Latest / Story Magic / 86 - Perfectionism and hustle culture

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86 - Perfectionism and hustle culture · Story Magic

• 2:14
  Emily: Foreign.
• 2:27
  Rachel: Hey, writers.
• 2:28
  Rachel: Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
• 2:32
  Emily: I'm Emily.
• 2:33
  Rachel: And I'm Rachel.
• 2:34
  Emily: And today we're going to openly discuss a topic we've not discussed before.
• 2:41
  Emily: Because I had a question, and my question is, um, how hustle, culture, imperfectionism crossed.
• 2:47
  Emily: But before we get to that, that's not what we were supposed to talk about today.
• 2:50
  Rachel: We were going to talk about something different.
• 2:53
  Emily: So usually we just sit down, and we're like, hey, what do you want to talk about?
• 2:56
  Emily: And then sometimes we're like, hey, like, we should talk about this thing.
• 3:00
  Emily: Let's put together some notes.
• 3:01
  Emily: But, like, most of the time, we just kind of go up, you know, by the seat, reference the vibes.
• 3:05
  Emily: Yeah.
• 3:06
  Emily: And.
• 3:07
  Emily: And we have a wonderful virtual assistant.
• 3:09
  Emily: Her name is Leah.
• 3:10
  Emily: And we left.
• 3:10
  Rachel: Incredible. Oh, I'm obsessed with Aliyah.
• 3:13
  Emily: Absolutely.
• 3:13
  Rachel: So much for us.
• 3:14
  Rachel: She's wonderful.
• 3:15
  Rachel: Thank you.
• 3:15
  Emily: The best thing that happened in 2024.
• 3:18
  Emily: Um, and so we, with Aaliyah, are planning the Reclaim the Magic event, which, if you didn't hear, our ad, is coming up on February 1st, 2025.
• 3:27
  Emily: Um, and we'll talk about that more later.
• 3:29
  Emily: But she's helping us plan that.
• 3:30
  Emily: So we were like, okay, we're gonna plan out our podcast ahead of time.
• 3:34
  Rachel: So Aaliyah can make content for them.
• 3:37
  Rachel: So, like, we can be prepared for this event.
• 3:39
  Rachel: Right.
• 3:39
  Rachel: That we're hosting, which is a really big deal to us.
• 3:42
  Emily: We have not told Aaliyah yet, but we've sat down and done nothing we told her we would do.
• 3:49
  Rachel: I just looked at this list, and I was like, no, I don't want to talk about it.
• 3:53
  Emily: Because Rachel's brain, if it's bored, is.
• 3:56
  Rachel: Like, no, I don't wanna.
• 3:58
  Rachel: No. Like, we just did a. This is what we'll share.
• 4:01
  Rachel: So we were just guests on a podcast, the Always Right podcast.
• 4:06
  Rachel: Like, we recorded their episode, like, an hour ago, and they were.
• 4:11
  Rachel: We had a wonderful time with Carissa and Jamie, and we cannot wait to share that episode, which we will.
• 4:15
  Rachel: And it was all about anti hustle culture.
• 4:18
  Rachel: It was all about anti writing.
• 4:19
  Rachel: And then we were supposed to record an episode for our own podcast about culture.
• 4:23
  Rachel: And I was like, absolutely not.
• 4:24
  Rachel: I just talked about that for an hour.
• 4:26
  Rachel: I don't want to talk about it anymore.
• 4:29
  Emily: Sorry, Oliga.
• 4:32
  Rachel: Nope, that's not happening.
• 4:33
  Rachel: But we will link to that podcast because it was incredible.
• 4:36
  Rachel: When it comes out, be on our own so you can get a heads up.
• 4:42
  Emily: I love it.
• 4:43
  Emily: But long story short, we wouldn't have done that four years ago, three years ago, when we would have sat our bus down and been like, for what purpose?
• 4:59
  Emily: Why?
• 4:59
  Emily: So Aaliyah doesn't hate us.
• 5:01
  Emily: She doesn't care.
• 5:03
  Rachel: And it would not.
• 5:04
  Rachel: It wouldn't have been any near as brilliant as the things we talked about.
• 5:08
  Emily: That we're gonna talk about right now.
• 5:09
  Rachel: Yeah. Huh.
• 5:12
  Rachel: But, yeah, like, stopped showing up just to perform.
• 5:16
  Rachel: Which I really like is like, yeah, we're not just showing up to, like, check a box anymore.
• 5:21
  Rachel: We're like, no, honestly, it's like, this.
• 5:24
  Emily: Is where you and I catch up.
• 5:27
  Rachel: The only time we ever talk to each other is when we record podcasts.
• 5:31
  Emily: I mean, like, at least half the time.
• 5:33
  Emily: No, we spent 45 minutes just, like.
• 5:36
  Rachel: Chatting about our lives before we started recording.
• 5:40
  Rachel: And then I'm like, I'm tired.
• 5:45
  Rachel: I'm all my emotions are wrung out.
• 5:51
  Emily: All done.
• 5:51
  Emily: Okay, so we're gonna.
• 5:54
  Emily: We're gonna feed Rachel's curiosity brain.
• 5:57
  Emily: This is my question.
• 5:59
  Emily: Yeah.
• 6:00
  Emily: So I'm preparing slides for Reclaim the Magic, which is our five day event that's coming up where it's totally free, Totally free.
• 6:09
  Emily: Workshop link in the show notes to come join us.
• 6:12
  Emily: But we're going to talk a lot about, like, what is hustle culture and what is perfectionism?
• 6:16
  Emily: Perfectionism, and how do you start to recognize the ways that they show up in your life and particularly, particularly your writing life?
• 6:25
  Emily: And, like, how are they holding you back?
• 6:25
  Emily: And then give you some tools to start to rewrite those narratives?
• 6:29
  Emily: By narratives, I just mean, like, the voices in your head that are telling you you should be doing things one way.
• 6:35
  Emily: How do you rewrite that so that you're actually making progress, so that you're actually having fun, so that your writing feels fulfilling and joyful and successful again?
• 6:45
  Emily: And so we have two presentations.
• 6:47
  Emily: We have one on anti hustle, which breaks down hustle culture and what anti hustle culture is, and then one on perfectionism.
• 6:54
  Emily: And I was thinking today, I was like, I feel like we could draw a tighter connection between, like, how those two things influence each other and what I came up with.
• 7:02
  Emily: And just for folks who aren't familiar.
• 7:04
  Emily: Familiar with, you know, what hustle culture is, it's basically this idea that it's based in capitalism.
• 7:12
  Emily: It's this idea that humans, in order to be worthy of love and happiness and safety, need to produce a lot of stuff and make a lot of money and do it all really well, perfectly, you could say.
• 7:27
  Emily: And that if you don't if you don't meet those ridiculous capitalistic expectations in how you live your life and how you show up and in what you produce, then you are just like an unworthy human being.
• 7:39
  Emily: We hate hustle culture.
• 7:40
  Emily: We think it's bullshit.
• 7:43
  Emily: And so I was thinking about perfectionism and, like, what role does it play in hustle culture?
• 7:49
  Emily: And what I came up with is.
• 7:52
  Emily: Came up with is I think it's a safety mechanism to keep you safe in a culture of hustle.
• 8:00
  Emily: Okay, explain.
• 8:03
  Emily: So, like, I think perfectionism is.
• 8:08
  Emily: I'm going to butcher this Brene Brown quote, but.
• 8:10
  Emily: Right.
• 8:11
  Emily: Perfectionism is this.
• 8:13
  Emily: This idea that if you act perfectly and do everything perfectly and speak perfectly and look perfectly, that you're not going to get hurt and you're not going to be ostracized.
• 8:25
  Emily: You're not, you know, that you will be safe among other human beings.
• 8:30
  Emily: And I think that that belief, It's a belief structure that is designed to keep us safe in a world where what we look like, how much we produce, how much money we make, like, all of that is tied to how worthy we are of love and of acceptance.
• 8:49
  Emily: And so I don't.
• 8:50
  Emily: They're not the same thing.
• 8:52
  Emily: Like, I think perfectionism is a. Is a. A way that we have.
• 8:57
  Emily: It's something that, like, our brain has designed to keep us safe in this ridiculous world where we can't actually do what hustle culture wants us to do.
• 9:07
  Rachel: Yeah, Yeah, I think that sounds true.
• 9:14
  Rachel: I feel like when I.
• 9:17
  Rachel: I think it would be easy to, like, draw a line between these two things where hustle culture tells us that our value comes from how much we.
• 9:25
  Rachel: How much we produce and how much money we make.
• 9:28
  Rachel: And then you take perfectionism, which on its surface can lead to, like, slow creating because you're trying to make it perfect.
• 9:37
  Rachel: So, like, it would be easy to draw a line and be like, no, they can't be connected because perfectionism is about, like, taking your time and doing it right.
• 9:45
  Rachel: And like, hustle culture is about, like, do, do, do.
• 9:47
  Rachel: Get it done.
• 9:48
  Rachel: Do more.
• 9:49
  Emily: Yeah.
• 9:49
  Rachel: Like, they're not.
• 9:51
  Rachel: They're not isolated from one another by any means.
• 9:55
  Rachel: And I think they feed each other's negative impacts.
• 10:01
  Rachel: You know, where, like, perfectionism tells us that if we make a mistake, we'll get hurt.
• 10:08
  Rachel: And hustle culture tells us if we don't do enough, we're not valuable.
• 10:13
  Rachel: And the two of them together, because they don't exist in a vacuum from one another, create, like a spiral of shame and self hatred and, like, never doing anything and like, paralysis.
• 10:24
  Rachel: Can't do anything.
• 10:25
  Rachel: And then it just, like, gets worse and worse and worse because you want to create more, but it has to be perfect.
• 10:31
  Rachel: But you can't.
• 10:32
  Rachel: You're.
• 10:33
  Rachel: You can't create more because it is.
• 10:34
  Rachel: You're trying to make it perfect, but you feel the pressure to do even more.
• 10:39
  Rachel: And so, like, they just kind of, like, hit.
• 10:42
  Rachel: They're like opposing magnets that, like, are caught in each other's magnetization.
• 10:48
  Rachel: I don't know.
• 10:48
  Rachel: I'm not a scientist.
• 10:49
  Rachel: Guys, like, pushing against each other, but, like, they don't operate separately from one another.
• 10:56
  Rachel: They are.
• 10:56
  Rachel: Their parallel problems.
• 10:58
  Emily: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people think that perfectionism is, like, a virtue, like, a good thing, but really, it's.
• 11:06
  Emily: That's just hustle culture telling you, you know, you have to do everything right.
• 11:12
  Emily: Right.
• 11:13
  Emily: Like, if you're in a. If you think of, like, the factory metaphor, it's like, you have to show up to work, you have to produce a bunch of stuff, and you have to do it right every single time.
• 11:20
  Emily: Right.
• 11:20
  Emily: If you don't, then the factory line breaks, and then, like, everything's all messed up.
• 11:24
  Emily: And so we have this fear that, like, if we make one mistake, right, like, the whole thing's gonna fall apart.
• 11:30
  Emily: And that's just not how art works.
• 11:32
  Emily: It's not how life works.
• 11:34
  Emily: Yeah.
• 11:34
  Emily: It's not how humans work.
• 11:36
  Emily: Um.
• 11:37
  Emily: And, yeah, it's.
• 11:38
  Emily: It's interesting.
• 11:39
  Emily: I feel like the root of hustle culture is, like, if you don't do enough, you're not worthy.
• 11:45
  Emily: And perfectionism, if you don't do it right, if you don't do it well enough, then you're not worthy.
• 11:50
  Emily: And so it's.
• 11:50
  Emily: They're both rooted in that idea of, like, if you don't fit some external expectation of, you know, what a human should be and produce, then you're not worthy of love and safety and happiness and everything that you just inherently deserve, in my opinion.
• 12:09
  Rachel: Yeah.
• 12:10
  Emily: So, yeah, no, that's helpful.
• 12:13
  Emily: That's.
• 12:13
  Rachel: Yeah, I think they are like.
• 12:16
  Rachel: But this is also why they're both topics of Reclaim the Magic is because when you take the inner critic, they're all just shades of the inner critic narrative.
• 12:25
  Rachel: They're all just shades of the.
• 12:27
  Rachel: The things we tell ourselves that, like, inhibit our ability to.
• 12:31
  Rachel: To create.
• 12:32
  Rachel: And they're, like, so entangled with one another, you probably don't even realize it, because most of the people that I know that tell themselves, I'm creating slowly, I'm a slow artist, take my time, are, like, experiencing perfectionism but they are still also experiencing the shame of not being able to produce as fast as they want.
• 13:01
  Rachel: Like, the expectations.
• 13:03
  Rachel: Yeah, the expectations.
• 13:04
  Rachel: Not meeting the expectations.
• 13:06
  Rachel: And then the shame that comes associated with that.
• 13:10
  Rachel: And not.
• 13:10
  Rachel: Not to say that, like, slow, healthy creation doesn't exist.
• 13:13
  Rachel: It obviously does.
• 13:14
  Rachel: And, like, I think you're better at that than I am.
• 13:17
  Rachel: I don't know if you feel the same.
• 13:18
  Rachel: I am not good at creating slow because that tends to be when my perfectionism.
• 13:24
  Rachel: Yeah, he, like, pops his head up.
• 13:26
  Rachel: And so, like, my.
• 13:27
  Rachel: The way I trick it is to just write faster, to be like, whatever.
• 13:33
  Emily: Okay.
• 13:35
  Emily: I feel like.
• 13:36
  Emily: No, I definitely feel like there are writers who are slow writers.
• 13:42
  Emily: Like, Right.
• 13:42
  Emily: You can be anything in a healthy, healthy way.
• 13:45
  Emily: And so I feel like there it's.
• 13:46
  Emily: It all comes down to, are you a slow writer because that's what you choose and that's what brings you joy and makes you feel fulfilled?
• 13:51
  Emily: Or are you a slow.
• 13:54
  Emily: Are you telling yourself you're a slow writer because you are trying to ward off the shame and guilt you have over not achieving your goals?
• 14:03
  Emily: Then you're not a slow writer.
• 14:05
  Emily: It's something else.
• 14:07
  Emily: And that was me for a long time.
• 14:08
  Emily: I used to, like, there's that book, the Art of Slow Writing, which is an incredible book.
• 14:12
  Emily: I really love it.
• 14:12
  Emily: But the first time I read it, I definitely was like, this is me.
• 14:16
  Emily: I'm just slow because I want to be perfect.
• 14:19
  Emily: And, like, that's not.
• 14:22
  Emily: That's not.
• 14:23
  Emily: That's not being a slow writer.
• 14:24
  Emily: That's being a perfectionist.
• 14:28
  Emily: Yeah. And. And that's what we're going to talk about in Reclaim the Magic, which is coming up on February 1st.
• 14:32
  Emily: We're gonna show you.
• 14:34
  Emily: We're gonna help you identify, like, how to tell if something is perfectionism or part of your process, and how to tell if something is hustle culture or.
• 14:42
  Emily: Or what you truly want.
• 14:44
  Emily: Right.
• 14:45
  Emily: Because it.
• 14:47
  Emily: And it all comes down to, like I said, that idea of, like, pursuing something or doing something because you feel like it will make you feel worthy, or if you already feel worthy and are doing that because it's.
• 14:57
  Emily: It's right for you.
• 14:58
  Emily: And so we're going to start.
• 14:59
  Emily: We're going to teach you a lot about hustle culture and a lot about perfectionism so that you can start to recognize those voices because they're unique for everybody, and start to recognize what those voices are and beliefs that you carry are so we can start to rewrite them and react, reclaim the joy and the magic of writing because you deserve that you deserve to have fun and not be writing with so much fear and guilt and shame weighing on your shoulders.
• 15:24
  Emily: Like, you really don't need.
• 15:26
  Emily: Like, it wasn't until I shed those things that I actually found success with my writing.
• 15:31
  Rachel: Yes.
• 15:32
  Emily: And that I actually found joy and fun.
• 15:35
  Emily: And obviously that's not the reason that I did it.
• 15:38
  Emily: Right.
• 15:38
  Rachel: Like.
• 15:39
  Emily: Like, I'm not saying that, like, going into it being, like, I'm gonna shed all my anti hustle stuff so I can write all the books.
• 15:45
  Emily: Right.
• 15:45
  Emily: Like, that's not.
• 15:46
  Emily: That's not the approach.
• 15:48
  Emily: We want to do this because we want to love ourselves more and we want to have more fun and we want to have more joy.
• 15:53
  Emily: But you'll also probably make more progress.
• 15:56
  Emily: Yes.
• 15:58
  Emily: So if you're spinning your wheels, come join us.
• 16:01
  Rachel: Yeah, I'm.
• 16:03
  Rachel: I'm now thinking of.
• 16:05
  Rachel: Of this whole of us as of seeing life.
• 16:11
  Rachel: There is a. So I'm picturing now, like, picture a tree and, like, at the.
• 16:17
  Rachel: At the trunk is, like, shame and external pressure and fear.
• 16:23
  Rachel: And then there's like, a branch that's perfectionism, and there's a branch that's hustle culture, and there's a branch that's imposter syndrome, and there's a branch that's comparison.
• 16:33
  Rachel: But, like, at the root of all of these things, it still comes back to the external pressure, which creates the shame.
• 16:41
  Rachel: It still comes back to, like, the fear of being hurt, the fear of rejection, and that comes back to shame.
• 16:48
  Rachel: So I think, like, whatever branch you're hanging out on, or if you have like a tree house in the whole thing, like me, and you're touching all the branches, like, there's.
• 17:00
  Rachel: There is a common route to all of these different narratives, and that.
• 17:06
  Rachel: That root is what we explore in Reclaim the Magic.
• 17:10
  Rachel: So that you can prune.
• 17:13
  Rachel: Prune things away.
• 17:14
  Rachel: Or, like, I don't.
• 17:16
  Rachel: I'm kind of.
• 17:16
  Rachel: I'm trying to keep it to a tree metaphor.
• 17:18
  Rachel: I don't know if it still works, but, like, so that you can change your behavior so that you can feel better about your writing life and, like, so that you can reach your dreams, even if, like, I don't know, maybe you.
• 17:30
  Rachel: Maybe you do come and you're like, I really, really, really want to publish a book this year, but I've tried every year and I can't, and it just never happens.
• 17:38
  Rachel: Why?
• 17:38
  Rachel: Well, why don't you come.
• 17:40
  Rachel: Why don't you come to reclaim the magic and maybe you'll find out?
• 17:43
  Emily: Yeah. Yeah, we can't wait to see you.
• 17:45
  Emily: See you there.
• 17:47
  Rachel: If you want to build a successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
• 17:54
  Emily: Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs.
• 17:57
  Emily: After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.
• 18:01
  Rachel: Link in the show notes.
• 18:02
  Rachel: We'll see you there.
• 18:04
  Emily: Bye.