Latest / Pod Save America / Can Trump Be Stopped in Iowa?

Transcript

Can Trump Be Stopped in Iowa? · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Interim University of Pennsylvania President Jon Leavitt.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: That was a good one. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Congress's last week of the year could
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: be its biggest yet. The president of UPenn resigns after
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: disastrous testimony on campus anti-Semitism. A woman flees Texas after
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: the state's abortion ban puts her life in jeopardy. And later,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: United Auto Workers president Sean Fain sits down with Tommy
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: to discuss his union's historic wins and what comes next.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: But first, Donald Trump has somehow expanded his lead in
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: the Iowa caucuses, which are now just five weeks away.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Latest Des Moines Register poll has him at 51%, up
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: from 43% in October. Ron DeSantis is next at 19%,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: up slightly from 16% in October. Nikki Haley's support is
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: unchanged at 16%. Vivek Ramaswamy's at 5%. Chris Christie at 4%.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: And I learned from this poll that Asa Hutchinson is
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: still in the race and polling at 1%. That was
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: shocking to me, too. Asa, Ada Hutchinson.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Who's giving him money at this point?
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Who's picking him? Who's picking him? Maybe one respondent? Who knows?
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: So this is the largest recorded lead this close to
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: a competitive Republican caucus ever. Poll also shows 70 percent
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of Trump supporters say their minds are made up. You
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: guys see anything in this poll that the DeSantis or
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Haley campaigns might find even mildly hopeful?
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Can we just I tried. I can I can say no.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: But before we even get to that, the domination. So
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Trump leads every age group. He leads with Republicans and independents.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: He leads with people with a college degree and people without.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: He leads across every income bracket. He leads with evangelicals.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: He leads with rural people, suburban people, city people. He
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: leads every group. Even the group where he does the worst.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: College educated?
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: He's beating Haley and DeSantis in those groups.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: And non-Republicans, he's doing the worst. But he's still leading among, like, independents.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, among independents.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: She's doing better. She's closest on that. But even independents. Brutal.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Sounds like Republicans want Donald Trump.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: There is not a sliver of good news in this
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: poll for anyone not named Trump. He moved plus eight
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: from October. He's the highest percentage of people who say
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: he's their first choice, second choice, or actively considering him.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: So he's the biggest sort of universe of support.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you wanted to find one thing in this poll,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: you could say, okay, if you look at everyone that
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: would make DeSantis first choice or second choice, or would
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: consider him, he's doing better there than Haley. But then
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: you realize, actually, that's a place where he's gone down
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: since the last poll. At least he has lost people,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: even in that big, wide group, to Trump since October.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: 49% of caucus goers say they've made up their mind,
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: but 70% of Trump supporters say they've made up their mind.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: His electability numbers against Biden improved. I mean, it's just
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: a disaster.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think what it shows is the people
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: who dropped out, even though they didn't have much support,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: that support largely went to Donald Trump. Maybe a little
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: bit went to Ron DeSantis. I think Nikki Haley has
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: probably maxed out on the anti-Trump vote, at least in Iowa.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: New Hampshire, there's probably a bigger anti-Trump vote. Among Republicans,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: but it goes to show how she doesn't have a
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: ton of room to grow. And, you know, Dan's made
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: this point, but if not Trump, then DeSantis is still
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the only candidate who can at least have some support
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: from people who really, really like Trump. I think the
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: number that says it all is you mentioned the electability,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: the way they ask the question. 73% of Republican caucus
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: goers said they think Trump can win an election against
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Biden despite his legal challenges.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: 73%.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: So there goes the electability argument. And like, honestly, even
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: if the other candidates tried to prove those voters wrong,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not easy to do so when poll
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: after poll after poll now shows Donald Trump leading Joe Biden,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: both in the general election. That was a Wall Street
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Journal poll that just came out over the weekend. In states,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: there are CNN polls of Michigan where Trump's leading by
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: 10 on Joe Biden. Georgia, where he's leading by five. So,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: you know, we're not going to have another debate over
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: whether the polls are to be believed this far from
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the election. But if you're a Republican caucus goer and
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: you really like Trump and you had been concerned at
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: one point about electability, why would you be concerned about
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: electability at this point?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. One thing that jumped out at me, too, is
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I think, look, we talk a lot about and rightly
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: so just the kind of abysmal performance of people like DeSantis.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: but there is a structural problem that they're dealing with.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: So one thing that was interesting is there is a difference,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: even though sort of DeSantis and Haley, they're both kind
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: of stuck where they're stuck. You know, everyone, the Haley
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: boomlet seems to have not done too much booming, but
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: there's a difference in their polling. Among DeSantis supporters, people
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: think Trump can win. They say 59% think he can win.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: A minority thinks that is impossible. For Haley, it's the opposite.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So Haley has consolidated the anti-Trump vote and DeSantis is
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: doing well with people that still like Trump but are
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: open to an alternative. But what's interesting is how both
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: of those paths have not worked, right? Like there's not
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: enough of an anti-Trump vote to rally around Haley to
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: give her anything that she can do. And kind of
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: trying to get people who like Trump to switch is
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: basically impossible because if you like Trump, he's right there.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: All you really need to know about this is the
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: quote that NBC had in their write-up from one Republican
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: caucus goer who said, they can promise me a million dollars.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I tell them to keep it and I would still
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: vote for Trump.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that person.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: And Bergen was like, I tried it. Spin zone for
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Ron DeSantis and Haley. Here's one thing you could try.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Actually run against the person winning. Step one. Step two,
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: there maybe is an expectations management challenge now for Trump.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: So they lose by like 20 and then they're like, ooh.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: So I was talking to a political scientist in Iowa saying, look,
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Trump's basically an incumbent. Incumbents usually win the Iowa caucuses
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: by like 60, 70, right? They have a much higher
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: total than 50% of the vote. Maybe you could spin that. Maybe,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe if you gain on him in
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: this last month. I'm trying here. I'm flailing here. Much
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: like them.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you trying.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: See, Iowa, it's not about winning the Iowa caucuses. It's
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: about how you are perceived to have done by an
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: arbitrary jury of your non-peers called the press corps and
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: the pundit class.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: And then the voters in New Hampshire, right? So, like,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I do think at this point I'm looking beyond Iowa,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: as I'm sure Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis are. Like,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you make up this much ground
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: in five weeks. I have not seen that happen, certainly,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: in our lifetime from anyone this close to the caucus.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: But if DeSantis stays in and Haley stays in after
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Iowa and they go to New Hampshire, I do think
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: there's a bigger independent vote there. There's a bigger college
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: educated vote there. That we know for sure. And there's
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: most likely a bigger anti-Trump vote there. And so then
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: if all these voters wake up and say, oh, Trump's
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: running away with it, then who knows? Maybe you get
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: more in the mix in New Hampshire. But I'm doubtful.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Chris Christie skipping Iowa and almost tying Vivek Ramaswamy has
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: got to be tough for Team Vivek. Yeah.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there's a lot of tough things for Team
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Vivek these days. Not good. DeSantis seems to be sticking
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: with his strategy of half-heartedly criticizing Trump on Twitter. Latest
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: salvo came after Donald Trump told this bizarre and I'm
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: sure 100% true story at the New York Young Republican
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Club gala Saturday night. I saw the clips from this.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what? Trump's dressed up in a tux. He's
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: in New York for a gala. What the hell? That
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: is the sign of someone who is not worried about
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: about any competition in the Republican primary. Let's listen to
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: a clip.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: And a general who's a fantastic general actually said to me, sir,
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: I've been on the battlefield. Men have gone down on
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: my left and on my right. I stood on hills
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: where soldiers were killed. But I believe the bravest thing
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: I've ever seen was the night you went onto that
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: stage with Hillary Clinton after what happened. And then that
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: woman asked you the first question about it. And I said,
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: Locker room talk.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: It's locker room talk. What the hell?
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: What are you talking about?
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Locker room talk.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: I honestly have to hand it to Trump for not
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: cracking up while telling that story.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: The Sir story is an entire genre.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: He tells so many made-up generals coming to him and saying, sir,
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: weeping over things. It's awesome. It's an awesome category.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: They just walk up and be like, you're so awesome.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I just needed to tell you that.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they're hot pilots.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Strapping, big, strong, massive arms.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: The biggest guy you've ever seen weeping, crumbling in tears
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: because of how grateful he was to me.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: So in response to this weird story, DeSantis accuses Trump
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: of denigrating military service and then says in his Twitter post, Quote,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: debating isn't brave. It's the bare minimum any candidate should do.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Hiding from debates, on the other hand, is an example
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: of cowardice. Meanwhile, here's what Trump said about DeSantis on
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Saturday night.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: You know what I love?
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: I love when they say, we really want to run
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: against Donald Trump. That's the one we want. How did
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: they do in 2016, by the way?
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: We want Donald Trump.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: We don't want to.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Run against Ron DeSantimonious with his high heels.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: And his bobblehead bullshit, you know. He looks like a
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: bobblehead doll.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Is that Trump's Netflix special?
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know what I love?
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: He does some anti-woke stuff. He does cancel culture. That's his,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: put it right up next to Chappelle.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Why not?
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: It's just like Ron DeSantis gets up. He's like, I'm
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: going to really take this no character limit for a
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: spin here on Twitter. I'm going to write this long.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: statement that no one's going to care about. I'm going
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: to call Trump a coward. But instead of saying it
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: in front of a camera or in front of a
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: crowd or at a debate, I'm just going to tweet it.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Trump is like, I'm going to fuck these libtards five
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: ways till Sunday. They don't know who they're dealing with.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: And DeSantis is like, it's whom? It's to whom they're dealing.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: Meanwhile, the Trump campaign is attacking Ron DeSantis's wife and
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: accusing her of planning voter fraud.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Well, she gave an interview. Did you see what she said?
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. She screwed up. She fucked that up.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: She's like, Hey, everybody come to Iowa and vote. I
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: was like, I don't think that's right.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: So we should tell people volunteer.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: She said people should, you don't have to be, um,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: you don't have to be a resident of Iowa to participate.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: It was the problem there in the caucuses. So people
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: can descend from all these other States. And what she
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: said she meant is that people can come to the
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: state and volunteer and knock on doors, which of course
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: they can. But, uh, You think Donald Trump's going to
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: take it that way or anyone else?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Not the first time people have bused people in.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we know.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Playing from the Clinton playbook over there. Mark Penn, love it.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Listen, listen, look, look, the Iowa polls said what they said.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: Then all of a sudden. It's just so funny. Like, again,
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: Trump is literally attacking Ron DeSantis' wife in the most
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: personal terms possible. And the only sort of little lane
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: that DeSantis thinks he can carve out and safely criticize
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: Trump about is participation in the debate. It's so pathetic.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Well, and he wants to call, I mean, because it's
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the whole, you know, Trump is strong, so you got
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: to call him weak. It doesn't work to just be like,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I'm going to tweet quietly that he's weak. It doesn't
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: work if you're weak. And that'll do, that'll unlock the.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: It's just everybody's reading DeSantis exactly for who he is.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: And it just doesn't, it just doesn't work. And I
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: do think like going back to the poll, like the
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: fact that more Republican caucus goers in Iowa believe Trump
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: is electable today. a few months ago is such an
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: indictment of the way these campaigns have tried to fight
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: against Trump, because that's the whole ballgame for people.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I think it's the polls. It's the polls. It's like
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: he's beating Joe Biden. They also suck, the DeSantis.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: But they haven't been.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Willing to make any kind of argument around the felonies, right?
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: The fact that those felonies have not changed this calculus
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: at all, it's staggering. And so all these, oh, he's
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: too weak to debate me. Like, The how dare you, Mr. Trump?
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: It doesn't work with the country. It's sure as fuck
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: not going to work with Republicans who have become basically
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: full blown fucking animals. Like, how dare you, Mr.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Trump?
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: It's our troops that are brave. Like, when does that work?
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: It didn't work with fucking he did the gold star
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: thing at the at the convention in 2016. It's not
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: going to work with Republicans in Iowa.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And now DeSantis is starting to do like a polling analysis.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: You know, you told some reporters in Iowa that. that
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: if it's Trump, Trump's going to inspire higher Democratic turnout,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: and Trump's going to bring out all the Democrats if
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: he's the nominee, and DeSantis won't bring out as many
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Democrats to vote against him.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: Go apply at 538, man. What are you doing?
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I also just think, like, we've kind of been
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: through a version of this, right? Like, when we were first...
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I remember when we were first thinking about, like, oh,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: who's going to challenge DeSantis? It's like, oh, is Ron
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: DeSantis a bigger threat than Donald Trump in general? And
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: at this point, like, watching the way DeSantis kind of fucking.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: He's doing the worst against Joe Biden in these trial
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: heats above Haley and Trump. He's doing the worst.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: Because he's stuck in Georgia debating the wrong guy. He's
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: fighting with Gavin Newsom in Atlanta.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: He can try store clerks next.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Well, we did get one December surprise over the weekend
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: that could shake up the final weeks of the caucuses.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: A real, authentic, actual pee tape, but not from Donald Trump.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: During a Twitter Spaces live stream with Elon Musk, Accused
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: rapist Andrew Tate and the newly reinstated Alex Jones. Vivek
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Ramaswamy forgot to turn off his mic while taking a leak.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: You know, humans in America, humans in Africa, Asia, and
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: everywhere else.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Somebody's got their phone open in the bathroom.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's Vivek. That's your phone, Vivek. I'm not able
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: to mute you.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, Elon.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Sorry about that. Well, I hope you feel better. I
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: feel great.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: Sorry about that, guys.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you, I'd rather hear him pee than talk.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I think I'll take the pee.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: My boys come out for water sports. What a world.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Happy holidays, everybody.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Alex Jones is like, sword fight! I do like that
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: he just called it out. I accidentally tuned into this
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Twitter space yesterday. He tripped.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Slip on a keystroke there. It was Alex Jones, Andrew.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Twait, Vivek. It was like, Mike Flynn was on, truly
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: the worst people.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: A future secretary of state. It was the Trump cabinet
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: for the second term.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: The worst people in politics. I tuned in and they
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: were complaining about the possible creation of an unelected world
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: government in Davos in the World Economic Forum.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: It was exactly what you would expect. So I turned
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: it off. I meant to tell you when you just
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: brought up the Newsom-DeSantis debate, did you see or hear-
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: that at the gala on Saturday night with the Trump
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: was at the Republican gala, he did say that Newsom
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: won the debate.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: Oh, nice.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Which is what you predicted.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: I've been waiting for that. Yes, that's real. It's the
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: meanest thing you can say.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: All right, it's a big week in Congress. This is
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: their last scheduled week of 2023, and they're still nowhere
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: close to an agreement on a bill that's supposed to
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: include $ 60 billion for Ukraine, $ 14 billion for Israel, a
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: few hundred million dollars in humanitarian assistance for the Palestinians,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: and some combination of funding and policy to address the
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: migrant crisis at the southern border. Republicans are still saying
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: they will not vote for Ukraine aid without new border policy.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: And even though Democrats and Biden have said they're open
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: to some new limits on asylum, some of the latest
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Republican demands include ankle bracelets for children detained at the
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: border and banning people from even applying for asylum, closing
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: down the entire border. Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: making a special trip to D.C. to plead with Congress
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: for support, though Senator Lanksford, the lead Republican negotiator, just
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: told CNN that nothing Zelensky says will change Republican minds
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: and that they probably won't be able to get a
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: deal by the end of the week.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: So it does look like, I mean, I guess that
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean that Ukraine aid is dead for good, but
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: it does seem like it's not going to happen in
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: 2023 because they don't have time.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Murphy said something like, if I were cynical,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I would say they're using the border to make sure
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: we can't pass Ukraine aid. But I'm not cynical, which
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I think was a.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Sounds pretty cynical.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Sounded like a way of saying without saying that he's
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: pretty worried about the whole thing.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Don't you think that the Republicans could have said that
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: nothing Zelensky says would change their mind before Zelensky got
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: on a plane to Korea?
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: It's pretty fucking rude, actually.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: It's like he's in the middle of a war.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: It is a real war.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I know it's on television for you, but it's an
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: actual war.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: It's terrible.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: For him. I still don't see how this is going
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: to get done even in 2024 because, I mean, Murphy on,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Chris Murphy, who's the lead Democratic negotiator, was on Meet
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: the Press yesterday. And he basically like outlined what a
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: compromise on the border could look like. He said, we're
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: not going to support anything that shuts down the border
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: completely to people who legitimately are coming here to have
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: their lives rescued. But we are willing to talk about
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: tightening some of the rules so that you don't have 10,000
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: people arriving a day. But like, I don't know. I
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: don't know what the Republican incentives are to political incentives
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: are to go along with a compromise like that.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: I don't either. I mean, it seems like they've all
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: just gotten into a place politically where they feel like
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: being in support of Ukraine funding is bad politics for
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: them with the base because Trump has demagogued it because
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: it's become this right wing cause to oppose supporting Ukraine.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: And it just means that over time that the Ukrainian
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: military is going to slowly run out of weapons. I mean, literally,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: like they're going to their air defense system is pretty
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: good right now. But over the couple of months, they
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: will run out of interceptor missiles. The things will slowly
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: break down. They'll stop being able to defend from these
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: drone attacks. I mean, people will die. Because they're not
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: able to intercept these things. And so, I mean, it's
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: not going to be like a precipitous, you know, one
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: day they just won't be able to fight anymore. But
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: they're going to have to change their strategy. They'll probably
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: have to leave territory. You'll have Putin feeling like he's ascendant.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: And he'll be looking to our election and thinking, boy,
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: if I can press now and wait until Donald Trump's around,
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: then I'll have nobody in my way. I mean, this
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: is a very bad setup.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or Trump will pull out of NATO.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, there's certainly... threatening that or talking about it.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And look, the minority of Republicans, mostly in the Senate,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: who are for Ukraine aid, still know that Republican voters
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: are in favor of much, much tougher immigration and border policies.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: And so even though, even the ones who are for
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Ukraine aid, I don't know what the political incentive for
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: them is to compromise on the border when they know
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: they've got the issue and that their base is wants
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: tougher policies.
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Especially because even if they could get, even if they
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: get a compromise, which by the way we say is
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: still possible, right? Like deals have come out of more
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: intransigent situations than this, that even if they get a
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: deal that has incredibly restrictive changes to border policy, there'll
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: be enough Republicans calling it a capitulation and a failure
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: to kind of mitigate any political gain they could have.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Because as you said, like Republicans in Congress are more
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: in favor of Ukraine aid than Republican voters. So there
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: are Republicans who want to vote for aid and are
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: looking for a political way to do so. Border security
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: is a way for them to get there, but not
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: if doing it, then all of a sudden, all these
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: House Republicans who say, if it's not our bill, it's
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: basically a kind of amnesty or whatever they're gonna say,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, they're doing something to help their
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: politics and their own members are going to make it
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: seem as though they've capitulated to Democrats.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Like even theoretically, if you get some kind of a
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: deal with Republicans in the Senate who were again, theoretically
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: slightly more moderate on border stuff and might want to
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: compromise that kind of deal, it seems very difficult for
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: that deal to get through the house. Then I think
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the question is like, did they try to split Israel
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: aid off at some point and do that? Though, I
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: don't know. Like, I think the idea, again, that the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Democrats in the Senate should all vote for aid to
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Israel with no conditions is lunacy at this point.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: I do, too. I think they probably will. But I
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: absolutely think it's outrageous. I talked to Senator Welch last
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: week from Vermont. He was talking about all the conditions
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: he wants to see. I mean, there's definitely growing concern
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: about the number of airstrikes by the IDF and the
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: need to condition aid.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: And I haven't seen, I don't know if you've seen, Tommy,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: like any evidence whatsoever that over the last couple of weeks,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Netanyahu has changed strategy at all to do more to
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: limit civilian casualties or settler violence at all.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: The opposite.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's just terrible.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: So one thing Congress did get done is forcing the
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: resignation of University of Pennsylvania President Liz McGill, who, along
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: with the presidents of Harvard and MIT, was called to
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: testify last week about anti-Semitism on campus. When Elise Stefanik
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: asked whether, quote, calling for the genocide of Jews would
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: violate their school's code of conduct, McGill only went as
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: far as to say, quote, if the speech turns into conduct,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: it can be harassment. The other two presidents gave similar answers.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: The clip went viral. It was widely condemned by politicians
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: in both parties. And even though they all tried to apologize,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: McGill ultimately resigned on Saturday. So we haven't talked about
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: this yet. Just been brewing in the background. What do
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: you guys think about this whole controversy?
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: Oh man.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: So I think, first of all, I feel like Stefanik
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: set two traps and they stepped into both. They kind
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: of dove headfirst into both of them. All right. Trap
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: number one is conservatives have created a caricature of what's
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: going on in college campuses. And the character basically says,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: if you express any kind of conservative viewpoint, it's considered bigotry.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: It's considered hate speech. You'll be yelled at. You'll be
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: barked off campus. And then they pull out examples of
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: protest or a conservative judge gets yelled at. And then
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: they say, See, if you express anything other than liberal orthodoxy,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: you're not safe on campus, but you can say any
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: kind of anti-Semitic thing you want and that's okay because
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: this is about espousing what they call like sort of
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: extremist views on gender and race and all the rest.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: So that's like trap number one, that character. The second
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: trap is equating any form of legitimate criticism of Israel
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: or a belief or anti-Zionism at all and trying to
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: equate that completely with anti-Semitism, right? That's what a lot
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: of Republicans in the House have done. They just passed
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: this resolution. And it says right there in the middle,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism, to basically paint anything, anyone who is
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: not supportive of Israel as being anti-Semitic, that is a
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: part of this project. And basically, this hearing was a
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: way to get these college presidents to fall into both
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: of those traps. And in the way, by the way,
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: they'd sat there for hours answering questions. And by the
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: time they got to this moment, they kind of fell
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: in that trap.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Because it's sort of like Ghostbusters. When someone asks if
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: you're a god, you say yes. If someone tries to
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: bait you into doing anything to defend a call for genocide,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: you have to not take that bait.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, they've just seemed so like rigid and
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: lawyered up and tied to their talking points that they
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: somehow were incapable of answering the most obvious question in
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: the world, which is, is genocide bad?
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: That shouldn't stump you if you're a college president.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: But you're right.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Like Stefanik was playing a game in bad faith, which
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: was trying to say she was trying to get these
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: presidents to accept the premise that the word intifada is
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: calling for a genocide. That is just not true. Just
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: not true. Intifada means uprising. Often people are referencing specific
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: points in time. The first intifada was in 1987. It
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: was primarily civil disobedience, so there was rock throwing, there
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: were Molotov cocktails, there was violence. The second intifada started
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: in 2000 and was much more violent. Suicide bombings, huge
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: crackdown in response, just like an intolerable loss of life.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: So the traps he was trying to lay is to say,
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: to get them, it's like if P then Q, a
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: little logic bomb, to say- Do you agree that saying
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: intifada is calling for genocide? Aha. Why didn't you punish
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: those kids then for saying intifada? But they stepped on
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: the rake before she had time to lay her full trap. Yeah,
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: I was just going to say she's like shocked at
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: their response. They can't answer the question. Does calling for
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: the genocide of Jews violate your policy against harassment?
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, like, I don't think
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the trap was that clever that she set.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I didn't even get to it.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: She hadn't even put leaves over the hole yet.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: When you look at the transcript, she actually does separate
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Intifada from the genocide thing. So she starts talking about Intifada,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: which is something, as you point out, Tommy, that does
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: depend on context, whether or not it's violent. So that
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: does depend on context. But then she says, and this
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: is a completely hypothetical because this is not something they
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: heard from students at Penn. what would you say about
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: a call for the genocide of Jews? And if you hear,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: if someone asks you, if your university is okay with
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: students calling for genocide of Jews, you just say no.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: You just say no.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Some questions are hard.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: That's an easy one.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: Some questions are hard.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Easy one.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: The other part about this, I do think that as progressives,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I think it's worth calling out the game. First of all,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: weaponizing anti-Semitism is, is it wrong because there isn't antisemitism?
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: It's wrong because there is a lot of antisemitism and
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: diminishing it and trying to equate a legitimate protest with antisemitism,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: be trying to paint whole movements as being antisemitic. Like,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: like that is, that is, that is dangerous because it
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: turns something that should be serious and treat it as
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: the threat that it is into a political cudgel. First
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: of all, and also by the way, it like changes
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: the incentives for people. Like There is anti-Semitism inside of
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: the anti-Zionism movement. That is a problem. That is a
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: real problem. That is a problem in some parts of
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: the left. And like, if we don't take that seriously,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: if we don't treat that with like the specificity and
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: honesty that it requires, like I just, it's dangerous.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think most people at a Harvard pro-Palestine rally
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: are there to call for a ceasefire and to call
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: for a two-state solution. You know what I mean? It's
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: like sort of self-evident. I think part of the problem
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: more broadly for some of these college presidents is there
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: has been a context created in a lot of progressive
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: spaces that words are equivalent to violence and that sometimes
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: how you perceive those words is more important than the
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: intention of the individual saying them. And I think the
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: intention of the individuals at these pro-Palestine rallies got lost
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: in this bad faith logic trap. And so like long
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: story short, these college presidents looked unbelievably tone deaf when
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: it comes to combating anti-Semitism and they botched their testimony
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: so badly that that I do worry that it could
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: shrink the political space for pro-Palestine activists who just want
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: to save lives on both sides and are just like
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: there for legitimate speech and political purposes because these fucking
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: people couldn't say genocide is bad. And there was a
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: moment earlier in Stefanik's testimony where she asked the president
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: of Harvard, she said, quote, a Harvard student calling for
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: the mass murder of African-Americans is not protected free speech
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: at Harvard, correct? And the president didn't just say, Correct.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: She could.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: She said our commitment to free speech extends. It was
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: just like, wow. Like you're the president of a college.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Throw the talking points book away.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I get that. They all feel a lot of these
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: presidents and administrators at colleges now feel like they're, they're
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: caught in this free speech debate that again, a lot
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: of it's bad faith that the right wing started. It's
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: been weaponized, but like, you can have a code of conduct.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: First of all, a lot of people like first amendment,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: first amendment, it's the code of conduct at a private
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: college university. So you can have the conduct be what
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: you want it to be. Like you should be able
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: to police hate speech, especially hate speech that calls for
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: violence against marginalized groups, whichever the groups may be. And
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: if it, and that's the decision of the administrators. If
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: the speech sort of goes into calling for violence against
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: marginalized groups, really against anyone calls for violence, like then
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: you're right, but it should be the intent of the speech.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And obviously that's a case-by-case basis, but yeah, hate speech
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: that calls for violence, you should be able to police
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: that on campus.
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: And just one other thing about all this is like, oh, right,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: these conservatives don't give a fuck about free speech because
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: the thing that they've been trying to accuse the left
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: of forever, which is basically trying to make conservative views
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: beyond the pale by turning anything you say that isn't
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: progressive into some kind of bigotry to make it unwelcome
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: on college campuses, That is exactly what they're trying to
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: do here. So it's just a.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Farce.
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: But for presidents of colleges and administrators who actually want
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: to like have real standards that everyone can abide by
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: without any hypocrisy. Like maybe start with, okay, yeah, violent
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: speech is violent speech.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: That's step one. Step two, don't go to Congress unless
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: you get subpoenaed.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: They were invited. You should have better things to do. Hey,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: look at this hot stove. I think I want to
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: touch it. Why don't I get on a plane to
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: go touch it?
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: I hear there's a hot stove in D.C. I wonder
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: if I can get there by the end of the day.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Also, I didn't realize, Lovett and I were talking about
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: this before, like did you know that McGill, there was
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: like a long history of, of her getting in trouble
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: for not taking a stance against anti-Semitism even before October 7th.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, good.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: So she's had this long history there, which makes it
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: even crazier for her to accept the invitation to go.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: And I also, look, I also do think it's like
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: the standard, right, is that like these are supposed to
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: be places where people can express unpopular, dangerous, abhorrent views
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: as long as they're not calling for violence against anybody.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: And like that is an important spirit, like that that
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: idea that like, that's what tenure is about. Like the
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: free exchange of ideas, like that is an important part
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: of like the culture on these campuses. But I do
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: think that like, there've been times when these college presidents,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: because of pressure from on campus, from administrations, from professors,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: from faculty, from students that have like, they've, they've put them, they've,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: they've to get through short-term news cycles where they wanted
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: to seem a certain way on certain contentious issues of
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: like put out statements and taken stands.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: And that's put them in a position now. And then
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: they go before Congress and they're put in a position
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: like this, where they have to answer these questions. They
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: suddenly feel on their Hills because they once again, want
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: to go back to the basics of, Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: We don't take a position. Well, we don't take a position.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: I think like we don't take a position is a
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: good position to have for people at a college campus.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Well, and to the point Tommy made too about the, um,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: about how it shrinks the space for Palestinian protesters and
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: other people on the left. Like, I think it is
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: good for the left to understand, too, that when, like,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: some conservative you don't like comes to campus and says
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: some odious things that don't cross the line into directing
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: violence towards people, like, yeah, you're free to protest them,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: you're free to argue with them, tell them they're fucking idiots, but, like,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: the idea that those people shouldn't even be allowed on
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: campus at all, it's the same kind of, because on
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: the flip side of this, If you have Palestinians on
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: campus who are trying to talk about a ceasefire or
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: two-state solution, to then have that be characterized as anti-Semitism
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: automatically and that that shouldn't exist, like, you don't want
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: that either.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Look, a bunch of conservatives just spent their whole weekend
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: trying to get the president of the University of Pennsylvania canceled.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: And she was.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: You canceled her. She was a victim of cancel culture. Now,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: they won't call it that. They'll never think about it
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: that way. But that's exactly what happened. And they're happy
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: And she did apologize, and so do the other presidents.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: Apology doesn't count.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, apologies don't exist.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Stefani going on Twitter being like, I got one for three,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: like she's doing whack-a-mole at the carnival.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: I do think that if you're really for free speech
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: and intellectual freedom, you should be very concerned about the
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: conflation of anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism. Because first of all, a lot
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: of the earliest Zionists were actually anti-Semitic. A lot of
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: them lived in the United States, and they were like,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, yeah, let's build a state for the Jews
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: and send them there. Right? Like, you can imagine how
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: that happens. Two, The suggestion that criticizing Israeli policy is
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: somehow anti-Semitic, I think is just wrong. Israel is a country.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: It's governed by people. Of course. They have political views.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: They can be right and wrong. Right. And they get
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: to vote on those. And so conflating those two is
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: just a very dangerous path to go down.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: And obviously a lot of hard debates here. But again,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: what do you think about a call for genocide?
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Bad.
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Did I get that right?
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Denounce anti-Semitism. Denounce the weaponization of anti-Semitism.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: In Harvard, if you really hate genocide, let's talk about
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: Henry Kissinger. for a little bit.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, there we go.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: And hey, look, and I go back to my position.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: If you want, and I'm comfortable with this, we can
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: just shut Harvard down. I do think that that money
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: can do a lot of good elsewhere.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: I think we've all had enough.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: That's where this needs to go.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: You had a nice run.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: It's done.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: All right. Waitlist me. Waitlist me?
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Oh my God.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: How fucking dare you?
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: What kind of process?
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: What kind of fucking process?
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: I've actually never heard this before.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: And thus he reveals that most criticism of Harvard is
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: for people who did.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Not get in and are pissed. Please, please. Oh, and
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: you went to school in Massachusetts anyway. Oh, tough. I
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: was born there.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't apply to Harvard. Didn't realize that you were
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: carrying that chip on your shoulder.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: Unbelievable.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about what's happening with abortion in Texas. A
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: woman from Dallas named Kate Cox found out that her
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: fetus had a fatal genetic condition and that carrying the
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: pregnancy to term could threaten her own health and ability
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: to have children in the future. Because Texas has a
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: total ban on abortion, she had to go all the
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: way to the Texas Supreme Court to get permission. First
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: time A woman has had to get permission to get
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: an abortion from a court since Roe v. Wade was decided.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: And of course, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton opposed her
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: doing this, asking for permission. He also sent threatening letters
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: to the various hospitals as well, saying that they would
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: be prosecuted if they allowed her to have the abortion.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: But while the Texas Supreme Court was deciding, it was
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: too dangerous for her to wait for the ruling. So
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: she just left the state to get an abortion. This
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: is a horrific, horrific story. We've seen a lot of debate. recently,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I think, about whether abortion will be as big of
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: an issue in 2024 as it was in 2022. I
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: would say a story like this certainly makes it seem
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: like it will be, but what do you guys think?
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things that came out of
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: the polling and the results in 22 is that in
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: places like New York and California, where the threat of
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: state abortion laws, local abortion laws, wasn't as salient, the
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: the results weren't as good for Democrats, that there was
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: a way in which places, in places where people felt
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: the threat personally, locally, it felt more real and severe.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: We saw better outcomes. I do think that like, there's another,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: there's another example to a woman named Brittany Watson, Ohio
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: is facing felony charges. She had a miscarriage at 22 weeks,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: another awful, awful story. And I do think it's like
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: we head into 2024, the fact that if Donald Trump wins,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: And Republicans hold the House and win the Senate. They
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: will pass a nationwide abortion ban. And look, Kate Cox
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: was able to leave Texas to find health care in
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: another place. The goal of Republicans, their explicit goal, is
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: to make sure there is nowhere for people to go
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: to get medical care. There will be no safe place.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: There will be no place where doctors won't face the
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: agonizing choice between practicing medicine and facing criminal or civil liabilities.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: There will be no place where people will feel like
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: they can get the care they need. in time and
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: like making sure that that is real for people everywhere.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Like being in a democratic state will not protect you
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: if there is a national abortion ban. You know, having
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: a good governor who understands this issue will not matter
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: if Republicans win the house, the Senate and the white house.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: And that, that to me is the point we have
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: to be driving home over and over and over again.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: And this is just, it's unspeakably cruel and vindictive and
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: like undercuts a Republican lie that these are decisions that
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: are made carelessly or casually by women or anybody else.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is a woman who wants to have
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: another child. She already went through the hell of of
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: learning that her fetus will not survive. And now she
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: wants to have a big family. So the doctor told
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: her the safest thing to do is have an abortion.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: And because of this dystopian nightmare, she had to go
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: to court to get authorization for a healthcare procedure. Like,
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: can you imagine that? And she's been to the emergency
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: room four times already because of complications. And then this guy,
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: Ken Paxton, is threatening to arrest doctors providing care. Again,
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: you can get 99 years in prison for providing an
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: illegal abortion. 99 years, life in prison in Texas. So,
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: and by the way, she's had two kids before. So
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: she'll probably have to have a C-section again to deliver
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: this child living or dead, which means that could complicate
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: her ability to have kids in the future. So like
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: there might be a small sliver of like extreme religious
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: conservatives who think this is the path we should be
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: going down on. But I think that the majority of
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: even Republicans in this country will think this is a
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: horrifying nightmare. and will not want this. Ken Paxton should
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: not be making these decisions. His last job before he
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: worked in politics was at JCPenney. This man should not
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: be in your fucking hospital room telling you what to do.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: This is unbelievable.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I don't care if his last job was being a
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: fucking doctor, right? It also shows that Republicans trying to
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: have it, find some kind of middle ground on this, right?
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: And some of them are like, well, we will have
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: exceptions for rape or incest or the life and health
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: of the mother. But that still means that those decisions
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: are not being made by the doctors who are treating
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: these women. The decisions are being made by politicians who
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: are writing it into law. And then the doctors have
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to decide, well, is the health really in jeopardy here?
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Is the life really in jeopardy here? And then they
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: have to get court orders and then they have to
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: wait for it to go up through the different, you know,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: they have to go through the district court and then
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: they go to the federal court. It's just a fucking mess,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: which is why Roe v. Wade offered the protections in
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: the first place, because a bunch of politicians and judges
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: should not be having to make these fucking decisions.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: This is literally an attorney general saying, no, no, that
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: doctor is wrong. I know better than this woman's doctor.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: I know better than this person. I will decide what
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: medical care she can and cannot receive.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: And we'll just wait for it to go through the courts.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: And sending threatening emails to hospitals in the Houston area
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: saying he's going to prosecute them. Again, also Ken Paxton,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: by the way, is like the worst of the worst.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: This is a man who was so bad at his
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: job that he was impeached for bribery and abuse of
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: office by Texas Republicans. He might get prosecuted by the
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: feds in the next year or two. I mean, this
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: is the logical end state of.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: Republican policies, even the ones the moderates pretend that they're
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: carving out some middle grounds.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: And I think that's key because they'll, you know, some
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: of them, there's a story in MEC that some of
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: the Republican Senate candidates for 2024 are like trying to
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: moderate their position on abortion. And then you have Trump
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: out there talking about exceptions are important, blah, blah, blah.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: this is why the exceptions thing, the 15 week thing,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: all of these like attempts at its supposed moderation, just
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: like don't actually work in real life. You talked about
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: the 99 years that doctors could get. Missouri Republicans are
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: now introducing legislation that would allow law enforcement to charge
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: women who get abortions with homicides. This is women getting
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: charged with homicide. And if, of course, back in 2016,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: when Trump was running the first time, he said there
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: has to be some kind of punishment for women, which
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: is what Trump said. So Trump's going to try to
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: sneak away from his position on abortion. But as Levitt said,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: if he wins and Republicans hold Congress, which they are
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: likely to do if Donald Trump wins, then we're going
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: to see a nationwide ban. Conversely, if Joe Biden wins
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: and Democrats keep the Senate and you replace Kyrsten Sinema
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: with Ruben Gallego, Democrats can pass a national law that
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: will nullify the Texas ban so that women like Kate Cox,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: even in states like Texas, don't have to leave the state.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: So it's not just to stop awful things from happening
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: in this case. It's also if we elect Joe Biden
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: and Democrats, then we could get national abortion protections for people.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: So just another thing to think about.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Before we go to break, if you're looking for something
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: to binge this holiday season, friends of the pod subscribers
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: now have access to a new limited series feed where
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: you can listen uninterrupted to this land, Dreamtown, Atalanto, and
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: another Russia right now. Great series. Take a listen. Head
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: to cricket.com slash friends where you can sign up and
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: listen to some limited series. Also, catch Pod Save America's
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: final live show of the year in San Jose. It
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: is tomorrow, December 13th. Co-host Adisu Demessi will be there.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: And I will not. I'm on, Emily and I are
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: on Baby Watch.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: What are you talking about? What do you mean?
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be a plane wide away from
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: home if Emily goes into labor early.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: What are you going to do? What are you doing?
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: You're an observer. I'm just kidding. It's basically going to
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: the theater for you.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: Jesus Christ.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Anyway, it's going to be a great show. I can't
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: wait to listen. Get your tickets at crooked.com slash events now.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: When we come back, UAW President Sean Fain sits down
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: with Tommy to talk about the union's historic wins and
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: what comes next.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: Sean Fain is the president of the United Auto Workers.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Under his leadership, the UAW won historic contract victories this
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: past year and now has its sights set on non-union
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: plants across the U.S. Sean, thanks so much for doing
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: the show.
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: Hey, thanks for having me. Great to be here.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I was hoping we.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: Could start with just a little bit of background about you,
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: because I know you've been a UAW member for a
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: very long time, but you were elected president in As
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: an outsider, as a reformer, I don't think a lot
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: of folks were betting on you in the early days
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: when you started to run. Can you explain the basics
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: of the reforms that led to you getting elected?
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: Really, I'm just like a lot of our members. I've
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: been frustrated for the better part of 29 years. We've
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: had a very complacent leadership that just really was what
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: I would say was more of a company union philosophy
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: where they were somewhat working– closely hand in hand with
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: the companies. And, you know, when they do that, workers
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: tend to pay the price. And with all the things
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: that went on in this union, there was a corruption
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: scandal with some of our leaders. You know, the government
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: became involved in that. You know, I think that was
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: a genesis for, you know, we've had reform movements in
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: the past, back in the 80s. And, but, you know,
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: this establishment, the administration caucus is what has ran this
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: union for years, which was the top leadership, they created
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: their own caucus. And, They had immense power over everything,
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: and have had for longer than I've been alive. So
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: with the things that have went on recently in the
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: last several years, there was a reform caucus that formed
• 42:26
  Speaker 5: called Unite All Workers for Democracy, UAWD. And they pushed
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: a referendum for one member, one vote, where every member
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: was able to directly elect the top leadership of this union.
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: In the past, we were elected by a convention system
• 42:42
  Speaker 5: of elections, which every local was allowed so many delegates
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: based on their size of their membership. And, you know,
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: it was a very controlled environment. The conventions of the past,
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: the administration caucus had their hand over it and was
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: able to, you know, twist arms and threaten people and,
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: you know, get the results they wanted. So there was
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: really never a true democratic election in my lifetime. So
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: UAWD was able to push for this referendum and, you know,
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: the membership, uh, supported it. And, you know, it passed overwhelmingly.
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: So we were able to get one member, one vote.
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: And that's really what catapulted myself and, you know, a
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: lot of reformers into these positions of leadership, because without
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: that election, without a direct election of our top leaders,
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't be sitting here right now. So that was
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: really the catalyst.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I bet a lot of people listening are thinking, boy,
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: I'd love a direct election in American politics, that electoral
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: college thing. Seems like a pretty good reform.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: You bet.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: Just six months into your tenure as president, the UAW
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: launched strikes against three of the biggest automakers in the U.S.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: Can you describe for folks what you were fighting for
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: and talk about some of the tactics you used, like
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: the stand-up strike that was so different and successful.
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, that's really the platform I ran on
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: was completely changing our culture in this union, changing everything
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: we've been doing, because what we've been doing has not
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: been working. Our numbers have been going backwards for years.
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: Our conditions have been going backwards for years. And it
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: was really about just, you know, when I was elected
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: was trying to bring in some people that weren't, you know,
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: UAW members that had experience in organized labor and, you know,
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: in growing unions and organizing and bargaining good contracts and,
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: and recognizing people we did have in-house on staff and
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: in the UAW that had a lot of the same
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: frustrations I had that saw the issues that needed to
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: be dealt with. So we got our team put together.
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: And mind you, I'm only eight months into this, so
• 44:41
  Speaker 5: we've done a hell of a lot in eight short months.
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: But it was about changing the culture. We've never ran
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: a contract campaign, as sad as that sounds. We have
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: never ran a contract campaign in my lifetime in the
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: Big Three when it came to bargaining, which... That, to me,
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: was the thing that really got the membership rallied around
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: our issues and their issues. I mean, it's their issues,
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: not mine. And so, you know, we've had these tiers,
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: what we call tiers of workers that, you know, are
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: doing the same work on the same line or the
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: same job in a plant or in a facility. And
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: one person's at, you know, full pay. One person's taking
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: eight years to get to full pay. And another may
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: be a temp worker that's been out there for working
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: as a temp for five or six years. but they're
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: working seven days a week. That's not temporary work. So
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: ending tiers was a big issue. Cost of living allowance
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: naturally because of what happened with inflation the last few
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: years was a massive issue. We've had cost of living
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: allowances since the 1940s and 50s. And, um, it went
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: away with the economic recession, you know, as you know,
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: the companies use the recession as a means to pretty
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: much go backwards on a lot of our victories over
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: the years. And, uh, So that was a big one.
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: You know, retirement insecurity is a huge issue, not just
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: with us, but in this country. So trying to address
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: some of the retirement issues, job security, and then the
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: EV transition, the EV battery work. When I was elected,
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: we were screwed, just to be blunt about it. I mean,
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: the joint ventures these companies had formed to circumvent their
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: obligation to their workers and to our contracts, it's unacceptable.
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: So You know, there were several issues. I mean, we
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: were trying to undo literally decades of going backwards in
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: one contract. And so, you know, we ran a contract
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: campaign to get the members rallied around those issues. And
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: corporate greed. I mean, this all boils down to one thing,
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: and it's corporate greed. And the fact that, you know,
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: that's why we pushed the initiative, you know, and the
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: narrative that the big three had made a quarter of
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: a trillion dollars in profits in the last decade. And
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: CEO pay went up 40% over the last four years.
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: With our 2%, 3% pay increases in the last four
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: years with inflation, we went backwards. And so we really
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: wanted to get members rallied around those issues. And so
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: that was a piece of the contract campaign. The other
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: thing was, you know, the communication, the transparency of our union.
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: We had to turn that around because in the past,
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: members and local leaders and even people on staff were
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: always told, you know, you don't speak to the media.
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: Only the president speaks or only the vice president speaks.
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: But then nobody spoke. So all we ever heard, you know,
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: going into bargaining was, you know, the company putting the
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: narrative out there about the greedy union workers or, you know,
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: they got these pensions or they have this or that
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: and it's bankrupting the company, which is all lies. But
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: we didn't have leadership that was aggressive in responding to
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: that and putting the facts out. So we really, it
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: was important to have transparency with the membership. So throughout
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: the entire process before bargaining and during bargaining, we were
• 47:41
  Speaker 5: doing weekly updates, Facebook Live, social media updates. And really,
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: it just took off. It took off not just with
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: our membership, but nationally and globally. It was great to
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: see that. And I think that all was laying the
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: groundwork for where we were going to go with, you know,
• 47:57
  Speaker 5: we knew with what we were going to be asking for,
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: the companies weren't going to just be willing to freely
• 48:02
  Speaker 5: give it. So in all likelihood, we thought we would
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: have to have a strike. So, you know, typically in
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: the past also, our leadership would pick one company, they
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: would call it the target company, and they would bargain
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: with one company and set the pattern, and then they
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: would go to the next two I never liked that
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: philosophy because I felt like it would leave the other
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: two companies kind of with what they're doing, you know,
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: just on the back burner waiting. And so we wanted
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: to take on all three at the same time. The
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: companies traditionally, knowing that, would drag negotiations out until like
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: a week before the deadline. And then they'd start getting serious.
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: But at that point, the president and the vice presidents
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: would come in and cut the deal behind closed doors
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: with the corporate leadership. So my philosophy in that was
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: I didn't like that. We made it very clear to
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: the companies before we even began bargaining that September 14th
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: was a deadline, not a reference point. It was a deadline,
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: and it was a deadline for all three companies, not one.
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: We were not going to pick a target. The target
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: was all three of them, and we expected them to
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: be at the table and get the agreement done by
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: the 14th, and if they didn't, there would be repercussions
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: for that. There would be action. We knew in all
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: likelihood we'd have to strike to get what we needed
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: to get, so we have a strike fund, and we
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: wanted to figure out what was the best way to
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: attack these companies and you know maximize the effect but
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: also efficiently use our strike fund so that you know
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: we can keep taking action on down the road rather
• 49:24
  Speaker 5: than you know go through all the money in one
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: big massive strike of everybody walking out at the same
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: time so so we came up with a stand-up strike
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: campaign you know and kind of a homage to our
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: sit-down strikes that built the labor movement back in the
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: 30s and And it worked out, you know, I mean, really,
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: this was all, it was uncharted territory for us. Um,
• 49:42
  Speaker 5: we were, you know, doing this, you know, we had
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: a lot of people feed into this, our research team
• 49:46
  Speaker 5: and a lot of, you know, uh, you know, we
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: were mapping out the plants, mapping out each, each company plant,
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: what they did, how it would affect other plants down
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: the line. And we tried to, you know, assimilate targets
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: based off high profile targets, mid-level targets and things and,
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: and the impact it would have on the company. So
• 50:01
  Speaker 5: we really, we really did a lot of legwork on
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: that early in research and just, um, you know, to
• 50:08
  Speaker 5: formulate that plan. So, and it worked masterfully. I mean, it's,
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: you know, so that was really what led into all this,
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: I guess. I mean, it's a long answer, but there was,
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: I hate.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: No, it's good. I mean, it's a complicated, you know,
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: set of actions. And no, but you guys really did
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: a masterful job of getting the narrative out there and
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: talking to folks and I think getting public opinion on
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: your side. And I know that will be important because,
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: you know, I think you've said publicly the next step
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: for the UAW is unionization drives at non-union plants in
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: the U.S., companies like Toyota, Hyundai, Tesla. Now, I know
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: Elon Musk is like, you know, said some pretty nasty
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: things about unions in the past. How does that work?
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: What is like a unionization drive at those non-union factories
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: look like?
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, if you look in the past, I mean, again,
• 50:55
  Speaker 5: we're a different union now than we've been in my lifetime.
• 50:58
  Speaker 5: And I think that's that's the starting part of this
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: is just, you know, I think we have a lot
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: of momentum now, um, uh, throughout this entire contract campaign
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: and through the, through the strike, um, we've literally had
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: thousands of non-union auto workers reaching out to us and
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: actually signing cards online. And, and, um, uh, so, you know, uh,
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: I've always said this, I've always had this philosophy that,
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: you know, when my grandparents' generation, when they, when the
• 51:25
  Speaker 5: UAW formed, I mean, they, people went through a great depression.
• 51:28
  Speaker 5: They wanted a better life for themselves. And so, you know, the,
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: the union, when they organized, you know, they found a
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: better life and it led them, you know, they lived
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: the American dream and that American dream has been dead,
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: you know, since the, I don't want to say the
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: president's name of the eighties, but since that person took
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: over and drove this economy in the ground and drove
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: this country in the ground and, and, you know, went
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: to a different philosophy of just enriching the rich and,
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: and sacrificing the working class and the poor. Um, You know,
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: we've been going through 40 plus years of this and
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: it's time to turn that around. And so, you know,
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: this to me, it's not about the Elon Musk of
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: the world. You know, I mean, you know, Tesla's a
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: company just like the rest of the non-union companies are.
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: And they're getting rich off the backs of their workers. And,
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: you know, it's interesting, you know, looking at. numbers alone.
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: I mean, we looked at the big three. We talked
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: about the quarter trillion dollars in profit the big three
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: made and the 40% CEO pay increases. But when you
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: look at the top 10 non-union auto manufacturers, they made
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: over $ 12 trillion in revenue in the last decade, a
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: trillion dollars in profits. The Japanese and what we call
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: the Japanese and Korean six made 480 billion in profits,
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: and the German three made 460 billion. And Toyota, of
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: all of them, I actually was just in Georgetown two
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: days ago and spoke to some workers from Toyota there
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: in Georgetown who have expressed a desire to organize. And
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: as I told them, these companies will run massive campaigns.
• 53:02
  Speaker 5: They'll bring in union-busting firms. They'll put every negative narrative
• 53:05
  Speaker 5: they can out there about unions. And it's all designed
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: for one reason, to put fear in the mind of workers,
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: to make them afraid of recognizing the real power that
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: they have. I mean, the workers have the power. But
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: when you don't have a union... and you're an employee
• 53:18
  Speaker 5: at will, you don't have a lot of power because
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: they can fire you any day of the week. We
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: talk about the UAW bump. Since we bargained these record contracts,
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: right away, Toyota, three days later, gave an 11% pay
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: increase to their employees. Honda followed suit. Nissan followed suit.
• 53:35
  Speaker 5: Hyundai gave them 25% through 2028, which matched what we
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: had done. They could have done this a year ago.
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: I mean, they could have done it six months ago.
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: Why did they do it now? Because they know the
• 53:44
  Speaker 5: threat is there, that these workers are going to realize
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: the potential of of the power they have. So they're
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: trying to throw them some crumbs, hoping that they'll not
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: come for their full share of the pie. And, you know,
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: you look at all those things and it all comes
• 53:57
  Speaker 5: back to one thing. It's corporate greed. And it's insane
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: to me that, you know, you look at the history
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: of the big three and we played to that in
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: this campaign. Toyota alone made $ 256 billion. They made $ 6
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: billion more than the big three combined in the last decade.
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: And their CEOs pay went up 125% in the last
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: two years. They're doing all that off the backs of
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: the workers. So, you know, this all comes back to
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: one thing, you know, when it comes to organizing. You know,
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: we have the philosophy of record profits that equal record contracts.
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: And these workers don't have contracts. The only way they're
• 54:33
  Speaker 5: going to get a contract is through organizing and joining
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: a union. But they've got to stick to facts. And
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: that was my message to the workers at Toyota. And
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: that's my message to all these workers all over the
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: country that don't have a union is, You know, you
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: have the power and it's only going to happen when
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: workers get fed up and they stand together because the
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: companies and the wealthy class is always taking all the loot,
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: doing what they're doing. You know, having 26 billionaires have
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: as much wealth to have a humanity that happens because
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: they divide the working class over every issue under the sun,
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: whether it's guns or whatever it is. You know, working
• 55:07
  Speaker 5: class people fight over all these things. You know, then
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: they scrape and get by paycheck to paycheck, working seven
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: days a week, working multiple jobs, trying to survive. And
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: the companies in the corporate world and the billionaire class
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: is walking away with all the money and concentrating the
• 55:22
  Speaker 5: wealth in fewer and fewer hands. So when we talk
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: about that, you know, that to me is something that
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: I learned from COVID that, you know, it was a
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: silver lining. If there was one in the COVID pandemic
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: was we had a great example there. If you look
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: at the fast food industry, people said, I'm not coming
• 55:38
  Speaker 5: to work at McDonald's for $ 12 an hour and risking
• 55:41
  Speaker 5: my life. And they stayed home. And what happened? McDonald's
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: started paying $ 20 an hour, $ 25 an hour. The pay
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: went up immensely to get people to come to work.
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: And to me, that's a great lesson for working class
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: people at the power that we have. So when you're
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: an employee at will, you don't have that power as
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: much because you could be fired at any reason or
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: no reason at all as an employee at will. But
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: when you have a union, you can't be. You have
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: due process. You have a contract that governs those terms.
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: And so to me, working class people need to focus on,
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: we need to harness that power. And the best way
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: to do that is organizing and unions and coming together
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: and working and fighting together in all this for, to
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: raise a standard for working class people. And that's, that
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: to me is the key. You know, for instance, Toyota
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: and these companies that gave these raises and stuff here recently,
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: we call the UAW bump. They can take it away tomorrow.
• 56:36
  Speaker 5: The contract we just bargained for, they can't take that
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: away tomorrow. They have to live up to the terms
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: of the agreement. So, There's so many benefits, and I
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: just think workers have to realize the power we have.
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: If we withhold our labor, nothing moves, no matter what
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: industry it is. And that, to me, is a lesson
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: out of COVID and out of the fast food sector,
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: what we saw there and everywhere. The billionaire class and
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: the other parties want to call these people job creators
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: or whatever stupid name they want to give them. They're
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: exploiters is what they are. And we have the power,
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: but if we, they, you know, billionaire class to corporate
• 57:10
  Speaker 5: class can build all the factories and all the businesses
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: they want. But if workers don't do the work, nothing moves,
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: nothing's going to get produced, nothing will get done. So
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: we have to recognize that power and it's organized labor's
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: job to lead that fight. So that's really what this
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: whole initiative is about.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: Agreed. You mentioned political support in your answer there, you know,
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: president who we won't name rhymes with pagan. Um, obviously
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: the workers who put their jobs on the line and
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: hit the picket line deserve all the credit for these
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: recent successes. But I'm wondering what it meant to you,
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: to your members to have political support from the white house,
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: to have president Biden become the first president to join
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: a picket line.
• 57:51
  Speaker 5: Oh, it's a big deal. I mean, it, uh, it's
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: never happened. Um, you know, so, uh, naturally it's, it's
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: a big deal. Um, And that's one thing else, another
• 58:01
  Speaker 5: thing that I'm proud of when we took over. We
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: had a history in this union and a lot of
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: organized labor of just endorsing one party and not really
• 58:11
  Speaker 5: requiring much work out of them. And so that's one
• 58:17
  Speaker 5: thing I said early on was we were not just
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: going to give endorsements. They're going to be earned. And
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: we mean that. And there was a lot of work
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: to be done with the EV battery transition. And, you know,
• 58:27
  Speaker 5: the proof's in the pudding, you know, for our members
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: and for me as far as when we make endorsements. So,
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: you know, President Biden coming and visiting the picket line
• 58:35
  Speaker 5: was a big deal. Their team working with us, Secretary
• 58:38
  Speaker 5: of Labor Julie Hsu and U.S. Trade Ambassador Catherine Tai,
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: you know, dealing with some of the Korean issues with
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: some of these partnerships that these companies had. You know,
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: they worked hard with us and not just with us,
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: with the companies to to make this happen. So, you know,
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: I think there's two disparities when you look at these
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: two candidates right now. I mean, obviously, you have a
• 58:59
  Speaker 5: president that came and visited the picket line and stood
• 59:01
  Speaker 5: with workers, and you had another former president that went
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: to a non-union business and had a rally for union
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: workers at a non-union business, and that person's just trying
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: to play to the crowd. And it's, you know, I
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: think workers are smarter than that. You look at the
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: track record of that person and he has an abysmal
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: track record when it comes to unions and organized labor
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: and workers having their fair share. So, you know, there's
• 59:23
  Speaker 5: two With the two leading candidates, there's two great disparities there.
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, and so obviously, but, you know, the president
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: coming and visiting our picket line was a big deal. And,
• 59:33
  Speaker 5: you know, we still have work to do, but we're
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: definitely on the right track.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: About that sort of broader labor record in contrast. I mean,
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: I know Biden joined the picket line. You said you
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: talked about the work he's done with you guys on
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: EVs and the battery factories, but also the NLRB has
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: taken steps. to prevent employers from unfairly impacting union recognition
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: votes by firing pro-union workers. I saw one reporter call
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: that the NLRB's most important ruling in decades for labor.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: There's new overtime rules. They're updating the Davis-Bacon Act. And
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: then when you look back at the Trump record, it's
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: him stacking the courts with anti-labor judges. He made Eugene Scalia,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: who's a union-busting corporate lawyer, his labor secretary. NLRB's making
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: it harder for workers. But I still noticed that Trump
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: got 40% of the vote from union households according to
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: the 2020 exit polls. So I'm just wondering what you
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: think leads to that level of support. Is it people
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: just care about other things that aren't necessarily union specific?
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: Is it lack of understanding of that contrast you talked
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: about earlier? What's your take?
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 5: I think we have to do a better job. Again,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 5: I go back to our leadership. Our leadership's been silent
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: for years, for decades. And we have to get the
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 5: facts out there. And even with this organizing campaign, you know, it's,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: you know, as I told these workers at Georgetown the
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 5: other day, and we're going to keep talking about this,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 5: you know, the companies put the fear out there. They
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: want fear, fear, fear. That's how they operate. But we
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: have the facts on our side. Working class people have
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: the facts on our side. And the facts are very
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: simple when it comes to this. You know, when we
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: talk about the profits of these companies, and it's no
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: different in politics. You know, I think the former president
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: who I, refuse to say his name. You know, the
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: facts speak for themselves about where he stands for working
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 5: class people. And I think we really have to put
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 5: that out there. We really have to continue to pound
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 5: that home to our members and working class people in general. Again,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: I go back to, you know, the billionaire class, the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: wealthy class, by design, they create a lot of issues
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: out there and try to divide the electorate over single issues.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 5: And it works. It's worked in the past, but we've
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: got to be focused on what matters and And what
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: matters at the end of the day is we go
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: to work to put food on the table. We go
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: to work to have a decent standard of living. And
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: most people are struggling in that realm. The majority of
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: people don't have any retirement savings, can't afford to save
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 5: for retirement. And so there are a lot of issues
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 5: I think that, you know, that I think the Democrat
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: Party needs to get focused on and really we need
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 5: to drive together. And I think we'll have a lot
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 5: of success, a lot more success. I think, you know,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 5: the last person getting elected in, you know, prior to
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: president Biden. Um, I think that was more of a,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 5: I don't know if I can drop an F mom
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 5: or not, but an F you to the establishment because
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 5: you know, that they were just fed up. People were,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: people are frustrated. They're, they're frustrated with going backwards and
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 5: fighting and struggling. And so I think that was just
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 5: basically a fuck you to everyone that I'll vote for
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: this idiot because I'm just pissed. And, um, yeah, so
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: I think we really have to connect the dots, you know,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: and just really put the facts out there. The facts
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: speak for themselves. And so I just think we really
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: need to bury, you know, embed that. And I think
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 5: it'll change.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It was a fuck you to elites. It was
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: a fuck you to the establishment. It was people feeling
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: like it didn't matter who they voted for. Nothing changed
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: significantly in their lives. So, yeah, I agree with you there.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: Last question. Speaking of divisive issues, as I was preparing
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: for this and reading up on you, I heard that
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: you're a big 90s rap guy.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know if how you bridge the East Coast,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: West Coast divide that was really problematic for a long time,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: but also that you occasionally will do some rapping and karaoke.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: Is this, is this factual?
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 5: I've done it. Yeah, I've done a few, but yeah,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: I guess I'm Midwest. So, you know, I like, I
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 5: like the East Coast and West Coast. I mean, I
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: like Tupac, but I love, you know, I mean, I
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 5: love Public Enemy. I love, you know, a lot of
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 5: the music back in the nineties, but I mean, even,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: I mean, I raised two daughters. So, I mean, my
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: daughters are 28 and 31 now, but, you know, I mean, they, I, I,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 5: we always, we shared music, you know, so, uh, I
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 5: always stay up to date on all that stuff.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: So they keep you young.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: You bet.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: So, I mean, it's, um, I love all the genres
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 5: of music, but naturally I played basketball back in the
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: eighties and high school and stuff. So I was always, uh,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: you know, back, uh, run DMC was my days. I
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: hate to say my age and the beastie boys came
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 5: out my senior year. So, you know, I'm, I love it.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: Listen, I'm 43, so the 90s were my defining generation
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: for music, for culture, for everything. I have a one-year-old daughter,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: so God knows what she'll be listening to when she's
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: in high school that I'll be either hating or trying
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: to pretend I understand. But listen, thank you so much
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: for doing the show. Thanks for all the work you're doing.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: It's incredibly impressive and inspiring, and keep at it. Best
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: of luck at these Tesla and everywhere else. Oh, yeah.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 5: No, I appreciate it. And I look forward to hopefully
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: more dialogue in the future and talking about more victories
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: to come with organizing. And we're going to grow. We're
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 5: going to grow the working class and grow this movement.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 5: And it's time working class people get their fair share.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: Amen. Well, thank you again.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Sean Fain for joining us. Everyone have a
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: great week. And you'll all hear the San Jose show
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: on Thursday.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: Bye, everyone.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producers
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: are Olivia Martinez and David Toledo. Our associate producer is
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Farrah Safari, writing support from Hallie Kiefer. Reid Cherland is
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Madeline Herringer is
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroat is our
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant. Thanks
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: David Toles, Kirill Pelleviv, and Molly Lobel. Subscribe to Pod
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Save America on YouTube to catch full episodes and extra
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: video content. Find us at youtube.com slash at Pod Save America. Finally,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: you can join our Friends of the Pod subscription community
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and a great discussion on Discord. Plus,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: it's a great way to get involved with Vote Save America.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Sign up at crooked.com slash friends.