Latest / Let Them Fly - Heather Harries Ed Hub / Sleep is in the detail with celebrity nanny - Anna Baker

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Sleep is in the detail with celebrity nanny - Anna Baker · Let Them Fly - Heather Harries Ed Hub

0:18
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Let Them Fly with me, Heather Harris.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: If you're a parent, you'll know that Quiet Worry, are my children on the right path?
0:29
SPEAKER_00: This pod is the podcast that gently reminds you to believe a little bit more in our children and their wonderful ability to surprise us because no one is born great and so few of us follow the path that we first imagined.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: We hope to inspire you, reassure you, and give you the quiet confidence to trust a little bit more and just let your children fly.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: So today it's my joy to welcome Anna Baker, who is founder of Sleepmaker, which is one of Australia's leading baby and child sleep consultancies with more than a decade of experience and a regular voice on Australian television and radio, a mum of two herself.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: She knows firsthand the exhaustion of sleepless nights while juggling work and parenting.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Anna, and thank you so much for joining us.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's such a good intro.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: I feel really special.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: You are very special.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: And all the way fresh off the plane from Australia.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: You're sort of juggling jet lag as well as um everything else.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, what's jet lag these days?
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: I I suffer from jet lag quite a lot.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: So, what I want to ask you first of all, what do you wish every exhausted parent knew before they lost hope?
1:41
SPEAKER_00: That you don't have to be exhausted.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: There is hope, right?
1:44
SPEAKER_01: You actually just said it.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Look, I guess it's about giving parents the confidence and teaching their child that they can learn how to sleep.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: And how do you do that?
1:52
SPEAKER_00: How that's that that's like that sounds so simple.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: You made that sound like it was just a one-off, but that's not simple.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so are you ready for the secret?
1:59
SPEAKER_01: Go on, tell me.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Consistency.
2:01
unknown: Okay.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: And it sounds so easy, right?
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Because it is.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: And I think as um as parents, we have to teach our kid boundaries.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think the hardest thing is for parents to follow through with those boundaries.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: So if you can be consistent, your child will know what to expect.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: I think consistency is a really easy word if you're not tired.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: And you know, parents do so well up until they reach 2 a.m.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: And then it all kind of falls apart.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, if a kid is going to get gastro or vomiting, it happens anytime after 2 a.m.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Always.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: Of course, yes.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I I we've had this conversation before where I've sort of said, you know, I remember walking around the house for hours with my son and he just would not sleep.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: There was nothing I could do to make him sleep.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: I wish I'd known you then.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: And look, I always say to my clients, you know, as it is, if you want to co-sleep, that's absolutely fine.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: If you want to rock your child to sleep, that's fine.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: It's only a problem if it becomes a problem for you.
2:53
unknown: Okay.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: When things stop working, that's when you call me.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I like that.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Yes, because you're right.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you're right.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, what does a good sleep actually do for a child?
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Not the parent, the child.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh, how much time do I have?
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Could you imagine how they're going to be in class when somebody is teaching them how they're going to be able to regulate, they're going to be able to retain that information.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: They're going to be able to have friendship groups, but they're going to be able to get through the entire day.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: Now, don't get me wrong, because this is all age-based, right?
3:22
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, if you have a child that's going to daycare, of course they're going to have a tantrum in the afternoon when mom and dad pick them up because they are tired, right?
3:29
SPEAKER_01: But I guess more importantly, especially being in education yourself, is you want them to learn and remember what they learned.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: And that is where good quality sleep comes in.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: So when we're talking about sleep training and good quality sleep, where does that start?
3:45
SPEAKER_01: Age-wise?
3:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, look, I tell parents when they come home from hospital, do not worry about a routine.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: I want you eating, I want you drinking water, and I want you sleeping when the baby sleeps.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Easier said than done, right?
3:55
SPEAKER_01: But I think parents don't realize that you can actually start training your baby around six months to sleep.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: And parents get really scared because they think that all sleep consultants are going to do the cry it out method, which it's not about that, right?
4:08
SPEAKER_01: You can put gentle guidance into your child to teach them how to sleep.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: And the more work that you put into a child sleeping, you're going to find really good sleepers because you have a short amount of time to teach that skill.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing worse than having an anxious eight-year-old that rolls over into a teenager that's not sleeping, that rolls over into an adult that says, I'm just naturally a bad sleeper.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: Because then I'm like, oh, how did you sleep as a child?
4:32
SPEAKER_01: And all the same, oh, I didn't really.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times, even 20 years ago, parents just thought it was a normal if their child wasn't sleeping.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: And have we seen an increase in lower sleeping since we've got electronics and iPads?
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I mean, I could go on that could be a whole separate podcast for me, right?
4:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, during COVID, we took our most bookings after because there were so many kids going to sleep with an iPad.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: No.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, I did um I did a school in Australia when I asked how many kids go to bed at their phones.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: And I want to say 90% of them rate, like, you know, or they could watch it on their Apple iWatch, or but yeah, technology plays a huge role.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: Kids get overstimulated, and then parents expect when you take it away, they're gonna go to sleep in 10 minutes.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, it just doesn't work like that.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: You're clearly an absolute expert on sleep.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what an what an amazing um concept to be an expert on.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: How did you find this you're to be your calling?
5:24
SPEAKER_01: So I took a job working for Russell Crowe and I was with him for about four years.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: And then when I finished, I kind of went around to different families and I kept seeing the same pattern.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: I'd get to work at the morning, and I'm a very happy, fun, bubbly person.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: Hi, good morning.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: How are you?
5:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm here to help out today.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Oh, I didn't sleep at the well last night.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: So I kind of saw something in the market where if you're not sleeping at night, how can you function during the day?
5:46
SPEAKER_01: It's the same for adults, right?
5:47
SPEAKER_01: We're going to work.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: You're more likely to be overtired, um, haven't had sleep in weeks, and you're gonna make mistakes.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna be mistakes that cost you your job or that cost you money.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's not just about putting the kids asleep, it's having the whole family well rested.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: We're looking out for mental health, like sleep deprivation sneaks up on you so quick.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: So you just dropped Russell Crowe into the conversation.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry, just so how did you end up working for him?
6:10
SPEAKER_00: What were you doing in order to get to jump with him?
6:12
SPEAKER_01: So I was working for a doctor in the States and they went to this Christmas party and they said to me, Oh, Anna, Russell Crowe's looking for a nanny.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: I actually took out my Apple phone.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Who is Russell Crowe?
6:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: So and then it just was so quick.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: They called me for an interview.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: I flew to LA.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, their boys were, I think, two, no, 18 months and about four.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: And the next thing I know, I was on a flight back to Australia, and that's essentially where my home.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: 20 years later, I'm still there and still connected to the family, and it's beautiful.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely amazing.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: And had you been a trained nanny, or how did you get, I mean, how did you get from where you were to working for Russell Crowe to just great question.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: So I was just I was a nanny back home, and I was actually wanting to go to school to become a doctor.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: And then when I got this job with Russell, I was like, okay.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I'm so happy because he taught me that when somebody says jump, you say how high.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: And it's a skill that I don't think I could have gone to university for.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: It you're always under the pump, you're under pressure, you're under the public eye, and it's a job that you know, you just you never tell somebody no.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where I learned my work ethics today.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, amazing.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: And you're still so you're still connected.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: And from him, what did you go on and do after that?
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, I did a lot of casual work.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's when I kind of found the, you know, in the market for, you know, parents not sleeping at night.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: I then I then went back to school.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I decided I wanted to just see what else was out there.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: I studied reflux because that's massive in Australia.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Do babies have reflux here?
7:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't seem to get many appointments, but in Australia, it's huge.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I just traveled the world doing what I do, just selling sleep.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's just a very, it's a very strange thing to become a specialist in.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I guess for me, I'm all about solutions and I want an outcome, right?
8:05
SPEAKER_01: So I love it when a parent says to me, Anna, I've got the hardest baby for you.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, good luck.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, bring it on, right?
8:11
SPEAKER_01: So that is what I love working with.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because I'll say to a parent, if you have a six-month-old and a three-year-old, who do you think's gonna protest longer?
8:19
SPEAKER_01: Who do you think?
8:21
SPEAKER_01: That six-month-old.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Really?
8:22
SPEAKER_01: It's unbelievable.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Happens every time.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: I think a three-year-old realizes, okay, this is the new pattern, and they actually get tired and then they go to sleep.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Whereas a six-month-old is like, I'm just gonna keep going.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: It's like energizer bunny.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: So do not let them fool you.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: Um I just wish I'd known you.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Like 27 years ago, you would have been.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: Do you know I hear the all the time?
8:42
SPEAKER_01: I hear this all the time from grandparents, and it's funny because the majority of our bookings now are paid for by the grandparents, which is really, really lovely.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Is that because grandparents are doing more kind of sleepovers, more babysitting, or are they just worried about their children?
8:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't think that they want to do the nights.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Right?
8:58
SPEAKER_01: And it's actually, I say to them, don't do the nights, let us do them.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Because you have to realize if they're not sleeping, they're more likely to have a fall.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: So we we come in, we offer the nights, but it's it's more than just being a night nanny, right?
9:10
SPEAKER_01: We're there that if a baby doesn't need to feed, we're going to teach the parents how to settle them back to sleep and connect the sleep cycles.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's where um, you know, we specialize in.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: So your team don't sleep.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: Your team are probably in need of sleep consultants.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: I know, isn't it really funny?
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Like people are like, how much hours do you get on it?
9:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, don't look up my iWatch, you know, because it will tell you that I failed like the week straight.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: My sleep dents went to the case.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: Whereas last night I absolutely nailed 90% of sleep.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's funny.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: Here I am telling people to sleep, but yet I'm not sleeping.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: So I can't catch 22.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you get used to it unsadly.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: You get it.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, I think it's also like a gift.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm high functioning ADHD.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: And if I actually slept for 12 hours, I would wake up with a headache.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: So I actually do best with less sleep.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: Don't tell that to the kids.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not mentioning that.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: So, what's the biggest myth about um baby sleep that you wish would just disappear?
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think parents just think, oh, my child is going to outgrow it and they'll become great sleepers.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: But it just doesn't happen like that.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: Again, you have to teach them, and it's nothing that you it doesn't have to be mean, right?
10:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a real misconception as well, because people just think we're gonna let your child cry it out, but it's about giving them the skill and they are going to go through separation anxiety, but you want to teach them how to handle that.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: Children nowadays are very different because I find that parents don't follow through with their own boundaries, and that's where that it's not going to work, or then you have the child that's running the house.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and we see that a lot.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: I I watch some of sometimes watch these super nanny programs.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love those with jokes.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, but it's very easy when you look in than when rather than when you're in it, I'm sure.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, look, we go into houses, it's really raw.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: We have, you know, parents that are fighting.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: There's it's screaming going on with the kids, it's complete chaos.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: And I love the fact that parents trust us into their house so that we can help them sleep.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes, indeed.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: And and and love, and you're seeing them probably at the most vulnerable time.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: You mentioned earlier um separation anxiety.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Is that the main crux of why children cry at night?
11:07
SPEAKER_01: No, because they just don't know.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Right?
11:10
SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, for some parents, I've I've gone into houses where their bedrooms are super hot.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, of course a child's not gonna sleep.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, they wake up in the morning, a bird wakes them up at 4 30 because it's peeking through like the window and the light's coming in.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's, you know, for some parents, they don't know.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Like quick changes actually do it have good results.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: So having that dark space, having white noise, and making sure that the room isn't too hot.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Babies prefer to sleep in the cold.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Just make sure they're bundled up.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: So can you so would you go into somebody's room, somebody's house and look at a child's room and sort of say, well, that's that and that's that, and actually we change this, you'll see a different straight.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have been into a room where a two-year-old had a TV on the wall.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: It was like bigger than the one at my house.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: No.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just saying to the parents, you actually don't need that.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
11:55
SPEAKER_01: It's simple, like just a white noise machine.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: You don't need these huge machines, something so small and compact.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: And I just, yeah, there's a lot of products on the market these days, but I am just keep it simple.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I I know.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: I I saw um one of my friends had a baby recently, and I just went into a baby shop to get some a present for her.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, it was like, wow, 20 years ago, yeah, there wasn't this available.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: I know, even with my kids, like they've now they have the formula machine, you can push it and make you a bottle.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: It's better than my espresso machine, right?
12:23
SPEAKER_01: So they have everything.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: I never had that with my kids.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Imagine that at three o'clock in the morning.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just it's yeah, worth thinking about.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: So I know sleep training, and we touched on it just a few minutes ago, and it really just frightened quite a lot of people.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And parents are sort of, you know, that cry it out method, and and it's cruel.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: What does your version look like?
12:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I love the Ferber method, with which is based on time, right?
12:47
SPEAKER_01: But if you did it 100% the correct way, you'd be leaving your child for about 30 minutes, which I'm not going to do.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't even do that for an eight-year-old because children need reassurance.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: So it's about giving them time to learn how to settle, but walking in, spending time with them, and walking back out, right?
13:02
SPEAKER_01: So you might walk in their room every two minutes for 90 minutes before they fall asleep, right?
13:08
SPEAKER_01: I would rather you go to them more often than not go to them at them all.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: And it takes longer when you go in and out.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: And that's where we become so successful.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: The baby knows that, you know, open the door, walk to them, don't sneak in there and pat, pat, pat, and then walk out.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Open the door, walk in, let them know that you're there, and then walk back out again.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: But not pick them up.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: But not pick them up.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: But it's it's all age-based, right?
13:28
SPEAKER_01: So if you have a baby who's four months, I would say pick them up.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: But if you have a baby anywhere over six months, you just have to, you just kind of have to see how you're going in the night.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: Some babies do need that reassurance, whether it's picking them up and putting down.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I guess don't get caught up with chat GPT at 3 a.m.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: and trying eight different methods in one night.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Stick with one, be consistent for a week.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: And I can guarantee you it's gonna work.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: That's right, my favorite word, consistency.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: And um, when a child won't sleep, like literally won't sleep, is there something else going on?
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Look, we need to look at the factors.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: How we we look at mouth breathing, we look at if your child is on the spectrum or ADHD.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we have the parents fill out new client forms and they're pretty honest, and we can kind of pick up, like one mom said to me, Oh, my child gets stomach aches at night.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, then the first thing I think of is reflux, right?
14:20
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, going into that family, we realized that the mom was overfeeding, well, which triggered the reflux.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, sometimes we get parents who don't want their kids to roll, and they we had this one mom put a belt through the cot so the baby wouldn't roll.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Because when the baby rolled, then the mom's like, well, then I had to go in there and roll the baby back.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: So it was, you know, I was like, okay, well, we can't, that's just not safe sleep, right?
14:43
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's like saying to the parents, do lots of tummy time.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Tummy time is so good for babies, even newborns, right?
14:49
SPEAKER_01: They get a bit bored, they're sleeping a lot, feed them a bottle, do some safe tummy time where you're sitting next to them.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so I think it's just giving parents the confidence because when a baby rolls, that's them, that's a massive scare factor for parents.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: And where are we now?
15:02
SPEAKER_00: In in terms of are babies supposed to sleep on the back or on their tummies?
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, my insurance policy says on their back.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: But anywhere from four months, they are gonna roll to their tummy, and it's the natural sleeping position for them.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Because I know I'm when my kids were little, I'm sure it was tummies.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely my mom would tell you the same.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: So we start by putting them on their back, and then if they roll to their tummy, that's great.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: We help them out on their tummy and we teach them how to like their tummy.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: But I guess for a child under 12 months, we would never naturally put them on their tummy.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: We let them roll.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: I it just it changes.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: It changes so often, right?
15:33
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: And every time you just and I I know that I'm again again, this friend had a baby, and she's like, You can't do that.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh, there's a lot of rules now.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure this one used to do, but clearly you're not.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: And I've said, in fact, I was watching a video this morning and it was a doctor showing a mum how to pick a child up, and I thought, I just pick them up, you know.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you could probably pick up two.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, stack them, yes.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, so parents raising, uh many parents are obviously raising babies away from grandparents, and a bit, a bit like I just said, you know, the the sort of advice keeps changing.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: What changes for a parent when they've got no village around to help them?
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's hard.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I look at parents who get postnatal depression, right?
16:11
SPEAKER_01: So I guess it's find your village, whether it's somebody online, it's somebody in the community, but it there's nothing worse than doing parenting alone.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Like I have a 15-year-old and I went through a really hard stage with him.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: He was constantly on his phone, but then you need it because he's walking home from school, right?
16:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, all his friends at school have social media besides my son.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh, right?
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, then I found out that my son got social media.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: So can you imagine how I felt, right?
16:38
SPEAKER_01: So, and when I reached out to my friends in the and in the community, everyone, it was like normal.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: Of course they're gonna have it.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: So I really had to stand strong and be like, well, I'm not having it.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the hardest things is to follow through with your own boundaries because that definitely tested me.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: It it's very, I think it's very hard.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: I think being a parent in this generation is probably the hardest parenting we've ever done.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: And boundaries are difficult and just the whole sort of remaining.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: What age do you give help support up to for children?
17:10
SPEAKER_01: Newborn to age eight.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'll just touch on that.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: It's really hard these days.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: I have a love-hate relationship with social media, right?
17:18
SPEAKER_01: So I had a lady call me that said, Anna, I really want you to sleep train my child, but I don't want the no-cry method.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, well, Tanya, I've never mastered that.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Your child's gonna cry.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: They're naturally going to cry because they're doing something new that they don't like it.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: So that's their way of communicating.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: But then she said to me, But I found somebody online that does the no-cry method.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, you're gonna have to go to them because I have not mastered that.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Lo and behold, she came back to me.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: I want you to go to them, tell me how they did it.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's actually quite funny because when they come into your house, they make the parents leave.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: So, how are they gonna know if your child I would never do that?
17:51
SPEAKER_01: I want the parents to be home when I'm there.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: I want them to see what their child went through.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: I want them to hear it, and I want to give them the confidence to do exactly what I'm doing so that they can be consistent.
18:01
unknown: Yeah.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: And what's your view on um children sleeping in the afternoon?
18:05
SPEAKER_00: Is there is there a right or wrong?
18:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: Everybody needs a little siesta.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
18:11
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna help them regulate, especially, you know, I hear a lot like, oh, if I keep a child up all day, especially the, you know, at education centers, that they're gonna sleep well.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: No, it doesn't work like that.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna get overtired.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of parents will say, if you put my child to sleep during the day, they're gonna stay up till 9 p.m.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: They're not.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: You just need to find the right time.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Don't put the child to bed at 3 p.m.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: sleeping till 5.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Of course they're not gonna go to bed at seven, right?
18:33
SPEAKER_01: So I think if even if you get 45 minutes in, it means that your child probably won't fall asleep on the way home.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: And they're probably going to be able to regulate at dinner time because that dinner bath bed is hard work.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: That is the highest level of chaos.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about it.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: I did it with three kids and my husband traveled, was never home, and it was almost like that.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: It was a dread.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: That was an absolute dread.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: And quite often I hear um parents talk about there's one particular hour in a day where children just cry automatically.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Is that true?
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes, the witching hours.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: I think my 11-year-old still goes through that.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: That's from about 4 p.m.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: till 11 p.m., right?
19:09
SPEAKER_01: And again, they're tired, they're ready for bed, and sometimes they go to bed and they're overtired.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes kids have night terrors that first half of the night.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that time is true.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: And I see it a lot in newborns to four months.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: I I remember my net my um niece.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: It's like I say I was like, they're hungry, okay, just feed him, dinner bath bed.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, exactly.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, and when we're talking about obviously you've just come from Australia, traveling, lots of parents at the moment are packing up, ready to go on holiday.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Sleeping in time.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh, are you ready for the best advice ever?
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay, tell me.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh, because this is another question we get asked all the time on email.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: When you get to that new time zone, that is when you start your routine.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: Don't try to go back on Dubai time.
19:50
unknown: Okay.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Right?
19:51
SPEAKER_01: So if you go to France, whatever time it is there, that's when you start.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: So if you land at six o'clock in the morning, start your routine at 6 a.m.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: If they're having a nap at 9:30, put them down.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: If they don't sleep, try.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Get them up at the normal time, push through the day, and then their next nap.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: But I think what happens is parents land and they're like, it's five o'clock, six o'clock.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, like way too hard.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: Focus on the time zone that you're in.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, and in terms of we touched very briefly on food and bed.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Is it lighter suppers at night?
20:22
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, say that is.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Is it a lighter supper, a lighter, a lighter dinner, less to eat before they go to sleep?
20:27
SPEAKER_01: Not really.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I guess it just kind of depends on like what age of kid you have.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: But um, for the most part, there we want them eating three meals a day.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: If you want to feed to sleep, I'm okay with that.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: Just when a child wakes up, you you want to help them with healthy methods of putting them back to sleep.
20:41
unknown: Yeah, yeah.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that means without a bottle.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: And you've arrived, also arrived in Dubai to set up.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: How close are you to helping families here?
20:50
SPEAKER_00: Have you started?
20:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we've started my last trip.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: So it's great.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: It might even mean they need a consultation over the phone.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes, you know, as a new business, they it's all about trust.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: They need to see who you are, what we offer, and what makes us stand out.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: And I think building being here and building that trust is the only way that you're going to be successful in Dubai.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: You've got a team on the ground.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: And you train them personally?
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: So they come as sleep consultants and then I train them because I want it done my way.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: That's what it should be.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so so much for joining us today, Anna.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Sleepbaker.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, if they want to know more about you, obviously Instagram.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or they can go to sleepbaker.com.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: And I just have one more question that I throw as a curved ball to everyone.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: Everything you know where you are now, if you can give your seven-year-old one piece of advice and go back in time, what would that one piece of advice you'd give yourself?
21:42
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, that is a curved ball.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: I think I'd say uh just be kind.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's something that I always say to my kids when they get out, have a great day, but kindness goes so far.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, you're heading back shortly.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: But I'll be back.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: But you'll be back.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm here every month.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: And you start you you arrive here permanently.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: So we're here every two weeks in Dubai, but my team is always on the ground here.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: So we just rotate with different consultants.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Lovely.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.