Latest / Pod Therapy / #398: Self Doubting Therapist, Sisters Domestic Violence, Obligation to Father

Transcript

#398: Self Doubting Therapist, Sisters Domestic Violence, Obligation to Father · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Why would you think I would read that? Why do
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: you think I would read the same thing you read.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I thought you just read it for fun.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I learned things in school. Prob This is pod therapy,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: real people, real problems, and real therapists. You give some
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of your questions anonymously at podtherapy dot net or emails
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com. From the churn,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: that's me and that's Whitney, and Jem's not here.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: So here's the thing.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I can't unlock my computer. It's it's too many no
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: what what it is is. It's like the numbers at
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: the top four, five, six, seven, eight nine don't work anymore,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: and we have to really hard, and you're gonna have
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: to get a bluetooth keyboard for your existing laptop keyboard.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Luckily it's it's touch screen, okay, but I just can't
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: put it in fast enough. So when you play then
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Fast with his hands.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: No, Jim jobing tonight. We just found out at the
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: last minute that Jim's not here. We hope Jim's okay.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: We assume that he's not. Yeah, I mean we assume.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: That there is I assume that every day we assume.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: There is a huge tale of woe being written right now, Yes,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: that we will all hear about later. Yes. Also, we're
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: supposed to do a double tonight. I bet we won't
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: do a double now. Yeah, yeah, I bet we don't.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I bet we'll just do the one now.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: That's fine.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Then we'll make Jim do a double later. Yeah, we
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: could almost not do the one. Good night, everybody. I
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: guess we're done.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: We just drink whiskey.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Jacob now has the scription so excellent, So thank everybody,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you all for joining us for this wonderful episode
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: that we are going to throw together. Let's see how
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: this goes. It's gonna be good stuff. I mean, if
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Gym's not here, that's fine. I can prepare myself. I
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: can be like, okay, so obviously I'm gonna have to
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: carry the episode.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Right we're already, which I'm fine to do.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm a professional. I've been doing this now
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: for years.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah how many?
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: A number of years? A number more than two Okay
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: more than two years? Sure, so but yeah, speaking of
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: podcast news, maybe I'm not supposed to talk about this yet.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be a guest on another podcast this
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: other podcast have a name. I think, I think here's
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: the thing. I don't know the name of it. It
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: is it is, it is, it is about it? I
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: don't I don't have that information, don't know the name.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I should have podcast? You know what? I should have
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: not even started to tell we're here.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: We're here.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Is a shame that Whitney and I brought this topic.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Outing next to the profession.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: No, it is tangentially related related yep. And it's about music, okay.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: So it's all about talking about people's experiences with music, like, oh,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: I got stories. I'm so that'll be fun, very very excited.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I will have more. Do I know the host next week?
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: You do? Okay? Okay, I think I know what are
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: you talking about that? I don't think you do. I
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: don't okay, I don't think so.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Maybe he doesn't know the name.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: So we don't know because I didn't even know this
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: podcast existed until very I don't know why we're being coy.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Is it Ready's podcast? It is not? Okay? No, I
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: don't know Ready. Okay, I mean I've met him once,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: but I know yeah, Ready Rich Records Penn Sunday School. Uh.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: He has a podcast that he's been working on called
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I Believe Stereo Image and uh. He does a deep
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: dive into different like music type and uh and like
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: music that was important to people as they were going
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: through different times in their lives and that kind of thing.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: But it talks music. Oh yeah, yeah, sounds very similar
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: to the show that you're going on. Very similar. Yeah yeah,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: maybe you could just share that interview with Ready. He
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: can just post it. He can just like in post
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: put himself in asking the questions. That's a green idea. There,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I go. All right. We got a letter today from
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: doubting myself as a therapist. Hello, I am a longtime
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: listener and have even submitted questions regarding advice from the
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Three Stooges and Whitney. Well, I don't even know who
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: you mean by that. I mean there's Nick, there's Jim.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I mean they're Stooges, and there's Whitney. I mean you
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: clearly don't mean Whitney. And the only person on the
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: show is me. I mean you couldn't mean me. So
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I just don't know what you mean. I guess I'll
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: just move on. I guess I only have the letter
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: to go on, so I don't have any more information.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I am a licensed mental health clinical counselor for over
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: a year and have been practicing for four years. I
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: still find myself thinking what the fuck am I doing?
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: As I continue to prectice in an independent substance abuse
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: treatment center, oh, sorry, a patient treatment abuse or patient
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: substance abuse treatment center. I love what I do and
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I love the population I serve. I do not see
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: myself going anywhere. However, at times we get tough cases
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: that make me question my abilities and knowledge. For example,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I have a patient that is diagnosed with alcohol alcoholism
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: use disorder PTSD and obsessive compulsive and related disorder hoarding.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I can understand how these three illnesses correlate with each other. However,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: when I am with the patient practicing CBT or DBT,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: what are those things? Cognitive behavioral therapy therapy or dialectic
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: behavioral therapy. And we've talked about CBT. Uh, some would
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: say a nauseum on this show, Uh, what about DBT?
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: What is DBT? DBT was actually created more for uh,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: borderline personality disorders, Marshall Lenihan, I believe created that Have
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: you ever used it?
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I haven't. There was a therapist I worked without that
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: agency worked out together who was very into it working
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: with teens imposter care.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: But I never would that be for the PTSD and
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: or OCD.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: I do think the OCD, that that's what I was
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: going to. DEBT will help a lot with CD traits.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: So okay, yeah, I mean I've read a little bit
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: on DBT.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Like like riding the wave of anxiety and things like
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: that instead of resisting it, like it really feeds into
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: those types of things.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Gotcha. So I can understand how these three illnesses correlate
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: with each other. However, when I am with the patient
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: practicing CBT or DBT or trauma focused therapy, it seems
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: like she does not open up, she shuts me down
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: and can manipulate me with her cute old lady self.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: This is followed with negative talk to myself and questioning
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: my confidence as a professional in the field. Any advice
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: or ideas how to help this patient in this particular
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: scenario would be just fabulous. I appreciate any inhuman ideas
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: you may have. I believe that I believe that says
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: in humane. Side note, I appreciate the many laughs and
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: giggles your program has to offer and the advice you've
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: given me in my previous questions. Keep up the good work, Whitney.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I'm a forever fan. Just kidding. Jacob is cool and
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: the other guy you pick which one? Sincerely, baby therapist
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: in Minnesota, Minnesota. Oh yeah, you bet you.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: We have that conversation.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I think we got some feedback for you. Yeah. I
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: like to compare it to snowmobiling.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Oh I love text analogy.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: No, I just I just wanted to find a way
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: to work in. Speaking of Speaking of which, hang on rider,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: just sit tight for a moment. Spam texts are getting crazy. Yeah, okay,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I've gotten to in the last two days. One of
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: them was just do you have the minutes to talk? Okay? Yeah,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: And somehow they you was Gym's phone number for that?
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I reported it. I don't
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: know what the deal is. But no. The other one
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: that I got today, how about a fishing trip tomorrow?
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: The weather's perfect for it.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Okay. Do you see these reddity Yes? Yes, and then.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: You know it jokes on you a fishing.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Trip respond to them and then they'll say, oh, I'm
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: so sorry, wrong number, and then they're like but.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Then I wonder about the catches, because somehow that's going
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: to be and it might just be like a fishing
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: to try to see is this phone number active type thing?
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I follow? There's a page on Reddit. I look at
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: the people respond to those types of texts, and they
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: just troll the ship out of the right person. It
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: was fun, hilarious.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I wish I had the time to do that. I
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: got one yesterday that was just are you working tonight?
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Oh wow?
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: And the bad thing is I assumed that that was.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: That was me didn't respond.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: You have blocked and reported? All right?
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Back to the right, All right, patient, they see we
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: have alcoholism use disorder PTSD and OCD related for hoarding.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: She's a little old lady, Is that what I'm yep?
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I wonder how old they say old days. She's probably forty.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's six months younger than witness.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: How can that be I'm only twenty three.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: She shuts me down and can manipulate me with her
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: cute old lady's self.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: That part like this this woman, I'm going to just
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: assume that it is in fact an old lady. This
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: woman has been dealing with other people like yourself. Oh yeah,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: for longer than you have been a practicing therapist. Yeah.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: So the fact that this woman is just better at
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: this than you are, and is better at having this
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: conversation that she has had many times throughout her life
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: and you've never had before, not with her like she
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: knows what she's doing because she's done this already. Yep,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: don't feel bad about that part. Yeah, I can say
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: to that, the you know, kind of doubting yourself thing,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I that doesn't necessarily go away. That is it probably
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be. It's I don't think it should. I mean,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: if you think you're perfect, then something's probably wrong.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: There's way too many things to know. Quote unquote No,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: as a clinician, it's just damn near impossible. You can't.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: You got to pick your lane a little bit like
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: your realm. I would say, exactly.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: And you know, I've been in working in the field
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: of substance use disorder treatment for twenty years now.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I know how can that be? You're only twenty five
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: so born into this.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, yeah, so, and and I'll tell you
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: like I feel like, and it's going to be sound
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: very arrogant.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm very very good at what I do.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I would agree as a as a no fuck no
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: good if I was good at golf, you would I
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: That's all I talk about.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I can't I can't imagine Nick like entering the zen
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: zone when he's with a client like this and just
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Tony and like, I know exactly what to do with
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: your last right now, Like we're not.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: To like Jedi about like therapy.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Out of you, Like I don't know Jedi mind trick.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: This, yeah, but I mean, and it's just it's just
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: years of doing it, you just get and then and
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: every time you just learn something new. So I tried
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: to learn something new from every interaction I had with
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: a client. And you know, over you know, fifteen twenty
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: years of doing that, you just keep the good stuff
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: and get rid of the bad stuff, and you just
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: get better as you go. But I will tell you,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: for as much confidence as I have in my skills
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: as a drug and alcohol counselor, even in the last
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: few years of doing it, when I was doing clinical work,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: there was always going to a case that came up
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: that's like, oh shit, I don't know if I'm ready
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: for this.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Just kind of knocks you over a little yeah.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And it's usually these like crazy situations that happen where
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's four am, we got this new intake.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: They just came in and they're actively psychotic. What do
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: we do? Ye and yes, and it's like, okay, well,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I'm the clinical director. I got to make a call here,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I got to figure this out. Is this is this
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: mental health or is this bath salts? You know, what
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: is it exactly that's happening, you know. And so there's
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: situations like that where I feel like I feel like
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: in a situation. In that situation, are you also the
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: one who is kind of making the call on whether
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: to call nine one one sometimes okay or or yeah,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: doing a you know, or contacting our psychiatrist to do
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: a legal hold or something like that, or referring them
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: out someplace. And then it's usually an argument because if
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: you're working for a for profit treatment center, you know,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, we're not capable to deal with
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: this individual. We need to refer them out. And then
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Upper Mansion is not like that because that's that's money
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: walk out the door. Ah. Yeah, So they're like, yeah,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: we can handle that, we can You guys are good,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: you can your skill, We're not whoa, you can't do this?
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: What is what is the objection that the upper management
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: has to calling the ambulance Cian leaves and you can't
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: bill for that day? That's it.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: So you've been paying people to meet with them to
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: maybe like Nick's now getting paid to be on this
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: call all that, but the person leaves and doesn't.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you still have your you still have your expenses.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Your expenses for the day are always going to be right.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: But now this person who maybe has good insurance is
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: now not at your facility.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: It may not come back after they may refirm somewhere else, and.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: You have to you have to remember too that with
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: some of these like for profit treatment centers where they're
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: billing private insurance, we're talking thousands of dollars a day, gotcha. Yeah,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: so it's it's a big deal when they're not there.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean that's a whole nother thing. But
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: but it's not like it's not the treatment center is
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: has like its own insurance or something that is paying
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the hospital bill. Is that titling like that? Okay, they're
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: not losing money, they're not making money. It's just a
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: lack of income. Gotcha, Yeah, exactly, So you got all
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the expenses in no income. Come again, Yeah.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: I My go to was the biggest help when I
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: was a baby therapist or and even just starting out
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: after being licensed, is having people to staff clients with,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: like either a supervisor or another colleague, like someone to
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: kind of call. I still do that, you know, if
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I get stuck with a client, like, hey, we're kind
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: of spinning or spinning in circles or whatever, like I
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: feel like I'm not really helping them and starting to
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: let those thoughts creep in, like gosh, am I even
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: good at what I do? Or why am I stuck?
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: And having someone else's perspective can be really helpful. And
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: someone who maybe has more experience than you that can
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: be really helpful too. So that was one of the
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: things I was going to ask. And I'm sure you're
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: already doing this. If you're at an impatient facility, like
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: there's rounds or something. I don't know if you'll do
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: that at substance.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Not necessarily. I mean, it kind of depends on the
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: program itself. But you know, if it's a if it's
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: residential and the writer uses inpatient and there's actually a
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: difference between inpatient residence.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: We should talk about that.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so like residential is clinically managed, whereas inpatient is
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: medically managed. And so if okay, if there's not a
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: medical team there, it's you know, residential. I've worked in
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: both and quit bragging.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Doctor Jacobs here.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: And so it's I've worked at both everything. But but
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: the residential programs, you know, you don't it seems like
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: there's a lot less of that because you don't have
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: the medical component like that, Like the medical component seems
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: to have a lot better grasp by think on like
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: supervision and case staff in case consultation and stuff like that.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Is that just because there's more laws basically surrounding the medication, kid,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: My guess is I feel like it's more just training. Okay,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: it's because like that's kind of part of that environment
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: that they were trained in that this is what you do, gotcha,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: you know, and you kind of communicate and you've got
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: to share information and all that. And then whereas residential,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: do they have more training than someone who might be
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: working kind of a similar position in residently, not necessarily more,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: It's more about just a different mindset or a different philosophy.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff and this just drives me
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: up the wall. There's a lot of shit that we
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: do in drug and alcohol treatment that if you sit
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and think about it, you're like, why in the fuck
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: do we do this? Because no other part of healthcare
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: operates the way that we do, right. And the reason
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: why is because we were never considered part of healthcare
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: because our origins weren't in hospitals. Sure are like our
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: industry started from the twelve step programs, church based exactly exactly,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: and it grew from there. And then it wasn't until
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: we were well established and medicine was well established where
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: we figured out, oh, these two are medical thing. Yeah,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: and then then it's like now we're trying to fit
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: this puzzle piece into this puzzle. And sometimes there's a
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: lot of If Nick sounds like he's making hand gestures
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: off mic, it's because he's making hand gestures off mic. Yeah,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: And when I do that because the microphone. Yeah, it's
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: like the microphone is in his hand and for some
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: reason it doesn't go with him. You can, yeah, you
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: can hear it's probably fine.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Is really good microphones. I think they're going to pick
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: up all that.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: So here's the thing writer, I think for me, the
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: thing that I think is most helpful when it comes
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: to substance use. If you do nothing else, I feel
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: like you have to build rapport. And I say substance use,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: but it's probably the same for mental health. Yeah, I
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: mean it's it's kind of it's very important for all
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: of it. But I think with substance use, it feels
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: like you kind of have a limited amount of time.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: So you're working in a residential program. You know, it's
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: supposed to be based off of their progress, how long
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: they're in treatment, but in reality, you probably have a
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: time limit. Okay, excuse me. We're like this person's gonna
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: be here for could be twenty one days, twenty eight days, whatever.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: So you're kind of operating off of that, and so
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: you kind of feel rushed and like, Okay, we go
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: to get stuff done and gotta get stuff done. I
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: would really focus on building rapport, and then once you've
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: built rapport, because I've I've worked with so many people
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: like this where they're so good and it's exactly what
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Jacob said. It's like because they know how to play
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: the system, they've been through treatment, before they know it's
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: not their first time having this conversation. Yeah, they they
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: know like, Okay, well, i'm gonna I'm gonna get along
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: really well with my counselor I'm gonna I'm gonna know
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: what things to talk about. Like I've got a lot
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: of clients that kind of figured this out too, where
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: they come into my office and like, Okay, let's talk
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: about music for a little bit. Oh, how's your golf
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: game going? How is this? You know, because it's like
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: anything to not talk about what's happening with them, and
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you just kind of be quick with it, and then
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: once you've established that rapport, then you can kind of
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: start confronting them a little bit more about that. That's
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: what I was And one thing that I always used
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: to do is I used to just bring it and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: just say right off front, it's like, I feel like
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: you're talking about this, You're bringing this up because you
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: don't want to talk about what's happening.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, just pointing out starting to point out I say
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: the obvious, but what you see.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And then it's very disarming to be on the
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: other end of that and know that like, oh I
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: just got called out and yeah, that's exactly what I
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: was doing.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree. I was just going to mention
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: that's the last thing that came to mind too. If
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: she's not opening up or shuts you down and then
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: tries to manipulate, just pointing out, hey, it seems like
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: you aren't really comfortable talking about this, stay because then
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: they'll least be like, yeah, I'm not then you can say, oh,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: why is it? Or if they say no, I'm not uncomfortable, okay,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: well can I go back and ask you that? Like?
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: It kind of opens the door for either way.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the worst thing that you could do. No,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say that, because as soon as I
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: say that, then Jacob's gonna find out figure of something worse.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I had at least three things in my head already.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Go on, I was, I was all set for. However,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: you into that sentence a not good thing that you
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: could do. By far, the worst thing you could possibly
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: do to a patient is go on, nick, Okay, I'll say.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: The trap to not fall into is don't try to
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: out manipulate them. Yes, so you're not gonna don't try to.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: They're trying to be sneaky and trying to control the conversation.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Don't try to be sneaky back and try to do
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: the same thing, because then it's just going to turn
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: into a pissing match and neither of you are going
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: to get it.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: And they can see that too, Oh for sure, see that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: And you already know that they're good at that. Yeah,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: they're clearly good at that. So don't do that. Do
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: your thing. Do the thing that you're good at, which
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: is being at their therapist and shining light on the situation,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: not falling in and doing the routine that they want
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, and here's the thing I would that's
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: my advice. And then the other piece of this too.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Don't think too hard about this. Don't beat yourself up
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: over this or don't feel like you're you know.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Kind of failings right there.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that you're not doing a good job. This is
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: all normal stuff. I mean, twenty years of doing this work,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I still have that. Yeah, And that doesn't go away.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: You just learned to kind of cope with it, and
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: you just kind of realize that this is just the
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: nature of the game.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: It's the nature of the game. You'll have good days
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: and bad days. You'll start picking up on things easier
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: and quicker, and yeah, that's just part of the Journey's
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: it sucks in the beginning because of that. You're just like,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: what the hell am I doing. I've done all the training,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: I've had a little bit of practice, and then you're
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: kind of thrown out in the ocean. So please don't sink.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: But also remember that's that's everyone.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: That is every No one.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Comes out of training for any job. Nobody comes out
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: of training school anything for or any career, any path
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: and gets into it. And everybody, like everyone else is
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: not getting into their jobs straight out of college going like, oh,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I got this, Like they're all saying the same things
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that you're saying about your job, just about their jobs. Yeah,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: they just don't have as many horror or sweet little
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: ladies to deal with, and they're like construction management career exactly,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: not none, but fewer. Know.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I just saw this recently. I was talking about the
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Paradoxical Way we Live life where it gave a lot
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: of examples, but this reminds me of it. Where they're
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: talking about like when you start working out, you feel
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: weak to get stronger, and like just the idea behind
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: that you have to be scared to be brave, Like
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: you have to go through these struggles in the beginning
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: to feel more confident later on.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: And this is Yeah, you're gonna get to the point
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: where like the next time this comes up, you're gonna
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, I've dealt with this before, and you're
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: gonna have a few more tricks in your bag of
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: tricks there to deal with. And then in ten years,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: fifteen years, twenty years, like this is going to walk
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: in your door and you're not even gonna blink.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I used to do that actually with all with
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of clients in residential treatment too, like because
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: they would they you got to realize that like when
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: people start using drugs and alcohol, their emotional maturity and
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: problem solving skills pretty much stop at that point. Yes,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: so if they started using a fourteen years old y, Yes.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: It's real.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I always used to joke that, you know, yeah,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: we worked that has not talked about much at all, No, Yeah,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I mean it's like I felt a lot of days
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I felt like I was the superintendent of a junior
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: high school. Yes, yeah, because that's kind of what.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I when people, especially if they're an art seasonship. But
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: their twenties. That's what they were doing in middle school.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like and so I you know, I would
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes see like any little thing would set
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: them off, Like you know, we're out of corn flakes,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: and it's like just this right end of the world,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and so, you know, I having a conversation with it
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: is a big fucking deal. Don't get don't just understand.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: And if we run out of citning and toast crunch,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: go fuck yourself.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: To the ground.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but all the insurance company and tell him there's
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: got to be a fire. Honestly, in all seriousness, it
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: was coffee.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Coffee, you know, I'm not even about that.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but anyway, like you know, having that conversation with
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: people about like you know, you know, you kind of
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: told me about your story and your challenges with drugs
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: and alcohol and like how bad it was. Like think
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: of where you were at the worst, you know, like
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: living behind a dumpster, like looking for food using dirty needles.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, you lived through that, you survive that,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: we can handle the corn flakes. Yeah, It's like it's
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: like once you've done that, it's like the rest of
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the world like you've forgotten. Let's remind you, like the
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: rest of the world, like you can handle a lot
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: of shit, you know, so anyway, that's true, but one
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have to handle a lack of corn flakes.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I believe that's what Geneva decided. That's how we know
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: there's no God. That's right, that's right.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: That's a good question in Minnesota.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Good luck, stick with it and yeah, just just build
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: up that practice. And the more you the more you
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: work at it, the easier it's just gonna get like everything.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: we're gonna discuss my sister. We're listening to pod therapy,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Jacob's sister. Today's episode is brought to you by Robert
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Brownie Junior, Men's Kalea Landsberry, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Dan Martin, lib Hey Yo, Andrew Langmead, Chad mag Le Prince.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to sponsor the show, become a therap
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: producer at patreon dot com slash therapy. All right, we
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: got some music trivia. Oh true from Emma. True, we
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: do one point to Jacob. Yes, from Emma, these are
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: mistaken lyrics. Okay, okay, uh, first one, I know Jacob's
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: gonna get so we're gonna of it to Whitney. Good.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Excuse me while I kissed this guy Jimmy Hendrix, what
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: is the correct lyrics? Correct lyric? Wait? I thought you're
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: going to read the end correct lyric? I did? You said?
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Excuse me, well, I kissed this guy? Yeah? Correct, that's
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: the correct lyric from Jimmy hendricks Fabulously Gay Album. Yes, correct,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Jimmy hendricks Fabulously Gay Experience.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I think I missed something here. I'm just gonna say
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'll give you options. Is it supposed to be
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: kiss this guy? Which is what Jacob is h kiss
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the sky, kiss goodbye, or kiss the night.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I feel like the sky would be some shit I
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: would get wrong. So I think that one you are correct.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I have notorious for seeing the wrong lyrics and just
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: not giving.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Him was uh, oh ship, it was an Elton John song.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: When I actually looked up the lyrics and I was like, oh, Ship,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: that's what he is saying. There's there's a few Elton
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: John songs where the lyrics get into the weeds fast. Yes, yes,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I think Benny and the Jets might be one. Uh,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: there are, there are a few of them where he
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: really gets Crocodile Rock was yeah or no. Saturday Saturday Night, Yeah, yep,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Saturday Night. I'm going to kiss this guy. Oh, Saturday night.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: That's just a real lyrics, Okay, Jacob, This one I
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: did not know. Verily cease, not thine steadfast faith for
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: this merry dream be no jest? What creed? But you
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: just oh, if it was Creed, i'd know it. Kar
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Te Uh, Verily cease, not thine steadfast faith for this
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: married dream be no jests?
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's from Prospero's final monologue in the Tempest,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Shakespeare's shortest play. In case it isn't, I'll give you out, okay, Uh,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Living on a Prayer bon Jovi. So this is we're
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: just naming the song. I don't know what the actual
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: lyric is. Oh, okay, is it in Living on a
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Prayer bon Jovi, Don't Stop Believing, Journey Faith, George Michael
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: or hold On, Wilson Phillips, Man Lesson Phillips. I feel
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: like they illiterate. Yeah, very well, you just named four
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: songs that I would have thought if that line had
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: been in the idiot thim, I would know. I thought
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I would know.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel the same. Right now, I'm like, well, ship,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: what say the line again?
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Verily cease not thine steadfast faith for this married dream
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: be no jest. Gotta have faith faith. Okay, so I
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: don't think it's faith.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Uh read the options again, Phillips, living.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: On a prayer, don't stop believing by journey or hold
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: on Wilson Phillips. It's gotta be Wilson Phillips. I'll say Wilson, No,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: it is not. It's don't stop believing. Wow. All right,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: so we're gonna have to listen to that.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: There's more than just the core apparently, all right, Whitney,
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: sweet dreams are made of cheese?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: What is the correct what is the correct lyric?
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: That's what I think it is. But I could be wrong. Okay?
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Do I have to guess? Or do you give me options?
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I can give you options if you want to get
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: two points of I guess, right, Sure, sweet dreams are
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: made of these? Do it is that? All I'm guessing?
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Yep?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Correct? Is this game?
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Also?
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I've just looked up the lyrics for don't stop. Believe
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: it again? Verily in this song at all? Where could
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: have been that was the wrong?
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: The wrong?
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: So is there anything that could have been mistaken? Oh?
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Verily is the first word, right.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, just like Jacob gets the hard one.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Really it's yeah, it may have been in se.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I'm just really good.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Let's see. Okay, Uh, Verily, cease not thine steadfast faith
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: for these merry dream being this merry dream be no jest.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I have no idea. I give you the next question. Okay,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: you're naming the song and the band and lucky be Okay.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: British rock band warns about a large metaphorical cataclysm, then
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: spends most of the song insisting they can't be stopped.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Oh h.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Want options like right, I'm gonna give you out. I
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: don't think is British? Go ahead. Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. Huh.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: We will rock You by Queen uhuh. A large metaphorical cataclysm,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: We will rock you. Another one bites the Dust by Queen,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: or Don't stop Me Now by Queen. No listen to Queen,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: you could do worse. What's the line again? There's no line?
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: The description of the song, Oh right, what's the description.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: A British rock band warns about a large metaphorical cataclysm,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: then spends the spends most of the song insisting they
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: can't be stopped. Don't stop me now, I guess no,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: that's what I thought too. It's we will rock you.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: It will be a big man some day, you got.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I guess it's I guess it's warning disgrace. Somebody better
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: put you back into your please.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well there we go, all right, learn something new
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: every day.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I got that point for the true answer at the beginning. Yeah,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: you're terrible. Jesus, I forgot. I had to forget. Let's see,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: doubting myself as a therapist. We've already done. Worried about
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: my sister, Hello, pop therapy crew. See it wasn't my sister.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: You thought it was my sister, But it was the
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: writer's sister. A few months ago, I got a call
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: from my sister Ellen saying she really needed to talk
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: about something. She told me that a week prior, her
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: husband Henry a gun on himself in front of her
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: and threatened to take his own life. She was able
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: to calm him down and take the gun away from him,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and apparently they've talked it out, but apparently she still
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: had some concerns. Sorry, I was rereading something. I thought
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I'd gotten something wrong, but I think good. Uh. She
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: blames herself and thinks it's because something is wrong with her.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I obviously was very worried and suggested that they both
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: get a therapist to help deal with this. It's been
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: a couple of months since she told me this, and
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: whenever I ask how they're doing, she's brushed it off
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: like it's nothing and says he's been focusing on work,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: which is keeping him distracted, and she thinks it's helping him.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Apparently he saw a therapist, but it sounds like he
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: only saw them once. Since the incident, Ellen has not
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: seen the therapist to my knowledge. I should also mention
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: that a few years ago, at a college party, Henry
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: was accused of pinning a girl up against the wall
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: and choking her. Henry denies it, and Ellen says she
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: was in the bathroom at the time and didn't see anything,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: but two other friends said that they witnessed it. The
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: girl press charges, but because his family has a lot
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: of money, Henry didn't serve any time and was to
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: pay out a settlement to drop the charges. Ellen lost
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: all of her friends from that party because she sided
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: with Henry Cool dang wow because of the choking are
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Between the choking accusation and now this, I'm feeling very
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: concerned about my sister's safety. I can emphasize with people
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: or empathize with people with depression and that have suicidal thoughts,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: but pulling out a gun in front of Ellen feels manipulative,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: aggressive and abusive. I guess my question is I don't
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: know how to handle this. They live across the country
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: from me, so I can't really tell how things are
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: going except from a few phone calls. But I don't
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: trust Henry at this point, I have zero desire to
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: talk to this guy, but I also want to support
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: my sister. I'm worried that if she realizes or even
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: suspects that I don't like Henry, she may shut me out.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: She has also asked that I not tell anyone about
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: the incident. Fortunately, for you, no one listens to this show.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: That's correct.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Well, then I want to respect her. We don't even
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: post these now. No.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: No.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: However, I am very concerned about Henry, and I don't
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: know if I should make someone who lives closer to
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: them aware of the situation, but I also don't want
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: to break her trust. Any advice as far as how
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: I can navigate this situation is very much appreciated. Thanks
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Big Heavy One.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: I feel like I had a friend within the last
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: year they their sister was in a sent like. I
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: was reading this thinking, oh my gosh, this is almost identical.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, some things are different later on, but that
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I read, but I didn't think this was that common
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: for people to be holding gun sad.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: People need to get choked at a party anyway.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks Jim for stating that. Gosh, my first thought reading this,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: like my my instinctual therapy reaction is yikes, get away, yucky.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Is actually to really talk to your sister, I mean,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: approach her in a way that shows concern and care
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: and question. I feel like questioning is super helpful in
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: these situations, like hey, how have you felt? Have you
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: felt in danger? Was that scary for you? Like getting
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: her to kind of come to some of these realizations
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: on her own, because I imagine she is pushing a
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: lot down and trying to make excuses or minimize his behaviors.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: We do that as humans to survive sometimes and we
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: get very blinded by love and feelings we have, or
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: if you're in a situation where you feel stuck, like
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: maybe there's finance, I mean, it seems like he has money.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Maybe she feels like financially secure with him and is
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: overlooking these other really really uh yeah, keep behaviors because
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: of that. I'm not excusing that her choice is there,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: but I just think that's how we are. How people How.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Much should we take the the party incident into kind
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: of consideration with it? How how how how much are
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: we are we thinking about both of these things together?
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: And how much are we thinking of them as two
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: things that are that are separate and maybe not related
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I mean the same person obviously. Yeah, I mean, here's
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: my thought on that is. And I'm saying like, even
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: if we say that the party incident just happened, even
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: if we just take that as as fact as fact,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not debating that part. I'm saying, like, how much
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: do we really want to talk about the two of
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: them as a unit? For me, you don't really even
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: need to. I think the second incident or the most
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: recent incident is serious and not pulling the gun out
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: is all I want to talk about Yeah, and I
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: think I think, you know, the the earlier the party
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: story maybe just adds a little bit of credibility to
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the seriousness of the situation, kind of kind of fleshes
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: out the picture of who the person is for us
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah. Maybe, well that's what I feel.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe not completely fairly, but yeah, I feel.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Like it's worth considering. I mean, we're not going to
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: bring it up if if I'm the writer, I'm not
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: going to bring that up to my sister. But in
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: my mind, that's It's like when when we would work
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: with you know, juvenile sex Fenders were.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Asking would like I was like, oh, yeah.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: We manipulate that. Would I'd hold a gun to that head.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: We always try to have a Woodland section of the
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: show every week.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I feel like that should be.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Anybody interest in this week I'm gonna do. I'm gonna
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: start a zoom show that's just going to be Whitland.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Would Nick.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I feel like I should start with with Whitney and
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: it's going to be ship.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Ship, that sounds. I want both of you
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: to start these shows and then we can bet on
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: who will cut themselves severely. The fastest, because I don't
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: even know which of you I would bet.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: I feel like you should place that bet and sold
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: the listeners.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, I think we could do this and this
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: could just be a fun game for the listeners who's
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: going to catastrophically injure themselves. We can have bets chance,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: will someone lose a finger?
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Can it be sewn back on? That's all I need
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: to know.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Sorry, When you were working with kids.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, working with kids with sexual behavior problems. One of
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: the things we're asking in the assessment is like what
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: is your history? You know, did you like things on fire?
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Did you hurt animals? Did you hurt humans like other humans?
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: So we're asking these questions. So to me, that comes
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: to play as a character kind of what Jacob said
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: as like a character support for.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: What brings a little more focus. Yeah, okay, it's like
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: what I've said multiple times on the show, is the
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: best predictor of future behaviors behavior before I did no, Yes,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: about two seconds ago he said it, but it was
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: with example. He said it through a lot of metaphors.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So I feel like that is an
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: important part.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: So this, you know, as far as like how to
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: deal with this. This kind of reminds me of something
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: that that one good piece of advice that Jacob had
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: many years ago. All right, many years ago. Let's go
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: way back. We were talking. Do you remember, Jacob. We
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: were talking about uh wow, shut down whether or not,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Like I don't remember. It was a very similar situation.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Somebody was writing in and their best friend or something
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: was dating this abusive asshole. Okay, And so she was
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: just like, how hard do I want to confront this
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: behavior and all this? And the point that you brought
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: up is that you should be supportive. Oh yeah, If
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: you drive this person away, it just makes them less
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: likely to come back to you later, because then it's like, well,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: now I have to admit that she was right, right, yeah,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: And I don't want to have to go through that.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: So I'm not going to reach out to her for saying, yeah,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: you're not you're not in the area. You said you're
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: you said you're a you know, a long distance away.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, you're you're not there. What you can do
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: outside of supporting your sister is very limited. And I mean, honestly,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you other than you
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: gotta you gotta work on getting your mind wrapped around that,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: because like you know, if you go to your sister
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: and say, this guy's an asshole, you got to leave him,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: and you get on, if you get on the you
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: gotta leave him train, Yeah, then all that ever does
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: is drive the loved one away. That that never has
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: I've I've never seen in my experience, in my in
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: my own personal, anecdotal, meaningless experience, I have never seen
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: that work. Yeah, because usually it's not once you need
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: to leave this guy, what happened is they leave the person. Yeah,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: the friend, the friendship and so the or the sister,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: the sisterhood you know, is damaged, uh, sometimes critically, and
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: sometimes that's just the end of of that relationship. And
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: then you know what, what always happens later on as
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: you hear like, I mean, that's not fair. I was
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: gonna say, what happens later on as you hear the
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: horror story about what happens to the friend. Of course,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: most of the time what happens later on is exactly nothing, right,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: It's two people living, uh not not entirely happily, yep,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: but not not the end of the world. Sometimes it's tragic, Yeah, yeah,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I think and writer here's how I would deal with
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: this situation, keeping in mind what Jacob is saying, and
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: you would have to be the judge on how far
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: you can actually go with this before you would lose
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: your sister. And you kind of you know your sister
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: better than we do. But here's what I would do.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Not Whitney. Whitney knows your sister very well. It's odd, yes,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: kind of creepy. Yeah, kind of creepy because because she
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: doesn't know Whitney. No, that's what's creepy.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. But he doesn't take two people to
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: be in a friendship, Nick, okay, just one.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: She knows of Whitney, she's seen evidence of which here's
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: what I would do. She seed the peanut shells that
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Whitney leaves outside of her bedroom window. Whitney needed a snack,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I would I would approach the sister and just say, hey, look,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: with this recent situation, I'm really scared. That's it. I'm
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: really worried. Can we create some sort of safety plan? Yes,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: the safety and it all goes through the lens of
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I love you and I am just worried, and let's
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: let's let's just let's do some work. Uh, you know,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not telling you what to do. And if I
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: felt like my sister was going to be resistant to
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: that in any way, what I would do is I
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: would even turn it back on me and just be like,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm being ridiculous, this is just my anxiety.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: So I would feel a lot better if we had
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: some sort of safety which, by the way, has the
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: benefit of also being true. Yes, yeah, like everything everything
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: in that statement is still true. You're not lying to
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: your sister. It's not boy, do I wish you'd leave?
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, I love you, I care about you, and
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: I don't want you to get hurt.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: And even like I live far away, and it would
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: just make me feel better if I knew there was
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: a plan in place next time. Maybe he was going
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: through a lot of emotional things, yeah.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe just you know, if there's something that
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: you can and I don't know what that safety plan
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: looks like. I mean, I'm just kind of.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: I would ask her like, yeah, what do you think
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: we should do? Like is there a friend you have
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: nearby you could call? Or can you leave the home
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: for a moment, like just step out in the front
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: yard to talk, like anything like that can be whatever
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: one thing.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: We did with a friend years ago, she was in
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: an abusive relationship and we did something along you know,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: had these these types of conversations and made it very
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: clear to her that we were not fans of her husband,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: but that we were fans of her, and that whatever
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: choices she made in this that was that's where our
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: support was going to be. But we bought her She
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: lived in a different state than where we lived at
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: the time, and we bought her a one way ticket
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: on Southwest from her house to or from from where
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: she lived to where we lived, and then, uh, we
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: continued to just reschedule that flight forward. So we basically
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: just had an active Southwest ticket that we then just
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: carried forward and eventually I think we just used it
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: for something else. We never, thankfully, we never had to
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: use it for any emergency situation. I think we just
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: used the mile points whatever, you know, we because Southwest.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: We did Southwest because they're easy to reschedule and easy
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: to cancel and all that kind of stuff. But buy
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: a reschedulable, cancelable plane ticket, that's really cool. The fundable
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: you know, do it, and then you just keep on
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: moving it forward. Just stay ahead of it, set yourself
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: a reminder once a month or however often you need
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: to reschedule it and just bump it another four months
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: however however far into the future. It'll let you bump it. Yeah,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: and then when you need it that day, you reschedule
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: it to that day. And there might be there might
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: be a difference in cost or whatever, depending on what
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: you pay for it up front. And that was for
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: you to have it, and then it's and it's ready
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: to go, and it's already in their name, okay, And
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: so all they need to get on the plane is
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: their identification and the and their phone, because the tickets
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: on their phone. And even if they don't have their phone,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: they just need their identification. They can go to the
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: counter and you'll do it that way.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I almost wonder if even the opposite would work too,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Like for yourself to go see, sure, that's a really
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: good case, because she seems very like resistant, like nothing's wrong,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna be cagy. I feel like even if
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: you had a ticket book, she may not man on it.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: But if you're able to actually love that idea to
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: where it's like it's just sitting there waiting and if
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: she did a concerning text or like we've been arguing
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: a lot or whatever, even just going out to be
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: able to fly out for like, well, my thing's booked
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: for two weeks from now, I can see if I
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: can bump it up sooner. Yeah, it's kind of already there.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: You can even change it too, sooner if you need to.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Because once you have the ticket, it's easy to change it.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Even if you have to pay extra.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: You're not as much usually now.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Like they make it so easy now because now you
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: can store a card in the in your account, on
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: the on the airline software and everything. So I mean
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: now you can really just have it all done, have
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: it all authorized and everything. You hit the button, it's
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: all set, Yeah, and then it's just get to the airport.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: That is a great idea in the sense that like,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: if she's in a situation where she just has like
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: a holy shit moment where she just got to get
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: out of there, she doesn't even need to even get
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: onto the plane. As long as she can get through
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: security at the airport, she's good. She's completely safe at
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: that point on. And then if you get to the
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: gate and decide not to go, great you decide not
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: to go. Yeah, and honestly, worst case scenario, you're out
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: whatever you paid for the ticket. Yeah, I mean that's
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: that's kind of the biggest bother and you can you
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: can do it. And we did it in a way
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: that that wasn't even a problem. I mean you have honestly,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: you have to keep up with it. Yeah. Yeah, you
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: just have to remember that it's there and not let
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: it lapse or whatever.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: I think it's important to note as well, domestic violence
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: is such a challenging area to work in, Like I
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: hate to be doubIe Downer in this situation but before
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: but you know, I hate it, but I'll do it.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: I'll do it.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: We know you will. Waitney, I'll keep Gallant's laundry day.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: That was yesterday.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: My laundry is all clean. I found this shirt and
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: got excited. And that's just my lime green trucker.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: If nothing else. You have to be in public between
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: your house. Are you giving me about coordinating outfits?
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: All my good ship's packed? Does that count?
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: And your eight carry ons?
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, my eight carry ons, my two check bags.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: But the downer thing to say here is that it
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: is always up to that person whether or not they
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: are going to get help choose to leave any of that.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: As far as being their support person, I think Whitnick
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: and Jacob have touched on so far has been very accurate.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: You kind of have to fake it a little bit
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: to say, you know, I love you, I support you,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: We're here for you whatever you want, but I am
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: worried and concerned. Yeah for me, Can you try a
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: safety plan? If that doesn't work, she's like me feel better,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: m But if she's resistant to all of that, I
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: think just trying to stay in touch with her and
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: trying to be a listening ear is the best thing
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: you can do. And at the end of the day,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: that's the like the saddest and scariest part about DV
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: is that you have no control and you can see
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: it so clearly. You're like, this is fucked up, this
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: is not okay, and they still choose to stay in it,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: and you're like, why what's going on? You don't deserve that,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: you know all the things that go through your mind,
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: But it is mind.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: It's so hard because you have to you have to
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: put yourself to try to understand it. You have to
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: put yourself in their shoes. You I mean, you have
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: to ignore the information you have because you're not in
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: in the room, you're not in the house, you're not
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: in the relationship, so you have different information than what
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: they have. Like it's it's so hard. The silver lining though, honestly,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: right too, is I mean that the times that I've
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: dealt with this, uh, you know, sometimes it has devolved
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: into a real domestic violent situation. Uh several times, quite
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: a few times. You know, the the the person who
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: is the concern has gotten help and and and you'll
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: and and they come through the other side.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: And I have seen this too. I mean nobody talks
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I have several friends, uhal several married
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: or in relationship friends that I am grateful today that
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't make any ease of their partners when their
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: partners were being assholes when they're when when they were
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: in maybe not situations quite this extreme, right, but but
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: pretty narrowly situations. Uh. I didn't go to those husband's
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: boyfriends whatever they were. Of course, it's always male. It's
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: never the other way around.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Oh no, that's not true.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: I had one that was the other way around. There's
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: one other factors in that one too. Though, uh but yeah,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: it's a it's almost always the boyfriend or husband of course,
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: but uh but yeah, like they.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: Get physical in one on one incident and you're like
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: part of you wants to go punch the ship out
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: of them, but it's like, I gotta just see if
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: they're willing to get help and they're willing to work
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: on it, then I gotta wait and see.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: I can think of one close friend, Uh it is
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: definitely a source still of tension between her husband and
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: you know, her her still current husband, and and me
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: because I made like he he was up. He was
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: very aware of exactly what I thought of him when
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: some some things that were not nearly this bad we're
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: going out in their relationship, but it was, you know,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: it was not pleasant. It was it was some not
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: nice things and for a person that I'm very close
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: with and you know, and but they worked through it
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: and they and they got through it and they are
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: both very happy people now. And when but when we
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: are around each other, we always have that that moment
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: of like that eye contact check in of like I
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: know that I know that you haven't always been my
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: biggest fan.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah I'm watching you.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: Yep, not even I'm watching you just like, Hey, we've
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: we've done this, We've gone around this, merry round. Yeah,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: good to see you.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Bad things are spoken unspoken.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, writer, I think I would want, yeah,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: some sort of a safety plan if it's my sister.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: I want to ask questions. I want to know, like, hey,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: do you do you happen to see any warning signs
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: anything that kind of that you notice about this person
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: leads up to violent behavior or manipulative behavior. Have you
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: noticed anything like that? And maybe if there's something that
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: you can kind of text me, you know, an emoji
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: or something that you and I were it's only something
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: that we know you can kind of tell me what's
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: going on, or that you're worried about something. Of course,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: then on the other hand, is like what do you
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: do with that information? Like you have it, you're across
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: the country, you know.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: I was, That's actually a good point. I was just
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: wondering too, like asking her. I know this is a
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: little bit more of maybe therapy you speak, but asking
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: her how what point would be too far for you?
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Like what kind of gauging?
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, like where when when would you get on a plane?
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what would be happening to make you feel scared
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: enough to like have to maybe get space. You don't
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: even have to say leave them, Like I don't think
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: we bring up that, but just say that you think
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: you would need to like get out of that situation
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: for a temporary time. You know, it doesn't have to
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: be forever. But and see what she says. She might
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: just say, I don't know, but I would be curious
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: what But.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I really can't stress enough. Like when you have
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: that conversation you want to be you want to have
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: that from the point of view of like, hey, when
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: if if Indo or win that ever were to happen,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: I want you to know, like get to the airport
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: and come to my house. Yeah, like come, I will
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: take care of everything you get here. I mean, it's
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: got to be from that perspective.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Or you don't while you work it out.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Again, always, we're not we're not making any big decisions.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: We're just we're just seeing a dangerous situation and getting
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: out of the dangerous situation and then we'll figure it
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: out down That's it. We'll figure it out from there.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: But let's let's get to there.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: Gosh, that is so tough watching loved ones go through that.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, if you're not a Patreon and you wanted
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: to join and join the discord, I know there's probably
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners that maybe have had to
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: deal with that situation or similar situations that maybe can
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: jump in and offer their advice. I bet so. Good
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: luck writer. We're gonna take a quick break, and when
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: we come back, we're gonna discuss being conflicted about my father.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: We're talking about pod therapy. We're getting all Jacob's family.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brownie Junior,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Men's Kayla Lansberry, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Martin Live, Hey, Yo, Andrew Langmead Chad Meg and Inca
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: le Prince. Would you like to sponsor the show? Become
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: a therapy ser ptreon dot com slash They all right, Whitney,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: I'll give you the lyric. You gotta tell me song
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: and artist return me to the realm of Yon sweet Child,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: where mirth doth blossom and roses bloom hauck you with
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: you know what, I think this isn't necessarily mistaken lyrics.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: I think some of these are just lyrics. That they
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: changed jess Ai, it wasn't me. This is from Emma. Okay,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: so I'll give you options.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Back to December by Taylor Swift Take Me Home Country Roads,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: John Denver, Sweet Child, O Mine guns in Roses or
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: baby Mine by Bette Midler Baby.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: Mine, My baby Mine. Oh thank you, that's the sweet child. Okay,
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: read the lyrics again.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: No return me to the realm of yon. Sweet child
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: where mirth doth blossom and roses bloom?
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Is that sweet child of mine?
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah? It is you?
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: Take again.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: You with hat?
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, this is an interesting Okay, this is a misharducker
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: hat Whitney.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Is getting is here to say?
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Oh man, that would be a great T shirt.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: That would be maybe scoop fust I.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Sent you a T shirt designed the other day you did.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: But just yeah, it was just a picture of a
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: croissant with the word croissant.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Jacob's very creative lately, all.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Right, Jacob, Oh, it said pot. There I got to
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: say pot therapy instead of That's right, it's just a
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: picture of said pot therapy.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: This is a good shirt idea.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: This is a good idea. It's a very inside joke idea,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: but it's still a good shirt idea? Uh, mishard lyric,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: So you gotta say what the actual lyric is? Okay,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: dancing queen feel the beat from the Tangerine habit right,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: So what is it supposed to be?
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: It's tambourine from the tambourine It is? Okay, very good.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: My wife was in an Abba show for about a
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: year and a half. I learned a lot of Abba
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: songs that time. All right, why uh to two musicians
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: document a list of word world events like a history lecture. Boom? Okay, Okay,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: I don't remember what the second one is. Yeah, I
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: don't get the second one. I know this. I've heard
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: the second one. Yeah, no, there's two because somebody did it.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: They talk fast in the beginning of that song.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the micro Machines guy. It's his single that
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: he did me all right here, I'm lying to you,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: but the micro Machines guy doing a single. Definitely.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know those words that you're saying.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: But we didn't start the fire, Billy Joel. Yes, American Pie,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: you want to hear the rest of them? Okay, American Pie.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Don McLean. You said it was two songs from an
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Italian restaurant, Billy Joel and the Times They Are Changing
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: Bob Dylan.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, there's two of those.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Are the answer no, because there's only one answer given.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: I know the answer, but it's not. It's not done.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Well, is it? We didn't start the fire?
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: It is? It is, yes, congratulations last year or so?
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Who redid it? Somebody redid that? Somebody redid we didn't
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: start the fire? Uh? And it was it was Fallout Boy, Oh,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: fall up ball Out Boy in twenty twenty three, redid
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: we didn't start the fire?
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: I'm also going to listen to that on my home.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: But it is all of the events that Billy Joel
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: saying about they changed out, all the all those events
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: now more like modern stuff. And yes, it's not, it's not.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: It's terrible.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Loaded up on.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Nine eleven in there if you if you're wondering, did
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: they include eleven in the list of the events? The
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: answer is yeah.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the fire fall hilarious.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, Jacob, here we go, last one. Here's the lyric.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: I'll give you the lyric, the mistaken lyric. You got
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: to give me the song and the artist. Okay, thy
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: melody hath Bewitched mine Heart and entrenched mine very Soul,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Shakespeare meat loaf sounds meat loaf. No, I think this
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: is not the melody.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Soul.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: I'll give you an extra point for that. I don't
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: think this is a mistaken lyric. This is a rewritten lyric. Okay, Okay,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: so can't help falling in love Elvis Presley, your song,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Elton John the Way You Look Tonight, Frank Sinatra, or
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: unchained Melody, The Righteous Brothers. It's got to be unchained melody.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: It is not. I felt like I knew the lyrics
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: of that one. The least Yes Way to Go. Captain
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: Planet Arab Spring, La Riots, Rodney King, Deep Fakes, earthquakes, Iceland, Volcano,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Oklahoma City Bomb, Kurt Cobain, Pokemon, Tiger Woods, my Space,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: Monsanto GMOs. That's the first verse. Oh wow, Harry Potter, Twilight,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson dies, nuclear accident, Fukushima, Japan, Crimean Peninsula, Cambridge, Analytica,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Kim jong Un, Robert Downey, Junior, iron Man. We didn't
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: start the fire. It was always burning since the world's
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: been turning. We did start fire because it's just a
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: pop culture reference.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: He's a guy more war.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: In Afghanistan, Cubs go all the way again, Obama, Spielberg, Explosion,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Lebanon Unibomber, Bobbitt John, I really like Bobbitt. Comma John
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: John Wayne John. Bobbitt is the guy that his wife
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: cut off his penis and threw it out the window
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: of a moving car. Oh shit, uh nineties news. Yeah,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: I remember that Bobby Boston marathon balloon Boy wore on
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: tarra QAnon. That's the rounding out of that verse. So yeah,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: the boy version of this song not great. Sounds like yeah, yeah,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of fond memories, is what.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: I love thinking about.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, So the whole time you were saying fallo up boy,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason, I had in my head twenty one pilots.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: To be fair, I've never seen those three bands in
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: the same room together. I don't have any cause to
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: say that they are not the same band. That's you.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: Somebody should read the next question. That's the one we
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: just read. Let me just scroll on DOWNA conflicted about
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: my faga. Hello fools, please save this for an episode
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: when Whitney is present, if possible, as I really value her.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: Oh shit, I'm just looking at the flock we are
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: out of time. We'll get back to it next week
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: when Whitney is gone. Obligatory context. I am a thirty
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: year old female. Pronouns are she and her? Thank you
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: very much. I have not spoken to my father in
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: almost twenty years. My parents divorced when I was in
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: elementary school after a long history of him cheating on
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: my mom and other transgressions that we do not have
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: time to get into. My dad filed for divorce and
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: drug out the process for years, causing mark distress for
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: my mom during that time. During the brief the two
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: brief years that he had visitation rights, he had a
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: living girlfriend and drank heavily, both explicitly against the court
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: mandated requirements for my visitation. My dad is a long
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: time alcoholic and known to have used other harder drugs
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: as well, and was even fired from a very cushy
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: job for partying on company dime and time, eventually leading
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: to an incident that prompted me and my sibling to
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: stop seeing him him and obtain a straining order. He
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: refused to pay child support until his checks were garnished,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: and for a time even paid us paid for us
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: to have medical insurance per the court orders but never
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: sent the card so that we could not utilize these
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: songs like God, wow, is that that's a dick move?
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Is it a dick move or is it a strung out,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: clueless move. Did he not do it to be an
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: asshole or did not do it because he was strung
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: out or both?
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Doesn't get rid of And the one that you can't
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: even order a new one because it just go to
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: his address like.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: This caused us to go without necessary medical care for
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: most of my childhood. He certainly shows signs of narcissistic traits,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: even admitting that he does not care about others other
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: than how they can benefit him. Eventually, when I was
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: in high school, he abruptly moved to another state to
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: avoid paying for my college expenses jokes on him, as
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: I was still a junior in high school. Turns out
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: he never learned my birthday, despite my mother correcting him
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: his court document numerous times officially corrected court documents even so,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: that sucks. I don't mean to laugh at you, right,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: I'm just laughing at the craziness of the Yeah. All
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: this to say, I know he's not a good person.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: He hasn't attempted to make contact. Has an attempted to
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: contact me in all these years made our lives hell
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: on purpose and caused me to seek years of therapy
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: to undo the damage. It is known in my family
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: that he never cared about me from conception, and I
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: was mostly ignored and dismissed by him. Yet he is
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: half of my genetics and still my father. I go
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: through phases where I think of him often and wish
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: to contact him, and times where I hope he just
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: dies so I can stop having to wrestle with this.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: I do not desire a relationship, nor do I expect
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: any change nor an apology. So do I listen to
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: this visceral yearning to just connect with my dad, even
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: though he's a piece of shit. I don't expect much,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: but think I may. I don't expec much, but think
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: I may just have a natural desire to connect with
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: my dad because well, he's my dad. Frankly, I think
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: I need some advice on how to actually choose yes
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: or no, since I've spent ten plus years battling with
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: this choice of whether or not to even try to
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: contact him. If I choose to, how can I possibly
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: prepare to be rejected? Entirely and or disappointed if we
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: do speak, and if I choose not to, I know
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: he won't live forever, and I am afraid of regretting
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: it if I never try before he dies. I appreciate
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: and welcome any advice slash perspective slash jokes. Many thanks
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: in advance. Whitney's biggest fan. Please keep me anonymous. PS Jacob,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: congrats on your doctorate. Thank you so much. It took
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: me an embarrassingly long time listening to this podcast to
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: learn that you are, in fact, not a real life coach. Pss.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: I am a resident therapist, should be fully licensed next year. Congratulations,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: and have often recommended deep dives or segments of apisodes
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: for clients. Keep doing what you're doing. That's the Anana mouse.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Oh thank you.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: It's sweet. Thank you for writing in.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: And as far as me not being a real life
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: coach says.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: Well, you can do it.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: You don't need to be a coach. I dare you,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: I dare you name a realer life coach than me.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Your dad is so
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: fucking shitty. Like good grief.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: Some people just shouldn't have children. Some people are just
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: not cut out to have children, and it sucks when
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: they It doesn't always suck, but it can really suck
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: when they do.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah for real. So reading this, I feel like it
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: is natural to have that yearning. I think it comes
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: from us having that innate desire to like connect a parent.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Who should the shoulds? I hate the shoulds, but it's real,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: who should have done this or should have done that?
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: They should have taken care of me. They should have
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: my best interest at heart. That's what a parent should, yes, exactly,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: even the bare minimum, Like, that's what I think we
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: expect as children, even adult children, And so when they
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: don't do that, it like leaves a gap there that
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: you just don't know what to do with. Sometimes it
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: can not everyone has that yearning, but I think a
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: lot of people do still, even when they are abandoned
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: by a parent. And so when it comes to do
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: I reach out? I know, because here's what I hear.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: You're like, well, I have low expectations, but I kind
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: of think they're not as low as you think. I
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: think maybe deep down you still are thinking maybe it's
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: been years and he's changed, or.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Like, you don't do this if you actually don't have
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: any expectations, right, yeah, because what would be the point? Right?
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Like that was kind of my question that you
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: should ask yourself what is my purpose in reaching out
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: and what do I really expect? And so I think
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: you have to sit with that first. I would either
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: whether it's journaling, whether you have a really good friend
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: that you trust to talk to, or a sibling, maybe
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: a therapist, yes they would be great for that, but
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: something to kind of get it out. I just had
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: a client this past week who was like betrayed by
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: a roommate that moved out, and they were really upset
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: by it. And some time had passed, the person just
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: like kind of ghosted them and they were friends before
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: their roommates, And so she texts me and says, all right,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: the person reached out, they want to come get their stuff,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: And part of me wants to just make them interact
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: with me and sit down and talk through this. And
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: I was like, I responded, I said, what do you
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: think is actually gonna happen from that? They have been
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: so avoidant, I said, I don't really think you're gonna
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: get closure. I don't normally tell clients like what something
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: that direct?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't normally say it like I wouldn't do that.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I normally wouldn't, but I have a decent rapport
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: with this client. And I was like, girl, you want
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: but not what I would do. I know. Basically, I
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: was like, I don't think you're going to get what
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: you think you're going to get from that.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: And she was like, truck Whitney is so wise.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: Hat Whitney.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: Just as a folksy wisdom about her. It spends a
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: lot of time doing a session in a rock and chair.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Come on down, honey, sit down.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: The pipe was a bit much.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: Long, cigarette cigarette holder.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: No, I agree, though. It reminds me of this uh
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: good feedback that I heard a therapist say once, which
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: is the best predictor of future behavior's past behavior?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: When did you hear that?
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: Years ago? Interesting and years ago? But yeah, I think
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: there is kind of that idea of and I think
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: what I kind of understand what the writers talking about
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: in the sense like like when the writers saying I
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: don't have expectations, I think what they're kind of saying
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: without realizing is I don't have any expectations of really
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: great things happening, right, but they but the writer probably
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: has expectations of neutral things happening. You've pictured like a
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: conversation yes, being had. Yeah, And in reality it is
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: past behavior consistent with this neutral version of Yeah, we're
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: not gonna we're not gonna bond, we're not going to
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: have great conversation, but we're gonna have but we're gonna chat. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: Is that going to happen or is it more likely
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: that you're going to scut a lunch and he doesn't
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: show up, or or that he shows up and he's drunk,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: or he you know, says you know, I never loved
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: your mother or whatever. You know. I wouldn't say take
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: all of those reasons and not do it. Take all
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: of those reasons and manage those expectations accurately. I think
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: you need to have a realistic picture of what this
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: is going to look like before you make a decision,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, doing not I don't know, not
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: making a decision based off of the best possible thing
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: this could be. But what's the most realistic thing? And
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, if the decision is I want, for my
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: own peace of mind, I want to try to have
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: this conversation before he dies. Yeah.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: Sounds like the writer kind of needs.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: And that's a perfectly reasonable need I think on your
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: part to have. And if you take a swing at
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: it and you miss, at least you know you took
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: that swing. Yeah. Or I don't even need him to reply,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: or I don't need him to say anything. I just
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: need him to know these things. Yeah, yes, Okay, it
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: might find It might be you know a letter, Yeah,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: and you know a letter asking you know where you where?
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: You tell him some things that you feel like you
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: need to tell him. I don't know if this guy
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: is much of a reader. Maybe not. I don't know. Uh, yeah,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: I mean I would, I would think about it strongly first. Yeah,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: really establish those those expectations and then consider how you're
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: going to reach out do all those things. But it
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: sounds I think Whitney's right. I think it sounds like you.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: It sounds like you almost need this to to at least,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Isn't it sounds like you need to try.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: Do you think you know if the writer let's just say,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: and we don't know this for sure, but let's just
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: say that the writer has maybe some expectation or hope
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: that's something positive could happen. Would it be worth having
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: a conversation with dad to experience the opposite, you know,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: as in like this could go bad, but at least
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: that way. Then now I know that like, okay, well
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: I tried it. I was wrong. I was hopeful that
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: this is going to be you know, pleasant or at
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: least uh neutral, right, and it wasn't. Is it worth
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: the experience? And maybe the writer has to kind of
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: ask that I don't know, and I'll tell you what
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: it just kind of rattled loose in my own brain
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: as I was talking a second ago to I would
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: write a couple of even if you're gonna have this
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: meeting in person and not email or letter or whatever
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: it is, I would write a couple of practice letters,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: like sit down and just just to try to get
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: your own thoughts in order, because there's a lot going
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: on in your head, and so like what you're not
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: what you don't want to do is to have this
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: this meeting if you don't want to, you don't want
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: to have this sit down and then leave it and
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: have you in the car going like shit. I should
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: have said, like, like I have practiced that a little bit,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: maybe even write down some bullet points that you're like,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: these are the things that I really have to talk
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: about or hell, I mean write him a letter, or
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: you write a letter and read him a letter, do
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: any of these things. But do do all of this
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: stuff before reaching out. I would I would say, yeah,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: I would almost like maybe this is just Nick's crazy brain.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: This is a great episode.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: But like, if I did that and I wrote this
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: letter to my estranged father, I kind of want to
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: write a letter back from his perspective interesting and then
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: but like, but I would write two of them back,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: like I'm going to write back a letter which would
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: be my best hopes of a conversation, okay, And this
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: would be like I've been thinking about you a lot.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: I feel terrible about what I've done. I always wish
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: I could have had a good relationship with you, absolute
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: best it could go, yeah, yeah, and then write a
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: second one with the absolute worst it could be, right,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: you know, and just be like, which is going to
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: be a short hint that I don't want to have
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: any contact with you, and and just very upfront, just
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: you know, as make it heartbreak, yeah, and then to
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: just kind of put him away for a couple of
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: days and then pull them back out later and read
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: them and just kind of get a sense of like, Okay,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: now I now I at least know where the goalposts are,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: and I know what's in thee what's on the other end,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: and then maybe I can make some kind of decision
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: or at least that way if if I, you know,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: do choose to find him and meet with him, It's like, well,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: I've already I've already prepared myself emotionally for the best
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: and the worst possible outcomes. So I feel like I'm
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: better capable of dealing probably going to be in the middle.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, do we agree that.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: I Mean it sounds like I think we all agree that,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: like if the writer feels like this is something that
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: that she needs to do, then go ahead and do
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: it type thing, but I think for it first. Yeah.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: I mean I would again, like kind of going back
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: to the very first letter, I'd almost kind of do
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: the same thing with like a safety plan, you know,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: just kind of have a plan of like, Okay, if
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do this, what are the things that
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do immediately after this? You know, who
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: do I have for support? That's I'm just going to
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: choose to like schedule something with my best friend. Hey,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: let's just go hang out and they don't even need
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: to know why they're there. But I just want to
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: have somebody around me in case shit goes south. Then
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: I've got like some way that I can kind of
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: process this with another human. Hopefully you have a friend
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: that you can just call and say, like, Hey, I'm
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: going to have a bad day on Thursday. Maybe you
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: can just be at the house, yeah, while I'm having
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: a bad day.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't the letter thing. I kind of
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: like that. It's an interesting concept. I think it could
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: be very helpful to kind of get used to the
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: negative feedback that might come. I guess I do agree
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: with Jacob that if you're happy, if you're having the
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: inkling of like I feel like I won't have closure
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: if I don't try. That is so important. I think
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: I just mentioned this in the last couple of weeks,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: like having that experience with a family member where I
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: was like really bummed about the progression of our relationship
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: and just kind of being like, all right, I'm gonna
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: give it one more shot. This is it, and after that,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: I'm only going off of what I want or don't
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: want to learn this relationship. But I got to give
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: them that chance for me, I feel like it and
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: it went surprisingly well for me, But that doesn't mean
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: that it will always go I was fully ready for
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: it to lead nowhere and just leave from talking with
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: them and be like, Okay, well now I know I
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: tried my best. That's all I know. It was my family. Yeah,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: So I feel like that helps you have your own
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: sense of closure, like I tried my best and he
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: didn't try hardly anything. No, I won't say enough he doesn't.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: But then you know, but that's all we're in control
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: of is our own action. So I really like the
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: idea of.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: Like I did what I having that feeling of I
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: did what I could do, and then at the very
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: least for the rest of your life or your own
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: mental health, you get to say I tried, you know,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: but make it you do. Have to make sure it's
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: a real try. Yeah, because you because you it's only
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: for you, so you know if it's a shitty try, Okay,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna play Devil's advocate. I'm gonna go completely a
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: different direction r which is killing.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: Have it killed?
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: Maybe not that far. I always have to remember who's
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: in the room with me when I have these conversations
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: the worst. Okay, here's what I'm gonna say. If you
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: choose not to have a conversation with this and let's
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: just play this out and he passes away and he
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: dies and you never have this conversation, you still didn't
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: do anything wrong. No, so remember that as well. I
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: don't want you to agree with Yeah. I don't want
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: you to feel like, oh fuck, the pressure's on me.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: I have to do this. No, you you can. That
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: is an option you and if you parent, Yeah, if
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: you want to do that and you want to experience that,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: and if that means something to you that you know,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: like what Whitney said was like, well at least I
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: did this, Okay, then cool, then do that. But you
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: don't feel like you have to do that. You don't
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: have an obligation to do that. Exactly. Your parent had
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: an obligation to parent you. Yeah, when you were a
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: child and failed at that obligation. Yeah, your only doesn't
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: mean that you now have an obligation because your parent
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: failed at that obligation. Your only obligation is to live
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: the best life you can live. Yes, that's it, And.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know it's funny. Remember this when you
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: mentioned the writing the kind letter like the best case scenario.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: Part of me was like, if dad does die, I
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: actually don't hate the idea of writing the nice letter
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: to like just to be like.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just to get through the rest of your life.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just to be like, Okay, maybe he would have
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: done all these really nice things and maybe this is
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: that like la la land CBT stuff where we just
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: like gaslight ourselves. But I don't care if that helps
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: me live at peace the rest of my life because
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what, my dad and I wished
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: he would have done better, and I'm going to move on.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: It's a silly thing to say. It's it's almost contrived,
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: but life is so fucking complicated and life is so
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: fucking hard, and I'm not making excuses for your dad.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: But I mean, he just wasn't.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: At the same time, there's stuff going on in his
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: life that for whatever reason, and it might just be
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: because he's an asshole, but for whatever reason, he didn't
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: get that job done. Yep, and uh that and that
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: just sucks. It's not fair to you, and it's not
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: fair to the people that that you interact with if
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: you're having kids, and not fair to your kids. It's
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: not it's just not fair, and it's it's it's so
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: it's so very shitty, and him not getting the job
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: done is not a reflection on you. No, and it
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: doesn't and it doesn't mean that you now have to
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: do something as a result of that. Yep, you have
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: zero obligation to do anything in this Now. It sounds
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: like not your circle. I said, it sounds like you
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: want to take a shot, though, and hopefully have some
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: kind of adult relationship with your father. And I don't
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: mean that in the joking case that I would normally
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: mean having an adult relationship with your father. And I
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: just wanted to shoot that down before Whitney made that
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: joke because I could see her.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: Winding up to make it my truck.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: He was definitely going to talk a lot about the
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: adult relationship that you and your father are going to have.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, down here, down here in the South. Okay, wait, sorry,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: The last thing I was going to say is we've
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: talked about this recently in the discord I saw where
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: uh whatever, Yeah, the adult relationship.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: Discord.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: But it's the oh my gosh, I totally lost my
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: train of thought thinking about Okay discord. Yes, where we
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: talked about like grieving certain relationships, and I want to
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: throw that out there for like the aftermath if you
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: choose to go meet with your dad if things do
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: not go well, even worse than you expected when you
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: expected the worst, because he doesn't he sounds like a
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: piece of work. So I'm just like, I don't know,
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: but let's say you choose to follow through with it.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: I think the next step is working on sort of
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: just grieving the loss of having a parent that should
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: have been a better parent to you and just saying
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: that sucks for me, and grieving someone who's still alive
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: is really difficult.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: And grieving that lost you know, the lost childhood opportunities, Yes,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: because I mean there were things that were missed. Yeah,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: there were things.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: Because your dad was not able to do the job
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: that and.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: You can't get those back. And so I've been talking
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: like having a therapist to even just talk about that
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I'd like you to do that, that'd
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: be It seems like a nice thing to be able
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: to work with and work on and and hopefully get
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: some kind of closure and get passed a little bit
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: to some degree. Uh yeah, I'm sorry, writer, It sucks.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: It's a bad situation and I'm sorry that you're having
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: to deal with it. Yep, thank you for running in
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: and give us an update if you choose to do that. Yes,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: I'm really interested in a follow up, so let us know. Yep.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: Speaking of follow ups, Yeah, we have a follow up email.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to read to you really quickly directed.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: It's a follow up directed to Jacob. Hello. Yeah, hey,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: respectable pod therapy people and Jim. I want to send
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: a quick clarification to the trivia from episode three ninety seven,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: Jacob claimed that flaps are were a control surface for airplanes. Ah, okay, okay,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: so you kind of not fully declared shenanigans, but it
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: was continued under protest. Yeah, there was a call up,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: but there was a protest call okay. So as an
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: aerospace in engineers, thank you. This is who I need
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: to hear from. Yes, that gets paid to fix airplanes. Yes,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: I know this ship and the flaps are not used
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: as used to control the airplane. They are used during
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: the definition okay, I think the definition of control. So
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: there's more. They are used during takeoff and landing to
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: change the lift profile of the wings so that they
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: can generate more lift at lower speeds, thus reducing the
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: distance required to take off and land. And I would
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: say that I would call that a mode of control.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: I know what flaps do, Okay, and that's what I
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: that's what I thought that would be considered a mode
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: of controls, So keep talking, high Land. Scoop continues. The
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: other things that are definitely for controlling the pitch, which
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: are the elevators, roll ailerons, and yaw rudder of the aircraft.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: The flaps are too close to the fuselage and do
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: not operate fast enough to be effective control surfaces. Fair enough, Sorry, Jacob,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: You're wrong this time. No, I think we just have
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: a I think we have a I think I think
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: what I am wrong, And I think what I am
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: wrong about is my understanding of the definition of the
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: word control in that question, Because yeah, the flaps don't
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: control the flight of the airplane, but they do control
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: an aspect of the airplane lift. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: accept that. That's fine. Thanks for all the great content,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: Keep up the awesome work, lay In Scoop. Thank you,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Layd Scoop. Yes, uh from an actual aerospace engineer, so
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: that's awesome. Same, Yeah, this one's been pretty much right.
• 1:26:49
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• 1:26:52
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