Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Marc Lamont Hill Speaks On Israel-Hamas War, International Law, History + More

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INTERVIEW: Marc Lamont Hill Speaks On Israel-Hamas War, International Law, History + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Morning, everybody is tej n V. Charlamagne the guy. We
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: the building. Yes, indeed got the brother Mark Lamont Hill.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Morning morning, y'all. Now, last hour we had Jonathan Green
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Black here, the head of the ad L, and you know,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: of course he's he's I would say pro Israel, that's
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: safe to say.
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  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yes.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, Mark, I was thinking about all the
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  Speaker 1: people that I know who've been to Israel, been to Pakistan,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: who've been speaking about this issue.
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  Speaker 4: For a long time, for a long time.
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  Speaker 1: Marcus Mark has not only just been one of them,
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  Speaker 1: Marcus taking bullets, you know, for speaking out and being
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: pro Palestine. Yeah, so what did you think that too
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: broad a question?
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  Speaker 3: I'll say one thing. There's some points where.
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  Speaker 2: Before we go that can we can you detail people
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: of what's going on there from your view because you
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: were there, Get to that let and then you can
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: talk about that so people can understand it first, because
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: you might not know this is a new hour, they
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: might not know what's going on.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: They connectcause John, I think, is replying to.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: The events that have taken place in Israel and in
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Gaza over the last week or two. And I think
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  Speaker 1: where he and I agree one hundred percent is that
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  Speaker 1: this is an awful and unprecedented tragedy. There's no way
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  Speaker 1: to even wrap your mind fully around what it means
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: for over a thousand people to be killed. Correct, the
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  Speaker 1: attacks that happened in Israel were devastating. As someone who
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: believes in justice, and as someone who believes in human rights,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: and as someone who believes that international law and rules
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: of war have to be followed, I would say, and
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  Speaker 1: I'm speaking for me and lots of other people, I'm
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  Speaker 1: almost representing my opinion right now that Hamas's attack was
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  Speaker 1: a violation of international law. As an organization rooted in
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Islamic principles, it's also violation of religious law to attack civilians,
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  Speaker 1: to attack innocence, even in times of war. If I
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: took the law off the table, just basic decency, I
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  Speaker 1: would say, this is awful.
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  Speaker 3: So we agree on that.
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  Speaker 1: Where we disagree very quickly is how we make sense
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: of how we got here and what we do moving forward.
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  Speaker 1: History didn't start on October seven, and oftentimes we see
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  Speaker 1: this in the United States when a target gets blown
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  Speaker 1: up or set on fire, or a police car gets
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: slipped over or whatever, whether we agree or disagree with
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: the action. At that moment, the media starts to say,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: look at these animals, look at these savages. I can't
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: believe they did that. And if you were to come
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: up from another planet and watch this, you would think
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: that history started on ferguson the night that shit got
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: set on fire. You would think that the world just
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: started at these moments, when in fact, there's a long
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: history that gets you there. Israel has been in apartheid
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  Speaker 1: state since nineteen forty eight years, yes, years. It has
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: been an occupying power since nineteen sixty seven, right, fifty
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  Speaker 1: six years, yeah, and it has been. It has held
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: the guys in people in particular, under siege since two
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  Speaker 1: thousand and six, seventeen years going on eighteen in January.
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  Speaker 1: So these are the things that get you there. And
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  Speaker 1: the people of Gaza are catching hell. This isn't ordinary, Hell,
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  Speaker 1: this isn't normal. Just inequality. We're talking about not having
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  Speaker 1: access to clean water, We're a potable water right, not
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: having access to schools, being constantly under siege, where you're
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: getting bombs, you're getting shot at, you're vulnerable to premature
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: death every single day. This is what they're dealing with
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: for the last seventeen years. And so when Hamaz emerges
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  Speaker 1: and engages in this activince, which is not excusable because
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I don't want everybody say he's trying to excuse me.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not excusing me. I'm saying it's inexcusable, right, But
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  Speaker 1: we have to understand where it starts. And when you
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  Speaker 1: put people in an open air prison, which is what
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Gaza is, it's an open air prison, you have to
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  Speaker 1: expect people to respond at some point. So whose fault
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  Speaker 1: is the condition, guys in? Is it Hamas? Because that
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  Speaker 1: hasn't Hama's been in control since six Hamasa. Yeah, I
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  Speaker 1: mean it's the right question, right, And what Jonathan would say,
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  Speaker 1: what a lot of pro israel folk would say, is well,
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  Speaker 1: you know, all the Jewish settlers left in two thousand
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  Speaker 1: and five, and Hamas took over in two thousand and six,
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  Speaker 1: and therefore, whatever happens, that's on y'all. Problem is Pilotitians
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  Speaker 1: have not had one minute, not one minute of self
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  Speaker 1: determination in those seventeen years. In other words, yeah, they left.
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  Speaker 1: It would be like if you were in a prison,
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  Speaker 1: and they say, Okay, all the guards left, but you're
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  Speaker 1: still in prison. We're still on the border of the prison.
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  Speaker 1: You still can't get out of the prison, right you
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  Speaker 1: STI don't have any more food, and we control it,
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  Speaker 1: right God. Israel controls Gaza by land, by air, and
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  Speaker 1: by sea. It controls the population registry, It controls the
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  Speaker 1: electromagnetic sphere. It controls everything that goes in and everything
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  Speaker 1: that goes out. It is military. It is effectively controlling
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  Speaker 1: or effectively occupying Gaza, just from the outside. And so, no,
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  Speaker 1: they haven't had an opportunity for self determination. They haven't
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  Speaker 1: had an opportunity to build. They are under occupation in
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  Speaker 1: a different way, but the same as the people in
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  Speaker 1: the West Bank. And so it is a very very
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  Speaker 1: very different situation. That's not to say that Hamas is perfect.
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  Speaker 1: There are lots of stuff about Hamas I disagree with.
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  Speaker 1: I disagree with religious rule in general. And Hamass is
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  Speaker 1: rooted again. They come from as As Jonathan accurately said.
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  Speaker 1: Their roots are in the Islamic Brotherhood of Egypt, and
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  Speaker 1: they do have a vision of freedom that is rooted
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  Speaker 1: in Islamic principles. I happen to disagree with with religious governments.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I agree with that. There's other critics that have this
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  Speaker 1: critice to have every government, but it's important to acknowledge
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  Speaker 1: that Hamas is a government, and you can't have it
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  Speaker 1: both ways. Sometimes they'll say, well, Hamas is a terrorist organization.
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  Speaker 1: You can't talk to them, you can't deal with them,
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  Speaker 1: you can't do this, you can't do this, and that
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  Speaker 1: kind of language makes it impossible to have a diplomatic
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  Speaker 1: or political solution. They make it seem as if the
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  Speaker 1: only thing you can do is blow them up because
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  Speaker 1: they're not a government.
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  Speaker 3: They're not a government.
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  Speaker 1: I wondered about that too when it comes to Hamas,
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  Speaker 1: because you know, they say they're a government, but their
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  Speaker 1: charter just says they want to destroy Israel and kill
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  Speaker 1: Jewish people. So it's like, can you negotiate with somebody
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  Speaker 1: if that's literally your charter. That's that's an interesting question.
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  Speaker 1: A couple of things. Hamas starts in nineteen eighty seven.
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  Speaker 1: As again, Jonathan said that accurately, they started in nineteen
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  Speaker 1: eighty seven as a nationalist group. Their goal was the
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: liberation of the entire land of Palestine. At some point
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  Speaker 1: they got to a space where they wanted to also
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  Speaker 1: be involved in politics. So nineteen eighty seven is a
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  Speaker 1: very different moment than two thousand and five, two thousand
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  Speaker 1: and six when they ran in these elections, when they
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: ran apart in these elections against Fatah. At that moment,
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  Speaker 1: their goal was still a free Palestine that for them
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  Speaker 1: meant getting rid of what they call design escentity, didn't
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  Speaker 1: mean a certain kind of vision of freedom that did
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  Speaker 1: not include the state of Israel as a Jewish state. Right.
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  Speaker 1: But Hamas over time was willing to have a unity
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  Speaker 1: government with the Palestinian authority, with the FACTA in particular.
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  Speaker 1: They were willing to engage in diplomatic relations. And it's
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  Speaker 1: dishonest to suggest that they haven't been engaged in Israel,
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  Speaker 1: that we can't talk to them the guys. If Israel
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  Speaker 1: want to blow up all of Hamas and all the guys,
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  Speaker 1: that they could have already done that, right. But they've
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  Speaker 1: always worked with They've always worked with Hamas, They've always
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  Speaker 1: worked with them since two thousand and six to keep
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the perimeters steady because they don't want instability. They don't
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  Speaker 1: want five or six groups fighting, right, So they've always
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: negotiated with Jimas so it's sort of designed to say
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  Speaker 1: that we just can't talk to them. I understand the
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  Speaker 1: concern that Hamas's vision of a solution for the political
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  Speaker 1: issue is different than israels solution for the political issues
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  Speaker 1: was different than the other party solution for the political issues.
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  Speaker 1: That's fine, But they are democratically elected government, and they
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  Speaker 1: have a right as a democratically elected government to.
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  Speaker 3: To negotiate and to have a worldview. And Israels are
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  Speaker 3: right to.
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  Speaker 1: Have theirs, but you can't undermine them as a government
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  Speaker 1: even if we disagree with them. I might say that
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  Speaker 1: thing that happened on October seventh was an act of
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  Speaker 1: terrorism inexcusable. I would say that, I am saying that,
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  Speaker 1: But that does not mean that it's impossible to have
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  Speaker 1: a diplomatic or political solution to this problem. We cannot
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  Speaker 1: pretend that the only way to solve this issue is
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  Speaker 1: to just blow everything up and to just kill everybody.
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  Speaker 4: Let me ask you a question. Now, you did say
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  Speaker 4: their attack was not.
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  Speaker 1: By the rules right of war in neither Israel's right.
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  Speaker 2: So now with Israel talking and I guess sending flies
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  Speaker 2: and pamphlets out and says, you know, we're giving you
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  Speaker 2: twenty four to forty eight hours to leave Gaza. We're
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  Speaker 2: going to start bombing Gaza. And I heard this morning
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  Speaker 2: on the news that said, you know, the hospitals are saying,
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  Speaker 2: we can't get out. We can't get these people out
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  Speaker 2: because by the time we try to get them out,
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  Speaker 2: they will die.
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  Speaker 1: Right yep.
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  Speaker 4: So, if let's say.
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  Speaker 2: Hamas is not following the rules, a lot of people say, well,
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  Speaker 2: why shit Israel followed the rules.
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  Speaker 1: Well, if we followed. The problem is if we follow
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  Speaker 1: that logic down, Let's say I can see both of
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  Speaker 1: those points. I don't, but let's say I did, right,
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  Speaker 1: then I could say, well, hamaskus say, well, we didn't
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  Speaker 1: have to play by the rules because Israel had u
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: under Leegal occupation for since nineteen sixty seven. They we've
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: been underseased since nineteen Since since nineteen we've been underseased.
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  Speaker 3: In two thousand and six seven.
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  Speaker 1: We've been we've been literally since nineteen forty kicked out
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  Speaker 1: of our homes, all the violations of international law. A
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: right to return is international law. Palestinians can't go back
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: to their homes. They were ethnically cleansing in nineteen forty
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: eight in the neckba right and somebody in the in
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: the Israel Kannessed, which is basically the Congress, said we
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: would to have another nekba right now. So that's a
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  Speaker 1: violation of international laws. The target and civilians, the refusal
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: to provide certain supplies as an occupying power as a
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: violation of international laws right now. Collectively punishing all Palestinians
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  Speaker 1: for the act of Hamas is a gross violation of
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  Speaker 1: international law and rules of war. Forced transfer of people
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: from one place to another, expulsion is a violation of
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the rules of war. And even Jonathan is saying they
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: would have a humanitarian corridor in the Egypt side of
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: their country. That is another neck But that's exactly what happened,
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  Speaker 1: and how you got refugees before the planners that can
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: put them out, it's not to bring them back. So yeah,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: the ideas to say that, well, yeah, Israel shouldn't play
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  Speaker 1: bout us because Hamas doesn't know if you play that game,
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  Speaker 1: the original rule breaker is Israel by international law and
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  Speaker 1: by all historical standards, so they don't they don't play
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: that game. But I don't think we should play that game.
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  Speaker 1: I think at all moments we should do the most ethical,
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  Speaker 1: the most just, the most fair, the most humane thing
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  Speaker 1: that is possible, and that right now is a ceasefire.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: That right now is a return of all hostages. I'm
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: talking to Hamas now right a return of all hostage
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  Speaker 1: from Jimas. It's it's stopping all violence right and it's
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: coming up with a political solution that allows Palestinians to
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: stay in their home. It is not yelling out as
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: members of the Israeli government have said, We're going to
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: shrink the size of Gaza because you can't. You can't
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: start a war with Israel and leave with the same
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: mind of land that you started with. Taking land by
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: force is a violation of international law, occupying occupying land
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: since nineteen sixty seven, violation right, I mean everything here,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: violation eighteen. Human rights organizations before all it started agreed,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: including Israeli human rights organizations like Bett Sellem, agreed that
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Israel isn't a Partheight state and it's been in Apartheight state.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: So somehow the global community standing up and being outraged
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: at what happened in Israel, that makes sense to me.
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  Speaker 1: But what doesn't make sense to me is how we
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: weren't outraged the day before when these things were happened
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: to Palestinian people, and for the last seventy five years
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: they've been happening to Palestinian people. And it doesn't make
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: sense to me why right now we're not equally disgusted
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: that over seven hundred at this point, I think it's
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: even eight hundred Palestinian children have been killed in the
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: last week. We changed the whole world for Ukraine and
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Russia killed about four u and fifty of those children
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: over course of a whole year.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: What is your thoughts with the US, you know, bringing
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: the largest aircraft carrier a ship out to show support
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: of Israel.
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  Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on that which you're saying?
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  Speaker 2: But the all the thing is, nobody said anything beforehand,
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  Speaker 2: but now it seems like they're getting support of the US.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: Whatich you're thought?
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  Speaker 1: Right? And part of the problem is a lot of
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: us were right. Three point six or three point eight
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: billion dollars a year agoes from the United States to Israel.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: We fund the occupation and that's why mereause, if y'all
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: wonder why you should care, because you pay for it. Right,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: this could not happen without anybody else's help, but the US,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the US has offered weapons. They've offered weapons to make
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: sure that israelways has the best weapons. They call a
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: qualitative edge. They've made sure that technologies come through. We
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: support this thing. What the US is doing right now
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: with the aircraft carrier is a very small drop in
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: the bucket compared to what the US has done, not
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: since nineteen forty eight, but certainly since the nineteen sixties
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: and nineteen really the nineteen seventies with regard to support
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: for Israel. And that's the thing we should.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Be outraged about.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: We should be outraged at Biden's response. We should be
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: outraged about many members of the US Congress's response. We
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: should be outraged by lots of people. Again, you should
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: have been outraged when those innocent Israeli children were killed.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Their lives are worth something. They're worth the same as
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: palasating because their lives are worth something. All of our
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: lives are worth something, right, But the outrage can't just
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: be for Israeli kids. They got to be for kids
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: in Palestine. They got to be for kids in Armenia,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: they gotta be for kids in ch I mean everywhere,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: But in this issue, it got to be for everybody
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: on the table. Do you think it's because people are
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: seeing it right now, but they're saying, Palastinian kids, do
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: you know what it is? It's the language that we use.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: They use a language of Even when Jonathan was talking respectfully,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: there's a way that we start to talk about this
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: is barbaric.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: When you start using words like barbaric, when you start
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: to frame people as subhuman or inhuman, that is a
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: deep problem. Now, Jonathan gold Black, Green Black, excuse me.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Green Black rightly pointed out that there's a long history.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: He alluded to the long history of Jewish people being
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: constructed as subhuman and as animals. Right, it's a disgusting
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: anti Semitic trope that helped animate the forces of the Holocaust.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: We don't want to ever go back there, but we
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: also don't want to transfer that to Palestinian people or
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: to Arabs. And when you start calling them barbarians, when
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: you start hear needs extraordinary and to some of them
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: unsubstantiated point claims about.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: Babies being beheaded.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: What it does is it creates a kind of outrage
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: at Arabs and at Palestinians and at brown people more broadly.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: That then makes barbaric responses seem justified. But I want
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: to be clear. It's not just that I disagree with
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: disproportionate force. It is illegal to engage in disproportionate force.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: There is a law of proportionality in international law, that
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: is to say that I can only use force to
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: the extent that it's that it engaged, that it that
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: it fulfills my military uh mission. In other words, if
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: if we're at war and you shoot at me, and
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I should, I can't shoot that the whole block up.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I can't. That's just common hoods sense, like you can't
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: just shoot up the whole blo because you gotta be
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: for one person. You can't, right, and international law protects
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: that logic and asserts that logic. And so what Israel
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: has done is engaged in a disproportionate force. You kill us,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: We're gonna kill all of y'all. We're gonna wipe them
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: off the map that they say, We're gonna knock them
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: three generations. We're gonna turn guys into tens. These are
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: all quotes that we're hearing. And the problem is if
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you think that they're animals anyway, then it's a lot
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: easier to do. It's just like when you hear that
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: prisoners are starving. No one said people are going to prisoners.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: They don't deserve you know, they're unsafe. Oh well, you know,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah, because we've decided that they don't deserve
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the same thing as everybody else. Right, we can't think
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: like that. Palisandi lives are worth just as much as
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Israeli lives. And until we recognize that and own that
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: in policy, then we're going to continue to see the
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: kind of force that we're using. And that's why I
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: don't like this narrative of those animals, those barbarians, those
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: uncivilized people. No, there's civilized people who can be engaged
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: through diplomacy, through through politics, through legal solutions, just like
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: everybody else. What's the difference between Hamas and just citizens
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: of Palestine. Well, Hamas is a political party, you know,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and they also have a kind of armed wing that
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: is a little more extreme. But the Palacinian people haven't
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: had a chance to vote for Hamas. I don't know
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: what they want. They won the election, I believe for
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: forty four the vote in two thousand and six, forty
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: nine percent of the dozen population is under eighteen. So
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: imagine if seventeen imagine if Donald Trump won the election
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, God forbid, and then he decided,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: which is not completely unplausible, that he's not leaving office.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Oh he's going to do that, right, exactly, exactly right.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I agree. So there's seventeen at least of him winning
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: part then seventeen years later he's still in office. You
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: can't blame the people who never got a chance to
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: vote for him. You can't blame anybody for him being
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: office seventeen years later if it's a four year term.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: And so part of it is the everyday people, the guys.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I don't speak for them. I don't want to say
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: whether they support himass or not. Right, What I know
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: is they want to be free and they know that
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: the other party of FETA has basically caved. They know
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: that Paliseni authority doesn't represent their interest. They don't have
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: a mandate either, and so it's very difficult to know
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: what Palisi people want.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Let them have free and fair elections and then we
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: can find out what they want.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: But in terms of the Palestinian people in general, they
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: don't just live in Gaza, they live in the West Bank,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: they live in cities like Ramaala and Bethlehem. They live
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: in these cities and they are under military occupation. What
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: they did, and Jonathan talked about wanting a two state solution,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: and again there are lots of people who want the
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: two state solutions. I don't oppose a two state solution philosophically,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: but what they've effectively done since those Oslo Accords of
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three is turned Gaza into a cage and
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the West Bank into two hundred and twenty eight separate ghettos.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: So the Palestinian people don't have unity. They don't they're
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: ruled by different parties. Area A, they're ruled by Palestinians,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Area B, there is coordinated with Israel. Area C is
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: all Israeli control. So even the part where they're supposed
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: to be free, they're not. And Oslo was supposed to
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: be an opportunity to work toward a two state solution.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: But over the time as they're negotiating, the area is
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: getting smaller, Palestinian freedom is getting smaller.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Settlements are growing. I think I used the example before.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: It's like if you and I are arguing over how
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: to divide the pizza and as we argued, whore going
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: to which way to split it? You keep eating slices,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: right at some point there's nothing left to divide, and
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: we say, well, now now there's two slices level, let's
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: split it. Mark Well, I'd be like fuck you right,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: like it's too laugh. And that's basically what is happening
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: right now in Palestine. And so Palestinian people are saying, look,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: we've been waiting. We we negotiated with Oslo and it
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: was it was a farce with no Ada calls it
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: a sovereignty trap.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: We tried to march in protest.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: They had the Great March of Return in Guys up
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: to the undefined border of Israel, and from five hundred
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: meters away, Israeli snipers were shooting down people, picking them
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: off like birds. They marched. They said, tell your story
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: through medium. My colleague get Algaeta shooting a buokla. They
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: killed her with the press jacket on with no justice.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: They not First they said Palastinian killed it. Then they said, okay,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: we did it. Then they said as an accident, is
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: there any justice? No, So just like black folk, here
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: your march, they say it's wrong. Your protests, you say
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: is wrong. Your boycott the BDS movement they've tried to criminalize, right,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: which is a boycott, dives, investment, and sanctioned movement called
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: by a civil society Palestinian people saying, look, we got
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: to do something different. So every possible strategy has been
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: met with resistance, has been met with criminalization, has been
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: met with violence. And so when I see these awful
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: events that again are inexcusable, they don't come from nowhere.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: They don't come from from day one being October seventh,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: They come from day one, not even being nineteen forty eight,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: really day one being there late in nineteenth century, late
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: twentieth centuries, late nineteenth century, Excuse me, when we started
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to see Palestinian land being settler colonized.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Now, what is your thoughts on? You know, Jonathan was
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: also upset with some chapters of Black Lives Matter supporting
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter Chicago and Chicago. It was a couple
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: of chapters actually that was supporting Palestine and Hamas. What's
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: your thought on that? The reason we asking all these
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: questions because you know, I'm not verse. I don't know
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: if Charlamagne is versed, but I'm not verse think.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I The one I saw in Chicago was the one
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: with the paraga, a paraglider, and I thought that was
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: impoor taste.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Again, I don't because there.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Was a paragliders that came in and shot up the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: right right.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: And I don't sell.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I don't want to celebrate or romanticize the killing of civilians,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: and so I didn't like that. Standing in solidarity with
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: the Palestinian people as they resist is nothing wrong with that.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: And as a nascent sovereign, as a young emerging sovereign state,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: a mass has the right to resist military occupation. And
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: let's be very clear, Palestinians have the legal right, not
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: just the natural right, but the legal right to resist.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: They can use violence to resist. They're under military occupation.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: It is not illegal to resist, but you have limits
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: on how you can resist. Again, if you punch me
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: in the face, I have a right, even by this law,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: to punch you back and to defend myself. I don't
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: have a right to pull out a knife for Bazuoka
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: in Blae your way with the gun whither you have
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: though you're in Florida, you can do facts. That's very true.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: That that's very true right, But even in there it's limits.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Like I think, if Florida, you can't be black and
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: do it right. Book Palastadians is right, International law says
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: you can. I wrote a book called Except for Palestine,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: And part of the point is all these rules work
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: except for Palestine. Every other sovereign state has a right
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: to defend itself. And when you're under a legal military
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: or when you're in a military occupation, when you're a
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: legal occupation, when you're it's a daily form of violence
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: that legally you can defend yourself with.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: What you can't do is kill civilians.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: And so when I see people, if I see somebody
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: where it's BLM or anybody else romanticizing the killing of civilians,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I say no, I say that's wrong. I say that
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: doesn't help our cause. But I don't want to pretend
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: that the only strategy that black folk have, or the
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: only strategy that Palestinians have, or the only strategy that
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: any people have is nonviolence. This idea that Palastinians is
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: supposed to just sit there as they get beaten and
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: shot and killed is ridiculous.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: Why do you think you don't hear that much of
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: that story?
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Of which part of the of the because I mean.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: You hear more about hamas you hear more about what
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: you know Israel, but you never hear that part of
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: the story.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Because it again, they do the same thing here with us,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: right like there's stories when violence happens. No disrepect to
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: the New Black Panther Party, But there's about twelve people
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: in the New Black Panther Party. If you would have
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: watched watch Fox News, you would think that all the people,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: all the people in Fergus in march, and all the
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: people in Minnesota marchan that it was these twelve people
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: that said the craziest, wildest stuff were the representaters of
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: all black people. They always take a one slice of
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: a people and tell that and make that the whole story.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: That they pick it the they pull up the threads
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that are easiest to pull at. So that becomes part
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: of the reason. The other part of the reason is
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: we've never represented the Middle East or Africa in ways
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that show their humanity. We've always shown them as as uncivilized,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: as violent, as as unprepared for democracy, and that's how
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: you end up here in the first place.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: But we need to tell those stories. That's our job.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: That's our job to tell the story of the occupation,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: tell the story of suffering, to tell the story of misery.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Because if we don't do that, then we're complicit.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: That's why when those eighteen human rights organizations stood up
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: and said, Israel is in apartheid state, that there are
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: different rights given to some folks versus other folks based
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: on who they are. That is the definition of apartheid.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to look just like South Africa. It
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: has to be based on a system of racialized hierarchy
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: or other forms of hierarchy. And it is so when
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: those nations came out and said that, people started paying attention.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: It's in many ways frustrating for me because I feel
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: like we were just starting to turn a corner when
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: people were noticing the injustices in Palestine. People were starting
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: to speak out against what was happening. People were starting
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: to say, wait a minute, Israel also has to do something.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Political candidates were running it, like Bernie Sanders are saying, look,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: we can't give unconditional eight to anybody, but even Israel.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Israel has to not have human rights violations for us
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: to keep giving them our money. This is where the
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: conversation was turning, and this moment creates an, unfortunately for me,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to say, look, we don't have to hold
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Israel accountable for anything. We can only focus on Palestinians.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: And I think everybody, everybody needs to be held accountable.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I guess I keep getting slightly confused because we talk
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: about Hamas and Palestinian citizens, and I wonder if that
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: if that's fair. And the reason I say that because
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: it feels like Hamas is willing to sacrifice the Palestinian
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: people because they have to know you're not gonna win
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: a war with Israel. They had to know when they
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: committed that act of terror what the response was going
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: to be, and they had to know that so many
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: innocent Palestinians were going to be killed because of it.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: You know, it's an interesting question.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I asked that very question to Osama him Dan, who's
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: one of the who's senior spoken for for Hamas. I asked.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I had him on my Algazeri show last week as
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: well as an Israeli official, and I asked him that
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: very question. I said, if you know your response is
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: going to be this, why would you do that? Yeah,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: there's an interesting set of questions responses that he didn't
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: he didn't say this, he avoided the question. But my
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: response would be one, I'm not sure they knew that
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: they'd be this successful.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I think they they thought the Israeli intelligence and Israeli
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: military would be better prepared.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: For this UH, for this uh for this.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Attack than they than they than they were, and I
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: think Israel is and I think Jonathan's basically said that,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: like everybody was a little surprised by this. They may
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: have underestimated Hamas's capability, and Hamas may have overestimated Israel's capability,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: at least in that moment. So I think part of
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: it was they weren't planning, They weren't prepared for this to
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: be They didn't think they'd get this many hostages. They
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: didn't think they'd be able to breathe it, you know,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: to kind of get past the barrier and kill that
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: many people. So I think some of this might have
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: been this is me speculating now. I think some of
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: this might have been oh shit, we end oh shit,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: like we hear, let's figure this out. The second thing is,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I think what they would say to you is we're
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: dying now slowly, and yes, this may cause an act
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: of extraordinary, disproportionate retaliation by Israel, but at least we
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: have an opportunity to change the conditions on the ground.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: At least the world is watching. At least we have
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to do something else. Do I think that's
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: the right decision? Though I don't. I think that's a
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: terrible political calculation. And I don't think that you can
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: sacrifice civilians any interest of this. I just don't think
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: you can do that. But I also understand that if
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: we do nothing at all, if we do nothing at
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: all under occupation, if we do nothing at all under slavery,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: if we do nothing at all under any gross community
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: system of injustice, our presses don't just free us. And
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Palactians were dying anyway, They're being ethnically cleansed anyway, They're
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: being taken off their land anyway, And so there's no
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: reason to believe that if Hamas had just sat on
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: their hands then things would have gotten better. So we
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: can have a critique of Hamas and say, hey, that
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: was wrong, but we also have to recognize that it's
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: not like things were getting fixed and Hamas went and
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: messed them up. They were dying anyway. Palatines are dying
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: every single day. Those hospitals already don't have enough power.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: People die.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Those hospitals are death camps anyway.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: And right now, and just think about this again, Israel
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: is turning off all the electricity, all the fuel the hospital.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: The international representative from the Red Cross, the International Red Cross,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: said that this hospital will be a graveyard if Israel
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: doesn't give them energy. And when I spoke to Israel
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: officials about this directly, they said, well, talk to Hamas
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: about that. Can you explain Hamasa's relationship to the Palestinian government.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Is Hamas the Palestinian government. Hamas is the Palestinian government
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: effectively in Gaza. So basically, so they're in a leadership
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: in Gaza, in Gaza God, but so there's a Palasinian
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Authority Palsin national Authority. In nineteen ninety three, they effect
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: the Palsonian National Authority became the ruling government or the
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: ruling authority and representative of the Palestinian people. This is
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: part of the Oslo Accords, which was an attempt to
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: create a two state solution. And so they said, okay,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: the PLO is working the Palsenian Liberation Organization, who they
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: used to call terrorists. Right, they said, you know what,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: we'll rec ugnized them as the AS, the U as
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: the AS the representative of the Palatine people. And then
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: we're going to have elections and parties can run. FATTA
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: is one of the parties, right, and they're the party
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: that rules in the West Bank. That's that's everything, that's
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: the west bank of the Jordan River, that's all the
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: land that was occupied in the after the nineteen sixty
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: seven war, that's that's them. And then Gaza had elections
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: and Fata Haran then there too. They did not win.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: They lost by a fairly slim margin. The elections were
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: contested and at some point but Hamas won and so
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: then what you saw is what you wanted to see,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: was a unity government that didn't happen. Part of why
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: the unity government didn't happen was the US and Israel
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: undermined it. But at the end of the day, you know,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: have uh Hamas running this part of the of of
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Palestine and you have another party running FATA, running the
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: other part of Palestine, and that is.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Why you have some challenges.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: But what's interesting is when we're fighting over Jerusalem as
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: a global community Muslims, Christians, when we're fighting for Jews,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: we're talking about Jus, We're talk about stats judism that
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to do with Hamath, that has due
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: with with Mahamurabads, that has due with this party in
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: the West Bank, when we're talking about in a part
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: type wall being built throughout the West Bank, when we're
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: talking about the treatment of people and mother, when we're
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: talking about a program committed in the West Bank, in
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: the Palestinian village by Israeli military general standards, all that I.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Ain't got nothing to do in Hamas.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Hamas is like they become almost like a boogeyman that
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: we can talk about when we should be talking about
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: all these other issues. There are legitimate Palestinian representatives who
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: they also have refused to meet with. There are legitimate
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: negotiations that could happen that they've also refused to have.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: So Hamas in some ways is saying, look, the rest
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: of our leadership is sold out. We're going to hold
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: the line here. Again, it doesn't mean I grew with
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: their tactics, but again it didn't start from nowhere part
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: of what Jamas has some of the admiration of the people,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: it's because they're the only people who haven't capitulated and
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: so and they can't vote for anybody else.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: So this is this is the challenge of it.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: So the Palestinian leadership is even divided based on where
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: they are. And the reason why that happens is because
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: again Israel and the Alslo courts divided the Palisenian territories
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: up in a way that Palisanians don't have one cohesive,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: continuous piece of land with access to water, all the
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: things you would need for a country. They put them
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: broken up in these little ghetto so that they could
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: never have a full body representing them, both geographically or politically.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: So in Israel waging war, is it just contained to
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Gaza at one area? It is right now, although as
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: of the last report I saw seven people were killed
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: in the West Bank too, but by Israeli forces. But
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: but yeah, right now, it's only happening in Gaza. And
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: we've also seen things happen when you hear clashes in
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: ox of Moss, that's happening in the West Bank, that's
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: happening and occupied East Jerusalem, when you hear.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: About you know.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Br Goldstein, a settler from Brooklyn who came and engaged
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: in a massacre at the Iberheim Mosque in Khalil and
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Hebron and the nineties that was in the West Bank
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and the military clashes that came after that were there.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: So there's It really just depends on where you're talking
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: about at a given moment. But right now we're talking
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: about just the guys A strip, which is a very
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: specific strip of land uh with within the region. Most
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: people are up north right Gadsa City, and right now
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: they're being told go to the southern part of the country.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: That's another important thing because part of what people say
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: is Israel has the most restraint. They have the most
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: restraint driven military in the world. They give people warnings
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: before they bomb them. They tell people.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: So they do have what's called a roof knocking strategy,
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: where they say, well, you know, we'll knock on the
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: roof and in three minutes later with we'll drop a
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: non explosive on your roof and then you have like
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: three minutes to.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Leave before we blow it up.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: That's not a lot of time.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Second, they've they've gotten rid of that strategy they say, well,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: if to the point you made earlier, I say knocking,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: we ain't knocking, We're just blowing shit up now.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Also, well, let's say you know my question to that too,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: because if you knock on and as Hamas, Hamas knows
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: now you're gonna bomb me.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: So they know how to get the hellouse.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: That doesn't make much sense at all.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Evil.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: The argument was a lot because they say a.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Lot of people that that Hamas is what even what
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Jonathan green Blast said was they they are setting up
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: in churches, they're setting up in hospitals, they're sitting up
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: in schools, they're setting up in bacad.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: I haven't. I have yet to see intelligence reports that
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: say that. The problem is they say Hamasis everywhere. They
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: say Hamasis everywhere, and they have tunnels everywhere. So then
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: when you blow up a school, that school is filled
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: with children, and they say, well, yeah, but Hamas was
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: in there. The narrative is constructed as if Palestinian people
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: stand in front of their babies with guns and so
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: and force you to kill both of them. Right, that's
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the narrative, right, history intelligent reports don't necessarily suggest that that.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Oftentimes what is seen as a military target often is
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: just a civilian target. I mean when the classic example
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: historically is the bombing of the King David Hotel, they say, oh,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: it was a British military target.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: That is that is rarely terrorists blew up.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Right, turns out it wasn't and it's stories it wasn't
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: a military talk there were civilians in there, right, These
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: are the things that happened. Schools are getting bombed, hospitals
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: are getting bombed, homes are getting leveled. I spoke to
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: a woman whose entire family eleven people in the house
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: were killed when the apartment was leveled last week, and
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: none of them were military.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: None of them were members of Jimaz.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: But this idea of saying what we had to blow
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: it up because Hamas is basically saying Jimaz stands in
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: civilian areas and forces us to kill everybody. But there's
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: no evidence of that. But again, international law doesn't say
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: you can just do that. You can't just arbitrarily do that.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: And you can't move one point one million people to
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the south in twenty four hours and at the same
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: time that you shoot down the corridor to get them there,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: and you're shooting at transport vehicles, they transferred people from
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the north to the south. If all that is happening,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: you can't in good faith say that we gave everybody
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: a warning, as if all the civilians were going to
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: leave to the south and Homasa is gonna be standing
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: up in the Northay, hey here we are come get
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: us right, Like that's not realistic, honest, and we have
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: to be honest about that.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: And honestly, Antonio is the head of the UN.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Other nations are beginning to say that they're saying, Look,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: this is disproportionate for us, this is too much. You
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: can't blow up all the hospitals. You have to give
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: people food, you have to give people electricity. And the
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: fact that we're sitting here right now having a fight
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: over whether or not Palestinians can get food, clothing, shelter, electricity,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: fuel is absurd. Thousands of Palastinians have been killed and
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: we're pretending like it's just okay, and it's not. Yeah,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I wonder about that too, Like why do people have
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: to be pro Israel or pro Palestine? Like, I'm pro
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I don't want to see kids get killed. I'm pro
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I don't want to see anything. I'm anti war, Like,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: why do people have to pick this side? Like I
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: don't understand. I'll tell you why. At this moment, we
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: can all say we don't want violence. I agree, you
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: don't have to know about the issue. And look, I
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: just don't want to see anybody die. That's why I'm
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: at this moment. I want to see another Israeli child dead.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I don't want see another Palestinian child dead. I don't
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: want to see anybody die, not just children, adult. I
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: don't want nobody to die. But the problem is if
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: you say that you are pro Israel as it is
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: currently constituted, then you are saying that you are in
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: support of a government that is systematically colonizing people, that
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: is systematically displacing people, that is systematically stealing people's land,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: that is systematically ethnically cleansing people, as we see in
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Gaza right now. Those people leave gods and can't come back.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: They've been ethnically cleansed. Right When you say you pro Palestine,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: then they'll say you pro Hamas. Here's the difference. If
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I say I'm pro Hamas, I'm saying I'm pro Hamas, right,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: I can be pro Palestinian and support Pilistlian self determination
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: and still disagree with Hamas. The problem is Israel as
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: it is constructed. Israel as it is defined. Israel, by
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: its own definition, is not a state of all of
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: its citizens, by virtue of being a Jewish state, and
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: by virtue of giving people different rights based on whether
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: or not they are Jewish, by virtue of the fact
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: that Palestinians have different rights and privileges, even those who
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: are citizens of Israel. Arab sisms of Israel have different
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: rights rules, and they'll say that's a lie. There are
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Palastinians and are kinnessed. They're Palestinian members in a supreme court.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Palastinians at the exact same rights. There are about sixty
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: laws on the books that show a difference, either facially
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: or in practice in terms of how people get treated
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: based on whether or not they are an Arab or not.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Even for Arab sisterms of Israel. Right now, people in
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the West Bank don't have rights and freedoms. So the
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: way Israel is constructed, it is by definition operating against
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: the interests of Palestinian people. That's the difference. It would
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: be like saying I'm not anti Indian, I'm just pro
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: United States. That'd be a hell of a thing to
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: tell a Native American right, because the United States, by definition,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: by its construction, is created in a way that stomps
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: on the rights Ofative Americans here. So I can't say
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: to something. I can't look at Native American in the
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: eye and say, well, I'm not I don't pick a side.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: I'm neutral on this right. I like Native Americans and
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: I and I and I love what America created, like
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: nah bruh, Like you gotta pick one on that right.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: And so it doesn't mean, though that I have to
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: hate Israeli's or that I have to hate Jewish people.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I don't hate either. I want everyone to live in peace, safety, dignity,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: self determination, and justice, and that's important to be said.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: I guess that's why I don't like conflating to Hamas
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: in Palestinians, because Hamas charter literally does say they want
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: to destroy Israel and kill Jewish people.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: That was that was that that was their that was
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: their charter.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: And I think that we can have an opposition to
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Hamas's charter. I think we can have an opposition to
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Jumas all the way and still support the Palestinian people. Again,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Haimas is a government and an organization. They're not the
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Palestinian people, right. I think that's what a confusion is.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: And I think we can have a disagreement with the
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Israeli government, right and I could say, hey, they're they're
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: they're Israelis. There's Ionists. There are Jewish people here who say, look,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I don't agree with the Israeli government, but I disagree
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: with the government, but I support the government's right to exist.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I hear you. What I'm saying is is that the
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Jewish state as is constructed right now, as is constructed
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: right now, and as it was designed since nineteen forty eight,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: was constructed in a way that depended upon the ethnic
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: cleansing of Palestinian people, the settler colonizing of Palestinian people,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: and the continued a dispossession of Palestinian people.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: And so that's the difference. This isn't about what I
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: agree with the government.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: And now everybody has governments issue shouldn't be held to
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: a higher standard or a lower standard. Issua should be
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: held to the same standards all governments. You can critique them,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: you can agree with them, you can support them, you
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: can resist them, you can do all that stuff. I'm
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: not against that, but I'm saying right now, Palestinian people
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: have been dispossessed, they have been made stateless, they have
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: been made refugees in their own home, and they've been
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: made refugees around the world, and it's only getting worse.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: And so what we have to do right now is
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: not just ask how can we stop this violence, which
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: we should. I hope the violence stops tomorrow, but if
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: we go back to the way we were two weeks ago,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: that also is an act of gross of irresponsibility and
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: really violence on our part. Because Palestinians are getting treated
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: like animals every single day.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: Somebody might say, well, well, why are you so passionate
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: about this? What you know? Because you you've been passionate
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: about this for a long time.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: So if somebody asked, well, why is Mark Lamont Hill
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: is so passionate, what would you tell.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Them A couple of reasons. As an American citizen, my
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: tax dollars go to it. I don't make as much
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: money as y'all, but I pay a significant amount of taxes,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: so I feel like even more, I'm even more culpable
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: my money goes to funding this occupation, I'm responsible for
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: it as an American citizen, as a black person.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: I believe in justice everywhere.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: The week before I was grilling the Israeli minister in
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: the Hamas Minster, I was grilling the Minister of a
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Zetba Jean because I'm worried about what's happening to people there. Right,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: So it's not just as real. It'sue shouldn't be shouldn't
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: be isolated. We should be focused on it. In justice everywhere.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: But the reason in particular why this issue comes to
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: me is one as somebody who study in the Middle East,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: it's a fascinating issue to me. But also, we don't
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: give everybody four billion dollars a year, you know what
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I mean. I might be pissed off of what's going
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: on in Uzbekahstan, but we don't put that much money.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: And it was Becky Wallace, right, So I don't even
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: think that's how you said. So that's part of it
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: as well. Also, there's a long history of solidarity of
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Palestinian people with black folks. Some people that they don't
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: care about us, that's not true. Now there's some stuff
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: we got to work out but Malcolm X cared about
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: this issue. Malcolm X is my hero. So when Malcolm
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: X cared about this issue, when he wrote an issue
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: a piece on this in the Egyptian Gazette called Zionist Logic,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I cared. In a fall of sixty four, I cared
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: because Malcolm cared.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Malcolm.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: And when everybody here go back and listen to message
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: to the grassroots, Malcolm is talking about what a revolution
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: looks like, and he was talking about us being connected globally, right,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: That's why I care about this issue. The Black Panthers
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: cared about this issue. Snick cared about this issue in
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: the summer sixty seven. There's a lot of people black
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: freedom fighters who we admire. People say, be like Malcolm,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: be like a side of people want to march him
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: and be like Huey. People want to be like Angela.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: They all cared about Palestine. So I'm following that tradition,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: but I'm not doing it blindly. They understood that our freedom,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: our liberation as a people, had to require it demanded
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: us to be connected to people in other places who
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: are pressed. I can't get free if Palestine ain't free.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I can't get free if South Africa ain't free, and unfortunately,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: that fight toward freedom will always alienate you.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: It'll always make you look marginal, It'll always make you
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: look like.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: The bad guy. Nelson Mandela spent thirty years in prison.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: He was in prison from nineteen sixty four until nineteen ninety.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: He became the president of South Africa, and he still
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: was on the United States terror watch list until twenty eighteen.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Until two thousand, we had a black president here and
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: he was still on the terror list. He had been
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: the president of a state, he'd been hailed around the world,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: he'd been at the Olympics, everybody loved him, everybody pretended
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: that they didn't criminalize it, and he was still on
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: our country is terror list. So we got to be
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: real careful about who we call a terrorist. We got
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: to be real mindful of how we use that language
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: of terror, because one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: And that's not going to be taken out of context
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: that I'm saying that I support what Hamas did. Again,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: I oppose what Hamas did. I oppose the killing of civilians.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: But what we're not going to do is pretend that
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: oppressed people getting liberated by resisting violence in self defense
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: is an act of terrorism.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: As such, we can't do that either.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Can you explain your relationship between America and Israel? Because
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: you said, you know, America gives them four billion dollars
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: a year. Why are they such strong outa It's a
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: great question, you know, and it's a question that lots
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: of people ask. You know, it's a relatively so Initially
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: the strongest support of Israel was.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: We're the British right. But then.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: By this nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties, and I talked about
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: this in my book except for Palestine a lot, and
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: there's other people who write is much better than me.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Rassi Kality is a book called The One Hundred Years War.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Nord Attakat has a book called Injustice for Justice for some,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: excuse me, justice for some, And there's many others Elin
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Pepe and others. I'd say, read the Palestinians before you
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: read me, and these Raelies before you read me. But
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: there's a way that the United States, I'll get to
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: the heart of it. The US doesn't have feelings, it
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: has interests. We watch violent atrocities happen in certain places.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: We don't say anything.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: We watch a small atrocity, and all atrocities are awful,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: happen in other places. I'm not talking about this though
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: right now, and we're outraged, our outrage meter.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Doesn't link to.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: It isn't doesn't directly correspond to what people did. It
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: corresponds to what we need. Right there's certain places where
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: we all we gotta go to and liberate the women, right,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: but that right now, we're best friends with Saudi Arabia,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: which has a gross human rights record, particularly against when
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: you talk about beheadings. Look at Saudi Arabia, right They
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: killed a journalist, Jamal Khoji five years ago.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: We're in the anniversary of that. So we don't have
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: we're selective.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Israel operates as the United States' strategic outposts, so there's
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: a friendly relationship between US and Israel, but it also
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: serves the US's military interests because the US wants a
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: stake in the Midlis, just like everybody want to stake
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: in the Middle East. And now you have the opportunity
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: to have a nation that's not brown. Let me be clear, Israel,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: it still has a majority of miserdahij Jusey. I'm not
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: suggesting the Israel's not a brown country, and the Israel
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: doesn't have brown Jews the majority of Missadahim at this point.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: But my point is that Israel at its founding isn't
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: an Arab country, and so being able to have to
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: be an Arab territory and to have an Arab a
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: non Arab country, there's your strategic outpost makes a lot
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: of military sense.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: It it makes a lot of economic sense for the.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: United States, and of course for Israel, the United States
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: serves a great purpose the military backing.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: It gives them money.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Now, you know, there's a long history of the United
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: States and the UK not wanting Jewish people here. So
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: part of it was also animated by anti Semitism is
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: that it was almost as if they said, look, we'll
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: allow Israel to exist because we don't want Jewish people here.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: So the same so if you look at US immigration
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: law through the twentieth century, they didn't want Jews here,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: they didn't want Irish people here, they didn't want Russians here.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: The lots of we were already here anal choice, but
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: like they didn't want any of us here. And so
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: part of why it was easy for the UK to
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: get for the British to give Israel to to to
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: the Zionist movement was because they didn't want Jews in
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Britain because of anti Semitism, and Americans didn't want them either,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: So part of the at the beginning was like, we
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: don't want them here anyway. Now they've they've served strategic interests. Again,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: that's anti Semitic, it's deeply problematic, but that's part of
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: the origin story of why we got into these political
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: relationships that we got into. It's a two state solution.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: The solution I don't believe so, but I think it's
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: up to Palestinians and Israelis to decide that. I want
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: them to come up with a final analysis and a
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: final plan that works for them. And I think the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: best plan that we could have is a one state solution.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: One country. Everybody gets one vote. It's secular. It's not
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: a religious state. It's not a Jewish state, so it's
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: not in Islamic state. It's just a secular democracy where
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: everybody gets a vote. To me, that's fair, that's easy. Again,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: two state doesn't work because settlements. Two state doesn't work
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: because Palestinians won't get their rights protected. So for me,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: it's a secular, democratic, one state solution. But you know what,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: it ain't up to me as an American taxpayer. All
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: I want to do is not funded anymore. And I
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: want the final plan to come from Israelis and Palestinians
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: who can work together to figure out a plan. But
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: that plan has to be one that has one thing
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: that's not negotiable. The one not negotiable that it has
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: to be is that it has to produce dignity, safety, justice, security,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: and self determination for every body. I don't want anybody
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: to leave. I don't think anybody needs to leave. I
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: think everybody needs to stay and get those rights, the justice,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: and that self determination. That's my that's my analysis. All right, Well,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I hope we get there no more war.
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: We appreciate you coming in and breaking it down.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate everything about this show. I appreciate what
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: y'all doing.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: The only thing I say real quick is Charlottmagne is
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: trolling with that hat.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not. It's just repping my squad's all. Yeah, And
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: this is what I mean, Like you got to pick
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: a side, man, Like you know you're not from Dallas,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: like you literally signed with the enemy. But no, when
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: I grew up in South Carolina, we didn't have a team.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: So like my dad and my granddad, they were all
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Cowboys fans. They're America's team.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: Do you see do you hear the propaganda?
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Well, at least earlier in the year, he was buying
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Super Bowl tickets and he was getting his hotels.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: But that's wh who do you want to see there?
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: You would the halftime show? How Boys going to the
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Super Bowl? I did well? Probably up and up the
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: stairs more question after question question. That's why you want
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: me to ask nobody?
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: But I asked them.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I don't care he neither. I am interested in what
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: go ahead. Jesus Christ. I didn't want that reaction, all right,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Well he was bad, all right. Look I know what
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: he said. I watch the sho every day. It was
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: about I know what he said.
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: I know what he said.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: It's the one time agree I actually hated to agree
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: with him. You agree that they should say something? Yeah,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: hell yeah, they should say something. Really, if you are,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: it's yes, more Cali than Drake? Really, yeah, more Cali
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: than Drake. Why because they never talk about social issues ever?
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: I know, and I have an issue with that I
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: have an issue with anybody.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think every famous person has to say something
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: about everything, but if your people are being exterminated, if
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: your people are being executed, if your people are being
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: whatever its circumstances, I think you got to say something.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: He's like the most damn near the most famous Palestinian
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: in the world. If I were the most famous black person,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: if any of us were the most famous black person
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: in the world, the most famous Black person in the world,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: and black people were being killed in our country and
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: nobody said anything, I would be deeply disturbed. I don't
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: know what and the reason I'm not letting Drake off
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: the hook, you know what I mean. There's plenty of
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: reasons to have issues with driva Issus Drake the last month,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: but none of them about none of them political. It's
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: all about the you know, his framing of gender and
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: on his album and his treatment of everybody from Holly
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Buried you know, we going down list. That's another conversation.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: But for me, I don't know how Drake identifies in
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: terms of his politics. I don't know how he identifies
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: as a Jewish person. I don't know how he identifies.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: I know identifies racial as a black person, and so
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know how connected he is ethnically, culturally, or
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: politically to that issue.
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: If he is, and he should speak up too, I
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: just don't know.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Drinks said he had a ball mince field when he
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: was of age, and you know, yes, he talk about a.
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: Lot of it.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: But but the problem is that argument presumes it because
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: I'm Jewish that have to be pro Israel, and there
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: are numerous Jewish people around the world are who are
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Jewish and not pro Israel.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: I don't think Drake has a responsibility pro to be
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: pro Israel.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: I think I'd love for him to say something about
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: it whatever wherever he stands on this issue.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: But Kyla, yeah, man, and yeah, it was none.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Of those things either. Though Kyla is not connected culturally.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: I've seen him wear the coffee, I've seen him do stuff, yea,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: I've seen him be outside Palestinian. He don't lead with
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: it because it's not great for business to walk around
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: saying you're Palestinian.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: Someone argued that's that's a problem. I'm not here to
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: judge that.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: All I'm going to say is I would have liked
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: to hear him say something and The fact that the
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: leading hip hop cop journalist Vlad and I on the
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: same page on this issue should suggest to you how
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: morally egregious it is that even that he and I
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: are on the same page on this thing. When they do, though,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: what then what like? If they do then what like?
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: What is that? I mean? I think that's always the question, right,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, like what happens when the NBA speaks out
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: against such and such? Right? I do think that there's
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: power in that. Part of it is awareness. There are
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: people who will never watch this video. There are people
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: and everybody watching the Breakfast Club, but just people who
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: won't watch the Breakfast Club but will.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: Listen to DJ Kaled's Instagram story.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: That's why it matters. The same reason why when the
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: NBA players wore hands up, don't shoot or Black Lives Matter,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: it mattered because they reached the sector of the world
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't otherwise know that story. When Lebron and d
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Wade and Chris Paul said stuff, that shit mattered because
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: people cared, you know what I mean? When Beyonce was
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: talking about you know, you know, and again I didn't
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: need her to give a press conference, but Beyonce did
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: was extraordinary given her platform, and so and the difference is,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Black people that can speak.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who are Jewish who
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: can speak. There's lots of people who are Indian who
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: can speak. But how many people in the United States
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: right now who are Palestinian have the platform in the calendars?
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Maybe Gigi Hadi maybe who spoke out right, there's one
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: or two people, but in general, there's not really a
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: space for that. So it's not just Calim for me,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: any any any of them who are Palestinian, any of
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: them who are who have platform should speak up. And
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: and I'm not putting that just on Pealastins. I'm saying
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: that for black folks too. But I'm saying the stakes
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: are even higher because it ain't but a Palestinians in Hollywood,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a million black folk.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: So I just feel like that you gotta do it.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: I guess if they want to, my thing would be
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: past the microphone to somebody who know what they're talking about.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: I be okay with that. I be okay with that.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: If cal said, look, I don't know about this issue,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: but I want to bring these people together and make
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: it happen, but he's he's moving as if it didn't happen,
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: and it's weird to at least on social media, we
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: don't know what he's doing behind the scenes. That's fair enough.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty connected to the Palestinian movement. I heard one
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: person yet say that he's doing something. I ain't heard one.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: That's not to say he's not.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: I ain't heard one yet. But again, I'm not Palestinian.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: It's not my job to tell him what to do
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: with his people or for his people. I'm just saying
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I share of lads disappointment that that I haven't heard
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: anything from Calent and social media is reality for a
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: lot of people. Call it gives us a narrative of
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: his life, what's going on, what's going on world? And
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: if you're selling a product while two thousand year people
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: have been killed, fifteen hundred people have been killed, that
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: feels that feels gross to me. It feels little gross
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: to me, Like even if you didn't want to speak up,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: if if an all black neighborhood got bombed today and you said,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I don't I Charlott Mayne, or if you don't feel
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: like talking about it, I bet you wouldn't go in
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: your story and be like yo, che check out my
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: check out the trailer for my new documentary today on
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: such and such, and check out my new book. You
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: just you would have the decency to do nothing. And
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: I'm saying part of what happens is when you move
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: is if nothing is happening while the world is blowing up,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's it communicates even more so that
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: this isn't worth caring about. We already have a media
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: that does that. We already have an intellectual infrastructure that
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: does that. We have a legal apparatus that does that.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: We don't need people who look like us doing it.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying. But that's again, Kyla might disagree,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: and I respect I would just respectfully disagree.
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: All right, Well, Mark Lamont Hell, yes, it's the breakfast clubs.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Sure you'll get them books too, man, except for Palestine.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The breakfast club