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Inside The Data: How Does This Year's Eagles Draft Class Measure Up To Past Classes? · Inside the Birds: A Philadelphia Eagles Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, Welcome back to Inside the Data on Inside
0:12
Speaker 1: the Birds. I'm Jeff Mosher. I got Sam Finkle with me,
0:15
Speaker 1: And if you've been listening to this show long enough,
0:18
Speaker 1: you know Sam is our expert on all things analytics
0:21
Speaker 1: and data. And that's why we call the show Inside
0:24
Speaker 1: the Data, because Sam brings us inside all the great
0:27
Speaker 1: numbers and explains to them what they really mean. And
0:30
Speaker 1: that's for all of our new listeners who may not
0:32
Speaker 1: be familiar with the show, but excited. A lot of
0:36
Speaker 1: people are excited Sam about the Eagles draft for a
0:38
Speaker 1: couple of reasons. One, the draft is always exciting you
0:42
Speaker 1: usher in new players. The Eagles had some interesting picks.
0:45
Speaker 1: And two, there are all some sick, sick athletes that
0:49
Speaker 1: the Eagles drafted in this year's draft. Oddly enough, one
0:54
Speaker 1: of them isn't as much of an athlete as the rest,
0:57
Speaker 1: and we'll get to that, which is interesting because of
0:59
Speaker 1: where they picked them. But what did you What did
1:01
Speaker 1: you think overall of this draft class? Just give me
1:04
Speaker 1: your overall feel and then the athletic element of it.
1:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like this class. I think they did a
1:10
Speaker 2: pretty good job in addressing some of the needs and Honestly,
1:14
Speaker 2: I thought they did a good job not just prioritizing need,
1:17
Speaker 2: but also getting the best talent within that need structure.
1:21
Speaker 2: I thought it was a good balanced approach.
1:23
Speaker 1: I agree. You know, there have been times in the
1:25
Speaker 1: past when Adam and I have been doing draft coverage
1:28
Speaker 1: and you know, just to give an example twenty twenty now,
1:31
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts worked out really well. That was a surprise.
1:33
Speaker 1: But when guys got picked, where the information we were
1:38
Speaker 1: getting was that wasn't a guy, you know, like a
1:41
Speaker 1: Davion Taylor in the third round who had barely played
1:43
Speaker 1: any football, you know, using a third round pick on
1:45
Speaker 1: that guy, trying to think, you know, in the past
1:49
Speaker 1: drafts we got information, but this for the last few
1:52
Speaker 1: drafts the Eagles, it doesn't matter where the guy succeeds
1:55
Speaker 1: or not, so you can't always predict that. But the
1:57
Speaker 1: Eagles have picked the right talent at the right place
2:00
Speaker 1: for the most part. And so I think, how we
2:03
Speaker 1: even mentioned fifteen of their last sixteen picks in the first, second,
2:07
Speaker 1: and third round to become starters for them, So it
2:09
Speaker 1: just shows you that they're doing the good job. How
2:12
Speaker 1: about the athletic element of it, After we did all
2:14
Speaker 1: those shows illustrating all the athletes that you did with
2:18
Speaker 1: all your charts and grass to see what they did there.
2:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, athleticism is something we've really hammered
2:25
Speaker 2: home that the Eagles emphasized, and it's very clear in
2:28
Speaker 2: this draft that you know that's exactly what they do
2:30
Speaker 2: and that's their process and they like athletes.
2:33
Speaker 1: I don't blame them, Yeah, absolutely, especially on Day three, right,
2:39
Speaker 1: So you put together some charts. We did this thing differently,
2:41
Speaker 1: and I loved your idea where we compared the rookies,
2:46
Speaker 1: not necessarily to other rookies like we did in the
2:49
Speaker 1: draft class preview stuff, but to current Eagles players correct
2:54
Speaker 1: and sort of just to give an idea of what
2:56
Speaker 1: kind of brand of athletes rushering in and what they
2:58
Speaker 1: already have on the roster. What else went into this.
3:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I just think it's really important to start
3:04
Speaker 2: off before we even say that that these are the
3:08
Speaker 2: Eagles players as prospects. So it's you have to take
3:11
Speaker 2: out what they are today. I mean, inherently it's going
3:15
Speaker 2: to be part of our discussion because we have the
3:18
Speaker 2: benefit of that knowledge.
3:20
Speaker 1: Right.
3:20
Speaker 2: However, it's really important that when we're looking and comparing
3:23
Speaker 2: the guys, this was what they were viewed at as prospects.
3:27
Speaker 2: So I think just taking that, you know, understanding at
3:30
Speaker 2: the outset, I think it would really help with this
3:32
Speaker 2: analysis because all these players, you know, some of them grew,
3:36
Speaker 2: some of them you know, did not do as well
3:38
Speaker 2: in the league. You know, it's those things are really important.
3:41
Speaker 2: And the other thing that's important is not every player
3:43
Speaker 2: on the Eagles roster. For instance, Jordan Malatta is going
3:46
Speaker 2: to be on this because there was no combine score
3:50
Speaker 2: for them. So if you remember when we did this
3:52
Speaker 2: series last year, for whatever is returning, we really appreciate
3:55
Speaker 2: that obviously, and then also for those that you know
3:58
Speaker 2: are new to it. What we did is is we
4:00
Speaker 2: took the athletics score and the production score that's assigned
4:05
Speaker 2: by NFL, and the average of the last five years
4:08
Speaker 2: is the lines that they're compared to, and we split
4:11
Speaker 2: it into four quadrants. So then the quadrant in the
4:14
Speaker 2: top right that was blue chips, and that's the players
4:17
Speaker 2: that both have higher than average production and athleticism. Right
4:22
Speaker 2: there are gems which have high athleticism but low production.
4:26
Speaker 2: There's safe like floor players that have high production but
4:31
Speaker 2: low athleticism and then what we refer to as buss
4:34
Speaker 2: even though you know it's not necessarily the case, but
4:37
Speaker 2: they have low athleticism and low production scores. So that's
4:40
Speaker 2: really how this analysis came into being. We ran it
4:44
Speaker 2: last year, everyone seemed to enjoy it, so we just
4:47
Speaker 2: put a different spin on it this year. But it's
4:48
Speaker 2: the same analysis, absolutely.
4:51
Speaker 1: But I am going to have you when I pull
4:52
Speaker 1: up the sheets, just show everybody again because we got
4:55
Speaker 1: different colored lines. And I think the thing that to
4:58
Speaker 1: hit home with is what you said is we're not
5:00
Speaker 1: comparing the Eagles draft picks to their current players right now,
5:05
Speaker 1: but what they're current players tested at coming into the
5:09
Speaker 1: league to give a compare and contrast. So that to me, yeah,
5:13
Speaker 1: that that's important, all right, So why don't I go
5:15
Speaker 1: ahead and bring up the first of the draft the graphs,
5:20
Speaker 1: I should say, I'm going to allow it for this show,
5:23
Speaker 1: even though Adam and I don't like to do this
5:26
Speaker 1: until it's official, which is the putting in names of
5:29
Speaker 1: the rook the undrafted free agent class, you know, because
5:33
Speaker 1: they don't we don't know until they officially sign into many.
5:37
Speaker 1: But for the sake of this, that's fine. Like it's
5:40
Speaker 1: you know, if they back out, it's okay, We're just
5:42
Speaker 1: we're just comparing data and analytics here.
5:44
Speaker 2: Yes, and again we can qualify it as such that
5:47
Speaker 2: this is if they made, if they were on the team,
5:49
Speaker 2: if they've joined the team, this is where they are
5:51
Speaker 2: as prospects. So they're just fun to talk about. But
5:54
Speaker 2: I do think that caveat is very important.
5:56
Speaker 1: All right, So we have the tight end room. Okay,
5:59
Speaker 1: obviously the Eagles use the second round pick on Eli Stowers,
6:02
Speaker 1: just an incredible athlete in some capacities, especially the forty
6:06
Speaker 1: five and a half inch vertical, I think is what
6:08
Speaker 1: they have. So you've got the red intersecting lines and
6:12
Speaker 1: Eagles tight end group here. Explain the red intersecting lines
6:16
Speaker 1: and why they intersect at what looks like seventy two
6:20
Speaker 1: seventy three for production and seventy four ish for athleticism.
6:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the red lines represent just drafted players. So
6:28
Speaker 2: this is all drafted tight ends in the past five years,
6:32
Speaker 2: and it is just the average tight end had around
6:36
Speaker 2: the seventy five athleticism and a seventy two or whatever
6:39
Speaker 2: seventy three production. So that's that's just why they intersect there,
6:43
Speaker 2: and that's what creates our quadrants. But I think that's
6:47
Speaker 2: a really good way to start it. I also wanted
6:49
Speaker 2: to take a second and talk about Stours and his
6:53
Speaker 2: RIS score because I know that was something big that
6:55
Speaker 2: we talked about last year. And so Stowers scored a
6:59
Speaker 2: nine point four to two RIS out of a possible ten,
7:03
Speaker 2: and this ranked eighty six out of four hundred and
7:06
Speaker 2: seventy one tight ends from nineteen eighty seven to twenty
7:09
Speaker 2: twenty six.
7:10
Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty good a quadrant to be in there.
7:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's that's I mean, it justifies why he
7:17
Speaker 2: would be considered in that blue chip range, at least
7:22
Speaker 2: for drafted tight ends. What would be more interesting is
7:24
Speaker 2: when we go to the next chart, which is the
7:26
Speaker 2: purple lines, which is the top one hundred picks. If
7:29
Speaker 2: you're in a top one hundred picks, that's the average
7:31
Speaker 2: of the top one hundred picks the last five years
7:33
Speaker 2: by tight ends.
7:34
Speaker 1: So before we do that, I want to bring up
7:36
Speaker 1: Dallas Goddard here because it would look like Goddar and
7:39
Speaker 1: Stours are similar athletically, with Stours around eighty four and
7:42
Speaker 1: got here at eighty three. You often say your measurables
7:46
Speaker 1: count to your athletics score. Dallas is a little probably
7:49
Speaker 1: a bit bigger and longer than Stours, But I don't remember.
7:53
Speaker 1: I don't think he if you were to just take
7:55
Speaker 1: the athletic testing element of it, would he be that high.
8:01
Speaker 2: I don't think he would be as high. I think
8:03
Speaker 2: that definitely influenced it as eyes. Right, Yeah, I think
8:07
Speaker 2: that that's a really good point and just shows you
8:10
Speaker 2: you know that Stours is that kind of athlete. So
8:13
Speaker 2: for sure, Yeah, I.
8:15
Speaker 1: Don't remember what Dallas ran in the forty or I mean,
8:17
Speaker 1: I'm sure we could find it in a couple of
8:19
Speaker 1: seconds if we if we really wanted to. But the
8:23
Speaker 1: fact I was looking at his spider chart recently he has. Yeah,
8:26
Speaker 1: he did really well on the bench press. His weight
8:29
Speaker 1: was was good, his wingspans good, His vertical jump was
8:32
Speaker 1: seventy percentile, so that's pretty good. And his forty yard
8:38
Speaker 1: did he not run the forty Now all of a sudden,
8:40
Speaker 1: I can't find it. He did a good twenty shuttle
8:43
Speaker 1: he had.
8:43
Speaker 2: He didn't run it at the combine at least.
8:45
Speaker 1: Right because he's not very fat, that's not his thing.
8:48
Speaker 1: It wouldn't have helped him, but he did have good
8:50
Speaker 1: shuttle three cone things like that eight percent. So good
8:55
Speaker 1: athlete that's sort of like a deceptively good athlete. He is,
8:59
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred percent right and then really not
9:03
Speaker 1: deceptive for real life hours. It's pretty it's there and
9:05
Speaker 1: you'll see it, and I think Eagles fans will be
9:07
Speaker 1: pretty excited about it and when they see it on themselves.
9:10
Speaker 2: And they should be excited. He was my second favorite
9:13
Speaker 2: tight end in this draft class. I think he was
9:15
Speaker 2: pretty much consensus second best tight end overall, if not
9:19
Speaker 2: some analysts had him first. But you know, it's you know,
9:24
Speaker 2: it is what it is. You choose your flavor. But
9:26
Speaker 2: I got a really good tight end for sure.
9:30
Speaker 1: All Right, The purple intersecting lines, as you said, represent
9:34
Speaker 1: the top one hundred selected, So naturally the athleticism goes up,
9:41
Speaker 1: the production goes up because you're not taking you're taking
9:43
Speaker 1: from a small or more successful.
9:45
Speaker 2: Pool, right and so, and as you can see, even
9:49
Speaker 2: in that top one hundred stours is still in that
9:52
Speaker 2: blue chip range like that. If these are predictive, you know, variables,
9:57
Speaker 2: it does a pretty good job indicating that hours should
10:00
Speaker 2: translate to the next level. That's that's what it kind
10:03
Speaker 2: of indicates, assuming that you know there's correlation between those.
10:07
Speaker 1: So sure, sure, and there should be someone. I mean,
10:10
Speaker 1: I think it's fair. I mean, it's not like he's
10:12
Speaker 1: a seventh round pick who only ran a fast forty
10:14
Speaker 1: and jumped like. He was a very fascinating college player
10:18
Speaker 1: who transferred not only from schools but also positions from
10:22
Speaker 1: quarterback to tight end and showed that he had a
10:25
Speaker 1: real quick learning curve right to be able to play
10:27
Speaker 1: that position. Right. So for those who are just listening
10:32
Speaker 1: and not watching, just to let to repeat, Godar and
10:35
Speaker 1: Stours in this case are the only ones in the
10:38
Speaker 1: upper right quadrant known as blue chips as far as
10:41
Speaker 1: other Eagles tight ends, and really nobody else in that
10:44
Speaker 1: quadrant or in the other one gems. But in the
10:46
Speaker 1: lower left was what we call the bush Calcata and
10:50
Speaker 1: cam Lattu only because they did not they weren't productive
10:53
Speaker 1: in college. Cam Latu didn't catch the ball that much
10:56
Speaker 1: at Alabama. Calcutera did, but he did not Ton And
11:00
Speaker 1: of course his athleticism score is just okay.
11:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great way to put.
11:05
Speaker 1: It, right, all right, So those are the look at
11:09
Speaker 1: the tide ends. Let us go to wide receivers. All right,
11:15
Speaker 1: what jumps out? Did you hear? Sam? And again the
11:17
Speaker 1: red intersecting lines are. Now we're back to the all
11:21
Speaker 1: of the prospects drafted all the last five years, all
11:24
Speaker 1: the wide receivers, not just the top.
11:26
Speaker 2: One hundred, right. And it's interesting because if you see
11:30
Speaker 2: where the new addition Makayle Lemon is, he is in
11:34
Speaker 2: that safe area, right, And what that means is he
11:38
Speaker 2: had produced very well. It was one of the better productions.
11:41
Speaker 2: There's the only the best production I've ever seen in
11:44
Speaker 2: this is DeVonta Smith. He had ninety nine production, which
11:47
Speaker 2: you can see on this chart. But it also means
11:49
Speaker 2: his athleticism wasn't anything too crazy in terms of how
11:53
Speaker 2: they measure athleticism.
11:55
Speaker 1: Right, So let me ask you this, all right, this
11:59
Speaker 1: is just a pure speculation type thing that we can
12:01
Speaker 1: chop it up over. AJ Brown is in the upper
12:04
Speaker 1: right quadrant here. He tested really well athletically, he was productive.
12:07
Speaker 1: No surprise that AJ Brown is considered blue chip in
12:10
Speaker 1: these quadrants. Same thing with Hollywood Brown, right. Good explosion
12:14
Speaker 1: in college at Oklahoma, Eli Moore explosion production at Mississippi
12:19
Speaker 1: with AJ Brown gone, and Elijah Moore to me unlikely
12:24
Speaker 1: to make the team because as a fifth or a
12:25
Speaker 1: sixth receiver you got to play special teams and he doesn't.
12:29
Speaker 1: So let's just go on that assumption. Do you look
12:32
Speaker 1: at this Eagles receiver room and say, all right, you've
12:35
Speaker 1: got DeVante Smith and Mackay Lemon both falling below the
12:41
Speaker 1: average athleticism of every wide receiver drafted in the last
12:46
Speaker 1: I think you said five years, yeah, right, okay, which
12:48
Speaker 1: means it's when you go to the purple chart, it's
12:50
Speaker 1: gonna be even lower, right average athleticism from both of
12:54
Speaker 1: those and no AJ Brown. Does that mean that the
12:57
Speaker 1: Eagles are going to lack an explosive element to their game?
13:03
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think a lot. First Off,
13:07
Speaker 2: DeVonta Smith got dinged a lot because of his size
13:10
Speaker 2: and frame, correct, that is a big I think if
13:13
Speaker 2: he had like twenty more pounds on him, he would
13:16
Speaker 2: be clear in the blue chip like there would be
13:18
Speaker 2: no question. And I think Lemon is probably a better
13:23
Speaker 2: athlete than his testing resulted in. So I just I
13:25
Speaker 2: think that's an important thing to consider. Will they be
13:28
Speaker 2: missing something with AJ Brown? Yes? Like I just but
13:31
Speaker 2: you got to replace him in the aggregate, So I
13:33
Speaker 2: think getting Wicks involved, assuming he can make the roster
13:37
Speaker 2: and do a pretty good job there, you can try
13:39
Speaker 2: to replace aj Brown in the aggregate. You're gonna miss
13:42
Speaker 2: having that playmaker, but having a couple guys in the
13:44
Speaker 2: mix to fill in those targets that are gonna be vacated,
13:47
Speaker 2: that's what you're gonna.
13:48
Speaker 1: Hope to do. Yeah, makes sense. And I also think
13:51
Speaker 1: that DeVante Smith, despite not testing, while athletically does really
13:56
Speaker 1: superhuman athletic things as far as con That's what you're
13:58
Speaker 1: worried about. Right, if a guy's not great athlete, is
14:01
Speaker 1: he going to be able to stack corners? Yes, Devontae
14:03
Speaker 1: Smith can stack corners with actual with like ease, like
14:07
Speaker 1: some better than some of the best receivers in the league. Right.
14:10
Speaker 1: Can he make contested catches? Can? Does he play with
14:12
Speaker 1: good play strength? Yes? He plays with some of the
14:15
Speaker 1: best play strength and contested catchability in the league. So
14:19
Speaker 1: our eyes tell us that this is one of those
14:21
Speaker 1: cases where the athletic testing doesn't match the tape in
14:25
Speaker 1: a good way. He actually plays above the athletic measurable
14:28
Speaker 1: show you.
14:29
Speaker 2: And something I'd like to point out with Lemon. Is
14:32
Speaker 2: he I believe he had three drops in his entire
14:34
Speaker 2: college career or so, it was something like that. It
14:36
Speaker 2: was a crazy number. Yeah, and he brings a lot
14:41
Speaker 2: of value to the table, and there are things that
14:44
Speaker 2: he does that will help the Eagles a lot, especially
14:47
Speaker 2: once they move into this new offense that they're crafting.
14:51
Speaker 2: I don't think he would have done particularly well if
14:53
Speaker 2: they had ran last year's offense. I don't think he's
14:56
Speaker 2: built for that. But I think I'm optimistic. I mean,
14:59
Speaker 2: I'm usually optimistic in these things, but yeah, I feel
15:03
Speaker 2: pretty good about this.
15:04
Speaker 1: Agree. And you know, and again, if I throw in
15:07
Speaker 1: the fact that their top three receivers are going to
15:09
Speaker 1: be Smith, Lemon, and most likely Dantavian Wicks, it just
15:13
Speaker 1: doesn't on a chart look great athletically because Wix falls
15:16
Speaker 1: into our lower left quadrant for those listening and not
15:19
Speaker 1: watching under bus because he was not very productive at
15:22
Speaker 1: Virginia and he didn't I mean he's six foot what two,
15:26
Speaker 1: two hundred and ten pounds, So no, he did not
15:28
Speaker 1: run a four to three forty. That would have probably
15:31
Speaker 1: made him a first round pick if he did. So
15:33
Speaker 1: that's just the case here. But again, you also have
15:35
Speaker 1: a different offense that's hopefully going to exploit the middle
15:38
Speaker 1: of the field, and you won't need superhuman athletes all
15:42
Speaker 1: the time. I mean, the.
15:43
Speaker 2: Woman isn't perfect for that, yeah, I mean, but they
15:46
Speaker 2: absolutely yeah.
15:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree Lemon especially, Yeah, of attacking the middle
15:50
Speaker 1: of the field. All right, So now we change the
15:53
Speaker 1: look to reflect the last the top one hundred right
15:58
Speaker 1: receivers in the last five d And as we said,
16:02
Speaker 1: Smith and Lemon get lower, Wix gets a little lower,
16:05
Speaker 1: and even AJ Brown starts to straddle that line between
16:09
Speaker 1: athleticism and production coming out of college. So there would
16:13
Speaker 1: really be no Blue Chippers in this scenario because AJ
16:18
Speaker 1: Brown is on the line and he's not even going
16:20
Speaker 1: to be.
16:20
Speaker 2: An eagle, right, and he does have that asterix for
16:23
Speaker 2: a reason.
16:24
Speaker 1: I figured that was that one there.
16:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think people want to know where he fells
16:30
Speaker 2: and like, you know what, they're going to need to
16:31
Speaker 2: actually replace him, So I think that's important.
16:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting to see the guys in
16:36
Speaker 1: the gyms because of their they have, they do certain
16:39
Speaker 1: things in the upper left quadrant, which is because they
16:42
Speaker 1: have great athleticism or measurables, whereas they weren't very productive
16:47
Speaker 1: in college. You know, Johnny Wilson coming out of Florida State,
16:50
Speaker 1: they didn't have a very good offense that year if
16:52
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly. Plus he's a six to seven guy.
16:55
Speaker 1: It's hard to like make that kind of guy your
16:58
Speaker 1: high volume pass catcher for sure, but those measurables being
17:02
Speaker 1: six to seven influenced the athleticism score. Just like with
17:04
Speaker 1: Danny Gray, he runs a really fast forty. I think
17:06
Speaker 1: it was a smu Qus Watkins came out of Southern
17:10
Speaker 1: miss I mean, these aren't powerhouses, but they all do
17:13
Speaker 1: something different Like Quez and Danny ran really fast.
17:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good way to put it pointed out.
17:18
Speaker 2: And you know, I just I think it's important to
17:20
Speaker 2: realize there are different ways to get to that high athleticism,
17:24
Speaker 2: and I think size for Wilson and speed for the
17:26
Speaker 2: other two. I think that's really important to point out.
17:28
Speaker 2: And I appreciate you making that point.
17:30
Speaker 1: There you go, all right, this is another Now wait wait, wait,
17:34
Speaker 1: we got green intersecond lines.
17:36
Speaker 2: I forget that's top it's first round picks, first round only. Yeah,
17:40
Speaker 2: and since this was their first round selection, I figured
17:43
Speaker 2: bring that one back as well. Just for this sure analysis.
17:46
Speaker 1: And it just basically shows you the same thing that
17:49
Speaker 1: you know, the more, the better the athlete, because the
17:52
Speaker 1: now rower the pool of wide receiver, obviously, it just
17:56
Speaker 1: doesn't reflect as well for the Eagles guys. And you
17:59
Speaker 1: know that's why for most Eagles fans, Like if you
18:02
Speaker 1: were watching this and you had never seen the Eagles
18:04
Speaker 1: play er and you just became an Eagles fan, you'd
18:06
Speaker 1: be worried. But you've seen Devonte Smith play, so you've
18:09
Speaker 1: seen Hollywood Brown play. You know what they can do.
18:12
Speaker 2: And actually, I'm pretty comfortable calling Lemon a high floor player.
18:16
Speaker 2: I think he does bring a pretty Yes, yes, I
18:19
Speaker 2: think that actually kind of makes sense.
18:21
Speaker 1: I think I love the way you said that. I
18:23
Speaker 1: even mentioned this on the podcast, and I think some
18:25
Speaker 1: people got annoyed, but I think this is true and fair.
18:28
Speaker 1: I think he is a very high floor player, and
18:32
Speaker 1: I don't think his ceiling is much higher than his floor. Though.
18:36
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, He's going to be a
18:38
Speaker 1: number two. He's going to catch a ton of passes.
18:40
Speaker 1: He's going to be reliable, dependable, He's not going to
18:42
Speaker 1: be Jamar Chaks at least the projections like the athletic
18:46
Speaker 1: you just it was to be so hard to be
18:48
Speaker 1: that good because he's not gifted athletically in a way
18:51
Speaker 1: that the top three receivers in.
18:52
Speaker 2: The league are. But he's going to add a lot
18:55
Speaker 2: of value, and that floor is just as important, if
18:58
Speaker 2: not more. I think you want a guy, especially if
19:01
Speaker 2: you're replacing aj Brown, you want a guy with a
19:03
Speaker 2: high floor. You just want a reliable pass catcher.
19:07
Speaker 1: I totally agree with that. I'd be shocked if this
19:10
Speaker 1: guy was like not. I think he's pro ready. I
19:12
Speaker 1: think he should. We should expect pretty good production from
19:15
Speaker 1: him right away, as long as everybody takes to the offense.
19:17
Speaker 2: Agreed.
19:19
Speaker 1: All right, tackles, Now we are back to the red
19:21
Speaker 1: intercepting lines. This is uh, everybody drafted a tackle over
19:25
Speaker 1: the last five years or so. Yep, Lane Johnson probably
19:30
Speaker 1: looking around, you know that, like, uh, what do you
19:32
Speaker 1: call it? The John Travolta theme from Reservoir Dogs where
19:36
Speaker 1: he walks into an empty room and looks for everybody
19:42
Speaker 1: like there's no one in his vicinity.
19:44
Speaker 2: No, not even close.
19:46
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's so funny.
19:48
Speaker 2: It is.
19:48
Speaker 1: It's just funny because the Eagles have had so many
19:52
Speaker 1: great athletes right at the position. Lane Johnson, Jason Peters
19:59
Speaker 1: Sayamala was a good athlete right in size, Jason Kelsey
20:03
Speaker 1: tested Jurgons And then you go look at the tackles
20:05
Speaker 1: and all these guys are in the bus bus category.
20:10
Speaker 2: But they all have you know, specific traits and and
20:15
Speaker 2: none of them were like crazy high picks either, which
20:17
Speaker 2: is I think important to understand. Yeah, I think they
20:21
Speaker 2: all have traits that the Eagles were hoping to develop.
20:24
Speaker 2: I think without Stoubtland it's going to be a little
20:27
Speaker 2: more difficult, but I think that's a reality that you
20:30
Speaker 2: have to recognize. But I also don't want to discredit
20:33
Speaker 2: the new you know, offense and the staff. So I
20:37
Speaker 2: guess we'll have to wait and see how these guys develop.
20:39
Speaker 2: Because again, this is how they were as prospects relative
20:42
Speaker 2: to the rest of tackles taken over the past five
20:45
Speaker 2: years or so. So I think that's an important understanding
20:48
Speaker 2: and there is room to grow for a lot of
20:50
Speaker 2: these guys. And Lane Johnson's they don't fall off trees
20:53
Speaker 2: like that. There's they're hard to find.
20:55
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I mean the graph says it all. Here
21:00
Speaker 1: say of the chart, and by the way, and I'm
21:03
Speaker 1: just I just say it's to poke fun. But if
21:06
Speaker 1: you want to know how limited athletically markl. Bell is,
21:09
Speaker 1: you would think just on measurables alone, which feed, as
21:13
Speaker 1: we say, feed into your RAS or athletics score, you
21:15
Speaker 1: would think you could be higher than sixty five because
21:17
Speaker 1: the man is the size of a mountain and has
21:19
Speaker 1: the wingspan of stretched armstrong. But he's only at sixty
21:23
Speaker 1: five because he's just really not a superb athlete.
21:26
Speaker 2: Right, And you don't have to necessarily be at that size.
21:29
Speaker 2: I mean, there are some strengths, but there are limitations
21:32
Speaker 2: too if you're not that kind of athlete, especially at
21:34
Speaker 2: the next level.
21:36
Speaker 1: Yep. But can I also point out though that I
21:38
Speaker 1: thought it was the pick of him and the guard
21:40
Speaker 1: from Georgia will get into her interesting because they felt
21:44
Speaker 1: more like Steutland lineman, Like the whole point of running
21:47
Speaker 1: zone blocking outside zone is getting athletic linemen who move
21:53
Speaker 1: horizontally better than maybe north south. And it didn't seem
21:57
Speaker 1: like the Eagles really that mattered as much.
22:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I again, I think they valued traits and more
22:07
Speaker 2: more so athleticism. I want to say athleticism, but it's
22:10
Speaker 2: more of like size and tangibles. You know. It's it's
22:13
Speaker 2: that too, the size exactly.
22:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so that well we'll wait a minute.
22:19
Speaker 1: We got we've still got red lines here, right because
22:21
Speaker 1: now we're doing interior offensive line my fault, yes, all right.
22:24
Speaker 1: And I did want to bring this up. The kid Morris,
22:27
Speaker 1: who is the old Michael Morris, the Eagle six round
22:29
Speaker 1: pick is the only guy from the Eagles right here
22:31
Speaker 1: who is in the upper right quadront of blue chips.
22:33
Speaker 1: Because he did test really well, so I should be
22:36
Speaker 1: fair that pick. It might reflect the stoubtlessness ish pick
22:41
Speaker 1: because he is a big, big dude, but he's also
22:43
Speaker 1: he is very athletic and moves horizontally well.
22:46
Speaker 2: Well speaking of he scored a nine point nine to
22:49
Speaker 2: six out of ten ras, which was ninth out of
22:53
Speaker 2: one nine hundred and four guards from nineteen eighty seven
22:56
Speaker 2: to twenty twenty six.
22:57
Speaker 1: Wow, that puts you in a quite upper percentile one hundred.
23:01
Speaker 2: And what's interesting is that they got him very late,
23:04
Speaker 2: like it's it's it's incredible that he was a sixth
23:07
Speaker 2: round pick.
23:08
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I even spoke to an AFC
23:10
Speaker 1: personnel person about him and said, you know what, don't
23:13
Speaker 1: what what don't What didn't you like about him? What
23:15
Speaker 1: didn't teams like about him? And he he didn't say
23:17
Speaker 1: anything that was wrong. He just he was a one
23:19
Speaker 1: year starter. And you know that the NFL wants guys
23:21
Speaker 1: who are productive right and start more than that. And
23:25
Speaker 1: I think he was a one year starter if I'm
23:27
Speaker 1: not mistaken, And I guess you know, the guy pointed
23:30
Speaker 1: out that there was there was a lot of value
23:32
Speaker 1: at Garden. The third and fourth and fifth rounds guys
23:35
Speaker 1: were probably played a little bit more, and so he
23:38
Speaker 1: just wound up slipping. But no no one said like, oh,
23:40
Speaker 1: this guy's bad feet, or he can't pass protect or
23:44
Speaker 1: you know when you think sixth round or you think
23:45
Speaker 1: that there's major flaws. But I didn't get that.
23:48
Speaker 2: Yeah I didn't either. I I was surprised he was
23:51
Speaker 2: still there. And I honestly it's probably my favorite pick
23:53
Speaker 2: of the draft, just for value.
23:56
Speaker 1: For value, Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know that he
23:59
Speaker 1: was gonna end up keeping eleven linemen, right because.
24:04
Speaker 2: I do. But hey, I think it was a great,
24:06
Speaker 2: absolutely great pick value wise for sure.
24:09
Speaker 1: Sure, And obviously guys like Cam Cam Jurgen's high ATHLETICSIM score.
24:14
Speaker 1: We knew that. That's why they loved them as a
24:15
Speaker 1: Kelsey replacement. Drew Kendall Moore. I think Drew Kendall, Yeah,
24:20
Speaker 1: he's I guess he would tested fairly well. I forgot
24:23
Speaker 1: that he could. He was that decent of a tester
24:26
Speaker 1: to be.
24:27
Speaker 2: I kind of forgot too, and it was not that
24:28
Speaker 2: long ago.
24:29
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, all right, so now let's like narrow
24:33
Speaker 1: the pool. Oh no, we're gonna go to quarterbacks. Okay,
24:36
Speaker 1: good stuff, because.
24:37
Speaker 2: We're not gonna narrow it just because they weren't top
24:39
Speaker 2: one hundred picks or that makes sense. I just didn't
24:41
Speaker 2: think it was like, for the sake of this, everyone
24:44
Speaker 2: wants to see all the positions, so I agree from
24:47
Speaker 2: the top.
24:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially for six round guards. I get you, all right, quarterbacks.
24:56
Speaker 1: So interestingly, here Jalen Hurts in the upright quadrant.
25:00
Speaker 2: Coming out of college, all four quadrants represented.
25:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, we all four? How about that? It's almost like
25:05
Speaker 1: the Egles did that on purpose. And Cole Peyton I
25:09
Speaker 1: actually thought, because he's such a good athlete and he
25:12
Speaker 1: has good measurables, he'd be a little bit higher than eighty.
25:15
Speaker 1: Is it because he didn't do enough. He probably as
25:18
Speaker 1: a quarterback, did not participate in a ton of drills.
25:21
Speaker 2: Right, I believe you're right, but let me confirm that
25:23
Speaker 2: really quick. But yeah, that that makes sense because he
25:26
Speaker 2: is a pretty good athlete, so you would imagine. But yeah,
25:29
Speaker 2: he actually did a lot. He had a four five
25:32
Speaker 2: six forty one five seven split, forty vertical ten ten
25:37
Speaker 2: broad seven one two three cone and a four to
25:41
Speaker 2: three six twenty yard shuttle.
25:43
Speaker 1: So is we know he ran a great forty for
25:45
Speaker 1: his size. Is there something in there that was just okay?
25:51
Speaker 1: As far as the athletic testing.
25:53
Speaker 2: I mean, he was ranked the third best athletic quarterback
25:56
Speaker 2: in this draft. He's six two and five eighths to
26:01
Speaker 2: thirty two, his arms are thirty one and five eighths,
26:04
Speaker 2: and his hands are ten and a quarter.
26:06
Speaker 1: Okay, So his three cone I think was seven wins
26:08
Speaker 1: and that was not as highly ranked, and his twenty
26:11
Speaker 1: yard shuttle wasn't as good. Whereas his hand size and
26:14
Speaker 1: his forty are both in the ninetieth percent aisle and
26:17
Speaker 1: his weights in the eightieth percent aisle. He doesn't have
26:19
Speaker 1: the longest arms in the world. Who cares his quarterback?
26:23
Speaker 2: Right, exactly, But I just I think it's important with
26:26
Speaker 2: the contacts with him.
26:27
Speaker 1: If I would have, if you would have told me,
26:30
Speaker 1: like this graph, where is col Payton on it without
26:32
Speaker 1: me looking, I would have predicted him being in the
26:35
Speaker 1: gems with a high athletic score and very low to
26:40
Speaker 1: moderate production score because he's only started eleven games in
26:42
Speaker 1: his in his or thirteen games in his career, and
26:46
Speaker 1: he didn't throw the ball a whole lot, you know,
26:48
Speaker 1: I mean by comparison to some other quarterbacks.
26:52
Speaker 2: You're You're absolutely right. Couldn't have said it better myself.
26:57
Speaker 1: Trying to think if there's any other fl I mean,
27:00
Speaker 1: so the Taysom Hill thing has come up, Are you
27:03
Speaker 1: buying it?
27:05
Speaker 2: I don't know. I I could see it. Look there
27:08
Speaker 2: there is legitimate arguments for it, especially like red zone,
27:11
Speaker 2: like I think there's a lot of good arguments for it.
27:14
Speaker 2: Will they do it? I don't know. I don't think
27:17
Speaker 2: so Fush Merchant it's but Hurts is so good at it.
27:21
Speaker 2: I just I don't know.
27:22
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, I don't know.
27:25
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be shocked if he's in some gadget plays,
27:27
Speaker 2: or at least in some design plays. But I just
27:29
Speaker 2: don't think it's going to be used as much as Hill.
27:32
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think anyone really is ever going
27:33
Speaker 2: to be used it as a second quarterback. I also
27:36
Speaker 2: think it's interesting that he's a lefty like I think
27:38
Speaker 2: that's also an interesting consideration.
27:40
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, also given hurts Is, I don't know how.
27:44
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the right word is. Intense disposition.
27:51
Speaker 1: That's a very delicate way to say what I think.
27:53
Speaker 2: I think.
27:54
Speaker 1: I think that's what I mean. I'm really not trying
27:56
Speaker 1: to be I'm not trying to do a slick disc.
27:59
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not. I'm talking bad about it, but enough,
28:02
Speaker 1: like you said about him in the off season from
28:04
Speaker 1: other outlet, I don't need to add to that. I'm
28:06
Speaker 1: just saying, like when he's out there, he is very intense,
28:09
Speaker 1: like he's no nonsense right right. I'm not sure how
28:11
Speaker 1: he would feel, not that it's his choice, but how
28:14
Speaker 1: that would impact him to have some other guy coming
28:17
Speaker 1: on taking these I mean, Donovan hated it when they
28:20
Speaker 1: were doing it with Vic, and a lot of quarterbacks
28:22
Speaker 1: don't like it. They're trying to get into a rhythm,
28:24
Speaker 1: you know, it was I think for Breeze it was
28:27
Speaker 1: okay because it doesn't take much for Drew Brees to
28:30
Speaker 1: get into the rhythm, right. Yeah, And then after he
28:33
Speaker 1: left it made sense because they didn't have a quarterback
28:36
Speaker 1: to of Drew Brees caliber.
28:40
Speaker 2: I think Hurts would be unfhazed. I really do, just
28:42
Speaker 2: from his demeanor, his attitude. I think there's some legitimate
28:46
Speaker 2: arguments that he could get him out of rhythm. But
28:48
Speaker 2: I do think he probably won't care. Doesn't seem like
28:52
Speaker 2: the type of person that would. But maybe, you know,
28:54
Speaker 2: maybe you have a more.
28:55
Speaker 1: I guess I just would think in the first year
28:57
Speaker 1: of this offense, you want Jalen Hurts to get as
28:59
Speaker 1: comfortable rhythmic and it. If this were year three of it,
29:02
Speaker 1: I get it, right. But yeah, So that's what is this?
29:06
Speaker 2: What does this say to you about McKee? You think
29:08
Speaker 2: he's gonna stay on the roster? Do you think Dalton's
29:10
Speaker 2: not gonna I don't think they're gonna keep four quarterbacks.
29:12
Speaker 1: It's a very unusual situation, like you don't see too
29:15
Speaker 1: many number three quarterbacks with Andy Dalton's pedigree and resume.
29:20
Speaker 1: I think it's very possible McKee can still get traded,
29:23
Speaker 1: but I think it would have to take a team losing.
29:27
Speaker 1: I don't think it's just gonna happen now, I mean
29:29
Speaker 1: just because, right, I think a team would have to
29:32
Speaker 1: lose a quarterback in the preseason to an injury, which
29:34
Speaker 1: seems to happen every year.
29:36
Speaker 2: You're talking about like a Teddy Bridgewater situation, Yeah, something.
29:39
Speaker 1: Like that, or or maybe Anna Rodgers just never shows
29:43
Speaker 1: up to the Steelers, which seems pretty you know, likely,
29:47
Speaker 1: or at least a chance of that happening. But I
29:50
Speaker 1: don't think like the Jets are going to get to
29:55
Speaker 1: like three weeks in their training camp and decide, you
29:59
Speaker 1: know what, like Geno is not really playing well in
30:01
Speaker 1: club's not writing, let's go trade for you know, Like
30:03
Speaker 1: I think that would have happened already if if he
30:05
Speaker 1: was going to go to a team looking for a quarterback, right, So,
30:10
Speaker 1: but I could be wrong. We'll see, all right, line backer,
30:15
Speaker 1: and the Eagles didn't draft any.
30:17
Speaker 2: But potentially a UDFA.
30:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know how hard it would have been
30:23
Speaker 1: for those who can't see this graph and are just listening,
30:27
Speaker 1: It would have been pretty hard for the Eagles to
30:28
Speaker 1: draft an off ball linebacker who was going to have
30:33
Speaker 1: be higher on the chart than three guys they already
30:36
Speaker 1: have Campbell wanted smile mind and.
30:40
Speaker 2: For sure for everybody is in the not bust category.
30:43
Speaker 2: So and what's interesting, actually you made me think of
30:46
Speaker 2: that there was no safety measurables at all, or and
30:51
Speaker 2: there was none for any of the other guys that
30:54
Speaker 2: were drafted or you know, even the udfas, which I
30:57
Speaker 2: know how we feel about that. But right either right,
31:01
Speaker 2: I think.
31:02
Speaker 1: The Eagles would have had to take sunny styles to
31:05
Speaker 1: have gotten a Lotemacker that would be in that same
31:09
Speaker 1: group with I mean, I don't c J. Allen tested
31:11
Speaker 1: pretty well, I think, but I don't even know if
31:12
Speaker 1: it was as good as these guys. Yeah, awesome stuff. Hey,
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32:18
Speaker 1: that was a great I really enjoyed going through. That
32:21
Speaker 1: really does tell to me a good story Sam about
32:24
Speaker 1: what the Eagles have or don't have, or just how
32:27
Speaker 1: they compare athletically at certain spots. Obviously we couldn't do guys, Like,
32:33
Speaker 1: why couldn't we do it? U Ar Bernard, I'll let
32:35
Speaker 1: you tell the audience.
32:36
Speaker 2: Well, there was just no test. It's the same thing.
32:39
Speaker 2: There was no testing at all on that so makes sense.
32:43
Speaker 2: He also never played football.
32:45
Speaker 1: So yes, like he did do the pro day, so
32:48
Speaker 1: I know he tested there and there were some numbers available,
32:50
Speaker 1: but like the guy never played football, and it would
32:54
Speaker 1: have been a weird way to just kind of shoehorn
32:57
Speaker 1: him into a bunch of guys who were drafted who
32:58
Speaker 1: played football all their life.
33:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then Keishawn James Nuby Also there was nothing on.
33:04
Speaker 1: Him seventh round pick. So he's the edge rusher. Yeah,
33:09
Speaker 1: pretty productive, all right, So I was gonna ask, sorry,
33:14
Speaker 1: go for it.
33:17
Speaker 2: It was a seven point five to five out of
33:19
Speaker 2: a possible ten, which is five hundred and fifty fourth
33:21
Speaker 2: out of twenty two hundred and fifty seven defensive ends.
33:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a little undersized, correct, I think he's uh.
33:28
Speaker 1: I think his height, his weight, even his hand size
33:30
Speaker 1: are all a little undersized, if I if I recall correctly.
33:33
Speaker 1: But he's productive.
33:35
Speaker 2: His side score is very poor.
33:38
Speaker 1: Right right? And you said safety is also that's why
33:41
Speaker 1: there's no Cole was Newski. We didn't go through them
33:43
Speaker 1: because of that. All right, good stuff, awesome. I had
33:47
Speaker 1: fun with that. I was so I was going to
33:49
Speaker 1: ask you at the end to tell me which was
33:51
Speaker 1: your favorite value pick, but you already said more So
33:56
Speaker 1: I'll ask you this, what who is is Eli Stours
34:01
Speaker 1: in three years?
34:03
Speaker 2: You know? I just don't know how they're going to
34:06
Speaker 2: use him as my issue because they could easily just
34:09
Speaker 2: use him as a receiver. Like I just there's a
34:11
Speaker 2: lot of value, especially because he's not the best blocker.
34:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.
34:16
Speaker 2: So, I mean, like you almost want to say he
34:19
Speaker 2: could be like a pitman guy. That'd be kind of
34:20
Speaker 2: a fun comp But I don't know. I think more
34:24
Speaker 2: of what I see for him is the Eagles eventual,
34:29
Speaker 2: you know, definitely their twelve personnel tight end. He's definitely
34:32
Speaker 2: going to be used in that way. His role will
34:36
Speaker 2: be similar to Calcatara, I imagine, but I expect way
34:39
Speaker 2: more volume and I expect more success.
34:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure if Grant makes the team now.
34:44
Speaker 1: I don't think he does. Yeah.
34:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the Eagles drafted a better version of him. Yeah,
34:51
Speaker 2: a better athlete, a better pass catcher, and honestly even
34:54
Speaker 2: a better blocker, even though it's not Stour's skill set.
34:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he'll learn, You're right, He's he's gonna try,
35:00
Speaker 1: he's gonna learn. You know who he reminds me of
35:03
Speaker 1: right now, And I think you can appreciate this. I
35:05
Speaker 1: said this to some other people and they're like, oh,
35:06
Speaker 1: that would be terrible, But I'm just saying right now,
35:09
Speaker 1: I mean he can learn the blocking element of the game.
35:12
Speaker 1: Plus he's only been playing tight end a couple of years.
35:14
Speaker 1: It could be like, way better than this player. But
35:16
Speaker 1: when I think of a guy who's plays that position,
35:20
Speaker 1: who goes in in the flex splot spot and catches
35:23
Speaker 1: a lot of passes and does it really well, I
35:25
Speaker 1: think Mike Gisekee and I don't. And again people are
35:28
Speaker 1: be like, no, you don't draft Mike Jaesseki in the
35:30
Speaker 1: second round, although I do think Josecki was a second
35:33
Speaker 1: round pick, right, I have to look at Mike Joessekee's stats.
35:36
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I actually love that comp That's a
35:38
Speaker 2: really good one. I mean there's skill sets. I think
35:42
Speaker 2: Stours is more athletic.
35:44
Speaker 1: For sure. For sure. That's why I'm trying not to
35:45
Speaker 1: make it apples and apples, but more like, how do
35:48
Speaker 1: you use him? The Bengals don't use him on first
35:51
Speaker 1: down because why would you? Right, he's but he's a
35:55
Speaker 1: little bit bigger, he's six six, two forty five. But
35:57
Speaker 1: he's been a really good pass catcher. The guy at
35:59
Speaker 1: one hundred and twelve targets. In twenty twenty one with
36:01
Speaker 1: the Dolphins, he had seventy three catches for seven hundred
36:04
Speaker 1: and eighty yards. That year. Okay, if you got that
36:07
Speaker 1: in any of the first three years out of Eli Stowers,
36:09
Speaker 1: you've gotten the production you're looking for from a second
36:12
Speaker 1: round pick. So I mean, but I think his ceiling
36:16
Speaker 1: is higher than Mike Yasicki's.
36:18
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent agree, but that I actually really
36:20
Speaker 2: liked that. If you just get a super juiced athletic
36:24
Speaker 2: version of Mike Sicky.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, Sosicki's first year with the Bengals. By the way,
36:28
Speaker 1: eighty three targets, sixty five catches, six hundred and sixty
36:31
Speaker 1: five yards. So like, yeah, I think that validates my point.
36:34
Speaker 1: I don't know why some people kind of gets like
36:36
Speaker 1: on that, but.
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Speaker 2: No, I like that.
36:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that? All right. Good. I knew a
36:41
Speaker 1: Penn Stater, a fellow Penn Stater would appreciate it. Oh
36:44
Speaker 1: you couldn't tell, al right, So Sam, thanks for all that.
36:51
Speaker 1: We'll bring it back. We'll do this again soon as
36:54
Speaker 1: Ota start. We'll get into more data and analytics down
36:56
Speaker 1: the road with the Eagles. That's going to do it
36:58
Speaker 1: for this episode for Sam Fink.
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Speaker 2: Go.
37:00
Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Mosher. You've been watching Inside the Data on
37:03
Speaker 1: Inside the Birds