Latest / Divine Skintervention / Ranking Skincare Ingredients #2

Transcript

Ranking Skincare Ingredients #2 · Divine Skintervention

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hi Angelo.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: Hello, gorgeous.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: That's me.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, we've built illustrious careers around skincare, cosmetics.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: I suppose we have, yeah.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: We both do very specific roles in the skincare worlds, and ingredients are a very important factor in those roles.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: My question to you is what was your first memory of like very specific skincare ingredients?
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Like being put on the map or being like, oh yeah, that ingredient.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: I know her.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: I think because I had severe acne, the first one I remember myself using or going for was salicylic acid, like turning a product around and seeing that OTC monograph.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: 2%.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: It may have been like the Neutrogena, uh, the the oil-free acne wash or whatever it's called, the orange one.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: A legend, an icon.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, uh for me it was that I do remember even back in the day, my mom using stuff with vitamin C.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Like vitamin C was all the rage.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh like in the 90s, even like so.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Some of these uh ingredients and ingredient stories, like the ones that have stood the test of time, your retinol, vitamin C, glycolic acid, like all of these, it's like, yeah, they've stuck around for so long because they work.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, like for me, it was all those acne-focused ingredients.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: Benzol peroxide was another one.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, these really also are still part of acne treatment regimens all over the world now.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, I prescribe benzoyl peroxide all the time.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, salicylic acid is in continuum, the product that I developed with Experiment for breakout prone skin.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm wearing it today.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, available at Sephora.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh, when you say you prescribe benzoyl peroxide, are you actually writing prescriptions for specific topicals?
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Or are you just saying go get this at the drugstore?
2:15
SPEAKER_01: So until recently, and I think I st I still am, but like when I prescribe a combination topical, like I use Epiduo a lot.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: They're going over the counter now.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: A lot of the time, uh, I'll also tell people to get like wash-off formulas, so those are over the counter.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Do you I mean, obviously it's patient-by-patient basis.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a preference for rinse off versus leave on?
2:41
SPEAKER_01: It depends on what the the entire regimen is and what their goals are.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh, the reason that I go towards a combo sometimes is uh if somebody's like totally treatment naive, or if they do have issues like as far as overcomplicating their routine, I want to make sure they're able to adhere to the regimen really well, I'll go for those combos.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh for other people, you know, for instance, if somebody's interested in improving their skin tone as well, or anti-aging, and I want to start them on something like tretinoin, I'll have them do the wash-off uh benzo peroxide and use them at different times of the day.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: It really depends on the patient.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, so going back to my memory, going back to your point about acne, horrible acne as a teenager.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was always put on uh clindamycin.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: So that was my first like, okay, that is for acne.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: I think I looked into the mechanism of action of what it did for acne.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: So that was my awareness of like, okay, that is something that I'm using.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, totally unaware of like the whole world of uh OTC actives for acne at that point.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: So I didn't have the awareness of bentoperoxide or any of those.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: Sasulic acid, I wasn't aware of, but I knew that Neutrogena face wash did use her.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think more iconically, more commercially global, Evilongoria, L'Oreal, hyaluronic acid, and specifically the commercial of her being hyaluronic acid, it's really put that ingredient on the map.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: And I think all these little skincare brands owe so much of their success and their money to Evilongoria.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Chase, did she chase it, change the face of the skincare industry, as far as we know.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: I barely remember that.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: What I do remember is working in CVS as a beauty advisor and Vichy coming out with their line called a qualithermal, and it was all based around hyaluronic acid.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: That was the big ingredient story, and that line is still around, they're just like not promoting it as much.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: But when they launched, everybody was like, wow, in the company was being like, this is like really the thing we need to sell.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: They had like a hyaluronic acid serum.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: This was like 2008, 2009, like it was a huge it holds a thousand times its own weight and water.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: A L'Oreal brand, by the way.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's so interesting.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah, L'Oreal, obviously.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: But to me, L'Oreal, the skincare brand, has so much, at least again, L'Oreal Paris.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: L'Oreal Paris.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: They had so much presence, especially on TV, because I've seen the commercials on TV.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: Miss Evil Angoria, Miss Gabriela Solis, if you will.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: L'Oreal had a lot more commercial presence.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Whereas Vichy, honestly, I did not hear about Vichy until I started getting into skincare a lot more in depth.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Because they don't have the same level of presence, in my opinion, in the US.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're like more of a they they acquired them.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think I don't know if they acquired them in a package with La Roche Pose, but we're talking like 20 years ago at this point.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, or if it was that they acquired them both at the same time and they were in the same division at that time.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: So it was like L'Oreal Dermatologic Beauty, like the L'Oreal is a many-headed beast and they have different divisions that they put their brands under.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it's like a it's a smaller contributor, I think, to their overall business versus L'Oreal Paris is really that mass market, big marketing.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, even you know, I feel like they really put retinol on the map too, with Revitalift.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Between them and Olay, though, Olay Regenerist.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: So it's like they would have these franchises of product, which Revitalift is still around, but it's not solely based around retinol.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: But the big ingredient story in Revitalift was retinol.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: So again, putting retinol on a lot of people's minds, associating it with anti-aging, and also the way that they used to have it split up was that those different lines were targeted at certain age groups.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: So Revitalift was your like 30s to 40s, and then age perfect was your 50s to 60s.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was Diane Keaton, that's like the gold packaging.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: So they would have their different uh spokespeople for the different lines in those age groups, so Anthony McDowell for Revitalift, and then I don't think they had anybody in their 20s at that point because they weren't really pushing anti-aging, and I don't think they had a product because they were so focused on the whole anti-aging thing.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think for me it's also the fact that like growing up in Florida, spending a lot of time in Puerto Rico, the commercials always were on like the Spanish language channels as well.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, yeah.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: So Univision, Calemundo, because they were like they're Latina.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Eva Longoria was a Latina bilingual icon, and so was I.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: I think she's still a spokesperson for them.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: She's still works.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: I still have memories of her, and like I like it must have been really recent of like the hair commercials.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes, she did one for the root spray, like last year.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Or something, yeah, and like she still does the hair, like she's still part of that.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that contract gotta be crazy.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Good for you, girl.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: By now, yeah.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: But also to your point of there was no one in their the 20s segment at that point.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, isn't it Ken or wasn't it Kendall Jenner Feminine?
8:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: For L'Oreal Paris, I'm not sure.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: It's funny, some of these spokespeople, they become like um Carrie Washington for Neutrogena and like Jen Garner.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: It's like they serve as consultants too at a certain point.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: It's like they they're really entrenched.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, the people who last a long time.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: L'Oreal spokespeople.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Kenzel Jenner, Kara Delavinha, Elia Bott, don't know who that is.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: But no, it's interesting seeing like the generations of the cosmetic campaigns, how they frame the products and the lines, the spokespeople.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Or back in the day, getting a long cob contract was like the contract.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Who do they have right now?
9:21
SPEAKER_01: They have like, I think Jessica Shastain.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: This am I thinking of uh Julia Roberts?
9:28
SPEAKER_00: There was a South Asian actress who also was like the face of it.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember they they also had Lupita Niango for a while.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: That was a big deal.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Was that them or was that Estee?
9:40
SPEAKER_01: Maybe a STE Lauder.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe a STE Lauder.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think of like the golden age of like the Estee and the Lancome ads.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: And did you see uh Doja Cat's gorgeous music video?
9:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: Loved.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love a reference.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: I love a cultural callback.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: That was a gorgeous music video.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: I feel like a lot of it was giving L'Oreal Paris makeup, though.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you think?
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know the fonts and stuff.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: What you thought it was Estee Lauder?
10:05
SPEAKER_00: They gave me like classic 80s Estee.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: I think maybe it was a mix of all of like, yeah, a pestiche of amalgamation.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: So people loved us talking about ingredients and where we thought they ranked and our personal differing opinions.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: The most downloads of any episode of Divine Skin Intervention yet have been that specific episode for some reason.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't really feel like we reinvented the wheel.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: People just love rankings, and especially coming from germ perspective, formulation perspective.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do we think is hot?
10:37
SPEAKER_00: What do we think hits?
10:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, and so we did S-A B F tier, I think.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: D tier, yes.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: S-A-B-D-F.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, now we come back and we Do it again.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna try to rank more.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna return.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: See what ingredients we haven't talked about yet.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: Last time we talked about sunscreen, vitamin C, niacinamide, O T C resol, acylaiic acid, LED math glycolic acid, dimethicone, NADPGRN, titanium dioxide.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Lots to choose from here.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: You wanna throw one out?
11:18
SPEAKER_00: I gotta think, girl.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: I could start.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: Peptides.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Baleg de special um A tier.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: And two main reasons.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: A peptides is technically an umbrella term for a category of ingredients that basically not all of the peptides are anti-aging or like wrinkle or skin firming targeting.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Um there's peptides that specifically can target pigmentation.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: There's peptides that to some degree help with like exfoliation.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: So A, peptides for what?
11:57
SPEAKER_00: B delivery.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: That is the big factor as to what peptides are going to be beneficial.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: Delivery systems are really important.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Like drone technology is one example of making sure that the peptides are able to get to where they need to to signal the responses required to get the benefits.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: And some products really invest in those formulation innovations and technologies.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: A good example, uh freeze frame by educated mess, Alex Padgett, friend of ours, a friend of the show.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: She specifically chose three different delivery systems for the peptides in the freeze frame.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: I think, yeah, delivery is what can kneecap them quite often, because for instance, everybody likes to bring up arguraline.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: For those of you who don't know, that's a peptide that was modeled to be similar to botulinum toxin.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: So people are saying, oh, is this Botox in a bottle?
12:47
SPEAKER_01: For Botox to actually work, we inject it into muscles.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: Like it needs to be in facial muscles to cut off the crosstalk between nerve and muscle.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: Applying a peptide topically, it's how are you gonna get it all the way down there?
13:05
SPEAKER_01: A cosmetic can't claim that, but also it's likely not gonna be possible in any appreciable way.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: I question the actual ability for the peptides to get anything more than beyond just epidermal.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: And to Angela's point, you have epidermis, dermis, subcutaneous tissue, muscles like down here.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: So there's a huge uh distance that the peptides are not getting to.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for that reason, I would I think it's it's gonna be different depending on which peptide to, because some of them have a lot of data behind them, some have none.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: So you have like all the different oligoptides, pentapeptides, tripeptides.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: Matrixal 3000 is a combination of two different peptides, and like Matrixal 3000 has decent data.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: I deeraline, I think people really reached with those claims.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the data about it has to do with like hydration and I think skin elasticity, which I mean, any product I feel like could could do pretty well if it's formulated well.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't necessarily have to do with that key ingredient.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: So for me, that's why I'm gonna put them at B.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: Like you have some stuff that's really evidence-based and some that is not.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: So correct.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: And again, formulation matters.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: But if you get a good peptide and a good formula, Medicaid, advanced liquid peptides, MP.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: MP.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: Mini peptides.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Copper peptides specifically.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Topically, topical copper pep copper peptides.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: Thoughts and opinions?
14:38
SPEAKER_00: A.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: A.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: I like the color.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: I like when they're blue.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, there's some data there.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, so out of the peptides, I would say, like, those are gonna be on my higher end, like things like that, matrixal.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: I think again, context formulation really matters.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: I I think A tier for me.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Get a good formula.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: I've been really liking the neod case and kale serum, specifically kale, the copper amino isolate lipid.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: I like the texture of that.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I find the next morning after I use it.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, because it's like slugging to that.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Basically, it's a very occlusive, like oil gel bomb texture, which is very cute.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: Petrolotum.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I was actually gonna ask you that.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: That was really gay.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why I said like that.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, girl.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, what what do you think I would say?
15:30
SPEAKER_00: STA.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: S.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: For those of you who don't know, what makes Petrilotum so special is that it's an occlusive, but it occludes like almost all transepidermal water loss from happening.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: So some studies have said that it occludes like 99% of water.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: I think it's that high.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: But um, the thing about it is that there's some sort of signaling that goes on theoretically from the actual water loss that's happening.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: That 1%, that means that your skin is still gonna like produce natural moisturizing factors and still try to recover hydration.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: So like that's why it's so good at being an occlusive.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: I think when it's pure petrolotum, the shoes.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: Another thing is how thick is that layer two?
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: So obviously one study, but I think it's really it's really important in cosmetics overall, and especially for wound healing, too.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think uh its role in occlusion and how it supports different facets of skin function, very important.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: What I really appreciate is the versatility of the raw material in um maintaining occlusion, but you have the ability to like use it in a much lower percentage, still kind of get that high occlusion, and it's not a thick, nasty layer.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Really good example is buffer jelly by experiment.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, it has petrolatum, right?
17:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't know off the top of my head.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Petrolatum, yes.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Tasty.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, buffer jelly by experiment, really good example.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Low percentage of petrolatum with a couple other things that help support occlusion without being really heavy.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great ingredient.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Love her.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Also, very cheap ingredient and like cheap in a great way.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: You can use petrolatum straight up, a little tub of Vaseline, get it at the dollar store.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Super multifaceted, very functional.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: What do you make of people who go on and on about purity and also the environmental impact of petrolatum?
17:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, so petrolatum is a petroleum-derived ingredient.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of ingredients are, and my thing is, we're getting that petrol, we're getting the petroleum anyways.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: If you drive a car, if you take an airplane, if you take up like we're using petroleum in a lot of different facets, we're sourcing that ingredient, or we're sourcing that uh, what's that word?
18:04
SPEAKER_00: That uh that good petroleum.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, the material.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: So it's a byproduct that it's easy for us to make.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: And then for petrolotomy, it has to be highly, highly, highly, highly refined.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's the thing is people always like, oh, cosmetics are insane, they're toxic.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you clearly don't know how it works on our end of things because there's levels of safety and levels of purity that we have to assure before we can sell something as a consumer good.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: It's true.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: I always say, as long as you know there's gasoline being used, jet fuel, etc., there will be plenty of uh petrolotom out there for us to use, and it's not the thing that's driving the mining of fossil fuel.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, come on, get real.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: Also, for me, I'm like, the petroleum you're using is probably a lot more refined and clean and pure than the water coming out of your shower.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Nasty.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: Vitamin C derivatives.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: I was having a conversation yesterday about uh tetrahesodesylascorbate specifically, but you have three oethyloscorbic acid, you have ascorbal glucoside.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: I think in the last episode of this that we did, I put vitamin C and S tier or something.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: So I'd put them in like A or B, depending on the level of data.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: I think THD has like some of the best data, right?
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the benefit of derivatives is stability.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Um THD, which is tetrahexal tetra, tetrahexaldestyl ascorbate, is a oil-soluble vitamin C derivative.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: So it allows us to use it in different applications, and again, it's more stable.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, certain derivatives have better data for different benefits.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: So some are more antioxidant potent, some are better for reducing the appearance of dark spots and pigmentation.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't know for all the derivatives, which is the best for like collagen synthesis, for example.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Probably, yeah, there's probably not great data about that.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: But like I would say like A or B tier, my main thing is even with ascorbic acid, I'm not looking at that for purely that in a product.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: I like to see it in combination with other ingredients.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: I prefer more comprehensive formulas.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that way it's like if I want an antioxidant-focused product, I have a vitamin C with a bunch of other things.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Remedy has a really good uh example of that.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: They use threeoethyl ascorbic acid.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like that serum.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: I actually just emptied that today.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Empties.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: I barely ever empty anything, but okay, okay.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: I have a good one for you.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: Hyaluronic acid.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: She's cute.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: She's fine, B.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean A, A.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: She's effective.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: A.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: It works.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: It works.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: I think also the way that you're able to engineer it at the different molecular weights to give your entire outer layer that plumping, I think is great.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the product that really turned me onto that concept is the NEOD MMHC multimolecular weight hyaluronic complex.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: So they have, they said five weights and 15 kinds of hyaluronic acid in there.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: So when you put that stuff on, you look very plump.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: That's cute.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: I haven't used that yet.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm still exploring a lot of NEOD's options.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: My favorite example, very affordable, very cost effective, isn't tree, that big ass bottle, the hyaluronic acid toner.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Multimolecular weight, and plus the bottle is literally like it's like it's like 500 mil.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: And so it's basically a just splash it all over kind of moment.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: You're very comfortable with that.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: It's not new to me.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: That one like TikTok uh sticker where the girl's like that's you.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: That's me.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Um she's cute.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: I'd say a it works.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: I think hyaluronic acid gets the hype that a glycerin deserves.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: A polyglutamic acid deserves.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: I love polyglutamic acid.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: Poly G.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: Poly G uh DJ poly G.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: DJ poly G.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: Fermented ingredients.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Like specifically like a fermented like rice water.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: B.
22:33
unknown: B.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: It depends on what you're fermenting and why.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: So for those of you who don't know, you'll see a lot of fermented ingredients in Korean beauty, Japanese beauty.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Japanese beauty.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: In La Mer.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Miracle broth.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: Miracle broth.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, the idea behind doing that fermentation on plant extracts quite often is that you're releasing some polysaccharides and some acids.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: So it's gentle exfoliation and hydration.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: Can that be helpful?
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, is it the same thing as using like a straight-up known percentage of glycolic acid or glycerin or no, not exactly.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: But it's something that gives you multiple benefits.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: And it's a natural ingredient story.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: So why not?
23:32
SPEAKER_00: I think to your point, different things being fermented is going to give you different bioactive materials and thus different benefits topically.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Patera by SK2 is a good example.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: And like SK2 has released a lot of the data or a lot of the studies they've done on the Patera specifically.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: That being said, it's like brand and manufacturer generated data, so there is some degree of bias to some, like, obviously.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: But I personally, if you're not spending a lot of money on it, use it.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: I love a Korean fermented first essence specifically.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: And the idea for those is a first essence.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: Versus your second, third, fourth, fifth essence.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, if you if you want to get into the nitty-gritty of it all.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Um in the remember the era, picture it.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: Skin talk, 2020.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I was there.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: So was I.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm still having flashbacks.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: But back then the whole thing was 10-step routine, right?
24:29
SPEAKER_00: Even before 2020.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: This was like the first intro, like the first wave of Korean skincare back in like the 2010s.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: The seven skins.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: You would first cleanse, second cleanse, toner essence in that order.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: And the idea was toner prepped, but then you could also include before toner a first essence.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: And most of these were going to be fermented.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And the idea and the marketing behind it was the fermentation process essentially allowed for increased penetration or more, more enhanced benefits of everything else in your skincare routine.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: We don't do a 10-step routine anymore, but what I appreciate about a first essence is again, I love it and I love a fermented story, and first essences tend to be super, super thin and watery.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: So I have oily skin, it's just lightweight hydration.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: You know what I like when they do a multi-ferment, and so that's obviously we were talking about depending on what you're fermenting, that's gonna change the outcome, but also what species of yeast they're using.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: So some brands are now experimenting with putting in uh ferment filtrates that have been fermented by different kinds of yeasts, so that you're getting different benefits and different like breakdown products.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty cool.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think to that point, there's also some discussion about the impact on like the microbiome in this ferments, which I don't know.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: They're filtering them, so you're not that they're you're not getting you're not getting microorganisms in this stuff, you're getting whatever they broke down.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: That's why it's a filtrate.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: They're filtering it.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: Break it down, break it down, benzoyl peroxide.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: So here's the deal.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Here's the deal.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Hard to formulate with, no?
26:09
SPEAKER_00: I've never had to.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, some of these, there's a handful of ingredients like urea, benzo peroxide, they're just really hard to formulate with.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, and plus they're OTC, and that's part of the reason why I haven't personally touched it before.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: I will objectively concede the fact that yes, it is beneficial for acne due to its like oxidizing abilities.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: I personally do not react well to benzo peroxide.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't love it for acne.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Every time I use, and this is wash off as well, my face burns.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it just doesn't give me the kind of benefit that other acne-focused OTCs do.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: So let's clarify, you don't like it for you.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, correct.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: For me, for me personally, I don't like it.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: I I will recommend it because obviously, very proven, a lot of different capabilities of usage and mediums to use it in.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: But like with every skincare ingredient, it's not always for everyone.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: For me, it's an S tier.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm like having patients use it all the time.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: I use it.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: I will put it in the S tier as well.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: The ben the Pinoxo creamy acne wash, she's cute.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: Cera V makes a really good one too.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: Talk about Apoduo constantly.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: There we go.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I I don't think it could be beat.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: However, you need a good formula and a good regimen of using it.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: Can't just be like blasting your face.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing, is for face, it just and I'm someone who I will melt my face off with exfoliants and retinoids in the same routine every day of the week.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Benzoproxy just does not face-wise work for me.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: I will use it on body.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm saying.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: The creamy acne wash from Pinoxal, it's a really nice texture, and it's really easy to just apply on targeted areas for breakouts or odor.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would much rather people use that like on their underarms rather than like people now are saying they're using chlorohexidine, like hippocleanse.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: No, not unless a doctor tells you.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: Bentyl peroxide's a little bit different.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: I know some people like to use it for like foot odor.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Whatever works for you.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: You can use antiperspirant on your feet.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: Actually, that too.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Wait.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad you brought that up.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: Like aluminum-based uh deodorants, the ones that you could get over the counter, like that clinical strength, you can use that on your feet.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: You can use that around here.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: So hold on.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Actually, pause on the theme for the episode.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: What is your opinion?
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Because actually, I don't have any info on this as a formulator.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, what's your opinion on like aluminum saw antiperspirants on like non-underarm areas?
28:35
SPEAKER_00: So specifically, we're talking about like in the groin area, the crotch.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay, it can be irritating.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Why can I?
28:42
SPEAKER_01: I would not.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: Which is why I would not put it on every single area, just like I wouldn't take you everywhere.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: Um you ate with that one.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: You ate with that one.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, you're not gonna put it on your genitals, but could you put it like on your inner thigh?
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: Um the prescription name for aluminum chloride when it was prescription only was dry salt.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: So we would give that to people to use on their palms and soles too, if they had sweaty palms, sweaty soles.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: So it's like it could be not just for the underarm.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: People have used it on their face.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: Gladly, we now have more, you know, elegant formulas in different ways that we can work on focal hyperhydrosis.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: So that's excessive sweating that's limited to just one area.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh, I think yeah, it's very useful.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: And people can use those OTC formulas to your point.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: I would say, like on the feet.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: If you feel like you're getting excessive sweating on the chest, you could try it on your face, it could be irritating.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, those are all proper indications for aluminum chloride.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: The more you know.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: That's what there's all different types of aluminum salts as well.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, so some might perform differently than others for you.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Some come in like spray formulas now, too, which I think could be really helpful, especially if you're doing it on your feet.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: Like uh, of course, we always want to do these at night before we go to sleep.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh, for most people, they're gonna sweat less overnight than when they're awake.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: And allowing time for that aluminum salt to actually like cause like a plug that's gonna keep you from sweating is very important.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, for the feet, you want to keep one of those sprays by your bedside before you sleep.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: The feet are handled.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Cowlin, like cowlin clay.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: B Cowlin Klein.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, B.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about this before.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm only asking because obviously we see Cowlin Clay in like mask applications, and actually now it's making its way into other forms of cosmetics.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh Edom just launched an SPF stick that uses Cowlin to mattify, which first time I'm seeing it in that application.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: But we talked about it before on the show where it gives you a very temporary fix, it's very hyperabsorbent, so it like sucks up that like oil in your pores.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: So you can use it before an event, you're gonna look snatched.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: It absorbs oil.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, I also think that it's going to reach saturation at a certain point, so it only absorbs oil.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: And like in the market, and I'm like, yeah, I guess.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't think the market's gonna be saturated with it necessarily just because it has limited uses.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: I've seen it used in cleansers too to like absorb excess oil.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: But like we've said about these masks before, yeah, they claim to yeah, shrink the appearance of porous and all that.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's temporary.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: So it's gonna absorb oil from the pores, you wash it off, um, and then after a handful of hours, you're gonna produce more oil.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: So the effect will be gone.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: But I've always said, you know, uh little clay mask on my nose before an event, if I have time, great.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: If I want to make my pores look snatched, fab, but it's it's not a long-lasting fix.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: I have really oily skin, so I like to use it, but yeah, I recognize it's if it's in a larger routine around mattifying and keeping me less shiny, but it's very temporary.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Hypochlorous acid.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask you about that.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Ah.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't use it like that.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: And I know it's really popular in a lot of the anecdotal evidence, it's not even like the right word for that.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: People's people's wives' tails around it say it does all these things.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: I know people love to use it after a workout.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: That makes no freaking sense to me.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: No.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: It's like, why after a workout?
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Or they're like, I sprayed on my body to prevent breakouts, and I'm like, Yeah, it's not an acne treatment.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: No.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: And like the idea is people think it like oxidizes the like bacteria or something.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've Okay.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: As somebody who's done research in this field, and not like, I'm not talking about I looked it up on Google, I'm published about this.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: She's published, mamas.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: So the mechanism that we've understood for the use of hypochlorous acid, which is basically what you get when you put bleach in water, in atopic dermatitis, so eczema specifically.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: For a long time, they thought that it worked well for eczema because it cut down on a specific bacterial burden of staphylococcus, like a certain type of bacteria on the skin.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: So uh it was prescribed for people with eczema to take bleach baths, to literally take commercially available bleach, like a quarter cup of it and dilute it in an entire bathtub and to bathe in it.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: It's like actually less chlorine than a swimming pool when you do that.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: What has bore out in the literature, though, and part of what I'm published in, is that we know that hypochlorous acid has specific molecular targets that it deactivates that are inflammatory mediators.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what the study that I worked on, what we showed, was that these inflammatory uh mediators and markers were upregulated in lesional atopic dermatitis skin, meaning all of these targets that hypochlorous acid is going after are potentiating inflammation in people with eczema.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's an anti-inflammatory, right?
34:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it should be good for all inflammatory conditions.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: No, no, not necessarily.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: I think what people don't understand about inflammation is you got me on my soapbox now.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: When people talk about inflammation, they have a very level one understanding of it.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: So they think about it like single linear scale, like it's a thermometer.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, temperature goes up, temperature goes down.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: More heat, more inflammation, you know, you're at 100 degrees.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, so inflamed.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: Inflammation is not like a thermometer, it's more like a web.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: And there are different parts of the immune system and different kinds of inflammation.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: And we need some of it.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: In fact, uh if you think about inflammatory conditions like eczema, that's a TH2 type of inflammatory signal.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: Whereas psoriasis, which people may think of very similar, no, it's actually like the opposite part of the immune system that's causing the inflammation.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: It's TH1.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: And those different sides of the immune system actually like downregulate each other.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: So just saying that something is broadly anti-inflammatory is reductive and like doesn't necessarily make sense in all conditions.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: The more you know, the more you know.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, there are levels to this shit that people don't even know about, and this is part of the reason why, you know, when I see stuff online and people are like, well, this isn't anti-inflammatory food, this is an anti-inflammatory, this an anti-inflammatory diet.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm like, okay, there is not just one kind of inflammation.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, even toning down one kind of inflammation can raise another kind of inflammation, and we actually need some inflammation.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: We need our immune system.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: People also don't understand that inflammation is caused by our immune system, and you need an immune system.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: So all that to say.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: D.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: D.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: That's the thing, is like most of those things, most of the things I hear about it that I'm actually like, okay, that is a very like tangible benefit or like very easily unlike visible is just reducing some redness.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, so for for eczema, I would say like that's like a level B for me.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: Like it's yeah, but people indiscriminately just using it without knowing that there may be downsides.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: It's like, why are you wiping out your entire microbiome if you don't know that this thing is doing anything, especially using it multiple times a day?
37:28
SPEAKER_01: Why after workouts specifically, too?
37:30
SPEAKER_01: Like people are like, oh, I'm gonna break out because I s I was sweating.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: For me, it's it's a very finicky ingredient, and part of it is it uh it's an oxidizer, so it doesn't play well with a lot of other actives basically, or ingredients in general.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: So when I see it in like a more comprehensive formula with other actives, I'm like, well, so it's not doing anything in that.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: It's just there for a story.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: So the story ain't good.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, D.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: It's if you like it, great, but I just I got a lot of hype and I don't understand why.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: PHAs.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: A.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: A.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: Polyhydroxy acids.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: So these are acids that have multiple hydroxyl groups.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: A hydroxyl group is an oxygen and a hydrogen.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: OH.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and it is able to donate its hydrogen, and that's what makes it an acid.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: It lowers pH.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: General chemistry for you.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: So the difference between these and say your AHA, like your glycolic acid or your BHA, your salicylic acid, is they tend to be larger, but they're still creating that acidic environment.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of the time they work in a similar fashion to AHAs, but they're not penetrating as deeply as something like glycolic acid.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: So they're gonna be less irritating.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: Some of them can also act as antioxidants and they could be hydrating to the skin too.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: So I find that I really like these in formulas because you're getting the exfoliation with hydration, not as irritating.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: That's why we have one in uh continuum.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
39:17
SPEAKER_01: Gluconolacto.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for me, they're A-tier, maybe S tier.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: I think they're really beneficial.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: Again, the there's uh evidence to show comparable effect to an AHA, but just a lot less sensitizing and thus less irritation.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: A lot of AHAs are hydrating, but they're very hydrating.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: So I see them a lot in um serums that just really pumped you up.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: They really plump you up, but they also help smooth texture.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: And the fact that you can use those on a much more regular basis, I think you're a lot more likely to see the benefits that you want a lot more quickly.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: I personally I love them.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Me too.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's Angela's point.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: It's not just one ingredient.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: The way like lactic acid is an AHA, glycolic acid is an AHA.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: With PHAs, you have gluconolactone, you have lactobionic acid.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: I think those are the most common ones you're gonna see.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Very nice.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: One more, one more, one more.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Oof.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: There's only so many ingredients.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's only so many ingredients.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how we're gonna do a third one.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: We'll have to have y'all submit some.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say salicylic acid, because then it'll be like, oh, we hit all the acids, but salicid.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: I love her.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: S tier.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, S.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, and we talked about it before.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: I have really acne prone skin.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: So any form of salicylic acid, I kind of need to use every day, or I like to use every day.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: Right now I'm using continuum from experiment.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh 1%?
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 1% encapsulated.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: Salicylic acid.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, something like that.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: Having that encapsulation allows for more effective penetration, more gentler hit from the ingredient, and easier formulation as well.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for those of you who don't know, salicylic acid is a beta hydroxy acid.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: Beta meaning where the hydroxyl group is on the actual structure.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, it is lipophilic.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: It is oil soluble, meaning that it could actually enter the pore and it can exfoliate there versus non-lipophilic acid, which are not gonna go into the pore.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: So for unclogging the pore, like you would want to do an acne, that's very advantageous.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: This is why I say people talking about oh, mandelic acid for acne, da da da da, it's not gonna get in the pore.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna get in the pore.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: You want to get in that pore.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: Get inside, penetrate, penetrate.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of different applications of it, which I also think is beneficial.
41:43
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there is also evidence for like short contact rinse-off application as well.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: People are, I don't know why it always comes back cyclically, people being like, act as in your cleansers, they don't work.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: There's no point I'm like, we have a lot of data to say otherwise.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Benzoperoxide, uh BHAs.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: And I've talked about you also have technology called coasservation where you can rinse off the cleanser and the active is actually deposited on the skin as well.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: So, like, actives and your cleansers, they are good.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh one thing that I would like to say is don't get scared by one random ass person on the internet saying, like, oh, this thing doesn't work.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: Baby, we have years of clinical trial data on thousands of people.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: So decades.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: They're just wrong.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: They're wrong.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: Same thing with like people saying, like, oh, there's there's uh a pork loggers and tretnoin.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: Look at the real world data.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: It's the it's for the engagement.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like uh uh crack open a book or something.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh like put down the crack and crack open a book.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: Put down that crack, crack open the book.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: Show your crack.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: Show your crack before we throw the book at you.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: I think that's all we have for this one.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: Wait, one more oh shit.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, urea.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: I think S tier.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: A.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: A for me.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: D tier in terms of formulating with it.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: Horrible.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: It's a bitch to formulate with.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: But S tier for benefits, I think it's a really multifaceted ingredient.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: It's um it's keratolytic, which means it helps with exfoliation.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: It is a really hydrating ingredient as well.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: Some of the benefits are very like concentration dependent.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: But you'll see it, for example, in like creams and ointments for like really dry cracked heels at like what's the percentage 10-15 on that?
43:40
SPEAKER_01: 30 to 40.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: 40% urea for some messed up feet.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: It does the trick.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: But then also you'll see it in much lower concentrations, and it's a really effective humectant, for example.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: Ucerin is really big on urea.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: They have, I forget what the the line is called, but it's got like purple on it, and yeah, they make it's like a 10 or 15% urea like lotion in a pump, and then they have like a targeted thing that looks like it has like a little nozzle on the end.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: It's a tube with like a little pointy nozzle, so that you could like put it on like targeted areas, like if you want to do like your elbows or something, but all over the feet, all over the feet.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: Also, some people y'all got foot fungus, you think you just have dry feet, get them checked out.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh, isn't that beneficial for that, right?
44:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know, it can help get rid of the scale, but it's not antifungal.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: So y'all got maceration between your toes, get it looked out.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Get it looked at, excuse me.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: Because that's that's a key sign between the fourth and fifth toe.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: What's maceration?
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh, when the skin's starting to break down, it's all moist and breaking down.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: So usually it looks like white, wet, it might be cracked.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: That's like a dead giveaway for for tine opetus.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: For that.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you say A tier or B tier?
45:17
unknown: A.
45:18
unknown: Okay.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: And with that, thank you guys for watching.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, do you disagree with our rankings?
45:26
SPEAKER_01: If so, please argue with us.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: Please argue with us.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: Because I don't know, maybe we're bored right now.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: We kind of are.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: It's getting hard to figure out these ingredients.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: So, also in the comment section for the next round of this, give us ingredients you wanna hear us rank.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: Get creative with it.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: Throw us for a loop.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be like propolis.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: God.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: God help us.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: Don't say propolis.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, but thank you guys for watching.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: Make sure you leave us a five-star review everywhere good podcasts are streamed.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, hype us up on YouTube.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: Subscribe wherever you are.
46:04
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46:08
SPEAKER_00: Notifications on.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because we miss you.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: We love you.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: Bye.