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The Disappearance of Elizabeth Smart · Legally Brunette

0:01
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Legally Brunette. I
0:05
Speaker 1: will be your host Emily Simpson with Shane and today
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Speaker 1: we are going to discuss the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart.
0:15
Speaker 1: There is a new documentary that just came out recently
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Speaker 1: on Netflix called Kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. It came out on
0:21
Speaker 1: January twenty. First, if you have not had the opportunity
0:24
Speaker 1: to watch it, I think it was great. I watched
0:26
Speaker 1: it yesterday. It's one oh, okay, I believe it's two
0:30
Speaker 1: hours or maybe an hour and a half. It's very good.
0:33
Speaker 1: I believe there's been lots of documentaries about Elizabeth Smart
0:37
Speaker 1: and made for TV movies and all the things. I
0:40
Speaker 1: read an interview with her that said she's now in
0:44
Speaker 1: a happy place in her life. She's married, she has
0:46
Speaker 1: a husband, she has children, she has a very happy,
0:49
Speaker 1: normal life, and I think she feels as if now
0:53
Speaker 1: it is her chance, opportunity time to tell her story
0:56
Speaker 1: in her own words and not through someone else. To
1:00
Speaker 1: also show that even though she went through this horrible
1:03
Speaker 1: traumatic kidnapping abduction for nine months, that there is a
1:08
Speaker 1: happy ending at the end.
1:09
Speaker 2: So, first of all, do you what timing too to
1:12
Speaker 2: release it now with this whole aana, I know, I know,
1:17
Speaker 2: because that is getting some serious press.
1:20
Speaker 1: The correlation and just the abduction, and I mean it's
1:24
Speaker 1: it's crazy. So in June of two thousand and two,
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Speaker 1: do you remember this case. It was two thousand and two,
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Speaker 1: fourteen year old Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her bedroom
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Speaker 1: in Salt Lake City, Utah, sparking one of the most
1:36
Speaker 1: high profile missing person cases in US history. She was
1:40
Speaker 1: held captive for nine months in remote locations while her
1:43
Speaker 1: kidnappers disguised her identity in public. I will tell you
1:47
Speaker 1: her kidnapper and his wife, they were very brazen people.
1:52
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
1:53
Speaker 1: I mean the fact that this man kidnapped her in
1:56
Speaker 1: the middle of the night with a knife and then
1:58
Speaker 1: paraded her around in public.
2:01
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, in plain sight and plain sight sight.
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Speaker 1: I mean going just walking around Salt Lake City, going
2:08
Speaker 1: to libraries, just out and about. I mean, talk about
2:12
Speaker 1: an egotistical, brazen joy.
2:15
Speaker 2: Well, he probably felt like showing he was showing her off,
2:19
Speaker 2: like well, he was kind of in the public like
2:23
Speaker 2: to his own ego. He was kind of like, yeah,
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Speaker 2: I have this girl, I've adducted her, and you can't
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Speaker 2: do anything about it.
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Speaker 1: Elizabeth endured severe psychological and physical abuse before being rescued
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Speaker 1: in March of two thousand and three. She was actually
2:37
Speaker 1: abducted and held captive for nine months, which was aided
2:43
Speaker 1: in part by her younger sister's recollection of the kidnappers'
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Speaker 1: voice and public tips that led police to Elizabeth and
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Speaker 1: her captors.
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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, do we say how old she was at
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Speaker 2: the time?
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Speaker 1: She was fourteen?
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Speaker 2: Okay, and I think her sister they shared a room together,
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Speaker 2: and that's how she recognized the voice. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Today, Elizabeth Smart is a victim's rights advocate and founder
3:02
Speaker 1: of the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, working to support survivors and
3:06
Speaker 1: improved child safety laws. So let's just go back. Let's
3:09
Speaker 1: just talk about the timeline. This is June fifth of
3:12
Speaker 1: two thousand and two. I actually I always like to
3:15
Speaker 1: go back and think about two thousand and two. So
3:17
Speaker 1: June of two thousand and two, what would you What
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Speaker 1: were you doing in June in two thousand and two?
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Speaker 1: Do you remember?
3:23
Speaker 2: No, No, we have no idea.
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Speaker 1: I don't know. I was just wondering four years ago. Well,
3:29
Speaker 1: I started law school in August.
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Speaker 2: My birthdays in June, so I was probably thinking about that, right.
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Speaker 1: I just know. Two thousand and two is when I
3:38
Speaker 1: started law school, so you know, I divide, like my
3:41
Speaker 1: life is divided up. There's like chapters, chapters. There's college,
3:46
Speaker 1: there's college, there's there's pre college, there's college, there's after college,
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Speaker 1: there's college. Then there is teaching because I taught high
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Speaker 1: school for four years, so there's that chapter. Then there's
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Speaker 1: law school, so there's that chapter. Then after law school
4:01
Speaker 1: there's Shane. So then there's like that that's a long chapter,
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Speaker 1: that's like a seventeen Then there's like, I don't know,
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Speaker 1: then there's housewives. So like there's all these chapters. Anyway,
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Speaker 1: two thousand and two, we're here. We're at June fifth,
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Speaker 1: two thousand and two.
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Speaker 2: You're in the chapter now where you're fifty and old.
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Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for reminding me. I'm in the fifty
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Speaker 1: chapter fifty year old. I'm in the chapter fifty right now. Yes.
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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart is taken from her bedroom that she shared
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Speaker 1: with her nine year old sister in Salt Lake City, Utah.
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Speaker 1: Her abductor cut a hole in the kitchen window screen
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Speaker 1: and entered through the window. He held a knife to
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Speaker 1: Elizabeth's throat and told her to get up quietly. If
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Speaker 1: she didn't follow his directions, he threatened to kill her
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Speaker 1: and her family. Elizabeth's sister Mary Catherine, witnessed part of
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Speaker 1: the abduction, but she was unable to stop it. I mean,
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Speaker 1: she was nine years old at the time.
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Speaker 2: I could deal.
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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean they interview her in the documentary.
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Speaker 1: She said, you know, she closed her eyes, she was scared,
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Speaker 1: she was paralyzed. Absolutely, she heard the voice. She knew
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Speaker 1: her sister was gone. I do believe, according to her
5:09
Speaker 1: that I think it even took a little while before
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Speaker 1: she got up the courage to get out of bed
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Speaker 1: and go tell her picsions. I think she laid there
5:16
Speaker 1: for a while.
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Speaker 2: You know, I kind of always wonder, like we'll never
5:20
Speaker 2: know the answer. But let's say she and I don't
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Speaker 2: blame her at all for being frozen and scared and
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Speaker 2: just you know, trying to not get involved. I get
5:28
Speaker 2: that had she screamed, had she called for help and
5:32
Speaker 2: screamed right like loudly, like obnoxiously, yeah, what would have happened?
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Speaker 2: Would he have ran scared? Would he have used the knife? See,
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Speaker 2: here's we'll never know.
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Speaker 1: We'll never know, But this is something I thought about
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Speaker 1: because I have a thirteen year old daughter. We I mean,
5:48
Speaker 1: you and I together have a thirteen year old daughter.
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Speaker 1: So I'm thinking about my daughter, and I'm thinking if
5:54
Speaker 1: someone climbed into her bedroom window. I told her because
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Speaker 1: I watched this documentary and then I took her school,
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Speaker 1: I told her, I said, you scream in the right yeah,
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Speaker 1: I said, do not if anything ever happens like that
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Speaker 1: where someone.
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Speaker 2: Oh, you have to kick, I scream and make it
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Speaker 2: so that person says, this ain't worse.
6:11
Speaker 1: I told Annabelle. I had this conversation with her on
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Speaker 1: the way to school. I said, if you are ever,
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Speaker 1: I mean, the chances of this ever happening are slim.
6:19
Speaker 1: But I said to her, if you are ever in
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Speaker 1: any kind of situation where someone is trying to take you,
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Speaker 1: and I don't care what they say. I don't care
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Speaker 1: if they say I'm gonna kill your parents or I'm
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Speaker 1: gonna I said, you fight, you fight, and you scream.
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Speaker 1: I saw, and you kick.
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Speaker 2: I watched about a month ago, a body cam footage
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Speaker 2: of a police officer that was reporting to like a
6:39
Speaker 2: subway actually and because there was an abduction or an
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Speaker 2: attempted abduction, and there was security footage, and so I
6:47
Speaker 2: saw the security footage. So he gets there and she's saying, yeah,
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Speaker 2: he tried to take me on. Then they show the
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Speaker 2: security footage and of like the parking lot, and this
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Speaker 2: guy was grabbing her from inside the subway and pulling
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Speaker 2: her out, and she was, you know, like twenty and
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Speaker 2: she was kicking and screaming and fighting him. And then
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Speaker 2: he was trying to push her in the car. So
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Speaker 2: he got her all the way and she was holding
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Speaker 2: out her arms and legs and refusing to get in obviously,
7:14
Speaker 2: and he was trying and trying and trying, and she
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Speaker 2: was screaming like help me, you know, all this stuff,
7:21
Speaker 2: and then he gave up and he got in the
7:23
Speaker 2: car and he drove off. Yeah. No, then they found
7:25
Speaker 2: him and this and that. But and she knew because
7:27
Speaker 2: she said that her parents told her and she knew.
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Speaker 2: She goes, if I got in that car, he was
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Speaker 2: gonna kill me. I mean maybe he wouldn't have, but
7:33
Speaker 2: she's that's not the time to worry about that. Yeah,
7:35
Speaker 2: it's time to just assume. So that was a And
7:38
Speaker 2: I showed Annibal actually a little bit of that video.
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Speaker 2: I said, do you see how she's doing that. That's
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Speaker 2: why she's alive today.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So in June sixth of two thousand and two,
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Speaker 1: this is the day after the abduction. Soon after the abduction,
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Speaker 1: Mary Catherine wakes her parents and tells them that Elizabeth
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Speaker 1: was taken. The family immediately reports her missing, and police
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Speaker 1: began widespread searches. Actually, the dad says in the documentary
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Speaker 1: that he thought when the daughter woke him up and
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Speaker 1: said that that Elizabeth had been taken, he thought that
8:07
Speaker 1: she had a nightmare. And his first that was his
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Speaker 1: first inclination that, you know, the child like she had
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Speaker 1: a nightmare. You know, they're looking around the house and
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Speaker 1: then they go into the kitchen because they're they're looking
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Speaker 1: for Elizabeth. They thought maybe she's got out of bed
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Speaker 1: and moved somewhere and the younger daughter was having a
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Speaker 1: nightmare or a night terror or something. But they walk
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Speaker 1: into the kitchen and the mom sees that the windows
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Speaker 1: open and the screens cut, and she screams, And that's
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Speaker 1: when you go into it. There aren't even words livid, scared, terrified, petrified,
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Speaker 1: I mean my whole I would just have full body. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: The family immediately reports her missing and police began a
8:48
Speaker 1: widespread search. We learned later from Elizabeth's account that she
8:53
Speaker 1: was taken into the mountains near the family home and
8:56
Speaker 1: hidden there. So he takes her out of her I
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Speaker 1: believe they go back. I guess they leave. I don't
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Speaker 1: know if they leave through that window in the kitchen
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Speaker 1: that he cut her, if they go through her bedroom window,
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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I mean, I guess it doesn't matter.
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Speaker 1: He takes her from the home and they'd make a
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Speaker 1: three mile trek through the mountains. Yeah, yeah, walking. I
9:15
Speaker 1: can't remember the exact name, but it was a very
9:17
Speaker 1: affluent neighborhood. I think it was called Federal Heights or
9:19
Speaker 1: something like that. Does that sound familiar. I mean you
9:21
Speaker 1: lived in Utah.
9:22
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I do every city in Utah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean it looks like a you lived
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Speaker 1: in Utah too, Yeah, you live really longer. But it
9:29
Speaker 1: looked like it was a huge home. I mean they did.
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Speaker 1: They were a very affluent family. So, and you know
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Speaker 1: how Utah is. You'll have these beautiful neighborhoods with these
9:40
Speaker 1: huge homes, but they back up to the mountains, so
9:43
Speaker 1: there's a lot of homes where you can literally walk
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Speaker 1: out the back of your house and then there's a
9:47
Speaker 1: mountain in your backyard. So the way I understand it
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Speaker 1: is he kidnapped her from the house and then made
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Speaker 1: a three mile trek walking up into the mountains into
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Speaker 1: a campsite where his wife was waiting for them.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Federal Heights. Federal Heights in Salt Lake County. I
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Speaker 2: don't know where.
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Speaker 1: I guess it's like a very posh big homes, you know.
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Speaker 2: Is that where you want to move? Well, if we
10:11
Speaker 2: move to Utah, just don't use any street vendors for
10:14
Speaker 2: a hand.
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Speaker 1: The Smart Family appears on television this is throughout June
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Speaker 1: of two thousand and two and radio appealing for tips.
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Speaker 1: They are a large Mormon family living in a close
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Speaker 1: knit community that is very willing to help.
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Speaker 2: Posters flyers, I remember going to church and stuff, and
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Speaker 2: there'd be stuff on billboards. Wait, were you in Utah
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Speaker 2: in two two No, I was in California. All right, Yeah,
10:43
Speaker 2: but I mean, you know, networking and stuff, so you
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Speaker 2: hear about it.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, posters flyers, public campaign pains flood Utah and surrounding states.
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Speaker 1: Please start investigating inside the home. This is where police,
10:57
Speaker 1: you know what we were just talking about. The Nancy
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Speaker 1: Gothrie kidnapping is that they always look at the family,
11:02
Speaker 1: so they suspected the dad. I mean they were looking
11:05
Speaker 1: into him. He had to take a polygraph. Then the dad,
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Speaker 1: I believe his name is Ed, has brothers, so she
11:13
Speaker 1: so Elizabeth Smart, has his uncles. They all come into
11:16
Speaker 1: well because it helps her.
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Speaker 2: Probably initially comes off very targeted, comes in through a
11:21
Speaker 2: certain window, goes all the way up into the house,
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Speaker 2: into a certain bedroom, picks the one child, and then
11:27
Speaker 2: leaves right. Didn't take anything else as him, so it's
11:30
Speaker 2: not like he broke in, grabbed a few things. She
11:33
Speaker 2: was getting a drink in the kitchen he grabbed. I
11:36
Speaker 2: mean it looked very like, okay, this person knows this house,
11:39
Speaker 2: in this family.
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Speaker 1: So Elizabeth's dad, Ed Smart was looked at closely because
11:44
Speaker 1: he was very emotional in interviews. But people noticed that
11:46
Speaker 1: there were no real tears that came out when he
11:49
Speaker 1: was crying. You know. I saw that in the documentary.
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Speaker 1: They showed so much news footage of him, and he
11:54
Speaker 1: was always in the media. He was always.
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Speaker 2: Always The fathers though they're always i mean heartbroken and everything,
12:01
Speaker 2: but you don't see them crying as much. And I
12:03
Speaker 2: think and then you see the mother kind of more emotional.
12:07
Speaker 2: But I think it's because it's like, like, okay, we've
12:11
Speaker 2: we've lost kids before, right, like they're they're like we've
12:16
Speaker 2: lost kids. We're like we're in the front yard and
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Speaker 2: they walked down the street right or or like you
12:22
Speaker 2: lost sight of them for a moment.
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Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know what you're talking about. You said
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Speaker 1: we've lost kids before, we lost sight of them, lost
12:27
Speaker 1: sight of them. Okay, yes, I was like, what are
12:30
Speaker 1: you talking about? Yes, lost sight of them.
12:32
Speaker 2: Okay, that's putting it, yes correctly. Okay, and you've done.
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Speaker 1: What or what are you what are you referring to?
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Speaker 2: Well, you get emotional and you worry.
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Speaker 1: I lost Luke one time. Is that what you're talking about?
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Speaker 2: But he was just like in the neighbor's front yards.
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Speaker 1: Somebody your parents took him for a joy ride around
12:50
Speaker 1: the neighborhood and I didn't know.
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Speaker 2: We were going to take Keller and then Luke said
12:58
Speaker 2: he didn't want to go. So Luke was inside the house.
13:00
Speaker 2: Were like, okay, find Luca's stay here, And the next
13:02
Speaker 2: thing we know, the front doors open and we can't
13:03
Speaker 2: find Luke. I think he ran out and it turned
13:06
Speaker 2: out he said no, he wanted to go, and he
13:07
Speaker 2: ran back out with him and he went in their
13:09
Speaker 2: car and they went up and down the street or
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Speaker 2: something in the car. Yes, I called nine one one, Okay,
13:13
Speaker 2: can we get to my point of you having a
13:15
Speaker 2: mental breakdown your emotional understandably, isn't that and me? Yeah,
13:21
Speaker 2: I mean I was scared, but I had to focus. Yeah,
13:26
Speaker 2: I had to look for him. I had to call
13:28
Speaker 2: my parents, I had to figure out what's going on
13:30
Speaker 2: this and that. So that's what I think happens in
13:33
Speaker 2: the media is the guy is thinking, well, someone's got
13:35
Speaker 2: to go up to this podium, someone's got to get
13:36
Speaker 2: the word out, someone's got to talk. And obviously I'm
13:39
Speaker 2: not going to put my wife through this because she's
13:41
Speaker 2: clearly broken. Yeah, So it does not mean that he does.
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Speaker 1: Not get I think the point with Ed was that
13:48
Speaker 1: he was very emotional in the interviews, and like emotional,
13:52
Speaker 1: like looked like he was crying, like he was crying,
13:54
Speaker 1: but there were no tears. And everybody, everybody's very analytical
13:58
Speaker 1: of the way people their body language. They're real tears.
14:01
Speaker 1: Do you believe them? Is hebelievable?
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Speaker 2: You know?
14:03
Speaker 1: At the end of the day. You can't really judge
14:06
Speaker 1: someone by their reactions, as we talk about with the
14:08
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger case and the girls in the house and
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Speaker 1: the two that survived, and we questioned why they waited
14:14
Speaker 1: so long, why did they do this, why did they
14:15
Speaker 1: do that? Why didn't they call the police until noon
14:18
Speaker 1: the next day. But you can't ever know how you're
14:22
Speaker 1: going to behave react until you're put in a situation
14:26
Speaker 1: like that. So anyway, he was.
14:28
Speaker 2: So my point is, I think men also react as
14:30
Speaker 2: differently than women do, so they might not be so
14:34
Speaker 2: visibly emotional with tears and whatnot.
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Speaker 1: So Ed had a brother named Tom Smart, who was
14:40
Speaker 1: also looked at closely because he failed a polygraph test
14:43
Speaker 1: and acted odd in interviews, claiming the kidnappers actually like
14:48
Speaker 1: Elizabeth and whoever took her isn't a bad person at all.
14:51
Speaker 2: That was weird.
14:52
Speaker 1: It was so odd. So Ed has I believe two
14:56
Speaker 1: or three brothers. So those are the uncles, and they
14:58
Speaker 1: are in the interviews, they're in this documentary and it
15:01
Speaker 1: shows news clips or footage of them, and his brother
15:06
Speaker 1: Tom was just bizarre. He just he should never do interviews.
15:10
Speaker 1: They should have never allowed him to speak because obviously
15:14
Speaker 1: clearly we know he had nothing to do with it. Now,
15:17
Speaker 1: but at the time he would say weird things like, well,
15:21
Speaker 1: Ellis was just an angel and they took her because
15:24
Speaker 1: they like her, and you know, it was just strange,
15:27
Speaker 1: very odd.
15:27
Speaker 2: In the current documentary they say that, yes, will they
15:31
Speaker 2: show or is this footage from back then that they're
15:33
Speaker 2: showing that.
15:34
Speaker 1: Footage from back in two thousand and two.
15:37
Speaker 2: Okay when she was missing. When she was missing, and
15:40
Speaker 2: he's just thinking everything's fine, Well, she's probably just well liked.
15:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just weird, he made very.
15:47
Speaker 2: Odd pissed at my brother, Yeah, and I think and then.
15:52
Speaker 1: The problem is is that he acts so bizarre and
15:55
Speaker 1: he fails a polygraph. Then the police are looking at
15:58
Speaker 1: him kidding, and they're not looking where they should be
16:02
Speaker 1: looking because we know that the uncles had nothing to.
16:05
Speaker 2: Do with it.
16:05
Speaker 1: He's just an odd he's just strange. He should have
16:08
Speaker 1: never been allowed to.
16:09
Speaker 2: Talk or that guy should be a law enforcement no,
16:12
Speaker 2: because he would give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
16:15
Speaker 1: So the family is eventually cleared, but they noticed public
16:17
Speaker 1: support and search efforts took a huge dive as police
16:21
Speaker 1: zeroed in on them. You know, and that's that's unfortunate
16:24
Speaker 1: when when you are looking at the family and then
16:27
Speaker 1: you start to analyze the dad, and then you give
16:29
Speaker 1: the dad a polygraph, and then the uncle takes a
16:30
Speaker 1: polygraph and he doesn't pass it, and then he does
16:33
Speaker 1: weird interviews and says.
16:34
Speaker 2: That the brother was suspicious of him too. It's like
16:37
Speaker 2: you're saying it was bizarre, saying you're not passing the.
16:39
Speaker 1: Test, and then the public that was rallying around the
16:42
Speaker 1: family and helping with all these searches, then they're not
16:46
Speaker 1: as invested in it because they're thinking that possibly the
16:49
Speaker 1: uncle or the dad had something to do with it.
16:52
Speaker 2: I'll tell you if if one of our children, if
16:54
Speaker 2: I was in a situation where I was a suspect,
16:56
Speaker 2: I'd be doing everything I can to eliminate myself. Okay,
16:59
Speaker 2: let's take a polygraph tests. Okay, I'll answer all your questions.
17:02
Speaker 2: I'll do whatever you need to do so that way
17:04
Speaker 2: you can eliminate me and move on to the next person.
17:08
Speaker 1: So who is Richard recy? So this is their first
17:11
Speaker 1: main suspect. Once they've cleared the family, they do come
17:15
Speaker 1: up with he seems like a very viable suspect. Reese
17:19
Speaker 1: had done home repair work at the Smart residence in
17:21
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City. Because he was familiar with the house's layout,
17:25
Speaker 1: investigators believe he could have known how to enter quietly.
17:29
Speaker 1: Police Why did the police suspect him so? Richard Reesy
17:33
Speaker 1: and Ed Smart had gotten into a fight about payment
17:36
Speaker 1: shortly before Elizabeth's disappearance. Richard was familiar with their home,
17:41
Speaker 1: and police theorized that the kidnapper likely understood the house well,
17:44
Speaker 1: which made recy stand out obviously because they cut the
17:47
Speaker 1: window into the kitchen, and I think because he slipped
17:50
Speaker 1: in so easily into the house, took Elizabeth slipped out
17:53
Speaker 1: so easily, it was clear that this was someone that
17:56
Speaker 1: knew the layout of the home. And it was a
17:58
Speaker 1: big house, so it's not like he was randomly searching
18:01
Speaker 1: bedrooms trying to find, you know, Elizabeth.
18:03
Speaker 2: He knew exactly was someone that knew the house or
18:06
Speaker 2: I was targeted.
18:09
Speaker 1: So he also had a criminal history. So after Elizabeth disappeared,
18:14
Speaker 1: police searched Reese's home and found stolen items from the
18:17
Speaker 1: Smart family, including jewelry from Elizabeth's mother, Lois. Prior to
18:21
Speaker 1: the kidnapping, Reese had a history of theft and fraud
18:24
Speaker 1: as well, which made investigators more inclined to see him
18:28
Speaker 1: as a possible offender. Now we know that the actual
18:31
Speaker 1: abductor also worked on their home, and this guy, Richard Reesi,
18:36
Speaker 1: also did some work on their home. It seems a
18:38
Speaker 1: problem to me that they're hiring people. They're allowing people
18:43
Speaker 1: to come into their home and do work or do
18:46
Speaker 1: odd jobs that they shouldn't And I don't and I
18:50
Speaker 1: mean when we hire someone, I mean, we've remodeled our
18:53
Speaker 1: entire house almost. I mean, we don't do background checks
18:56
Speaker 1: on people, but we also I mean, I guess Lois
19:02
Speaker 1: or ed I think they're just being kind and they're
19:06
Speaker 1: finding people that are down and out, and then.
19:09
Speaker 2: Say probably thought they were extending some opportunities.
19:12
Speaker 1: I think they were being charitable and saying, oh, they
19:15
Speaker 1: were being charitable, come and do some work at our house,
19:18
Speaker 1: and you know, we'll pay you and try to help
19:20
Speaker 1: you get on your feet.
19:22
Speaker 2: No good, de Goo's unpunished.
19:24
Speaker 1: So what happened with Reesy? So he was arrested for
19:26
Speaker 1: parole violations and theft, but not for kidnapping Elizabeth. However,
19:31
Speaker 1: police interrogated him about Elizabeth and were certain that they
19:34
Speaker 1: had caught the perpetrator. But when Mary Catherine this is
19:38
Speaker 1: the younger sister, remember she was nine at the time,
19:41
Speaker 1: saw Richard Reesi, she told investigators that that was not
19:45
Speaker 1: the man who took her sister. Despite her being the
19:48
Speaker 1: only eyewitness in this case, police dismissed her account, claiming
19:52
Speaker 1: that she was most likely too groggy during the event
19:55
Speaker 1: and that she couldn't remember correctly. However, she was pretty
19:58
Speaker 1: clear that when she saw reci she saw the way
20:01
Speaker 1: he looks, she heard his voice that she said, like, I.
20:03
Speaker 2: Don't know, that seems pretty good to me.
20:04
Speaker 1: That's not him, you know. They also kept her this
20:08
Speaker 1: is the younger sister, away from the media. They didn't
20:11
Speaker 1: allow her. They tried really hard not to talk about
20:14
Speaker 1: the case in front of her, not to allow her
20:16
Speaker 1: to watch the news, not to allow her to be
20:18
Speaker 1: influenced by anything, because they wanted her and it makes sense.
20:22
Speaker 2: They didn't want to. They didn't want to add confusion
20:24
Speaker 2: to her or have her second guessing what she saw
20:27
Speaker 2: or heard.
20:28
Speaker 1: I think they didn't want to taint, taint the good
20:31
Speaker 1: word her memory of that night. They wanted to keep it,
20:34
Speaker 1: as you know, fresh and clear and untainted as possible.
20:40
Speaker 1: So they tried to shield her from all the conversations the.
20:43
Speaker 2: News, which they probably should do anyway, because it's probably
20:45
Speaker 2: just more you know, emotionally troubling to see all that stuff.
20:49
Speaker 1: So police remain convinced that it's Richard Reesy is the kidnapper,
20:53
Speaker 1: so he was held in custody. While in custody, in
20:56
Speaker 1: August of two thousand and two, Richard recy died of
20:59
Speaker 1: a brain hammer which caused by a stroke. Before he
21:02
Speaker 1: could be fully cleared or charged. Police had then lost
21:05
Speaker 1: their only lead in the case. So that was their
21:09
Speaker 1: one lead. That was our one sess book. They cleared
21:11
Speaker 1: the family. They were honing in on Richard Reesi. They
21:14
Speaker 1: think this is the guy. You know, he stole things
21:16
Speaker 1: from the house, he'd been in the house. He has
21:18
Speaker 1: a history of criminality, you know, he's been in trouble
21:22
Speaker 1: with the law before. It's probably him. He dies in custody,
21:27
Speaker 1: so now they have no leads. So there are some
21:29
Speaker 1: months to pass. But then in October of two thousand
21:32
Speaker 1: and two, Mary Catherine suddenly it's actually she's reading a book.
21:36
Speaker 1: So she talks about how at night time she likes
21:38
Speaker 1: to read books before she goes to bed, and she's
21:40
Speaker 1: actually looking through a book, the Guinness Book of World
21:43
Speaker 1: Records at home, when all of a sudden, it hits
21:47
Speaker 1: her the kidnapper's name, and she says, she tells her
21:50
Speaker 1: parents that Emmanuel took Elizabeth.
21:55
Speaker 2: How did she come up with me?
21:56
Speaker 1: I think just something something she saw, looked at How
21:59
Speaker 1: would she know her name to begin with?
22:02
Speaker 2: You mean she put the voice the voice, Okay, So
22:04
Speaker 2: she made a connection of who the voice was. Yeah,
22:07
Speaker 2: So it was this guy that's been working in her
22:08
Speaker 2: house named Emmanuel. Okay.
22:10
Speaker 1: So she always knew that she recognized the voice.
22:13
Speaker 2: She just put a place.
22:15
Speaker 1: But something clicked that night when she's looking at this
22:19
Speaker 1: Guinness Book of World Records. I don't know if it
22:21
Speaker 1: was something she saw, just something clicked in her mind
22:23
Speaker 1: and it hit her that that was the person. So
22:34
Speaker 1: who is Emmanuel? So Per The New York Times, his
22:37
Speaker 1: name is Brian David Mitchell, and he referred to himself
22:41
Speaker 1: as a manual. He first met the Smart family in
22:44
Speaker 1: two thousand and one while panhandling in downtown Salt Lake City.
22:48
Speaker 1: Elizabeth's mom, Lois, spoke with him and handed him her
22:52
Speaker 1: husband's business card so that he could get some work.
22:56
Speaker 1: Soon afterward, Brian David Mitchell did yard work at the
22:59
Speaker 1: Smart Time home and this is what we were just
23:00
Speaker 1: talking about, how they're just they're just kindtunity, right. It
23:08
Speaker 1: was roughly a year later, on June fifth, two thousand
23:10
Speaker 1: and two, that Mitchell, this is Brian David Mitchell, returned
23:15
Speaker 1: back to kidnap Elizabeth. After taking her from the home,
23:19
Speaker 1: he led her through nearby woods to a remote campground
23:22
Speaker 1: in the Utah Mountains where his wife her name's Wanda Barzi,
23:26
Speaker 1: who also referred to herself as Hepsiba, was waiting. So
23:30
Speaker 1: he referred to himself as a manual and his wife
23:34
Speaker 1: referred to herself as hepsibah Okay, they forced Elizabeth to
23:40
Speaker 1: change into a religious robe and partake in a ceremony
23:43
Speaker 1: in which she was married to Mitchell. That night, Mitchell
23:48
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted her for the first time. He claimed he
23:51
Speaker 1: was a prophet of God and needed to obtain seven
23:54
Speaker 1: wives for himself. Smart became his second wife, alongside Barzi,
24:01
Speaker 1: who they're legally married, who willingly participated in Mitchell's warped reality.
24:08
Speaker 1: They were members of the LDS Church, both of them
24:11
Speaker 1: at one point.
24:12
Speaker 2: And smart family too.
24:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this and the Smart family, but also.
24:17
Speaker 2: David Well clearly deviated. Slightly.
24:20
Speaker 1: Months go by and a police sketch is made of
24:23
Speaker 1: Brian David Mitchell. This is when So when the younger
24:28
Speaker 1: daughter names Emmanuel, they don't have photos of the guy, right,
24:32
Speaker 1: and he's living up in the mountains. So the younger
24:35
Speaker 1: sibling works with the sketch artists and she describes or
24:39
Speaker 1: maybe even it was the family. I don't know.
24:41
Speaker 2: Well, if they're all trying to describe the same guy,
24:43
Speaker 2: then maybe they reviewed him all away.
24:45
Speaker 1: So a sketch artist comes up with a sketch of what.
24:48
Speaker 2: He looks like and did he look similar?
24:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was good. I mean, it's pretty good sketch artists.
24:54
Speaker 1: But the police do not want to release it to
24:57
Speaker 1: the public. So they're adamant that.
24:59
Speaker 2: If they I'm guessing they think he's local and he's
25:02
Speaker 2: still in the area, and they don't want him to
25:03
Speaker 2: flee with.
25:04
Speaker 1: Her, right, So I think they don't want to release
25:07
Speaker 1: it because they think it will be detrimental to the
25:09
Speaker 1: case and detrimental to Elizabeth. And they think, yes, like
25:13
Speaker 1: he could either kill her if she's still alive, or
25:15
Speaker 1: he could flee with her. Or he could flee the area,
25:18
Speaker 1: and so they don't want to scare him or tip
25:20
Speaker 1: him off that they're onto him. However, the dad ed
25:24
Speaker 1: goes to the media and they end up releasing the
25:26
Speaker 1: sketch anyway.
25:27
Speaker 2: Which you know, he has a father, so if he
25:30
Speaker 2: felt that was fit, then I guess that's not entirely wrong.
25:33
Speaker 1: So investigators refuse to release the sketch to the public.
25:36
Speaker 1: They are very hesitant that Mitchell is the suspect and
25:39
Speaker 1: don't believe they have enough evidence to follow through with
25:41
Speaker 1: this lead. They don't want to release the sketch and
25:44
Speaker 1: fear that it could spook the suspect and force him
25:46
Speaker 1: to flee.
25:48
Speaker 2: Okay, that's right.
25:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, So during this time, Elizabeth is being transported out
25:52
Speaker 1: of the state. So while in Utah, there was a
25:54
Speaker 1: close call where Elizabeth was almost identified at a public
25:57
Speaker 1: library when a detective confronted her and her two captors.
26:00
Speaker 1: This is what we were talking about earlier about how
26:02
Speaker 1: brazen this guy is. Yeah, that's it's it's ego. He's
26:07
Speaker 1: a prophet, he deserves seven wives. God talks to him,
26:11
Speaker 1: you know, and he's so brazen that he actually goes
26:15
Speaker 1: out in public with this girl, this fourteen year old
26:17
Speaker 1: girl that he has kidnapped. So there is an instance
26:20
Speaker 1: where they actually go to the public library in Salt
26:22
Speaker 1: Lake City. She's dressed in these religious robes. He has
26:25
Speaker 1: robes on. I believe his wife Wanda does too, but
26:27
Speaker 1: they cover her face so you can't tell that it's Elizabeth.
26:32
Speaker 1: And I think that they're at the library looking at
26:34
Speaker 1: maps because I think they're deciding somewhere else to go.
26:38
Speaker 1: There's a police detective at the library that sees them,
26:42
Speaker 1: and I'm sure he thinks they look suspicious, so he
26:47
Speaker 1: actually confronts them, talks to them, wants to see Elizabeth's face,
26:53
Speaker 1: probably knows about the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, and I don't
26:56
Speaker 1: know if he's like trying, you know, putting that together.
26:59
Speaker 1: And the guy, the kidnapper or the abductor says, you know,
27:05
Speaker 1: she can't remove her face covering because it's against our religion.
27:09
Speaker 1: And the only person that's ever allowed to see her
27:11
Speaker 1: face is me. I'm her father, and then her future husband.
27:14
Speaker 1: And the detective lets it go and walks away, So.
27:17
Speaker 2: So profits lie, Yeah, that was his wife cording to him.
27:23
Speaker 2: You know, I don't think the I don't know exactly.
27:28
Speaker 2: But I mean, yeah, freedom or religion and all that
27:30
Speaker 2: and being you know, separation of church and state and
27:33
Speaker 2: having protection. But that doesn't apply all the time.
27:38
Speaker 1: But what are you making that applicable to.
27:39
Speaker 2: Well, like he's investigating a crime right now, I get it.
27:45
Speaker 2: Maybe who was just going off a hunt. She didn't
27:47
Speaker 2: really have you know, a valid probable cause. Well yeah,
27:54
Speaker 2: or articable facts of suspicion or whatever it is, right,
27:58
Speaker 2: less than probable causes all he needs to investigate. But
28:03
Speaker 2: it not where you can't use religion all the time.
28:06
Speaker 2: So you're against my religion to put handcuffs on I mean,
28:08
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Yeah, it doesn't work like that.
28:10
Speaker 2: So I don't know, and I don't want to fault
28:12
Speaker 2: this cop, but he probably could have broke that justifiably.
28:17
Speaker 1: You're saying he was deterred because they use religion.
28:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, because then everyone's gonna wear a hat and be like, hey,
28:22
Speaker 2: it's against my religion. Yeah, you know, you can't have
28:24
Speaker 2: my fingerprints. Only my future or spouse is going to
28:27
Speaker 2: see my fingerprints, yeah, in my DNA. So I wonder
28:30
Speaker 2: if this cop had the ability legally with authority to
28:36
Speaker 2: do something about it or if he didn't.
28:39
Speaker 1: You know, here's the other question, because they do kind
28:41
Speaker 1: of like in this documentary, like a recreation of the
28:43
Speaker 1: three of them at the library, and like the detect
28:45
Speaker 1: of walks up and in that moment. And I don't
28:50
Speaker 1: want to be judgmental of Elizabeth Smart because I can't
28:53
Speaker 1: imagine what she endured, but in that moment, if she spoke.
28:56
Speaker 2: Up, yeah, that would have been the end of it.
28:58
Speaker 1: That would have been the end of it. I want
29:00
Speaker 1: her to do this she had to do with, say,
29:02
Speaker 1: these guys kidnapped me, I'm Elizabeth.
29:03
Speaker 2: Smart, and that cop would easily them immediately.
29:07
Speaker 1: It would have been over. That just goes to show you,
29:10
Speaker 1: I mean, she was fourteen, how much fear he instilled
29:14
Speaker 1: in her. Because they're in a public library. I don't
29:17
Speaker 1: think he I don't. I don't think he has a weaponary.
29:19
Speaker 2: Well, they've been in many public places. This is the
29:20
Speaker 2: only place that we just know of, because I mean,
29:22
Speaker 2: detective has a story.
29:24
Speaker 1: Just the three of them and a detective, a police
29:27
Speaker 1: detective is standing right in front of her, questioning the
29:30
Speaker 1: man who is her abductor, and she says nothing. And
29:36
Speaker 1: it's sad because that would have been the perfect opportunity
29:40
Speaker 1: for her just to.
29:40
Speaker 2: Speak soon after? Is this from her induction? Do we know?
29:45
Speaker 1: This is?
29:46
Speaker 2: Obviously nine months? Is the total?
29:47
Speaker 1: Nine months is the total? I don't know, Maybe this
29:49
Speaker 1: is like six months in or something.
29:50
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's deep in. Okay, So the detective wasn't
29:54
Speaker 2: in the interview or wasn't in this documentary, but it's known.
29:58
Speaker 2: And obviously the how do they know that this detective
30:01
Speaker 2: ran in the public library is because Elizabeth Smart later
30:04
Speaker 2: said something.
30:05
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure because once so it's not like.
30:07
Speaker 2: The detective made a report or anything.
30:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it just later came up that she
30:10
Speaker 1: probably said.
30:11
Speaker 2: You know, so we may not even know who the
30:13
Speaker 2: detective is.
30:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
30:15
Speaker 2: The detective knows, but he may not have come.
30:17
Speaker 1: Forward, right, so you know who knows?
30:19
Speaker 2: It's probably from her.
30:21
Speaker 1: Yeah. So because of this close call. Shortly after this,
30:26
Speaker 1: Mitchell and Barzi that's his wife, and Elizabeth decide to
30:31
Speaker 1: go to a camp in San Diego because I'm sure
30:33
Speaker 1: he got spooked because that was close, right. The detective
30:36
Speaker 1: comes up to him and questions him, wants to see
30:38
Speaker 1: her face.
30:39
Speaker 2: I can't even be safe in a public library anymore,
30:41
Speaker 2: we have to go out in the woods.
30:43
Speaker 1: So also this is also February of two thousand and three.
30:45
Speaker 1: This is when the Smart family takes it upon themselves
30:48
Speaker 1: to release the sketch of Brian Mitchell to the public,
30:51
Speaker 1: even though the police didn't want them to. Tips start
30:54
Speaker 1: flooding in, and Brian's brother in law is one of them.
30:57
Speaker 1: He claims Brian could have done this, and if he did,
31:00
Speaker 1: it was likely that Elizabeth was still alive. So his
31:04
Speaker 1: I believe it's his sister and brother in law reach
31:07
Speaker 1: out to the police because they recognize the sketch and
31:10
Speaker 1: say and they say he probably did that. They know
31:14
Speaker 1: he's probably not right, and he's living up in the
31:16
Speaker 1: mountains in a camp, and he's probably made it known
31:19
Speaker 1: that he thinks he's a prophet and that he wants
31:21
Speaker 1: to marry lots of young girls. So now they have
31:24
Speaker 1: a name.
31:26
Speaker 2: But no real like address or anything.
31:28
Speaker 1: And now they have photographs because I believe his sister
31:33
Speaker 1: provided photographs. I did photographs. So now they release it
31:37
Speaker 1: the photographs, actual photographs, not just the police sketch.
31:40
Speaker 2: But well, the police sketch is already out there, so
31:42
Speaker 2: they figure, well, right, so the damage is already done
31:44
Speaker 2: as far as they're concerned, if there was any yeah,
31:47
Speaker 2: by releasing this sketch. And so now they release real photos.
31:51
Speaker 1: Real photos. So now the public has real, actual photos
31:55
Speaker 1: of the alleged abductor what he looks like. Well, he
31:59
Speaker 1: is the abductor, he is the but at that time,
32:01
Speaker 1: I love it, but so they know what he looks
32:03
Speaker 1: like now. So soon after that, Elizabeth convinces her captors
32:06
Speaker 1: to go back to Salt Lake City. So this was
32:09
Speaker 1: actually very savvy and intelligent on her part. They were
32:12
Speaker 1: in San Diego, living off the land, and then they
32:16
Speaker 1: were talking. There were discussions of I guess he was saying, like,
32:19
Speaker 1: we could go to New York City, we could go
32:20
Speaker 1: to Boston. He was naming all these cities that they
32:22
Speaker 1: could go to. She becomes very frightened that she's going
32:26
Speaker 1: to end up even further away from her family, and
32:30
Speaker 1: so she tells him that God spoke to her and
32:34
Speaker 1: that they're supposed to go back to Salt Lake City
32:36
Speaker 1: and that she's supposed to follow him. She basically says
32:39
Speaker 1: she recognizes that he has such an ego that if
32:42
Speaker 1: she feeds into that, saying like I'm supposed to follow you.
32:45
Speaker 1: God told me I'm supposed to follow you, and you're
32:47
Speaker 1: supposed to go back to Salt Lake City. That's what
32:49
Speaker 1: God wants you to do. Then you know he fell
32:52
Speaker 1: for that, and so.
32:54
Speaker 2: That was really well that worked for her because I've
32:56
Speaker 2: read about this before where if you're being aw Let's
33:00
Speaker 2: say a male is attacking a female and or attempting
33:05
Speaker 2: to and then when the victim then tries to give
33:09
Speaker 2: in and make it like okay, I'll just go along
33:11
Speaker 2: with it so they're not less violent, and then maybe
33:13
Speaker 2: I can reach over and grab the knife, or I
33:15
Speaker 2: can run out the door or something right like get it.
33:17
Speaker 2: You try to de escalate it. That could make it
33:20
Speaker 2: worse because maybe this person is aggressive and they want
33:25
Speaker 2: it to be violent, they want them to be submissive
33:28
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. They don't want them to be
33:30
Speaker 2: a consenting adult, so it could make it worse. But
33:34
Speaker 2: in this case, it sounds like she was feeding his ego,
33:39
Speaker 2: not like she was just trying to appease him, but
33:42
Speaker 2: she was actually playing his game. So I just wanted
33:45
Speaker 2: to say that I remember reading that once long ago,
33:47
Speaker 2: where you could be it could be counterproductive. But in
33:52
Speaker 2: this case, he wasn't violent in the sense of wanting
33:54
Speaker 2: to overpower her. He was trying to make her his wife, right,
34:00
Speaker 2: prophetic four.
34:00
Speaker 1: Times a day.
34:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I didn't need to hear that.
34:04
Speaker 1: Well, so I would say he's pretty no, but I
34:07
Speaker 1: mean it's yeah anyway, I was just saying it worked
34:10
Speaker 1: for her, that did, yeses so Elizabeth. So they end
34:14
Speaker 1: up going back to the Salt Lake City area. So
34:16
Speaker 1: then in March twelfth of two thousand and three, Elizabeth
34:19
Speaker 1: is recognized in Sandy, Utah by two passerbys who noticed
34:22
Speaker 1: her with Mitchell and Barzi. So that's again how brazen
34:26
Speaker 1: he is that they're just they're literally just walking around
34:30
Speaker 1: on a sidewalk in public. But she has the robes on,
34:33
Speaker 1: and I believe she has a wig on, like a
34:35
Speaker 1: grown wig sunglasses or something.
34:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean not now, it looks like a disguise. Look, yeah,
34:42
Speaker 2: it's my religion to where old lady wigs and sunglasses.
34:46
Speaker 2: So I can imagine, like I remember that now, Yeah.
34:49
Speaker 1: That disguise did nothing but bring attention to her attention, right,
34:54
Speaker 1: So Elizabeth is dressed in a horrible disguise consisting of
34:57
Speaker 1: a cheap wig in sunglasses and she's terrified to real
35:00
Speaker 1: reveal her identity to police. So I believe there's two
35:03
Speaker 1: different couples that see them walking around and recognize how
35:07
Speaker 1: and call the police. The police stop them, she will
35:11
Speaker 1: not say who she is. Again, it's the same thing
35:14
Speaker 1: as like in the library, where I mean, this could
35:17
Speaker 1: be the end, Like you have a police officer standing
35:21
Speaker 1: in front of you asking you your name, I mean,
35:26
Speaker 1: and he's there to protect you.
35:27
Speaker 2: Well, nine months is a long time to go through
35:30
Speaker 2: what she did.
35:30
Speaker 1: So the fact that she still can't just divulge the information,
35:35
Speaker 1: say help me, these two crazy people who abducted me,
35:38
Speaker 1: Like she's still frozen, frozen and hesitant, doesn't want to
35:41
Speaker 1: say anything. And I make this mistake sometimes with Annabel,
35:46
Speaker 1: because Annabel can come off so confident and so mature,
35:52
Speaker 1: and sometimes I forget that she isn't even thirteen yet,
35:55
Speaker 1: and when you really think about it, that is so
35:57
Speaker 1: naive and young, and their brain really is and developed
36:00
Speaker 1: and they're very easily that's why.
36:03
Speaker 2: Kill your parents.
36:04
Speaker 1: And so even though there's two opportunities that are just
36:09
Speaker 1: clearly like, all you have to do is say I'm
36:11
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart and you'll be saved and your family's fine
36:14
Speaker 1: and you're fine. It doesn't even register, like she's still
36:19
Speaker 1: terrified of these people. Also, she does claim in the documentary,
36:24
Speaker 1: and this is actually very sad when I heard her
36:27
Speaker 1: say this, And this has to do with the religion
36:29
Speaker 1: aspect of LDS. So I want your opinion on this.
36:32
Speaker 2: Are you listening, I am listening.
36:34
Speaker 1: She says in the documentary that she grew up in
36:37
Speaker 1: a very strict Mormon home and that she was told
36:40
Speaker 1: from a very early age no sex before marriage. And
36:44
Speaker 1: we know that's preached right.
36:47
Speaker 2: It's yeah, sex.
36:48
Speaker 1: Right is bad. So she's claimed. She says that she
36:53
Speaker 1: did not understand the difference between rape and premarital sex,
36:57
Speaker 1: like there was no distinction ever made for them.
36:58
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, is she's saying this in the documentary today okay?
37:01
Speaker 2: So she's as an adult explaining yes, okay, And she.
37:04
Speaker 1: Is saying that there was never a distinction made in
37:07
Speaker 1: any kind of teachings between being raped and premarital sex.
37:12
Speaker 1: So in her mind she thought, maybe my parents don't
37:16
Speaker 1: want me back or don't want me to return because
37:19
Speaker 1: I had because she was raped, so she had premarital sex,
37:23
Speaker 1: and in her mind, there was she was not able
37:25
Speaker 1: to make the distinction. She just thought, I.
37:28
Speaker 2: Wonder if how much of that had to do with
37:31
Speaker 2: his words to her, if he said something like your
37:34
Speaker 2: parents don't want you anymore, You're now mine, like he
37:37
Speaker 2: started to plant these sess.
37:38
Speaker 1: She never said that. She made it like it was strictly.
37:42
Speaker 2: From that was her understanding.
37:43
Speaker 1: Her understanding and teachings, and that's.
37:46
Speaker 2: That's such unfortunate.
37:47
Speaker 1: She was told repeatedly the premarital sex is bad. So
37:51
Speaker 1: then she was very concerned that her parents would not
37:54
Speaker 1: want her back because of that. She first told police
37:58
Speaker 1: this is when the police show up in se Into, Utah,
38:00
Speaker 1: when they're walking around. She first told police that her
38:02
Speaker 1: name was Augustine, and she blurted out, I know who
38:06
Speaker 1: you think I am. You guys think I'm that Elizabeth
38:08
Speaker 1: Smart girl who ran away. When police put her in
38:11
Speaker 1: a separate car from Mitchell and Barzie, she began to cry.
38:15
Speaker 1: Sergeant Victor Quezada said, and he's in the documentary. We
38:20
Speaker 1: kept telling her, do this for your family, do this
38:22
Speaker 1: for yourself, do the right thing. We know you're Elizabeth Smart,
38:25
Speaker 1: so you had to try to convince her.
38:26
Speaker 2: She hadn't switch gears for nine months. Yeah, she had
38:29
Speaker 2: to have this facade, this poker face, you know, to
38:34
Speaker 2: the point where she was you know, she said let's
38:36
Speaker 2: go to Utah because God told me or whatever however
38:38
Speaker 2: she phrased it. But there might have been many other
38:41
Speaker 2: things she did to try to appease him and you know,
38:44
Speaker 2: de escalate the matter. And so, I mean for nine
38:48
Speaker 2: months she was playing this part of his wife, right,
38:52
Speaker 2: whether it be by force or just for her to
38:54
Speaker 2: try to you know, in survival mode. And so then
38:58
Speaker 2: all of a sudden cops appear, throw in a car,
39:01
Speaker 2: throwing a police station, and then she has to switch
39:03
Speaker 2: gears and all of a sudden change. Yeah, that would
39:07
Speaker 2: be tough.
39:08
Speaker 1: So when she's in so she separated away, she's in
39:11
Speaker 1: the cop car, he says to her, you know, do
39:14
Speaker 1: the right thing. Do this for yourself, do this for
39:16
Speaker 1: your family. We know you're Elizabeth smart. She finally responded
39:20
Speaker 1: and said, thou sayest. And I had to rewind it
39:23
Speaker 1: three times to try to understand what she was saying
39:28
Speaker 1: because I didn't understand thou sayest. Yeah it is I
39:31
Speaker 1: don't know.
39:31
Speaker 2: See she's probably learning language from him too. He's probably
39:34
Speaker 2: trying to speak all like sophisticated as a biblical type
39:38
Speaker 2: language English.
39:40
Speaker 1: So they said they just took that as a yes,
39:42
Speaker 1: They're like, sounds like a guest to us. So they
39:46
Speaker 1: drive her back to the police station. After police confirmed
39:49
Speaker 1: her identity, Mitchell and Barzie were arrested. And then they
39:53
Speaker 1: do they call her family. They say, we think we
39:55
Speaker 1: have Elizabeth. The dad talks about how you know, he
40:00
Speaker 1: went into. It shows a video. I actually start crying.
40:02
Speaker 1: It was so sad, the dada, so the dad reuniting
40:07
Speaker 1: with her because she was just sitting on a couch,
40:10
Speaker 1: you know, in a a you know, at a police station,
40:13
Speaker 1: and it showed a video, you know, because they record
40:16
Speaker 1: those rooms, and it showed him walking in. There was
40:19
Speaker 1: a little hesitation. I think he said something to the
40:21
Speaker 1: effect if he didn't recognize her, you know, he said,
40:23
Speaker 1: are you Elizabeth? Like are you my daughter? You know,
40:27
Speaker 1: and then they hug. But he said, I mean she
40:29
Speaker 1: looked different. Her hair was in braids, and you know,
40:32
Speaker 1: I mean she looked different. She probably had a different
40:34
Speaker 1: demeanor than nine months and so but it shows them
40:37
Speaker 1: reconnect and hug, and I don't know, I just start
40:40
Speaker 1: crying when I watch that because I thought, first of
40:42
Speaker 1: all the chances of a family after their child has
40:46
Speaker 1: been abducted of them getting her back later nine months
40:50
Speaker 1: later is insane. I don't know what the statistics are.
40:54
Speaker 1: I didn't look that up, but I would assume the
40:56
Speaker 1: statistics of that happening are extremely extremely low. That probably
41:02
Speaker 1: never happens. So to see them reunited was just, I
41:08
Speaker 1: don't know, it was really it was emotional. Mitchell finally
41:19
Speaker 1: went to trial in November of twenty ten, seven years later.
41:23
Speaker 1: I read that it took forever for him to go
41:25
Speaker 1: to trial because the judge would not deem him competent.
41:30
Speaker 1: And then I think prosecutors were very frustrated because they
41:32
Speaker 1: felt like he was just putting on this act of
41:35
Speaker 1: being this prophet.
41:36
Speaker 2: He's being difficult and being difficult. He remained in cussy
41:39
Speaker 2: the whole time, right, I believe so.
41:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he just never went to trial because they could.
41:43
Speaker 1: They just had a hard time. I guess they just
41:45
Speaker 1: kept deeming him incompetent to stand trial because he was,
41:49
Speaker 1: you know, and then the wife what's her name, Barzi, like,
41:51
Speaker 1: she was always singing hymns, and you know, they were
41:55
Speaker 1: just difficult and you know, preaching and talking about God,
42:00
Speaker 1: and you know.
42:01
Speaker 2: All the more reason to lock him up.
42:04
Speaker 1: According to court documents, his attorneys claimed he was not
42:06
Speaker 1: guilty by reason of insanity, but the court determined he
42:09
Speaker 1: was mentally competent to face trial. Finally, he was mentally competent,
42:14
Speaker 1: so seven years later he goes to trial. Elizabeth Bravely
42:17
Speaker 1: agreed to testify against him. One month later, a jury
42:21
Speaker 1: found Mitchell guilty of kidnapping and transporting a miner across
42:25
Speaker 1: state lines for sexual activity, and he was later sentenced
42:28
Speaker 1: to life in prison without the possibility of parole. What
42:31
Speaker 1: about Barsi so Wanda Barzi. In November of two thousand
42:35
Speaker 1: and nine, she reached a plea agreement admitting guilt to
42:39
Speaker 1: charges including kidnapping and transporting a miner across state lines.
42:43
Speaker 1: As part of the agreement, she agreed to assist prosecutors
42:47
Speaker 1: in their case against Brian David Mitchell, whom she had
42:50
Speaker 1: filed divorce from in two thousand and four. In return,
42:54
Speaker 1: Barzi received a fifteen year federal prison sentence. She was
42:58
Speaker 1: released from prison back in stie September of twenty eighteen,
43:02
Speaker 1: and I know when she came up for parole.
43:05
Speaker 2: She was released in twenty eighteen.
43:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was released. She came up for parole, and
43:09
Speaker 1: I believe that Elizabeth probably her family as well, spoke
43:13
Speaker 1: out against her being released on full no kidding, and
43:16
Speaker 1: said that they felt that she was still you know,
43:19
Speaker 1: would be harmful. Yeah to society, she has to be
43:23
Speaker 1: registered as a sex offender, right.
43:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, at least and so rich sure is a psycho.
43:30
Speaker 1: And a sex offender. But then in May of twenty
43:33
Speaker 1: twenty five.
43:34
Speaker 2: So this was just recently seven years after she was released.
43:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was arrested. She went and lived in like
43:40
Speaker 1: a I don't know what they're called, like a halfway house.
43:42
Speaker 2: Or so they have the family come and the victim,
43:45
Speaker 2: Elizabeth May herself, and she comes and they obviously advocate
43:50
Speaker 2: for this Barzi staying in locked up. They let her
43:54
Speaker 2: go anyway, So what could they have said, like, were
43:58
Speaker 2: you going to just release her any probably? I mean
44:02
Speaker 2: you have these people that they harmed and saying keep
44:06
Speaker 2: her in jail, and they're like nah, I mean what,
44:09
Speaker 2: so you were gonna let her go anyway? You're saying
44:11
Speaker 2: what Barzie did and said overcame, like what you know,
44:17
Speaker 2: overpowered what Elizabeth Smart and their family, her family said.
44:21
Speaker 2: I mean whomever.
44:22
Speaker 1: So then it may have twenty twenty.
44:24
Speaker 2: So I should never be on a parole board. No,
44:25
Speaker 2: you would just be like nope, Like nope, stay in
44:28
Speaker 2: jail next.
44:29
Speaker 1: In May of twenty twenty five, Barzie was arrested for
44:32
Speaker 1: violating parole after reportedly entering public parks, which she was
44:36
Speaker 1: prohibited from visiting due to her status as a registered
44:40
Speaker 1: sex offender.
44:41
Speaker 2: Oh that's why.
44:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, this reminds me of a different case.
44:46
Speaker 1: We haven't talked about it.
44:47
Speaker 2: But how is that where you thinking, Oh, you're living
44:51
Speaker 2: where you can't go to a public park.
44:53
Speaker 1: Well that's hard. And you know what else is hard?
44:55
Speaker 2: I don't care you're when you're registered.
44:57
Speaker 1: As a sex offender. Not only can you not go
44:58
Speaker 1: to public parks because kids are there, but you can't
45:00
Speaker 1: be within you know, you have to.
45:02
Speaker 2: Know where you are, yeah all the time. Right, you
45:04
Speaker 2: can't just go on a walk and like, you know, explore.
45:07
Speaker 1: No, and you're not allowed to be I don't know
45:08
Speaker 1: what it is, but you're not allowed to be so
45:10
Speaker 1: many feet within a.
45:11
Speaker 2: School, right, So it's like on hangover. Yeah, what's his name, Alan?
45:16
Speaker 1: Alan?
45:17
Speaker 2: Well he was like in front of the school. They
45:19
Speaker 2: were there to pick up the teacher. What character Bradley
45:22
Speaker 2: Cooper's character. He was like he was slouching, and he's
45:26
Speaker 2: like to be near a school.
45:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, because yeah, he's a registered sex That's why I know.
45:31
Speaker 2: But yeah, because they can't imagine, like you're at a
45:33
Speaker 2: work part lately, everyone's like, hey, let's go to lunch
45:35
Speaker 2: today for work, and then you get in your car
45:38
Speaker 2: and everyone drives to the park to have a picnic. Like, okay, guys,
45:40
Speaker 2: I can't be here, right, I have to go eat
45:42
Speaker 2: across the street.
45:44
Speaker 1: Well, and that's like, if you're a registered sex offender,
45:46
Speaker 1: I don't even know how you end up having a
45:49
Speaker 1: normal life or getting a job because where you have
45:51
Speaker 1: to find a job where you're not within.
45:54
Speaker 2: The day, you had to work at like an adult
45:56
Speaker 2: store or something they'll hire you.
45:59
Speaker 1: So Elizabeth, I'm smart. Where is she now? Twenty three
46:02
Speaker 1: years after her abduction. So after returning home, Elizabeth resumed
46:06
Speaker 1: her education and rolling in high school the following fall,
46:09
Speaker 1: and later earning a degree from BYU. You know, I
46:13
Speaker 1: wonder if, like, how do you go back to high school?
46:15
Speaker 1: She doesn't really just talk about that or I mean,
46:17
Speaker 1: there wasn't really a discussion of that. But she goes
46:19
Speaker 1: back home. You have to assimilate back into normal life.
46:21
Speaker 2: I simon it back to normal life in a lot
46:23
Speaker 2: of ways.
46:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, she has to reconnect with her family, her sister,
46:26
Speaker 1: she has brothers.
46:29
Speaker 2: Got her uncle that's the weird uncle.
46:32
Speaker 1: But then she has to go to high school. And
46:34
Speaker 1: you're Elizabeth Smart. You were abducted, and you know you
46:37
Speaker 1: were gone for nine months and now you just now
46:40
Speaker 1: you have to go to high school.
46:41
Speaker 2: And well, I'm sure there was a transition of some sorts.
46:45
Speaker 2: But she did a lot of things right then she
46:46
Speaker 2: served a mission for the church, she went to France,
46:51
Speaker 2: and then she got married in the temple and she
46:53
Speaker 2: has kids. Now, Yeah, so I mean she she assimilated.
46:57
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not to say it wasn't without difficulty,
47:00
Speaker 2: but she assimilated and she was doing all the right
47:02
Speaker 2: things to be back into living a normal life and
47:05
Speaker 2: being a normal you know, wife and mother and daughter.
47:09
Speaker 1: So today Elizabeth Smart is a married mother of three.
47:12
Speaker 1: She met her husband, Matthew Gilmore, in Paris, where she
47:16
Speaker 1: was serving as a missionary for the Church of Jesus
47:18
Speaker 1: Christ of Latter day Saints. This is in two thousand
47:20
Speaker 1: and nine. Gilmore, who was originally from Scotland, later said
47:24
Speaker 1: he was unaware of Smart's public story when they first
47:27
Speaker 1: crossed paths that worked out nicely.
47:29
Speaker 2: Well, you know that was probably that probably was what
47:33
Speaker 2: allowed them to have a normal courtship and stuff right.
47:38
Speaker 1: Reflecting on their relationship, he told People magazine in twenty twelve,
47:43
Speaker 1: the thing that attracted me the most to her at
47:46
Speaker 1: the beginning and now is how confident she is, especially
47:49
Speaker 1: considering everything that she has been through, he proposed. Later
47:53
Speaker 1: that same year, Following their wedding, the couple settled in
47:56
Speaker 1: Park City, Utah. What we were just in Park City,
47:59
Speaker 1: I mean we could have I did not know she
48:01
Speaker 1: resided there.
48:02
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think she wants you knocking her door.
48:04
Speaker 1: I could have asked her to come on the podcast.
48:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think she's like I got Netflix knocking
48:09
Speaker 2: on my door, lady, I don't need legally.
48:12
Speaker 1: Oh well, it's worth a shot. Following their wedding, the
48:15
Speaker 1: couple settled in Park City, Utah, and have since welcomed
48:18
Speaker 1: three children, daughters Chloe and Olivia, and son James. Speaking
48:23
Speaker 1: to People after her son's birth, Smart said, my children
48:26
Speaker 1: have brought so much happiness and joy. To me, they're
48:28
Speaker 1: the very definition of love. Elizabeth has shared her story
48:32
Speaker 1: in many documentaries published, and she's published her own books
48:36
Speaker 1: and appeared in ted talks and podcasts. See she goes on
48:39
Speaker 1: podcasts and I come.
48:39
Speaker 2: On legal Brunere we go. I think you should reach
48:42
Speaker 2: out to her. She created the or better yet the Uncle?
48:46
Speaker 1: You want the uncle to come on? Yeah, you need
48:48
Speaker 1: to watch his interview?
48:49
Speaker 2: Can you rethink your answers now, sir?
48:53
Speaker 1: She created the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, which seeks to bring hope, empowerment,
48:57
Speaker 1: and change in the fight against sex violence.
49:01
Speaker 2: So she leaned into it, she embraced it, and she
49:05
Speaker 2: didn't let it break her. She got back on track.
49:08
Speaker 2: She lived. She's living a full life, three kids, marriage, school, college, mission, everything,
49:16
Speaker 2: and then now be an advocate of many sorts missing persons.
49:21
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, And how do I go on a
49:24
Speaker 1: mission to Paris?
49:26
Speaker 2: You Paris? You were on a mission last week?
49:29
Speaker 1: Did you go to Paris?
49:31
Speaker 2: You came back with a purse?
49:32
Speaker 1: You served your mission?
49:34
Speaker 2: But you know, I remember there was a long ago,
49:40
Speaker 2: decade ago, lady escaped from a home where she was
49:44
Speaker 2: trapped for a number of years by some abductor and
49:47
Speaker 2: she escaped and called for help and someone called the
49:50
Speaker 2: police and blah blah blah. She turned out, she was
49:52
Speaker 2: chained up and all that stuff for I think ten
49:55
Speaker 2: twelve years or something crazy, And I remember Elizabeth Smart
50:00
Speaker 2: reaching out to her, hearing that she had reached out
50:03
Speaker 2: to So I'm sure there's much more in that. But
50:06
Speaker 2: how awesome is that? So she's that's very relatable, right,
50:10
Speaker 2: Like instead of some police officer telling you, like you'll
50:13
Speaker 2: be fine, we're saved now, like whatever you want to hear,
50:15
Speaker 2: they think you want to hear. But she comes in
50:17
Speaker 2: and says can share her experience and can be an
50:20
Speaker 2: example that you can get back to living exactly. And
50:24
Speaker 2: that's awesome.
50:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, any final thoughts?
50:28
Speaker 2: That wasn't That was my fun?
50:30
Speaker 1: I know, But do you have any other final.
50:32
Speaker 2: Another final thoughts?
50:33
Speaker 1: Yeah?
50:34
Speaker 2: No, but wait, what is.
50:35
Speaker 1: Your takeaway though? I would say, as a parent, I
50:37
Speaker 1: mean the fact that this is a lovely, nice Mormon
50:43
Speaker 1: family living in a very safe, very safe area of
50:48
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City where the church is abundant and most
50:53
Speaker 1: you know.
50:53
Speaker 2: People, The parents seem to be working and healthy, and
50:56
Speaker 2: the kids they have, you know, the very instagrammable family.
51:00
Speaker 1: They have children, and they live in a beautiful home
51:02
Speaker 1: and a beautiful neighborhood. It's scary to think that something
51:07
Speaker 1: like someone just comes in through a window.
51:10
Speaker 2: As simple as just They didn't need anything special, right.
51:13
Speaker 1: And that is concerning. I mean, do we.
51:18
Speaker 2: Have every night I go around and I lock all
51:21
Speaker 2: the doors and check everything.
51:22
Speaker 1: Oh wait, there's one more thing. Let me wait, one
51:25
Speaker 1: more thing that I forgot.
51:25
Speaker 2: Let's talk about this. You're welcome.
51:28
Speaker 1: No, I want to say thank you, But there's one
51:30
Speaker 1: more thing I want to say, because I just looked
51:32
Speaker 1: over and I saw my dog and it made me
51:34
Speaker 1: think of this.
51:35
Speaker 2: Oh the dog that's laying on I was back asleep. Yes,
51:37
Speaker 2: that dog that will do anything for a treat. Yes,
51:39
Speaker 2: and it's scared of vacuums and trash. Can no, wait,
51:42
Speaker 2: hold on, I'm sorry.
51:43
Speaker 1: I forgot to bring this up when we were talking
51:45
Speaker 1: about Elizabeth Smart. So, a couple of months into her abduction,
51:50
Speaker 1: her abductor tried to abduct her cousin. Oh really, yes,
51:56
Speaker 1: because his plan was to have seven wives, I believe.
52:00
Speaker 1: So he went to the house where the cousin lived.
52:04
Speaker 1: She was like eighteen or something. I believe verse seventeen eighteen.
52:08
Speaker 1: And he did the same thing where with Elizabeth Smart
52:11
Speaker 1: he got into the house because he pushed a chair
52:13
Speaker 1: up against the wall and then climbed in and cut
52:16
Speaker 1: the window and then climbed in that way. So he
52:19
Speaker 1: tried to do the same thing with Elizabeth's cousin.
52:21
Speaker 2: I never knew this.
52:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he went to the house, took the knife,
52:25
Speaker 1: pushed a chair up against the house, was trying to
52:27
Speaker 1: climb in through the screen door.
52:30
Speaker 2: They had a dog, and the dog.
52:33
Speaker 1: Barked and scared him away, and it made me think,
52:37
Speaker 1: I know you like to make fun of my dogs,
52:39
Speaker 1: but I have three dogs, and I tell you, if
52:41
Speaker 1: somebody comes through a window, they are going.
52:44
Speaker 2: To Yeah, one will too, will run, but.
52:47
Speaker 1: They're going to make noise. They're going to make noise.
52:50
Speaker 1: If someone tries to come into this house, they're going
52:51
Speaker 1: to make noise. And that's why I do think it's
52:54
Speaker 1: very important that everyone should go and adopt a dog.
52:56
Speaker 1: If you do not have a dog, this is my
52:58
Speaker 1: public service message. Go adopt a dog at your local shelter,
53:03
Speaker 1: and if someone tries to come through your window.
53:05
Speaker 2: Don't train the dog so they forget Every time someone
53:07
Speaker 2: comes in the house. That's how our dog is.
53:09
Speaker 1: No, he I wish I could take I'm gonna take
53:11
Speaker 1: a picture of him right now.
53:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks, he looks he's not on duty right now. Yes,
53:18
Speaker 2: for sure.
53:19
Speaker 1: He doesn't look very scary right now, but he can
53:22
Speaker 1: be when people come in the house. He is.
53:24
Speaker 2: He looks dead right now. He's very like back.
53:28
Speaker 1: He's very comfortable right now. All right, all right, thank
53:32
Speaker 1: you so much for listening to Legally Brunette. We appreciate you.
53:35
Speaker 1: As always. You can find us anywhere you listen to podcasts.
53:38
Speaker 1: All you have to do is search for legally Brunette,
53:40
Speaker 1: so please make sure to follow us, also leave a review,
53:44
Speaker 1: and if you're still listening to us under to teas,
53:47
Speaker 1: we do have an episode I believe every other week
53:50
Speaker 1: in two teas, So in order to hear all of
53:53
Speaker 1: our episodes, you're going to have to move over onto
53:55
Speaker 1: our own feed to listen to our weekly episodes because
53:59
Speaker 1: they're not all in to tease, So just a reminder
54:02
Speaker 1: about that. But thank you so much, guys, We appreciate you.
54:04
Speaker 2: Thank you