Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / From the Vault - Catherine Eddowes - The Ripper's Fourth Victim

Transcript

From the Vault - Catherine Eddowes - The Ripper's Fourth Victim · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

0:00
Speaker 1: Hi, They're delicious friends, and welcome to Hooded. What Now
0:03
Speaker 1: from the Vault with me your host Katie Charlwood, History
0:08
Speaker 1: Harlotte and reader of books. If this is a random
0:12
Speaker 1: episode you've picked, it's a weird one to start in
0:15
Speaker 1: because it's the fourth in a series from the Vault,
0:18
Speaker 1: switzerpit Odd, I am unwell, as you can tell from
0:25
Speaker 1: the tone of my voice. I have caught a case
0:28
Speaker 1: of the sniffles, and so I'm not fit to cover
0:32
Speaker 1: the topic that I wanted to cover. And so with
0:35
Speaker 1: Jack the Eber being in the news again, I thought,
0:39
Speaker 1: why not re share this story because victims are so
0:44
Speaker 1: often left out of the story, especially when we discussed Jackthropper,
0:49
Speaker 1: because everyone is so focused on who this dude is
0:55
Speaker 1: and don't really care about the lives that he destroyed.
1:00
Speaker 1: So I hope you will. I don't want to say
1:05
Speaker 1: enjoy because enjoy sounds like such a terrible phrase, but
1:11
Speaker 1: I hope this is of benefit to you. The fourth
1:15
Speaker 1: canonical victim of Jack the Ripper Catherine Edows. And now
1:20
Speaker 1: some housekeeping. Thank you, Thank you, thank you to everyone
1:25
Speaker 1: who has been still rating and reviewing five stars on
1:30
Speaker 1: Spotify on Apple Podcasts, The purple one, like if you
1:35
Speaker 1: are on Apple podcasts, like when you do a review,
1:38
Speaker 1: if you write anything in the box, it just boosts
1:41
Speaker 1: you up somehow. I don't know how it works, but
1:45
Speaker 1: apparently that's the thing. And when that happens, I'm will
1:48
Speaker 1: likely to get sponsors and I'm willing to go up
1:50
Speaker 1: the charts, and it's really going to help me create
1:53
Speaker 1: more content. Now I could say it's not for my ego.
1:56
Speaker 1: I mean it's not, but it is a wee bit
1:58
Speaker 1: because I do love hearing nice things about me. Speaking
2:03
Speaker 1: of compliments, actually, I had this old video where I
2:06
Speaker 1: talk about lack of communication and relationships is how relationships die,
2:11
Speaker 1: and you can't be surprised when a girl checks out
2:15
Speaker 1: after being like disregarded, you know. Anyway, some dude comments
2:20
Speaker 1: on it with something along the lines of you're like
2:26
Speaker 1: a seven on the British Isles and then a two
2:29
Speaker 1: everywhere else in the world, so no wonder men stop
2:32
Speaker 1: talking to you, or something along those lines. So I
2:35
Speaker 1: make a video response where it's just really cute pictures
2:37
Speaker 1: of me and with like the line sword of Burster bubble,
2:41
Speaker 1: but I'm cured as fuck, and which was just it's
2:46
Speaker 1: just like a clap back to be like, mate, no,
2:49
Speaker 1: I'm adorable, you don't. You don't want to mess with me.
2:53
Speaker 1: And I got some hilarious responses like this girl goes
2:57
Speaker 1: all the way up to eleven, which you know, Benel
3:00
Speaker 1: tap And one of my favorites was you'd be a
3:03
Speaker 1: solid eight here in Australia and we have the Hemsworths,
3:07
Speaker 1: so we grade pretty hard. I was like, I'm framing that,
3:14
Speaker 1: or I'm going to embroider it onto a decorative pillow,
3:17
Speaker 1: like we have the Hemsworths. Wait, concrete, pretty hard hilarics.
3:22
Speaker 1: But I know what you're thinking. You're thinking what your
3:24
Speaker 1: jibber jabber in fact me, in fact you I will,
3:27
Speaker 1: But first we've got to get our source on. Sources
3:30
Speaker 1: are Anti Social Behavior in Britain by Sarah Picard, The
3:35
Speaker 1: Politics of Alcohol, A History of the drink Question in
3:38
Speaker 1: England by James Nichols. The Workhouse, a social History by
3:43
Speaker 1: Norman Longmatee. The Story of Japan tin plate working and
3:46
Speaker 1: bicycle and galvanizing trades in Wolverhampton by W. H. Jones, Slumming,
3:52
Speaker 1: Sexual and social politics in Victorian London by Seth Coven.
3:56
Speaker 1: Crime and Society in Wolverhampton eighteen fifteen to eighteen sixty
4:02
Speaker 1: by Roger Swift. The Victims of Jack the Ripper by
4:06
Speaker 1: Neil Stubbings Sheldon, Jack the Ripper, The Definitive Casebook by
4:11
Speaker 1: Richard Whittington. Egan Wayward Women, Female Offending in Victorian England
4:16
Speaker 1: by Lucy Williams, may My End a Warning Bee, Catherine
4:21
Speaker 1: Arrows and Gallow's Literature In the Black Country by Jarrett Kobeck,
4:25
Speaker 1: Wages in Cost of Living in the Victorian Era by
4:29
Speaker 1: George p Lando and James Skipper. Anything But Your Prayers,
4:35
Speaker 1: Victims and Witnesses on the Night of the Double Event
4:39
Speaker 1: by Antonio Serrone and Jane Corehum, The Five by Hallie Rubinhold,
4:45
Speaker 1: and of course her old friends Biography dot Com and
4:48
Speaker 1: History dot Com. Ioseiting comfortably good. Then let's begin. So
4:55
Speaker 1: Catherine Edrows. She's very, very interesting because she is so
5:01
Speaker 1: different to you know, the women we have met thus far.
5:07
Speaker 1: So at least with the other three canonical victims, they
5:13
Speaker 1: have been somewhat in line at some point with you know,
5:18
Speaker 1: the expected respectability of Victorian society. They have fallen in line,
5:25
Speaker 1: and then they've sort of deviated from that whereas Catherine
5:32
Speaker 1: never really seemed to be on the track anyway. She
5:36
Speaker 1: always seemed to be going a different course. In what
5:41
Speaker 1: really fascinating is her life and the way that she
5:44
Speaker 1: lived it. It shows a very very different scenario to again,
5:48
Speaker 1: what we've seen so far with these women, and that
5:51
Speaker 1: their life experiences in what they went through as humans
5:54
Speaker 1: is just astounding and not to be controversial, but I'm
6:02
Speaker 1: convinced that Catherine Arrows is actually the final victim of
6:07
Speaker 1: the serial killer known as Jack the Ripper, or at
6:10
Speaker 1: least the final victim in England. But more on that later.
6:16
Speaker 1: But let's not get ahead of ourselves. We should probably
6:19
Speaker 1: start at the beginning. Catherine Arrows was born on the
6:24
Speaker 1: fourteenth of April eighteen forty two in Graisley Green, Woverhampton,
6:30
Speaker 1: to George and Catherine Arrows and Catherine Edrows Junior. She
6:34
Speaker 1: didn't really lack for siblings because she's number six, okay,
6:38
Speaker 1: which isn't surprising because this is Victorian London, and contraception
6:42
Speaker 1: is created by Bielzibub himself, so you know, keep forcing
6:48
Speaker 1: women to go through, you know, terrible pregnancies and horrific childbirth,
6:52
Speaker 1: you know, which which was, you know, for centuries, one
6:56
Speaker 1: of the leading causes of death of women. But anyway,
7:01
Speaker 1: so George Rows, he's a tin plate worker. He is
7:04
Speaker 1: a fully skilled, trained, qualified He did the whole seven
7:08
Speaker 1: year apprenticeship. He was from a line of tin plate
7:11
Speaker 1: workers and this went into everything from like kettles to trays,
7:17
Speaker 1: to other things involving tin that I cannot recall off
7:21
Speaker 1: the top of my head at this moment. But yeah,
7:23
Speaker 1: so tin was very very important and George, George was
7:29
Speaker 1: a decent fellow because he believed in fair wages for
7:32
Speaker 1: fair work, and he was part of a union, a
7:36
Speaker 1: union letter strike and well, needless to say, the tin
7:41
Speaker 1: bosses and his way Tin Crown really wasn't too happy
7:46
Speaker 1: with the whole striking scenario and decided to ensure that
7:50
Speaker 1: George was punished. So he ends up being well one
7:57
Speaker 1: sent to jail to do like hard labor for several months.
8:02
Speaker 1: I think it's several months. I'm fairly certain it's several months.
8:06
Speaker 1: But anyway, that and he gets blackballed in Wolverhampton. So
8:13
Speaker 1: he even though it is a very incredibly skilled tin
8:17
Speaker 1: plate worker, he can't get a job in his area.
8:21
Speaker 1: So him, the wife and the six kids get on
8:25
Speaker 1: a boat and sail down too London, far enough away
8:28
Speaker 1: that the reaches of you know, the tin plate king
8:31
Speaker 1: ain't going to get him. And also in an area
8:34
Speaker 1: where him being so highly skilled is going to be
8:38
Speaker 1: a great benefit because he's a skilled laborer, you know,
8:42
Speaker 1: he'll make more money. Unfortunately, because of the family size,
8:49
Speaker 1: it's going to be a little bit less so. And
8:54
Speaker 1: so at this point Catherine is only less than two
8:58
Speaker 1: years old, and so London is basically going to be
9:02
Speaker 1: the home that she knows her older siblings are going
9:04
Speaker 1: to remember Wolverhampton. She is not so because their family
9:12
Speaker 1: keeps growing until the point of well, her mum gives
9:17
Speaker 1: birth to twelve kids in total, but only ten of
9:20
Speaker 1: those children survive, which, being the Victorian era, pretty good odds. Actually,
9:27
Speaker 1: that's doing pretty well. But so there's ten kids, and
9:33
Speaker 1: yet George is this highly skilled ten plate worker. He's
9:39
Speaker 1: earning a really decent wage. Unfortunately, because there were so
9:45
Speaker 1: many mouths to feed, that wage is spread very very thin,
9:51
Speaker 1: very thin, meaning that by the time kid number ten
9:55
Speaker 1: is on the scene, many of the family are going
9:58
Speaker 1: to be quite aware of what it's like to go
10:01
Speaker 1: to sleep with a less than filled stomach. Now, we
10:04
Speaker 1: chatted about Victorian society before, and a lot of the
10:07
Speaker 1: times older children would be expected to help take care
10:10
Speaker 1: of the younger children, especially in a larger family. Now
10:16
Speaker 1: by the time Catherine is sixth though, she would have
10:20
Speaker 1: had like basic household chores, you know, because childhood itself
10:25
Speaker 1: was a very it's a very vague and short thing,
10:29
Speaker 1: especially for working class children in you know, the Victorian era,
10:34
Speaker 1: and so something there must have been something special in
10:40
Speaker 1: her because she gets sent to this school, the Dowgate School,
10:45
Speaker 1: which is basically exists to try and give children sort
10:50
Speaker 1: of a helping hand out of poverty and of course
10:54
Speaker 1: mold and create the right kind of working class person,
10:58
Speaker 1: to instill morals in them and to keep them away
11:01
Speaker 1: from the vices of you know, the street or home
11:05
Speaker 1: or whatever they think is going on there. But also
11:08
Speaker 1: to try and you know, get these people into positions
11:12
Speaker 1: like clerks and banks, engineering, architect services, oh, you know,
11:20
Speaker 1: the kind of stuff for boys, but for girls it's
11:23
Speaker 1: kind of domestic service. There's lots and lots of domestic service.
11:30
Speaker 1: Nothing really that great. But it did mean that she
11:32
Speaker 1: could read and write, and for whatever reason, George and Catherine.
11:39
Speaker 1: They picked little Katherine. Now, it could have been that
11:42
Speaker 1: she was the right age to start and it was
11:44
Speaker 1: just lucky, or it could have been there was just
11:47
Speaker 1: something special about her maybe, or she was really annoying
11:51
Speaker 1: and they wanted her out the house. I don't know.
11:54
Speaker 1: There are reason parents push kids into things, it's all
11:56
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Or she was perceived as annoying for them.
12:02
Speaker 1: But anyway, she goes to the school, things are going
12:05
Speaker 1: all right because there's no information of her like acting
12:11
Speaker 1: out or being away horse or doing incredibly well. So
12:17
Speaker 1: maybe she was just average and that's all right, you know.
12:21
Speaker 1: But when she's there, she learns to read and write,
12:23
Speaker 1: and she learns music because music is food for the soul,
12:28
Speaker 1: and they probably thought it was good for them spiritually
12:31
Speaker 1: or something probably, But she learns to sing and she
12:36
Speaker 1: learns music and like O Also, I don't think she's
12:40
Speaker 1: a we arse because so far everyone describes her as
12:44
Speaker 1: kind of like happy and jolly and just kind of
12:48
Speaker 1: just kind of nice. Now, things are going all right,
12:52
Speaker 1: at the very least, they are doing all right for Catherine.
12:58
Speaker 1: But in eighteen fifty five, when she's thirteen years old,
13:02
Speaker 1: her forty two year old mother dies from consumption or
13:08
Speaker 1: as we'd know it, tuberculosis, the same thing that Annie
13:12
Speaker 1: Chapman's mother died from, cause, you know, was making the rounds,
13:18
Speaker 1: leaving George to support and raise the rest of his family,
13:22
Speaker 1: or at least you know, the ones that haven't left
13:25
Speaker 1: and got married. So Emma, the eldest sister, she'd come
13:28
Speaker 1: back to nurse the mother for a while and to
13:31
Speaker 1: try and take care of the household. But this didn't
13:35
Speaker 1: last too long because two years after this, George also dies,
13:42
Speaker 1: but not before walking his daughter Elizabeth, who I think
13:45
Speaker 1: is the second oldest up the aisle, so there was
13:48
Speaker 1: some niceness there. He was helped so that he could
13:52
Speaker 1: do the walk, but in eighteen fifty seven he dies.
13:57
Speaker 1: Emma has to go into full time employment or ill
14:00
Speaker 1: she's not going to survive. Her sister Elizabeth has married.
14:06
Speaker 1: Then there's Harriet had settled down as well, so they're
14:13
Speaker 1: all kind assorted. Their brother, Alfred, he was twenty three,
14:18
Speaker 1: but he had some additional needs and he was also epileptic,
14:23
Speaker 1: so taking care of him was one of their priorities,
14:27
Speaker 1: as was what to do with Catherine, who was fifteen
14:31
Speaker 1: at this point and they realized they can't take her in,
14:36
Speaker 1: or the rest of the children for that matter. So
14:38
Speaker 1: what they do is they send Catherine up to Wolverhampton
14:43
Speaker 1: to live with an aunt and uncle. So she goes
14:46
Speaker 1: up to Wolverhampton. The older siblings are all settling down
14:51
Speaker 1: or getting to work. Alfred and the four young and
14:57
Speaker 1: the youngins well, they get sent to the workhouse. So Thomas, George, Sarah,
15:02
Speaker 1: Ann and Mary. Not that long after their father's you know, death,
15:09
Speaker 1: they get sent to the workhouse and Catherine leaves everything
15:15
Speaker 1: she's ever known and heads up to Wolverhampton in family
15:19
Speaker 1: that she doesn't actually know. So yeah, she ends up
15:23
Speaker 1: in Wolverhampton. They send her on a train. At least
15:25
Speaker 1: she didn't have to do the boat, so took her
15:28
Speaker 1: less time to get there. So she gets there and
15:32
Speaker 1: you know, she's lost both her parents, you know, her
15:35
Speaker 1: family are all either settling down or being chucked into
15:39
Speaker 1: a workhouse. Just super fucking fun. But of course, losing
15:43
Speaker 1: all of your family and being ripped to a place
15:46
Speaker 1: that you don't even know is no excuse for you
15:49
Speaker 1: not to be you know, paying your own way and
15:53
Speaker 1: having a job. So yeah, she gets sent out to
15:56
Speaker 1: you know, the tinplate factories and gets a job. It's
15:59
Speaker 1: a scour and she's you know, all day, like seven
16:03
Speaker 1: am to seven pm. You know. When she's not there,
16:06
Speaker 1: she's expected to do domestic duties at home, but the
16:10
Speaker 1: tin workers pub is just a week a couple of
16:13
Speaker 1: doors down, so she usually kind of tries to spend
16:18
Speaker 1: as much time there instead of at home because then
16:21
Speaker 1: there's likes shit for her to do. And for whatever reason,
16:24
Speaker 1: one day, when she's working in the tin factory, she
16:30
Speaker 1: decides it's going to be a super great idea to
16:32
Speaker 1: try and next some stuff. Had she done it before?
16:36
Speaker 1: How was this the first time? You know? Was this
16:38
Speaker 1: just the first time she was caught? Hymns to say.
16:42
Speaker 1: All we know is that she gets caught and she
16:45
Speaker 1: gets fired, which is probably for the best, because the
16:50
Speaker 1: other option was to be brought before the magistrate. So
16:54
Speaker 1: it was either going to be go to court or
16:57
Speaker 1: just be dismissed from her position. And see her aunt
17:00
Speaker 1: and uncle, they are good, upstanding members of the public
17:05
Speaker 1: and so they are absolutely pissed at this, and so
17:09
Speaker 1: they make sure that she doesn't forget the fact that
17:12
Speaker 1: she stole, which is a sin, and having to deal
17:17
Speaker 1: with this you know, strict home and this beratment she's getting.
17:22
Speaker 1: She decides at nineteen fuck this for a game of soldiers,
17:26
Speaker 1: packs up her stuff and bumpers off to another uncle's house.
17:32
Speaker 1: So it's something like fourteen miles south of Overhampton. Birmingham
17:36
Speaker 1: is only fourteen miles south. Yeah, no, I suck at geography.
17:42
Speaker 1: And she goes to stay with her uncle Tom Arrows,
17:45
Speaker 1: who by day was a shoemaker and by night was
17:49
Speaker 1: a bare knuckle boxer. So there she stays with her
17:53
Speaker 1: uncle Tom and aunt Rosanna, and she needs to get
17:56
Speaker 1: a job. Luckily, he's relatively well known, he knows a
18:00
Speaker 1: few people. He can get her gig, and it does.
18:04
Speaker 1: She's not a scour anymore though, she's a polisher, polish
18:07
Speaker 1: in fancy trays, which does seem a lot better than
18:11
Speaker 1: you know, standing over acid baths. So this lasts for
18:15
Speaker 1: four months and she buckers off back to Overhampton again,
18:19
Speaker 1: but to stay with her granny. And she does this
18:22
Speaker 1: and becomes a template stamper, so like just constantly in
18:27
Speaker 1: the tin, cannot escape the tin. So somewhere during this,
18:32
Speaker 1: whether it was in Birmingham or Wolverhampton, she meets Thomas Conway.
18:38
Speaker 1: So Conway was originally from Mayo. He was in the
18:42
Speaker 1: Army County Mail in Ireland, i should say, and he
18:45
Speaker 1: was in like the eighteenth Regiment, Irish Regiment of the
18:47
Speaker 1: British Army or something like that. He was in the army.
18:52
Speaker 1: He had like a bad heart and a weak chest,
18:56
Speaker 1: and he caught some kind of thing in India, and
19:00
Speaker 1: that's what happens when you colonize places. You get diseases
19:04
Speaker 1: that you just can't handle. So don't do that, yees.
19:08
Speaker 1: So he is medically in fit to rejoin the army,
19:14
Speaker 1: and he's got an army pension, and he's also a chapman,
19:19
Speaker 1: so he sells well chat books, which are like he's
19:24
Speaker 1: printed books of like ballads and poems and all this stuff.
19:28
Speaker 1: And also he would sell like ribbons and thimbles and
19:32
Speaker 1: you know, just like sell stuff and tell stories really,
19:35
Speaker 1: you know. And so by eighteen sixty two, her family
19:40
Speaker 1: they don't like Conway. They don't think he's good for
19:44
Speaker 1: her in any way. They think he's a bit of
19:46
Speaker 1: a cad and he's Irish as well, so that's obviously
19:48
Speaker 1: an issue for them. They're not gonna say it, but
19:51
Speaker 1: he is. And they're like, he can't support you. He's
19:55
Speaker 1: only got like a seven pence like pension. Oh, and
20:02
Speaker 1: they're like, it's him or us, and Kate goes, oh
20:06
Speaker 1: my color, Kate. Now Catherine goes him, and so she
20:11
Speaker 1: moves into a lodging house with him, and next thing
20:14
Speaker 1: you know, she's pregnant. And so this couple, they don't
20:19
Speaker 1: really stay long in Woverhampton, right, because he's a chapman.
20:23
Speaker 1: He's out selling his chat books and selling all this stuff,
20:26
Speaker 1: so it's up to him to roam the English countryside
20:30
Speaker 1: to find places to sell his wares. And Catherine, she thinks,
20:36
Speaker 1: this is a much better way of life than I'm
20:39
Speaker 1: currently living. Like it's totally against you know, the norms.
20:45
Speaker 1: They're not married, they don't get married. You know, they're
20:48
Speaker 1: having a kid. And instead of facing the drudgery of
20:55
Speaker 1: factory work, of being in these blackened cities, in being
21:00
Speaker 1: constrained and being ruled over, there would have been a
21:06
Speaker 1: real sense of freedom in this, a real opportunity for her,
21:11
Speaker 1: something for her to do and live and to fucking
21:15
Speaker 1: enjoy her life. And so off they go, and she's
21:19
Speaker 1: really handy to have because she can sing. Remember, she
21:23
Speaker 1: can write her own ballads, and he's illiterate, but she isn't,
21:29
Speaker 1: so she can write tales, she can press stories. You know,
21:35
Speaker 1: she would go and sing on town squares and they
21:39
Speaker 1: would make this. They were really good team, really, because
21:43
Speaker 1: he was charming and he's this Irish lilt and he's
21:48
Speaker 1: clearly a good salesman because he would not be alive
21:50
Speaker 1: if that was the case. You know, you can't, you
21:54
Speaker 1: wouldn't have lasted that long. And she's just boosting business.
21:59
Speaker 1: And it's not like great money, it's not super money,
22:03
Speaker 1: but it's enough to live on. And again it gives
22:08
Speaker 1: her the freedom that she was missing. But of course
22:12
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three yearrolls around. They've been doing this for
22:17
Speaker 1: nearly a year, and she's presenting herself at the Great
22:23
Speaker 1: Yarmouth workhouse, like at the infirmary doors. So for working
22:27
Speaker 1: class women, a lot of them, especially those who weren't
22:31
Speaker 1: who did not have a fixed abode, they would normally
22:33
Speaker 1: go to workhouses to give birth. However, her treatment there
22:38
Speaker 1: would depend on how she was viewed. So when she
22:42
Speaker 1: gets there, she tells them her name is Catherine Conway.
22:46
Speaker 1: You know she's married and Conway. She's not. She's not
22:52
Speaker 1: married to Conway at all, not even a wee bit.
22:54
Speaker 1: But she says she's married, and they're like, Okay, that
22:57
Speaker 1: seems good enough. You seem respectable enough. You can have
23:00
Speaker 1: your baby here. Even though there's no wedding ring on her.
23:04
Speaker 1: You know, they can always make the excuse of perhaps,
23:08
Speaker 1: you know, or we had to sell it because we
23:10
Speaker 1: were hungry or whatever. And her daughter Annie is born.
23:15
Speaker 1: So oh, one thing I should say about Catherine Ettows
23:19
Speaker 1: is she has a tattoo. Now. Having a tattoo now,
23:24
Speaker 1: even for some woman who's seen sort of outrageous. But
23:29
Speaker 1: back in the Victorian era, like it was not a
23:33
Speaker 1: done thing. Women didn't get tattoos unless you were like
23:36
Speaker 1: in a side show. You know. Men got tattoos to
23:39
Speaker 1: show their manliness, to show the lives they lived, like
23:42
Speaker 1: if they were sailors and shit. But women did not
23:45
Speaker 1: get tattoos. But she had a tea and a sea
23:51
Speaker 1: tattooed on her arm. So she had a little Thomas
23:55
Speaker 1: Conway tattoo, which was like their way of being, you know,
24:01
Speaker 1: conducted as opposed to like a wedding band. But again
24:04
Speaker 1: not actually married. They're just cohabitating and again very frowned
24:09
Speaker 1: upon in Victorian society. But yes, So the thing is
24:14
Speaker 1: they would have acted as if they were husband and wife.
24:17
Speaker 1: They would have just told people their were husband and wife,
24:19
Speaker 1: you know, they would act like they were married. So
24:22
Speaker 1: little Annie is born and they don't stop their nomadic ways.
24:27
Speaker 1: They continue with this. So they do this for what
24:31
Speaker 1: another year or so until they finally end up back
24:35
Speaker 1: in London. So they have a couple more kids, and
24:38
Speaker 1: they've settled in London because they've got to settled somewhere
24:42
Speaker 1: because you cannot travel with that many children. Not then anyway,
24:46
Speaker 1: and this leads to some issues because he's a chapman.
24:52
Speaker 1: You know, he has really really stiff competition in London,
24:57
Speaker 1: like it's not the same as it was, and it's
25:01
Speaker 1: just really tough for him, although he is consistently working
25:07
Speaker 1: or begging, you know, and that's something they're doing. They're
25:10
Speaker 1: either begging or they're singing, or they're trying to sell
25:14
Speaker 1: their tiny wares, like there's always something going on. They're
25:16
Speaker 1: always trying to make money. And you see herself again,
25:24
Speaker 1: like the majority of women that we've discussed so far,
25:28
Speaker 1: fond of gin. Who isn't fond of gin. They used
25:32
Speaker 1: to sell it by the fucking pint. By the pint.
25:36
Speaker 1: Imagine drinking a pint of gin that just feels dangerous
25:41
Speaker 1: by any stretch of the imagination. Ah, were you drinking
25:44
Speaker 1: a pint of gin? A pint of gin? Oh yeah,
25:47
Speaker 1: that's that's super cooty. You just keep doing that. But
25:51
Speaker 1: so she would drink and well, how do I put this?
25:56
Speaker 1: He would beat her, and it was expected that this
26:03
Speaker 1: was her fault. You know, she clearly needed to be
26:08
Speaker 1: you know, disciplined or trained or all the other bullshit
26:12
Speaker 1: they used to label like, no, no, she did not
26:16
Speaker 1: deserve to get beaten. She didn't deserve to get hit like.
26:20
Speaker 1: She actually reported him, you know, for beating her, but
26:27
Speaker 1: that didn't last. And it was just kind of expected
26:32
Speaker 1: for her to go home and they're trying to make
26:36
Speaker 1: ends meet, but it's not quite working because they are struggling.
26:42
Speaker 1: They're really struggling. They don't have enough money, they can't
26:47
Speaker 1: support themselves, they can't support their children, and her youngest
26:53
Speaker 1: dies of malnutrition because they can't afford to feed themselves,
27:00
Speaker 1: let alone her. And by the end of this year,
27:05
Speaker 1: Thomas Conway he decides to set off again to continue
27:09
Speaker 1: the nomadic lifestyle to earn some money, meaning he's left
27:14
Speaker 1: his wife and kids just alone in London with no
27:18
Speaker 1: way to support themselves. And so she has to go
27:22
Speaker 1: stay with her sister Elizabeth for a while, and it
27:24
Speaker 1: is only for a while because you know, on top
27:28
Speaker 1: of everything else, her family they didn't really like Thomas Conway.
27:33
Speaker 1: They also didn't like the fact that, you know, she
27:35
Speaker 1: had tattoos and she wasn't married, and she was living
27:38
Speaker 1: a life which was just, i want to say, subversive
27:42
Speaker 1: to the Victorian norm. But they tried, but eventually things
27:48
Speaker 1: just stept working out and she has to go to
27:50
Speaker 1: the workhouse, bringing her seven year old daughter and two
27:56
Speaker 1: year old son, the three of them at the Green
28:00
Speaker 1: Union workhouse, and this becomes very much a pattern for her.
28:06
Speaker 1: So she ends up having to go in the workhouse,
28:09
Speaker 1: you know, quite a lot, because she needs to survive
28:12
Speaker 1: and her children need to survive, and generally she's in
28:16
Speaker 1: there with at least one of her kids, you know,
28:20
Speaker 1: and she even ends up giving birth again in the workhouse.
28:24
Speaker 1: And by eighteen seventy six, when she's been on the
28:27
Speaker 1: swings and roundabouts of the workhouse regime. She is going
28:32
Speaker 1: to give birth to her fourth child. Now at this point,
28:36
Speaker 1: her youngest is three, and he gets to stay with
28:41
Speaker 1: her in her part of the workhouse, but kids over
28:44
Speaker 1: seven they have to be taken to a separate part
28:47
Speaker 1: of the workhouse to be like schooled and stuff. So
28:50
Speaker 1: Annie's thirteen, George I think is seven at that point,
28:55
Speaker 1: maybe he's eight, But anyway, they get taken away from
28:58
Speaker 1: their mother and they have to go. But at least
29:00
Speaker 1: they're getting, you know something, They're getting an education, and
29:04
Speaker 1: they're getting some food, which is nice. So the reason
29:09
Speaker 1: that she has to keep coming to the workhouse anyway
29:11
Speaker 1: is because she's not eligible for parish funds, Like they
29:17
Speaker 1: don't give support to what they called fallen women, you know,
29:21
Speaker 1: because they were the unworthy poor, you know what I mean.
29:24
Speaker 1: She's seen basically the same as a sex worker because
29:30
Speaker 1: she's unwed, she has children, which is clearly her fault,
29:37
Speaker 1: you know, clearly. But yeah, she's in and out of
29:41
Speaker 1: the workhouse, and yeah, the older kids are taken away,
29:46
Speaker 1: but they do get to have this little like chat
29:50
Speaker 1: once a week, like they get to have visiting hours effectively,
29:56
Speaker 1: and they get to speak to their children, which I
29:58
Speaker 1: mean is I'm gonna say, is something that's something? Right,
30:03
Speaker 1: that's something. And Conway, he was going sort of in
30:06
Speaker 1: and out of their lives because he would leave, he
30:10
Speaker 1: would do his work, he'd do his Chapman stuff, and
30:13
Speaker 1: then he'd come back, and so he would be back
30:15
Speaker 1: and forth. But he wasn't, you know, stable, There wasn't
30:19
Speaker 1: a stable income, and he was working to provide for himself,
30:24
Speaker 1: not necessarily his family. So she ends up in and
30:28
Speaker 1: out of like the workhouse like like seven times in total.
30:32
Speaker 1: Like she's just there so much, and it gets to
30:36
Speaker 1: the point where when he does come back, he just
30:40
Speaker 1: can't handle her. And so he's violent and she's drinking.
30:47
Speaker 1: But is she drinking because he's violent, or is she drinking,
30:53
Speaker 1: you know, to escape everything that's going on in her life,
30:58
Speaker 1: like having to consistently go to the workhouse and they
31:02
Speaker 1: interview when you go in. And these are designed to
31:06
Speaker 1: make you feel bad about yourself. They're designed to bring
31:09
Speaker 1: you down and break your spirit. I think I think
31:12
Speaker 1: we discussed this in the first episode. And they are
31:17
Speaker 1: designed to crush you and to layer the guilt upon you,
31:24
Speaker 1: just smother you in it. And so she's had a
31:27
Speaker 1: hard time, and the man that is supposed to be
31:32
Speaker 1: caring for her and supporting her, as is the way
31:35
Speaker 1: of the era, is physically assaulting her. And after one
31:42
Speaker 1: particularly nasty fight. I say fight as if you know
31:47
Speaker 1: it was a two way thing. But after an incident,
31:50
Speaker 1: I suppose she takes nine months old Thomas Frederick Frederick
31:56
Speaker 1: and she goes to a casual ward with him. She
31:59
Speaker 1: stays over, she just does that, and then she goes
32:03
Speaker 1: and spends some time with her sisters, like she spends
32:05
Speaker 1: time for Christmas, and they are like shocked because like
32:11
Speaker 1: she's got two black eyes, Like she's clearly been like pubbled,
32:18
Speaker 1: you know, and like most women are, most people who
32:22
Speaker 1: are in domestic abuse relationships, they revolving doors, you know,
32:29
Speaker 1: they end up going back and sometimes because there's nowhere
32:33
Speaker 1: else because the other options are just horrific, like and
32:39
Speaker 1: there's there's so many layers to it that I'm not
32:42
Speaker 1: going to get into it because I don't want to
32:44
Speaker 1: open up some channels in my head and start crying,
32:46
Speaker 1: because let's not do that. But eventually, after again being
32:51
Speaker 1: in and out of the workhouse again in eighteen seventy nine,
32:56
Speaker 1: Frederick passes away, so she has lost her youngest son.
33:02
Speaker 1: And at some point during this year she also like
33:06
Speaker 1: takes both of her boys out singing with her and
33:09
Speaker 1: then she makes them deserted in the street where a
33:12
Speaker 1: policeman then takes them to the workhouse until and either
33:16
Speaker 1: oldest sister comes and collects them. By eighteen eighty one,
33:20
Speaker 1: she finally finally leaves Conway like properly done. And when
33:26
Speaker 1: she is finally done, she leaves him and her two
33:30
Speaker 1: youngest children because well, he had all the rights to
33:34
Speaker 1: them anyway, married or not. He had control, he had power.
33:40
Speaker 1: She didn't. And so she finally goes and for the
33:46
Speaker 1: most part she would stay on Flower Indian Street. She
33:50
Speaker 1: would stay in the you know, the doss house is
33:52
Speaker 1: the common lodging houses, and she would get by bit
33:56
Speaker 1: of work, but of singing, cleaning, sewing. She got work
34:00
Speaker 1: with Jewish families in the area because Whitechapel at this
34:05
Speaker 1: time was an area of mass immigration, which is why
34:10
Speaker 1: a lot of the Ripper theories we get are they're
34:14
Speaker 1: either entrenched in like misogyny or well anti semitism, Like
34:21
Speaker 1: there is so much just nonsense that just spews from hate,
34:26
Speaker 1: and that's why we have all of these preconceived notions.
34:31
Speaker 1: It's why the concept of Jack came about. It's why
34:36
Speaker 1: he went from leather apron to Jack Leerber. But that's
34:39
Speaker 1: another argument for another day. So by the time she
34:43
Speaker 1: leaves Conway, she's generally in a lodging house, generally flowering
34:51
Speaker 1: Dane Street, because you know, it's the most affordable for her.
34:56
Speaker 1: So she ends up like a year after leaving Conway,
34:59
Speaker 1: she ends up in this relationship. But this dude, John Kelly,
35:03
Speaker 1: and John well, he's he like her, is also a drinker.
35:11
Speaker 1: But are they drinking to numb the pen to escape
35:16
Speaker 1: to chase some you know fun him's to say. But yes,
35:23
Speaker 1: she is seeing John Kelly and the relationship seems to
35:27
Speaker 1: be kind of I don't know how symbiotic. Is it
35:33
Speaker 1: the word I'm looking for, it's codependent. You know, they're
35:37
Speaker 1: both relying on each other for survival. And we're gonna
35:42
Speaker 1: say it to Victoria in London. We've discussed this before,
35:44
Speaker 1: like she really needs protection as a woman. In the
35:48
Speaker 1: best form of protection for her is to be in
35:50
Speaker 1: a relationship with a man. And if she is sharing,
35:54
Speaker 1: you know, a bed with him in a lodging house,
35:58
Speaker 1: it will keep other men away from her. It's a
36:02
Speaker 1: safety blanket. You know how the romance came about, Well,
36:06
Speaker 1: they met in the lodging house and Flower and Dean Street.
36:10
Speaker 1: They met each other there, they gone along and things
36:14
Speaker 1: just seemed to work out for both of them. Unfortunately,
36:18
Speaker 1: as much as her family weren't keen on Conway, they
36:22
Speaker 1: disliked John Kelly even more because he was. He was
36:28
Speaker 1: an aberration for Victorian London. You know, I mean he
36:31
Speaker 1: was a drinker, he didn't have a full time job,
36:35
Speaker 1: and he wasn't a grafter really, not like Komae was.
36:37
Speaker 1: Commie was consistently working, but Kelly less so. And it's
36:45
Speaker 1: after they meet that she ends up being taken before
36:48
Speaker 1: the Magistrates Court for being drunken disorderly. Now it's reported
36:54
Speaker 1: that she never really drank that much. She didn't generally
36:57
Speaker 1: drink to excess. You know, she wasn't often overfilling her cup.
37:01
Speaker 1: But sometimes sometimes a bit too much gin Gina make
37:09
Speaker 1: makes things less than pleasant for everybody involved. Now, on
37:14
Speaker 1: top of this, right, she's also known for being kind,
37:19
Speaker 1: considerate and compassionate. So if she knew somebody who was
37:24
Speaker 1: like a regular at the lodging house and they didn't
37:27
Speaker 1: have the fourpence or whatever to you know, pay for
37:30
Speaker 1: their bed. She would give if she had the spare money,
37:34
Speaker 1: she would give them money to cover the bed for them.
37:39
Speaker 1: And she did this more than once. Like eventually she
37:43
Speaker 1: does get a job working sort of in the Jewish community.
37:48
Speaker 1: She's cleaning, she's sewing, she's doing all that kind of
37:51
Speaker 1: stuff and she's getting by. But something her and Kelly
37:55
Speaker 1: also do is seasonal hop picking in Kent. So basically
38:02
Speaker 1: hops needed picked for like beer and the like. So
38:06
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, seasonal workers, they would hit
38:08
Speaker 1: out every season or every year to go and pick
38:12
Speaker 1: the hops that would then be used for beer and
38:17
Speaker 1: bread and all that jazz and generally these summers were,
38:21
Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, fruitful. So it was
38:24
Speaker 1: a decent way for them to earn their cape. Really,
38:27
Speaker 1: and that's fair enough. Like you go where the work is,
38:30
Speaker 1: you get it, and you do your best to earn
38:32
Speaker 1: money so that you can survive, like for the rest
38:35
Speaker 1: of the year. You know, on the scraps you're going
38:37
Speaker 1: to get. So they spend their summers in Kent hop
38:42
Speaker 1: picking and then when they're back in London, again, she's sewing, cleaning,
38:48
Speaker 1: selling songs, begging because you know, you do what you
38:53
Speaker 1: have to do. And she's no stranger to sleeping rough
38:57
Speaker 1: either's want to sleep in a place called the shed
39:03
Speaker 1: where it's basically just kind of this wea front room situation.
39:09
Speaker 1: But she's sleeping on you know, alleyways and in sort
39:14
Speaker 1: of nooks and crannies. And she does go to her
39:19
Speaker 1: sister trying to get money, you know, to find somewhere
39:23
Speaker 1: to stay when because she does go through a lot
39:26
Speaker 1: of it. It's not hard when you don't have a
39:30
Speaker 1: steady income to go through money. So she's there, she's
39:36
Speaker 1: with Kelly. They go to their last hop picking summer
39:40
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty eight, and they come back and he
39:45
Speaker 1: ends up staying in Florendine Street and she ends up
39:48
Speaker 1: staying in the casual ward down on My Lend. And
39:53
Speaker 1: when she stays there, you know, she's telling everyone her
39:55
Speaker 1: name is o Kay Kelly. So she's gone from Catherine
40:02
Speaker 1: Conway to Kate Kelly and change is good, I guess.
40:09
Speaker 1: But when she's there, she's explaining, you know, you know,
40:13
Speaker 1: why where where was she? Because you know, they ask
40:15
Speaker 1: these kind of questions and she's like, oh, well, I
40:17
Speaker 1: was hot picking, so I was working and now I
40:19
Speaker 1: returned to London and so I need someone to stay
40:23
Speaker 1: fair enough. So he stays there and she stays in
40:28
Speaker 1: the casual ward for another night. So it's not too
40:32
Speaker 1: long that she's returned from hot picking from Kent and
40:39
Speaker 1: they're down to their last toppends really and they don't
40:44
Speaker 1: have enough to stay anywhere. So John Kelly pawns his
40:48
Speaker 1: boots so he is barefoot so that he can sleep
40:52
Speaker 1: in the lodging house. And Catherine she heads off to
40:57
Speaker 1: see her daughter. That's her that's her plan. She's heading
40:59
Speaker 1: the way to see her daughter, who's like fully grown,
41:02
Speaker 1: says Annie, you know, seeing if she can, you know,
41:05
Speaker 1: grab a couple pennies off her. And she's supposed to
41:09
Speaker 1: be back by like two o'clock, four o'clock sometime in
41:13
Speaker 1: the afternoon. He's expecting her back because she's like, I'm
41:15
Speaker 1: gonna go get some money and I'll be back, because
41:18
Speaker 1: he's just covered the cost of the room, so she's
41:21
Speaker 1: expecting to be back. And about four o'clock that day,
41:26
Speaker 1: Catherine Arrows is found slumped against a wall, absolutely sloshed.
41:33
Speaker 1: The woman is pie eyed. She's drunk. She's absolutely just
41:41
Speaker 1: gin fueled at this point. If you struck a match
41:44
Speaker 1: next door, it would be like the beacon of gone
41:46
Speaker 1: Doll went up right, And she's just not great. People
41:51
Speaker 1: are trying to like help her up. They're worried about
41:54
Speaker 1: her because she's an absolute steak. Whatever happened that day
42:00
Speaker 1: that drove her to drink that much, like to get
42:05
Speaker 1: that drunk, like to go get the money, because she
42:09
Speaker 1: must have got the money, and then to get that hammered,
42:14
Speaker 1: like something must have happened, because there's no way someone
42:17
Speaker 1: suddenly decides to drink themselves into a stupid especially not
42:21
Speaker 1: someone who's used to drinking, you know, and doesn't really
42:26
Speaker 1: get that drunk too often, and they're normally jolly happy.
42:34
Speaker 1: Catherine Rows is less than chirpy at this point. So
42:41
Speaker 1: the group of people they see her, they're they're worried
42:43
Speaker 1: about her, and they summon you know, policemen. And the
42:46
Speaker 1: thing is as well, remember this is the whole Victorian
42:50
Speaker 1: London temperance obsession that you know, the demon drink and
42:57
Speaker 1: all that fucking bullshit, right, and she is well, she's
43:03
Speaker 1: seen as either a poor creature or a weak fool,
43:08
Speaker 1: you know, it's you're a bad person if you consume alcohol.
43:12
Speaker 1: That's kind of the morality. No morality for you, No, no,
43:16
Speaker 1: no no, because you had your sniffer of I don't know,
43:20
Speaker 1: port or whatever. Well, a sniffer of port is fine,
43:24
Speaker 1: but a pintogen not really. It's one of those class things,
43:29
Speaker 1: you know. But anyway, they try and get her up.
43:33
Speaker 1: She slumps to the ground and it's a struggle. So
43:37
Speaker 1: the police officer comes and she gets put in the
43:41
Speaker 1: drunk tank. That's why it's half here at night. This happens.
43:44
Speaker 1: It's half here at night, so it's still that's she's
43:49
Speaker 1: supposed to be home by four and she's absolutely hammered
43:53
Speaker 1: lying there in the street. So anyway, she gets taken
43:55
Speaker 1: into the clink. She's in the cells, and she gets
43:59
Speaker 1: brought in. They ask her her name. She responds with
44:02
Speaker 1: nothing because you know, sassy, and yeah, she falls asleep,
44:11
Speaker 1: zongs out because she's you know, she's pissed. And a
44:15
Speaker 1: couple hours later, half twelve, the morning of the thirtieth
44:19
Speaker 1: of September, I guess, she wakes up and yeah, she
44:28
Speaker 1: asks when she gets to leave, and they basically tell
44:32
Speaker 1: her she can go once she can take care of herself.
44:34
Speaker 1: So like, once she's sober enough to go, and then
44:38
Speaker 1: what happens is she starts singing and she doesn't stop singing,
44:44
Speaker 1: and it takes thirty minutes, thirty minutes of us singing,
44:48
Speaker 1: annoying the jailer, the policeman, whoever's there, and he's just like, okay, fine,
44:54
Speaker 1: you're fine, you can go. You're sober enough to go.
44:57
Speaker 1: I think he was just sick of her, to be honest,
44:59
Speaker 1: he was like, no, I'm done, get out. And so
45:02
Speaker 1: she leaves and as she goes, Oh, there's a story
45:06
Speaker 1: that she gives her name as Mary Jane Kelly. That
45:09
Speaker 1: is absolute bollocks. She gives her name is nothing like,
45:15
Speaker 1: that's it playing zimbo. But they know her, they recognize her.
45:20
Speaker 1: That's how it is. So when she toddles out, she
45:26
Speaker 1: doesn't head towards Flower and Dane Street. She heard towards Algate,
45:30
Speaker 1: which is like where there was a prisoner that way.
45:34
Speaker 1: But also it's like we're one of her sisters kind
45:36
Speaker 1: of lives around there. And as she's heading out towards there,
45:43
Speaker 1: I mean, she's not sober, not really, she's not compassmentous
45:50
Speaker 1: she's definitely still tipsy, and it's pitch black. This is
45:56
Speaker 1: smoggie London with bay a gaslight. You know, you are
46:03
Speaker 1: struggling to move around, and so, as she's done many
46:09
Speaker 1: times before, she founds somewhere to sleep, because again, this
46:15
Speaker 1: is a woman who slept in the countryside, in barns
46:20
Speaker 1: and sheds and under the stars. You know, this woman
46:26
Speaker 1: will sleep anywhere, like could sleep on the edge of
46:30
Speaker 1: a razor blade probably, And so she's in mitter square.
46:36
Speaker 1: She positions herself appropriately as one does. And as she
46:42
Speaker 1: rests on the morning of the thirtieth of September, barely
46:48
Speaker 1: half an hour as she has been released from the cells,
46:53
Speaker 1: her life is taken. And like the rest of the
46:57
Speaker 1: victims of the Jack the Ripper, she has been murdered
47:01
Speaker 1: in her sleep. And it's really funny to me because
47:05
Speaker 1: so many people have an issue with this that like,
47:10
Speaker 1: there's this weird esteem held up about Jack, right, there's
47:14
Speaker 1: this sort of respect in a weird and creepy way
47:18
Speaker 1: that he has to be clever, he has to be smart,
47:20
Speaker 1: he has to be like hounding these particular women for
47:24
Speaker 1: a particular reason as opposed to a cowardly shit of
47:28
Speaker 1: a man who murdered vagrant, homeless women, women in their sleep,
47:39
Speaker 1: and the idea that it's not some big conspiracy, that
47:44
Speaker 1: it's not some genius level like hannibal lector just amazing
47:52
Speaker 1: myth of a man, when really it's just a violent
47:58
Speaker 1: arsehole who finds the week. You know, there's this whole
48:06
Speaker 1: saying it's like, if you pick on the Week, then
48:08
Speaker 1: you're even weaker. And that's why I think Jack the
48:10
Speaker 1: Ripper is they found an easy target and they used
48:15
Speaker 1: it to just mutilate and destroy any semblance of who
48:23
Speaker 1: these women were. Now I don't really like to talk
48:28
Speaker 1: about the actual murder so much because the focus should
48:31
Speaker 1: be on these women. And her body is discovered by
48:39
Speaker 1: a policeman who's like, she wasn't there five minutes ago,
48:41
Speaker 1: I swear, and it's like, or did you not look,
48:47
Speaker 1: or maybe you just didn't pass that direction, or maybe
48:51
Speaker 1: you weren't quite doing the rounds you were supposed to
48:53
Speaker 1: be doing, maybe you were somewhere else. Maybe you're covering
48:58
Speaker 1: your ass by saying, oh, that happened really suddenly, clearly.
49:02
Speaker 1: But it just I don't subscribe to this everybody being
49:10
Speaker 1: honorable scenario just because it doesn't make sense. But anyway,
49:18
Speaker 1: when she passes away, her family, even though they're not
49:23
Speaker 1: the wealthiest of people in the world, they ensure she
49:27
Speaker 1: has a decent send off. See her family, they were
49:31
Speaker 1: not going to let her go into a pauper's grave.
49:33
Speaker 1: It wasn't happening. And the thing is as well, she
49:37
Speaker 1: was well liked. She was known as being jolly and kind,
49:41
Speaker 1: and people knew her from singing and they knew her
49:44
Speaker 1: from being around and because as well, due to the
49:51
Speaker 1: horrific way that she was mutilated, it became a sort
49:59
Speaker 1: of learning point for a lot of people. And you
50:05
Speaker 1: had people lining the streets on the day of her funeral,
50:09
Speaker 1: Like as the morning carriage went through. They paid for
50:12
Speaker 1: morning carriage. That's not cheap. And like in the morning carriage,
50:16
Speaker 1: you've got John Kelly, You've got i think four of
50:19
Speaker 1: Catherine's sisters and a couple of her nieces. And so
50:24
Speaker 1: the morning coach is following the coffin and there's what
50:27
Speaker 1: I think about five hundred people waiting sort of nearby
50:31
Speaker 1: the City of London cemetery when she actually gets interred,
50:36
Speaker 1: and then forty three years old, Catherine Edows is laid
50:43
Speaker 1: to rest and thus ends our story of Catherine Edrows,
50:53
Speaker 1: who I believe is the last the victim, or at
50:58
Speaker 1: least in the UK, the last English victim of Jack
51:03
Speaker 1: the Ripper. And I know this is a weird thing
51:06
Speaker 1: to say, but if you liked my retelling of the
51:09
Speaker 1: history of Catherine Edow's, feel free to rate and review
51:13
Speaker 1: five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It feels weird
51:19
Speaker 1: to promote after that, it really does. Yeah, finish up
51:23
Speaker 1: my news. You can obviously come see me in Kansas
51:30
Speaker 1: for the very last Heartland Pagan Festival. I'm gonna be
51:34
Speaker 1: there doing one talk with a Q and A, three
51:36
Speaker 1: workshops and a live podcast recording. It's going to be swell.
51:41
Speaker 1: So there's that the Year's a code for tickets in
51:44
Speaker 1: the description down below. Use code Ktie twenty three h
51:48
Speaker 1: checkout for a discount. There's also a little link for
51:52
Speaker 1: the Trover trip emailing list, so if you want to
51:55
Speaker 1: join me on my trip to Scotland and spread of
52:00
Speaker 1: next year. I just if you haven't already done the survey,
52:03
Speaker 1: it's fine, you don't have to worry about it. And
52:05
Speaker 1: if you've done the survey, you don't need to join
52:07
Speaker 1: the mailing list. But if you haven't done that and
52:11
Speaker 1: you still want to think about going, just add your
52:15
Speaker 1: name to the week email list and you'll be added
52:18
Speaker 1: and we'll let you know more details as they come.
52:21
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I've never done like a proper chure
52:23
Speaker 1: of Scotland. It's been so long since I was there properly,
52:28
Speaker 1: and there's so many areas I've never been to, and
52:30
Speaker 1: there's so much history. Ah, and there's so many castles.
52:34
Speaker 1: Fucking love we castles though. I really do a bloody
52:37
Speaker 1: love of castle, I really really do. And let me
52:43
Speaker 1: see now anything else to tell you? Oh, recommendation time?
52:46
Speaker 1: How could I go without recommendation time? So for watching,
52:52
Speaker 1: I'm gonna recommend you watch the Eurovision this Friday. If
52:55
Speaker 1: you're watching this on if you're listening to Sorry on
53:01
Speaker 1: release day or release week, go wat to the Eurovision. Like,
53:05
Speaker 1: if it isn't tacky and cheesy in camp or just
53:09
Speaker 1: playing weird, then it shouldn't be in Eurovision. I'm sorry,
53:13
Speaker 1: don't be serious for Eurovision. I want madness, I want
53:16
Speaker 1: chaos and yeah, if you're at time, do that. For reading,
53:25
Speaker 1: I am going to suggest Mortal Monarchs by Susie Edge
53:30
Speaker 1: just with the coronation, it's inspired me. And finally for listening,
53:36
Speaker 1: everyone should listen to the lesbian version of Joline. It
53:39
Speaker 1: is so good. It is probably one of my favorite
53:43
Speaker 1: pieces of music at the minute. It's just so fun.
53:46
Speaker 1: And with that, oh yeah, you can follow me on Instagram, Twitter,
53:53
Speaker 1: all the places and like if you interact with me,
53:56
Speaker 1: like I generally interact back. I'm snarky though, it just
54:01
Speaker 1: means I've had a really bad day and I apologize.
54:04
Speaker 1: But yes, I am going to bed you a good
54:08
Speaker 1: evening and I hope you have a great night. Adieus
54:12
Speaker 1: Au revoir of What Is That? My Friends Abode? Bye,