kay said blah blah
36:30
blah blah, should we do this? It was like the second guessing of
36:34
it all. And I remember getting so frustrated about that in the beginning because
36:40
it felt like it was disrespectful and that they weren't respecting the position that I
36:45
was in. And I remember finally standing up for myself during the first week
36:51
of filming after you know happened how many times, and I think I had
36:54
to tell someone like, listen, this is how do you feel about it?
37:00
This is my show, and this is what we're doing. So if
37:02
I say we're not going to do this location, it's got to be here
37:07
or there or whatever it was about, that's what's going to happen. Because
37:10
nobody understands the vision of this story better than I do, period hard stock,
37:19
And to do that you run that risk because I am African American and
37:24
there is this stereotype of being seen as this angry black woman. But it
37:29
was almost like I had to stand up for myself and stand up for the
37:35
sacrifices that I made to get there right, because it really was. When
37:38
you think about it's still you on the line. It's still you know,
37:43
my reputation, my job, my money in my career, this my that,
37:45
and so regardless of how you feel about it, this is how it's
37:49
going to have to go. And you know, I implore other women to
37:52
stand up, or other minorities or younger people or new creatives. Stand up
37:58
for yourself because there was a reason why you're in that position, and don't
38:01
let anybody second guess you. That's I can only imagine the frustration of that,
38:07
especially, but I'm so glad that you actually stood up for yourself on
38:09
that because if not, that's a cancer that will destroy the production. If
38:15
because if they feel they'll test you, they'll push to see how far they
38:19
can push, and it's either consciously or subconsciously, and they're gonna go,
38:24
oh, she's a pushover. I can do whatever I want. And that
38:27
whole thing becomes a fiasta. And then you got to try to reel it
38:30
back in after it's already gone haywire. It's like it's not gonna work now.
38:37
Is there is there something you wish someone would have told you at the
38:42
beginning of this process. Like, girl, this is what you need to
38:46
watch out for. I know there's a list of things, but what was
38:50
the one thing you wish someone would have told you? Learn budgeting? Take
38:54
the time, yep, I don't care if you got to do a line
38:58
producer class or do a movie magic budgeting seminar, whatever it is. Learn
39:04
as much as you can about budgeting and line producer before you do your first
39:10
project, and of course hire a competent line producer. But you need to
39:15
know it for yourself. You need to know how budget's work. You need
39:19
to know what this cash flow is. You need to know you know what
39:22
you're supposed to be seeing, what you're supposed to be checking off every week,
39:27
what these deliverables from your producers are, from your departments are supposed to
39:30
be. Like, learn the process because it's it can hurt if you don't,
39:37
and you'll figure out either sooner or later on the banking of it,
39:40
it's going to hurt. So learn that process before you go into it.
39:45
And it also had because you your money basically was on the line. If
39:50
you didn't know that, it was going to fall into your bank account eventually,
39:52
So you've better learn the budget. We'll be right back after a word
39:58
from our sponsor and now back to the show. Absolutely exactly. And even
40:07
if you have you know, a dea where it doesn't the studio is going
40:12
to look at you if the budget goes on and then she knows that they'll
40:16
give you that position again, we'll get around town, will get around town
40:21
real quick, like, oh no, she goes over budget, she goes
40:23
over time. She's she never finished done. You're done exactly. So learn
40:29
the process before you go into it, I mean, and budget it out
40:34
all the way to end to post and talk to your post people. Also,
40:39
this is another gem. Have post production involved in pre production preach,
40:46
have them in the meeting. I wanted to have them in its all meetings,
40:50
like bring them in early because that wouldn't make me money too. I
40:54
tell everybody I've had full episodes dedicated to people like get if you can afford
41:00
the higher post supervisor, get them on in pre pro at minimum higher post
41:06
supervisor and just pay them to consult a workflow for you so you know how
41:12
to because I know, like, what did you shoot on by the way,
41:14
what camera was it? Do you remember? Was it red or Alexa
41:17
or it was an Alessa. Oh okay, got it? The name shot
41:22
out. So if you're shooting a luxA depends on what file format you're shooting
41:25
in a lux If you're shooting raw, you're shooting four K raw. If
41:28
you shoot there's a lot of different things, So that determines how much a
41:32
much pipeline you need to kind of push it, and like who's your editing
41:37
system, what editing system you're using? Can editing system handle this? Are
41:39
you doing this offline and online? And then are there any visual effects involved?
41:44
If there is? Even if it's like what, you don't waste money?
41:47
It hurts. We wasted so much money shooting things on green that didn't
41:53
need to be shot on green you know what I mean? And a post
41:57
supervisor would have told us that, and pre production or or VFX and or
42:04
a VFX supervisor could told you, no, you don't need to do that
42:07
on green screen, and green screens for people who don't know how to shoot
42:09
green screens is just more costly because if you don't know how to shoot green
42:13
screen, that it's gonna cost you a lot more money to fix it and
42:15
post, because I mean, you have to make roto. I had a
42:17
green screen come in with this is what they did. I swear to God
42:20
and you might get you might understand this, hopefully you do. You know
42:22
green right, green screen has to be one color, four green, four
42:27
different greens taped together in the middle of a sword fight, in the middle
42:32
of a sword fight, like so dark light this that, and I'm like,
42:37
what do you like, can you fix this? Like, oh no,
42:42
no, away a rat. You're not Peter Jackson. We're not gonna
42:46
roto every frame. You don't got that kind of money like it. But
42:52
that's those kind of little mistakes are so costly. And if you just hire
42:55
somebody at the beginning to either guide you through it or literally take you through
43:00
the entire process all the way through, man, it saves you so much
43:02
time and money at the end. That was one of the gems that I
43:07
learned. And my post production supervisor, Tracey Kinser, she saved my life.
43:12
She came on after we were done, which was my fault, and
43:15
that's why I say it was one of the biggest things that I learned.
43:19
But without her, and because she's such a you know, she's twenty years
43:22
in the game, we wouldn't have survived, you know, because she actually
43:29
made sacrifices to bring Covenant to life because we needed you need someone to be
43:35
able to take that train now that you're done and completely finish the show.
43:40
And she had the sound design, she had the colorist, you know,
43:45
with the what is it called when they had to check their quality? Oh,
43:51
that would be qut C for everybody. Her eyes, her eyes just
43:57
bulged out. If you're listening, her eyes just bulged her head because QC
44:00
makes everyone tweak a little bit. Anybody who understands what QC is, which
44:05
is a short it's short for quality control, which if you send your show
44:08
to a post house, which generally by the network will tell you you got
44:15
to send it there and has to pass QC from there before it airs,
44:17
they will find something. Always always it's I've never almost twenty five years of
44:25
this business doing that number ones that I get it's fine, never once because
44:30
they have to justify their job, so though to put in the stupidest stuff,
44:36
you're like, what, it was such a time because men she managed
44:40
ch see thank you hery Oh my gosh. It was one of those things
44:45
where without her, I don't know if it would have you gotten on air
44:50
because she was just a life favor. So yes, Chucy is the beast,
44:53
and we I know, for each episode it was like two or three
44:55
passes back and forth, back and forth. It's QC. Oh, it's
44:59
a glimmer of white light in the corner and you speaking away of the scene.
45:05
It is, but it's like those kinds of things that we had to.
45:07
Yeah, we had to. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
45:12
give you a I'm gonna give you a little bit. And you might know
45:14
this already, but this is a gem for you. In the QC process,
45:19
there's two magical words that gets you out of fifty to sixty percent of
45:24
those problems. It's called creative intent. Okay, all you have to say
45:32
is creative intent. And unless it's something technically like that little shimmer, creative
45:37
intent. I'm not saying that it's God was looking down that did the little
45:44
shimmer that was the part of the scenes. Creative intent. So if I
45:46
mean, unless there's like a cable in the shot of the boom and the
45:50
shot, those things you can't say creative intent about. But generally speaking,
45:52
creative intent gets you out of a lot. So everyone listening. If you
45:55
ever have to go through the QC process as a direct creative intent, you
46:00
about about fifty percent of the stuff. They can't. The kids they can
46:01
argue it, they can't. I wrote it down. I was like,
46:05
remember that's just an og post supervisor's trick. Creative intent. I was working
46:10
with Lions Kate for theatrical and they would bust out stuff and I'd be like,
46:15
creative intent, director said, creative intent, and they're like really,
46:17
I'm like, yep, creative intent, all right, they can't because QC
46:22
can keep you from meeting your deadlines and then other thing and I'm assuming and
46:27
I'm assuming you're paying for QC or is this studio? Oh of course,
46:30
So then it's just and it's not cheap, and it just but you know
46:36
what, because before it was a person sitting there doing QC. But now
46:38
they'll run it through a computer, an AI system, and the AI will
46:42
just start poking things out. They'll spit out a report and that's what they'll
46:45
set into and then somebody might eyeball it. Because before become that old,
46:51
it was all somebody sitting down watching it and that's their job to just catch
46:54
any little issue where now it's so technical that even if a pixel is off,
47:01
they'll kick it back to you because it ran through this system, so
47:05
and it will charge you ridiculous amounts of money to do it right, and
47:08
then you have to get it just so people know. After that, there's
47:13
all these other legal deliverables that you need, the paper, insurance and music
47:19
and tracks contracts and the title reports and all these things. Oh no,
47:28
it's and you didn't know about any of this walking into it. You know,
47:34
my the EO, the eye insurance, the EO insurance, everything was
47:43
a bill. I was just like, what is that? Like five thousand
47:47
dollars for you no insurance? Like what what? What? Yeah, it's
47:52
and these this is stuff. This is not the creative fun stuff that they
47:55
talk about at film school. This is not this is but this is the
47:59
realities of the film business. Even on a show like yours, which you
48:02
essentially were doing an independent show with an output deal within that which there aren't
48:08
a lot more of these kind of shows being made to it because content,
48:13
they need content at an affordable price to hit certain markets. So it's not
48:17
all going to be games of throne breaking bad style shows. It's going to
48:22
be this kind of it's essentially an indie You did an indie show, essentially
48:27
with an output deal, with an output deal. And the crazy thing about
48:32
it is now that it's there, It's like, now you have to start
48:38
to think about what you want to do next. And I do realize that
48:43
it was We've done this independently. It was great, Ashley. I'm doing
48:46
another independent film. But as far as the series, you want the support
48:52
of a studio or a network so that you can put out the best product
48:57
possible. I mean personally, I do, and they could be different for
49:00
every person. So yeah, it was I was thrust into it without knowing
49:07
a ton of start and don't me start out working and workers comp and union
49:14
rates and all right, No, no, no, it's there's so many
49:19
because everyone's got their hand out. Everyone has got their hand out, from
49:23
the payroll company to the workmen's com to and then you get into posts and
49:28
you've got all of this stuff and says if you don't understand what's going on,
49:31
they could take you for a ride. Oh my god, cringes of
49:36
it all Ah for fringe, Oh my gosh, No, no, no,
49:42
it just too many projects came to me series and shows that had been
49:47
they basically had been completely taking advantage of and stolen their budgets. We'll be
49:53
right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show
50:02
by somebody who didn't know what they were doing it. They did the good
50:05
talk, and they couldn't get it past the finish line. Then they show
50:07
up to me, they're like, we had fifty thousand, but we got
50:09
five. Now can you finish it. I'm like, son, I'm a
50:12
bit. I can't help you. Man. You gotta go out and get
50:16
some more money. I can't do this. That's a lot of work,
50:20
and that is that's what in some ways, and we'll talk how it offline
50:24
happened happened with me, But you have to you have to push through it
50:30
because now how some of these contracts work. If you don't and I'm choosing
50:36
my words carefully, they can put like a lane on your copyright. Oh
50:39
absolutely no, yeah they are. It's putting the putting a show like this
50:44
together. I'd imagine that the kind of deal that you had is like,
50:46
look, we're giving you the opportunity. This is how much money you and
50:50
I exactly the same deal I did for my show that they gave me to
50:54
produce. I wasn't the creative behind it, but I was the director and
50:59
complete production of it all. And this is the dollars, this is where
51:04
it needs to be at the end, go to it. And that's what
51:08
we did. And again, I had twenty years behind me at that point
51:15
and I and it was still probably one of the toughest productions that ever had
51:17
to do. Shooting ninety six pages in four days and never going over ten
51:22
hours, and never going over ten hours. Oh my gosh, the costume.
51:24
You don't want to have to pay overtime. And then you know,
51:28
COVID was an additional bill. Oh that was a whole other I can't even
51:31
imagine having to deal with COVID as well. I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted,
51:37
Kay, And I didn't even shoot this. And you have that your COVID
51:42
compliance officer, your COVID nurse, your COVID this, your COVID PA is
51:45
just more money to spend and all the tests you know, and all the
51:51
ppe it's just it's insane. So allri so the whole thing is done,
51:57
you put it out there and then you it looks like you're doing a new
52:00
show called gas Is it called Gaslight? Yeah? So gas Light is my
52:06
baby actually wrote that before Covenant, and that's what got me in the room
52:12
because they had seen some clips of gas Light, and I love the concept.
52:20
It's a it's also an anthology, but it's a darker Tales from the
52:22
Crypt. It kind of meets a relationship, dark therapist kind of world where
52:31
we talk about different things, not only gaslighting, but Stockholm syndrome and the
52:38
whole pick me phenomena. We take these social issues and we thrust them into
52:44
a theatrical kind of showing, which this dark, crazy therapist narrating way.
52:51
It's fun it's dark, it's funny, it's scary. And you're done.
52:55
You're done with production of that one, right I'm done with the pilot it
53:00
okay, So you're still so you're still imposed on it's just an anthology series,
53:05
so it's not so you're you're in the midst of this right now.
53:07
I'm in the midst of that. And the crazy thing is because I also
53:13
am doing a true crime psychological thriller Felt a feature found at the same time,
53:19
I'm kind of juggling both of those, so I'm trying to make sure
53:23
that we can go into pre production for the thriller in November so that we
53:29
can shoot in December and get that done hopefully for the years out. But
53:36
that's my first feature, Frown, which is the psychological crime thriller, which
53:40
is the new genre for me. But I'm excited, right, I'm exhausted
53:45
you, I mean, I hustled, But Jesus listen, I told you
53:50
I'm on the taking time clot So y'all have time. Guys have time,
53:52
y'all don't have the pressure. Why I got to sit down and maybe it's
53:57
I'm white things done and the So was it easier to get I mean,
54:02
obviously it was easier to get Gaslight off the ground because that's another your showrunnerund
54:07
that one, you're a creator and that one as well. When you walked
54:09
into that one. How is it different with that because we shot that before
54:17
Covenant, So that was basically like doing a short down. It's like,
54:22
you know, we're gonna come in here, we're gonna be on a location
54:24
two days. You know, everybody's my friend, the actors, the you
54:30
know, directors, So it was a much different experience. You know,
54:34
we're just all having a good time. We're knocking it out, we're getting
54:36
it done. It just ended up looking and amazing and it's something that I
54:42
can't wait for the world to see. But Covenant was just like you know,
54:46
it's one hundred people in the crew's we had one hundred and some gast
54:50
member, so it was a different beast. It was a lot on the
54:53
line. Like Gaslights, the pilot budget was twenty thousand dolls. Mm hmm,
55:00
yeah, got it. It was more of the of the in the
55:05
route. But what I want to do with Gaslight, and we're in talks
55:07
now, is to have a full eight episode season. So I'm praying on
55:12
that. I should hear about that next week, So good luck to you.
55:19
I'm into Solution pretty soon. So what was your biggest takeaway from the
55:22
whole Covenant experience? Do you know? I'm all about preparation and making sure
55:34
that you're prepared mentally, physically, psychologically, emotionally for whatever you endeavor you
55:40
take. But there's some endeavors that you can't prepare yourself for. But if
55:47
you're ever in the middle of this storm, keep yourself grounded on the principles
55:52
that you came into it with. Keep a level of integrity, because I
56:00
think that gets lost sometimes in a storm. Keep a lovable honesty, and
56:07
don't forget why you came into this, because after Covenant, it almost made
56:13
me want to give up on this industry, on the process, on TV,
56:19
film, whatever. I was sick of it all. But remember what
56:22
you came into it for. And so I think one of the biggest takeaways
56:25
for me is learning that I can persevere through the through the storm, through
56:32
the darkest of clouds, I can persevere through that. And there's a really
56:38
beautiful little passage where they talk about a hummingbird that is perched on like a
56:45
tree in the middle of the humming in the middle of a hurricane. But
56:49
the bird is still able to sing, and you know because they know where
56:53
their joy and their peace comes from, which is from within. So no
56:58
matter what's going on around you AnyWho. So that is my biggest takeaway,
57:02
to know that I can persevere through and maintain who I am and that way
57:08
I can keep going for the next thing. I feel that that's beautiful,
57:13
by the way, but I also feel that we as creatives, especially when
57:16
we're thrown into those scenarios which I completely feel you're paying because I've gone down
57:21
that road a bit, not as extreme as you, though. I had
57:25
my own extreme versions of almost making a movie for the Mafia when I was
57:29
twenty six, and you know, doing all of that for twenty million dollars
57:34
and I met all the biggest movie stars in the world, and that's a
57:36
whole I wrote a book about that, So I've been I've been down that
57:38
road. I've been down that road as well. But I feel that when
57:44
we go through these things in life as a creative, especially as as creatives,
57:49
we are being tested to see we're also being tested not only by the
57:52
business but by life to see how far we can do. We got the
57:57
medal to keep going? Is this really for you? And you know what,
58:01
this business isn't for everybody. I'm sure you even on your journey,
58:06
I'm sure you've seen people just fall away. Yeah, follow it because it's
58:10
just so hard and unless you are just pig headed or persistent to the ump
58:17
degree, or it brings you so much joy inside that you have to do
58:22
this regardless of the walls in front of you, then that's a different conversation.
58:29
But it sounds to me that you as you said at the beginning of
58:32
the conversation, you walked in as a babe and walked out as adult because
58:37
and I'm sure there's shrapnel all over you. You got, yeah, you
58:43
got war wounds. You got like the skin is tighter and tougher now,
58:46
like you could take on you know, much more now because your battle art
58:51
and then some absolutely yes so, and I'm looking forward to it. I
58:58
wasn't at first, but now I'm looking for to that next step, looking
59:00
forward to season two, you know which I'm still writing. I'm looking forward
59:05
to this film. I'm looking forward to yas light and now now I can
59:08
see the joy through the darkness. But you know, you have to be
59:13
and you've got to build up that skin if you want to survive in this
59:16
business. Go on to limpit on the metals. And this is the thing
59:21
that we are. There's this insanity and I call it the beautiful sickness because
59:25
that's exactly what we have. It's a beautiful sickness. Nobody else goes into
59:30
war, into hell, into a hurricane, all mixed into one, walk
59:35
out at the other end. And at first you're like, I don't want
59:37
to do that again, But like two days later, you're like, you
59:38
know, it wasn't really not badly. I think I want to go do
59:43
that again. There's an insanity of being an artist and being a creative,
59:46
and even at those extremes, it's just from people. Because my wife is
59:52
outside the business and she looks as she's like, you guys are crazy.
59:58
We'll be right back after word from our sponsor, and now back to the
1:00:05
show, like you guys are really insane. Like that, it doesn't make
1:00:12
any right, and we do it again and again to ourselves, again and
1:00:15
again and again. Where I had I had had one person on the show
1:00:19
years ago, a little while ago, and they said they bet the farm,
1:00:23
essentially the whole house, everything on this independent film. And they had
1:00:29
seven kids. Like it's one thing when you're younger, you got nothing going
1:00:32
on, but you got seven bet the whole thing bombed, just went bankrupt,
1:00:38
moved back in with the parents, took them seven years to get back
1:00:43
out. But first thought that came into that guy's head when the movie didn't
1:00:50
do well, I will ever get to direct another movie again. By the
1:00:55
insanity, because you love it. It's like a crazing it psychologically attacked that
1:01:01
it's business and you know you love it. It's it's it's it's an insanity,
1:01:07
dude, Yeah, it's no, it's an insanity. The normies,
1:01:09
as I call them, they don't understand. They don't understand. People outside
1:01:14
the business don't understand the insanity because we're carnival folk. We've ran away with
1:01:17
the circus, right, and you don't know how much money that you know,
1:01:23
I've spent on investing in these projects, and it's just you know,
1:01:29
you go. I keep telling my friend, you know, I don't mind
1:01:30
gone broke over and over and getting it back and because this is how much
1:01:36
I love the art and it pays off. I'm not saying that it's been
1:01:38
all bad, but yeah, that's how much we're attached. We don't mind
1:01:44
risking at all, no question. Now I'm gonna ask you a few questions.
1:01:47
Ask, oh, my guests, what advice would you give a screenwriter
1:01:52
or filmmaker trying to break into the business today or a class. Make sure
1:01:58
that your scripts are tight, make sure that your structure it's tight. Make
1:02:02
sure that you have done all the work leading into it that you have done
1:02:07
so that those characters and that show can sing when it's put on camera.
1:02:14
You know, and I think a lot of people because you can come up
1:02:19
with a story doesn't mean you write a script or a script are two different
1:02:22
things. And so I would say, hey, make sure you have done
1:02:28
all the preparation, and now that you've done the work, make go out
1:02:32
there and do it. Don't wait on someone to give you a yes,
1:02:37
because, like I said, with gas light and checklists and you know,
1:02:39
doing film festivals before Covenant, you don't wait on the yes from the industry.
1:02:45
If you have a budget to do something smaller, go ahead and do
1:02:50
it. Get your vision out there, because that's what's going to put you
1:02:53
in front of people. They'll wait on somethey to validate you and say that,
1:02:57
Okay, yeah, you're talented, you can handle this. Because I
1:03:00
was out pushing myself before anyone believed in me. Believe in yourself. Don't
1:03:06
wait on the yes, prepare and get it done. Now, what is
1:03:13
the lesson that took you the longest to learn, Whether in the film industry
1:03:15
or in life. Just because you have a certain set of principles, doesn't
1:03:23
mean everybody else does what in Olliwood's stopping. It's like stop thinking because you
1:03:31
know you go by, oh, this is the right thing to do.
1:03:37
That that's going to be you know, someone's goal. They're going to to
1:03:42
gravitate to doing something honest or right. And I'm not saying that. I
1:03:45
feel like I'm putting the dark paddle things, but just just one of the
1:03:50
things, NI listen, just because you your default is a certain set of
1:03:55
morals doesn't mean that the person next to you has that same set or even
1:04:00
defaults to even close to where that is. Uh, this business is not
1:04:03
Look, look, this whole show is about the honesty of the business.
1:04:06
Because that's when the reason I started this show, because there was nobody.
1:04:10
There was nobody telling the truth. Everybody was just like, let's talk about
1:04:14
this, and let's talk about that. It's all fun. And you know,
1:04:16
I had this adventure and then I was on set with with you know,
1:04:19
Scorsesey, and I'm like, no, that's great, that's lovely.
1:04:23
We love to hear those stories. But this conversation is as raw and true
1:04:28
as it gets. And this I hope terrifies somebody, and it should.
1:04:34
I hope it terrifies somebody to get into action if they truly want to go
1:04:39
down this road or if somebody's already going down this road to understand what is
1:04:44
ahead for them, because I always use the analogy it's like, it's like
1:04:47
you're in the ring with Mike Tyson in eighty six and you're gonna get punched,
1:04:53
and most of us and when we walk into this business don't even know
1:04:56
where in a ring, let alone in a fight, right, And all
1:04:59
I'm s is protect yourself. Let me go into it with a level of
1:05:03
protection so that you can maintain the vision of your project. And so that's
1:05:10
the biggest thing that I've learned too. And last question, three of your
1:05:15
favorite films or shows of all time? Oh, I have a top vibe
1:05:20
in both. So we'll do film when genre. Don't want to start with
1:05:29
Okay, so this is a I'm a fantasy period piece girl. So one
1:05:34
of my favorites from lay alas We Babe is Willow Why Something. I will
1:05:44
always always love that movie. I just it takes me back and I think
1:05:50
it was for this time I was beautifully done, So I'll always gravitate to
1:05:56
that drama. Now it's kind of changing, but back in the day,
1:06:03
one of my favorites was absolutely Brave Heart, So good, so good at
1:06:12
the end when he yields out the freedom. And the fact that he directed
1:06:15
it and was in it the whole time too, was really really impressive.
1:06:19
Also, Apocalypto is such an underrated film that Mel did. He didn't act
1:06:27
in it. Damn that thing was genius. It was genius, brilliant,
1:06:32
brilliant. So to jump into a whole nother genre though it's a comedy,
1:06:41
Boomerang changed my life. I'm just like Boomera, what is my all time
1:06:46
favorite comedy film. It made me, It made me see myself in a
1:06:50
different light as it you know, I'm like, oh, I can go
1:06:54
live in New York and I can work for it. And in fact,
1:06:57
that's why I got into marketing, because I saw Marcus Graham being the head
1:07:00
of this you know, advertising firm, and it was just it was so
1:07:05
aspirational, but it was also a great story at the same time. And
1:07:10
I can almost quote it throughout the eighteen million times. So bull Range is
1:07:14
one of my absolute favorite. Yeah, and there was that young actress that
1:07:17
never went anywhere, Halle Berry I think her name was. She never did
1:07:20
much after that thing. Miss Robin Gibbons. MS Robin Gibbons and Chris a
1:07:27
young Chris Rock Rock, Martin Laurence, Ed David, Eddie Murphy. Of
1:07:33
course it was Grace Jones, Earth, the Kids, Oh my god,
1:07:40
everybody was in that. Then good PM down song was in there. In
1:07:45
terms of that, yes, oh gosh, I love love love John Woods
1:07:51
shows in there, so I forget to name him, but yeah, it
1:07:54
was a it was a changing kind of moment, coming of age, move
1:07:59
from I love it, Okay, listen, it has been an absolute pleasure
1:08:03
talking do you. Thank you for being so raw and honest about your process
1:08:06
and where can people reach out to find out more about what you're doing.
1:08:10
Do you have a website? Absolutely? Please go to Road one on six
1:08:15
films dot com. You can see the projects that have and what's coming up
1:08:18
and get more info about the movie Agent Right, Dark Justice and Gaslight that
1:08:25
is on the way. You can also find me on Instagram at ka y
1:08:30
e dot s. Okay, it has been a pleasure, my dear.
1:08:33
Thank you again so much for coming on the show and for all your knowledge
1:08:36
bombs that you dropped on everybody today. I appreciate you, my dear.
1:08:41
Oh You're so welcome. I love being here. Love Oh, I got
1:08:44
to say one more thing. Sorry. Make sure you tune in to BET
1:08:49
because on October eleventh, the old will will be back in full effect,
1:08:55
the old woll On b e t from Sukharra Pierri and also check out Covenant
1:09:01
and any way well with All Black. It's still streaming and doing great.
1:09:06
If you haven't seen it, please get a subscription. Check it out.
1:09:11
It's it's a great show and I love those actors are phenomenal. Thank you,
1:09:15
my dear. I appreciate you. Yes, thank you. I want
1:09:20
to thank Key so so much for coming on the show and dropping her knowledge
1:09:26
bombs and sharing her experience with the tribe today. Thank you so much.
1:09:29
Kay. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this
1:09:31
episode, including how to watch her show, The Covenant, as well as
1:09:35
all the other things that she's doing, head over to any film also dot
1:09:40
com Forward Slash seven thirty four, and if you have it already, please
1:09:44
head over to Filmmaking Podcast dot com, subscribe and leave a good review for
1:09:48
the show. It really helps us out a lot. Guys. Thank you
1:09:51
again so much for listening to guys. As always, keep that hustle going,
1:09:55
keep that dream alive, Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to
1:09:58
you soon. Thanks for listening the Indie Film Hustle podcast at Indie Film Hustle
1:10:02
dot com. That's I N D I E F I L M h U
1:10:06
S t l E dot com.