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Mega Edition: What The Warrants Told Us About The Kohberger Investigation Early On (9/11/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: And welcome back to the program. We've been diving into
0:04
Speaker 1: the court documents that have been released lately and there
0:08
Speaker 1: has been quite a bit of them. Well, if you
0:10
Speaker 1: look at those court documents and you take a look
0:13
Speaker 1: at the case overall, you start to see things in
0:16
Speaker 1: context a little bit better. And especially when we're talking
0:20
Speaker 1: about those digital warrants. Remember when this all first started?
0:25
Speaker 1: We were hearing from the investigators during their weekly updates.
0:29
Speaker 1: about the 50 warrants that they had served as far
0:32
Speaker 1: as a digital nature?
0:34
Speaker 2: Well, these are those warrants.
0:36
Speaker 1: And while they're heavily redacted, we get an idea of
0:40
Speaker 1: what the investigators are looking for by the nature of
0:44
Speaker 1: these warrants. And we also see that the police were
0:47
Speaker 1: hard at work this whole entire time behind the scenes.
0:51
Speaker 1: Even at the early stages, Of the investigation, the investigators
0:55
Speaker 1: had something cooking behind the scenes. And obviously, all of
1:00
Speaker 1: these little pieces of evidence that they had uncovered ended
1:03
Speaker 1: up snowballing together and leading them to Brian Koberger.
1:08
Speaker 2: And that's how it happens in these kinds of investigations, right?
1:11
Speaker 1: It's a ton of circumstantial evidence that has to be
1:14
Speaker 1: weaved together by the investigators so that when it comes
1:18
Speaker 1: to trial time, the jurors look at it and say,
1:20
Speaker 1: all right, well, all of that circumstantial evidence added up
1:25
Speaker 1: leads us to believe that so-and-so is guilty.
1:28
Speaker 2: And that obviously is the goal here.
1:30
Speaker 1: And when you look at the totality of the evidence
1:33
Speaker 1: that's been provided here, I find it to be pretty
1:36
Speaker 1: damn strong. Circumstantial, sure, but added together in its totality?
1:41
Speaker 1: Very difficult for Brian Kohlberger to work his way out
1:44
Speaker 1: of this. Today we have an article from the Idaho Statesman. Headline,
1:50
Speaker 1: Idaho search warrants show Moscow homicides police work before Brian
1:54
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's arrest. This article was authored by Kevin Fixler. Dozens
2:00
Speaker 1: of newly released search warrants in the investigation into November's
2:03
Speaker 1: University of Idaho homicides reveal for the first time how
2:08
Speaker 1: law enforcement pursued and developed evidence that led to the
2:12
Speaker 1: arrest of suspected killer Brian Koberger. Based on the Idaho
2:17
Speaker 1: statesman analysis, the hundreds of pages of redacted warrants and
2:21
Speaker 1: warrant returns, as well as Latah County prosecutor case filings
2:25
Speaker 1: to keep them all under seal, spanned some of the
2:28
Speaker 1: biggest companies in social media, shopping, banking, and telecommunications. And
2:35
Speaker 1: as we've been making our way through those court documents,
2:38
Speaker 1: it's rather obvious that the investigators didn't leave a stone unturned,
2:42
Speaker 1: especially when we're talking about the digital warrants. Now, we
2:46
Speaker 1: don't know what those warrants yielded, but they sure did
2:49
Speaker 1: get a lot of them. Filings include Google, Apple, Walmart, Amazon,
2:56
Speaker 1: and Meta, parent company of Facebook and Instagram, detailing the
3:00
Speaker 1: path police took in piecing together the four victims' whereabouts
3:04
Speaker 1: and learning more about the 28-year-old graduate student allegedly behind
3:08
Speaker 1: the stabbing deaths on November 13th. Four days after discovering
3:13
Speaker 1: the bodies of U of I students Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan,
3:17
Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin at an off-campus rental home
3:22
Speaker 1: on King Road in Moscow, police expanded their hunt with
3:25
Speaker 1: legal demands for phone and area cell tower data, the
3:29
Speaker 1: trove of records showed. Moscow Police Forensic Detective Lawrence Mowry,
3:34
Speaker 1: a four-year member of the force with a dozen years
3:37
Speaker 1: of law enforcement, took the lead on filing nearly 70
3:40
Speaker 1: warrants over three months, most recently in late January. I
3:45
Speaker 1: think they got a little bit confused there. I believe
3:48
Speaker 1: that Mowry is the officer with over 12 years of experience,
3:53
Speaker 1: and it was Corporal Brett Payne, the other detective who
3:57
Speaker 1: only has four years of experience. Just a minor correction there.
4:03
Speaker 1: Investigators began by serving search warrants to AT & T,
4:06
Speaker 1: Verizon Wireless, T-Mobile, and Inland Cellular, a regional carrier that
4:13
Speaker 1: operates in north central Idaho and southeastern Washington. And all
4:18
Speaker 1: of those search warrants are super crucial to what's going on.
4:22
Speaker 1: And that's why we continue to go through them one
4:25
Speaker 1: by one here on the podcast. It's going to give
4:27
Speaker 1: you a blueprint on how to follow what's going on
4:31
Speaker 1: in the court. With a gag order, it makes it
4:33
Speaker 1: a lot more difficult because we're not getting information from
4:36
Speaker 1: the media. So we have to do the legwork ourselves
4:40
Speaker 1: and try and put the pieces together by what's going
4:43
Speaker 1: on inside of that courtroom. And the way to do
4:46
Speaker 1: that is to follow along with these court filings. They
4:50
Speaker 1: sought a history of all the devices that ping cell
4:52
Speaker 1: towers within a half-mile radius of the Moscow home between
4:56
Speaker 1: 3 a.m.
4:57
Speaker 2: And 5 a.m. on November 13th.
5:00
Speaker 1: They received the bulk of the data within just a
5:02
Speaker 1: couple of days and began to pore over the GPS
5:05
Speaker 1: coordinates of cell phones and other devices on nearby networks
5:10
Speaker 1: in the early morning time frame. Police would later state
5:14
Speaker 1: in a probable cause affidavit to obtain a warrant for
5:17
Speaker 1: Koberger's arrest that his cell phone did not use the
5:20
Speaker 1: cell towers near the King Road home during those two hours.
5:24
Speaker 1: Investigators allege that Koberger did this purposefully to avoid alerting
5:29
Speaker 1: law enforcement that his cell phone was near the crime scene.
5:33
Speaker 1: So they assert that Brian Koberger did this on purpose.
5:36
Speaker 1: That way he would evade any sort of scrutiny by
5:39
Speaker 1: investigators after the fact. Individuals can either leave their cellular
5:46
Speaker 1: telephone at a different location before committing a crime, or
5:50
Speaker 1: turn their cellular telephone off prior to going to a
5:53
Speaker 1: location to commit a crime, read the affidavit signed by
5:57
Speaker 1: Moscow Police Corporal Brett Payne. A national telecommunications expert previously
6:02
Speaker 1: told the statesman it would be impossible to know whether
6:06
Speaker 1: someone turned off their phone for a period unless they
6:08
Speaker 1: received a call and records showed it went directly to voicemail.
6:12
Speaker 1: So again, it's going to be the battle of experts.
6:15
Speaker 1: The same thing we saw with Alec Murdoch, that's going
6:18
Speaker 1: to occur here. The experts are going to have to
6:20
Speaker 1: battle it out. Then it's going to be up to
6:22
Speaker 1: the jury to decide what they believe. Law enforcement's information
6:28
Speaker 1: gathering continued during the homicide investigation's first week, shifting to
6:32
Speaker 1: the credit card purchase and financial transaction histories over roughly
6:37
Speaker 1: three months for the four victims and three individuals whose
6:41
Speaker 1: names were redacted from the records. Gonsalves, Mogan, and Kernodle
6:47
Speaker 1: were roommates in the off-campus house along with two other
6:50
Speaker 1: women who went unharmed in the knife attack, and a
6:53
Speaker 1: sixth roommate who police said no longer lived in the home.
6:57
Speaker 1: Chapin and Kernodle were dating, and he was staying at
7:00
Speaker 1: the house for the night. And as far as the
7:03
Speaker 1: other redacted names, my guess would be that two of
7:06
Speaker 1: them at the very least would be the surviving roommates,
7:09
Speaker 1: Bethany Funk and Dylan Mortensen. Police sent search warrants to
7:14
Speaker 1: Bank of America, Umpqua Bank, PayPal Venmo, and the parent
7:18
Speaker 1: company of Point of Sale Service Square, with FBI agent
7:22
Speaker 1: Michael Douglas, a financial specialist, helping to acquire the data,
7:27
Speaker 1: the record showed. Mowry also requested exterior surveillance footage from
7:32
Speaker 1: the Umpqua Bank branch on Washington Street in downtown Moscow,
7:36
Speaker 1: located about a half mile from where Gonsalves and Mogan
7:39
Speaker 1: were out late at night on the night of their deaths,
7:42
Speaker 1: and about 1,000 feet from the popular food truck parked downtown,
7:47
Speaker 1: where they stopped for a to-go order of macaroni on
7:51
Speaker 1: their way home.
7:52
Speaker 2: According to the police.
7:54
Speaker 1: A week later, police sent more search warrants for the victims,
7:58
Speaker 1: financial transaction information to several other banks and credit card companies,
8:03
Speaker 1: Wells Fargo, American Express, Discover, Washington's Banner Bank, and three
8:09
Speaker 1: credit unions. They widened their demand to include two more
8:12
Speaker 1: people whose names were redacted for a total of of
8:16
Speaker 1: nine account holders, including the four victims. So, again, you
8:21
Speaker 1: have to think that the two surviving roommates are two
8:24
Speaker 1: of the people who were redacted here, who had their
8:27
Speaker 1: information looked at. Because remember, when this first happened, the
8:32
Speaker 1: investigators had no idea who was or wasn't involved. So
8:36
Speaker 1: everybody had to be a suspect at the very beginning.
8:40
Speaker 1: And then they do their investigation and decide who is
8:43
Speaker 1: or who isn't somebody of interest. While serving warrants for
8:49
Speaker 1: initial financial transaction histories, investigators also sent warrants to Apple, Meta,
8:54
Speaker 1: and Snapchat for the four victims' account information. From Snapchat,
8:59
Speaker 1: police obtained the data from August 1st through a week
9:02
Speaker 1: after their deaths. From Apple, they obtained each victim's iCloud
9:07
Speaker 1: account information over the same period. From Meta, police received
9:11
Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram account information from August to November for
9:16
Speaker 1: the four victims plus three other people whose names were redacted.
9:21
Speaker 1: Several other search warrants from November to January, including to Apple, Google,
9:27
Speaker 1: AT & T, and Verizon, offered no information at all.
9:31
Speaker 1: They were immediately sealed and remained so. And you see
9:34
Speaker 1: as we go through those documents one by one how
9:37
Speaker 1: redacted they are. They have a lot of information that
9:42
Speaker 1: they are not sharing with us. And that's how these
9:45
Speaker 1: investigations go. And that's why I'm also convinced that they
9:49
Speaker 1: have more damning evidence as far as DNA and other
9:53
Speaker 1: evidence that leads them to believe that it's Brian Koberger
9:56
Speaker 1: who did this.
9:58
Speaker 2: Early search for weapon.
10:01
Speaker 1: In the first week of their investigation, police had already
10:05
Speaker 1: begun trying to discover who might have bought a K-Bar
10:08
Speaker 1: brand combat style knife with a leather sheath that they
10:11
Speaker 1: suspected was used to kill the four students. The statesman
10:15
Speaker 1: was the first to report that police had visited Moscow
10:19
Speaker 1: hardware stores and other local retailers asking about recent sales
10:23
Speaker 1: of K-Bar knives, and police later disclosed in the affidavit
10:28
Speaker 1: that a K-Bar brand leather sheath with a U.S. Marine
10:32
Speaker 1: Corps insignia was located next to Mogan's body in the
10:35
Speaker 1: bed where she and Gonsalves were found dead. A single
10:39
Speaker 1: source of male DNA was found on the button snap
10:42
Speaker 1: of the sheath, which police said later linked to Kohlberger.
10:47
Speaker 1: The records posted Friday include a search warrant for the
10:50
Speaker 1: Coeur d'Alene Police Department forensics lab that since December 1st
10:54
Speaker 1: has remained under court seal, including all related documents without
10:59
Speaker 1: release of redacted records at the request of the Latah
11:02
Speaker 1: County Prosecutor's Office and Latah County Judge Megan Marshall's order.
11:07
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of stuff that is just not
11:10
Speaker 1: going to be unsealed. And that information won't be available
11:14
Speaker 1: more times than not until we get to the trial.
11:19
Speaker 1: Police sent a search warrant to online retailer Amazon for
11:23
Speaker 1: all sales dating to the beginning of the year for
11:25
Speaker 1: a K-Bar full size U.S. Marine Corps fighting knife and
11:29
Speaker 1: the leather sheath. The next week, they served a similar
11:32
Speaker 1: search warrant to Walmart and then to eBay. The number
11:36
Speaker 1: of records returned from the two retail giants and the
11:40
Speaker 1: online auctioneer are unclear because the publicly released documents are redacted.
11:45
Speaker 1: But a follow-up search Warren sent to eBay showed police
11:49
Speaker 1: had particular interest in 13 user accounts in nine U.S.
11:53
Speaker 1: states and one in Japan related to a K-Bar U.S.
11:57
Speaker 1: Marine straight-edge knife and the model 1217S leather sheath. So
12:04
Speaker 1: right away, the early stages of the investigation, they already
12:08
Speaker 1: had an idea of what they were looking for. And
12:11
Speaker 1: that's all because, allegedly, Brian Kohlberger left the sheath at
12:15
Speaker 1: the scene of the crime. Talk about an idiotic mistake
12:19
Speaker 1: to make if you're trying to get away with something.
12:22
Speaker 1: Two of the user accounts were connected to Washington State,
12:26
Speaker 1: another to Idaho, and one to Pennsylvania, where Kohlberger grew
12:30
Speaker 1: up and was arrested, the record showed. Kohlberger lived in Pullman, Washington,
12:35
Speaker 1: on the Idaho border since the summer and attended graduate
12:38
Speaker 1: school at Washington State University. About two weeks after the
12:42
Speaker 1: investigation began, Mowry sent K-Bar Knives Incorporated, located in Oleon,
12:48
Speaker 1: New York, a search warrant for the sale of six
12:51
Speaker 1: models of their knives plus the leather sheath. Mowry also
12:55
Speaker 1: requested information about six companies that distribute K-Bar products. Only
13:01
Speaker 1: one of the distributor's names, Blue Ridge Knives in Southwest Virginia,
13:05
Speaker 1: was left unredacted. Mowry later sent the wholesaler a search
13:10
Speaker 1: warrant in December 2018. about its sales back to the
13:13
Speaker 1: start of last year of USMC insignia leather sheaths with
13:18
Speaker 1: specific inquiry, about 840 units, bought between March and July 22nd.
13:25
Speaker 1: And we went through that warrant already, and it's very,
13:28
Speaker 1: very interesting, some of the requests.
13:30
Speaker 2: Now, are they going to pan out? Who knows?
13:32
Speaker 1: We're going to have to see. But there's no doubt
13:36
Speaker 1: that the investigators had an idea of what they were
13:38
Speaker 1: looking for really early on. Moscow police previously maintained they
13:45
Speaker 1: had yet to find the weapon they believe was used
13:48
Speaker 1: in the Moscow killings. Pennsylvania search warrants that were unsealed
13:51
Speaker 1: and released last month from Kohlberger's December 30th arrest showed
13:56
Speaker 1: police took three knives and a handgun from his parents'
13:59
Speaker 1: eastern Pennsylvania home during his arrest. For Kohlberger's apartment in Pullman,
14:05
Speaker 1: they took more than a dozen items, including bedding with
14:08
Speaker 1: red stains and a Walmart sales receipt, but no weapons.
14:13
Speaker 1: according to the unsealed Washington search warrants released in January.
14:19
Speaker 1: Dozens of search warrants obtained. By the end of December,
14:23
Speaker 1: about six weeks since the homicides, investigators obtained more than
14:27
Speaker 1: 50 search warrants in the case. Latah County Prosecutor Bill
14:31
Speaker 1: Thompson told a statesman in a December 28th interview. Now remember,
14:36
Speaker 1: that was significant when they drew those warrants. And at
14:40
Speaker 1: the time, we were talking about all of the information
14:42
Speaker 1: that they might learn with those warrants. And obviously it's
14:46
Speaker 1: been a treasure trove for the investigators. On January 3rd,
14:51
Speaker 1: Marshall issued a gag order that prevents law enforcement and
14:54
Speaker 1: prosecuting and defense attorneys from commenting on the case outside
14:58
Speaker 1: of court filings. Later that month, she added attorneys for
15:02
Speaker 1: witnesses and the victim's families from speaking publicly too. During
15:07
Speaker 1: the first week of December, Police also sent search warrants
15:10
Speaker 1: to Tinder, Reddit, Google, and Yahoo, seeking Gonsalves' account information
15:15
Speaker 1: from each company. They wanted her dating profile and Reddit
15:20
Speaker 1: data tied to two email addresses and one phone number
15:24
Speaker 1: dating to January 1, 2021. From Google and Yahoo, for
15:29
Speaker 1: email accounts, police requested all data from August 1, 2022,
15:33
Speaker 1: through a week after she died. At that point in
15:38
Speaker 1: their investigation, police did not seek the same information through
15:41
Speaker 1: warrants about any other of the three victims, according to
15:45
Speaker 1: the records. Later in December, with the help of a
15:48
Speaker 1: police detective in Post Falls, about 15 minutes from Gonsalves'
15:52
Speaker 1: hometown in Rathdrum, Mowry obtained decrypted access to her laptop
15:58
Speaker 1: through a search warrant sent to Extreme Networks. The following week,
16:03
Speaker 1: he also served a warrant to an offshoot of U.S.
16:06
Speaker 1: Bank for Gonsalves Financial Transactions, dating to September 1st, 2022.
16:14
Speaker 1: And that's interesting, because remember, we were going under the
16:17
Speaker 1: assumption at the very beginning, or at least some people were,
16:21
Speaker 1: that it was Kaylee who was the intended target. Now,
16:25
Speaker 1: since we have had some time to gather information and
16:28
Speaker 1: get some context, I'm under the impression that it was
16:31
Speaker 1: actually Madison who was the target. But none of that
16:35
Speaker 1: has been confirmed. and we'll have to wait for the
16:37
Speaker 1: investigation to give us that confirmation. Almost immediately, Moscow police,
16:43
Speaker 1: including Chief James Fry, called the crime targeted and isolated
16:48
Speaker 1: and said that there was no ongoing threat to the community.
16:51
Speaker 1: Officials remained difficult to pin down on whether it was
16:54
Speaker 1: a specific person or the home that was the suspect's
16:58
Speaker 1: presumed target. Gonsalves' parents, meanwhile, later said in television interviews
17:03
Speaker 1: that they believe their daughter was the killer's target. based
17:06
Speaker 1: on the severity of the injuries they said she received
17:10
Speaker 1: in the knife attack compared to the other three victims.
17:14
Speaker 1: And for me, that has to do with the fact
17:16
Speaker 1: that she wasn't supposed to be there. She wasn't supposed
17:20
Speaker 1: to be there to ruin Brian Kohlberger's time with Maddie.
17:25
Speaker 1: And since she was, he took out his aggression on Kaylee.
17:29
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds morbid. And for most of us,
17:32
Speaker 1: right-thinking people, That sounds like some kind of shit.
17:35
Speaker 2: You would hear in a movie.
17:37
Speaker 1: But when we're dealing with people who are obviously wired
17:41
Speaker 1: incorrectly and screwed up in the brain, then all bets
17:45
Speaker 1: are off. A day after receiving Gonsalves' account information from Tinder,
17:50
Speaker 1: police sent the company a follow-up search warrant for information
17:53
Speaker 1: for about 19 accounts that were redacted from November 3rd
17:57
Speaker 1: to December 6th at the time. They also sent the
18:01
Speaker 1: dating service a separate search warrant for Mogan's account history
18:05
Speaker 1: from January 1, 2021 to December 6, 2022. Mowry sent
18:11
Speaker 1: another warrant later that month to Tinder for data for
18:15
Speaker 1: the month of March 21 for 20 accounts that were redacted.
18:20
Speaker 1: On December 6, police also sent a search warrant to
18:23
Speaker 1: DoorDash for all deliveries to the King Road home dating
18:26
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the year. It was later revealed
18:29
Speaker 1: in the affidavit that Kernodle received a DoorDash food delivery
18:33
Speaker 1: at the home at approximately 4 a.m., the day of
18:36
Speaker 1: the killings. And police said they cleared the driver of
18:40
Speaker 1: any involvement in the crime. And that's easy to do. Obviously,
18:44
Speaker 1: this guy had his cell phone on. He was delivering
18:46
Speaker 1: for DoorDash. So the GPS had him somewhere else completely.
18:51
Speaker 1: And that was a very easy task for the investigators
18:54
Speaker 1: to rule this guy out, at least.
18:56
Speaker 2: Cell phone data, and sealed warrants.
18:59
Speaker 1: On December 23rd, for reasons that remain unclear based on
19:02
Speaker 1: the records, Payne obtained a search warrant that he served
19:06
Speaker 1: for AT & T for location data from midnight November
19:10
Speaker 1: 12th to midnight November 14th for a single phone that
19:14
Speaker 1: is redacted in the documents. In the affidavit, Payne stated
19:18
Speaker 1: that the warrant was connected to Koberger's cell phone and
19:21
Speaker 1: detailed the same time frame. The same day AT &
19:24
Speaker 1: T provided Payne with the requested information about Kohlberger's cell
19:29
Speaker 1: phone location during that 48-hour window, according to the unsealed warrant.
19:34
Speaker 1: The data showed Kohlberger's phone in the area of his
19:37
Speaker 1: Pullman apartment at 2.42 a.m., then leaving the area five
19:41
Speaker 1: minutes later, before not reporting to the cellular network again
19:46
Speaker 1: until more than two hours later, Payne wrote in the affidavit.
19:51
Speaker 1: And that was the AT & T warrant that we
19:53
Speaker 1: went through earlier today. That's the warrant that they're talking
19:56
Speaker 1: about right now in this article. And that's why they're
19:59
Speaker 1: so significant, all of those court documents, because they're going
20:03
Speaker 1: to be a huge point of discussion moving forward as
20:07
Speaker 1: this case and this trial progresses. When Koberger's phone resurfaced
20:13
Speaker 1: on the network at 4.48 a.m., police alleged in the
20:16
Speaker 1: affidavit the data showed it was using towers along Idaho
20:21
Speaker 1: 95 south of Moscow and north of Genesee, Idaho, near
20:25
Speaker 1: the community of Blaine. They tracked the phone's data along
20:29
Speaker 1: a route back to Pullman at about 5.30 a.m., police said.
20:34
Speaker 1: In the affidavit, Payne reported sending AT & T a
20:37
Speaker 1: separate search warrant on December 23rd for the historical location
20:41
Speaker 1: data for Kohlberger's cell phone since June 23, 2022, when
20:47
Speaker 1: police said the account was opened.
20:50
Speaker 2: The record showed a search warrant for.
20:51
Speaker 1: AT & T that since January 6 has remained under seal,
20:56
Speaker 1: including all related documents without release of redacted records at
21:00
Speaker 1: the request of the Latah County Prosecutor's Office and Judge
21:04
Speaker 1: Marshall's order.
21:05
Speaker 2: Moscow police served.
21:07
Speaker 1: AT & T no other warrants in the investigation, according
21:10
Speaker 1: to the nearly 70 filings. The historical data Payne received
21:14
Speaker 1: about Koberger's cell phone placed him, based on use of
21:18
Speaker 1: the cell phone towers in the area, in the vicinity
21:20
Speaker 1: of the crime scene on at least 12 occasions prior
21:24
Speaker 1: to November 13, 2022, the affidavit read. All of these occasions,
21:29
Speaker 1: except for one, occurred in the late evening and the
21:32
Speaker 1: early morning hours of their respective days. Pennsylvania State Police
21:37
Speaker 1: and the FBI arrested Koberger at about 1.25 a.m. on
21:41
Speaker 1: December 30th, according to the unsealed Pennsylvania search warrants. He
21:46
Speaker 1: was flown to Idaho on January 4th, and the probable
21:50
Speaker 1: cause affidavit was released the next day when he made
21:53
Speaker 1: his first court appearance in Idaho to face four counts
21:56
Speaker 1: of first-degree murder and one count of felony burglary. Since then,
22:02
Speaker 1: police in January issued five more search warrants, each appearing
22:05
Speaker 1: related to Koberger, according to the newly released filings. They
22:10
Speaker 1: include seeking records from Washington State's Registrar's Office, which remain
22:14
Speaker 1: under seal without redactions, as well as account information for
22:18
Speaker 1: various lengths of time for Koberger's Google email address, Tinder profile,
22:24
Speaker 1: and Yik Yak's social media platform. When the Tinder and
22:27
Speaker 1: Yik Yak search warrants were served January 25th, Mowry also
22:32
Speaker 1: sent Dropbox a legal demand, For all information connected to
22:35
Speaker 1: a person whose name is redacted, plus three email accounts
22:39
Speaker 1: and one phone number, each also redacted. The Tinder and
22:43
Speaker 1: Yik Yak search warrants are identical in their requests, with
22:47
Speaker 1: the exception of including Koberger's name unredacted. Koberger remains in
22:52
Speaker 1: Latah County Jail. His preliminary hearing is scheduled to start
22:56
Speaker 1: in Marshalls County courtroom on June 26th. It's interesting now
23:01
Speaker 1: to take a look at what was happening in the
23:03
Speaker 1: beginning with the benefit of hindsight to see just how
23:07
Speaker 1: much work was going on and to see just how
23:10
Speaker 1: close they were getting to Brian Koberger all at the
23:12
Speaker 1: same time while playing coy with the media and the
23:16
Speaker 1: rest of us and telling us they had nobody in
23:18
Speaker 1: their sights. So the Moscow Police Department, they came under
23:22
Speaker 1: a lot of fire and a lot of criticism. And
23:25
Speaker 1: to tell you the truth, they earned a lot of
23:26
Speaker 1: it in the beginning. The poor messaging for me was
23:30
Speaker 1: the bad part. Not the investigation itself, because we weren't
23:34
Speaker 1: privy to what was going on behind the scenes. So
23:37
Speaker 1: I wasn't willing to jump, you know, both feet into
23:40
Speaker 1: the deep end and say they weren't doing anything. But
23:43
Speaker 1: the miscommunication was real bad. And that was my biggest
23:46
Speaker 1: issue with the investigators in the early stages of this investigation.
23:51
Speaker 1: But since then, and since they cleaned up that messaging,
23:54
Speaker 1: they've done a very good job. And hopefully, they continue
23:57
Speaker 1: to do so, and we see a conviction come of this.
24:00
Speaker 1: Because from where I'm sitting, each and every day it's
24:04
Speaker 1: looking more and more likely that Brian Kohlberger is the
24:07
Speaker 1: man that the government is telling us he is. All right, everybody,
24:12
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. All of
24:14
Speaker 1: the information that goes with the episode can be found
24:17
Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up everyone and welcome back
24:21
Speaker 1: to the program. Ever since the arrest of Brian Koberger
24:27
Speaker 1: and the release of the information in the affidavit, I've
24:30
Speaker 1: had a lot of questions about how somebody who is
24:34
Speaker 1: purportedly so smart could make so many boneheaded decisions as
24:38
Speaker 1: they're planning and carrying out a murder such as this.
24:42
Speaker 1: And I haven't been able to kick the thought or
24:45
Speaker 1: the feeling that this dude wanted to get caught. What
24:50
Speaker 1: else could explain somebody who is allegedly as intelligent and
24:54
Speaker 1: as trained as Brian Koberger? leaving a knife sheath with
24:58
Speaker 1: his DNA next to the body of one of the
25:01
Speaker 1: people he just murdered. Now, of course, it could have
25:04
Speaker 1: easily been a mistake by Brian Koberger, and he could
25:07
Speaker 1: have been caught up in the throes of his exhilaration
25:11
Speaker 1: of finally doing what he wanted to do, and he could.
25:14
Speaker 2: Have left that sheath.
25:16
Speaker 1: But wouldn't you know that you don't have a sheath
25:18
Speaker 1: for your knife as you're leaving the house? You have
25:20
Speaker 1: this big-ass blade. Did he just carry the blade out
25:23
Speaker 1: in his hand? I mean, usually you have to put
25:26
Speaker 1: it back in the sheath, right? So how did he
25:29
Speaker 1: transport this knife without that sheath? So it's certainly a
25:33
Speaker 1: question that should be asked and some speculation that's worthy
25:37
Speaker 1: dipping our toes into. With that said, let's take a
25:40
Speaker 1: look at this article from the Daily Mail and let's
25:44
Speaker 1: see what they have to say about the knife sheath
25:47
Speaker 1: and the possibility that Brian Kohlberger left it on purpose.
25:52
Speaker 2: Headline.
25:53
Speaker 1: Did Idaho killer deliberately leave knife sheath at the crime scene?
25:57
Speaker 1: Expert explains how DNA covered blade case could help Brian
26:01
Speaker 1: Koberger's defense.
26:03
Speaker 2: Boy, that's a doozy, huh?
26:05
Speaker 1: And look, I'm not going to sit here and tell
26:07
Speaker 1: you that Brian Koberger is some kind of criminal mastermind.
26:11
Speaker 2: I have no idea one way or the other. What
26:13
Speaker 2: happened at that crime scene?
26:14
Speaker 1: I don't know if he left that knife sheath on
26:16
Speaker 1: purpose or if he's just the dumbest criminal we have
26:19
Speaker 1: seen in quite some time. It could be either one
26:22
Speaker 1: of those at this point because we just don't have
26:24
Speaker 1: enough information. But we certainly can take a look at
26:27
Speaker 1: what went down and say to ourselves, boy, this is
26:31
Speaker 1: a gigantic mistake to make even for a criminal who
26:36
Speaker 1: is a novice, never mind somebody who is studying to
26:39
Speaker 1: get their PhD in criminology. This article was authored by
26:44
Speaker 1: Hope Sloop. The Idaho quadruple murder suspect may have left
26:50
Speaker 1: the nice sheath at the crime scene as part of
26:53
Speaker 1: a remarkably clever move to get off the hook, a
26:56
Speaker 1: criminologist suggested. David Wilson, a professor at Birmingham City University
27:02
Speaker 1: in the UK, pushed the idea that accused Brian Koberger
27:06
Speaker 1: was too smart to leave the evidence behind. And the
27:09
Speaker 1: rational mind wants to say that, right? How could a
27:12
Speaker 1: PhD student leave such a key piece of evidence like
27:16
Speaker 1: a knife sheath with his DNA on it behind at
27:19
Speaker 1: the crime scene? So, of course, people are going to
27:22
Speaker 1: say to themselves, was this something he planned? Was he
27:25
Speaker 1: planning on, you know, later on down the road for
27:28
Speaker 1: his defense? Is this all part of his grand scheme?
27:31
Speaker 1: The answer is we just don't know. Now, I don't
27:34
Speaker 1: find it to be all that likely that he left
27:37
Speaker 1: this sheath here on purpose because I think that the
27:39
Speaker 1: likeliest scenario was he was in a rage and somehow
27:43
Speaker 1: the sheath was dislodged from wherever he had it, on
27:46
Speaker 1: his belt or wherever he might have been holding the sheath.
27:49
Speaker 1: It came unlodged and in all of the commotion, he
27:52
Speaker 1: didn't realize that he had lost this sheath until perhaps
27:55
Speaker 1: he was out the door or something like that. But
27:57
Speaker 1: then I say to myself, how don't you know you
27:59
Speaker 1: lost your sheath when you're carrying this big ass knife
28:02
Speaker 1: through the house like you're Eddard Stark carrying a sword?
28:05
Speaker 1: Professor Wilson hinted it could have been part of an
28:08
Speaker 1: elaborate plot to ensure he was not convicted, but did
28:11
Speaker 1: not go into.
28:12
Speaker 2: Specific details why he believed this.
28:15
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I don't have any details as to why he
28:18
Speaker 1: would believe that either. Who the hell knows what he
28:21
Speaker 1: learned in those criminology classes or during those lectures or
28:25
Speaker 1: in those books that would lead him to believe that
28:28
Speaker 1: he could get off somehow here. You would think that
28:31
Speaker 1: somebody who is as well-versed as Brian Koberger thought this through.
28:35
Speaker 1: But then again, when we're talking about criminals and people
28:39
Speaker 1: who are inclined to murder other people, they certainly aren't
28:42
Speaker 1: working from a logical perspective. It has been speculated that
28:48
Speaker 1: Koberger could potentially use the knife as a red herring
28:51
Speaker 1: to benefit from double jeopardy laws, which prevent the suspect
28:54
Speaker 1: from being charged with the same crime twice. The DNA
28:59
Speaker 1: found on the sheath was initially tested against Kohlberger's father's DNA,
29:03
Speaker 1: which led investigators to the PhD student. Wilson suggested it
29:08
Speaker 1: could have been transferred on the cover, and that may
29:11
Speaker 1: be an argument made by the suspect's defense team. If
29:14
Speaker 1: that argument succeeds and the key plank of evidence fails,
29:18
Speaker 1: resulting in an innocent verdict, Kohlberger would likely not be
29:22
Speaker 1: charged again. Now, look, I don't think the likelihood of
29:25
Speaker 1: something like that is at all possible. And I don't
29:29
Speaker 1: think that Brian Kohlberger is this arch criminal who came
29:34
Speaker 1: up with this whole ass plot like this, but it's
29:36
Speaker 1: certainly something that has to be discussed, right? Because we're
29:40
Speaker 1: not dealing with just your run of the mill killer here.
29:43
Speaker 1: We're dealing with somebody who has an education in the
29:47
Speaker 1: very field in which they just enacted these crazy ass crimes.
29:51
Speaker 1: It would be no different than if, say, you had
29:53
Speaker 1: somebody who worked for the financial sector engaging in all
29:57
Speaker 1: kinds of financial malfeasance. Of course, we would say that
30:02
Speaker 1: his background in banking played a role in it. So
30:05
Speaker 1: you have to look at this with sober eyes, right?
30:08
Speaker 1: At least for me, I want to take a look
30:10
Speaker 1: at all of the evidence and have as much context
30:13
Speaker 1: as possible as I'm looking at things like this. So
30:17
Speaker 1: hearing speculation from other experts, even speculation that I might
30:21
Speaker 1: not agree with, I think it's a worthwhile task to
30:24
Speaker 1: take a look at it because you don't know what
30:26
Speaker 1: you might miss. He told ITVs this morning, would a
30:31
Speaker 1: highly skilled intelligent student who is teaching criminology, a PhD student,
30:36
Speaker 1: have made such a basic error? And you want to
30:40
Speaker 1: think logically that no way. Somebody who is a PhD
30:43
Speaker 1: student who studies this for a living, they couldn't have
30:46
Speaker 1: made an error like this, right? So it has to
30:49
Speaker 1: be some kind of elaborate plan by Brian Koberger looking
30:53
Speaker 1: 10 moves down the road playing 4D chess. But the
30:58
Speaker 1: reality is, Occam's Razor says, Brian Koberger isn't some kind
31:03
Speaker 1: of arch criminal, isn't some kind of mastermind. Instead, the
31:08
Speaker 1: most likely scenario here is that Brian Koberger left that
31:12
Speaker 1: sheath there on accident while he was enraged. That is
31:16
Speaker 1: where I'm at as far as how I feel about
31:20
Speaker 1: the whole sheath thing and Koberger at the scene.
31:23
Speaker 2: But it's certainly.
31:24
Speaker 1: a topic that is worthy of discussion considering we don't
31:28
Speaker 1: know enough about him. We don't know the motive and
31:31
Speaker 1: we just don't have a full feel or a 4k
31:35
Speaker 1: view of the whole entire scenario and how it played out.
31:40
Speaker 1: The criminologist was responding to host Philip Schofield, who called
31:44
Speaker 1: the abandoning of the knife sheath, a remarkably clumsy move.
31:48
Speaker 1: Wilson said, one of the things that's really struck me
31:51
Speaker 1: about the person that's been arrested and accused of this
31:54
Speaker 1: is he's intelligent and high functioning. So that doesn't mean
31:58
Speaker 1: you can't be a killer or make a stupid mistake.
32:01
Speaker 1: Just because he was a PhD student and somebody who
32:04
Speaker 1: is highly educated doesn't mean that he can't F up,
32:08
Speaker 1: especially in the heat of the moment, killing all of
32:11
Speaker 1: these people, losing himself in his rage and his lust,
32:14
Speaker 1: whatever it was. Oh yeah, it's easy to make a mistake,
32:18
Speaker 1: especially if this was your first time around. He also
32:24
Speaker 1: argued DNA can be transferred from person to person and
32:28
Speaker 1: said he believes the defense may bring that up at trial. Well,
32:31
Speaker 1: of course they're going to. There's not going to be
32:33
Speaker 1: a road left unexplored by the defense or the prosecution.
32:38
Speaker 1: They're going to go to the nines to try and
32:40
Speaker 1: prove their point to the jury, whether it's from the
32:43
Speaker 1: defense's angle or from the state's angle. They are going
32:47
Speaker 1: to explore all of the evidence, put it together, and
32:50
Speaker 1: they're going to present that evidence to the jury. And
32:52
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's team can say whatever they want about DNA
32:56
Speaker 1: being transferred or Koberger having the knife sheathed at a
32:59
Speaker 1: previous time and somebody else brought it to the house
33:02
Speaker 1: or he did at a party. Whatever they want to say,
33:05
Speaker 1: they're going to have to prove that. You can't just say, well,
33:09
Speaker 1: this is what happened. And the court says, oh, well,
33:11
Speaker 1: all right, since the burden of proof is on the prosecution,
33:14
Speaker 1: we'll just let that slide.
33:15
Speaker 2: You have to have evidence of it.
33:17
Speaker 1: You have to have receipts, people that back up your account.
33:20
Speaker 1: And if you don't have that, well, you're just pissing
33:23
Speaker 1: into the wind, my friend. I could have your DNA,
33:26
Speaker 1: Wilson said, speaking to this morning's Holly Willoughby. Your DNA
33:31
Speaker 1: is on me. I could go wherever I wanted to
33:33
Speaker 1: go in the next hour and your DNA would be
33:37
Speaker 1: where I go to, he continued. So the defense is
33:39
Speaker 1: clearly going to present issues that will suggest that Koberger
33:43
Speaker 1: is innocent, the criminologist offered.
33:45
Speaker 2: There's no doubt.
33:46
Speaker 1: They're definitely going to try and pitch it that this
33:48
Speaker 1: wasn't Koberger and it was somebody else.
33:51
Speaker 2: That's my guess.
33:52
Speaker 1: But how are they going to get the jury to
33:55
Speaker 1: bite on that kind of defense if there's no evidence
33:59
Speaker 1: to prove that? As for Kohlberger's cell phone pings, which
34:04
Speaker 1: put him in the Moscow area on the date of
34:06
Speaker 1: the killings and in the weeks beforehand, Wilson offered an
34:09
Speaker 1: explanation for that, too. Moscow isn't too far away from
34:13
Speaker 1: Washington State University, so it would be natural that there
34:16
Speaker 1: would be some of those towers that might ping, he said.
34:20
Speaker 1: They are just eight miles between Washington State University's campus
34:23
Speaker 1: in Pullman, where Kohlberger studied, and Moscow, Idaho, where the
34:27
Speaker 1: murders took place. There will be a defense, Wilson said. Oh,
34:31
Speaker 1: there's no doubt there's going to be a defense. The
34:33
Speaker 1: question is, is that defense going to work, and is
34:36
Speaker 1: it going to be tangible? During a recent episode of
34:41
Speaker 1: Law & Crime's Sidebar podcast, Chief Public Defender for Monroe County, Pennsylvania,
34:46
Speaker 1: Jason Labar said, the evidence is not so clear-cut. The
34:50
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Public Defender's comments on the knife sheath, which was
34:54
Speaker 1: found next to one of the victims, was shrugged off
34:56
Speaker 1: by LaBar as touch or transfer DNA, which would mean
35:00
Speaker 1: that it could remain on the sheath for an indefinite
35:02
Speaker 1: period of time if undisturbed, LaBar said. Okay, so how
35:06
Speaker 1: did it get there? Again, it didn't just walk over
35:09
Speaker 1: there on its own. We have no evidence whatsoever that
35:15
Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger even knew these kids. So how did the
35:18
Speaker 1: knife sheath get there if he wasn't the one who
35:20
Speaker 1: brought it there? They're going to have to explain that
35:22
Speaker 1: to a jury. That's one way of attacking that type
35:27
Speaker 1: of evidence that doesn't put him at the scene of
35:29
Speaker 1: the crime that night out, just that he merely touched
35:32
Speaker 1: that sheath at some point in time. Labar also said
35:35
Speaker 1: police use cell phone tower pings rather than GPS location
35:39
Speaker 1: to put them at the scene 12 times before the
35:42
Speaker 1: quadruple homicides. And I think this is where people are
35:45
Speaker 1: getting a bit confused. Just because they use the pings
35:48
Speaker 1: and the probable cause doesn't mean they didn't use GPS
35:51
Speaker 1: location via geofence warrants. They have the option to call
35:58
Speaker 1: the actual companies here and get data that they wouldn't
36:01
Speaker 1: be able to get otherwise.
36:03
Speaker 2: We've seen it before.
36:05
Speaker 1: And with geofence warrants, it is very invasive to people's
36:09
Speaker 1: privacy in the best of times. Never mind somebody who
36:12
Speaker 1: is suspected of a quadruple homicide. So that's something we
36:16
Speaker 1: have to keep in mind. We only saw what they
36:19
Speaker 1: want us to see in that probable cause affidavit. And
36:22
Speaker 1: there's no doubt that what's in that affidavit, you can
36:25
Speaker 1: punch holes in that evidence. There is zero doubt about
36:28
Speaker 1: it when you look at it individually, especially. But in
36:31
Speaker 1: the totality of it all, good luck. If it was
36:36
Speaker 1: GPS coordinates, you're talking down to a meter as to
36:39
Speaker 1: where Brian Koberger was at the time of these crimes,
36:42
Speaker 1: he said. Whereas cell phone tower ping is that you're
36:46
Speaker 1: within a radius of that tower up to 20 miles.
36:50
Speaker 2: Obviously, Mr.
36:50
Speaker 1: Koberger lived within 10 miles of the University of Idaho
36:54
Speaker 1: where these crimes were committed. So certainly he could ping
36:57
Speaker 1: at any moment in time near the actual crime. All
37:01
Speaker 1: of that is factual. And there is nothing about that
37:04
Speaker 1: statement that can be disputed. However, we don't know what
37:09
Speaker 1: the authorities are rocking with behind the scenes.
37:12
Speaker 2: And if the probable cause affidavit was that.
37:14
Speaker 1: Strong, do you really think that they don't have the
37:17
Speaker 1: actual GPS coordinates of what Brian Koberger was up to?
37:22
Speaker 1: I think it's quite a leap to say that the
37:24
Speaker 1: investigators haven't harvested that information and don't have that evidence
37:28
Speaker 1: on hand.
37:30
Speaker 2: Because if they do have that evidence, the GPS.
37:32
Speaker 1: Coordinates to go along with the pings, to go along
37:36
Speaker 1: with all of the other evidence, that is one hell
37:39
Speaker 1: of a hole for Brian Koberger and his team to
37:42
Speaker 1: try and climb out of. All right, folks, that's going
37:45
Speaker 1: to do it for this one. If you'd like to
37:47
Speaker 1: contact me, you can do that at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com.
37:52
Speaker 1: That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can also find me on
37:59
Speaker 1: Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that I discussed
38:06
Speaker 1: can be found in the description box. Welcome back to
38:11
Speaker 1: the program. On this episode, we're going to hear from
38:15
Speaker 1: a former FBI agent named Jonathan Gilliam, who explains why
38:21
Speaker 1: the FBI can't just come in and take over this case.
38:25
Speaker 1: I know there's been a lot of people clamoring for
38:27
Speaker 1: something like that to happen, but they just don't have
38:30
Speaker 1: the jurisdiction here. And when you have a local investigation
38:35
Speaker 1: like this, where the murders occur in a local district,
38:38
Speaker 1: it's not a federal crime. So the federal government has
38:41
Speaker 1: no jurisdiction and to come over and take over the
38:44
Speaker 1: crime scene or the investigation. What they can do is
38:48
Speaker 1: offer some help. Now, if this turns into something more
38:52
Speaker 1: and spills over state lines, we have a serial killer situation,
38:56
Speaker 1: something like that, and you can connect this person, these murders,
38:59
Speaker 1: with something that has happened across state lines, then the
39:03
Speaker 1: FBI will take jurisdiction of it and they'll be in
39:06
Speaker 1: charge of the whole kit and caboodle. But as of now,
39:10
Speaker 1: they're just offering help, whether that be logistics or guidance
39:14
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be.
39:15
Speaker 2: That's what the FBI is there for.
39:18
Speaker 1: It's Chief Fry and his department who are the lead
39:22
Speaker 1: in this investigation. They're the ones that are carrying the ball.
39:26
Speaker 1: The FBI might be calling some of the plays, but
39:29
Speaker 1: the players on the field... that's the Moscow Police Department.
39:33
Speaker 1: So they're going to be the ones that have jurisdiction here.
39:36
Speaker 1: They're going to be the ones that continue this investigation.
39:40
Speaker 1: Let's jump into this article from Fox News and let's
39:43
Speaker 1: see what this ex-FBI agent has to say. Headline, Idaho Murders.
39:49
Speaker 1: Former FBI special agent explains why federal agency hasn't taken
39:54
Speaker 1: over the investigation. Jonathan Gilliam says FBI doesn't have jurisdiction
40:00
Speaker 1: in the Moscow case.
40:03
Speaker 2: This article was authored by Adam Sabes.
40:07
Speaker 1: More than five weeks have passed since four University of
40:10
Speaker 1: Idaho students were brutally stabbed to death in their Moscow,
40:14
Speaker 1: Idaho rental home and with no suspects publicly identified, Many
40:19
Speaker 1: are asking why the Federal Bureau of Investigation hasn't taken
40:22
Speaker 1: control over the homicide investigation. Well, people who are asking
40:27
Speaker 1: that are people who just don't really follow this kind
40:30
Speaker 1: of thing and don't understand how jurisdiction works. And that's okay.
40:34
Speaker 1: For some people, this is the first time they've followed
40:37
Speaker 1: a case like this. So they don't know that the
40:40
Speaker 1: FBI can't just step in and take over. You would
40:43
Speaker 1: think they could with the way they're always flexing and
40:46
Speaker 1: throwing their power around. But in this instance, this is
40:49
Speaker 1: not something where they can just come in and take
40:52
Speaker 1: the reins. The four University of Idaho students, Ethan Chapin,
40:57
Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodle, Madison Mogan, and Kaylee Gonsalves, were stabbed to death,
41:02
Speaker 1: likely while sleeping, on November 13th between 3 a.m.
41:06
Speaker 2: And 4 a.m.
41:07
Speaker 1: In a Moscow, Idaho home on King Road near the
41:11
Speaker 1: college campus, according to police. Former FBI Special Agent Jonathan
41:16
Speaker 1: Gilliam told Fox News Digital that the FBI can't assert
41:20
Speaker 1: control as the lead investigative agency because they don't have
41:24
Speaker 1: jurisdiction over the case.
41:26
Speaker 2: And he's not wrong about that.
41:28
Speaker 1: But I took a look at this guy's Twitter account
41:31
Speaker 1: And boy, oh boy, he has some opinions about this case.
41:34
Speaker 1: Calling like Kaylee Gonsalves' father a suspect, the family suspects,
41:38
Speaker 1: pretty wild stuff.
41:40
Speaker 2: You want to talk about people getting sued?
41:41
Speaker 1: Well, if I was the Gonsalves family, I'd certainly be
41:44
Speaker 1: looking at what this guy had to say. The FBI
41:48
Speaker 1: does not necessarily have jurisdiction in this case. That is
41:52
Speaker 1: the state case. And there's no federal nexus to this
41:55
Speaker 1: case at this point. There is no evidence that a
41:58
Speaker 1: killer went over state lines. There's no evidence that any
42:01
Speaker 1: abduction or anything with children was involved. You know, something
42:05
Speaker 1: that would rise to the level of the FBI taking
42:08
Speaker 1: over the case, Gilliam said. And that's all true. There
42:12
Speaker 1: would have to be some sort of state line issue
42:15
Speaker 1: like we talked about. That's how the FBI gets involved
42:18
Speaker 1: in stuff like this. They don't roll into, you know,
42:21
Speaker 1: a local jurisdiction and take over a murder unless it
42:25
Speaker 1: ties into something bigger for them. That's just not their,
42:29
Speaker 1: you know, charter. It's not what they do. Gilliam said
42:35
Speaker 1: that despite what people believe, the FBI can't just come
42:38
Speaker 1: in and wield their power and take over any state
42:41
Speaker 1: or local investigation. As an example, Gilliam said that if
42:46
Speaker 1: there was a serial killer and the state or local
42:49
Speaker 1: law enforcement agency couldn't handle the investigation, the FBI could
42:53
Speaker 1: take over with the approval from the Department of Justice.
42:58
Speaker 1: And that definitely has happened before. There's been situations where
43:01
Speaker 1: the local police, the local investigators had no shot at
43:06
Speaker 1: catching a serial killer or, you know, some depraved psychopath.
43:10
Speaker 1: So they have to call in the FBI and the
43:13
Speaker 1: FBI takes over. For instance, you got a situation like
43:15
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, where he's murdered people in multiple states, all
43:19
Speaker 1: kinds of craziness. Of course, the FBI is going to
43:22
Speaker 1: be all over that. But until there's some evidence of
43:26
Speaker 1: something like that taking place, it's very difficult for the
43:29
Speaker 1: FBI to come in and get jurisdiction. However, if the
43:34
Speaker 1: FBI had evidence that an individual who committed the crime
43:38
Speaker 1: also crossed state lines, the FBI could take jurisdiction, Gilliam said.
43:42
Speaker 1: And I don't think we can rule out the possibility
43:45
Speaker 1: that this is something like that.
43:48
Speaker 2: It could be a serial killer.
43:49
Speaker 1: It could be a deranged lunatic who was watching one
43:52
Speaker 1: or more of these housemates and decided that that night
43:56
Speaker 1: was the night to strike. Again, folks, we really just
43:59
Speaker 1: do not know. And me being so agnostic here about
44:03
Speaker 1: what happened, I'm ready to follow the evidence wherever it
44:06
Speaker 1: leads us. And if it leads us to a serial
44:09
Speaker 1: killer or a depraved lunatic, then hey, so be it.
44:13
Speaker 1: If it leads us to somebody that was in their circle,
44:16
Speaker 1: so be it. As long as it leads to somebody
44:19
Speaker 1: getting arrested. While the FBI has a presence in Moscow,
44:23
Speaker 1: Idaho for the homicide investigation, Gilliam says that they're not
44:27
Speaker 1: overstepping boundaries. When the FBI is following the lead of
44:31
Speaker 1: a local police department and they're invited, they can't overstep
44:34
Speaker 1: their boundaries. They can say this and they can say that,
44:38
Speaker 1: but the reality is the FBI does not have jurisdiction,
44:41
Speaker 1: Gilliam said. Oh, there's no doubt that the locals have jurisdiction,
44:46
Speaker 1: but I would hope that they'd have enough sense to
44:49
Speaker 1: to take their lead from the FBI, considering that this
44:52
Speaker 1: is a local department with no experience when it comes
44:55
Speaker 1: to homicide investigations. As of December 19th, officials say that
45:01
Speaker 1: there are 60 FBI personnel in Moscow and located throughout
45:05
Speaker 1: the United States, as well as two investigators with the
45:09
Speaker 1: agency's Behavioral Analysis Unit. Now, we all know that when
45:13
Speaker 1: BAU is out They're there to write up a profile
45:16
Speaker 1: to try and figure out what would motivate one of
45:19
Speaker 1: these killers or killers to do something like this. And
45:23
Speaker 1: there's nobody better in the business than the BAU. So
45:28
Speaker 1: hopefully with them on board, if it is the profile
45:31
Speaker 1: of a deranged lunatic and not somebody that was in
45:34
Speaker 1: their circle, hopefully they can build that profile and help
45:38
Speaker 1: the authorities move forward with finding whoever's responsible here. Because
45:43
Speaker 1: no matter what, whether it's a stranger or somebody in
45:46
Speaker 1: their circle, whoever did this is a very, very dangerous person.
45:51
Speaker 2: And they're still out there somewhere in some community.
45:55
Speaker 1: And if anyone's going to try and tell me that
45:56
Speaker 1: they're not capable of doing this again, I don't know
46:00
Speaker 1: what to say to you because they most certainly are.
46:04
Speaker 1: If you walked into a house and murdered four college
46:06
Speaker 1: students while they were sleeping, you are most certainly.
46:09
Speaker 2: Capable of great evil.
46:13
Speaker 1: Previously, police said the victims were each stabbed multiple times,
46:17
Speaker 1: adding that the attacker used a fixed blade knife. Prior
46:21
Speaker 1: to the murders, police say the four victims were at
46:24
Speaker 1: multiple places throughout Moscow before ultimately returning to the King
46:28
Speaker 1: Road house by 1.56 a.m. And now we still don't
46:33
Speaker 1: have a real timeline built for Zana and Ethan, and
46:37
Speaker 1: my guess is they were at that Sigma Chi house
46:39
Speaker 1: for the whole entire duration. That's pretty much what we've
46:42
Speaker 1: gotten so far. but we haven't seen any video or
46:45
Speaker 1: pictures or anything like that from their time at the
46:49
Speaker 1: frat house. And I find that a bit odd considering
46:52
Speaker 1: how often college kids are streaming and they're on their phones.
46:56
Speaker 1: You would think there'd be some video. Did the police
46:59
Speaker 1: seize that video and they're just not releasing it to
47:02
Speaker 1: the public yet as they go through it? Very possible.
47:06
Speaker 1: Kernodle and Chapin were at a Sigma Chi fraternity party
47:09
Speaker 1: on campus on the night of November 12th and didn't
47:12
Speaker 1: return home until 1.45 a.m. on November 13th. Mogan and
47:17
Speaker 1: Gonsalves were both seen on a Twitch feed at Moscow's
47:21
Speaker 1: Grub Wandering Kitchen's food truck at 1.40 a.m. The pair
47:25
Speaker 1: arrived at the King Road home at 1.56 a.m. after
47:29
Speaker 1: being transported by a private party who police don't consider
47:34
Speaker 1: a suspect. Investigators are still searching for a white 2011
47:41
Speaker 1: through 2013 Hyundai Elantra that was seen near the scene
47:45
Speaker 1: of the crime in the early morning hours of November 13th.
47:51
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of emails about jurisdiction, so I
47:54
Speaker 1: figured this would be a great article to add to
47:56
Speaker 1: the catalog.
47:57
Speaker 2: Because it's a good question, right?
47:59
Speaker 1: People want to know why the FBI, the best investigators
48:02
Speaker 1: in the country, aren't the lead here. Well, there's other
48:05
Speaker 1: things that go into it, jurisdiction and how these things
48:09
Speaker 1: are managed as far as process and as far as law.
48:14
Speaker 1: So hopefully that added a little bit of clarity for
48:16
Speaker 1: those of you out there who might not have, you know,
48:18
Speaker 1: understood why the FBI wasn't the lead body in charge
48:23
Speaker 1: of this investigation.
48:25
Speaker 2: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
48:27
Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
48:29
Speaker 1: at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can
48:39
Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The
48:46
Speaker 1: link that I discussed can be found in the description box. Cheers.