Latest / The Academy Presents podcast / Building a Real Estate Fund with Melanie McDaniel Part III

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Building a Real Estate Fund with Melanie McDaniel Part III · The Academy Presents podcast

• 0:03
  Did you know that 90 % of the world's millionaires
• 0:07
  invest in real estate? Well, I'm Angel with the
• 0:10
  Academy Presents Real Estate Investing Rocks
• 0:13
  and I'm here to help you if you want to go for
• 0:16
  your piece of that pie. Are you new? Are you
• 0:20
  new to this and you just don't know where to
• 0:22
  start? It's okay. Are you someone that has invested
• 0:27
  but you feel stuck, you feel like you've lost
• 0:29
  momentum, you don't know where to really head
• 0:31
  from here? Are you a seasoned real estate investor
• 0:35
  who is doing great but maybe you just want to
• 0:37
  hone a few skills here and there? This is the
• 0:40
  place for you. The Academy Presents Real Estate
• 0:43
  Investing Rocks podcast will connect you with
• 0:46
  industry experts so that you can save time, avoid
• 0:50
  costly mistakes, and begin living the life you've
• 0:54
  dreamed of all through real estate investing.
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  You're already taking the first step. just by
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  joining us here today. How much money can I make?
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  Well, this is obviously going to vary because
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  it depends on how you structure the deal, how
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  good you are at finding deals that provide a
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  return and your investor database. If they like
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  your fee structure or not, I mean, how much money
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  can you raise? How, you know, all of this matters.
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  It can be very lucrative. Some of the biggest
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  money people in our country are fund managers,
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  hedge fund managers, and like Ray Dalio and BlackRock
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  and all those guys. Those are outliers for sure.
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  But an average person running some funds, 100
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  million AUM or whatever, it's a very cozy, cozy
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  life. And if you're doing it right, you're not
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  just getting paid transactionally, you're getting
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  equity. Because isn't that what we're investors?
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  We want equity, we want the tax benefits. So
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  fees are fine. Fees keep the lights on. Fees
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  keep food on the table. But it's the equity and
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  the carrier, the promote, the splits. That's
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  what I'm after, really. So I'd like both sides,
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  because in a syndication, we ride both sides,
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  GP and LP. So when you're fun, can you do both?
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  Yes. OK. It's taking fees. I'm going to have
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  to get a drink. Can you pause it? Sorry. However,
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  I can pause it. Okay, y 'all may not know, but
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  I just had like a coughing fit, so we're good
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  now. What were we talking about? Fees? You were
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  talking about like the carry promote? Yes, yes,
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  yes. So when you, the fees, it's exactly like
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  a syndication. You have acquisition fees, you
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  have capital event fees, you have dispo fees,
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  you have asset management fees, fees, fees, fees,
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  everybody loves fees. No, they don't actually,
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  but you have to have fees to keep the lights
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  on, okay? So in a fund, typically you have at
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  least three ways to make money at a minimum.
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  Of course, you can make money other ways. As
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  the fund of funds, you could have an asset management
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  fee, which I will have. But it's not going to
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  be like a 2 % like you would on the syndication,
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  because there's not much to manage. So it wouldn't
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  be fair to charge the investors 2 % if all you're
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  doing is quarterly taking in financials and spitting
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  them out on your end, right? There's really not
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  a lot of management to be done. That's what I
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  love about a fund of funds, especially if it's
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  10 years long, because you make quite a bit of
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  money. So it might be a 1 % fee, or even a half
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  a percent, honestly. If you have a $25 million
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  fund, 1 % is $250 ,000 a year for not doing too
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  much. Right? So I could charge a half a percent
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  and still have a really nice payday. Then the
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  fund cost fee is a hard cost fee. I talked about
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  that earlier, that one percent that can be charged
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  to your fund, but it has it does not pay you.
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  You never get to line your pockets with that.
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  That is truly fund cost fees and any money that
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  isn't spent like I'm going to raise the one percent
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  or sorry. Yeah, two percent up front because
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  it's 10 years long up front. And that half a
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  million dollars is gonna pay for the fund for
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  10 years. And if we end up closing out in year
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  seven, I will return that money to the investors,
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  because that's just the fund cost fees. That's
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  not Melanie's bonus, okay? The asset management
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  fee is a manager fee. And then where the real
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  wealth is made is in the promote or the carry
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  or the split or the whatever the heck you wanna
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  call it. So in syndications, you might see a
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  70 -30, 75 -25, 80 -20, whatever. Same in a fund.
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  But it's a fund of funds. So the underlying guy
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  that's doing all the deals, he's taking his 70
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  -30. So I'm not going to go to my fund and take
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  another 70 -30, right? My fund max would be a
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  1 -10, a 1 % asset management fee, a 10 % promote,
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  maybe even a 5 % promote. Because again, it's
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  not that complicated. There's not a lot of hands
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  -on. I'm not doing a lot. Once the fund is open,
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  and we close it, that first year is all my work
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  is done in year one. I have to pick the right
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  deals, and I have to raise all the capital. I
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  close it, and then it's just steady as she goes
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  after that. So a 10 % promote maybe. I might
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  do mine where it's a nine prep. and then 1 %
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  catch up. So my investors, it is a 90 -10 split,
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  but my investors get their share first. I take
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  a catch up of the 1%, and then we split 90 -10
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  after that. So I don't know, might even be a
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  90 -5 -5, honestly. I'm not sure yet. I haven't
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  finalized everything. I need an advisor to look
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  at it and tell me, yes, that's appropriate, or
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  no, Melanie, it's your first big fund. Yeah,
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  you're taking way too much, something like that.
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  Who knows? The fund structuring is definitely
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  a skill that is, if you don't know how to do
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  it, you don't know. There's some really complicated
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  structures out there. There's like European waterfalls,
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  American waterfalls, there's splits, there's
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  whatever. But to answer your question, yes, there's
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  fees and then there's carry. Okay, so structure.
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  So you can make no money in a fund as well. We
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  were talking about how much can we make? It can
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  be very minimal. If you don't, believe you deserve
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  fees or you don't take enough carry, you're going
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  to work your booty off and make no money. That's
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  not fun. I'm kind of learning that lesson with
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  Freestyle Fund right now because I'm so anti
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  -fee that I'm not paying myself. So year one
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  was kind of challenging because it wasn't very,
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  it's not very motivating if your fund manager
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  is not making money. So you have to find that
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  balance where it's appealing for the investors.
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  but also the manager is making a living. How
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  you structure matters. So we talk about structure
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  a bit, not just for payment, but you have to
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  sell the thing. If I go to my investors and say,
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  hey, give me your money, we're going to go 50
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  -50 on this thing. I'm not going to have a single
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  investor. So how you sell it, how you sell yourself,
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  your thesis or your experience, all of that matters.
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  The value you bring matters. really good opportunities
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  for your fund, that's really where your value
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  comes in. Getting access to deals your investors
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  couldn't have had otherwise by your relationships
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  you build, that's huge. Being able to write a
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  larger check so you can go in and negotiate a
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  different share class than a typical investor,
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  that brings value. So you need to know where
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  you can bring value. Of course, the performance
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  of the fund matters. It needs to perform well
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  if you're going to make any money beyond a fee.
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  And then at the bottom there, you can make money
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  in a carry, promote your startup costs. I am
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  going to charge a 1 % fee just in startup costs.
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  So by $25 million fund, as soon as I have every
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  penny raised, I will have made $250 ,000. Oh,
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  sorry, that's acquisition fee. That would be
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  an acquisition fee for me. Startup cost is the
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  hard cost. So besides the 1 % or 2 % for the
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  life of the fund, I'm charging the fund $100
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  ,000 just to start up the thing. That's a hard
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  cost. That's legal docs and everything I talked
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  about, the LLCs, whatever. And if I don't spend
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  it all, that's fine. I'll send it back. But I
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  already have budgeted $100 ,000 just in the startup
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  costs. So when we close the fund, it's not like
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  I'm out 100 grand waiting to be paid back because
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  I did that on Freestyle Fund. I carried the load
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  of the funds expenses my first year of Freestyle
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  Fund. It's not fun. Not only did I not make money,
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  really, I mean, at the end of the day, at the
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  end of the year, we did make money, but I was
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  carrying the cost and not making money. And that's,
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  again, not fun. So that's my journey and my lessons.
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  Hopefully someone else doesn't make the same
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  lessons. You have to know your value and you
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  have to make some money. And you have to know
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  where all these costs are going to come in and
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  how to project them and write the pro forma.
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  capital event fees. I'm not going to have those
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  any divestitures or capital of it. I personally
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  don't like capital event fees. So, but you could
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  potentially charge that. Okay. How do we find
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  investors? How are we on time? Okay. Are we,
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  I don't know. I don't remember what time we started,
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  but I find this stuff like super interesting.
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  So, well, I, I think we're, I think I'll speed
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  it up here. So how do you find them? Syndication
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  investors are not the same as fund investors,
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  remember I said that, so it depends on if you
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  can advertise or not, but you can always go to
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  conferences, you can always go to networking,
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  you can always use your relationships, ask for
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  referrals, and maybe your partners can, or a
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  partner promoter or something, maybe they can,
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  you can bring someone like that into your team.
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  Pitch opportunities if your fund's big enough
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  and you have an opportunity to, to do a pitch
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  to a group, then that's one way tapping into
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  family offices, private equity groups, investment
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  clubs, country clubs. There's a lot of money
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  in there. There's so many ways. And then, of
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  course, if you can advertise, you can sell ads
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  or whatever. So personally, I am big on relationships
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  that worked really well up until I need to raise
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  $25 million. So now I've brought in two key partner
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  promoters, one She's just a big name in the space
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  and she's in this movement for empowering women.
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  And so our women founded women managed fund,
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  it fits her platform perfectly. She just wants
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  equity and she's going to open her database to
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  me. And then the other guy is a local Austin
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  promoter of sorts. He runs, he calls them supernova
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  dinners. They used to be called mansion dinners
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  where he puts accredited investors in a room
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  and for $10 ,000 he gets a caterer full bar and
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  30. ready and willing investors and you pay the
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  10K, you stand up, you give your pitch, everybody
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  eats and networks and hopefully some money comes
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  out of that. So he's my promoter partner because
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  he knows a lot of people. So these are just some
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  ideas. There are so many ways to meet investors.
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  Awesome. For me, fighting deals, that's to find
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  investors. Fighting deals, conferences, again,
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  the same people are at those conferences, again,
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  relationships, referrals. It's all about who
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  you know. Your network is your net worth. You
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  just have to know how to mine your network, because
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  everybody is already there, probably. I don't
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  look for deals online. If they are advertising,
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  they're probably not my fund that I want to invest
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  in. They are not in a high ticket coaching program.
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  I have huge skepticism. If somebody is selling
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  a program, I'm so skeptical of them. Not saying
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  they're all bad by any means at all, but if they're
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  really good at promote like a mastermind or a
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  coaching program and they're selling a high ticket
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  coaching program, how good are they at being
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  an operator? And I'm finding they're not. They're
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  not always the best at both. They might be a
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  really great trainer. but the deals are just
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  not living up to the standards of the training.
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  I don't know. I've been burned a few times. So
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  not saying that's always the case, but personally,
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  if they have a high ticket coaching program,
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  I already am skeptical. Track record matters.
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  Experience matters. If you're investing a fund
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  in a fund of funds, I would say multiple funds.
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  Even if someone's done 20 syndications and they
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  decide to start a fund, I'm Very, very careful
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  because running a fund is not the same thing
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  as, you know, doing one -off syndication deals
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  because they're raising money, raising money,
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  raising money, and they needed to deploy that
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  capital. And if they can't deploy it fast enough
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  and they're taking in money, they're going to
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  go and buy something that they have no business
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  buying because they feel like they need to spend
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  the money. So not saying you can't, but be super
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  skeptical and ask a lot more questions. I'm looking
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  for higher minimums. uh in funds so million minimum
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  10 million minimum like put me in those deals
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  those are the ones I want closed access meaning
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  invitation only you have to know these people
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  to even know that they're doing a fund and then
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  tips who don't advertise so we kind of talked
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  about that already and then yeah providing our
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  investors value by finding this deal and investing
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  either in something that has no access or you
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  can negotiate with a higher check So here's some
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  of the platforms I mentioned, VeraVest and Avestor.
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  They're kind of the done for you sort of platform.
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  InvestNext, Cashflow Portal. They're just a portal
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  that they can hold a pretty simple fund. NAV
• 13:47
  is the one I mentioned before that does the administration.
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  Juniper Square I'm working on. I've heard that
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  they do that. I haven't vetted them or haven't
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  even had a demo call with them yet, hopefully
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  sometime this week. Some sort of investor portal,
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  which could... already BNNAB or Juniper Square,
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  of course, Verivest and Avestor have their own
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  investor portals, and then the admin portal.
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  So these are all kind of overlapping in a way.
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  And one of the last questions, people, can they
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  do this as a side gig? I would say possibly,
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  but if you're going to do something really well,
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  I think you just need to do one thing really
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  well, and this requires focus. It's very, very
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  high risk in that it's just simply dealing with
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  other people's money and in a space that's regulated.
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  I just I personally feel like you need to be
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  all in. That's how I feel. Choose your partners
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  wisely because once you get married, you're married.
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  Or if you invest a bunch of money to launch a
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  big fund and one year in you hate everybody hates
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  each other and you want to shut down the fund.
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  Well, you've already spent all of the money getting
• 14:49
  it set up. So it's hard to just walk away from
• 14:52
  that, especially if it's like an ongoing evergreen
• 14:55
  fund. So choose your partners wisely. And then
• 14:58
  make sure you have really good advisors and managers
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  of the fund. Like if you're the manager, that's
• 15:06
  what your role should be if you're starting a
• 15:08
  fund. Or promoters and co -GPs, people that can
• 15:12
  help you. If you decide this is a side gig, then
• 15:15
  you need these people to help you. You probably
• 15:18
  shouldn't be managing a fund if it's a side gig,
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  but you can definitely help. But I feel like
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  it's an all -in sort of thing. So where do you
• 15:27
  get help? Your attorney team is going to be huge.
• 15:30
  They'll keep you out of trouble and within regulations.
• 15:34
  Some sort of mentor or a professional that's
• 15:37
  been there before you that can be a partner or
• 15:39
  potentially an advisor. Education, I mean, podcasts.
• 15:42
  I mentioned Marisu Rold. His is really good.
• 15:44
  Bridger Pennington, really good. Those are both
• 15:47
  on YouTube. Books or blogs, just... anything
• 15:51
  learning about funds. And you can learn about
• 15:53
  hedge funds or other types of funds. It will
• 15:55
  help you get a glimpse into real estate funds.
• 15:57
  Real estate is kind of specific, but it's more
• 15:59
  simple, I think, than a lot of the other funds.
• 16:02
  And then how to structure a fund is huge. Learn
• 16:06
  the lingo as well. Know what a promote is. Know
• 16:08
  what carry is. Know, you know, you want to know
• 16:12
  what you're talking about when you're talking
• 16:13
  to people and raising capital, especially if
• 16:15
  they're used to investing in funds. You want
• 16:17
  to know you that you have the right lingo. I
• 16:21
  provide consulting. If you want to use my link
• 16:26
  and want a phone call, I'm happy to talk to you.
• 16:29
  I don't want to necessarily, this is not like
• 16:32
  my end all be all. I don't want to do consultation,
• 16:36
  but I also don't want to talk to you for free.
• 16:41
  So to honor my time, I've freed up a few hours
• 16:44
  on my calendar a week where I will talk to people,
• 16:47
  but You're going to pay for my time. That's all
• 16:50
  I ask. It's not that much. I think for the value
• 16:53
  I can bring, but also know that I only know what
• 16:55
  I know and I've only gone on my journey so far.
• 16:58
  I'm probably only one or two steps ahead of you.
• 17:00
  So happy to help if, if I can. So there's that
• 17:03
  link again, my website and that's it. I'm done.
• 17:08
  Wow. Well, that was amazing and so much information
• 17:11
  and you've come a long way. Like, wow. I've been
• 17:17
  lucky enough to, like, kind of see the whole
• 17:18
  thing. So I credit that to COVID, as weird as
• 17:24
  that is, because it opened up so much of the
• 17:27
  landscape. It really, like you said, I mean,
• 17:31
  I wouldn't have met half of the people I met,
• 17:32
  even a quarter of the people I met, if I was
• 17:35
  stuck in just Wichita Falls. I'm two hours from
• 17:37
  DFW. I'm two hours from Oklahoma City. I mean,
• 17:40
  there's nothing here. So it was huge for us.
• 17:44
  It was huge. It definitely, even though I felt
• 17:47
  like 2020 was just the step back, it was definitely
• 17:51
  a leap forward in the long run for sure. And
• 17:54
  I've only built on those relationships and then
• 17:56
  built even more since then. No, absolutely. And
• 18:00
  guys, if you're listening to this and you should
• 18:02
  be, and you're thinking about a fun man, don't
• 18:05
  do it alone. And I like what she was saying about
• 18:08
  the side gig thing. Like I think about even syndication.
• 18:13
  There's a big difference between someone that's
• 18:15
  full -time real estate on a GP team and someone
• 18:18
  that has a job. I'm not saying one is more effective
• 18:21
  than the other, but the amount of time they have
• 18:23
  to hop on phone calls and devote to the team
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  are vastly different. So just kind of keep that
• 18:29
  in mind. You may think, hey, I can do a fund
• 18:31
  on the side, but if this work week you're putting
• 18:34
  in 60 or 70 hours at your job, how much time
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  do you realistically have to manage your fund?
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  Just keep those things in mind because there
• 18:44
  are absolutely those weeks where you're working
• 18:46
  on somebody else's dream. That means you're putting
• 18:48
  80 hours in this week. So just keep those things
• 18:51
  in mind before you think you can side gig it
• 18:52
  without a bunch of help. And then be prepared
• 18:56
  to pay for the help that you have to employ if
• 18:57
  you are going to side gig it because they've
• 19:00
  got to be able to cover. I almost came out. They
• 19:03
  got to be able to see why you. when you're not
• 19:07
  available, because there will be times when your
• 19:09
  work requires you to not be available. So just
• 19:13
  keep those things in mind. And that there is
• 19:15
  like those of us that are on the team are going
• 19:17
  to see that there's a vast difference between
• 19:19
  the amount of time we can put into something
• 19:21
  and the amount of time you can put into having
• 19:22
  a W -2. I'm not saying we don't look down on
• 19:25
  you. We don't think badly of you. We just know
• 19:27
  that we have more time than you. So and also
• 19:30
  on that front, like. if you are the full -time
• 19:33
  person and you have part -time people or you
• 19:36
  have a side gig and you have full -time partners,
• 19:38
  that can cause some tension, by the way. I'm
• 19:41
  only speaking from experience on that one. Yeah,
• 19:44
  no, and I think part of that too is just because
• 19:46
  you can't come to all the meetings. And so we
• 19:49
  may be all, we may all be able to meet at 2 p
• 19:51
  .m. Central. and you can't come on till 5 p .m.
• 19:55
  Central or 5 30 p .m. Central when you're done
• 19:56
  with your day and at that point in time we're
• 19:59
  like hey we've done our time we're ready to hang
• 20:01
  out with our family or we have other obligations
• 20:04
  maybe our kids are in extracurriculars or maybe
• 20:06
  you don't have kids you have your own extracurriculars
• 20:08
  you want to go hang out with your friends somewhere
• 20:10
  else I mean those are realities and you just
• 20:13
  have to keep that in mind and I wouldn't say
• 20:15
  you want to get on a team of nothing but W tours
• 20:16
  because that would be super hard too but make
• 20:21
  sure that you really know the people that you're
• 20:23
  getting involved with if they're all full time
• 20:25
  and you're not because you don't you don't want
• 20:28
  there to be any sore feelings because there can
• 20:30
  be yeah but other than that Melanie thank you
• 20:34
  for being here and thank you for sharing and
• 20:37
  I'm just so happy that you're part of our circle
• 20:39
  and that we have all gotten to grow together
• 20:41
  because it's been it's been super neat those
• 20:43
  of us that really became that family in 2020
• 20:46
  like we've all come so far And it's been really
• 20:50
  neat to see that we've all kind of niche down
• 20:52
  into our own stuff. But we've all leveled up
• 20:54
  and we've all grown and it's just. I would say,
• 20:58
  yes, we've all not because there are some people
• 21:02
  that fell off the face of the earth. But the
• 21:05
  ones of us that are still here, yes, it's definitely
• 21:07
  fun to see where everybody's gone. And it's a
• 21:10
  really fun community. There's a lot of familiar
• 21:13
  faces. Now there are people that this is not
• 21:17
  for everybody. No. Can anybody do it if you're
• 21:20
  going to commit to it? But it is not for everybody.
• 21:23
  There's definitely a line there. I don't know
• 21:27
  if it's like everything else. I don't know if
• 21:28
  it's an 80 -20 split where you got all these
• 21:31
  people that come in, 80 % of them fall off. Because
• 21:33
  I think we're the 20 percenters to begin with.
• 21:36
  But there's some fall off. It's OK. Yeah. Like
• 21:45
  it or family obligations or you just don't have
• 21:47
  a choice. You have to have that job and then
• 21:49
  you don't have time to do the entrepreneurial
• 21:51
  thing and whatever it is. But yeah, happy to
• 21:53
  be part of your crew. Awesome. Well guys, remember
• 21:57
  there's tons over here. If this is where you
• 21:59
  want to be, this is where you want to be. That's
• 22:01
  fine. But consider getting that VIP subscription
• 22:04
  upgrade because we would love to have you on
• 22:06
  the live side. We have a lot of fun over there
• 22:07
  too. But until next time.