Latest / Skin Anarchy / Experiencing Truly Efficacious Skincare With Exponent Beauty Founder, Liz Whitman

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Experiencing Truly Efficacious Skincare With Exponent Beauty Founder, Liz Whitman · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so before the episode starts, I wanted to pop in and mention that Exponent has been really kind to us and offered us an exclusive discount code for just our listeners.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I am such a fan of this opportunity because I really love this line.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I use it in my own routine.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: It has made a significant impact for my skin.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I notice results every single day that I use it.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I really urge you guys check them out and you know, just you know, try the new approach because they've got a really unique approach in the way that they're um, you know, presenting skincare to us.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think that you're gonna learn all about it, obviously, in the episode, but you know, when you try it, you're it's gonna really speak to you if you're a true skincare enthusiast or somebody just looking for efficacious products, you know, in general.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I don't offer this a lot on our on our uh podcast because I want it to be very unique.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you, you know, if I really believe in a line, that's when we really offer um the opportunity to have a discount code available.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And Explonent was really kind to us.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: They offered us a 20% off for all of our listeners, and I would love for you to avail it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if you go to exponentbeauty.com, enter the code D-R-E-K-T-A-20 Dr.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Ecta20 at checkout, you will get 20% off your first order.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is just for our listeners, and I really urge you guys again, you know, you really need to check it out because once you try the line, it's gonna speak for itself.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that's D-R-E-K-T-A, K before the T 20 at checkout.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Check it out, listen to the episode.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna fall in love, I promise.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope you really enjoy the line.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Future Anarchy.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Eta, and today I have the wonderful founder of such a beautiful brand with me today.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Lately, I have been so focused on the true efficacy of what we are really using.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know a lot of us have our own definition of, you know, when products are truly efficacious or not.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, it really is about so many details that go into it.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And part of it is really about how your pocket, you know, your products come to you, you know, how they're delivered, and then how you utilize them, you know, how they're dispensed in every use and all these little nitty-gritty details that I've been very um picky about over the years.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, they're very much um involved in, you know, we we came out with the seal lace lease that's you know really heavy on this aspect as well, you know, making sure these kind of aspects are accounted for.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait to introduce this brand to you because they are really checking off all of the boxes that I consider to be, you know, really in line with scientific efficacy and the standards we should all be following.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So let me stop ranting.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to introduce you guys to the founder of Exponent Beauty, Liz Whitman.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Liz.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so honored to be hosting you.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love your brand.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, thank you so much, Ecta.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just so flattered that you invited me on, and I'm excited to just geek out on all things clinical skincare.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm so excited.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, like when I first tried the brand, I was like, this is awesome.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is what we need, you know, in terms of just like I said, you know, when I started the episode, it's like it checks so many of my boxes as a consumer.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: It really checks off so many of them for me, you know, from a scientific level.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't wait to dive into that, Liz.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I really want to get started with um more of understanding, you know, what led to the creation of the brand and understanding your background.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could walk us down memory lane, that'd be a great place for us to begin.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, obviously the premise of the brand is that there's a pretty unsettling secret uh in the skincare industry.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that is, of course, that the most beneficial ingredients that you can find in skincare, like antioxidants, such as vitamin C and retinol, degrade really rapidly once exposed to air, light, and water.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So Exponent is truly the first skincare system that fully protects those active ingredients.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you're getting peak potency in every dose.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure we'll dive into the premise and how it works and the innovation that went into it.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in terms of how I kind of found myself on this crazy, crazy journey, um, I have been in the beauty industry my whole career.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, most recently, I was the president of the Red Door by Elizabeth Arden, so the largest national salon and spa retailer.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it was really there that I had sort of the inspiration that would eventually lead to the founding of Exponent.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So essentially, Ekta, I was at our Fifth Avenue flagship location, beautiful spot, uh, in one of our oversized terry cloth robes that no one looks good in, let's be honest.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um getting a facial from one of our star aestheticians, a fabulous woman named Nina.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Nina came over to the US in the 80s from Russia.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: She trained in the original art and aesthetics program, which is very much rooted in traditional French uh cosmetology practices.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And she was giving me a facial.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: She was meant to be basically teaching me about our protocols and our products, right?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I just entered this new role and I wanted to get up to speed.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, she spent a ton of time talking about why we mix serums and moisturizers and treatments fresh before applying them to guests.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: The reason being that these active ingredients are super, super fragile and degrade rapidly once mixed with water and exposed to air and light.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm sitting there and what she said is sort of circling around in the back of my brain, I should totally be enjoying myself.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yet my head's going a million miles a minute, which is if that's true, how effective can pre-mixed traditional skincare products actually be?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so that uncomfortable thought sort of sat in the back of my head for a few years.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I'm embarrassed.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't do anything with it for a few years.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um fast forward, I stepped down from my role.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I moved to San Francisco and had some time on my hands to figure out kind of what I wanted to do next.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I just couldn't get this sort of sneaking suspicion out of my head.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that led me to the next step on my journey.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: The next step on my journey was not, oh, I'm gonna go make a skincare brand.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: How many skincare brands are out there?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: The world doesn't just need another skincare brand.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: The first step on my journey was actually, how big a problem is this really?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I did was I bought the top selling clinical skincare products on the market, products you have absolutely heard of, probably have tried, might be in your medicine cabinet right now.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I sent them to a third-party lab to test the concentration of the active on day one through day 60.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So over the course of the use of the product, just like a consumer would be using it.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what we found is that these products lost about 40% of their ingredient concentration in a mere six weeks.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, yeah, and you're, you know, obviously such an expert in the industry.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Stability is something that is unknown, right?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about it all the time as formulators and product developers, et cetera.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I wasn't surprised that I found degradation, but I was surprised by the order of magnitude.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, that's a huge I don't want to interrupt you, but that's really fast.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like six weeks, like that's huge.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, how many of you out there are using products and it says 12 months on the bottle?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's good, it's good for 12 months, but here we are with data that proves that things are degrading faster.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's totally nuts.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And look, I mean, again, if you're somebody who's using a$20 skincare product or$200 skincare product, I don't care.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just ridiculous that you're not going to get any benefit from it in such a short period of time.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I mean, I don't want to call it outrage per se, because that sounds like much more angry than I actually am, but it was it was a very compelling sort of research project, if you will, where I was like, this problem is actually big enough that I am actually interested in trying to solve it.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so that kicked off what would end up being a three-year research and development journey um to invent exponent.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and as I always say, if I had known at that moment that it was going to be three years, I'm not 100% sure I would have taken the leap of faith.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's like a really long time.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I come out the other side.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very happy I did.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so what I did was I actually assembled just like an incredible industry insider team, like a fabulous product developer who actually invented a number of dermatologist brands, um, a fabulous chemist uh who invented a number of um Korean skincare brands, um, and then a fantastic team of industrial designers and engineers.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what I think is really important about this team that we pulled together is I was looking specifically for people who had massive amounts of experience, but was willing to entertain the idea that their careers had been spent making these standard products and we were going to approach it in a very non-conventional way.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a very special personality type.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very special sort of problem solver.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel um very, very privileged that I found these folks to work with.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we put our hands together and we invented exponent beauty.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So exponents, uh, innovation really lies on two levels.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: The first is in terms of our formulas.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: What we've done is we've essentially powderized our antioxidant ingredients, our fragile, beneficial anti-aging ingredients.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And by doing that, we keep them inert and so we keep them at high potency.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, those powders are activated in the moment with a really silky hyaluronic acid hydrator so that you're getting a fresh serum every time.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I can deliver you the optimal concentration of that ingredient in every dose every time you use it.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the second part of the innovation was obviously in the experience, right?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: We knew no one was going to mortar and vessel a bunch of stuff in their bathroom and powder flying around, and it's a whole big mess, right?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so the industrial design and engineering team uh invented a way to precisely dose powder.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So our activator system essentially doses a precise amount of powder and a precise amount of liquid in one short movement before the consumer then mixes it and applies the fresh serum.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our system actually was awarded three different patents.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it turns out dosing a precise amount of powder is typically done in single-use disposable packaging in the pharma industry.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So super, super proud that we were able to crack the code there.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then a couple other things to just keep in mind about the line.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, all of our formulas are clinically tested.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Ecta, you and I know there's a difference between objective clinical testing with measured instrumentation and consumer perception testing.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: We've held ourselves to that higher standard.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and all five of our serums have just had tremendous results across the board for all sorts of anti-aging concerns.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: So fine lines and wrinkles and brightening and firming and reducing pore size.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so really, really proud.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's been it's been a journey, um, but just very excited to put something out there that I'm really proud of and that I know works.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and maybe this is my penance for having hacked a lot of products that are overpromised and underdelivered for my career.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, this is a it's brilliant, you know, Liz.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I really, really, I can't say that enough.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's truly, truly innovative.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why I, you know, I've been excited about the brand ever since I saw you guys because, you know, I'm not gonna lie to you, and I think you and I spoke about this, you know, casually before was this idea that, you know, growing up for me, you know, I've I've been in a lab since I was seven years old, you know.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: So being in a wet lab and seeing how reagents are sent to us by, you know, these um, you know, these science, scientific, you know, companies that are making things like reagents for PCR and all this stuff, we don't ever get things that are, you know, pre-mixed.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't get that.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you are sent you're sent things in powdered form, you are sent the components, and then you combine things as needed based on a specific calculation, you know, you know, you calculate all the things like osimilarity, you call, you know, all the little nitty-gritty details that need to be calculated so that you get the right dose with every amount that you pipette out.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And like this concept for me, you know, I know like I have the science background, but as a consumer, you know, for me, that's huge, you know, to get the dose right.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't see how you can get the dose right if you don't have a dispensing mechanism that's doing the homework for you to begin with.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like I look at so many brands, right, Liz, and I'm always so baffled because I'm like, I obviously I believe you.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's amazing, amazing science out here, right?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: In the industry.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I've had the privilege of hosting so many great brands, but what my problem always becomes is that I don't like that we don't put enough control into the hand of the consumer and give people that taste of like, this is what it feels like to dose your product.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is what it should look like.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like the physical, tangible, like habit-forming ritual of this is how much powder is equivalent to how much serum I should be putting on my face.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I that's that's what I really love about Exponent because you are not only obviously you have the efficacy and the beautiful clinical studies there and the the real nitty-gritty science, but even on a psycho, you know, psychological level, uh, you know, an understanding of just human nature, you know, you're creating this the space for consumers to kind of get into it.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like an experiment every time you mix your serum, you know, and you you get used to that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And now when you're going there, you're going out, even if you have other products in your routine for everyone listening out there, you know, if you have other products in your routine, that's fine.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: But now you'll know, like, this should be the amount that I have, you know what I mean, for one dose of application of a serum.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's technically what it should be, because here, you know, the exponent exponent beauty has done the homework for you.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the whole idea.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I'm really, really just I really applaud you, you know, because you've done that homework for the consumers, you've done the research and put it into a place where, you know, it's usable by everybody.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I, I, I, you know, I I'm so thankful that you did that.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: We need more of that.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm smiling, you know, and this like concept of sort of compounding things, which you do all day long, as you mentioned, right, in the lab.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's how these products used to be made.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: When you look back uh on the history, right, of cosmetics generally.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: It used to be that you would go to a pharmacist and the pharmacist would compound your cream right then and there and hand it to you, right?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so there was this kind of freshness element baked into, and some expertise, obviously, baked into the ratios of which ingredients, et cetera.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then of course, we went through a massive period of you know industrialization and mass production.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's how we kind of ended up uh in today's world, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Where these products are made, uh, they go to the shelf.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they it might be as much as a year before somebody even picks it up, um, a year to 18 months, depending on the supply chain.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then you open it, and as soon as you open it, you've started this ticking time bomb uh on how you know quickly it's going to degrade from there.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, nobody wants to be a pharmacist necessarily and like take the time to become a super expert on like which ingredients and in what ratios and the recipe and all that good stuff.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we've done is just made it very, very simple.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't have to put a lot of thought into it at home.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, for instance, one of our products is uh our brightening boost vitamin C serum.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and based on our dispenser and our patented dosing, you're essentially getting 10% L ascorbic acid in every dose.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we picked 10% because there have been so many uh academic studies on that ingredient that have shown that 10% is sort of the optimal benefit for great changes in the skin without irritation.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the other part of this.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want people titrating these actives.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: These are pretty powerful, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um what if you overdose uh or underdose, you know, like that's not good.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so there's so much magic that's happening behind the scenes and what we can deliver to you just so that you can take it that last step over the finish line.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you're getting that fresh clinical serum every time.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, one of the biggest things that I you mentioned this just now is that this idea of you shouldn't have to titrate, you know, actives.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that for me, I I could you not, you know, I think even just two years ago, the industry was at a place where I would look at it and I would think to myself, I feel like we keep honing in on one ingredient and just maxing it out, you know what I mean?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And not even thinking about the clinical relevance of, you know, the actual concentration of what you're putting on your face.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there is this thing as called toxicity.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening out there, you know, we all know that.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: We all understand it.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that for a long time marketing had taken over.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, it's obviously still there, but like marketing was so strong that no one even brought that up, the idea of toxicology and skincare products, because we didn't want to think about it, you know, we don't want to think about things like too much is too much, you know.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you don't need a 30% vitamin C serum.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you ever put that on your face?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's going to break apart your, you know, it's gonna break your cells apart, literally.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna lice them, you know.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: So at the end of the day, you know, you you want to understand it's like, you know, consumers, I feel like now, Liz, I get so excited because they're they're turning, you know, there a turn is happening and we're turning that corner of understanding the science, you know, and that it does matter, you know.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, like you don't want, like, there's there's this like sweet spot with every single chemical that exists right now, you know, doesn't matter what industry you're talking about, there's a sweet spot with it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Even the bleach that you use to clean your house with or whatever it might be, there's a sweet spot for that kind of stuff.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if you use too much of it, you're gonna cause degradation.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And in the case of the human body, it's usually things like apoptosis of yourself or necrosis in extreme situations.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, like it's it's terrible, right?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I know I'm being a little harsh, but at the end of the day, that's the reality of it.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And as a, you know, as someone in science and medicine, I see it every day because we have people who are literally ODing on things, and there is this concept that applies, you know, even with topical products.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I don't really promote, you know, even for myself, like as a consumer, like if my friends come to me and they'll ask me, right?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, Ecta, give us a recommendation.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: What's your favorite serum right now?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Blah, blah, blah.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm never going to give them an option that gives them too much of anything because you've learned you don't need it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it presents, yeah, what you're saying, which is just like these the industry is obviously it's a commercial industry, right?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So people are just trying to sell products.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what do the consumers focus on and what do they want?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And let me meet those needs.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you're totally right that I feel like in like average consumer awareness of some of these ingredients is at an all-time high, right?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: People are doing a lot of research, and then you have these ingredients that sort of you know get a get ahead of the pack because they're super buzzworthy.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, like vitamin C or retinol, right?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Then you start to see this um this kind of arms race, if you will, on like percentage and concentration, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so such and such a brand comes out with the 15%, and such and such a brand comes out with the 20%, and then all the way up to the 30%.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you're totally right.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and everyone's saying, Oh, well, vitamin C is so good for use.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, I want the one that has the most.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just not true.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: You want that optimal concentration for benefit without irritation.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, I feel like we are living in a world right now where, you know, we're starting to understand that, you know, the products you put on your face, there's about, you know, you have about a leeway, about two to three products you can really put on your face to see results.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, after that, you're kind of, you know, just beating a dead horse, you know, at the end of the day.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it really matters now more than ever for us to be used, whatever we are using, it has to check off the boxes at the end of the day.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Period.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think there's any room for like the excuse anymore that something just looks pretty on your vanity.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing that, you know, Explorant, for example, is a gorgeous brand.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I love it.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love the like static of it and everything.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: But in addition to that, I mean, I care more about the fact that a brand is bringing me efficacy, bringing me results, and showing me how to properly use something that should be under the umbrella of health, you know what I mean, which is skincare.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at the end of the day, you're we talked about this all the time, you know, in the industry, the skin is an organ and you have to treat it as such.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whatever you put on your skin is going to make a lasting impact, and it's going to really impact your overall health because the skin does absorb things, you know, as you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Liz.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we've had this debate time and time again.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's like dermatologists, everyone out here is is talking about this.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And now when I look at your products and I look at what you guys are doing with Exponent, this is so relevant because if you're really absorbing the things that are being topically applied to your skin, dose matters.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Dose really matters now.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I think consumers like we have to like we have to get behind.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: We have to vote with our dollars here because at the end of the day, like you wouldn't want a pharma company selling you a pill that's just bigger, you know what I mean?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just because, hey, you're getting more bang for your buck, you know what I mean?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like you wouldn't want that, right?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's it's just illogical.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, I don't want to rant, but that's that's my point, is that we have to really think about the absorption aspect as well.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, totally.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think again, with the sort of multitude of brands that are out there and so many different sort of murky claims around this, and just it's all just so confusing for the average consumer.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And my heart really goes out to them because at the end of the day, there are some tried and true ingredients in skincare, right?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: I happen to believe that there are 12 that I stand behind, um, antioxidants being a good chunk of those.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, we're living in a world where someone's coming out with like the newest nut from the rainforest that has all these miraculous, you know, properties, but there have been no studies on it, and certainly no longitudinal studies on it or anything else.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think, you know, along the journey for exponent, like it started to become just kind of a bigger mission for me, truly, where it was just like, I want to create products that meet a very simple standard for efficacy.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so for us, our formulation philosophy is the product must include one of the 12 tried and true proven ingredients.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: It must include that ingredient at a meaningful concentration, not just fairy dusted in there, right?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that I can call it a vitamin C serum, but there's only like 1% in there.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it must put money where the mouth is and do real clinical studies.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I completely agree with you.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you said just now, you know, because I think, you know, kind of like in a weird way, like, you know how like a couple of years ago, people used to be like, well, it's if it's too far down on the inky list, you don't even want to consider it having it.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, because it's like it's ridiculous, like less than a percent, right?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like the concentration of an ingredient.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even to add to that now, like I think about it even more in the sense of, well, if it's in, if something is truly like the hallmark of a product, or if it's really there in a meaningful way, it's it's not about how far down the inky list it is.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's about is it in there with only a few other ingredients or not?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's really about like you mentioned a finite number, right?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a totally logical amount.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about like the inky list that have like 40 ingredients.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like literally, why do you have so much?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I understand there needs to be space for preservatives and you know, uh delivery mechanisms and different types of you know, solvents and whatnot.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: But then aside from that, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: There are just too many brands out here that have like ridiculous, like half the packaging, bro, is your inky list.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's crazy.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I and I look at that and I'm like, this is not, that's not good science.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, at the end of the day, I think any chemist would agree that you know, sometimes, you know, even when it comes to the chemical formulation of products, less is better because at least you know that the molecules are interacting the way they should.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you had mentioned those key ingredients, like if these, like for example, antioxidants.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Antioxidants are a must-have for a good skincare routine, period.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, done.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have an antioxidant-rich product, you don't need to add in like an acid.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to add in like a ridiculous amount of other stuff because your product is serving a purpose.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And to find that purpose is a journey.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's where I'm really going um when I, you know, in relation to what you had said, because those ingredients you mentioned, you know, um, that's the whole idea is finding purpose in these ingredients and then utilizing the products that are actually putting them in there, you know, in a in a correct way, in a scientific and efficacious way.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for consumers, it's a lot to think about, you know, at the end of the day, is like, you know, why are you buying what you're buying?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: What's your end goal?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And is this product meeting your end goal?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it's simple.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I really like how you guys are approaching it because if for everyone listening, if you go onto the website, every product exponent has, you got you guys are gonna see like results.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not like a guessing game where you're just like, oh, I wonder if this works.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, it works.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna see it right there, and it's gonna show you this is what happens when you use this product.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I like that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I like the transparency of all of that.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and that's exactly.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you and I obviously could geek out on every level of detail here, but no consumer wants to do that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we've tried to make it as easy as possible.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: We have picked five beautiful ingredients, beautiful, beautiful ingredients that are beneficial.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: We've done the research on exactly how much you need to have of that ingredient in a product to see great benefit.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: We've invented this way of keeping that ingredient fresh and potent every time.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and all you have to do is just choose one of the five based on your skin concerns.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: We have a very limited assortment.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was only interested in working with serums at this point in the brand.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and quite frankly, what we're seeing is that a majority of our consumers are coming in and maybe they're buying the vitamin C to start, and then they're falling in love with it, and they're adding on additional powder tops to mix and match and create their routine.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I I've noticed you guys have this beautiful retinol.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's called the Timer Wine Retinol System for everyone listening.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you can see all the products, by the way.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just for all the listeners, exponentbeauty.com.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can follow along as we're discussing them.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: But the retinol system really intrigued me, Liz.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love for you to talk about it because, you know, I think retinol is a definitely a very, very tricky ingredient for OTC products.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that you guys have, you know, 0.25% retinol, right?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or I I don't know how much you have.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: You yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to talk about that and really um the process of creating this specific product because I think it's definitely for me scientifically the most intriguing.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's it's one of my favorites, of course.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so our timer wind retinol, you're absolutely right.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: It delivers 0.25% retinol in every dose.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is essentially equivalent to the starting RX concentration that you would get with a retinoid prescription.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if you go to a derm, typically they're going to give you a tretinoin prescription for 0.025%.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: A retinoid is worth uh 10x, uh, what an OTC retinol is.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the bang for your buck you're getting with ours, um, is that really optimal concentration for great benefit without irritation.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, beyond that, in our clinical studies on this product, um, we actually screened subjects for sensitive skin.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and we did that very purposely, right?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because retinol is tricky and there's a lot of consumer apprehension around, oh my gosh, am I going to flake and go red?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: And is there going to be this whole purging time, et cetera?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we really wanted to make sure that this was suitable for sensitive skin.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and of the subjects who participated in the study, 100% showed a decrease in global facial lines uh and wrinkles without irritation.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it is suitable to be used every night.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to build up to it.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really beautiful product.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost even like you can think of it as being um essentially pre-buffered to some degree, right?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not just retinol in there, right?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: We obviously have other ingredients.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you're combining it with a hyaluronic acid, there's some vitamin E in there, um, and then there's some Allantoin.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so all those things combined just keep it very, very desensitizing, but still very effective.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that there is it is in a low concentration, and you've you've really given the thought to the whole idea of prescription, you know, like how prescriptions work, and really, you know, keeping that in mind because I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm being very transparent.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I recently did a podcast on, you know, like an interview on another show, and they asked me about retinol, and I was like, I'm a very picky consumer when it comes to retinol products.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the for reason for that is exactly what we've been talking about here, and um, that's something I see exponent really mitigating, you know, my concerns as a consumer, which is too much, right?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of these products, you know, sometimes you're applying them and you don't, you might think you're seeing results because you're going through, quote, a purging phase, but what that really is is your skin saying, I don't like this stuff.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like with a lot of times with retinol products.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something I really want consumers to understand is that when you have OTC products not formulated in the right dose and it's too much, your skin is gonna go through that purging.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Not because it's cleaning itself out, you guys, but because it's damaging your skin barrier.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's really what's going on, you know.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you've really you've done a great job with this product.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've tried it myself, I've used it consistently.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really, really great product.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have not had any effects that I usually have.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have pretty sensitive skin.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like my skin can pretty much tell me like if it likes it or not, you know, when it comes to any product.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And with retinol, especially.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I really have to give you, you know, huge kudos for this system because I mean, it's really working, and I'm seeing the benefits of retinol, but I'm not seeing the crazy like, you know, like redness, irritation, flaking, dryness, whatever it might be that people get.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't see that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean it a little bit, maybe a tiny bit, but nothing crazy.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I feel like, and the reason I'm I'm even saying this just to, you know, for context for people, is because I feel like there's a culture that's occurred now, you know, around retinol products.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh my God, if you're not flaking, you're not doing it right.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I disagree with that.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: I say, that's actually absolutely wrong.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: You should not be your skin, if it's freaking out, guys, it's freaking out for a reason.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're disrupting its homeostasis.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: And some people don't want to do that, right?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but no, I believe.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yo, thank you.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm so, so pleased that you're you're loving the retinol.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is definitely one of our most popular products, and and consumers get really engaged about it because, you know, typically they've tried other retinoids or retinol uh OTC products before they come to us.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so we do see a lot of people writing in and saying, you know, I was on an RX uh and I could never tolerate it.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I could only use it like two or three nights a week, uh, and I've been able to use your retinol every night without any issues.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm already seeing, you know, the great benefits that that come along with that.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's because it's not just concentration, although I agree with you that like in some cases we're just putting too much on.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's also that Rx retinoids are just single ingredient products, right?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I go back to what I was saying earlier, which is some of this pre-buffering is actually really useful in terms of optimizing the delivery of that ingredient.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so, you know, it's our retinol serum, but I always try to remind people that it's sort of like a two-in-one, right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're getting retinol, but you're also getting your hyaluronic acid hydrator as well.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's like a really nice kind of combo.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I love that.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, um, you know, you had mentioned antioxidants earlier.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that because you guys do have that into the in the line as well, it's a really, really um great thing to have in your line already, because I always say that if you're gonna use it right now, you should be using an antioxidant as well.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've we live in the world of like skin cycling right now, and I think that if you really want to talk about skin cycling, you know, uh cycling your products, you should always be incorporating an antioxidant, you know, in some form in your routine if you're gonna be going with that, because when you have cell turnover, when you're causing you know, uh rapid cell turnover, you're going to be releasing more, you know, reactive oxygen species, and you want to have that definitely.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm I'm a huge believer, you know, in how you have really formulated this line, Liz.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that so like the for me as a science geek, like it just clicks, you know what I mean?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like it really just clicks.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I look at the products and I'm like, damn, she's good.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like she got it, you know, you guys really got it.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: You, you know, and and I think that's where my message to all of my listeners always in that direction of like, make sure you guys are behind the brands that are getting it.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're really doing the homework for you, they're putting out products there you know that are going to work synergistically with one another.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just about, okay, well, you know, they've got one hero product and that's it.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's about every product is in its own way a hero product, you know, because it serves a purpose.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys have done that beautifully.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I just, you know, thank you for doing that.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I mean, the recognition of, you know, us going above and beyond from, you know, scientific experts such as yourself, like truly is like the most flattering thing.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, in addition to obviously selling on exponentbeauty.com, we actually sell through dermatologist offices and high-end med spas.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's some of my favorite conversations is talking with, you know, scientific experts in the community.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because to your point, they totally get it.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh my gosh, all the sense in the world.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're super, super psyched and they're excited to geek out on like every single one of the ingredients.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just I love that.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I think anybody with a size background is gonna geek out over your products.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, it's phenomenal.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've really, really done the homework.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I told you, the the dispensing mechanism alone is like, you know, it's amazing.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like I look at it and I'm like, why did no one else do this before?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, literally, like it's so, so good.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think for um, you know, all the consumers out there, you know, it's a way to have fun, right?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, let's be it's not even about being serious all the time, it's about having fun with your routine.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like for me, I really enjoy the dispensing mechanism and the packaging of the products because at the end of the day, you have fun while you're doing your routine.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a little like, you know, it takes a little bit time to like really understand what you're doing, and you get the feeling of it's my I have control over what I'm putting on my face, you know, like I'm not just putting something out of a tube, you know, dispensing it out of tube in unnecessary amounts and just hoping to God that this is still active and working.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it takes that outweigh.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, so when you use it, you're like, okay, yes, this is going to work because the, you know, the foolproof stuff is right there for me.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, it's actually proven to work.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I really love that.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I like that you brought that out, you know, for consumers to enjoy, because I think, you know, we take a lot of pride as as individuals in our routines.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And for me as a consumer, I take a lot of pride in my skincare routine.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: It is the highlight of my evening or wherever whenever I choose to do it.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I'm one of those consumers.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if anyone can relate, you know, who's listening in, but I take my time with my routine, you know, I think about the products I want to use.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm using them, uh whatever I'm putting my time into, I want to make sure it's working, you know, and and not cluttering my vanity at the end of the day.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I, you know, I'm a huge fan, Liz.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that anyone who tries the brand is gonna see exactly what I'm talking about.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I really encourage everyone, you need to check it out and try it for yourself because it really is game-changing.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you see the formulas being dispensed, when you see the products being dispensed, you're doing it yourself, you're seeing it, it's gonna form a habit for you mentally.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that habit is gonna stick with you and it's going to start making you rethink, you know, about everything else that you're using in your routine and you know what you're willing to put up with, right?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, like, are you willing to put up with spending$300 on certain products that don't give you results?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like a lot of people do that.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like they do, uh no.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: In the early days when I was working on this and I had just done that third-party research on competitor brands.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I told you I'd moved to San Francisco, and that's why I was thinking about what I wanted to do next.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I was meeting all these new people, right?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just like building some friends and getting to know folks, right?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I would meet somebody new and they'd say, What are you working on?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I would explain what I had found.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you could just see the crestfallen face.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I had just smacked a puppy in front of them or something, you know, it was just, oh shit, oh my God.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just such disappointment because no consumer is is trying to spend however much money on a product that doesn't work.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the industry to date has been sort of designed to be a little opaque, right?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, everyone is trying to make the right decision there.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I have to thank you.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have to thank you for your fabulous, fabulous, flattering comments on our precision dispensing system, because that actually is kind of a remarkable lift.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, took us a really long time.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: There, there are 22 different parts in the entire system that operate it.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and like I said, it took us about three years um to create it.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the reasons why it actually took as long as it did, besides you know, the precision dispensing, which obviously is functionally the most important thing that it does, I felt like it was very important for us to make it fully refillable and eliminate plastic waste in our packaging.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just something that is meaningful to me.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted us to nail that.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously, first and foremost, we're about efficacy and clinical results, but just I don't think anyone has any business like throwing, you know, plastic into landfills anymore.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that actually made it even more of a challenging kind of design criteria.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm really, really proud of that.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: And for that, we were actually certified as a B corporation even prior to our launch, uh, which again is just preserving kind of the legacy and in our corporate DNA of trying to do the right thing for our packaging.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you've done that homework as well, because I know, you know, as consumers, we want to do right by our environment.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all of us do, but sometimes we end up making choices because out of necessity, you know, let's be honest, out of necessity.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, sometimes, you know, those choices aren't the best for our environment and for our climate and everything.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I really, really appreciate that you guys did that.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as I I think that, you know, when a brand is well thought out, it shows, you know, it really shows.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys are just hitting all the right, you know, all the right things.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that you put so much love and thought into it, I mean, that is really showing itself.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's speaking, you know, for itself.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really, really love the products.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, if you try them, you'll see the efficacy, obviously.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: But again, you know, things like sustainability, yeah, that's huge, you know.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and if you can find, I always tell people, you know, find a system that you feel like you can stick to for at least a year.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you don't feel like you want to repurchase a product, you shouldn't be trying it in the first place.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like you should not use products that you guys think are just gonna be replaceable by something else.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like find find the brands that are filling the white space.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Use those brands because once you do, you're gonna stick to it and it's going to actually have a greater impact than just better skin.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be great for the environment, it's gonna be great for your budget.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, think about, you know what I mean, like the money that you spend on products and how many times, you know, somebody might rebuy something.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're creating waste, but you're also cluttering your own life and confusing yourself.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that with Exponent Beauty, I think I just I love that part where it's like, you know, I know that every time you use the product, it's going to work.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: And also, yeah, the waste thing is huge.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think right now we don't have the option anymore as humanity to keep thinking about this stuff, you know, like it's time to take action and to really back up the brands that are here to do it, you know, and that they're showing it to us.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so as consumers, there's really no excuse anymore.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: We have to get behind it.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm a huge fan.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge fan of every aspect and every detail.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you had said that earlier.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the detail, the the beauty is in the details, really.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, with skincare, it's just time to like make a shift as consumers, you know.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think like it's just it's here now, you know, you have to really think about why we're buying what we're buying and what that's doing for us and everything else.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Explonent is just such a shining example of that.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you know, huge hats off.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm such a cheerleader for you guys, and I can't wait to see what you what you do next and what products might come out.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: But on that note, I really would love to hear.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, is there anything else in the pipeline right now that we can look forward to?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or um yeah, absolutely.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're always working on ways to kind of innovate around these delivery systems for these tried and true ingredients, right?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so um our precision dispensing system that you know and love today uh is our first foray, right, into antioxidants and working with antioxidant ingredients.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, next year you'll start to see some new things coming out that actually work with.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: With other types of ingredients on our list, right?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: So ingredients like peptides and collagen and ceramides, these ingredients are not unstable.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're not fragile the way antioxidants are.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's not the issue with them.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: The issue with them, ACTA, as you well know, is that they're often large molecular weight ingredients.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not penetrating the skin as much as you would wish they would.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't tell you too much more, but we are working with a pharma company on some interesting ways to actually make those ingredients shine the way that they were supposed to.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited about that.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds really interesting.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think you should see my office.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like one big chemistry lab, and I'm, you know, trying products like all day long.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just doing our homework, guys.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know I love that because you know what?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like that's actually a whole episode on its own, Liz.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, this idea of like molecular weight and of you know chemicals and molecules.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, no, I'm really excited to hear that you guys are working on something along those lines.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: We need that.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: So can't wait.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very, very thrilled.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, for exponent, like what you'll see from us over, you know, the next year, the next five years, the next 10 years is we're just gonna continually innovate on those delivery systems um for tried and true ingredients, and we're gonna put clinical results behind everything we do every single time.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait to see that because I think, you know, see, here's the thing about what you just said, and just to close off that I really think it's important and like send this home, this message home is that like when ingredients really get through, right?
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like they go and do what they're supposed to do.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: The results are so remarkable.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's crazy to me.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I remember three years ago, Liz, when I started Skincare Anarchy, I had I had Durhams telling me, Ecta, you're crazy.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, nothing topical works.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it doesn't work.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sitting here three years later, I'm like, you're wrong.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're wrong.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because it does, and it's all about how you make it, you know what I mean?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's where it's like, you know, I'm so excited to see you guys, you know, spearheading such a beautiful movement in this industry because I think consumers have spent so long trying so much, and to finally see a brand stepping up and saying, listen, we're gonna do every single thing right, and we're gonna make sure we're doing right by consumers.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a beautiful thing.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I just, you know, I'm I'm really cheering you guys on, and I can't wait to see everything that comes out, you know, in the coming years.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: That means the world because as I said, three years of RD, it was tark days there, Act.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, this is taking so long.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: But it turns out, like, if you come at a project, you know, with kind of the list of all of the like required check marks you want, and they happen to all be on the right side of where this industry needs to go.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it takes some time to actually make something, right?
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm super, super proud.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: I at the end of the day, it's it's it's when I wake up in the morning and a consumer has left a review and they're talking about drastic visible changes in their skin.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is why I did this, and I can take on anything.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the wind beneath my wings.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: So hearing about your experience um has been so energizing for me.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I, you know, I mean I meant everything I said, and I I love that.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, just to I maybe this will help you feel better.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: My my brother's actually going through his PhD portion of his MD PhD right now.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I kid you not, it's very similar to what you're saying, Liz.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm getting a PhD, you know what I mean?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have so many years and you're finally seeing the results, you know.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like I I'm I'm telling you, this is gonna take off.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: It has to.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a novel idea, and what you guys are doing is literally like no stone unturned kind of stuff.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've never seen it before.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening, like I genuinely mean that.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I've never seen a brand like this before, guys.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they're really Exponent is doing everything right.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, as a scientist, I cannot find a single thing in this brand that I don't approve of in terms of like what I would look for, you know what I mean?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: As just somebody with a science background and in the product I put on my face, especially my face.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so I really encourage you guys to check out the brand explonentbeauty.com.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: I will link everything in the concept art for this episode, as I always do.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, once again, you know, I can't advocate enough for these types of products and this type of innovation.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would love to see all of you get behind this because, like I said, it is about voting with your dollars.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's about making change happen, you know, as a society, as a culture, especially as skincare enthusiasts, all of us are, you know, we love beauty products, but we love stuff that works.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're really about that, you need to rethink, you know, what's in your cabinets, what's on your vanity, what are you using and why?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's the goal?
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you ask yourself those questions and then you, you know, you look towards brands such as Exponent, you're gonna find answers.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I really hope you do because it's wonderful when your products work the way you want them to.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to see that happen for all of you.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: So please, you know, let us know what you think.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: Let us know if you've tried the brand, when you try the brand.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear all your comments and feedback, and I will pass them along to Liz's team.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: But Liz, thank you so much.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: It has been truly an honor to host you.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Ecta.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: This was awesome.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: My favorite meeting of the week.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it again.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 49:44
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• 49:49
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• 49:51
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• 50:06
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• 50:23
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• 50:27
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• 50:32
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• 50:37
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• 50:43
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• 50:48
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