Latest / WoT Spoilers / Making Use of Invisibility, An Answer, When to Surrender, Epilogue - New Spring ch24-Epilogue - EP590

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Making Use of Invisibility, An Answer, When to Surrender, Epilogue - New Spring ch24-Epilogue - EP590 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Today. We
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: are here to finish Robert Jordan's contributions to the Wheel
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: of Time.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Now, there's gotta be scenes in a Memory of Light he.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Wrote, chapters written. Yeah, we're down to yeah, just finding
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: those scenes in Memory of Light that are obviously written
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: by him. But this is the last pure hit of
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Jordan that we get.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I feel like I said this last bite of dessert,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: but I still forgot that I have like my green
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: beans to eat, but a memory of lights, I mean,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: a memory of light's delicious, more like having steak left.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a good dish. But yes it's a
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: little bit of dessert, and you've still got a bit
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: of your entree. But there's this is desert like it's
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: a good entree but like.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Chocolate cake. Well, look the way we talk about Robert
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Jordan's writing, it's just so rich and decadence.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: It is it is. I was going through these sections,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: highlighting you know, half of a page, thinking like and
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: we thought this would be fast, and we thought this
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: would be light and fluffy and fan service, and not
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: much happens, and I'm just like every other line, Oh
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: my god, trying to be so like harsh with myself, like, no,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: you don't need to highlight that, you don't need to die
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: like that. And it's just like Jordan, stop it. Why
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: are you so dense off a writer? He is? He
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: is the densest of chocolate cakes. Oh my gosh, so
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: much happens in this So this is definitely the sander
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: lanchiest of a Jordan book, just because of how fast
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and quick it is. You have Tea behind you. So
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: much happens here, So much happens here. This is this
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: is the sander lanch.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, no, I really feel like he's spending a
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: lot of this book introducing you to the world of
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: the wheel of Time and sort of base and sets
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: up a very basic story and then it all comes
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: together here. But a lot of that story is happening
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: in the background of like and you kind of get
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: a summary. He does the kind of the real time
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: where he goes back and has Moraines kind of give
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: you a summary of what you should have caught on
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: the first pass. Pretty much, I feel like you get
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: a little summary here at the.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: End, and this is in fact a Moraine reading.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Oh that's right, I'm sorry talking about Sue.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: On my badha I know, right, chapter twenty four making.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Which, by the way, how gay are they in these chapters?
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: So gay? And then he tries to throw in this
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: line about like, oh, yeah, I haven't.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Been kissed like that in a long time, when I'm
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: like bullshit, like, yeah, boys are kissing different than girls,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: but like I haven't been lustful since I last kissed
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: a boy. Nope, that is a lie that Jordan just
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: felt obligated to put in there.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: That line is not real.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Computer.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: This is an incredibly gay chapter. It's so gay, dresses
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: the girls very gay. But it's called making use of invisibility.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: So maybe it's about hiding in the closet behind your
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: respectability of politics or something.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: That's the metatitle, not the being a servant and being
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: not perceived that way.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically, And the symbol is the rising sun of
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Kyrie in because Morain Kyrie lady stuff.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she's being a noble in this. That's how
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: she's getting in as faking her entrance.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's the invisibility that Swan is able to
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: take advantage of, right, is that Morain has all eyes
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: on her, so Swan can just do the servant thing.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: All eyes on me, right.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Swan started up again while they were dressing the next morning.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: She disliked being argued out of anything, particularly when she's
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: got herself in the right, and she usually did think
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: herself in the right. I don't like you taking all
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: the risks, she muttered, pulling a blue wool dress over
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: her head. She had brought a change, as it turned out,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: and she had been near to snippy and pointing out
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: that Moraine was the one with only a single dress
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: to her name. I will not be taking all the risks,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Morain said, suppressing a sigh. They had gone over this
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: and over it last night. You must take as many
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: as I will. You help me with these buttons. Swan
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: turned her around by the shoulders, almost roughly, and attacked
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: the two rows of small mother of pearl buttons that
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: ran down her back. Don't be a gudgeon, she grumbled,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: tugging at the dress much more fiercely than was necessary.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: If this works as well as you say it will,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: nobody will notice me. You'll have all sails set, the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: sweeps out, and banners flying. I say there has to
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: be a better way, and we're going to sit down
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: and talk it over to you see the right of it,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Morain did sigh. Then a bear with a sore tooth
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: would have been better company, even that fellow Land doing
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: up Swan's buttons. In turn, she tried distracting the other
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: woman by telling her how much the cut of her
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: dress molded her hips and bosom. Well, for more than
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: for a little more than distraction, Swan deserved a bit
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: of sniffiness back. That's not snippiness, that's flirting. That's just
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: that's not snippiness. That's not straight snippiness anyway, it's gay snippiness.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Let me distract you by telling you how hot you
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: are in that dress.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's gay snippiness.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And I just right all the way through there because
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: of the mention of Land, just like the contrast of
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: her life partner and love interest, the one that we
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: know is real and the person who's going to be
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: her her work husband, you know, her other life companion
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: that she goes completely all in on. The secrecy and
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: the intimacy, and yeah, it's not physically romantic, but like
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: as intense of a level of trust as with Swan.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: It's why when they said in the Wheel of Time
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: show they are adapting the whole series. I went, well, okay,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: then Suan's going to be gay, because like if you
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: read the whole series, including New Spring, like gay, it
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: really gay?
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, they're so gay and other.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I get it. Why that that was probably
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: the least bothersome part of the show to me, at
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: least bother some alteration.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: It's so canonical. It's not an ituration. It's like Elanna Avanda.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: It's like they changed the way that they met and
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: got together, but the fact that they're getting together is canonical.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: It's just like you read some of these books and
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, they're sleeping in the same bed that
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: they're doing and they're like, anyway.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: It's it's a very gay, it's very so. Yeah, they
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: go down into the common room, they do their breakfast thing.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: This innkeeper, why does this remind me of another innkeeper
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: from the main series with all the rules and stuff.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: There's another one like that and somewhere in the main series.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're right, you're right.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I looked her up and it's not the same innkeeper,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: which I thought would have been fun. But it's just
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: another one who has these rules that like Elaine can't
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: like Elaine and I neive stay. Is it the Yellow
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Sister or no, it's one of the ends they stay
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: in before they get into a trapping.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of those random by the by ones.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: It's not satala anons. She runs it with an iron
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: fist and she keeps her daughters on a short leash.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: But it's different. There's a random one off road trip
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: in that Yeah, has essentially this character, if not by name,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: it's this archetype. I can't remember which one it is
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: because Yeah, it's a complete random encounter that has no
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: long term bearing.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: So she goes off. This is chores. Right, they're getting
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: ready to pull off a bambooso, and.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: It's a quick refresh of what we did in Tarvalan. Right,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: run to the bank, get some money, run to the steamstress.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: But in this case we're going to a steamstress and
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: breaking all the rules of convention and throwing money around
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: like water to get the stuff done really quickly. But
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: still we're recapping the skills that we've shown we have
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: in her and abilities, like going to a bank is
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: not a skill, it's in ability. But still we're doing
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: what we did in Tarvalan, just at a smaller scale.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Now there there's a mention of black adjaw and this
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: woman starts and runs off, and she's a imposing woman
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: with ivory combs in her hair. And I was trying
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: to find some connection and I found nothing. Right, I
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: didn't find her like running off to go tell an
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I said I or something like that. She's just someone
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: who heard the word black ajah and got startled, like
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: I've got nothing else. I wanted there to be something else.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: My suspicion is that it's an eyes and ears type
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: of person who's going off to write a report and
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: it doesn't come to anything. But it's someone who is
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: not ignorant of what an aja is, right. This is
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: someone who knows because they're some degree of inveigeld and
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: probably have a pigeon to send. But there's no evidence
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: that it means anything. I think it's just evidence of
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: the fact that the eyes and ears are everywhere.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there's this whole thing where she does exactly
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: what she's not supposed to do with the seamstress, which
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: is demand of price demand. It comes early demand the
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: color and just bribe her into silence with enough gold and.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Just speed, so much speed. I mean to say I
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: need these dresses tomorrow is to say stop every other
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: project you have and tell women to work overtime tonight.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Like that is really fast.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I mean seeing all the nobles and all the seamstresses, yeah,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: all at once.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm asking you to take a professional hit on
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: your reputation by delaying everyone else's project by a full
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: half day of labor. Have some more money and do it,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: like yesh, she is throwing that money around.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: And you also notice why she's so busy. The King
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: of malk Here is visiting because land's there.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Last king of Malcaire died at twenty five years ago.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Obviously the King of One was there, a complete fool.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like there is no such thing as the King
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: of malk Here. Oh my god, she's so it's so silly.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: It's like, girl, maybe there's complicated politics going on with
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the concept of reclaiming malk Here. Maybe you don't know
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: everything that's going on with the rich and famous of
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: the city the way the literal seamstress does. Maybe like
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: pump her for information.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It is funny to see Moraine making
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: mistakes at this point in her career, like really, obviously.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: That's my baby.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and again just on how good Robert Jordan is
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: it writing the same character but younger and more you know,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: more prone to miss things and make mistakes and not
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: necessarily do the wrong thing, but just miss things that
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: she otherwise the Moraine would have caught.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we were so used to her being omnipotent
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: and wise and thoughtful, and we're not used to seeing
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: her being impulsive, reckless.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: So lady in this this is who Suan has been
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: like checking out right, because they're looking, they're trying to
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: find her son. Her son's on the list. He's the
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: one they think may have been born on Dragon Mount.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Right, So basically they go to the palace to get
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: close to the lady in us because she's a lady,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: and so Moraine has to be like, I'm also a lady.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: You should have house us in the same apartment Bloff
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: for the weekend, and ostensibly that will allow her to
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: get closer. But then because of you know, hashtag mysterious
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: murder for a thousand alex, she can't get close to
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: the lady ess easily. It's gonna be a whole thing.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Who could that possibly be that killed her lucky husband.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: Mmmm.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Well okay, here's the question. Are they going after her
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: husband or are they going after her son? Like I'm
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: not I think they're going after her husband.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I think her husband and his son because they're related.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: I don't. But remember, Marine isn't even going after this kid.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: She doesn't know anything about him. The Black Aja isn't
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: going after the kid.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Why are they trying to talk to her then? If
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: they don't know about her kid.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Moraine and Suan know about her kid, but the Black
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Ajo don't. Right.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: But they're just killing lucky man, right. This is the
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: section in which we learn like they're just going after
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: him and with luck right.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: And the kid hasn't This is not a lucky kid.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Now the other kid. This is where he gets confusing
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: because there is another kid, yes right, yes, Consort bris
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Brys and that's the lucky Ki kid.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: That's the father of the lucky kid.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Sorry, the kid is Dirk, right, Bristin Dirk. Thank you
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: for correcting me on that one. So yeah, brist and
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Dirk are the lucky ones.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I only mistook it like seven times while I was
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: reading the chapter, so it's very firm in my head,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: now that I've realized that I was.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Getting No, you're right, they are because they just die together.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: And he's called prince because that's the position, but prince
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: is a name you associate with children, and the child
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: is also called prince. But it's just that, like men
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: don't get to be king in this kingdom or whatever.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I don't fucking know, but anyway.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: He's prince consort, not prince, right, that's the difference to prince. Yeah,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: but they both have prince in front their name, so yeah,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: it gets a little confusing.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: But I think that the Black Aja is taking the
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: approach of any man who is lucky and also his
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: male kin, because why not particularly his male progeny, Like
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: why would you not also take out the son because
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: he might be too young to show channeling luck yet,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: but their male kin so might as well.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: So I guess what I'm trying to figure out is
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: has did her husband, Lady Niss's husband get killed by
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: the Black Auja, Because as far as I know, the
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Black Auja has nothing to do with Lady and Thiss
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: or her son.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she was just an older man who died
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: of a heart attack over breakfast as far as anyone
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: can tell. That's that's the only Yeah, he wasn't lucky,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: he just died.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: That's what I Yeah, I kind of have just made
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: the assumption that any death here is a Black aujact
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: killing lucky man.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: But this guy, he just her husband died suddenly. She
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: loved him dearly.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: The only luck that this man had is that he
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: had a relatively young wife, which is like sometimes people
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: just fall in love with an age gap. We both
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: know that, like it. That's not the kind of luck
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: that would bring down the Black.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Right because because what we have to realize is the
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Black Auja and Marine and Suan have different sources of information, right,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: And what we realize is that the Black Aja knows
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: the Dragon Reborn is alive, but doesn't know how old
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: he is, And they have no list. They're not going
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: after these children the same ones that Marine is going after.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: It's just a coincidence that they're in the same place
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: at the same time. They're actually going after very different families.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: That's what happens when you throw a net really really
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: wide and you have no discrimination on who your free
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: agents are murdering, you end up with a lot of
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: crossfire and strange coincidences that didn't need to happen. I
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: think it's just because it's they've blown it so wide open,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: and because there are lucky people in the border lands
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: a lot, I would think, because cool to vere any
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: noble fight the shadow type stuff, like, of course the
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: net's going to be catching people up here. Of course
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: it's going to be Black Aja just generally doing that
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: sort of shenaniganry up here anywhere that Swan and Marien
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: might go. Really right, they're doing this pogram across the
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: continent in every nation, as they says.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: They could be killing hundreds of thousands, like or thousands.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Anyway, they're definitely affecting hundreds of thousands of people, the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: numbers of widows and orphans that they're leaving behind. But
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: this indiscriminate style of killing is going to have profoundly
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: destabilizing effects for a lot of people.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: But so, yeah, we're the conclusion that Lanny and is
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: his husband died of natural causes because he was just
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: an old man.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I also had assumed it was a Black Aja thing.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: But given that, the only detail we have at him
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: is that he's older and he died over breakfast. I'm
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: just going to assume a natural heart attack or a stroke. Like,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like Luck or Miren had anything to do
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: with it. It's weird.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: And in ten days is before they arrived, right.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Oh right, yeah, totally so, yeah, that's just that's so
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: funny both of us just as soon. I'm assuming a
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: lot of our audience also has never thought to me
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: if this was a black Aja death or not, like.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Right, But yeah, there's there's these two very different families,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: and it just our bad guys and our good guys
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: are on two very different parallel paths that just happen
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: to be parallel and take them to the same place
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: at the same time, as best I can tell, even
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: though they're investigating the same thing, which is the death
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: of the dragon the birth of the dragon reborn.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's tangled, messy, blurry.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: All right. Chapter twenty five basically a continuation. She's waited,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: the Chayatan is waiting for her. She meets up with
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: the Chaitan.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they kind of split their forces, right. Suki
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: goes off to meet with a footman, right, She's going
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: to do a little bit of flirting between servants to
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: try to get access into the thing, right, so go
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: through the front door, going through the side door.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: And she was scandalized by Leanne.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, how dare you be scandalized by
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Leanne using those same skills in a much more dire
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: situation when you're like, yeah, I'll go make out with
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: a cute footman to try to get shush.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: That was after you were in Isadaye too?
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I know, it's it's it's so funny and I
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: don't think it's bad that, you know, she's obviously very
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: committed to, you know, being a lesbian and she's gonna
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: go maket with a cute boy like I'm all for
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: a bisexual representation like that. It's great. It's just a yeah,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: and what.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Is this line? She did not know whether Suan had
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: ever been with a man, but surely she would not
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: just to reach lot uh, to reach Essa's servants not
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: a foot.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Not a foot man.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, how close are you to she's never told
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: you whether she's been with a man. Also that you
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: specify a man.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: M mm hmmmm hmmm. Yeah.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just the the the phrasing and the way
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: it's put and the implications, the implications.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: The implication implications, many implications, it's not subtext. I also
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: just love how Swan or how Moraine is just so
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: scandalized by the concept of a footman, like the way
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: that she's like, yeah, it's just for subterfuge and it's
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: just a dalliance and it's not really meaningful. But also
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I need to be classiest about it, even in the
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: context of the the Skies, I still need to be classist.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Well, and it shows you that Moraine has the internal
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: classism that of course Suwan doesn't because she's a fisherman's daughter.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a footman is a fine person from where she's
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: that's higher up than being a fisherman's daughter in the
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: social pecking order.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: Like.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: It's like the highest you can be as a commoner, right.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but yeah. The idea that these these two
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: women who have fallen in love and definitely had a
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: physical relationship, have never once talked to about their relative
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: levels of experience with boys is hard to believe, right, because.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, canonically they've said they were pillow friends, right,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: and canonically the pillow friends are people who they kiss,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: you know, at night, right, at least at least. So
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: it's just like, and to have that kind of relationship,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: even if you end it when you become I sid
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: eye for whatever reason you think you need to to
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: not have that conversation, be like, well, I've kissed you.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Have you kissed a boy you know or anybody else? Ever? Right?
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like, no, I'm pretty sure that conversation
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: had to have happened unless Maureen is literally that much
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: of a prude that she just like but like, I
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: can't even comprehend that level of prudish repressiveness. I cannot even.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Because we know that level of prudishness exists, right, Like, we're.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Not It's true, it's true ignorant of that fact. But
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Swan would have asked Swan would have I brought it up.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Swan wouldn't have been that much of a prude. Swan
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: probably would have volunteered that information. Oh you're so much
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: more fun to be with than a boy, I'm assuming,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: is what Swan would have said.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: There are a ton of iaid I and I read that. Basically.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: What's going on is the Gray Aja maybe trying to
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: do the sort of grand coalition thing. Oh sure, after
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: the Io War, they're all trying to like get the
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: rulers to agree to this like United Nations situation, and there's.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: A lot there's a lot of borderland or nobility up here,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: so it makes sense that your percentage of Grays in
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: particular would be high around here.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Also, we noticed that Rain and Bukama are here, right Like,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Maureen had no idea that Land was anywhere in residence,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: and then she sees Rain and Bukama and is like, oh, no,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I might run into Land. That's going to be a problem.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: And then you know, five seconds there she decided she
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: needs to run into Land. But it's funny.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: And also Deres was swearing by Land by Land's.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Luck, right, Yeah, totally, she's just like, which also tells
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: you how lucky Land is of a man, right, So
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: that puts him on the list, puts him on the list,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: puts him on the list. And she knows that he
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: can't be the dragon reborn because obviously he was not
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: born yesterday, right, But it puts him on the black list.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah right right, And Derek of course is now on
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: the list because he was lucky, right Like, So it's
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: just like Jesus, you're screwed if you die screwed if
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: you survive.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: I know, I know. Oh. Another note about Morene's cavalier classism.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: She cared little for music and less for whoever played
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the instruments, and kyrie and musicians were hired and forgotten.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I was just at a hippie music festival, okay, and
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: like the music lineup is a pretty important part of
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: that entire gathering. You need to respect your musicians.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Maureene, who does she marry again?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Literally a musician, one of the most famous Tinerant musicians
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: in the continent.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I think that has to be just a commentary about
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: like her.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Marriage doesn't care. You're going to be marrying worse than
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: a footman, a.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Musician, a Gleamin, I know, not even a court Bard.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: It could be a court Bard if you wanted. Oh,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about the irony of that, that
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: she marries a musician, after being so disparaging of the concept.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: That's that's some good irony. I like it. That's one
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: reason why I like Marin and Tom getting together. We
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: found it.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: The iron for the irony all but it just tells
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: you how much Jordan knew that she was getting together
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: with Tom at this point right joke in there.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, if he hadn't made up his mind at
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: master Bard, he had definitely made up his mind by this.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: The next thing I have is her encountering Marine Marion or.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so she goes striding off to find Swan and
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: crashes into Miarn Black Aja Redhill.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Oh I did one quick note eight antall do she
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: encounters here. He's the one that convinces the Great Captains
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: that Candor has fallen and says, abandon it. I don't
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: know if you remember that scene in a Memory of
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Light when Candor has fallen. He's like, leave it behind.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: We're I am the son now the ruler.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: So I completely forgot about that. But I so this
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: is the young son who picks up a f Okay, okay, the.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Young version of him. Yeah, he's a young boy. Yeah.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: I completely missed that because I was just like, oh no,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: these answer fans, servers insert ames. Of course, I never think, oh,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: but do they actually show up in a Memory of
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Light to do cool stuff?
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: I've checked them all.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: This is why we're a good team.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, Antol was the only one who really
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: shows up in a Memory of Light, and he's the
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: one who says basically when they're like, we need to
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: save Candor, and he's like, ladies and gentlemen, Candor's done.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Move on, Well, we'll recover it later. It's not for now.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: So yeah, the uh Laurel, what do you think she
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: decided to go her own way considering she's never in
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: the series again? Or do you think her body is
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: buried somewhere out in the desert to never be found. Oh?
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she did, she did, she did way. Miarn responds
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: to everything here is just like so evil, right, she's
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: clearly lying, she's clearly disinterested in anything but getting Morain
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: out of the way. I don't think Laurel was anything
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: but an obstacle to doing more murder.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: No, and Laurel was insistent on coming here. She's the
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: one who wanted to so badly. So this is the
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: only thing that would have changed her mind, is you know,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: a knife in the back? Yeah?
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know why she had to get killed. If
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: she was just some bumbling eyes to die doing normal
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: above board eyes to die stuff, surely there was simpler
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: ways to work around her than creating a body to
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: be found later. But Mirarn responds like a murderer in
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: a book who is about to attack the main character.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Like that's how she's acting here.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think you can say she went south
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: and then she never got to her destination and she
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: must have died along the way. And as a black Aja,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: you can lie through your teeth about what happened. And
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: basically that's a really easy way to get rid of
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: another icid eye. Like there's a reason they're dwindling the
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: black a jaws, polishing them off when they're inconvenient and
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: they don't even realize it.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, must have been a child of the light, you know,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: isid I die as easy as any other to a
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: knife in the back. Must have been those damn children
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: too bad.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we don't know. I mean, she's just murdering
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: left and right.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: She seems very okay with doing iside murder.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Maybe at some point Larelle caught her doing some murder
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: and had to go.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: We get more reinforcement of how wrong Moraine is that
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: kad Swayin is black Auja. Just like again, as spoilers
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: things like, when this book came out, Katswayn was still
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: slightly unknown, but as spoilers goes, it's just like ah, yes,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: baby Moraine, not having the best judge of character and
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: trusting mirror and not trusting Kat Swayn when it absolutely
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: should have been the other way around.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: It's the moment that Varren doesn't poison Kat Swayin that
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: you go, Okay, Kat's Swayne isn't wait, Varren's black?
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Right right? Yeah, those themes are the facial expression changes,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: even though the text doesn't change.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Right, Barren didn't point poison Codsway because she's not black?
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Wait wait, wait wait? And that really because that really
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: put the purple odd jaw rumors on peak, right, because like,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: poisoning someone is an evil thing to do, but if
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: you're doing it because they're black and you're hunting the
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: black maybe that is like a reason to start poisoning people,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: you know, and like maybe Varren is part of the
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: secret society that's out there hunting the black jaw and
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: they've been hiding. They're hiding in plain sight from the
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: people who were hiding in plain sight.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Right right, right, And that was not an inaccurate read.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: It was a secret society of one, but you know.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: More of a triple agent situation than a secret society.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, potato, potato, it's fine.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: So she heads to Land's apartments basically because she's outed.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: As I said, I yeah, she was planning on avoiding
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Land as Lady Morain demadred, but as the exposed Morain
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: is to die, she'd rather get out ahead of that
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: revelation with him and try to use him as an
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: eye to dye agent, because.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: As we learn at the end of this series, she
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: wanted him as a warder from day one.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Day one, she's been running him through tests to see
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: if he would be deserving of the bond from her.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: When he's passed with flying colors.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Lying colors. So the second that she feels afraid, as
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: in Eyes to die, because as a lady, she kind
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: of knows how to handle herself as a lady. Yeah,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: she was a teenager when she went to the tower,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: but still that's the life she grew up in. As
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: an ice to die, she has trained herself to think,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: one of my first jobs is to find a warder.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: One of my first tools to go to when I'm
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: in danger is a warder. So as soon as she
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: feels threatened as an ice to die, she's like, where's
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: that man I wanted for a warder.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: But also look at the situation she's in. She's realizing
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: she has to be on the road hunting these people
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: down for years and decades. It's not a time to
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: be without a order. She needs physical protection. She's aware,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: especially after you know, stabbing marine in the back, how
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: important it is to you know, be stabby, stabby.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Because sometimes you'll be denied the power. Sometimes the power
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: is not the tool you get to wield. Sometimes you
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: have steel, and to have a professional steel wielder. It's
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: also helpful to have some professional steel on yourself, as
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: she discovers. But I also love how she hears that
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Land is the you know, king of mak heir if
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: he wishes it, and then does not change her calculus
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: about wanting him as somewhere now in the slightest it
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: makes zero impact on how she considers approaching him as
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: an asset.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: He's got a golden locket. Is that the locket with
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: his hair?
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: No, with his parents' faces his parent's face, Okay, Now
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the hair is tied in an elaborate bondage knot around
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: the door, and that's why he can't leave his apartments.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I don't remember that lockett from modern land.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: No, it seems like he loses it somewhere along the way.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: When he brought it up in the text earlier in
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: the book, we were wondering what happened to it, and
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: clearly it's still here through the end of the book.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I almost wonder if he burns it in the fire
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: at the end of the chapter. She only says she
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: smells burning hair. But the locket could easily have been
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: destroyed in that fire without giving us any clue. Or
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: he loses it somewhere in between.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, A quick search does not show Lockett appearing again
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: in this book.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's with him now, it goes away at
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: some point. I don't think he would get rid of
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: it when he burns his hair, because it's like the
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: pictures of his parents. It's pretty divorced from all of
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: the stuff to do with the hair. But somewhere along
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: the twenty year journey he loses it. Maybe they have to,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: you know, flee in the night with under their clothes,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: maybe they get you know, robbed at gunpoint or whatever.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You'd think that Ninive would have mentioned
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: it at some point if he still had it in
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: the modern books.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, information that I've got, because yeah, don't. I
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: don't think it appears in any of the modern books.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: So head Cannon at Will. He loses it somewhere along
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: the way, and his career is Marian's border.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: It is mentioned in Eye the World in the story
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Right Oh, she goes to lock it around her son's
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: neck for remembrance, and the infant, wrapped in swaddling clothes
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: by the Queen's on hand, was given over to twenty
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: chosen from the king's bodyguard, the best swordsman. So that
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: lockett is mentioned in I the World. So maybe that's
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: why it's got included here.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Maybe he does burn it here, because he does say
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: he's burning the past, and if it was put around
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: his neck for remembrance, maybe he takes the pictures out
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: and burns them and then sells the lockett as just
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: a useless trinket or is something like I don't know,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: he keeps the ring though.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: It's interesting that in that either World Locked the only
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: time the word lockett appears is this story about Land.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I love being able to search the e books, man,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite things.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: That's really cool. That's been very helpful being able to
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: pick out those levels of detail that only a computer search,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: only a fine and only a fine search can possibly
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: possibly provide that.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Like, how many times does the word Lockett appear in
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: this book?
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, no one knows that off the top of
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: their head. That's that's a ridiculous thing. But with a computer, poof,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: The word Lockett does not appear in The Great Hunt,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: So I'm not going to search all the books. But yeah,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: and I.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Feel like it would have been mentioned by a ninety
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: even one of the scenes when she gets to look
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: at Lance shirtless if he took his shirt off to exercise,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the locket's still there in this book. You'd think Naive
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: would have noticed that. She doesn't mention it, so I
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: One would assume it's lost some time between now and
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I of the World. But Son, I don't think you
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: would burn it.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think he would either. It's too relevant to
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: his origin story.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: It's also made out of metal.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Well, but I mean you could still melt it into
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: not being usable as a Lockett kind of thing, Like
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: a hot and a fire. You could definitely fuck a
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: chain of like links are pretty small, especially if it's
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: gold exactly. It does not have that high of a
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: melting temper for purposes of making it not a perfect
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: piece of jewelry.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: I like his response to her when she asks him
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: just basically I call you. He goes, you know, the
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: hills are high, but not how they lie. And I
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: like that little rhyme that basically says you're you're book smart,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: but you have no experience.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: That's street dum. Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely thought that
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: was a cool rhyming way to say, oh, bless your heart.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: And yeah, basically she says, well said, I deserve allegiance
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: from you, and he says, bitch, please, let's have a
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: quick little history lesson, and you tell me which way
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: the scales lie.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Malchiir Fell were the iceid eye. And then she
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: does something that she isn't supposed to do, right, She
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: exposes a lie the Tower has been telling, which is
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: the Tower has basically made people think that they didn't
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: send anybody. Instead of saying they failed and arrived too late.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: They'd rather think that they didn't care than they failed
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: to help their allies. And so she tells them the truth,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: which is that they were sent this they fucked up
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: didn't do it a good enough job, didn't show up
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: in time.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: The White Tower completely did its part, and it wasn't enough.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: And they would rather pretend to be unfeeling and playing
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: five D chess than to be fallible, and like, that's
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: messed up. But the fact that she wants to share
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: that with him is like, so she really does want
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: him for a warder. She is very determined that he
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: will be her warder or he will be dead in
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: a ditch by Sunday, like one or the other.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, you see that, especially at the end when
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: she tells him everything about the quest. M hmmm, which
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: we know from Raine. Is like, she doesn't tell anybody
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: everything ever.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Right, I mean we know that Swan doesn't tell Andrik
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: her first word any of this. She doesn't reveal any
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: of this until she's getting together with Britain. This is
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: a very very very intimate level of trust and the
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: fact that she hasn't even bonded him yet and is
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: willing to start in on that she wants him. She
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: wants him a lot.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Here she basically says, I'm asking you for a favor, right,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: I want you to follow marine.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she says, I need this big favor, and he says, fine,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: if you've answered my question honestly, fine, and her answer
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: and then her ask of him is be a spy,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: but don't actually be a spy yourself, because you're landman
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: dragon and ginga milkyear like, ask Boukama to.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Do it, but don't tell Boukama why.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I just need to get a little intel
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: gathered and it's such a small ask and then it,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: you know, unravels everything.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: This is why Bookama dies is because he was stiffing around.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: It's kind of sad.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: It's really sad that Boukama doesn't even know what he
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: was doing that got him killed. Yeah, that's such a bummer.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: And the fact that he was killed by his.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Friend that also sucks. But it would have been cool
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: if he at least knew he was getting into a
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: lethal situation before getting betrayed.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Marine could have done more about that.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Nah. She sees musicians and soldiers with about the same
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: level of regard.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: And it is interesting that she doesn't want rain to
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: know at all, and that saves.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Her life because he'll gossip. Right, she has this very
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: disparaging reason. Not op sick, It's not op sick. It's
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: just that she thinks that he'll go running off.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: It's just luck.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just luck.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: So do we think Land's luck is taverin ran to
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: verenness now that he's born. Is that what's doing all this?
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: He needs these people to be looking for him.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, it does make all the difference. And this
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: is an absurd, absurd, absurd amount of luck. So I
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: So the next thing is Lady aesl is basically being
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: a spoiled brat and is like, you're going to escort
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: me to the White Tower because I want to be
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: isid Die. I don't want to marry Land.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Nah reminds me a bit of Elayne, that one no, no, no,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: the one noble woman that's that brings her house Kathleen,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I think Katlen of Haven or something like that, the
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: one with the owl that Dylan has to like take
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: in hand during the whole right especial sequence, the eldest
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: of those. This girl reminds me a lot of her.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Sort of that similar arrogance, and you're going to do
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: what I say?
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: And yeah, basically a fourteen year old noble lady who
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: thinks that she could be ised to die. They're kind
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: of all going to be a little bit the same
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: person because like their brains aren't fully developed, and like
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: teenagers are a certain kind of way, you know. But
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: that's what this reminded me of, was just that absolute arrogance,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: and you know, it ends poorly for her in this case, again,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Moraine's dismissiveness kind of leads to mirror and getting another victim. Yeah,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: maybe she would have gotten sucked into this anyway because
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: she is used to summon the two men to get killed,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: but potentially Moraine's dismissiveness adds another body to this overall encounter,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: h which is a bummer.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I think there is a level of trying to set
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: her up with some guilt, right, to be like, you
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: really fucked this one up, Like this is your initial
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: thing and it's like, yeah, these people died, and like
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: also that she's cold and that she moves on and
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: understands that she just has to keep going. But also
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: like I think there's a real guilt here that she
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: didn't handle it and didn't stop it before it happened.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's like, uh, you think that you
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: know how serious the mission is because you're gonna save
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: the world, find the dragonry born. But then to have
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: this many people die this quickly because of a few
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: moments of carelessness. It's like, Okay, this mission is serious,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: not academic serious, not I read it in a book, serious,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: like street smart.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Because people are gonna die.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna get robbed, you're gonna get shot, Like serious,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: this is you have to move on. You have to
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: stay committed to the mission because it's too important for
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: you to be bobbed down by guilt. But you need
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: to understand the implications of what could happen and what
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: might be demanded of you. Read It's kind of like
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: her Eyes to dietest, right, you have to leave people
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: behind to die in order to achieve the larger mission.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Like this is a really intense version of that. Is like,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: you need to be very careful that who you get
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: killed is only who's necessary to get killed, because you're
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: gonna get people killed. Is it going to be a
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: lot or a little? Figure it out? Also, maybe higher
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: reward right time.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Are they going to be innocent? Are they going to
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: be you know, people who are trying to get involved
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: and try and get power, or is it going to
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: be you know.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Children, right, and then again, think about the way she
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: approaches the Emmonsfield five in book one. I will kill
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: you without a second thought if I think that you're
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: going over to the dark one, if you're endangering the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: mission to fayeel right, She's like, I will leave you
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: in this swamp to literally live or die as nature allows,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: if you endanger my mission. Like, there's a reason why
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: she's so cold. There's a reason why she's so willing
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: to accept certain collateral damages because she has seen what
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: happens when she is careless, right.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: And she's probably also stepped over a lot more bodies
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: than just these to.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Get to rand Oh yeah, oh yeah, not always because
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: of her carelessness, not always because of her actions, but
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: one way and another, by the time she gets to
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: the Two Rivers, Yeah, she has seen and caused a
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: lot of deaths in the name of the greater good.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Ah Am, you're greater good. So Sue one comes back
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: after well, Marian dismisses her and basically says, you know
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: you can make it there yourself.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is what leads her to go talk to
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: me or and like, okay, fine, I'll go pretty different.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I said, I have to talk to whatever.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: And then Sue comes back saying, well, Kal knows how
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: to kiss, right, and other than that, nothing, just like,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, I was making out with him, he was
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: that was fun.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Also, when was the last time you thought of that
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: boy you made out with back in Kyrie? And so
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: we get this, you know, hint that they both technically
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: had kissing skills before they got to the White Tower,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: right right.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Right, but they certainly have been practicing on each other.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then we get a line that I thought
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: was so quintessentially Sue on when they put it in
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: the show, and I did not recall it in the
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: books until reading it here, skin me insult me if
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: you don't take idiot risks. When they put that in
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: the show, I was like, damn, that's a Swanian line
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Like that just gets because it's Jordan for her. Uh
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: huh okay.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I honestly think the only book that most of the
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: writers in that room read was New Spring, because it's short,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: and it was written by Robert Jordan, and it's the
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: basis of the characters, and because Rosemund Pike was such
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: a star. I think basically they said, if you have
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: to read one, read the shortest one. It's a prequel.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: It gives you the basis for the world, and it
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: introduces you to Moraine. And that's one of the reasons
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: why Marine was such a main character and was the
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: character from this book, not the character as much that
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: we see in Eye of the World. She's much more
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: the Suwan that we see in these In these books,
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: it was just a little more human and a little
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: more fallible and also Swan.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the flesh it out inness of the eyes
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: to die, and also the immaturity of the eyes to dye. Yeah,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: I would buy that. I would buy that theory that
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: this book is heavily overrepresented in the writer's room.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Just because they said like, Okay, I have to read
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: something to understand the world. What's the shortest thing I
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: can read? And they're like, well, there's the prequel. That's short.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Kind of gives you the trou of the world, has
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: everything you need to know, has our main characters in It,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: gives you the good background, tells you about the struggle,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: the fight for the Dragon reborn, and gives you a
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: good entry spot into what we're going to be telling
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: and jumping off.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: From yeah, yeah, that totally makes sense. And I mean,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I can't disagree with that logic. If you're only going
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: to read one book to try to understand the world
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: and the characters, this would be better than I have
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: the World. I always have said, either The World's a
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: great standalone novel, but if you're trying to speed run
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: the world that Jordan built, this would be a faster
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: way to do it.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Oh that makes me sad.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: I don't like it. I just think it's true.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it does explain a lot about what we
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: got in the show, I.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Think, yeah, so yeah. Boukama makes a report to Swan
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: and she describes him as a grizzly old stork, which
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: I think is beautiful. And also, this boy that she's
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: been making out with apparently has already figured out a
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: way to potentially get her a job if she's hard
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: up for work. He really likes her. He's a very
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: sweet man. He's like, I meant out with this girl
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: one time. I think I can figure out a way
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: to get her employment. It's awesome.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: It's shockingly true. Though. So many people are like, Oh,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: I like this girl. I can get you a job.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: I can get you in my life, I can get
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: you close.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Sure, and so yeah, they're kind of trying to figure
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: out what the hell's going on with me Aaron, because
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: she's either a searcher or a black Aja, which is
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: a different kind of searcher for the Dragon Reborn, and
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: they're all converging on the same people, but who knows
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: why and act confusion and maybe the dragon Reborn will
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: die before he even learns to walk or whatever.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Also, this line Maureen hoped matters. We're not going to
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: go proceed beyond kissing Suan's business if it did, But
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: that sort of thing was foolish, especially with a footman. Again,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: this like, I don't want to kissing other men? Why girl?
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Examine that? Why?
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Also, can we examine why a footman is so
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: much worse than any other man?
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Like, come on, come on, I guess Moraine's just not
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: in the feet the.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Wrong book series, okay, chapter twenty six, when to Surrender
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: and our symbol is the black Aja two faced thing.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: The one last thing I think we got was that
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: this boy lady and his son is still a candidate
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: because he was born one day after the prophecy while
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: there was still snow on the mountains. It within the
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: ten day window. So at this point they're like, ooh,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: this is a good case for once we found someone
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: who fits one of the criteria, which is being born
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: in the right time frame.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: And reasonably close to Dragon Mount. Like this is the
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: closest hit they've had yet.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: We know he saw the sun rising over Dragon Mount.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: They don't know if he was on the slopes of
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Dragon Mount, and we later find out that he's you know,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: in a village, yeah, two miles away, So he doesn't
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: quite qualify, but you know, pretty damn close.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: They're excited.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: That's they're excited. They're excited for now they think he's
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: a good candidate.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: It's a false positive, but it is at least giving
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: a positive signal for the time being until they can
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: get closer. So we switch over to a land perspective.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Which is interesting because the last chapter had land helmet
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: on it but wasn't a land perspective and this one
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: has the black a jaw symbol and has this land POV.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is interesting. I would have done it the
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: other way around, but.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: A lot of a maybe the other way would have
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: been the hint that marine was black.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: It's pretty obvious at this point that she's not one
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: of Tamra's searchers se yeah, Land is being mister steaky, right.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: He's trying to avoid anyone and every one, And he
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: spots Issel and Miaron talking together, and clearly Miarn gives
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: the order to Iselle, go get the princes, you know,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Brice and Dirk and bring them.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: To me and then I will help you.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: He watches that exchange happen. Yeah, exactly, see. He watches
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: that exchange happen, but two for a way to hear it.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: But he sees that exchange happen, he sees a ultimately
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: fatal order geit given and take him.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: And at one point he thinks to himself, only Buu
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Khama had held him here, Boukama in a dream, and
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: I was trying to figure out I didn't really know
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: why those were holding him here Boukama just as an ally.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: So he doesn't go commit suicide, right, But what dream
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: is he talking about?
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: The dream of reclaiming Malkir. He's being tempted, right. We
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: saw in his last perspective that he doesn't want to
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: accept this. He wants to refuse it, but part of
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: him is questioning if he's right to refuse it, and
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: he said he needs he needs to go talk to
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: book about this. He's like, I kind of I don't
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: know what to do. I need to go. Boukama has
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: a right to dreams, right, Boukama has a right to
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: tell me if I should give this up or take it?
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Do I need to swallow my pride then accept the
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: raising of the Golden Crane, accept what my Kurrna year
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: is doing to be Like, do I have to do
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: that for Bukama and this dream? Or can I continue
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: to be a stoic lone warrior who's going to go
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: suicide in the blight eventually and never lead men to
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: reclaim Malkir, Like that's the dream and Bukama is the
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: lynchpin and he never gets to have that conversation with
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Bukama before he dies, and that's why. And then Azelle dies,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: and so you know, the queen doesn't want to do anything,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: so like everything dies. It's not just Land's vision, but
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: that's the dream. This is the dream of reclaiming Malkir.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: That it will take another twenty years a dragon reborn
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: and one nineve Almira to rekindle.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: I think there's one ninive Almera is doing ninety nine
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: percent of that work there, you.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Know, pretty much pretty much. Rand is there as an
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: excuse to keep Land going for the intervening twenty years
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: while Ninive grows up. Because Ninive is currently six, she's
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: not quite ready to convince him to tank back the
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: you know, a huge chunk of the blight. Yet she
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: needs a little bit more seasoning. Also puberty, thank god,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I know, right, Like she's a lot younger than him,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: She's twenty years younger than him. You know, he's a
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: reasonably adult person now, but they have a pretty big
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: age gap. So she's she's just not ready for all
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: that responsibility quite yet. But Rand is arguably even less
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: capable of doing his part. So again, we just need
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: twenty years before either of them can contribute whatever percentage
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: they're going to contribute. You're right, Ninive is ninety nine percent.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: About all Rand is doing at this point to shitting
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: his pants, you know, like he's literally ten days old,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: like that's his only goal in life is to.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Eat and you know, sleep, shit, that's it, mostly sleep.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: He's a potato, yes, exactly, a leaky potato. Oh three
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: months old, sure, it's still basically a potato.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. It's a potatoes the window.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: At this point, he's I think achieved giggling.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Right, right, this is after three months, you're no longer
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: in the fourth trimester, where you're still basically an external fetus.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: You've officially exited the fourth at three months, you have
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: finished the fourth trimester, right, right, So yeah, he's officially
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: achieved like actual human baby. He's no longer a larva.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: He's gotten past the larval stage of being a baby
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: and is now like a regular infant.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: I think it is the marsupial stage, because like we
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: don't have a pouch, but they're still kind of attached
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: at the teeth, you know, like for those first three
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: months they can't really do anything but be held and nursed.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the pouch is just an external uterus
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, right, It's like a couple
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: of different ways to get at the same basic goal,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: like warmth and food, warmth and food, warmth and food.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I do find it it's interesting the way they
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: go from this internal uterus to an external uterus to
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: no uterus, but still having the nipple, which is still
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: kind of providing nutrition and still kind of making the
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: baby part of the mother's body at that point, right,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: because that's where it's it's still relying on the mother's
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: body to provide nutrition. It's not providing its own nutrition
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: at that point. It can't process its own food.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, marsupials are wild. I mean everything in Australia is wild.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: But is this transition phase between like no and then
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: and then? I always wonder why, what is the benefit
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: of the marsupial state, Like you just don't have to
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: bear the child internally.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: It probably, yeah, makes delivery a lot easier. When they're
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: you know, the size of a literal, not even a potato.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, they're like insect size at that point. Like
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: they're real tiny when they're born.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they're yeah, like an inch or three long, like, yeah,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: very small, and they have to like crawl along the fur.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: And it's like this whole journeys it's a good you know, crucible,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: like are you strong enough to get from here to there?
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Like okay, well, maybe it's worth investing the rest of
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: the energy, like with the milk.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: And all of that, you know, if that makes sense.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, cutting off the week before they suck too much
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: of your ability to make another one is like a
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: strong evolutionary gauntlet.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: No, I mean it's it's why you know, spontaneous abortion
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: is very common in women, right because like one in
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: six pregnancies.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Common, very common, which is why I regular, you know,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: legislating that is a terrible, terrible idea.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because lots of those happened before you even know
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: you're pregnant. It's kind of how has always been for
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: the diarity of being the species and beyond. But yeah,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: it gets rid of the whole egg thing if you
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: have the because you can have an easy berth, but
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: also not the vulnerability in egg. Right, That's what the
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: marsupial thing gets you, is the ability to essentially bring
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: something as fragile as an egg with you everywhere.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: And why isn't it more common because Australia is special.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Also, Marsupials, I think, are just an older form of
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: life that has gone extinct in a lot of parts
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: of the world. Right, we have like one in South America, right,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Like what's in Australia is what's left. Mammals are a
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: different era of experimentation. I don't know, We're like back
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: in the nineties that's like from the six.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: The fact that you think that's more modern just dates
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: to you.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: I was just trying to pick some relatively near dig
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I was trying to like relate biology to fashion. I
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: was just trying to like pick a ridiculously different scale
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: and like, what are some good decades that are like
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: a part? But are you know? I don't even know,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Like when I feel like I should know the relative
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: difference between when mammals and marsupials evolved, but I don't.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: The Foji is saying is back when Antarctica was habitable,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: So that was a long time ago. Yeah, because it's
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: not an inhabitable when it's at the South Pole. It
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: has to be elsewhere on the planet in order to
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: be inhabitable.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: You know what kind of freaks me out is evolution
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: and geology happen on about the same time scale.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Very related phenomena. Geology determines the pressures that shape evolution
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: in so many ways, So like the joining or breaking
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: up of a super continent drives evolutionary diversity splashing outward.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's very much cause and effect system there.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, what was I watching the other day?
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: I was watching Fantasia the other day, which is from
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: sixty four, that's when Fantasia came out, because I've watched
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: it maybe a fuck ton as a little kid, and
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: I was watching it, you know, with my husband just
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: for funzies, because we wanted to, you know, watch it.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: And there's a sequence where they talk about the dinosaurs. Right,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: there's the whole section with the evolution of life up
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: through dinosaur times, and they ended with they have a
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: little intro section, right, and they ended saying, we don't
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: know what happened to the dinosaurs to kill them all off,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: And I'm like bullshit, and like wait, in sixty four,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: we didn't know, like shit, we figured it discussion and
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: I had never really thought about like they people were
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: making colorized animated art before we knew about the fucking
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: dinosaur impact. Like holy shit, that just I don't know,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: putting it in that relative scale blew my mind.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: They had to find the iridium layer all across the
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: world at the same depth before they put it together.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: And then once they knew about the iridium all over
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: the planet, which only comes from you know, it can
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: only be sprinkled even like that at a layer if
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: it came down from a comet, right, which is where
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: iridium you know, it's not that common on our planet.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Then they found the crater later with satellite imagery right
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: and put to and found the satele and dated the
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: crater to the same age and put two and two
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: together and said, oh, that's about the time the dinosaurs died.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like and the way they write it, it almost
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: sounds like they haven't even found the KT barrier in
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: any way, like yeah, but it was like, I mean,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: it kind of like went away. It's whatever.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: It was found in nineteen seventy eight while drilling for
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: oil and gas deposits. Thank you, samon.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Asai that the iridium or the KT boundary.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: The impact creator was found in nineteen seventy eight, not
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: the iridium.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: So everything about that, all the science about that, all
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: the discoveries, all the papers, all the bitching, all the
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: back and forth, all the drama, all the conferences deeply
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: far in the future when Fantasia was being written and
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: put out, and it's just so true to be you
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: mean that there was a time when people like genuinely
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: were like, we don't know what happened, Like I just
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I know that's true. Intellectually, but it was just such
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: a weird emotional like, wait a second, I haven't watched
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: this movie, like since I got into science.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: LA's when I watched this movie, I was like eight, right, Like, ah.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: I mean I remember in my lifetime them figuring out
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: what killed the dinosaurs. I remember growing up not knowing
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: what killed the dinosaurs like that I had in my lifetime.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Ah, samon Esai, You're such a brown Aja. The famous
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: iridium layer at the Cretaceous Tertiary boundary was first discovered
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty. Oh my god. Yeah.
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: See, like when I was a little kid and this
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: stuff was was hot new shit. It was one of
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: those things where like I just figure it's hot new
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: shit to me because I'm a little kid and everything
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: in the world is hot new shit, and it's just
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: the world expanding. As my brain gets bigger and I
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: pay more attention, Like appreciating how hot and fresh that
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: actual science was when I was a little kid is
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: kind of like whoa, my galaxy brain has nothing on
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: the feeling I'm having right now.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Oh man. It is the sensation of discovering something that
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: is just like the sensation of tripping and falling down
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: the stairs.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Like lamb is arn is science.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, gravity's also science. And if someone trips you and
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: pushes you using the One power, he's still going to fall.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: But he has the reflex is necessary to not break
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: every bone in his body when falling downstairs, which is
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: to go limp and let physics do what it will
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: do to you instead of trying to like fight and
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: control and taken intense up and Daniel bring he should
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: have died, but he doesn't die for a lack of
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: because it's not necessarily luck that allows him to survive
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: this fall. We see him take the only action. But
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: that is a martial artist reflex, right, Normal regular people
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: tense up and don't they should loosen up until they're
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: halfway down the stairs. A true martial artist, someone who
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: really genuinely understands their body and how to fight and
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: where they are in space, will immediately go lip. And
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: you know we know that about him, but in case
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: you forgot, he's like that.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And of course he was tripped by Miron naturally, Yes,
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: she heard him. She was embracing the One power, so
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: even though he was being too quiet for anyone normal
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: to hear Moraine's assumption later is that she was holding
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: the power and therefore she had her you know, heightened
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: senses and hurt him and then you know, didn't have
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: to follow him or anything, just use the one power
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: to trip him when he was at the top of
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: the stairs.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Also, he was probably already on her hit list anyway
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: because of the luck thing. So she's like, how convenient
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: that you're alone in the hallway where no one else
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: can see what happens.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: No, because she does tell Rain like, kill him right
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: this time right, which implies that he hired the guy
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: who tried to kill Land last time.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Sure, I'm just saying she wants that man dad one
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: way or another, and he's giving her the perfect opportunity, so.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Why not so and then that terrible line, come on, man, Dragonrin,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: it's your man Bookama, he may still be alive. That's
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: a rough phrasing.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Like this message is from a deceased crawler. Yeah Gun,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: You're like wait wait no the implications no no, no, no,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: no no, and.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Then yes, yes so, And then he has the thought,
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: how could he let anyone close enough to do this
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: because he thought it was his buddy Rain right, he
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: looked you know how he would have sent someone drawing
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: a dagger, not if it was his buddy drawing a
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: dagger and what he thought was a defense.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I know. You feel your friend at your back,
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: drawn knife, You assume that that means you're about to
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: be in a back to back fight together.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Right Not? Yeah, you put your back to him and
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: he stabs you in the back. Yeah, Bucommam might not
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: even known he was betrayed.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. He didn't know he was on
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: a sneaky mission that might get him stabbed in the back.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: He had no reason to expect that. And then before
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: he has a chance to be upset about it, he's dead.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: And yeah, Land goes from being on the edge of
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: running away from everything because you know, his childhood rapist
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: is trying to marry him to her daughter, to running
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: straight at denies to die with no regard for any
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: of the implications, right, the loss of Boukama, Because we
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: were just saying, like, what he holds him here is
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Bukama and a dream, and he wanted to talk to
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: Bookama about that dream. And now he can't talk to
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: Boukama about that dream. So every single thing he was
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: doing to keep this house of cards up is gone,
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: so he's now on a completely different mission and trajectory.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: And yeah, by the time he's able to slow down
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: and think about it, his intended bride is dead and
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: beyond his ability to choose to run away from. You know,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: he becomes Moraine's warder in a lot of ways. In
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: this moment. The loss of Boukamma marks the beginning of
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: land being a drift in a way that lands at
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: being her word.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I mean I would say this is the
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: transition period, right, because he's not really her warder till
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: she goes and gets him at the fire into a blog.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: But this is, yeh, a transition phase.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it frees him from his previous obligation and really
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: sets him because I think, I think at the end
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: of this he's riding off to go dying the blight.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, but he also at this moment runs to Moraine
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: to address her and says, you're the problem. What's going on?
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: You fix it, you explain it, right, Like without Bukama
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: as a north star, Moraine becomes his north star. Even
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: if yeah he does, yeh, think he's running off into
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: the blight after this, still she's the first person he
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: goes to, granted to be mad at her, not to
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: ask for her help, but still there he goes.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: And she immediately says like, hey, it wasn't me, it
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: was Morine. You know she saw you. She was more
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: dangerous than you think.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: Right. She basically says, Oh, that confirms a lot of things.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: And let me let me now lay out to you
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: what was a puzzle is now a picture.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: M And then she sort of and it makes her connections, right,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: she connects all the ideas that she's been hearing about that, Oh,
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: they don't understand what's actually going on. They're just hunting
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: lucky men. They're just hunting men they think, you know,
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: because people who can channel often are reported as lucky
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: rather than because they don't realize what they're doing. So
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: they just seem to have really good luck.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but then Land makes a mistake. He makes a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: big young person judgment error, all eyes to dire dangerous.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: Zella's safe enough for the moment I saw her on
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: my way here, hurrying somewhere with Britain Dirk. If you
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: had run after her and tried to save her the
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: second that Moraine said she's with a black Aja, you
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: need to get her away from her right now. If
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: he had done that, all three of them might have lived.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: That thirty forty five seconds that they spend their talking
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: might have been the difference in being able to change
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: the entire outcome of this. But he's mad about Pukama
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: being killed, which is fair. I'm not saying he made
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: a dumb mistake. I'm just saying Moraine's not the only
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: one who leaves a trail of bodies behind with the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: way that she makes snap decisions. They're both twenty years younger.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Totally, totally, So she figures out, like, where would he
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: have a private meeting, which is up on this roof
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: because that's we saw them having that private meeting earlier
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: with Land, right, so that's sort of the that's his
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: private space. And so she runs up there and we encounter,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: you know, she interrupts a murder essentially.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she goes from nervously fingering her knife when Land
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: bursts into running into the situation with knives to die,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: being like how am I gonna deal with her? And
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: she's so much stronger than me, she's so much older
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: than me, that she ends up using that knife at
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: knife and she's like, this won't do any good against land,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: but it will do you some good against this bitch
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: who turns.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Her back on you. And she thinks you're not a
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: threat because you can't channel.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's afraid. She wish a swan was here.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: But all you have is your water. You don't have
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: your your wife, but you do have your water. And yeah,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: she arrives absolutely mid murder. We are like the mustache
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: is being twirled. The bad guy's soliloquy is like on
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: its third paragraph. Yeah, Marin is taking a little bit
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: too long to do this if she wants to not
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: get cotton.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: In act, she's monologue. Yeah, she's monologue. Also interesting how
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: powerful she is, Right, she must be one of the
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: most the strongest. I said die around at this moment,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: that she can pick people up and float them. That
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: she's stronger than Moraine. Marine's odd at her full potential.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: But she's stronger than Moraine at this point, so she
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: must be just really high on the power scale.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: Yet another eyes to Die loss that helps bring down
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: the overall amount of power that the White Tower has
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: to draw. Granted, she's black Aujo, so she's not truly
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: an asset, but a lot of high powered eyes to
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: die die in this book, and over the course of
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: the next few months, like the White Tower really stares
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: steps down its headcount and total strength in this book.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean this is when the Black Aja is
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: going full murder hobo basically.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, peak murder hobo at least within recent centuries.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Right, they're taking down anyone who knows anything about the
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: back the Dragon Reborn. Yeah, she has a strength of
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: fourteen to two, only a little bit below Moraine's ultimate strength,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: so she's essentially as powerful as Moraine is at full power,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: just a little bit.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, I was gonna ask what is Moraine's number at
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: the end, let's.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: See Moraine and uh, well we're not We're assuming not
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: with the bracelet.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, just her natural strength thirteen one, okay,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: fourteen two versus thirteen one, So yeah, Naron's strong, very strong.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: And then she was reduced to sixty six fifty four.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean one essentially, that's one means that's
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: the top ranked powerful is said Ee in the Tower
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: before the series started.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Mirin is a two. And there's just not
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: a lot there's not a lot of competition up there.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: It's very rarefied air as far as the ranks go.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: So yeah, we have a scene of a fight here
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: that kind of reminds me of Mogeti versus ninety even
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of whiz where.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: Oh hold on, I have a list here I want
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: to go through. Uh so obvious, okay, whatever? Coolinda wise
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: one Alida. These are thirteen months Alida, Lianne, Moraine, Rayan,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: which is a wind finder, Romanda so Elena Romanda or
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: it's our Romaine Suan and Zaria who's a kin. And
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: then fourteen to two, we've got a bunch Aisha Bera, Sitalia, Cosain, Galina, Christine. Uh,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: let's see Laurel, Liam Leandren, Miron Pavara, Renee Corley, Sarin
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: uh Shiriam you kiri. Right, So that's that's a good
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: number of sort of our top level.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, I have to go back to
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: another line. So back in the chapter and answer, there
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: was a line of foreshadowing that I wanted to point
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: out that I forgot to point out. Swan and Marine
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: are talking and Maureen says, Sierra and herself can toss
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: her kat swayn from the top of the tower for
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: all I care. That's a little bit of a bummer
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: foreshadowing given that she has to watch multiple people get
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: tossed off the side of a tower.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I didn't even think about that. I was trying
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: to related to cod Swain, but yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: Some eyes that die bitch can throw this person off
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: the side of a tower for all like it's I
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: don't know. I saw that and I was like, oh,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: you're about to have a very traumatic experience with someone
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: getting thrown off of a tower, multiple someones. Actually, I
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: forgot to mention that line.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: So and then you were saying that this fight reminds
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: you a lot of Ninieve and Mgeddion, just in that.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: One of them has a lot more confidence than the
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: other one, and there's a lot of power whirling around
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: and a lot of different weaves and the slice and
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: the stabbing that are all power based. Obviously they're more
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: it's obviously a very different fight in a lot of ways.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: But Morain is very much Ninive here. She's doing her best,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: she's struggling to keep up, and she ultimately has to
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: resort to physical violence because the one power is too
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: evenly matched.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not just trying to cut each other off
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: in the power, they're also slicing each other's weaves, right,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: and so it's like a it's almost it's a more
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: complicated fight in that way, but it feels very similar.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: I see what you mean.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Well, that's why it was part of the same. It's
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: because they are like snapping each other's weaves back in
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: the because they're trying to get to artifacts in the
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: museum fight scene, right, Like, so it's really parallel in
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: the sense that they've got like the spiritual leaves for
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: the power and also the like physical weaves for objects
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: or in this case people, and they'll be snapping back
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: into them. And yeah, so it's just again, Morain and
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: Ninive have so many parallels across their lived experiences. It's
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: just like, there's one way to be a strong woman
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: who's in rand in Land's orbit while the world goes down.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: And what do you think Land is thinking now seeing
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: Rain be a trader and realize he's probably the one
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: who killed Bukamo.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: I mean a level of rage and fury and skill
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: has just been unlocked in Land that was not there before, right,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, because he has no one to protect.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: Feels like a level up moment. Yeah, and he's never
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: been able to beat Rain before.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: He's never been able to beat Rain before. But that
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: motherfucker just stabbed his only living dad. Like and also
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: as Land says, you know, like you you give up
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: when you're dead, right, Rain and Mirror and both give
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: up on the fight before their opponent is actually dead.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: They do not double tap. They both say, I'm bigger
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: and powerfuler and more skilled. I don't need to worry
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: about you once I have you below five percent. And
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: as anyone who's ever played D and D or other
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: tabletop nos, like, it doesn't matter how few hit points
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: the enemy has, they can still fire the weapon and
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: hurt you. But yeah, particularly with Land having his one
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: dad's bodies still warm on the floor from the sky,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: you know, killing him, Yeah, Rain didn't stand a chance.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Land is thinking if I like, because Lande has already
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: fought like he has nothing left to lose. He already faisik,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: he has nothing left to live for, and now he
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: truly doesn't have anything left to live for, Like he's
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: looking at Rain going today, I beat you.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: You know, and that's actually a pretty good strategy when
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: you have an icid eye. They can heal anything but death.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: It's like, sure, take whatever grievous wounds you need to
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: take in order to win.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a gut wound takes fifteen minutes to kill you.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: That's plenty of time for your Isidi companion to stagger
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: over and stop your blood from being poisoned.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Here's the line that she says, see if you
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: can make certain of the younger one this time? Right?
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: So that does seem to imply that Rain set up
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: the assassination attempt on Land earlier in the book.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, for sure. Also, mir And starts chatting with her calmly.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: That's a Mogedian move when she's fighting Ninive, and Ninive
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: uses that information to go, oh, she's actually distracted in straining,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: whereas I think Mirrn's just doing the bad guy thing,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: bad guess halliloquy stuff, and you know, basically threatens to
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: torture Moraine. Morain never once thinks of trying to kill
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: the woman until things get out of hand.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't really understand that.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: Because you know they're gonna do a little mutual question.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: She thinks she's gonna uncover the entire Black Auja from
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: a single torture session with this one woman. She does
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: not understand how hard it is to torture people. She
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: does not understand how the Black Aja is organized to
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: prevent that sort of a massive data breach. She's overestimating
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: her ability to handle this woman, I think, is what's
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: going on there. And like Lande does lose this fight
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: until he doesn't. Right, Land is losing until he wins.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he does say Rain is better, like Rain
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: is better. He just sort of he wounds Land's sword
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: arm and then says, ha, I've won. You can't beat
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: me without that sword arm, And Land goes, want to
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: bet I didn't come here to win to kill you
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: very much. Yeah, same same philosophy that keeps him going
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: in the last battle, and the same the same determination
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: that lets him win the last battle is used here.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: It's like, if I'm still alive, I'm still trying to
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: kill you. That is simply all that is to me.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: I am Landman dragon.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: In Miron drops the child over the edge, kills the
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: child first because he's the most you know, he's the
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: lucky one. She's the one that's most important for her to.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: Kill, right, the other two are witnesses, but that is
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: the central murder that she's supposed to achieve.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: She kills the father and he just is pissed obviously
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: because he just watches son die, right, and he knows
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: there's nothing he can do, So, I mean, that's that's
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: a rough death at that point.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: To be held motionless while your child is lifted up
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: over a void and dropped is probably about one of
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: the worst things that can be done to a person's mind. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: you're gonna stare murderous daggers and have no fear of
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: falling yourself for the rest of your life when that
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: is what just happened. Like it's this book is still
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: light and fluffy and full of fan service, and then
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: there's like horrifying, like triple homicide happens like at the
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: oh so light and fluffy.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, if Time is a horror novel, it really
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: I think it does better when it leans into that.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like I the world is horror.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: It really is, totally, totally and somewhere along the way
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Azelle goes from being a willing messenger to a tied hostage.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: I never quite catch when she gets tied up because
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: she's just standing there at first, right, because initially it
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: says Britt and Dirk are standing by the reel, twisting
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: feudally against bonds and gags of air. Zelle was frowning
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: at the prince and his son and is talking petulantly
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: like and so I don't see, Oh you did not
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: do well enough killing the spy reen mir and said
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: calmly as she wove a gag of air to stop
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: up a mouth and bonds that held the girl stiff
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: and wide eyed. I literally highlighted that line because it
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: was in the middle of other things I wanted to read,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: and I just missed it. I have no reading comprehension. Guys,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: I am a hack and a fraud.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: There's a lot here, I mean, yeah, here Izelle was trembling,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: snuffling and weeping and staring wide at it where the
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: boy had fallen.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: That's after she's been tied up.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just the way that's written, it always made me
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: think that she's still just standing there, frozen in horror.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: I always missed that she's already been tied at that point.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: But yeah, she's a witness, and essentially as soon as
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: she goes to me and Amer and does I say
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: users of messengers she's saying, and I'm going to kill
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: this girl too. Oh, I don't know why she's so
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: cavalier about racking up bodies. It seems like there was
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: again a less body count way to get these men
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: alone than to bring this princess into the picture. Couldn't
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: you just send a servant to some of them and
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: then dismiss the servant before you start doing murder shit, Like,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: wouldn't that be less work?
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe she was going to use compulsion of some sort
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: to trick her mind.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: Then why doesn't she?
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, Like I just yeah.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: The Foujie's theory that she's in it for the love
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: of the game continues to hold the most water, even
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: though that feels completely out of character with the subterfuges
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: of the Black Auja is expected to operate with.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she just seems to be a particularly murder
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: happy and who knows what kind of cover story she's
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: planning on n acting right like.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: I'm ahead canon that she's gonna be severely grilled and punished,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: if not executed by the Black Auja for how cavalier
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: she is with racking at bodies on this little trip north.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: I could think some story about bris Is cheating on
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: his wife with her and she threw the baby over
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: and revenge he took them both out, like you know,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: some cover story like that.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know, don't think that that would be what
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: they would come up with. No, I don't know, no, no,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: I just she's really cartoonishly villainous.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: There is a bit of twirling mustaches moment here, but
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: you know, it has to be very obvious to marine.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: There can't be any question about whether the Black Auja
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: exists or whether the Black Aja is evil.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah and so yeah. Somehow, in the course of Dirk
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: getting dropped, Moraine also gets hit with a particularly bad
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: backlash of her own power or something, and like can't
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: channel for the rest of the fight. Oh no, she
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: gets shielded.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: That's what happened.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: Somehow, she gets pushed over, hits her head, loses the power,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: gets shielded, and at that point Miern assumes, well, I've
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: shielded and nice to die. Surely she can't do anything
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: to me and turns her back.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that Mirn hits her over the
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: head with air. Right, Miren is slashing the weaves and
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: then just like I mean, it.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Seems like something hits her in the head for sure.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: She diverts her flows to try and rescue the boy,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: at which point she's not defending herself anymore and she
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: gets knocked over the head ah by Mirren And yeah, yeah,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: that's what she sacrifices herself basically to try and rescue
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: the boy at the last minute.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then Miren has a little bit more power
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: to hit her with because she's releasing the waves on
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: the child. Yes, and so yeah, the marine hits the
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: ultimate rock bottom. She could not channel. She had no
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: courage left, no strength, only determination basically how she's going
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: to feel. Right before she plunged through a red stone
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: doorway with land fear tangled in her arms.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it says she plunged her belt knife, doesn't
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: say she drew it, doesn't say she pulled it out.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: She just drives it into her back.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: Look, she's not paying a lot of attention her her
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: mind is oscillating in and out of consciouness, but her
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: hands know what to do. And yeah, she uh stabs
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: a bitch in the back. Sometimes you just got a
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: shanka bitch, you know. You're down to pure desperation and
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: no power, but you still have eight.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: Inches of steel, and it goes right into her heart.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: She drops dead pretty much instantly.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: Marine's a cold one. She's never killed a person in
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: her life that we know of, with any means whatsoever.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: As far as we know, she has never been directly
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: and intentionally responsible for someone's death. And now she is
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: just one shot at this bitch, and before she can
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: process that, she has to grab Azelle, who gets dropped
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: on I'm assuming like a round, skinny.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: Railing, yeah, or just the edge of a you know,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: ninety degree ledge type situation.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: Only her toes, like the entire bulk of her foot
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: is like, yeah, it's not enough. So we have an
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: instant slip, and Moraine, any bady little domain is able
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: to arrest the fall for a moment, but can't fix it.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: She can't solve it, and the the you know, Sam
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: drops froto into the lava and.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: Then I like that, Lamples or Waynes says, don't watch
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: a death.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: You don't have to the girl that he was trying
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: to avoid marrying of a child that he saw going
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: around as the child of a woman he cares about
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: in whatever twisted way, like that's a death that should
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: have you know, sucked him in with the horror of
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: it too, Like he saves them both from the trauma
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: of watching her go splat.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: And I wonder if he was trying to get there
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: in time and just didn't quite make it.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: One assumes. One assumes that as soon as he as
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: soon as Rain's body falls and lands sees Moraine getting
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: jerked to the railing and Zelle's hands going down, like
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: as soon as he's you know, he's like crawling and scrambling,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: and it just all happens too fast. I don't think
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: that he calmly got up and sauntered over to see
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: if she was all right, you know, like he was trying.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: And then yeah, you get that moment where he basically
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: says he was better. But I thought he was finished.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: He thought I was finished with only one arm. He
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: never understood you surrender after you're dead.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Right, And I mean, and that's even Marinas. She's holding
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: on to Izelle, like trying to calm herself enough to
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: grab the power as this girl is like screaming and
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: slipping out of her arms and there's this fall. It's
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: it's like the eyes of Dye test right, like can
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: you remain calm enough to remember how to channel.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: M hmm, And a lot of ways she does fail right,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Like if she'd been able to calm herself in that
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: moment and seize the one power, she could have saved
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: her life because she could have grabbed her with one power.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And that's perhaps one of the bitterest lessons
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: that you have to learn as an Isi. Diet's something
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: that kad Swayne clearly has internalized long before any of
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: this ever started, is that you can't save them all.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: You will fail even when I mean, that's what the
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: White Tower failing with Malkir is right, they failed. The
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: White Tower failed, Moraine Domadred Isidye failed. Even when you
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: do everything that is humanly possible and then it sometimes
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: you have to accept that you'll fail and you have
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: to like pick up and keep going, right, you have
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: to continue presuming the dragon reborn because the world is
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: still in the balance even though you failed despite everything
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: you tried. Like what a lesson her perfectionists to try
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: to internalize, you know, nice but also age right, like
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: Moraine in another twenty years would be enough, more strong, enough,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: more calm, enough, more practiced, that this would have gone
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: slightly differently. She would have been able to save at
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: least one of them, right, Like you see her greenness here,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: greenness as in newness, not as in isid eye obviously right.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: But yeah, the advice of don't watch a death you
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: don't have to, hey, all of TV, especially since Game
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: of Thrones, could we could we have this lightly less
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: on screen death, just slightly slightly whatever.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: We like blood and guts and death.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: So my TV, every time we turn it on, it'll
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: pop onto some you know, blank auto channel kind of thing.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: And for a long time it was this weird like
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: car repos thing, and we changed it to be like
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: a home remodeled deal. You can manage to change the default.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: And then we have like a power outage or a
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: system update, and I turn it on and one of
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: the first things I see is some fake out death
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: or you know, some like someone getting shot in a
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: preview for a plane hijacking movie. And I'm just like,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to turn the TV on so I
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: could get to fucking YouTube, and the first thing I
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: see is someone getting shot. Yeah, it's shitty TV. It's
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: not like a real death. But still, I personally am
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: not a huge fan. I'm not even going to be
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: forced into my face completely against my will or consent
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: or warning.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: I sat down to do my note this morning and
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: never turn on the TV and put on, you know,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: a horror movie, so you kind of expect there to
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: be death. But it opens with, you know, coffee shop
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: shotgun shooting. You know, a guy walks in with shotgun
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: and just takes out a bunch of people in the
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: middle of a coffee shop. And I'm just like, yeah,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: I wonder why I'm having some anxiety and crowds these days,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: you know, right, Like it's it's crazy.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: I at least want to be like aware of that's
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: what I'm walking into, Like just the abruptness of it.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then just god, the number of men I
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: work with who are angry and owned guns. That scares me.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: It's not great, it's great. And yeah, Bouji, I totally agree,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: two men kissing on TV would be so much.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: Worse, so much.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: I'd so much rather be surprised with a random shotguns
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: and coffee shops than the concept of two men finding companionship.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's it's rough. My I don't know, my
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: brain's not handling some of the tea as well as
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: it used to. I feel like as a kid.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: Retreat to Star Trek from like the nineties, it'll be
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: so softly. All the violence is just the laser hit
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: me and I flung myself across the room.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: Violence. Sometimes ships blow up and you have to you know,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: there are people dying on those.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's such cute little pirate technics that are
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: clearly out of scale with the side of the ship.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: It's just, ah, the unreality of Star Trek violence makes
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: me feel comforted. Yeah, Anyway, to wrap up this chapter,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: Moraine does a little emergency cremation because she has no
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: plausible explanation for why Miren's body is a body as
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: opposed to an is to die, So she just torches that.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: She can't prove she's black. She can't admit the black exists,
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: much less proof that she's.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: Black, right right, And Land of course is not going
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: to assume she's black Auja because of that, because they're,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: you know, orbiting their way towards more and more.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: Trust Saying he chose lives helps.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: It does create a certain level of bond, and there's
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: you know, why would Moraine do that?
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: And there's also a moment here where Miron is like
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: before she dies, is like what are you doing here,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: which you know, seems to indicate that the Black Aja
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: doesn't obviously doesn't know about Moraine, and so want yes.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, that does sort of confirm that Tamra was able
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: to leave them out of the interrogation session, and so yeah,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: Land heads off to you know, inform the proper authorities
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: that three important people have just been murdered, but not
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: why but not why just but you know, it's like
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: you don't want the guards to be the ones to
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: find the bodies. You want to be like, hey, I
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: just failed to save them. Here are the bodies. And
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: also they have to deal with Rain's body. Apparently she
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: does an emergency cremation on that too, So both of
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: them are so Bakama dies Bris and Dirk and Izelle
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: die Mirarn and Reen Vanish. It's a rough week for
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: the a Stei Shar Palace. Yeah and uh yeah, Land
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: basically calls up Marin for being very very cool and
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: collected and you know, we know that's just the is
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: of Die Mask doing its job and hiding all of
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: her torment on the inside, and that is the end
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: of the chapter and.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: Takes us to the final epilogue, the final Robert Jordan chapter.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it picks up the next morning. Everyone is
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: in mourning, everyone's ringing white. Eden's hair is, you know,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: raggedly cut short. She's intending on giving up on everything
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: to do with being in the world. The dream of
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: bringing out here back is dead, dead dead, Everything's gone.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Lady Eden is all fucked up in the head,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: like she's essentially out of it from now on.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: All of her hopes and dreams were pinned on her daughter.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: That was the whole focus of everything. With her dead, like,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: everything is ruined. Plus, you know, losing your child is
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: fundamentally going to ruin your life.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: And we don't get an follow up as far as
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: I can tell, any more mentions of her in the world.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like her retiring from the world probably
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: leads to death of a broken heart within ten years.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: Kind of deal, you know. So, Yeah, Swan and Moraine
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: talk it all out, figure out about what the black
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: Out's motivations are. That it's luck based and not timeline based.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: Right, sort of a lot of information that we've discussed
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: over the course of this novel, but there's a little
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: bit of like, yes, this is what was actually happening
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: the whole time. We get that the boy they were
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: investigating was born two miles from Dragon Mount Raheen. I
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: think his name is, so he can't be the guy.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And they work out that they are the only
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: two people in the world that know that the dragon
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: reborn is a baby, and also that a pogrom of
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: lucky men is coming. And then they decide what they're
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: going to do about it, which is to split their efforts.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: Right, you go back to the tower. I'm going to
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: go look.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: Because they can't search any faster together.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: No, but they could split up in both search.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: It makes sense to put someone in a position where
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: intelligence is getting gathered. Though the Blue Aja Eyes and
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: Ears network is more than just the tower, Like that's
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: a specific end to an information network. Doesn't seem to
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: play out in the end, But I see where they're
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: coming from logically here.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that whole thing about how people who are
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: learning to channel appear lucky, right, right, tens of thousands,
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: not hundreds of thousands. I said hundreds of thousands earlier,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: But it's only tens. Yeah, only tens, only tens.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: And it might not even get to ten. I mean,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: we don't actually know how many people die. We just
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: know that it's a period of heightened death. Swan mentions
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: casually like, ohyah, I should probably warnt that land guy,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: but he left to go to the blight. Anyhow, Hey,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: where are you going? Because Marin's saying, you know, buy wifey,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: I need to go get my work husband.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: Right, and another reinforcement that Codswayne's black. Aja. I really
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: think that like half the purpose of this novel is
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: to convince the people who were reading the books, because
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: this came out between ten and eleven, right, And so
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: I think in ten it was still like we still
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: weren't entirely sure if kat Swayne was black or not.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: And so I think he was trying to drop a
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: bunch of misleading clues in this book to get people
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: off track. And thinks she might be evil coming up
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: and like, I don't know she It's like he wanted
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: to say, oh, not all rude people are black, adjaw,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: even though you might think they are. So I'm going
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: to create a good character who's also really rude and
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: abrasive and annoying.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: That's the best I got to explain it. And then yeah,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: here's where Marine says she had made a decision about
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: him the first day she knew him if he turned
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: out not to be a dark friend, and she intended
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: to keep it. And again, the experience they just went
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: through prooves he's not a dark friend. The fact that
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: he instantly aligned with her in not dying to dark friends,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: that he was being attacked by dark friends kind of
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: confirms that he's not a dark friend.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: M hmm.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: It's just like when Swan, you know, picks the Supergirls
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: because they're the targeted by the Black Auja and she's like,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: well that means you art of them, because why else
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: would they target you in this thing? So yeah, she
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: chases after Lamb and finds him burning his hair rope thingy.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: The thing that tied him to Lady Asa on Lady
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: Eden and.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: His virginity hair, the hair of his childhood that was
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: cut off the first time he was raised.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, his virginity hair. He's like, I'm not honoring that anymore.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: Because it's the whole thing of like, she kept it right,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: and then she was going to give it to his
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: bride right, that's a whole thing. But then you know,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: he essentially was able to regain possession of it in
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: the aftermath of everything that happened and take it and
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: burn it, and thus, you know, in his mind permanently
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: sever himself from the potential of ever reclaiming malch heir
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: from the right to be a malcoury king, from the
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: right to call on people. He's just like, no, I'm
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: formally and completely done with.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: That, because he's betraying the traditions of Malchire. He's not
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: listening to this, you know, his rapist anymore.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the woman who forced him. I mean, yeah,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: we can argue over the culture and the initial encounter
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: may have been culturally appropriate. What she did with it
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: since then.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: Is not for sure. For sure, lots of debate there.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he's he's taking something that has clearly caused
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: him a lot of angst and is symbolically purging it
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: from his life with one of the most cleansing substances
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: of all fire, the fire. Yeah, exactly. And you know,
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: Mariane thinks of it as burning his future, he thinks
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: of it as burning his past. Either way, it frees
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: him up and yeah, he says, no one will sorrow
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: when I die, because those who would are dead already,
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: and she says, hold my tea, I will care about
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: you professionally.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: Only fools choose to die before they are before they must. Yeah,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: it's it's just a really good interaction where he's like,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna die. She's like, I can use you before.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: Then come with me. Let's fight. Let's go do a thing.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you about the inside information I have
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: on the war on the Dark One and the Dragon Reborn,
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: and give you a purpose besides dying pointlessly in the blight.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: Let me give you a chance to fight back, to
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: support the one who may be able to do the
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: damage to the Dark One that you can't.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: Right. And we also see right, his changing relationship to
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: the concept advice to die, right because he up until
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: this point has seen ice to die as entirely you know,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: political agents and spiders beaming in their webs. And he
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: even pushes back at first, saying I don't want to
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: be involved in white Tower politics and white Tower plots,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: and she says no, no, no, no, no. That thing that
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: we just experienced where we were fighting the same war,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: that's my entire career. That's my entire mission. That was
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: not a fluke. That is what I am here to
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: do is fight that same war that we like, you
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: didn't know that Ane to Dye could be on this level,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: but we are. And yeah, you want to die effectively
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: and he says yes, and then he doesn't die. By
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: the end of the books.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: I could argue that I think Rand brings him back
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: to life.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: Little Neo and Trinity kind of Yeah, that makes it.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: It's the moment where the battle turns and he dies
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: and Rand brings him back as someone who can stand
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: up and take down, you know, because he took down
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: to Mandred and he died for it. And I think
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: it's more powerful if he died for it and Ran
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: brought him back fair. But it's you know, that's that's
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: one of those things that like isn't necessarily in the text.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: You can definitely say like no Land survived, but it's
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: like he took a sword to the ribs and he
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: kind of fell. Ran like saw him fall. It's a
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: fake out death. This is the thing is like I
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: hate that Brandon Sanderson does fake out deaths. He does
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: them pretty frequently, and he does them in a way
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: where you think that character is legit dead because it
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: said so on the page, and later he's like, ah,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: just kidding, you know. And Land's death is like that,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: he dies on page and then he just stands up
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: later and he's fine, and it's like, was the death
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: that vaguely written? I don't think so, I think he died.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: I think he died, and I think and so the
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: only way for me to then have him stand back
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: up without saying I don't like that fake out death
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: that got put in there is that Rand, you know,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: And because Rand says something, he says, you weren't paying attention,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: and it's like he was he Were you not paying
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: attention because Land actually didn't die, or you're not paying
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: attention because Ran turned around and brought him back to
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: life when you weren't looking.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: So then why does a Gwayne's can't I be a
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: hero too? Line get to exist and hit hard?
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: I don't like fake out deaths.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: No, I don't either either let.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: Them be clever and wearing a piece of body armor
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: or let them die.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm not happy with either solution, right, Like,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: I really do think Land should have his death should
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: have been either more vaguely written or like he took
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: its sword and fell and like Rand sees him fall.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: That's always this weird you know. Do you see someone fall?
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: Do you see them fall to their death? Do you
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: just see them fall over? Right? Like it's such vague terms.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, Yeah, for another man, she would have left
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: most unsaid. But there were a few secrets between Water
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: and Eyes to Die. I mean we see that in
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: a hunt, right, they start to have like the first
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: fractures and secrets in their relationship in like twenty years, right.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because he falls in love with somebody else.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, we just I'm just saying we
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: know that, like what's between them as it's set up
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: here really doesn't change for the next twenty years. Like
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: he is let all the way in from the jump
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: and doesn't have any reason to question her until you know,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: he falls in love.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: There is this moment where they leave here and between
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: here and the beginning of Eye of the World, You're like, oh, well,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: there's been twenty years of just that, Like, yes, there's
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: been trials, Yes there's been tribulations, but they are loyal
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: to each other. Nothing has changed about the relationship there,
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: they've just become more the people that they are.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and uh yeah. Then Land expresses the word
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: bond the way he understands it, which is as an oath, right,
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: which coming from Melchurri, is basically magic. Right, malcury Oh
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: is a pretty damn potent and in the course of
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: doing that, he is the most proud and arrogant man
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: has ever been. What does she say on his knees,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: he made any king on a throne look meek mmmm mm.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: She would have to teach him some humility for his
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: own sake and a pond's sake. She's not ever going
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: to completely get over the childish nature of herself and
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: about it because it is part of her charm. And
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: then she, you know, surprises him with the fact there's
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: a little more. He doesn't act surprised, but still it's
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: more than an oath. But you know, he's given her
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: the kind of oath where like it doesn't matter that
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: she's adding magic to it, because he was going to
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: obey anyway.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: But but it's not about the oath. It's about the bond, right,
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: and the feeling of emotions, and of course he can
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: feel with her emotions better than she can feel his,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: because he's very stoic and stone. His emotions are much
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: more pushed down.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: I feel like, Yeah, she gets to experience what it's
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: like to have a warder for the first time. And
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: then he gives her a very rousing buried the Dead
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: and move on kind of paragraph talking about, you know,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: the opening of the book, right, he says, the battle
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: of the Shining Walls or the Blood Snow. I mean
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: that's the opening of the book, right, we're really book
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: ending that, right. He literally refers to not just the
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: event of the opening of the book, but the event
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: that is what both of them were doing at the
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: opening of the book, right, Like he was in the fight,
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: she was hearing the horns. He's referencing a moment that
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: they both very much have vivid memories of the battle.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the battle is huge.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then here's the best part. By the evening
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: of the third day, half we're dead or wounded. Had
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: I made different choices, some of those dead would be
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: alive and others would be dead in their places in war,
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: you say a prayer for your dead and ride on, right, Like,
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: that's the core of what Bashir tries to get across
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: to Piran and Rand. It's a core of what every
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: one of the great generals thinks at some point in
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: their internal monologues, Like it is a huge part of
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: the warrior Etho's brain. Thing that Jordan wanted to write
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: about is like, you're gonna make choices that screw up
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: and people will die, and you have to like move
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: on with those decisions. It's a huge part of what
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: Rand has to learn, right. Rand tries to cling to
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: every single decision that he could have made differently, and
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: it's you can't do, can't play. It's going to be
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: a general. If you're going to be in charge of
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: saving the world, you can't think like that. You have
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: to just understand that that's what it means to be
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: a king in is to die a dragon reborn in Omerlinen. Yeah,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: and then he asks where are we going to ride next?
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: And she says, literally back to where we just were.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: It's like the most anti climaxicle. Well, I actually took
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: a pick up my luggage right.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: Right, but then but then but then everywhere right, like
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: everywhere and anywhere.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, so I guess I guess I should just
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: read us out because it's a good readout.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, and yeah, yeah, yeah, I give us
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: a read out.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: Handing her arrows reins, he said, where do we ride?
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: First back to Chatchin, she admitted, and then to RFL
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: and so few names remained that were easy to find
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: the world if need be, we win this battle or
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: the world does. Side by side, they rode down the
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: hill and turned south. Behind them, the sky rumbled and
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: turned black. Another late storm rolling down from the blight.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: And the wind arose. I mean, yeah, just there it is. Ugh,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: that's the one.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: There, it fucking is.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just quick. Wouldn't take us any time, blow right
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: through it, and episodes will be so too short to
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: even put out.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: That was Check's notes. Episode eight of this book took
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: us eight episodes.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: Of twoish hours each, so you know, actually might do
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: it in one day, sixteen hours start to finish. Not
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: that far out of line. You got the number of
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: hours right, Yeah, like about sixteen hours is about what
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: I think it will take us.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: We're not wrong.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: It's just a crazy idea to try and do it.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: Was just a thought back in the day to try
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: and get it all done, do a marathon. Back I
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: think we were streaming more too, like we had a
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: bigger live audience of like, you know, twenty people would
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: show up for most of the recordings or some of
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: the recordings. And it was the pandemic times too when
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: I first thought about that, So it was like, oh,
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: people are stuck in their houses, let's just do a
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: day of streaming.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: Also, fun mile marker, this is episode five hundred and
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: ninety five.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: Ninety damn, yeah damn. Does that mean we're gonna hit
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: We'll hit six hundred. That'll be probably our last major
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: hundred round number? Yeah, yeah, six sixty six, bro six
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: six six is we're actually gonna get pretty close to
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: six sixty six. I don't think we're quite gonna make
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: it based on the episodes I'm looking at, but like
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: there are probably gonna be around sixty episodes in a
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: Memory of Light, based on breaking up the last battle,
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: based on just how it all falls out, right, Like
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: I think I think sixty episodes. Am I off on that?
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: Let me look at the calendar, it's all it's all
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: written out now.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: But in any case, tell us the end of our
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: Pure Jordan stuff.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: That was the end of Pure Jordan. I can't believe
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: we're done.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for being part of this
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: little side quest before we get into our final real
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: Chunky book. We will be off air for one week,
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: just to take our usual break between books. But we're
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: not going to do it Tangents because first of all,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: episode zero of the podcast was called New Tangents, so
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: that name's already been taken. And also we just hit
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: a Tangents and it was only eight episodes to get
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: through this book. So we're just going to take one
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: week off to allow me to maintain my publishing schedule.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: We will record next week for the sake of the lives,
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: We're going to take one week off from publishing, and
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: then we're going to be back with a memory of
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: light and all of.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 4: The wailing and gnashing of teeth that that entails.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: My olin is I've been trying to teach my wife
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: how to juggle and how to play chess, which are
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: two ways to frustrate her at the same time.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: So that's two different ways. One very intellectual, one is
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: very physical frustrating.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, you're done with you, You're done
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: frustrated with that, Let's talk about something else. And no,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: but she's doing amazing. She's she's picking up chess faster
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: than I thought possible and is cussing at the juggling
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: balls more than I thought possible. So uh, yeah, she's
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: doing really well at both. Fantastic fantastic, But yeah, I
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: think other than that, for me, life has been pretty
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: run of the mill.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: Has that heat wave of treating you?
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: I have central I see what heat.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: Wave love that for you? I told you about how
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: I fixed my window with a piece of fabric.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: Right, No, I don't think so, My god.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: So my laundry room, there's a window in it that
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: faces south, and I covered that with a white sheet
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and that helped. But there
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: was the door that faced east, the big window in it,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: and two a month ago, I put a sheet of
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: muslin fabric over it. And the house has stayed like
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: five degrees cooler per day. Oh nice, like it was
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: the most like that room has always been warm and
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: venting heat into the house, and the house does warm
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: out throughout the day. And I used to be that
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: I could keep the temperature inside and outside as much
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: as ten degrees apart, as much as ten degrees apart.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: Now it's like we're starting to close in on like
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen degrees apart. Like I am just so embarrassed.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: I didn't think of doing this soon. Like I've had
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: this fabric the whole time, but just block walking up
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: this one, you know, like eighteen by twelve hole that's
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: just letting this lava just pour into my house and
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: just put up this piece of white fabric. And because physics,
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: because albedo poof the house is suddenly so much cooler.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: It's like a cave. It was that one hole. I
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: feel like I plugged like a giant hole in the
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: side of my boat. And now I'm not sinking. It's
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: just been the most amazing reality check.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: The trick I've heard that's supposedly by physicists say that's
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: most effective is luminum foil on the outside of the
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: window because if you can.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: Reflect that light, I bet that would be amazing.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you reflect the light before it even comes in
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: your house, right, the white she's doing good job of
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: reflecting back out, but the light has already entered your
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: house and some of it is being converted into heat.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: And so if you can block it out one hundred
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: percent of it and you're probably getting like ninety five
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: percent of it, right, like, or who.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: Knows white is so effective?
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: Is white is very effective? Yeah?
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: The window, the window behind me, the purple behind me
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: that has light blocking fabric in it. The liner is
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: literal blackout fabric, and that has made a massive difference
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: in because this room points west. So when the sun sets,
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: I start getting baked out of this room, and this
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: window slows that down by almost two hours. That the
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: wall itself heats up, and the curtain can't help with
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: the fact that the entire wall has heated up. But yeah,
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: using the reflectance, whether that is simply white fabric or
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: all the way up to blackout or metal material, yeah,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: or yeah, putting like a solar panel over the window,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: or like something that my parents did when I was
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: growing up was they grew, you know, a nice shady
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: sheet of leafy beans, like runner beans, just like up
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: in front of the porch and just made a living
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: shade curtain that you know, goes away in the fall.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: Again, we have a I'm in a row home, so
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: basically the front of my first story is a glass
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: second story glass sliding door that opens out onto a
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: balcony and that's so the entire wall is basically glass, right,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: and so the sun definitely will bake us. But what
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: we have is blackout curtains with a white back, and
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: that does an amazing job of just reflecting the heat
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: right back outside.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: Just because of the physics, just because of the fact
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: that it's white. It reflects back all the frequencies. And
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: like if those frequencies don't get in the house in
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: the first place because they were making a bright white
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: square on the exterior. It's just it's like killing an
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: enemy in D and D before it can do any damage. Like,
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: you don't need to heal if the enemy is dead.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: It's like the strategy of like you don't try to
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: have every one of your characters fighting a different person
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: all pile on the same enemy, because an enemy with
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: one hit point can still destroy your ass, but if
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: it's dead, it can do zero damage whatsoever.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: The think of reflecting the arrow rather than healing from it.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: But yeah, totally, totally. It's just just don't even let
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: the heat in the house so they don't have to
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: deal with getting rid of it again. I don't need
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: a heat pump, right, I just there is no heat
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: to pump ah. So anyway reminds me.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: When I worked at the energy company, one of the
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: things we would get grocery stores to do was to
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: replace their light bulbs and the refrigerators because at the
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: time they were using incandescent bulbs, which essentially mini heaters.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: Right, those are like like one human is an incandescent bulb,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: or a chicken or whatever.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh, that's so much heat. Oh my god,
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: that's so much heat. Right, So you're you're essentially you
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: knowing yourself lighting these products, and to light the products,
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: you have to generate a bunch of heat that you
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: then also have to refrigerate away. And so you have
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: these energy intensive light bulbs creating energy intensive air conditioning.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: And so we pay them to replace, you know, and
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: they'd be like, we don't like the way it looks
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: on our product, and be like, I don't care. It's
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: going to save you so much money.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: Do you like the color green? Because uh yeah, oh
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: my god, that's ridiculous.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely just realized I'm not charging my laptop and
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: it's going to die if I don't go grab a.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: Charger, Go grab a chargerge I'll be right back.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: Then.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: They'll start talking about stuff that actually deserves to stay
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: on recording. It's a very slow out today, guys. Okay,
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: I'll keep I'll keep the physics discussion about windows for
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: the after show. Yeah, it's it's amazing, which just basic
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: principles of physics can inspire in your head sometimes like
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: wait a second, I don't need some fancy material, I
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: just need white white. We'll do it. Thank you for
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please rate
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app, and consider supporting
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt Spoilers is
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: a production of Fox and Raven Media. For more podcasts
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: from Fox and Draven Media, visit our website at Foxendravenmedia
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: dot com.