Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1197: Why You Always Need to Be Prepared in the Backcountry Revisited with Thomas Reiss

Transcript

Ep. 1197: Why You Always Need to Be Prepared in the Backcountry Revisited with Thomas Reiss · Adventure Sports Podcast

0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: your listening to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for adventuring with us, as we discover what incredible athletes and outdoor enthusiasts are doing all over the world.
0:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello everyone and welcome to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:21
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Caleb.
0:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone's in a while on the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:25
[SPEAKER_01]: We interview someone who has a story to tell about an adventure which didn't go well.
0:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are a few reasons why we do that one because usually that story makes for a good entertainment and hindsight.
0:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of type two fun in those situations.
0:44
[SPEAKER_01]: but also there's an element of maybe someone else's experiences can help other people to avoid similar situations.
0:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what this episode is in line with.
0:57
[SPEAKER_01]: In today's episode Mason interviews Thomas Reese of Thomas is an altar runner.
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode they talk about his years of racing and what that's been like for him.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: and how he transitioned in 2022 doing FKTs, because there weren't any races going on in 2020, and they discussed how Thomas found himself in a dangerous situation while attempting in the FKT, and what he did right, what he did wrong, and why it's important to be prepared for the worst
1:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you enjoy this episode.
1:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's Mason.
1:48
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, folks.
1:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Adventure Sports Podcast.
1:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Today we're talking to a friend of mine now and an athletic brewing athlete.
1:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And someone who's doing some pretty cool stuff.
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Thomas Reese, welcome to the show.
2:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, Dad.
2:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm thankful that you have me here and get to share my story.
2:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
2:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, Thomas, I know that you can kind of be doing adventures all over the place, but where are you coming from today and where's home?
2:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been living in, well, my home is kind of split.
2:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm originally from Germany, and I moved here at the age 29.
2:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm now 53, and reside now in California, beautiful sandals of bispo, right?
2:32
[SPEAKER_03]: in between Los Angeles and San Francisco.
2:35
[SPEAKER_02]: What made you go from Germany to there?
2:38
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very simple.
2:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I met the love of my life, which became my wife, and she was from San Luis Obispo.
2:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the options were either we both move to Germany or live in Germany or we both live here and we picked San Luis Obispo.
2:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and this was like almost 25 years ago.
2:58
[SPEAKER_02]: not a bad place to be.
3:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Jeremy's fantastic too, so I'm sure that was a tough choice, but at least one of you gets to be, you know, home and have that kind of family support, you know, so when did you get in running?
3:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you always, it was early early on back when you were a kid or was it later in life?
3:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I had a couple of experiences with running kind of in, you know, what would be compared to middle school here that I enjoyed and it was kind of fun, but then
3:27
[SPEAKER_03]: didn't really turn into a youth run hour or anything.
3:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And then at age 20, a friend of mine convinced me to run a marathon, which I always had my own marathon running in the Olympics and so forth.
3:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I trained for three months.
3:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I ran a marathon and ran very well to brag a little bit.
3:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I broke three hours, which is pretty good for your first marathon.
3:54
[SPEAKER_03]: with like three months of social training and sure enough the local running club recruited me essentially right at the finish line and that was the start of my running career and I've been a runner ever since then and you know started out with after that marathon they turned me into a track runner and like between 800 and 5000 meters on the track mostly then 10k roads half marathon
4:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I actually only ran one other marathon and then I took a little break for a few years at my early 30s and then started ultra running at about age 36.
4:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh man, so you took a break from running all together in your early 30s?
4:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was actually interesting enough, we are right at that anniversary.
4:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So my dad passed away at the young age of 58 due to cancer.
4:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I had to go for his funeral and was kind of like, you know, obviously last minute trip.
4:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I had planned to stay there with my wife for three days and that day after his funeral was actually 9-11.
5:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So we got stuck in Germany for like almost four weeks because remember there was like no flight or anything and so during that time I know there was obviously I don't want to say I was depressed but there was probably some sort of depression happening because you know I was sad about my dad passing away and then seeing all the 911 stuff
5:26
[SPEAKER_03]: on the TV and my wife was freaked out because she's in a foreign country and she didn't understand she was like, constantly, what is going on?
5:33
[SPEAKER_03]: What is going on?
5:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it was a rough time.
5:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just threw that.
5:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of lost my fire and my motivation for running.
5:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I just, I got into this like stubborn phase where I was like, oh, I'll just do it anyway, just for my dad and try even harder.
5:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, those things usually don't work.
5:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And so my running just got worse every day.
6:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I after a couple of months of struggling, I said, you know what, I'll just need a break.
6:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I took a break for a few years.
6:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I would always go for a run, but I wasn't really training.
6:13
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I would like to say, hey, when I go for a run on Saturday, I'm like, sure, I go for like a half hour run or something.
6:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I wanted to get back into running and do something where I didn't care about the time or anything, where I only cared about finishing.
6:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I signed up for this Tahoe Triple Murathon.
6:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like three days, three Murathons around Lake Tahoe.
6:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And my goal was essentially to just finish it and say, wow, I rent three Murathons in three days at altitude on a hilly course
6:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Before this, I've only ran two marathons in my whole running career.
6:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And my wife thought, I'm crazy.
6:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought, what the heck, why not?
6:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what happened, I took the lead at Mal one of that race, ended up winning the race, breaking the course record.
7:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, needless to say, was hooked again on competing,
7:18
[SPEAKER_03]: it was like ultra raises and that's how I got my start and ultra running.
7:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So of course record winning the event got you back in, you're like, you know what I can do this.
7:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, it's sometimes picking something different, sort of related but different, you know, I think can help to get that fire again, you know?
7:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
7:48
[SPEAKER_02]: How are you feeling?
7:49
[SPEAKER_02]: What was going through your mind?
7:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what did you want to do then?
7:52
[SPEAKER_02]: What was like, what were you thinking, I guess?
7:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, then I started really looking into the whole sports of ultra running because when I did that, taught triple marathon, which technically is actually not even a ultra marathon because ultra marathon is considered anything longer than a marathon.
8:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And in this race, I did not run anything longer than a marathon, right, because it was three marathons in three days.
8:20
[SPEAKER_03]: So I looked into ultramarathons and decided to run a 50k and again had a great race, won the race, and then then I got really curious and started looking into stuff and how to like.
8:37
[SPEAKER_03]: make it onto like the national team in the 100k on the road.
8:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I started experimenting with that for a little while, started experimenting with some trail races.
8:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And eventually made the German national team twice at the first two trail world championships.
8:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, and have been like in that sport ever since,
9:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Since I turned 50, I discovered my passion for short or running again, and I'm working a lot of my speed, and I'm actually thinking about maybe running a couple of like maybe world championships or something for age groupers in my age group, because I can still break five minutes in the mile, which if you're getting over 50, is pretty quick, you know?
9:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a little bit of that struggle going on right now because I love, as you know, I love FKTs, I love long, hundred K, fifty mile, hundred mile trail raises, but I also still like running fast in like a mile on the track.
9:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm constantly going back and forth, trying to pick what I want to do.
9:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of a little bit of a struggle sometimes, like almost like a
10:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are two very different ways of doing things.
10:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, quick runs on the track versus multi-day FKTs.
10:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, they're the opposite ends of the spectrum.
10:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I mean, I'd love to hear, you know, you're right there in San Luis Obispo.
10:17
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so many things you do have access to.
10:20
[SPEAKER_02]: When did you start doing FKTs or what was maybe your first?
10:24
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what, I actually haven't done that many FKTs.
10:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I was always,
10:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, kind of scared of it or something.
10:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I always wanted to have that safety net of a organized race.
10:39
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so I was, I mean, I've always been following the FKT scene because the first, my first sponsored contract and team I was on was actually
10:55
[SPEAKER_03]: some of you guys and you may know he's one of the original founders of FKT of that whole movement and the website and everything.
11:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And so he was the first guy that picked me up on a team for on a sponsored team when I got into ultra running.
11:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I've been exposed to it for many many years but I never did one.
11:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know why really I think I was a little bit too scared and
11:25
[SPEAKER_03]: doing COVID obviously there was a big boom with FKTs because there was no races, right?
11:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I started doing some research on FKTs in California that I'm familiar with and I found a couple that really intrigued me because they are in my favorite area in California which is the Eastern
11:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And they both started on the onion valley trailhead, which one of my first, I've done a lot of backpacking with my kids.
12:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And my son, when he was 11, my younger son, Luke, our first three-day overnight backpacking trip with somebody named Whitney started from there.
12:13
[SPEAKER_03]: It started from onion valley, and with somebody named Whitney, and went out to Whitney portal.
12:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I found an FKT, there was exactly that route.
12:22
[SPEAKER_03]: a little bit attached to it emotionally.
12:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And the good thing was the time was relatively soft.
12:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Because, you know, if you go into the Eastern Sierra or the FKT, there's just some Lyra-pandelaid, Francois-Den, there's just so many great runners.
12:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm still relatively quick for my age, but I can't compete with those guys.
12:49
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and so, but the two FKTs that I found, the times were relatively soft.
12:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know what, that might be kind of a cool thing to tackle those FKTs, and that was last year.
13:01
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's how I got into that.
13:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're right, there was a huge, huge increase in just the popularity of KTs because people had been training all this time and training for whatever event they were doing and then all this competitive build up and experience and training was, you know, put on hold because the pandemic and people needed an outlet or something to do.
13:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So, FKTs were a great way, fastest known times, you could compete against everybody, just don't do it at the same exact time and run with them, just do it the next day, day before or after the week after, you could always compare in some way, so it was cool to see that.
13:41
[SPEAKER_02]: That is so interesting to hear too that you were almost intimidated by them before.
13:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Was it just because of, was it lack of experience in the wilderness?
13:50
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't sound like it because you did a lot of backpacking with your kids.
13:55
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I think it was more like kind of and I had conversations with my coach about it and it was more like kind of, I mean, FKTs, like whatever, let's say even two, three years ago, wasn't really that big of a thing like last year, right?
14:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you just mentioned.
14:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was
14:24
[SPEAKER_03]: on something that's really kind of to a lot of people not that meaningful, you know like if you go and you have a great race in you and you run and you win a race, let's say you win rest on states, that's a really big deal, right?
14:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So why would you waste that sort of an effort on an FKT that is maybe not as famous or something, you know?
14:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I was always like,
14:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I could do an FKT, but instead, I rather do a race, but then last year there was no races.
14:58
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and I think that happened to a lot of people.
15:00
[SPEAKER_03]: So it wasn't, yeah, I was a little nervous about, well, you're going to be out there by yourself, because in a race, there's times where you're by yourself, but there's always times where someone's running around you.
15:12
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, at some point, maybe between our three and four, you're on your own, but then our five and six, you're running with someone again.
15:21
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, and so obviously with an FKT, you are alone, you know, so I don't think I was scared that something would happen.
15:29
[SPEAKER_03]: It was more a little bit like, that's going to be weird being that alone for that long, you know.
15:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Then when I did it, I truly enjoyed it.
15:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, tell us about what it's like.
15:40
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's not just backpacking where you're out there and joining it, you know, a decent pace or decent effort.
15:46
[SPEAKER_02]: You're trying to beat the clock in the wilderness.
15:51
[SPEAKER_02]: What FKT did you do?
15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: How long did it take in?
15:55
[SPEAKER_02]: What was the goal?
15:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
15:57
[SPEAKER_03]: So the first one I did was from Onion Valley to Rhodes and King's Canyon.
16:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's about a little over 21 miles.
16:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I forgot the elevation gain, but it's all between it's a net downhill, but it still has like good elevation gain in the and the FKT was like I think previously was about four and a half hours and I estimated I can probably do it in maybe between four and four 15 and so I kind of set certain time goals, you know, and then
16:34
[SPEAKER_03]: just did it and it was point to point, friend of mine dropped me off at the start and then my family picked me up at the finish.
16:43
[SPEAKER_03]: It was really cool because there was no one to affect your running.
16:51
[SPEAKER_03]: There was no outside, you know, like in a race you start and now you
17:02
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're like, that guy shouldn't be faster than me.
17:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I should go with that guy.
17:05
[SPEAKER_03]: So you try to hang with him.
17:07
[SPEAKER_03]: But so you're often running other people's races at times instead of your own, because you're not disciplined enough or you're like afraid or crap.
17:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I mean, like 20th place, and I thought I can get top 10, and all those competitive aspects.
17:23
[SPEAKER_03]: One, an FKT,
17:25
[SPEAKER_03]: you don't really know once passing you because you're by yourself and you are not seeing someone right in front of you that you want to catch up to.
17:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think you stay way more within your own means and then so I just had like time goals, I hit those and was like, great, I don't need to chase anything and ended up running for hours and nine minutes and breaking that FKT.
17:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought,
17:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really enjoyed it.
17:59
[SPEAKER_02]: such a different experience than being there at a race with hundreds or thousands of people.
18:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That's so neat.
18:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that the FKT hype that was started in 2020 is gonna stick around?
18:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think people are saying, you know, that are used to races like you or are like, oh my gosh, there's this whole new way to compete that fulfills me in different ways besides racing?
18:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think it'll stick around for a lot of these elite athletes?
18:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I think so to a certain degree now, you know, instead of three or four FKTs in a year, they may do one because now they're raising again, you know, and bottom line, especially for professional athletes, you know, who have to do certain things, it has to be either a super high profile FKT, you know, like I mean, the two FKTs I did.
18:53
[SPEAKER_03]: That kind of meaningless.
18:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not like I did the John Murr Trail, a Pacific Crest Trail, or the bad bone trail, or something, or Mount Grenier, you know?
19:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and those ones, they've gotten just so fast by now.
19:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Through last year, that even for some of those elite guys, it would be hard to crack them.
19:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, and the thing is,
19:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Especially for like a professional athlete, which, you know, I'm not, but I have plenty of friends who do this for living, even if you have a not so good day, and you get second, you're still getting a lot of publicity, just think about you getting second at UT and B or Western states or something like that, you still get a lot of publicity for that, which is good for your sponsors, which is good for your income.
19:48
[SPEAKER_03]: If you get there is no second place in an FKT, you know, you either get the FKT and you have to fastest known time or you don't.
19:58
[SPEAKER_03]: No one talks about oh yeah I have to like
20:01
[SPEAKER_03]: the second known time, right?
20:04
[SPEAKER_03]: There's only a fastest known time.
20:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, there's literally no publicity at all.
20:09
[SPEAKER_02]: You're lucky to get some, you think at the FKT?
20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, that's a really good point that it is.
20:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it does become part of pro contracts at some point like, hey, you have to get a high in FKT, but I don't imagine it's going to really take over
20:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and the thing is, you know, like I mean, like I said, if they make it part of the contract and they say like, yeah, you know what, we would like you to get a knowledgeable FKT, you know, like, like I know there's some stipulations.
20:46
[SPEAKER_03]: They say you get performance bonus for top three at like, these kinds of races, and you get a performance bonus for like, one of those 10 FKT's.
21:00
[SPEAKER_03]: because I've seen those kind of contracts from friends, and but those FKTs, they're like, John Murtrill, and it's like, once more then, who just won a hard rock, and UTMP has that FKT.
21:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's gonna take that FKT down?
21:17
[SPEAKER_03]: You know?
21:17
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're probably better off if you're a pro athlete to go and run a Western states and get maybe four and still get a performance bonus.
21:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a really good reflection, honestly.
21:28
[SPEAKER_02]: That's really cool.
21:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, tell me this, your first FKT, that went really well as great experience, tells about the most recent experience, the next FKT that you were trying the most, the most recent one that didn't go to plan, tell us what the plan was, and then let's get into what happened.
21:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I think that was kind of one of the main things, I think we wanted to cover today, right?
21:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So last year, I found those two FKTs,
21:55
[SPEAKER_03]: post starting in onion valley, going up here such paths.
21:58
[SPEAKER_03]: So the one I did last year goes over and then pretty much goes straight going west over to Sierra.
22:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the other one that I found is 44 miles and it essentially hits the John Miratrial when you come down here such paths and then you're doing the bounds of the John Miratrial to mount Whitney Portal.
22:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I wanted to do those two last year.
22:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, the second one was very meaningful since that was my son's first backpacking, backcountry trip with me, and his first summit of with me, said that emotional attachment really wanted to do it.
22:39
[SPEAKER_03]: And so last year, my permit got canceled a week before.
22:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I was very well prepared for it.
22:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Since there was no races last year, I really focused more on the training for that FKT.
22:53
[SPEAKER_03]: But like I said, my permit got canceled a week before it, because they had a lot of wildfires in that general area and so the trails were closed.
23:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So then I said, okay, maybe I do it next year.
23:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So got a new permit this year and then decided to do it and it was an August 12 and the record is 15 little over 15 hours.
23:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And I figured, I can probably do it in about 12 hours.
23:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Worst case, it's going to be 13 or 14 hours, but I should get that record, because the record is pretty soft.
23:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I personally still think that the record is soft and that I can get it and that I can go into 12 hours.
23:39
[SPEAKER_03]: But I had some on-for-seen problems.
23:45
[SPEAKER_03]: The scary thing is,
23:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me walk you through through.
23:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, walk us through.
23:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to know like what went wrong or what happened that where it started to go south.
23:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So I started out and I felt, okay, I didn't feel like super great, but I didn't feel bad.
24:06
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, first climb right on time on the part between miles.
24:13
[SPEAKER_03]: aid and 13, I was a little slower than I thought I would be, but still way ahead of still long on track for like way below 15 hours, still like two or three hours ahead of that record, you know, got over the highest pass, which is forced the pass at 13, actually second highest on this
24:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I'm going to feel better when I come down because it's the altitude, a pretty high up, you know, as you descend, you start feeling better.
24:46
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a long, very runnable section.
24:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to feel better there, you know, and that all went pretty good.
24:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Started to feel the altitude a little bit like, you know, I am from sea level, and so I didn't do much
25:09
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you're in and out so quickly that you can probably deal with it.
25:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's some of the usual stuff, which is don't feel like eating, but nothing really unusual.
25:24
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got two-pound mile, 30, still fairly good on time, and had to climb up to Mount Whitney on the best side on the west side of Mount Whitney,
25:38
[SPEAKER_03]: the past down to the Whitney portal and on that climb I started to get really really bad lower back pain and I was like, well, you know, I've been out here for whatever nine hours, ten hours at that point, high power hiking a lot on the climbs,
26:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I had, uh, just the regular hydration packs.
26:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't have a big backpack or anything, but still that kind of factors in, you know.
26:11
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, well, it's probably gonna get better as soon as I'm on top and I go downhill.
26:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Any God worse and worse and worse and maybe half a mile before the top where you cresting over to go downhill, I started leaning to my side.
26:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've seen that with some ultra runners at the end of 100 mile races, where they used their new step stabilization and they lean to the side.
26:39
[SPEAKER_03]: But I've seen it, but I didn't know much about it.
26:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And within a mile, it got so bad that I was walking like a trunk person.
26:51
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, when you see those,
26:52
[SPEAKER_03]: There's funny videos where the police make someone walk on a straight line and they walk through step straight and then one step left and one step backwards because they're so trunk.
27:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I started walking like that and I was like, wow, this is really weird.
27:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I literally walked through step forwards, one step sidewards, one backwards.
27:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, wow, this is crazy and
27:20
[SPEAKER_03]: started also at the same time, getting a little bit nervous because the Whitney Trail where I was there are coming down is, for the top part, very, where the 99s, which backs are and everything, it's very treacherous.
27:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a lot of steep rocky transitions and stuff and I had to really slow down and use my hands, and my poles and go really slow.
27:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Fala couple of times where I was just losing my balance going backwards and I got I have to admit I got a little bit scared about like man.
27:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm I'm in trouble here, you know I was Somewhat prepared.
28:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean I had like my in-reach satellite device so I started texting My family who was waiting at the portal for me
28:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, you know, I'm doing fine.
28:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just moving slow.
28:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So I can be an hour late.
28:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And then text that, oh, I'm moving even slower.
28:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Can I be two hours late?
28:26
[SPEAKER_03]: But I was still on pace to break that 15 hour course record, FKT, right?
28:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And, but then I just started getting slower and slower and slower.
28:43
[SPEAKER_03]: at one point I was like, this is very dangerous.
28:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I could right now just lose my balance and fall and really, really be injured myself.
28:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And by now it had gotten so late that it was maybe about half an hour from getting dark.
29:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And I still had about five miles to go and I was like, there's no way I can
29:08
[SPEAKER_03]: walk the way I'm walking in the dark.
29:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's, it's way dangerous in daylight.
29:14
[SPEAKER_03]: So I made the call to send a message to my in-reach, to my family, and told them, hey, I'm good.
29:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not hurt really.
29:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I just can't move any longer.
29:28
[SPEAKER_03]: It's getting too dangerous with this condition, and I'll just
29:37
[SPEAKER_03]: got my emergency PV out and pretty much just like cutled up on the side of the trail and slept until 4 or like by now it was like 9.9.30 probably 10 o'clock until I was all settled down and then often on slept for a few hours and I got up at 3.30 and my back was perfectly fine
30:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I acted out for the last five months.
30:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Missing the FKT, but happy that you were okay.
30:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but now it was like, I think I actually finished in 26 hours or something or 25 and a half hours.
30:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, really start to finish, but at this point, I just was like, what concerned about safety or anything, you know?
30:33
[SPEAKER_02]: what when you decided to sleep on the side of the trail and pull like your emergency baby did it become real to you or was that something you were processing okay or was it like this is crazy or it's like now this might have happened and I'm ready for it.
30:52
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what it was a little bit crazy because getting into this I want to say maybe that's
31:03
[SPEAKER_03]: a good runner.
31:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And you've done those things before.
31:07
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've done, like, I've done plenty of backpacking, multi-day backpacking.
31:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I've done some mountaineering trips.
31:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I've ran raises up 200 miles in distance where it gets rough and you're throwing up and things are really rough.
31:25
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought
31:33
[SPEAKER_03]: If I, if like, I run out of energy, worst case, I'll just walk out, no big deal.
31:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Worst case, the last eight miles that all downhill, worst case, I'll just walk down to the portal and I finish at 10 o'clock in the dark, 11 o'clock in the dark, no big deal.
31:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Or the other thought was, yes, something could happen.
31:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I could trip and fall and break my leg.
32:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And I need to get like, search and rescue involved, and get put out on the horse or helicopter or whatever.
32:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Like a true accident.
32:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I did not consider something like this happening, because my wife said, should we send search and rescue?
32:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, no, I'm fine.
32:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I didn't plan that doesn't sound very encouraging to your wife.
32:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Do we need this in search or else you know, no, you don't, but I can't walk anymore.
32:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there wasn't, you know, it was just this, this, and I found out later on, I talked to a couple of physical therapists, massage therapists, and people in the sport have experience with this, and they said, what happened to me, it's a
32:51
[SPEAKER_03]: can happen.
32:52
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a common thing.
32:53
[SPEAKER_03]: It often happens to older athletes, usually older than me, and it's your QL muscle which stabilizes that you're straight.
33:04
[SPEAKER_03]: You have one on the left and one on the right side and it connects your hip with your spine with your ribs.
33:12
[SPEAKER_03]: And if that muscle goes out on one side, you're leaning to that side.
33:17
[SPEAKER_03]: and you're just like leaning over and you just can't go straight anymore.
33:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I was literally like completely leaned over to my left side and they all thing probably with a lot of the power hiking and everything, a lot of the steps that that muscle event for some reason just froze.
33:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And so after laying down flat for like a few hours, the muscle like
33:45
[SPEAKER_03]: went back to work and I could get up and was straight and could just walk out, you know.
33:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And I never thought something like this would happen.
33:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I thought worst case, I'll just walk out slowly.
33:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And but it was just too dangerous to walk with this leaning condition and like walking like a trunk, and so yeah, when I was laying down my,
34:09
[SPEAKER_03]: BV said, I was like, wow, I'm, I'm glad I brought this BV because it got pretty cold.
34:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I spent the night, it was still about like probably between 10 and 11,000 feet, laying on the ground in the Sierra.
34:23
[SPEAKER_03]: It got pretty chilly, you know, and I was like glad I brought it.
34:29
[SPEAKER_03]: But I was like, wow, this is real, man.
34:31
[SPEAKER_03]: This,
34:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I never would have thought I would end up like this, you know.
34:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
34:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And that shows you just how fine the line is between being in a really tough situation and how undramatic it can be.
34:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It is literally, I'm not feeling well.
34:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I got to lay down.
34:51
[SPEAKER_02]: If you didn't have that baby, there's...
34:53
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's a threat.
34:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And that bitty by the way is just an emergency blanket.
34:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just one of those reflective blankets.
34:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not anything really to keep you that warm.
35:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's literally just an emergency.
35:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Things can go south very quickly.
35:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
35:08
[SPEAKER_03]: And the thing is, I mean, I guess that's where I have enough experience.
35:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I like, I want to say that the 10 year younger version of me,
35:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I would have probably just ran with like a water bottle and a handful of goods, but having that experience that I have now, and especially with what happened, I'm very thankful.
35:34
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I brought the first aid kit, which worked great as a pillow and I brought an emergency BV, I brought extra clothing.
35:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I actually brought some long pants and extra jacket
35:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And I brought a bini with me, all the things that I thought I would never need on this one, but I brought them anyway, because, but not for what happened.
36:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I brought them for the situation.
36:03
[SPEAKER_03]: What if I fall and I break my leg and it takes search and rescue five hours to come up and by then it's dark and I'm cold and it may be start getting windy.
36:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I brought it for that worst case scenario.
36:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't really bring it.
36:20
[SPEAKER_03]: thinking that something like my text, like, I'm okay, but I can't go any further.
36:27
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I didn't really think about using it for that purpose.
36:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, that is, that is wow, and I'm looking at the picture of that, Vivia, it doesn't look very comfortable.
36:40
[SPEAKER_02]: You were laying on rocks.
36:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably was a rough night, but you woke up thankfully safe.
36:47
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think you learned through this experience?
36:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do want to say, doing some research on this and some research in the area, there have been four different
36:58
[SPEAKER_02]: uh, men who have died this summer on solo adventures like you're doing very experienced ultra runners, um, backpackers, someone was climbing Mount Whitney, four different, just men have have perished in different ways.
37:15
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think is going on?
37:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it seems to be almost something in the area with experienced people, and what did that teach you?
37:22
[SPEAKER_02]: What you went through?
37:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
37:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I think part of the problem with the Whitney areas that a lot of people who go there live at sea level like me and have no experience with altitude and then they go to altitude and they have to really get into trouble.
37:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I know I had mild altitude symptoms but I've been to altitude so many times.
37:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean I've been to
37:49
[SPEAKER_03]: the Himalayans, and I've been to Mount Kilimanjaro and Kotopaxi and Ecuador and stuff like that.
37:56
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think I have a field for that, but it can hit you.
38:01
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's something that's out of your control.
38:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that happens a lot at Mount Whitney.
38:05
[SPEAKER_03]: People come from like Southern California, living at sea level, and they just drive up there, and they're not used to that sort of an exposure.
38:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And if they get symptoms, they're not really,
38:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so it is, it is, but then whenever you go into the back countries, although it is dangerous and there is a risk that's out of the discussion and what I did, I knew is a risk, I mean, I could have, just could have had the perfect day running really, really well, being on even faster pace than my estimated 12 hours and like tripping on a rock and falling and
38:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?
38:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's there's always that risk, you know, and obviously, if that happens during an organized race, chances of survival are not better because there's other people running by you.
39:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, the witness trail where I was there was plenty of other people.
39:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I could have asked people for help in a worst case.
39:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw plenty of people, you know,
39:14
[SPEAKER_03]: But in the race, you have like an eighth station, and they have a car, and they can drive you out and all this stuff that helps, should you get injured to get help faster versus if you fall in a trail and you're pleading heavily or something, it takes a while to get a helicopter there.
39:31
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so always in the risk, uh, way bigger.
39:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So I would just say from this, whatever I've learned is to definitely.
39:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe be a little less arrogant about it.
39:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Kind of like, oh, yeah, I'm going to be fine.
39:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Worst case I would walk it out.
39:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Ma, what if you can, you know?
39:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe be even more aware of the risks involved with it.
40:00
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and maybe that changes your mind about should I do this or not, you know?
40:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you planning to go back after that FKT and get it?
40:14
[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny like, when I told my wife that I'm doing this podcast, she asked me the same thing.
40:23
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like so, and I was like, I don't know.
40:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I would love to because I know, I would love to have this FKT, just because I'm so emotionally attached to it, because like I said, that was that first picture with my son,
40:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And now after this failure, I feel even more attached to it.
40:44
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's definitely that desire to go back.
40:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I started picking up a strength program with a strength coach since then.
40:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe in a year, I'm so strong that I don't have to have that fear of this weakness in my back kicking in again.
41:09
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think I wouldn't take it as light-hearted as I did.
41:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I would do it and really prepare more specifically for it.
41:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I just sort of made it out of my current fitness without specifically training for it, because it wasn't the highlight of my season.
41:31
[SPEAKER_03]: It was more sort of like, oh, I have to have a couple of raises that I want to do really well.
41:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I'll squeeze in that FKT based on the fitness I have.
41:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think should I go back next year?
41:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I would definitely make it more of a focus and actually be better prepared than just using my fitness that I have.
41:52
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I don't want to say no, I'm never going to go back.
41:56
[SPEAKER_03]: So
41:58
[SPEAKER_02]: any lesson.
42:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure I mean you share a lot of great feedback there, but any specific lesson you would share with anyone else that might be entering the backcountry soon or thinking there, you know, I'm experienced enough.
42:11
[SPEAKER_02]: We get a lot of listeners like that on the show.
42:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, like I said, the 10 year younger version of me would have probably not
42:27
[SPEAKER_03]: or a first aid kit, you know.
42:30
[SPEAKER_03]: So definitely plan for the worse, you know, and even like, like in example, when last year when I did that shorter FKT, that was like just a little over four hours, I didn't bring anything.
42:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't bring a first aid kit.
42:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't bring an emergency blanket.
42:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I just, I figured what, four hours.
42:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It takes me six hours, right?
42:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I had that same sort of approach, and it all went well.
43:00
[SPEAKER_03]: If I would do that, FKT again, because how remote it was going across the Sierra, I would definitely bring, if I would do it again, I would definitely bring an emergency blanket, some warm clothes, what if you slip and fall and in a creek and then you get hypothermia and you're getting cold and you can't walk anymore
43:24
[SPEAKER_03]: It takes six hours for rescue crew to come or something, so definitely plan for that.
43:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Even if it's a shorter FKT where you think, well, it's just four hours which I didn't do last year.
43:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So that would be my advice to definitely plan for those situations.
43:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And then obviously, I mean, I always do that.
43:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I did that last year too.
43:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Like some sort of spot in reach, whatever, you know, like satellite device, you can communicate and call search and rescue in the worst case, you know, just to be safe, you know, that's really the number one advice I would have.
44:09
[SPEAKER_02]: great advice coming from somebody who's faster than probably anyone else listening or at least close to it in very well experienced times work in working people find out more about you and what you do and if you don't mind talking about crazy adventures I love for you to share a little bit about the snowman race that you that you're a part of.
44:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah so the snowman race it's a five day
44:39
[SPEAKER_03]: obviously a very far remote country.
44:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And about two years ago, the King of Bhutan started this initiative to bring awareness to climate change, which unfortunately Bhutan is very affected by, because melting glaciers and small mountain towns getting wiped out and stuff like that.
45:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Even so, a lot of people don't know this, but Bhutan is the only or one of the only two by now, carbon-negative countries in the world.
45:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me repeat that carbon-negative.
45:15
[SPEAKER_03]: But they are paying the price for climate change because they are like, right next to China and India, which are two huge polluters, and they have a lot of clasers melting.
45:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, he wanted to bring awareness to that.
45:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And therefore, they plan to raise, called the snowman race, which is on the snowman tracking route, which is a very remote tracking route in the Bhutan Himalayan Mountains.
45:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they started organizing these race, and they looked for help, and a friend of mine got hired as the race director and organizer.
45:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And he brought me on as the elite athlete manager.
46:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's an invite only people had to send in the application and hence elected field of 25 people from all over the world to go to that race.
46:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it was supposed to be in October last year.
46:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Got canceled, obviously due to COVID.
46:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And then this year we unfortunately had to postpone it again to next year.
46:23
[SPEAKER_03]: because the ongoing June to live when we had to make the decision that's when the Delta variant was obviously very bad in India and Bhutan is still not open because such a small remote country.
46:38
[SPEAKER_03]: They're still not open for tourism because they can't afford getting COVID there, even though they have like, I think that some of the highest vaccination rates in the world,
46:49
[SPEAKER_03]: But they're still just afraid because they just don't have the infrastructure to handle a major outbreak there.
46:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And so yeah, so unfortunately, you had to postpone it again to next year.
47:00
[SPEAKER_03]: So, but yeah, I'm really excited.
47:02
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like such a beautiful country, beautiful people.
47:05
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't know anything, if you're interested in climate change and have an interest in Bhutan, I would highly recommend to go on YouTube and search
47:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Bhutan, Prime Minister, TED Talk, the Prime Minister of Bhutan, did his TED Talk like, I don't know, it's like, maybe like three, four or five years old, where he talks about climate change and Bhutan and how the country is around, and it's just great.
47:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I would highly recommend anyone to spend the, it's like a 15-minute TED Talk to watch that.
47:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And then as far as like, you know,
47:47
[SPEAKER_03]: following me and my adventures.
47:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm mostly active on Instagram.
47:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not doing much on Facebook anymore because there's just too much hatred on Facebook.
47:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't go there and see everyone's political reigns that I don't agree with.
48:05
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just too painful that that platform.
48:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm genuinely on Instagram posting photos, you know, my run and adventures and updates.
48:14
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, if you want to
48:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Look for me there, that would be like the best place.