Latest / Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast / The Spouse Perspective and Impact (ODC) (Episode 07)

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The Spouse Perspective and Impact (ODC) (Episode 07) · Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast

• Marc & Stacee: Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. Marc & Stacee: Hey, I'm Mark and along with my wife, Stacey, thank you for living uncertain with us. As you all know, this is a podcast where we talk about all things related to OCD and ERP. Welcome to episode seven, where I'll be sharing my experiences as Stacey's husband and how her OCD has impacted my life, both in the beginning of our life and now. So welcome to episode number seven. Yeah, welcome, y'all. Thank you for being here. So I'm going to kind of start with Opening: and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, Marc & Stacee: If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form. where I noticed her OCD kind of impacting my life. You know, as you all know, we were driving a single car, you know, after we got married and we had two, but we sold one. And that did not actually really seem unnormal to me. It did to other people. Now that I think back and every time I would say, hey, we only have one car and everybody would be like, oh, wow, I wish we could do that. And not really. Opening: I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: knowing the reasoning behind why we had one car. I thought we were doing it just to be responsible, know, young adults trying to save money to buy a house and, you know, all of those fun things that you do. think the part that we overlooked in that scenario and the part that we didn't even think about until later on and the part that does become abnormal when we look back on it is that we not only just had one car, you were the sole driver. of our family, even when it was just the two of us. I took myself out of the driving altogether. And it did not really impact us until we ended up having kids. And that's when I noticed the impact on my life. But, you know, I know I think Stace would say I'm pretty easygoing and mellow and kind of let things roll off my back. ⁓ which I do. You know, my mom told you something about me, what she said about me. Yes, she said that you're you're very kind hearted and you always were even as a little boy. So, you know, I think that that's just kind of who I am and how I've been throughout my whole life. you know, so things. I think one reason why you and I have lasted the 22 years, 24 years. between dating and marriage and kids and everything. You know, to be honest, it's because I don't let some of the bigger stuff ⁓ sweat it. You know, don't sweat the big stuff. I don't even sweat the small stuff sometimes. ⁓ I'm not trying to pat myself on the back or anything like that, but when I'm looking at different, you know, Facebook groups for OCDs, spouses with OCDs and stuff, I see that for some people it's very difficult to... manage a deal with their spouse with OCD and I kind of take it in stride because I know we're in this for the long haul. Yep. My parents were married all the way up until my father's death. Your parents were together all the way up until your mother's passing. know, so that's that's the type of relationships that I know are the ones that last. You know, not that your OCD hasn't been frustrating and a challenge and overwhelming at times. ⁓ It absolutely has and it has caused us, you know, caused us a lot of arguments. don't sugarcoat it at all. Just tell the listeners what we want to hear. We're just going to go straight into it and I know this is hard for sometimes for her to hear because you know once again her OCD and that people pleasing and wanted to make sure I'm good. you know, that can come out in these type of episodes. Mark's right. I feel it is hard for me to listen to how challenging and how difficult it's been for him. And a lot of it is because I have a lot of residual than guilt and some shame over what I feel like I've done to our marriage, to our family, to our home. And even though I've been through so much intensive therapy thus far and I feel so much better about my life and about how I manage my OCD. It isn't going away anytime soon. And so there are days that are better than others, weeks that are better than others. I'm still in therapy. I still challenge myself with ERP opportunities so that I can keep my skillset sharp. That's essentially what it is. And it's not letting OCD win and it's not letting it take over and it's learning how to manage when that comes up better. But to know that I've affected negatively the person who I love more than anything and am choosing to spend my life with is hard. it's a hard truth, but it is the truth. we have to talk about it because like Mark said, there are so many spouses and loved ones out there living with those who have OCD. And to not give them the space of sharing their story and their perspective isn't really doing either person in that relationship any favors, I don't think. It's really looking at both perspectives and working together for the greater good of what you know your relationship can be and what you know the other person can be. And I do know that right now, because of the space that she is in and the space that I'm in with this treatment and the space that our kids are in, we're able to have these open, real, true dialogues regarding the OCD and the impact that it's having on us and our family and what it has in the past. You know, I do know that there's people out there that their spouse is not, you know, on board with necessarily with the treatment or with ⁓ you know, whatever is recommended to help them through their struggles, that can be very, very, very difficult. ⁓ You know, where I noticed it was, you know, after we, you know, our first child and we took in, you know, you know, looking for daycare. That was a big one. You know, as parents, you always want to find the best daycare for your your child and you want to make sure that they're happy and, you know, healthy and being safe while they're there. But ⁓ it became very overwhelming. I recognized for you to drop him off in the mornings. And I also remember a lot of. And at the time, thinking it was. Normal conversation for us or typical conversation for us, which would be a lot of. Checking in. asking questions, then asking again, then checking in again, then seeking more reassurance that he was going to be okay, that he was going to be safe, that we were doing the right thing. And again, like Mark said, so many parents face that every day with daycares and making sure that their children are safe, happy, and healthy. But when you have OCD, it takes a different turn. And those feelings, those thoughts become so intrusive. of something possibly going wrong or something happening that you have to check in for that reassurance so often that it does become interfering to the other person, to your spouse, to your loved one. And even to the workers at the daycare. We happen to know somebody that worked there because you knew them from your previous job and they were willing to share, you know, pictures with you of Miles and daycare to kind of... You know, once again, was feeding the OCD without realizing it was actually feeding the OCD. And now that when I look back at that, that absolutely was happening. She was constantly feeding me. healthy dose of reassurance every day. And to the point to where Stacey wasn't even dropping him off or picking him up, that's what I was doing after work, ⁓ before work and after work, because A, I was the driver of the family and that's just kind of how we had everything set up. Then fast forward, three, four years, four years, then we had our daughter. ⁓ which was also a very interesting story. This is like the one that ⁓ now that I really think about it, you know, she talks about her fear of death. And I know she's not going to be happy that I'm not particularly, but I think that this is raw enough of a podcast where we are really trying to make an impact out there and really trying to build a community that we are bearing all. so that you all can be helped by it too if you so choose and find it helpful because without being genuine and authentic and raw. I don't know. Yeah. So our first child was adopted. We adopted him. Our second one was, you know, you know, she's our biological daughter. ⁓ But the night that, you know, we found out that you were pregnant, you were kind of sick and your mom was like, hey, you might want to take a pregnancy test. And we were we were planning to go back and adopt again. ⁓ But that night we were driving home from work once again together. Stopped by the pharmacy, picked up a pregnancy test, got home and you took the pregnancy test and. It was positive. Yes. And you were extremely scared. I was very distressed. And I will say that I had always had intrusive thoughts because of, like Mark said, my fear of death was very prominent in my life. And at that point in my life, very much so. And I was already having panic attacks, et cetera. And for some reason, I had always had this intrusive thought. that kept looping and reoccurring that if I were to get pregnant that something would happen to me during my pregnancy or during childbirth and then. that would just be that. And so I had this constant looping thought, an intrusive thought over and over about that over the years. And so we did choose, we adopted our first child and had made plans to adopt a second when this happened. And so, yes, truth be told, I did not react as beautifully as I was hoping I maybe would have. Now fast forward almost 15 years later and she's one of the... most amazing people that I know and I'm so glad that we have her. it got so bad that night that we had to go to the walk-in clinic to verify because, you know, the pregnancy test, you know, let's make sure it's true. And then the doctor came back out and said, well, it's true. know, Stacey broke down in tears. But I think it's very raw. But I think it was more about being scared than it was actually about being pregnant. And that I know, thinking back, that was her OCD impacting to the point to where the doctor was concerned about what Stacey would do. And I remember leaving the clinic that night and they were good that we left ⁓ because I reassured them that no, we're good, we're good. We're just a shock to our system. You know, Stacey's absolutely right. You know, our daughter is a wonderful person and a joy of our life. And we wouldn't go back and change anything. As is our son. Amazing kids we have. We have ⁓ two different, very different perspectives. One of the adoption story and one of having your own biological child. And that's an amazing piece of our story that we do have. ⁓ But as we move forward with the kids, as they got older, That's when. the OCD really, really started to impact me. There's always a lot of checking in. Checking in for the reassurance that the kids are okay. Checking in for the reassurance that, did I, is it okay that I made that decision? Oh, is it okay that I let them do this? Or, oh, should I let them do that? I could never feel like I could make a choice or make a decision on behalf of my kids without involving Mark or having Mark make the decision because the fear of being wrong, the fear of making a mistake, the fear of was so overwhelming that those thoughts were looping a lot. And so I gave all of that pressure to Mark. So really tonight's episode is about Mark and it's about how he felt and about what he's been through. And the only way that I can describe it, and correct me if I'm wrong, babe, but that I put so much pressure on him to take care of our family, take care of me, take care of all the driving, and that includes driving the kids to all their appointments, driving me to all of my appointments, making sure that we all got to where we need to be, work, et cetera. Managing my schedule around all of that too, as I was trying to move up in leadership capacities within the district. throughout his day to allow me to check in, text message, phone calls, ⁓ in-person check-ins, everything. Managing that, allowing me to do that. and not knowing at the time that his reassurance was just feeding the beast that was my OCD. And that's a lot of what we've learned in the therapy process. One of the things that she would always ask me too is, I a good mom? Am I a good mom? mean, I don't know how many times I had to reassure her on the, you are, because here she is. It's the day and age where, oh, a stay at home mom is the best thing to be. You know and here's stacey having to work because I have a teacher salary and i'm paying for our medical insurance benefits out of my checks and my checks were puny at the time and and we were just barely getting by you know, and you know, that's you know 15 17 years ago now when we were doing that on love and peanut butter and jelly Yeah, a lot of peanut butter and jelly and cereal for dinner. Yeah, which is always still good. ⁓ know, but as we moved forward in in my career to having to balance her reassurance and making sure that everybody was good. That's all I felt like I was ever doing was making sure that everybody had everything that they needed and it didn't I tried to leave space for myself on the stuff that I needed but it was so sometimes overwhelming to make sure that everybody had what they needed, that I always pushed my stuff aside. I cannot tell you now, speaking from the perspective of having a clearer head and knowing what my OCD is and what it has done, to hear him say that. It's very heartbreaking for me. I want to make it up to him so badly. I can't give him back the time. And so we're just trying to move forward. but realizing that I feel like what he just said, he never had time for himself. He never had time to give himself grace or patience or give himself what he may have needed, just as in pure joy of things he liked to do. It took him a lot of years to get back to diving into one of his great passions, which is sailing, which we do here in Arizona. It's a thing. It's a pretty big thing. And he loves it. He's great at it. He's sharing that passion with our kids. They love it. And it took him too long to to reignite his passion for that because he spent too many years just holding down the fort and making sure that we were OK physically, mentally, emotionally. Every other way you can think. I mean, I've been part of the club since 2004 is pretty much since we got married and you know, when we got married, I had a small boat and I was racing that. And then when we had kids, I stepped away from doing that because I was too busy managing everything, kind of being a solo parent, but not, if that makes sense to anybody out there. You know, yes, you have your significant other, they're contributing to the family and they're doing what they can, but it's not to the level that it could have been. So I did take a step back from that. ⁓ You know, and it's funny, Stacey and I are recently watching a show on TV and, you know, a lot of it was about fly fishing. you know, and I used to do that when I was younger as well. That was one of the things that I tabled. And I stopped doing and I do realize that a lot of that probably was because of your OCD. the number one reason behind it was her driving. Because if I were to leave and go out for the weekend, it left her stranded, even sailing. If I were to go out on the water for the afternoon or the day, sometimes it would take up the full day, I would end up leaving her stranded. And that was a difficult feeling for me knowing that she was stranded. To hear him even say it and to say it in that way, it also breaks my heart because he's so kind in the fact that he would say it would leave her stranded because we only had the one vehicle. But truth be told, I was stranding myself. I was the one that didn't want to drive. My OCD precluded me from that. I was doing too much checking and other things, other intrusive thoughts were coming up when I was driving. I... pulled myself out of that activity altogether. And even if I had had my own vehicle, I would have stranded myself. ⁓ It was more so... But if you had your own vehicle and you weren't driving, I would feel comfortable to go somewhere. Perhaps, but also I wasn't driving. So if some emergency were to have happened or somebody needed to get somewhere, who was that going to be? That was always going to be always defaulted to you. No, you're right, because we've had a second car for several years now and you were not using it. I just started driving again six months ago, y'all. Six months. I'm 47 years old and I am for the first time ever in my life confident behind the wheel. I feel like a teenager when I'm out driving. It's exciting. It's fun. It's life-affirming. It's a win in the column of wins from my OCD. ⁓ I've taken a huge burden off of Mark now. I drive our daughter to dentist appointments, our son to medical appointments, et cetera. And it has allowed me to even be more of the mom that I've always wanted to be and the wife that I've always wanted to be. And I knew something was holding me back. And I'm grateful to know what it is now and how to work. with it, around it, and over it. So with that side of it now, it's like I take it, you know, I would like on Facebook and I would see my past friends, they would be out like fishing and that type of thing. And that was very difficult to see. ⁓ You know, and like knowing that that's something I really enjoyed when I was younger and I enjoyed sailing as well. And that's the one thing that I kept. doing because it wasn't a weekend trip. It was an afternoon, you know, for four hours, five hours, that type of thing. I knew I could get away with that versus like a weekend trip or, you know, even, hey, I'm getting up at, you know, four o'clock in the morning and driving, you know, to the fishing place and fish for, you know, till the afternoon and driving back in the evening. That would have would not have happened. Well, in goodness, I forbid I would have needed somebody to check in with. And I would have needed some reassurance on some minor thing that might have occurred throughout the day. And I would have just been interrupting you constantly. The pressure that I feel like he must have been under for years. I cannot tell you how grateful I am to this man sitting next to me for persevering through all of that. But it was not easy. I will tell you. tell you all it was it was not it was not easy to do that I remember a fishing trip that I took with with our son and your mom was here at the house and stuff but you know we're out in the middle of nowhere and I still had to check in I had to drive out of the canyon to get to a spot that we got cell service to check in with you to reassure you that we were okay. And that's when I kind of knew that that type of activity probably was not going to happen. I think that's the other part of it too, right? Is that everything in our life had to be worked around my OCD, my fears, my anxieties, my looping thoughts, my intrusive thoughts, all of it. and to think back now on all the years before kids, while our kids were little, now while they're teenagers. It's been such an interesting look back at how our life completely revolved around my OCD. And that's so painful to think about. My clear brain says that. My OCD brain didn't know how to do it differently and required everybody and everything to do everything the way that it needed it to be done. That's a lot of pressure on your spouse. And I do know that, ⁓ you know, that was all the way up until. And this is another part, a topic that we are not going to continue to beat with a dead horse or anything. You and I both want to move on from it, but it is the business. But that was three years. Yeah. Three years. More than three years, actually. was closer to four by the time we started the... the purchase agreement all the way through the last day that you walked out of the clinic. think that that three to four years was for you and I probably the most difficult. Oh, that was the clearly and absolute the worst three years of our marriage. So this is where, you know, when she says the worst part of our marriage, know, I have never really thought about walking away and getting a divorce or anything like that. you know, for those people that feel like they have no other option, you know, I truly am sorry, especially if you feel like you have found your soulmate or if you have kids involved or ⁓ anything like that, you know, I just, that breaks my heart whenever I... see people talking about that within the groups that I currently still participate in. And I just, don't ever respond to any of those groups. I just more just read to see what other people are dealing with. And I listen to other podcasts regarding OCD and people dealing with OCD and how they've overcome it. ⁓ And I do know that there is a possibility of overcoming it. You're an example of that. There's a lot of people that are examples of that, but those three years, especially when you took ownership in that very first day, that was like a bomb going off in your OCD brain. Now, the amount of checking in... that she had to do was so disruptive. It really was. my work life. And the amount of times I needed to feel like I had to people please in order to make someone else feel good or feel happy because ⁓ my goodness, what if they didn't? What would happen? What if, what if, what if? And those were constantly looping in my head and they really did interfere with my ability to run the business and therefore interfered with Mark's ability to do his job and then also helped me run the business. it just became- I wasn't necessarily helping her run the business because her OCD would not allow No, because my OCD was helping me run the business, y'all. It would not. wouldn't. Let's just say that didn't- that was a business partnership that did not work out very well. Yeah. It was a third silent partner, but it wasn't silent at all. It would not allow me to step in and help. ⁓ facilitate some of the stuff that was going on in the company itself. But so one of the things I want to tell you before she jumps in, because she wants to jump in and share more of her story here, because it's about her. Not me tonight. No, it's about Mark. Tonight's about Mark. But I want to share something about what it means to be the spouse of someone with OCD. But when you're sitting there in a meeting and your phone blows up and you get one phone call and you hit, sorry, I can't talk right now. Then it goes off again within 30 seconds and you hit it again, sorry, I can't talk right now. And then it goes off five or six more times. And then there's a text message that comes through and says, I need to talk to you ASAP. She put the level of urgency into those text messages sometimes so much that I had to step out of meetings to take those phone calls. Even when I'm sitting in with my boss and having to stand up and take the phone calls and all they were was, do you think I said the right thing? It was so disruptive of my day to day work. that it was taking a toll on my ability to do my job. And that was difficult. So when we started the ERP, that for me, and we're sitting there in therapy sessions and our therapist was saying, you don't get to answer the phone. Let it ring, let her sit in that discomfort. For somebody to give me that permission to do that. And for her to hear that I was allowed to do that was the best thing that could have happened to me when it came to her checking in. It was life changing at my work because I was forcing her the ERP to happen and let her anxiety rise up and for her to figure things out. But it was also allowing me to do my job. And even with the stuff that we have going on right now, I still have to... do that type of behavior. I still have to ignore those phone calls, let it go to voicemail, let the text come through, take and have it sit there for five, 10 minutes until I truly am free to take a phone call. ⁓ man, okay, all right. I mean, it happened all the way up even today. Okay, all right. That I did that. Well, I'm just saying. Totally, wow. until today. mean, this is part of the thing. ⁓ You know, and the other part that that the past three years where our marriage was was taking a hit was I wasn't allowed to give I was allowed to give advice or suggestions. But the little OCD brain is like that little devil sitting on her shoulder saying, don't listen to what he's saying. It's wrong. Do what you feel like you should be doing that feeds that compulsion. And I would give suggestions regarding employees regarding best practices that we should be doing changes that we needed to be making. But that OCD devil was sitting there and speaking so loud that her and I would have arguments over them. That's not something that we've actually tackled in our sessions at all, it's kind of resolved because of the people pleasing work that she did through the ERP. Well, this is kind of a nice segue to what I did want to say earlier, which was that I wanted to make a comment about, especially being the spouse of someone who has OCD, because that's what Mark and I know best. And it is true fact that when you marry someone who has OCD, as silly and as cliche as this might sound, you're marrying the OCD too. The OCD lives in the house with you. It exists alongside of your marriage and your family life, day in and day out. And so to not have had an awareness of that early on for us and to now know what we know, it's just been such an interesting ride. Without the intensive treatment, we wouldn't be where we are. ⁓ Without the business, I wouldn't have gotten the diagnosis and I wouldn't have gotten treatment. So it's hard not to feel too much regret about the business even though it's closed now and we don't have it any longer. ⁓ I imagine how frustrated Mark must have been all those years that we were in business as well, that my OCD was my partner, not him. And that's not the way that it was supposed to be. No, definitely not. We were supposed to do that together and we did not do it together. ⁓ I ended up being the repairman around the clinic that in the Costco runner. I was able to go to Costco, which You know, anybody that goes to Costco loves to do that. On a Wednesday afternoon, it's the most glorious thing you can do. But it's true. It's that that put again, not only had I been putting so much pressure on him to maintain our life for so many years, I forced his hand to work around my OCD time in and time again. And then I didn't even allow him the opportunity to be that business partner that he was supposed to be and the help and the support in that role that he was supposed to be for me because I allowed my OCD to take on that role instead. I mean, it's hard not to have regret for that. It's hard not to feel heartbroken. It's hard not to feel that guilt, that shame that comes with hearing what someone you love has been through because of it. I'm working through that too. Mark's working through that too, because certainly we are in a different space now. And so we want to move forward and we don't want to keep looking backwards. ⁓ We've definitely put the business side of things behind us. Yeah. And that's been really good. And I know as we move on through these episodes, I know I wanted to share my side of it and I knew that part was going to have to come up because it was a ⁓ crucial part of our time together ⁓ as far as your OCD and the point that it got to. I mean, to the point that I had to bring you to the hospital. Which that we kind of talked about our darkest moment in that first episode. That was the turning point in our life that day. I'm grateful for it. to be honest, it was probably the hardest day in my life. In mine as well. Just in my life, but that OCD was so right there. It took over everything. All of it at that point. So now that we're on the backside of it, just a couple of things that I want to share. Now that we're on the backside of it and that we've gone through this treatment, we accelerated that treatment, I think, quicker than if you were to do it yourself because we were doing it together. ⁓ I've now had to adjust to where I don't have to be the caretaker of everybody. So anybody that is out there that their significant other has gone through it and You know, you probably know what I'm talking about, that all of a sudden there's an open space in your life and it's kind of like a hole that you've had to fill and, you know, take and try to work through. And that's been a little bit more difficult for me in the past couple of months is where I'm not, not that I'm not needed. I absolutely am needed. I'm able to on my work. Just in a different way. a little bit, but when you're not needed in that way anymore, it's a little bit more difficult. the not Just a readjustment. Yeah, readjustment. The not fighting anymore has been so much better. Well, and as we mentioned in a previous episode too, our marriage is stronger than it's ever been now. And we feel excited about what the next chapter in our life is and putting the last chapter behind us. Yeah. And one last thing that I to share regarding her OCD and how it impacted me. So when it came time for making decisions, like bigger decisions, like buying a car or ⁓ different purchases in our life, she would always defer to me to make sure that I was happy. That was part of her OCD trait was you know, as people pleasing. And she did that with me. And so we bought a car. I'm like, OK, this car is going to be great for her and me. Well, she the only time she drove it was on the test drive. And. At that point, after that point, you know, after we finished, you know, with that car, I was like, well, fuck it. I'm just going to get the car that I want since she's not driving, you know, so I did. I got I got the car that I want because she wasn't. necessarily driving and but that did that you know those type of purchases or that type of stuff would cause friction between us later. ⁓ She would always say well you made that decision without me or I wish I would I would have said this I would have given this input later she would have given the input after it actually have had happened had gone through even like one of the sailboats that that I bought you know like. Well, you I said yes to it, but I really didn't feel like that was the best thing to do. You know, but that came after the actual purchase itself. And now that we're in a very different position, we're actually having better conversations about, you know, buying things or doing things without me making the decisions 100 % on my own. Because I have a more confident voice now, too. Yeah. That isn't being overridden by ⁓ intrusive thoughts and OCD. And that's ⁓ also been incredibly life altering and such a gift. And I'm thankful and grateful for it every day and ⁓ continue to be thankful and grateful for this guy right here who took this journey with me. And hopefully both of our lives are better for it and our family too. Yeah. And I just want to say that I'm Very grateful that Stacey decided to take the journey and go through the ERP treatment. It wasn't easy at all. ⁓ I saw a lot of tears. ⁓ A lot of work went into it. It was probably the hardest thing that she has ever done ⁓ outside of maybe taking a geography class. But the ERP treatment was probably the most Difficult thing that I've ever seen anybody go through and to tackle it like a boss for herself and for our family is Absolutely amazing. We are so much better on the other side Anybody that's out there and is listening and your significant other hasn't started that journey and you wish they would Have them listen have them listen to the the podcast to see you know, what? could actually be if you guys want to talk, send us an email. The link will be in the description just so that we can maybe help convince even if they haven't started it that there is hope on the other side. There's hope, there's joy, there's so much possibility on the other side. But it is hard. And we want to build this community. So yes, like Mark said, please reach out to us. and let us know your story and let's do all of this together. And it's just, it's about, you know, allowing people to heal. Absolutely. And that's kind of why we started this podcast is for people to heal and so that people can share their stories and you know, know that there is a better side than what OCD likes to take control of people's lives and I have listened to hundreds of podcasts with people dealing with OCD and it takes control of your life. And if you don't take control of it, your life will not be filled with joy and happiness. And I see that joy and happiness in Stacey now that she has taken that control. So I'm proud of you, babe. Thanks. So everybody, thank you for listening. Thank you for living Uncertain with us everybody, every day. Thanks so much.