Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 773: How to Get Hunting Permission in 2024 and Beyond with Spencer Neuharth

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Ep. 773: How to Get Hunting Permission in 2024 and Beyond with Spencer Neuharth · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the whitetail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven versatile
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week, on
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: the show, we are discussing the increasing challenges of finding
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: free hunting permission in these days and specific strategies for
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: still being able to gain that access with our guest
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Spencer Newhart. All right, welcome back to the Wired Hunt podcast,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: brought to you by first Light and their Camo for
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Conservation initiative. Camo for Conservation is a program in which
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: a portion of every sale of first Light Specter Camo
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: pattern portion those sales goes to support the National Dear Association.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Love it and I love our topic and our guest
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: today on the podcast because we're talking about access. We
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: started this little mini series last week we talked about leases,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: and now today we are talking about getting hunting permission,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: free permission access to places to hunt, regardless of how
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: much money and what kind of resources you have available
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: to you. And I think this is obviously a very
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: very important topic It's something that I have been working
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: on for a whole lot of years trying to figure
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: out how to do this, and I think the general
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: consensus that most people are reaching now is that it's
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: getting harder. You know, when I started really getting into
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: this fifteen twenty years ago, the trying to gain permission
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: for myself, it was a lot harder then than it
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: was fifty years ago. And that trend continues as I think,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: you know, just natural things are happening, there is high
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: demand for places to hunt, and when there's more people
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: all trying to find places to hunt in those increasingly rare, open,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: undeveloped landscapes where you can hunt. So demand is going up,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: supply is going down. Right, You're going to have challenges there.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: So that is inevitable in our world, and this is
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: not going to change likely, So we need to continue
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: to find ways to get better at this, get creative
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: with this, have a plan in place to make sure
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: that we can still have locations to hunt. Of course,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: we've got public land which we are so so fortunate
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: to have access to, and that continues to be an
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: incredible resource for US deer hunters and any kind of
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: hunter or angler but man, still there's something to be
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: said about finding a piece of private land that you
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: can get access to. You can stumble onto or find
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: or work really hard to get access to some great
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: stuff in this kind of way. So that's the plans.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: We are going to break down specific strategies, specific tactics,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: processes you can put in place to gain hunting permission.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: And my guest is my pale and permission extraordinaire, Spencer Newharth.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: You might remember him as a longtime co host of
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: mine and he ran our ret Fresh radio series for
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: many many years here at Wired to Hunt. He now
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: hosts the Meat Eater Trivia podcast, so he's still in
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: the media to universe. He's still in my world. We
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: just haven't got to hear from him as often here
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: on Wired Hunt. So I'm excited to have him back.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: And he's a guy who's kind of specialized in getting
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: permission and doing it in a number of different ways.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: So that's what I'm excited about in this particular chat
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: because he can give us really good ideas on how
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: to assess the quality of a piece of property as
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: whether or not you should be interested in trying to
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: get access to it. He's got ideas about how to
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: get permission by knock it on doors. He's done it
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: by phone calls, he's done it through social media, and
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: he's done it through letter writing campaigns. Actually, so we
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: discuss all of those different approaches. So no matter if
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: you are a people person or not, if you are
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: terrified by the idea of going up to a stranger
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: or if you are excited by that idea, there's going
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: to be a tactic that you can try coming out
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: of this chat. So that's the plan. I want to
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: give you one quick heads up on something, and then
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: I want to give you a few of my own
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: thoughts on this before we get Spencer on the line. Now.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Number one quick kind of public service announcement. Last heck,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I don't even know when this was. I guess it
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: would have been early this winter. Maybe we dropped our
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: first new Wired to Hunt merchandise in years. I had
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: a new hat that's being sold on the Mediator store.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: It's got a really cool I should have been wearing
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: it for this one. But there's a really cool deer
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: across the front and it says Wired Hunt on the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: side over there. Well, we're almost out of them. We're
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: almost completely sold out, so if you want to get
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: one of the last handful of wired Hunt hats on
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: this run, heading over to the meat eater dot com
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: or there's actually a link in the description for this
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: podcast today, so you can click that. I do not
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: know if we're gonna have another run of these. I
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: do not know if there will be more, if there
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: will be different colors next time, if there will be
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: different styles, No idea yet. I think it's it's probably
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: gonna be determined on whether or not we sell out
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: of these, which it seems like we're going to. And
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: if that's the case, hopefully they will be support to
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: get some new stuff. But get these while they last,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: because I just don't know what's coming next. So that's
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the first heads up. Wired Hunt Hats are nearing zero
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: check them out now. And that's I guess that's really it.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: There are two other things I suppose worth noting. The
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Meat Eater Live Tour is depending on when you're listening
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: to this. I think it's kicking off very very soon.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: So if you are in the West part of the
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: United States, that's where the Mediator Live Tour is this year.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Heading over to the media dot com to get more
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: details on that. And then finally there's a new thing
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: that Mediator's launching called meat Eater Experiences. This is going
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: to be an opportunity for folks to join the Mediator crew,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: people like Steve Jannis Cal myself and Tony even on
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: fishing or hunting trips. I'll let you get into all
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the details over on the website if that's something that
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: you are intrigued by. But that's the thing meat Eater Experiences,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: that is available to learn all about at the meat
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: eater dot com as well. So that is it for
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: housekeeping and updates. Now let's talk a little bit about permission,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: and I just want to give you a few of
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: my thoughts, you know, from my own experience before we
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: get Spencer on here. And I think the biggest thing
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: and we do talk about this a little bit, but
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I want to emphasize here at the beginning, is that
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: getting hunting permission in twenty twenty four or twenty twenty five,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: twenty six, twenty seven, whenever it is that you're listening
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: to this, it is really a numbers game. It's going
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: to come down to how much effort are you willing
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: to put into this. How hard are you willing to
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: work at this? How many attempts are you going to have? Right?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: How many swings at the ball? If you want to
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: hit home runs? Right, you're not gonna him every time.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: You're not gonna him one out every ten times. Probably right.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: You need to try over and over and over and
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: over again and not be disheartened when you get a
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: bunch of notes, because you are going to get a
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: lot of nos, whether you're knocking on doors, whether you're
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: sending letters, whether you are asking friends and family members
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: in random conversations, whenever you find out somebody owns land. Right,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: we're asking a lot, if you think about it, asking
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: for someone to let us, maybe we're random strangers, let
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: us have free hunting access to their hard earned land,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: to a resource that they've put sweat, money, tears into maybe,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: and then expect you know, hey, we just think we
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: should be able to walk out there and use their thing.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: That's a big ask. So we should not be surprised
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: that people are hesitant, that people are unsure, that people
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: have reservations about that, or the fact that they just
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: don't want you using their stuff when they've got other
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: people they know that already do. So like we're taking
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: a flyer like this is a moonshot right out the gate.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Don't be surprised when your moonshot does not land on
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: the moon every time. Okay, that's a big thing. I
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: think if we go into this with the wrong expectations,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: we can be beat down quickly, get depressed by it
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: and quit. That will not lead to getting hunting permission.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: You got to go into this knowing it's going to
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: be ninety six percent nos. And every time you get
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: one of those nose, rather than looking at that as ah, crap,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: this sucks. I got another no. I would encourage you
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: to instead, every time you get a no, think to yourself,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: all right, I'm one step closer to that. Yes, because
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I've checked another no off the list. We're getting closer.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: We're getting closer. So actually that's good news because you
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: are closer to what you want. Keep that in mind
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: throughout this process. Number two and again, this is something
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: that Spencer brings up, and Spencer uses this to his
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: advantage as well. But I want to kind of sign
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: off on it, I guess as someone who agrees with him,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: And that is the fact that you know you should
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: always be looking for hunting permission, and by that I mean, like,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: have this thing going on in the back of your
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: mind in which you are always lighting up and paying
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: attention when you happen to hear of an opportunity, when
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: you happen to hear someone who owns land, When you
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: happen to hear someone who has a great aunt who
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: lives on eighty acres, When you happen to hear of
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: a cowork who mentions the fact that they grew up
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: on a family farm. But you know now nobody goes
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: back there anymore. When you hear anything like that, when
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: you hear that your neighbor just bought a new house
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: on ten acres, and you know they don't hunt anytime
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: there's that possibility, Like you hear of land and it
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: sounds like, well, maybe it's not getting hunted, or maybe
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: you just don't know. It's worth asking, It's worth having
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: those conversations. It's always worth throwing it out there. You know.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Let's say your buddy, like as just said, buddy buys
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: a new house, it's on ten acres, it's back in
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: the woods. He talks about. Man, it's awesome. You know,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: been seeing deer behind the house, YadA, YadA, YadA, And
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden you're thinking, Hm, ten acres,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: that's not nothing. He doesn't hunt, can't hurt. Hey, man,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: you know you know I'm in a hunting I lost
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: two spots this past year. What do you think about
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: me ever going out there and bow hunting, you know,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: a few weekends. If you do those little things, if
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: you ask those questions throughout a year to lots of
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: different people in natural ways when they naturally come up,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: if you're asking, if you're constantly asking around, if your
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: aunts and uncles and grandparents and buddies all know that
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: you're always asking for folks like, hey, is there maybe
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: a chance I could hunt there? If they all know that,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: then when opportunities do arise, when your aunt here's from
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: her friend, like, oh yeah, I used to have guys
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: a hunt of my spot, but they they were jerks
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: and I kicked them off. All of a sudden, your
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: aunt's going to know, well, I know that Joe is
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: always looking for places, and that sounds like this place
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: is open. I should get a hold of my nephew
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Joe and let them know, Like, make sure the world
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: knows of your intent and your interest. If you do that,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: it's amazing how the world will present you opportunities. All right,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: So those are two big things I want you to
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: think about. This is a numbers game, and you always
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: need to be like sending out your hopes and desires
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: when it comes to hunting access because you never know
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: when it's going to work. Like you're throwing spaghetti at
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: the wall, and you never know when it's going to
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: stick or what's going to stick. But nothing will stick
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: if you're not constant only throwing spaghetti. All right, So
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: there's your unique permissions analogy of the day. Finally, I
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: would suggest you think about ways that you can provide
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: value to landowners because right we know that landowners can
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: provide us value because we don't own land and we're
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: looking to use their land. So they have something we want.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: What do we have that they might want? What can
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: we provide? How can we give back to them, because
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: as I mentioned earlier, we're asking a lot of them,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: it's reasonable to think that they might ask something of us.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: My buddy Doug Duran has a great program and a
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: great example of one way to think about this. So
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Doug has started this thing called Sharing the Land, in
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: which he is trying to connect landowners who have work
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: that they want done, conservation work, habitat work, farm projects
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: that they need done on their land. He wants to
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: connect people like that who have a demand for help
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: with access seekers, hunters, or anybody else who wants access
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: to private land to hunt or bird or fish or
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: something like that. He's got those people who need land
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: and who have able bodies and the willingness to help,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: and he's trying to help connect these folks and find
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: ways that we can find win win situations where you know,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: somebody who wants permission to hunt can go and be
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: connected with a landowner, and this landowner needs help tear
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: down fences or planting cover crops or removing invasive species,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: something like that. He needs workers, he needs helpers, and
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: then you can find this hunter who wants to hunt
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: their land in exchange for doing some of that work,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: for putting in an investment of conservation effort. By helping
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: out in the landscape, you then get access to hunt.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: It really cool program. You can learn more about it
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: at Sharingthland dot com. But you know, if the pieces
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: of permission that Doug has listed on his site, which
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: he does have you know landowners who are looking for people. Now,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: if there's not something there in your area, think about
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: taking that same concept and that same idea and applying
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: it wherever you live. So think about people maybe that
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe you do know some farmers who need
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: some help, or who you know are pressed for time,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: or who you know have talked about this problem and
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: that problem and this project they wish they could get to.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Why don't you offer up your services. Why don't you say, Hey,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: you know, I've been doing a lot of work on
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know, understanding soil health, or I've been I
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: don't know as a landscaper in high school or college.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty good at digging holes. Whatever it is that
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: you can offer up, offer to help, offer to do
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: work on the farm, offer to take something off their
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: plate that they don't want on there, and demonstrate that
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: you can bring value to the table. If you can
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: do that, you are much more likely to be able
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: to get hunting access and permission. And I think you'll
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: be more invested in the process too, and maybe even
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: appreciate it all that much more. That is my final
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: thought here. I will give you a couple more suggestions
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: if you want to dive deeper into this topic of
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: gaining and finding hunting access. Number one, you can go
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: back and listen to last week's episode in which we
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: focused on the kind of pay to hunt way, which
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: is hunting lease hate and we love them. They are
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: a thing now that are becoming more and more of
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: an option people are turning to, and I want to
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: make sure we'd talk about how to do that the
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: smartest way. So that's a discussion you might want to
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: go listen to. We also have a lot of articles
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: on the Mediator website about this topic, and I want
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: to give you three specific examples that you can go
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: look up now and read if you want more reading.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: So we've got one from Tony called why Spring is
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: the best time to get deer hunting permission. You can
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: go search that title and find that and read it.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Another one by me just titled how to find hunting
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: permission that breaks down my personal process. Another one by
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Tony called tips for finding a fresh white tail hunting
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: spot right now. So check those three out if you
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: want more on this topic. But before we do anything
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: like that, before any googling or searching or heading on
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: over to your web browser. Right now, we have a
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: very thorough, in depth discussion about how to gain deer
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: hunting permission in twenty twenty four and in these changing
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: times moving forward, and my guest Spencer Newhart is gonna
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: help us take it from here. All right back with
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: me again for the first time I think since he
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: walked out on me, like like a groom left at
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the left at the aisle by the bride, just walked
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: right out of my life. Spencer Newhart, Welcome back to
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: the show, buddy.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: Thanks Marcus. It's fun. You should just ask me back
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: more often. It's not as though I'm like turning down.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: It's to be unwired to hunt. I feel like you
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: walked out on me as well, like I've tried to
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: rekindle this and it just hasn't happened.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I prefer the way that I positioned it the
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: first time. But but well, we'll just move forward from here.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Sure water under the bridge, no crown over spilt milk.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I I'm glad to be chit chatting with you again
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: and talking white tails, which do you get to do
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: very often there at HQ or you kind of hide
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: that part of you.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's it's it's uncommon to get to talk
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: white tails. And when I am talking white tales, it
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: feels like it feels like it's in defense of white
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: tails and white tail hunters. Folks in this studio tend
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: to have a very prickly attitude about hunters who sit
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: in tree stands or like to hunt America's most popular
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: big game animal. So this, this will be a pleasant Uh,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: this would be a a pleasant podcast when it comes
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: to white tails, and different than what I'm used to lately.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, buddy, you're in the trust tree right now. You're
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: in a safe place. Yes, this is safe. You're with
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: your people. So the thing we're talking about today, and
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: the thing we've talked about for a couple of weeks now, Bud,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: is access. And I don't know if you've experienced this,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: but it seems like, you know, over the last well
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: not even just the last twenty thirty years, but even
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: this last five years, it seems like it's been getting
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: even more difficult to get access to places. And this
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: is a common thing. This is not news to anyone.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: People have been talking about this and complaining about this
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: for quite a while. But today I want to specifically
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: focus on permission, like free permission. We've talked about leases,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: We've talked about some other things, but today it's it's
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: can you still get free permission? Which it seems like
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: some people are starting to say no, like that's a
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: relic of the past, or at least a lot of
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: folks are starting to not want to do the things
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: maybe that required to get that. But you're a guy
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: that I know who still seems to be, you know,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: riding that horse. So I guess I wanted to press
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: you on some details around that today. Are you gamed
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: for that? Yeah?
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Happy to share. It's I would as far as if
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: I were to identify the strength of myself as a
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: whitetail hunter, I think finding places to hunt is one
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: of them. Yeah.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like watching you from Afar, I would
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: agree with that. That's been a thing that I thought
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: to myself, like, you've got it figured out, you don't.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: You don't have that? That what am I trying to say? Like,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I I feel a certain sense of reservations about like
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: just like going to knocking on doors, I don't like it.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I'll do it, I know I have to do it sometimes,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: but I've never been a big fan of it. Yeah,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: but I see you like, you know, run random place
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: in Wyoming and you've got half a day and boom,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: you've got a spot. So so that's why you're here.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: That's why I want to talk.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's get into it.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: To get to kind of set the stage up. Can
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: you fill us in your kind of like access history.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Have you been knocking on doors or sending letters and
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: getting permission for free from the get go, or what
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: has that evolution been like for you?
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it started when I was in high
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: school and I grew up in a family that deer
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: hunted but didn't turkey hunt. And where I grew up
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: in southeastern South Dakota, turkey habitat seems to be very fractured.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: And I feel like there's some states, maybe like a
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: Kentucky or an Illinois or a Georgia. You can look
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: at a piece of land from a road or from
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: like Aeriel, and if it has timber, it just seems
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: like it has turkeys. And that's not the case where
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: I grew up. And the place is that I had
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: always deer hunted, did not have turkeys, And so when
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: I was interested in turkey hunting. I sort of had
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: to strike out on my own and find places to hunt.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: And I guess that was the genesis of me knocking
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: on doors, calling landowners, sending letters, was trying to find
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: places to turkey hunt, and so that started, I don't know,
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: probably when I was like a junior in high school,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: and then when I went off to college. I went
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: to college, I was a little over an hour away
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: from home, and I still wanted to be able to
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: hunt weekdays, and it was a place that didn't have
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: hardly any public land. And so there again that was
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: like the next chapter. Okay, now I need to find
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: hunting permissions for deer because I'd like to hunt on
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: a Wednesday and I don't want to drive an hour
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: back home. So that that was the beginning of it
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: for me.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Do you remember what those early days were like, like
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: the first door you knocked on, or some of those
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: early interactions. Were you like Rico suave with a deep
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: baritone voice, like nailing it right out the get go,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: or did you struggle at first?
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: I know I struggled. It was especially hard for me
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: to talk to a stranger about it, and I think
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: my first interactions were with folks that I was familiar with,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: like somebody that I knew their dad because I went
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: to UH school with their kid, or someone who was
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: my math teacher in middle school. I started off with
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: like folks that I felt like were within my network.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: And if I did have to talk to a stranger,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: that was typically unsuccessful and and a thing that I
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: had to like hype myself up for a lot, and
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: often that wasn't enough either for for it to be
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: like easy for me to go ask somebody for permission.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: So the early days were much tougher. And I've now
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: realized as I've gotten older that hey, worst case scenario
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: is they're gonna say no, and that's okay, and that
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: happens a lot, and then you just move on. It's
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: it's never been the case, like on when you were
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: hunting in what was at Washington, d C. Where the
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: cops were called. That's unusual that that doesn't happen. You know,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: you might envision that the worst case scenario is that,
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: but the reality is it isn't. They're typically pretty pleasant
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: or they're not unpleasant experiences. And again they might say no,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: but that's.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, but it's it's not always, or at least from
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: my experience, it's not always rainbows and butterflies. Even when
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: they do say no, you haven't had the cops called him.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: But have you had anything weird happen or what's the
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: worst thing that you have had happened? You must have
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: been some kind of awkward situation or something over the years.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: The worst thing that I've had happened, Yeah, I would
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: guess it's like encountering somebody who is anti hunting, or
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: someone who feels like they have to go over the
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: top to tell me no, you know, like almost insulting
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: or something like that, and and that can be unpleasant.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: But nothing that's ever been like a disaster. And so
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: I guess. I guess the good news is if something
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: isn't sticking out to me as being like a really
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: bad scenario, then I think that says that bad things
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: don't happen all that often, I guess. And I feel
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: like I've contacted quite literally hundreds of landowners over the year,
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: and and you know, when it goes bad, it's not
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: all that bad. Yeah, I guess worst case scenario, nothing
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: nothing comes to mind for me.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: So I'll give you one of my worst case scenarios
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: other than the cop one. Yeah, one time I was
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: with and this was kind of I was just on
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: the sidelines for this one sort of. But I was
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: with a buddy and we were driving around southern Ohio
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: trying to find a place to hunt. And there were
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: sometimes when we were worried that both of us going
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: up there at once would kind of be like overwhelming,
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: like too many people asking for too much permission. So
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: for most of them, he would lead, or I would
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: we take turns, and so on this house he led,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: and he in particular had a belief, and there might
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: be truth to this that the more sketchy a looking
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: house it is, the better chance you have of getting
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: permission on the farm. Right, Because if you go to
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: like a really fancy, very expensive home and they've got
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: one hundred acres and you know, knock on that door,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: like for sure they bought the place because they want
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: to use it for themselves or whatever. But you might
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: be able to find like that very rundown, middle of
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: nowhere place where you know they're very okay with whatever.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: You know they're okay with it. They don't have a
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: bunch of people already there. They didn't buy this place
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: specifically because they wanted to kill huge giant bucks whatever
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: they've just been there. So his angle was like, we
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: seek out that kind of place. And so I just
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: remember this one particular place like it was you know,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: like missing windows, hadn't been painted in forty years. There's
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: every old tractor, every old car, every old bicycle that
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: this family had owned for fifty years in the lawn,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: goes up to the front door. A gentleman opens the
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: door in his underwear still and like a very stained
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: wife beater. And then my buddy, he asked him into
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: his house, and so you can't say no to that. Yeah,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: So then he goes into the house and I can't
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: see what's going on anymore. And so I'm sitting there saying, okay,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: like it looked like, you know, just like it just
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: kind of looked like the beginning of like one of
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: those movies where someone doesn't come out of the house.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems very cinematic.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, And so I just remember thinking like after ten minutes,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: like do I need to get up and go check?
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: And then after fifteen minutes, like do I need to
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: be worried? After like twenty minutes like I'm thinking, seriously, okay,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I should just go walk up there and like try
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: to you know, it's probably fine, they're probably in there
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: having coffee or talking, but I probably need to like
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: just check on the situation. So I just remember for
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: twenty minutes stressing about like what's going on, and then finally,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: right before I was about to go and get in there,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: they came back out and then I wasn't. I was
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: waved in, and then you know, from there it was fine.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: But you just find yourself in all sorts of kind
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: of interesting or awkward or strange situations. When did you
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: get permission? We did not get permission?
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Oh so what what was going on for that twenty minutes?
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Just want a chit chat?
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Okay?
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Like I found that a lot, like when you especially
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: a certain parts of the country that aren't as busy.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: I think, like, right, if you live far out there, yep,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: you don't have a lot of visitors. So sometimes we
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: would have people that just want to talk or like
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: they'll hear you out and then they tell you about
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Bob and their uncle who so and so, and like
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: before you know, you just never know where those conversations
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: are going to go. And I've always thought you never
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: rush yourself thought of it sure, Like one thing I've
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: learned over the years is like, if they want to chat,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: let them chat. Be polite, be respectful, Like you push
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: yourself on them in the first place, you know, don't
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: be rude pushing yourself out, and then at the same time,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: you never know what might happen. Like I've had situations
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: where they say no it first, but then they just
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: keep talking and keep talking and they get to know
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: you a little bit more, and you're there an hour
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: and you've told them your life story and they've told
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: you their life story, and by the end of it,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, you know what, Yeah, sure you could
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: hunt yep. So that's all a long winded way of
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: getting to what I really wanted to ask you about, Spencer,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: which is you've been through the ringer. You've done it
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: for many years since high school. Where have you landed?
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: I think I know, But where have you landed as
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: far as what you think is your preferred mode now
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: of getting permission?
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: My preferred mode? I think it is hardest to turn
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: me down in person if I am, like, you know,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: a person to person exchange at their front door or
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: something that seems to be where I have the most success.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: And if I were to like think about the ways
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: that I have the best odds of getting permission, I
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: would say, face to face are the best odds for me.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: At the bottom of the list is probably like the
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: most indirect, which would be probably letter writing. I send
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Facebook messages to folks if I can find a landowner
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: on Facebook. Those things have worked out for me, but
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: at a lower rate than face to face. And then
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: somewhere in between there would be making a phone call.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: That that's, you know, between face to face and between
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: sending a digital message or a or a physical letter
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: would be a phone call. So if if I'm local
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: to the area, I prefer to go talk to them.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: If that's not the case, I prefer to call them
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: on the phone. And in other situations I will send
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: them a Facebook message. And then in like very specific examples,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: I will shotgun out a bunch of letters to people
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: to which you know, I feel like the last time
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: I did that was a couple of years ago here
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: in Montana, and I think I sent out it was
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: like one hundred and eleven or one hundred and eighteen
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: letters something like that, and I think of that one eighteen,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: I had gotten three permissions where I got access to
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: hunt something, and I feel like I only heard back
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: from probably like ten to twenty people. And then the
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: other you know, that leaves about one hundred letters that
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: were just totally unanswered. And that's fine. And there's like
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: pros and cons to any approach. And the pro to
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: that was I could contact a ton of people at once.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: The con was that I was likely never going to
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: hear back. But it's just it's just one approach. I
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: don't put all my eggs in one Pacific basket, but
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: prefer face to face. But I'll try anything, all.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Right, I want to. I want to dig into all
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: of those. But you ended with the letter thing, and
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: the letter thing is something that I think you're kind
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: of known for a little bit that's a little bit
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: more unique. So that's not bad. Like you send out
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: one hundred and eighteen letters, you got three permissions, Like
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: I know the percentage rate isn't good, but you got
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: three new permissions like that, Like a lot of folks
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: would be stoked to get permission on three new properties
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: in a year. Yeh, what was the lift? Like how
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: long does it take you to send out one hundred
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: and eighteen letters? Are we talking like hours and hours
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: or days and days and days or is this like
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I put in four hours and I got three new properties.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, some parts of it, or like a grueling process
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: like finding one hundred and eighteen properties that you want
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: to hunt, that is a ton of time on on X.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I will like dedicate hours on a Saturday morning
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: to be on my computer and find places that I'd
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: be interested in hunting. You know, I will label those
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: with a very specific pin on on X I think
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I do like a purple X or whatever, like this
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: is a place I'm interested in, right, And then actually
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: writing the addresses down is another thing. Maybe at this
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: point with like AI, there's a quicker way to do this,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: and you could like mass produce some letterhead with the
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: addresses on it. You know as of like three years
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: ago that that wasn't the case for me. And so
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: you're spending a ton of hours just finding one hundred
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: and eighteen properties, and then you're spending a lot of
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: hours like writing somebody's address on a letter. Actually writing
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: the letter that probably took me a couple hours as well.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: And this that was the approach I took. They were
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: they weren't specific to landowners. In fact, I heard back
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: from a landowner who said that he didn't like how
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: he knew it was very impersonal because I started off
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: with dear landowner, which he had correctly identified that I
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: was reaching out to a ton of folks, and and
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: he didn't like that. And and you know, not that
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: I would have gotten permission if I would have put
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: like dear mark on it, but you know, that lowered
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: my odds as well, not making them personalized. And so
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: I think if I were to do it again, I
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: would probably go to a smaller list of landowners and
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: make them more personalized. I think that would of my odds.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: But as far as the the input into the thing,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: it's yeah, days of work to identify the properties, hours
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: of work to address the envelopes, and then it's it's
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: very quick beyond that to add the stamps and drop
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: them off to the post office. But it's again, it's
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: a thing you can do, like from your kitchen table
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: at home, which makes it valuable in its own way.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what's your criteria when you're looking at onyx to
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: choose these properties that you want to get access to
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: from afar, because like, there's a place that you've not
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: been able to see before. So what are you looking
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: for when you're going through that process.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: I think naturally folks are being inclined to pick out
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: the best deer hunting properties, which is what I did
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: as well when I started seeking properties in college. And
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: I remember like the first day I had to hype
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: myself out to go out and knock on doors. I
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: was picking out like the twenty five, you know, best
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: properties in the area, and I didn't get a single permission.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: And I look back on that now and I'm like, well, duh,
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: you know, if it looked that good, if it was
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: a manicured property, other folks who are already hunting it
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: either for themselves or or they have a neighbor or
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: a nephew or a cousin, whatever that may be. So
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: I'd lower my like criteria for a good deer property
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: if you were to grade them A, B, C, D.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: I'm almost never sending out letters for a's you know,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: B is more rare, But most commonly I'm looking for
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: properties that you would say, this is like a sea
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: on a school grading scale for how good it might
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: be for deer hunting, because I think less folks are
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: then asking that person hunt, it's less likely that they
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: hunt it themselves, and that's good for you if you're
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: looking for permission. The other thing is this is something
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: that's become more popular for me because I live in
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: a place that does have a lot of public land.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: Probably like thirty or forty percent of the time, I'm
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: asking a landowner if I can use their property to
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: backdoor a piece of public land that is otherwise very
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: difficult to get into. And I've had a lot of
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: success with that. It's a much lower ask for them,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: you know, and I make it very clear they're like,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: I'm not asking to hunt your place. I would just
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: be crossing your property on foot to get to the
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: public land that I am looking to hunt. And I've
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: even had like those situations turned into yeah, and if
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: you'd like to, you can also hunt on my side
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: of the fence. So that's that's the other thing. Sometimes
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: it's it's less about looking for the piece of private
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: land that you want to hunt and more about finding
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: the piece of private land that gets you to a
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: good piece of public land that others don't have access to.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: So that's that's you know, my evolution of asking for
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: permissions are looking for sea properties and looking for properties
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: that get me access to a piece of public And
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: then the other thing is if I do get a
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: yes from a landowner, that is very powerful locally forgetting
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: other permissions. I've had that that snowball a lot. I
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: had this happen in Wyoming where I went and asked
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: the landowner to hunt, and he had a few thousand
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: acres and then he said, well, my brother also owns,
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: you know, the neighboring farm, and you can hunt that place.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: And so immediately I unlocked, you know, a couple more
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: properties that way. And then I go talk to that
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: person's neighbor and I say, hey, you know, I'm around
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: here for a few days. I'm deer hunting. I'm from Montana,
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: and I actually got permission from your neighbor, Mark Kenyon,
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: to let me hunt, and I was wondering if I
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: could haunt your place as well. And that is sort
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: of me telling that landowner that their neighbor feels comfortable
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: with me being on their land, and and that like
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: really helps my success. You're significantly more likely to get
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: permission on a neighbor's land if their neighbor has also
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: let you hunt, and so that becomes like an all
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: hands on deck situation for me. If if I get
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: permission out of place, I'm now bugging all the neighbors
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: and whatever else is local. If I think that that
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: landowner's name is going to be recognized when I talk
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: to that.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Other person, Yeah, I've had some kind of a similar
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: thing happen, but with a no. So when whenever I
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: get a no on a random door knock, I always
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: end by asking them, Hey, you know, is there anybody
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: else in the area that you might think would be
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: more willing to allow someone like me to go out
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: there and bohunt? And if ever I get well, yeah,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: you should try Bill down the road like I always
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: go there, And then I can open with like the referral, like, hey,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: my name is Mark. You know Bob down the street
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: mentioned I was just talking to Bob. Bob mentioned I
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: should come, you know, check in with you about YadA YadA,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: YadA YadA, and so kind of implicitly there's a little
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: bit of a connection there too, Like anytime I feel
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: like you can make it seem like you will have
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: a connection to the community or like some kind of
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: reason to be there. Like if if I'm doing this locally,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, I live down on X Street. Can
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: I YadA YadA YadA? Or I know my buddy Ross
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: lives and hunts down on one hundred and fifteenth Street
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: or whatever? Can I Like I always lead with anything,
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: I kind of connect me to some kind of reference point.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: I guess what I'm looking for here, and that seems
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: to help some Yeah.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: It gives you a local tie that you may not
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: otherwise have. And like I said, I think it just
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: makes that landowner more comfortable if they know that another
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: landowner was comfortable enough to let you hunt.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now back to the letters. So you established how
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: you find all these properties. What's actually in that letter?
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: So I know you've used the generic missed dear landowner,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: which doesn't work as well. So you said you would
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: go more specific, more personable. What would you recommend including
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: in that letter now that you've learned a few tough lessons,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: but at the same time you've had success to.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I keep it one page for sure. I don't
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: want to go beyond that because I think it's less
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: likely that they'll finish the dang thing. In that case,
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: I'll open up and I'll tell them who I am.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: I don't say anything about my career because I've found
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: that in some cases that makes people more uncomfortable. I've
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: I've lost permission on like a farm in Wyoming to
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: haunt because we were filming one week in November one time,
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: and I had to get them to sign a film
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: release to allow us to like film on their piece
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: of land, which is something we have to go through
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: for we're filming a hunt rights, whether it's on public
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: land or private land, we have to have film releases side.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: And those are kind of intimidating documents, right, They're like
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: six pages, and it's it's a big land. It's a
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: big ask for that landowner. And so there was one
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: property where I used to have permission when I wasn't filming,
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: and then we came there to film one week in
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: November one time, and I lost permission to hunt that
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: place because it made them very uneasy having a cameraman around.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: And so I don't. I don't tell folks what I
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: do at all. That would be different. I think if
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: you had a more admirable career, if you were a
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: teacher or in the military, or if you were a
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: first responder, tell folks that that that you do that thing.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: I think that would up be odds of getting permission.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: So anyway, I tell folks who I am, I say
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: where I live. When it comes to saying where I live, Uh,
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: Bozeman has a certain reputation, So I don't say Boseman.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: We have like a sleeper community outside of Bozeman called Belgrade.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: I say I'm from Belgrade, Montana, and people won't recognize
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: that name, which is good in this case. Then they
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: assume it. It's like a small, uh, you know, a
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: small community. But Bozeman has a different reputation. That is,
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: if someone has like thoughts about that place, uh, you know,
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: they're probably negative. And so I don't say I'm from Bozeman.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: And again, if if you're I would think about that too.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: Probably every state, you know, certain communities have reputations. Certain
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: license plates have reputations. I lived in the biggest city
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: in South Dakota for a little while, that was Sue Falls,
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: and those people have license plates that have a one
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: on them, right. And you know, whenever you're out hunting
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: and you see somebody with a one license plate. So
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: you're like, you know that damn person or whatever. Yeah, exactly,
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: and you know it means nothing, but it does to
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: some people. And say I don't. I wouldn't say I'm
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: from Sioux Falls. I would say I grew up in
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: a small town called Menno, And so I'd think about that.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: How you're presenting you know, where you live, what your
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: career is. I think if you have children who are
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: interested in hunting, I think that's very powerful. I don't,
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: but if I did, if I had, you know, you know,
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: my twelve year old this year is hoping to get
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: his first year. I think that would make a landowner
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: far more willing to let you hunt. So I'll tell folks,
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: tell folks who I am. I'll then explain, you know,
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: why I'm reaching out to this person, because you never
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: get letters from strangers anymore, at least I don't, and
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: so you know, it's already kind of a unique experience
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: that they're getting a letter. And I'll tell them, you know,
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: I'm a deer hunter from Montana and I'd love to
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: come hunt this place this year. I actually drew a tag.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: I'll tell them, you know, when I plan to be
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: there and like for how many days. I think that's
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: very important. There's a difference in asking for hunting permission
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: for an entire season, which you know, if it's archery, uh,
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: that's like three months in some states. But if I
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: say I'm going to be there for this four day window, uh,
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: that's a very different ask than just asking for hunting
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: experience or hunting permission in general. I'll say that, you know,
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: I'm a very respectful hunter. I'm willing to provide like
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: land owner references if they're interested, which I think is
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: a a good message to send. But I've never had
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: anybody take me up on that in my entire life.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: It's sort of an empty gesture. I would totally do
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: it if someone's like, yeah, you know, if you could,
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: you know, give me a few landowners who whose ground
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: you've hunted before. But I think it's signaling to them
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: that that I am like comfortable, or that that I've
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: hunted private property in the past and I haven't had,
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: you know, bad experiences, And I'm willing to let you
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: talk to folks who would back that up. And so yeah,
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: I explain who I am, I explain why I'm sending
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: them this letter. I try to again explain more about
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: you know, my values and tell them that I will
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: provide references if they would like that. I'm usually I
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: don't think my letters message like send this message as well,
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: but in in person or on the phone, you know,
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: I tell them that, like it's a beautiful p like
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: is it deer hunter? You know, I would be stoked
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: to haunt this place. And and you know, growing up
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: around of a lot of landowners in a farming community,
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: I don't think often they're told that like, uh, you know,
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: this cornfield is a beautiful property, but in my eyes
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: it is I'm not lying when I say that, that's
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: you know, that's how I do feel about it. Yeah,
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: and then and then I thank them for their time
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: and and uh yeah, I try to keep it, keep
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: it one page.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Is your Facebook or social media message strategy or you know,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: actual like the letter that you include in that, Is
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: that in any way different or same spiel?
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: Uh yeah. If I'm if I'm reaching out to somebody
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: on Facebook messenger, that is very personal, right, you know,
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: it's like deer Cynthia, you know, uh, hey, I know
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: this is a weird message request, but I have a
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: deer tag four your area, you know, and I'll go
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: on to sort of give the same message that I
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: gave before, and I'll be very specific about the priece
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: of property that I'm referencing, because in a lot of
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: cases people own multiple properties, and so if you're not
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: direct about which one it is, when it's you know,
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: this many acres off this road, it just like invites
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: some confusion off the bat. So in that case, yeah,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: it's a lot more personal.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, So one more fop on the letter thing. I
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: guess I'm just curious about, like after you get the hit,
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: So you get the hits, you sign one hundred and eighteen,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: you get three yes's back they respond. My assumption is
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: that then you guys have a phone call or something,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: talk about some more details, you specify when you're gonna
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: come out there, and then you guys meet up in person.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Is that right? Or do you have these things different
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: than that.
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm always offering to meet up in person,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: and I leave them a lot of ways to get
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: a hold of me, you know. I give them my
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: phone number, tell them they can call me, or they
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: can text me. I give them my email, tell them
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: they can email me and then I give them my
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: address and if they want to write a letter back,
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: they can do that. In most cases, yeah, I will
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: meet up with the landowner and uh yeah, coordinate that way.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: There's there's a lot of coordinating that goes on. So
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: I can you know, shake their hand in person and
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: and maybe get a lay of the land if there
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: happens to be something confusing with with boundaries or whatever.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: But I I sort of, you know, leave it up
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: to them. I I I will love to meet in person,
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: but some landowners are are so you know, comfortable at
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: that point that they're like, uh okay, yeah, uh you know,
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: whenever you want to be okay, it sounds good. Another
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: thing when I am identifying properties, something I just thought
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: of that I do a lot is I look for
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: absentee landowners and so if I am if I'm hunting
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: in Wyoming, it is a huge bonus for me if
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: they have an OT of state address. I feel like
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: I've had more luck in those scenarios because I think
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: those people tend to be harder to track down, especially
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: if you're there in person, and and because my preference
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: is to knock on their door. Those are a lot
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: of cases where if the landowner lives in Iowa but
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: their property is in Montana, you know, this is one
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: of the only ways to reach them, and so I
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: think there's less folks bugging them for hunting permission in
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: that case. So I really like targeting absentee landowners.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: And you're saying that's for the letter strategy.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: Or phone calls or Facebook messages. Yeah, obviously I can't
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: knock on their door in those cases, but when it
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: comes to like an indirect way of reaching out, yeah,
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: I like absentee landowners a lot.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's pivot to the actual you have to talk
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: to a person strategy. So you already described how you
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: pick your properties, but is it different at all when
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: you are actually going to go up to the house, Like,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: do you in any way pick different properties when you
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: are somewhat local or you're going to be there at
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: some point and can show up in person, or are
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: you doing the same thing looking for C grade properties
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: looking for the stuff you said.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's almost always the same thing. And ideally
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: when it's an in person deal, the address like matches
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: the actual property itself, because then that probably means that
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: they're a farmer or that they actually work on the
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: land and if I swing by at a two pm
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: on a Wednesday, they're probably home. But if that landowner
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: has a suburban address, you know, it's more likely that
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: they work in nine to five and they're going to
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: be harder to get a hold of. So yeah, I
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: hope that their home is on the property and that
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: makes it much easier to get a hold of them.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: All Right, So you're local, you're in Wyoming or South
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Dakota or whatever you have found to see grade list.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: What's your spiel? Some folks like to go up there
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: and just bs for a while and then they mentioned, no,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: I'm also looking for this. Some folks dive right into it.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: What's your take?
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I tend to not waste their time, which I'm
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: not saying that's the way that's It's just my preferred
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: way of doing it. But I'd be like, uh, you know,
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: knock on your door and I'd be like be like, hey,
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: are you Are you Mark Kenyan and be like yep,
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: and be like hi, Mike. My name is spent in
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: New Art. I'm from Belgrade, Montana. I'm down here deer
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: hunting for the next three days. And again I think
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: it's very important to like lay out your timeline because
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: saying that you're there for the next three days and
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: hunting is very different than just asking for three months
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: worth of permission. So I say, you know, I'm here
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: for the next three days deer hunting, and you know
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: your place looks like you would probably have some deer.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: And I was wondering if if you let people hunt
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: it all, and if so, if I could uh have
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: hunting permission? I don't. I don't think I have a
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: you know, something that's like memorized like I'm an actor,
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: but it's it's close to you know what I just
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: delivered to you there.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Why is it so hard for people to say no
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: to you in person? You mentioned that that's the case?
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Is it? Is it? Do you swoop in with the
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: voice and you give them like the to give them
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: the eye and then you say, hey, that's where you are?
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: Well, for one, they just like for one they have
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: to answer me, right, whereas with I said, you know,
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: writing a letter, they can just crumble it up and
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: throw it in the garbage and never think about it again.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: And I think that's often what does happen Uh, same
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: with an email or a Facebook message or if I
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: leave that person of voicemail, it's it's just so easy
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: to ignore me. And so one I'm I'm going to
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: get an answer, and then I think, you know, it's
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: it's one of the reasons I prefer solo hunting as well.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: I think it is it's so much less intimidating when
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: I tell them it's just me, it's not me and
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: my buddy, it's not me, and like a party of
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: three other guys. And so I think that's also important.
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: They can see my truck, they know what my truck
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: looks like at that moment that you know, they'll have
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: an easier time identifying, you know, like who this stranger
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: is on their property. So I think it's I think
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: it's all those factors together. And and it's just, you know,
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: harder to give somebody bad news in person, which is
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: ultimately what they're doing. Right, Like I'm I'm looking for
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: a yes, and it's you know, harder for them to
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: tell me no. And a lot of times, you know,
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: you can like sort of sense that dread from that
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: landowner you're talking to. They're like, oh, I'm really sorry,
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: but actually and then they'll you know, provide whatever. Uh,
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: you know, their their valid excuses. And so I think
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: it's all those factors baked it bake into you know
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: that it really ups your odds if you're there face
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: to face.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, so I wouldn't call these tricks, but the
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: but like little little things that help, Like I like
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: I mentioned that I'll always try to find a reference
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: point somehow connect me to the area. I'll always you know,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: never end a conversation if they want to keep going
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: with it, right, because you never know what might happen
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: by the end of it. The little trick I mentioned
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: where I'll always ask them to refer me to the
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: next place. Yep, those are a few like my little
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: things that have worked. Do you have any other little
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: tricks or angles or like best practices that have kind
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: of helped you above and beyond what we've talked about.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I think I think all those things that
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: I've mentioned already are of my tricks. Again, Like it
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: helps if you're there on your own, or if you
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: have like a kid who wants to hunt, that's probably
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: a scenario where it is better to have more people there. Yeah,
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: I think what do you wear I don't think about
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: that too much. I know a lot of guys say
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: that they don't like to wear their camo. I've tried
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: to like identify if that helps or hurts my odds,
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: and I don't think it. I don't think it does either.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: One.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: So if I happen to be wearing camo, you know,
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: like I'll wear the camo that I have on while
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: I'm there. I think something that benefits me is I
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: I did grow up in a small farming community of
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: six hundred people, and you know, I knew every farmer
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: in the area, and a lot of my family farmed,
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: and so I can speak a little bit of farm,
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: not a lot, but like to a certain level, I
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: can speak farm with the farm.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Can you give me an example? Can you give me
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: an example? Uh?
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just whatever's like seasonal at that time. I'd be like, oh, so,
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: you know, you guys, you know, talk about the harvest
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: or if it happens to be calving season, uh, talk
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: about calving a little bit or whatever. I don't know
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: that I can give specific exams.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: That's a nice that's a nice bushel you got over there.
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, there you go. That's that's a good example,
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: but I can I can, like you know, it's always
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: specific to whatever's happening there, but I can speak a
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: little bit of farm, and I think that happens as well,
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: because again, in these scenarios, you know, it's better for
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: them to not think of me as a stranger for
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: bo from Bozeman, And if I can uh talk a
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: little farm with them about harvest or cattle or grain
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: prices or whatever, that's to my benefit. And I think that,
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: you know, makes them more comfortable with the whole situation
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: that I'm not going to like ruin their fence or
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: do something totally idiotic like that.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent agree. So you you gave me
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: a perfect segue to the last thing I want to
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: ask you about. You've hunted a lot of different places
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: now by permission, met with a lot of different landowners.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: I think a really important thing that anyone who wants
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: to get permission to hunt somebody else's land needs to
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: really think about is how to make sure that you
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: use that person's land respectfully. Right, Can you leave us
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: with a few of your best practices for making sure
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: that you maintain a good relationship with the landowner and
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: use their proper their property, respectfully, properly in the ways
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: they want.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one of the biggest things most landowners
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: are concerned about, like where you're driving. And I will
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: like basically newter that conversation before it can happen and
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: tell them to like, yeah, I'm just I'm just looking
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: to walk, you know, I'm not going to be driving anywhere.
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: And and so I think, uh, in a lot of cases,
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: even the land room and be like, yeah, you know,
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: there's there's paths all over you can take or whatever,
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: or just like you know, watch when you drive through
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: that one pasture, there's there's some ruts. So I tell
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: them I'm not going to drive anywhere. Yeah, I think
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: if you know, be be conscious about conditions. One of
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: the worst things you can do is if you are
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: driving around if they have like a dirt road that
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: they themselves are responsible for maintaining, Uh, don't drive down
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: it when it's muddy or something like that. You're going
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: to create ruts that are a problem. Then as soon
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: as that drives and until like the landowner comes through
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: and fixes that. So yeah, I think foot traffic is
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: very important to these people. So know that you know
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: you're you're still going to be walking, yeah, being by yourself.
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: I think if you can be specific about where you
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: know you'd like to hunt, or what part of the
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: property you're interested in, Uh, that'll lease their mind about
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: shooting one of their horses or their cattle or something
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Make sure you don't shoot when there's a house behind
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: where you're shooting.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: Yes, I've I've I've heard that. Is that strong advice
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: that shouldn't do that?
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Yep, at least from the camera, right, Yep. Man, No,
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: this is a really really good advice, buddy. I think.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: I think maybe what's to my advantage the most is
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: I am often hunting in places where, uh, the white
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: tail is significantly less respected than in other parts of
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: the country. It's it's the reason I love Western white
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: tails and why when I'm planning my fall, I'm often
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: hunting west of the Missouri River, right. I love hunting
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: in the Dakotas and Nebraska and Montana and Wyoming. And
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: this year I got a white tail tag for Idaho.
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: And my plan for Idaho is to knock on a
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: lot of doors and and get permissions because.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Don't come to my place.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, they're not gonna find uh find on X and
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: I'm not gonna knock on Mark Kenyon's door. But these
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: people just get here. They tend to really not care
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: about white tails. Well, I shouldn't say. In some cases,
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: you're you're far more likely to find a landowner who's like, uh, yeah,
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: you want to hunt white tails? Go ahead, Yeah, I
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: don't care. If I was asking for elk hunting permission, right,
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: that'd be a totally different story. And I don't. I've
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: never asked for elk hunting permission anywhere because I think,
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: you know, that'd be the equivalent of asking for white
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: tail hunting permission in like northern Missouri or southern Iowa.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: It's just significantly less likely to happen in a place
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: where the white tails held to a very high regard.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: And so that's you know why I love hunting white
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: tails out here. You're just generally dealing with folks who
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: don't give a crap, And you'll often hear the the
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: line that's like, uh, sure, but you know you can
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: only haunt if you shoot five of them or something
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: like that, just because it's in some cases it's uh,
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: their stance on white tails is not only neutral but
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: it's negative like, yeah, you know, they're they're driving out
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: the mule deer, they're eating all my hay bales or whatever,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: and so that's you know, I think for the listeners,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: know that that should be the lens you see it through.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: And I'm when I'm giving this advice is I'm I'm
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: often getting a enormous head start by seeking white tail
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: hunting permission in the places that I do.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but didn't I mean your stuff worked in Texas
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: even too, right.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: That that was a weird situation where, yeah, I I
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: sent out letters to Texas landowners, which was a different as.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: That seems very low odds.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, Well, what ended up happening was a landowner that
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: I got permission from in Montana happened to also have
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: land in Texas. Uh that I that I went down
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: and I haunted. But I also I tried Texas. It
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: wasn't near as successful. And I lived in Illinois for
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: a while, right, And that's that was the hardest place
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: for me to get permission. In fact, I got zero
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: permission when I lived in Illinois. So the advice that
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: I'm giving has worked for left of the Missouri River,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: but it's probably less likely to work on the right side.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: But you know, there's certainly things that that you can
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: do that would be very specific to your region to
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: work in it. I think the last thing I would
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: say is, you know, I feel like in the business
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: world they say like always be networking or whatever. That's
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: how I am with hunting permissions. When I'm at a
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: wedding and you know, the small talk starts with a stranger,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: I'm always like trying to feel them out for if
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: they own land or not. If I'm at a bar
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: and I belly up next to somebody who you know,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: start talking to, I'm always always looking for hunting permission,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: and so I think that's something to do no matter
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: what part of the country you live in.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, very very good advice. And I want to
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: make a point to say that even though your experience
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: set has been west of the Mississippi River, he's a
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: Mississippi everything you said absolutely works east of it too.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: Like you're very much in line with my approach in
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: a lot of ways, and it has worked east of
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: the Mississippi. It's just like it's a numbers game that
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: is different, So it might might work one out of
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: ten times for you west and it might work, you know,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: one out of one hundred times to the east. So
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: it's just a matter of like you just have to
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: have a larger sample size when you're trying to do
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: it out here. Yep. But I think it's really really
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: good advice. So I appreciate you sharing this, Spencer, and
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I do want to give you a chance. Do you
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: want to plug any specific trivia episodes? Is there anything
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: fun coming up in the trivia world the game anything else?
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: Can you plug something coming on the game game yet.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: Or no now yet? We you know, we came out
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: with the board game last fall, and I'll say this,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: there are more new trivia related board game products coming
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: out this fall. You know, will probably announce him this
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: summer and they'll be for sale in October or November.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: And I hope that they'll find a place in your
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: deer camp. And if you don't have a deer camp,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: I hope they'll find a place in the glove box
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: of your pickup. Because this game is mobile. It was
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: made by a deer hunter for deer hunters, and it's
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: not exclusively for the kitchen table. It can go wherever
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: you go. And our products coming out this year will
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: also reflect that.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: Awesome man well, great job with the podcast, great job
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: with the board game. We are going to be playing
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: it at our Turkey camp compared in a few weeks,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: So it will it will find its way to probably
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: the top of a cooler or something in a barn.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Good with a bunch of guys hunts to hear.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: That last thing I would say, Mark, is when it
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: happens for you and you get permission and you've hunted
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: their place, just like, go way way over the top
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: with how excited you are and how gracious you are.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: And you know, in my case, I don't have to
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: fake it because I am stoked and I do appreciate
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: you know, the opportunity they've given me, and make it
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: very clear that like you are thrilled to haunt this
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: place and you're very thankful, and it'd be like, you know,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: if you were a guest on a podcast and you
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: were like, man, market was a pleasure, This was so
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: much fun. Thank you. You've got a beautiful show here. Yeah,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: I had you know the time of my life. I
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: really appreciate you lending me a be a guest here,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: and yeah, next time I would love to do this again,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: if you'd allow me to hunt again in the future,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: be a guest and again in the future, you know,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: would mean the world to me.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: Well. Still, here's the thing though, now I don't know, like,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: are you just saying that because you want to get
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: invited again in the future or did you really enjoy it?
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Mark.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: If you don't know, then I think I did a
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: good job.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: You did, Spencer, Thank you.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: Thanks Mark.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: All right, that is a wrap. Thanks for tuning in,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: thank you for being a part of this community, thanks
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: for making this something that I'm excited about every day.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: And I'd say, until next time, let's stay wired to Hunt.