Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Simon Exton & Si Hart about their choice of The Web Planet (1/6)

Transcript

Talks to Simon Exton & Si Hart about their choice of The Web Planet (1/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:42
  And life, the Doctor Who commentary podcast old friends
• 0:46
  and new friends are here today. Somewhat confusingly, both
• 0:51
  called Simon. So for the purposes of this
• 0:54
  recording, one will be site and that's Simon heart.
• 0:57
  Say hello. Hello.
• 1:00
  And the other is Simon extern, say hello Simon.
• 1:05
  Hello Simon. I know what I'm supposed to do.
• 1:11
  I reckon Island Simon. You've got a number of podcasts,
• 1:16
  having you of your own little bit about those.
• 1:20
  I do a podcast with a very old and dear friend called Ken moss.
• 1:26
  And he and I met at a big screen, screening of rows in the
• 1:32
  center of Liverpool, way back in 2005.
• 1:37
  And we've been friends ever since and every so often we
• 1:40
  would get together for weekends of Doctor Who and tele fantasy,
• 1:44
  because he's never actually had a girlfriend that has.
• 1:48
  But had any interest in that kind of thing.
• 1:50
  I've almost never had a boyfriend who's had any interest
• 1:54
  in that kind of thing. So we sort of ditched the other
• 1:57
  halfs every so often and get together.
• 2:00
  And Watch old stuff wash up. And then after a few years, when
• 2:06
  I was starting to recycle the suggestions of things to watch,
• 2:11
  we said well, why don't we start recording our thoughts?
• 2:13
  So that we know what we thought about these things.
• 2:16
  And it was a very, very short trip from that to setting up a
• 2:19
  podcast. And it's been going for a, it's
• 2:21
  been going for a few years. Now, we do about two-thirds
• 2:26
  archive, television and one-third Doctor Who, and when
• 2:31
  we do, We do do it as a commentary, a fantastic.
• 2:36
  What's the worst part? The most out-there thing that
• 2:38
  you've talked about. Then I also weirdest thing you
• 2:40
  guys have discussed, we've got one of the things that we really
• 2:48
  really different it differ in our opinion on is something
• 2:51
  called the corridor people. Oh yes, I've heard a beautiful
• 2:55
  horrible thing. The corridor people it is four
• 2:59
  episodes of utterly bonkers 60s weirdness which I love beyond
• 3:04
  measure and can absolutely cannot stand.
• 3:09
  And we did we did an episode on that and it is the most.
• 3:13
  So opposed we've been on anything because it was torture
• 3:17
  for him and I absolutely loved it.
• 3:20
  But then he made me watch the Alan Clark diary.
• 3:21
  So he kind of got his own back. I'm going to seek out your
• 3:25
  Corridor people episode tomorrow and watch it and listen to it.
• 3:28
  Sorry. It has amazing.
• 3:31
  And we've also done some Tomorrow People, which is quite
• 3:37
  There are some special episode 2, The Tomorrow People.
• 3:40
  And I know what recently, okay I decided to dip my toes so I just
• 3:45
  watched some like Random episodes.
• 3:47
  Okay so I watched the first episode of every season big
• 3:52
  mistake and then I watch this episode of featured, Peter
• 3:56
  Davison in gold pants and he was from a Southern state world.
• 4:05
  And everyone was talking in an accident.
• 4:07
  Hey, it's like a bug. It was the weirdest thing I've
• 4:10
  ever seen. There was a comedy sequence in a
• 4:12
  Grocer's where the greengrocer got Shore would like with blood.
• 4:16
  I was like, this is totally very strange.
• 4:21
  That particular episode of the corridor people is the only
• 4:24
  other thing that we've done a commentary for because I was a
• 4:31
  bit cruel and that was the first tour of people that I inflicted
• 4:34
  on Ken. And I wanted to record his
• 4:36
  reaction and it was fairly priced as we've done a few other
• 4:39
  since it is Unforgettable. Now, you haven't actually named
• 4:43
  your. So if you could do that now,
• 4:48
  well, that the main ones called the external sex Paramount and
• 4:51
  we've got a couple of spin-offs from that.
• 4:53
  So we do a few regular features in it.
• 4:57
  We do we always do a dream review.
• 5:00
  I call that the tonic screwdriver and we, because I
• 5:05
  know quite a lot of people who like gin but don't really want
• 5:07
  to sit through great. Long description of Doctor Who
• 5:10
  while they're listening to Jim reviews.
• 5:13
  We've taken that out with. There's a separate tonic
• 5:16
  screwdriver podcast. And we also do a section called
• 5:19
  the black archive, which is things that are missing from the
• 5:23
  archive that we'd like to come back.
• 5:27
  We've started doing reviews of audios, so big finish audios
• 5:34
  some of the BBC audios and to old stuff, dating back to the
• 5:41
  goons and things like that. So, we've done over a fair mix
• 5:43
  of those and we call that oral intercourse.
• 5:48
  Yeah. But you do you know what?
• 5:58
  YouTube channel coming out soon and we're calling it finished
• 6:00
  big. So I think we're after I've
• 6:04
  well, yeah, I think Doctor Who and naughtiness comes hand in
• 6:07
  hand, you know? Absolutely weird.
• 6:10
  It's a kind of a love-hate with with big finish because we've
• 6:16
  picked ones that are easy to talk about and that's either the
• 6:19
  really good ones are the really bad ones.
• 6:21
  Yeah, we deliberately started off doing the really good ones
• 6:24
  because I I hate rubbish. Thanks and big finish.
• 6:27
  Do such good stuff. We didn't want to start up
• 6:30
  rubbishing. It and then, then the secrets of
• 6:35
  debt sin crept in and Well, he was finally also God.
• 6:51
  Finally, we do want a complete separate one called Kinky Boots,
• 6:54
  which is an episode by episode re-watch of the original
• 6:57
  Avengers kinky booth. That sounds amazing.
• 7:01
  I got his house. I got lots of listen to, you
• 7:03
  know, but before we skip into this episode, don't think you're
• 7:08
  gonna get away with this. Sigh heart because you have your
• 7:12
  own podcast as well. We haven't really spoken about
• 7:16
  much on this thing so we never asked me what you got.
• 7:21
  Okay whoa yeah well I have maximum power which is the
• 7:26
  Blake's of podcast as we say because it's better than all the
• 7:29
  rest. Sorry to all your listeners of
• 7:31
  the all the other ones without its we are doing it episode by
• 7:36
  episode with a cast of podcast. Is from across the world which
• 7:43
  has been great fun, but very difficult to schedule.
• 7:46
  As you probably know him from doing, I'm titled Star Trek
• 7:49
  projects. But yeah, it's been really good
• 7:52
  at this condom really well. So that's and yeah.
• 7:56
  We have just finished recording Series.
• 7:58
  Be other than the retrospective. And now I've got to sit and edit
• 8:03
  all the episodes of Series. Be you get on with it, please.
• 8:06
  I'm just binge listen to the second half you'll season and
• 8:09
  now I I want more. Well, you have to wait.
• 8:11
  I've only done two so far so it's because you spend most your
• 8:15
  time doing this. Honestly.
• 8:17
  Go that well yeah you do take up a lot of my time.
• 8:19
  Joe that's not my fault. Don't normally complain and say
• 8:25
  listen I'm throw this out to all the Simon's now, what are we
• 8:30
  gonna watch today? I'll be bold enough to watch
• 8:33
  today. And what are your initial
• 8:35
  thoughts on this story? This so he better say what we're
• 8:46
  doing? Yes.
• 8:47
  I picked a doctor who story. I absolutely love and has not
• 8:54
  quite the same reception to the majority, the rest of fandom.
• 8:58
  It's the web Planet, I think the web planet, right?
• 9:02
  How can you not love Hartnell? It is about the best Tardis team
• 9:08
  that he had. Apart from belém belém Polly who
• 9:12
  are clearly the best child esteem ever, but it is midseason
• 9:20
  to. So they've all found their
• 9:21
  stride. The production's found, its
• 9:23
  stride there there, put the putting out really good stuff.
• 9:28
  Pretty much every week, it is about the most inventive Doctor
• 9:32
  Who ever gets and certainly the most visually inventive.
• 9:37
  And the most ambitious, ambitious.
• 9:44
  Yeah, I agree with you and and nothing that has nothing that
• 9:49
  has come close. No, they never never been as out
• 9:55
  there as this story ever again. No, no.
• 10:03
  Humanoid characters beyond the regulars, realizing an entire
• 10:07
  alien world. Even like I think even when it
• 10:09
  comes to like the dialogue of things like that which is
• 10:11
  steeped in metaphor and poetry and it's it's weird with a beard
• 10:16
  this story. But do you think there's a
• 10:18
  confidence in series 2 then in season 2?
• 10:21
  Sorry. That like they're kind of like,
• 10:23
  they know they made it so they can try and be a bit more
• 10:25
  experimental. Yes, I think there is nothing
• 10:28
  that goes on through to season 3 as well and then by the time you
• 10:31
  get into season for its kind of crystallizing into what Doctor
• 10:36
  Who would be for pretty much the rest of the classic rum.
• 10:40
  And so that's why in season 4, you see the end of the the
• 10:43
  historical whereas here you can Bounce from ancient Rome to to
• 10:49
  vortice you can have Something as experimental as this or they
• 10:58
  the first episode of the Space Museum which is again very
• 11:04
  ambitious from a storytelling point of view.
• 11:07
  The other thing that we don't really appreciate looking back
• 11:12
  is that because there were no part 1, part 2 part, whatever
• 11:17
  you didn't know tuning into a new story, whether it was going
• 11:20
  to be a six-part epic or the rescue.
• 11:24
  Our it's all over and over and done with within two episodes.
• 11:26
  So it all really just kept their the audience guessing.
• 11:30
  There's literally no format no formula.
• 11:34
  Like as we come to recognize it later on I went to for pastors
• 11:37
  with a six-part at the end. It's a pseudo.
• 11:40
  Historical it. So this it's a lot like anything
• 11:42
  goes in Partners, I love about hardest.
• 11:45
  I've ever, it's just like they tried everything, you know, and
• 11:49
  some things, stick some things didn't like they didn't try
• 11:52
  anything like this again. That doesn't mean I don't think
• 11:56
  this is a success but yeah, I just I love the variety of this,
• 12:03
  you know. And just let's give it a go, you
• 12:05
  know. Yeah.
• 12:07
  Anything goes just that it's it's joy and they get all these
• 12:11
  offers that come in with just an idea and just give them time to
• 12:17
  explore it. And then you've got The Talented
• 12:22
  designers in the BBC. See, who are realizing it and
• 12:26
  being imaginative on their 2500 pounds, they've got to make each
• 12:31
  episode and finding ways to do this stuff.
• 12:35
  That are are incredible. It doesn't always come off, but
• 12:39
  they're trying their very best painter.
• 12:42
  Season 2 has some amazing visuals.
• 12:47
  There's obviously we're Planet but plans are giants.
• 12:51
  Okay, the story is a bit a bit cloudy, but the visuals are
• 12:54
  fantastic. Yeah.
• 13:05
  And like I said, sudden the Dalek invasion of earth going
• 13:07
  out on location for the first real time and just Doctor Who
• 13:14
  becoming really big for the first time an epic.
• 13:17
  Epic story telling. Well look guys, are you ready to
• 13:21
  skip into episode 1? Let's let's head to vortice and
• 13:24
  see what awaits us. Okay, I'm ready to be tracked
• 13:29
  down from all astral plane please.
• 13:39
  Okay on 3 123. If we go.
• 13:48
  So what do you think about these titles?
• 13:49
  And I love him. I absolutely love the.
• 13:51
  I mean, I know I am a huge fan of 62.
• 13:56
  It's before my time, I don't even really remember Jon Pertwee
• 14:01
  watching it first time around, but there's still something.
• 14:06
  Weirdly nostalgic about the these titles.
• 14:09
  They look incredible you compare them to other TV titles that
• 14:13
  were around at the time. So so the early Avengers that
• 14:16
  kind of thing. That years ahead of that time.
• 14:22
  Let me, yeah, I'm pretty sure that that's the kind of Timeless
• 14:25
  on they as well, which is brilliant.
• 14:28
  This is back in a time when we could still be in the historical
• 14:31
  Guard from the previous Adventure.
• 14:35
  Which I also happen to love. Oh man.
• 14:40
  Okay, sorry. Coach isn't a bad Hartnell
• 14:44
  historical. But what about the contrast
• 14:48
  between the Romans and the web Planet?
• 14:49
  I mean, that's some confidence right to go from one to the
• 14:52
  other. Yeah, you've gone from
• 14:56
  historical fast to science fiction weirdness in the space
• 15:01
  of a week. That's wonderful.
• 15:05
  But there is a question, I want to throw out to both of you.
• 15:10
  And and be honest with me. So I said, this is one of the
• 15:14
  most ambitious Doctor, Who stories they ever did, is this
• 15:17
  too ambitious to be realized with a doctor who budget given,
• 15:23
  you know, the reception that this story, He generally has.
• 15:30
  I don't think so. I think it works.
• 15:37
  I don't think that there's a part of the Venom grubs, which
• 15:40
  do look a bit rubbish. I don't, I don't think there's a
• 15:44
  bad costume the sets of vortice look great.
• 15:52
  And by the time you're getting into the temples of light, they
• 15:54
  look fantastic. Did it?
• 15:57
  I would love to see this colorized just to see what the
• 15:59
  temples of light would look like.
• 16:01
  Colorized the carcinoma set is great.
• 16:05
  We know, don't we from previous photographs and says that, you
• 16:09
  know, they went all out color. Didn't like the Marco Polo, the
• 16:13
  Aztecs set photos are as takes just for us.
• 16:19
  Yeah, I'd like to see that color as well.
• 16:21
  What about you sigh? Yeah, I I think pulling off an
• 16:26
  alien. They've they've pulled off alien
• 16:29
  planets in Lime Grove and Riverside already.
• 16:35
  So they're confident that they I can do this and although you can
• 16:40
  sometimes hear that they're on a wooden stage and you can hear
• 16:44
  they're sort of footsteps Channel.
• 16:46
  What? I don't care, it's vile.
• 16:49
  I think they do a great job. I don't, I'm not entirely sure.
• 16:52
  Richard. Martin is always up to the job
• 16:55
  of making it as convincing as it could be, but that also is part
• 17:00
  of the joy of this story. I do want to talk about Richard
• 17:04
  mind, as we go through this because I do it.
• 17:06
  Agree with yet. But here's our first appearance
• 17:08
  of the zombie red. And for all I love this story, I
• 17:14
  do think there's our B look great.
• 17:16
  I think it was a mistake to have them in the first episode,
• 17:18
  because there is already so much going on with the Tardis team
• 17:22
  and Vicki's headaches and going out and getting caught up in the
• 17:26
  web and the acid pool and everything.
• 17:28
  They could do a proper monster reveal at the end of the first
• 17:31
  episode. Now, it's going to say do you
• 17:33
  think that that would be the best time for it to hear at the
• 17:35
  end of episode 1? Well, there's only a couple of
• 17:38
  scenes that they appear in and I I want edited them out to see
• 17:45
  what it would look like and it works really well.
• 17:47
  Oh my God. You what you took?
• 17:49
  Hold of an episode of Doctor Who and re-edited it.
• 17:52
  Yeah, it's valid it. Oh my wrist.
• 17:54
  People do my respect for? You has just gone forever
• 17:56
  because you get. Yeah, you get that wonderful
• 18:00
  first world, first shot, the Vicki Seas of the Czar be on the
• 18:04
  scanner so that is that that's a cliffhanger shot.
• 18:07
  Yeah it's alright. Rises up.
• 18:09
  Doesn't it into the screen? Yeah I did you see this looks
• 18:12
  great. Maybe not the Venom grub but
• 18:15
  there's our B look great but they they would look equally
• 18:18
  great being introduced right at the end of the series.
• 18:22
  Do you know what, that must have been.
• 18:24
  I mean, it, I've read reports of, like, the back problems.
• 18:27
  People had playing bizarre be like that.
• 18:29
  Must've been, hellish to wear that costume.
• 18:31
  Oh God. I because then the poor fellows
• 18:33
  in. There are basically bent double
• 18:35
  with the weight of grown, man, on their back and doing, I know
• 18:41
  people would be able to go with that quite happily for the
• 18:45
  number of hours. Much my friend, Dan always used
• 18:55
  to say. It's like a man with a wardrobe
• 18:58
  straps off his back, trying to hobble rounds and it's no wonder
• 19:03
  they're a bit ungainly, but they look for those actors must have
• 19:09
  thought I was like tree trunks been over it there.
• 19:12
  Rubbing their pools to get. I mean she's not going to a gay
• 19:14
  sauna and it honestly did you act up the web over the Tardis?
• 19:20
  Yeah, really nice. I got no they're trying lots of
• 19:23
  things and again this is sort of pulsing image on the screen is
• 19:28
  really different to what you usually get.
• 19:32
  And I was listening to the commentary while I Was preparing
• 19:34
  for this and apparently they deliberately redid the Tardis
• 19:39
  set one to expand it a bit but also to put the door on to the
• 19:43
  right so it wrong-footed the viewers a bit being so used to
• 19:46
  it being on the left-hand side. Yeah.
• 19:49
  I really love about 60s who and they lost it in the seventies.
• 19:58
  I don't know why is that they have two shots in the The Tardis
• 20:02
  looking out on the planet. Well, I think that I have enough
• 20:07
  that one, lovely effect, they do it in the Daleks as well.
• 20:09
  Going out into the jungle. I think they do it in the sense,
• 20:12
  right. So into the space they do,
• 20:13
  there's a fantastic one in the sense, right?
• 20:15
  Because in the center rights it's not just open the door and
• 20:18
  look out the camera, actually follows the veil, exact a ship
• 20:22
  and it really does do that. Give for years and years and
• 20:25
  years in the new series, they've gone for the alternative option,
• 20:29
  which is being outside, looking in, which is a lot cheaper.
• 20:32
  Because you can just put it back cloth behind them.
• 20:34
  Whereas here, they've built a bit of a set to go out that I
• 20:37
  think that's a lovely effect. And, you know, I'm a real sucker
• 20:42
  for tardis scenes. I think, I think they really
• 20:45
  make a story and they're beautifully done in this and
• 20:48
  it's just the for regulars. Bouncing off each other.
• 20:51
  Dr. Jackson, are you? I'm sorry, I had to be rude.
• 20:55
  Knocked out. Does that make you that when you
• 20:57
  get extremely hard during the compilation and Castro valve
• 20:59
  with it? Because it's full of hard to
• 21:02
  see. To know stories.
• 21:04
  Not as much as Matthew older house.
• 21:33
  And it's like she has. She's always been there.
• 21:37
  She is. So good Vicki.
• 21:40
  She's up for the adventure. He just wants to get out there
• 21:46
  and have fun. I always used to think Vickie
• 21:49
  was a bit rubbish, to be perfectly honest beginning
• 21:52
  because she different, and I've changed my opinion completely,
• 21:55
  she's there, as surrogate granddaughter.
• 21:57
  She's replacement for Susan. She's not there to resolve plot.
• 22:00
  She's there to drive plot. She's there to be the one that
• 22:03
  gets captured, but if you watch her performance, When she's in
• 22:09
  the background, she's there. And she's doing stuff and she's
• 22:11
  reacting. It's not your Some of the Peter
• 22:19
  Davison female companions, you just stare off into space.
• 22:25
  And look how much space they've gotten the Tardis there.
• 22:28
  You rarely see that in the classic era.
• 22:32
  No no I say I'm particularly in this era where quite often
• 22:36
  because the studio so small you've got two walls and the
• 22:40
  console. If you're lucky And here, it's
• 22:43
  big again. And you've got extra rooms
• 22:45
  again. Yeah.
• 22:47
  How is that? Like, I know, I know very little
• 22:50
  a, and I solve a no ties to cost of that massive set by kind of
• 22:54
  spreading the cost across the first season.
• 22:57
  But then why is it then that, as we go through 60s, who in
• 23:00
  Stephanie's, who, she seems like console refused to get smaller
• 23:03
  and smaller, doesn't it until when Battlefield, it's just a
• 23:06
  backlog of the other thing. I've never never actually
• 23:10
  noticed before and I've just noticed on the Tardis console.
• 23:12
  In Seoul there. There's there's a Roman drinking
• 23:14
  cup. There we go.
• 23:18
  Nick's Nero's goblets. Is this those fabulous couches
• 23:23
  that come out of the walls. Well, this week, I think that I
• 23:29
  don't think. I think they're already out of
• 23:31
  the wall. It's edge of Destruction.
• 23:34
  Were they The doctor takes an annual trip to Ikea, you know,
• 23:39
  planet Earth, planet of the Daleks.
• 23:40
  He did it as well. So why do you think then Simon
• 23:48
  extra? Oh my God, this is so hard
• 23:50
  doing. Why do you think dr.
• 23:55
  Exten, that this is one of the best sets of regulars like as a
• 23:59
  whole, but you've mentioned Vicki.
• 24:01
  But what about the others? They are all incredibly good
• 24:07
  actors that that's kind of the top and bottom of it.
• 24:10
  So with companions you get You get level of writing and you get
• 24:17
  level of acting ability. And if you've got a really good
• 24:20
  actress like Maureen O'Brien, she will work beyond the fact
• 24:24
  that Vicki isn't the most interestingly, written
• 24:27
  character, but she just makes it her own.
• 24:30
  And every little bit of it. She drags out as much as she
• 24:33
  can. and in the opposite way, you get characters that are
• 24:38
  brilliantly written but not actually particularly well
• 24:42
  played I'm trying to think of an example.
• 24:46
  Now, Donna 99 percent of Catherine tapes, portrayal is
• 24:57
  extraordinary is comedy, strop, and done really well because
• 25:01
  she's a comedian. Oh my God, just floored me on my
• 25:04
  own podcast. Well, but the times where she
• 25:07
  has to throw that extra emotional depth, she doesn't
• 25:11
  really do it. The bid in silence.
• 25:13
  In the library where she she has to say goodbye to her children.
• 25:16
  She knows they're not real but she supposed to feel all the
• 25:18
  emotions, it's as flat as anything, it just doesn't work.
• 25:23
  Now look, we already get into this now, I could not disagree
• 25:26
  with you more but are clearly. I think you need to come back
• 25:29
  and do a Donna episode because that would be a really
• 25:31
  interesting discussion. I think that's an interesting,
• 25:34
  interesting example, is that one eye for you give for that's a
• 25:37
  super interesting example. I'd actually had dinner with a
• 25:43
  very old friend, a few nights ago and I was saying exactly the
• 25:47
  same thing and he had exactly the same reaction that you had
• 25:51
  yesterday. Is that the joy of all this
• 25:53
  though is that we're all coming night with different opinions,
• 25:56
  you know, and actually, he knows you anyway, who is it?
• 26:00
  I'll tell you when we're off Mike.
• 26:02
  Oh There's a good chance you know.
• 26:12
  So anyway one thing which I think is how absolutely fabulous
• 26:17
  way of Hardware is in this episode I mean I know he's
• 26:19
  forgetting his lines all that half the time and that's why
• 26:21
  he's giving away like a lunatic. But man.
• 26:24
  Oh man he plays he sings so well.
• 26:26
  I've never been convinced about that forgetting his lines bit
• 26:29
  because if you listen to the audio of the massacre, when he
• 26:32
  plays the Abbot, he is script. Perfect.
• 26:35
  So I think an awful lot of it is before is It's deliberate.
• 26:41
  Doddery old man performance. Because he's going to come onto
• 26:48
  the Chatterton Chesterton chatterley.
• 26:52
  Whatever. Chatter there is no way.
• 26:54
  He would forget the name of a character that he's been playing
• 26:58
  opposite every week for 42 years.
• 27:00
  So there is a lot of the beliefs of deliberate belief loves.
• 27:04
  And the other thing is they were doing week in week out for most
• 27:09
  of the year, and he was carrying pretty much carrying the show,
• 27:13
  so he had a hell of a lot to learn.
• 27:16
  It's not surprising that he forgets the occasional thing.
• 27:18
  I mean, we know, we know that come the end of his run.
• 27:21
  He was having trouble with his lions eye.
• 27:24
  That's not I did, but I think he's performances in season two
• 27:29
  are so confident. Like even if he forgets The Old
• 27:32
  Lion, who can this all of this stuff?
• 27:34
  You know, are coaster boy. He's he's basically the show is
• 27:38
  his, isn't it? Like, yeah, he's running.
• 27:42
  It really is. He's he's just just so twinkly
• 27:46
  and fun in this episode. And the most every second that
• 27:50
  he's on screen, you're watching him on the screen because
• 27:55
  everything about him is magical and fun in this episode.
• 27:59
  And this is one of my favorite individual episodes of Doctor.
• 28:04
  Who unexpectedly? I remember watching this when
• 28:09
  BSB showed it in 1990, which is first time I've seen it and sort
• 28:14
  of coming The back of received fan wisdom, I was really
• 28:20
  surprised at just how much I loved this episode.
• 28:23
  I was just absolutely entranced by it because there's nothing
• 28:29
  else quite like it and the atmosphere of it and the music
• 28:32
  that they choose from the stock is really, really, really well
• 28:38
  Chosen. And you've just got your free
• 28:40
  regulars, carrying an episode again, look at this.
• 28:44
  Look at this. Dragged out of the TARDIS by the
• 28:47
  gold. I think the bit later on where
• 28:49
  she's screaming. No, no, it's forcing her out of
• 28:53
  this artist is and very this that brilliant reaction as well
• 28:58
  from Vicki, where where Barber is talking about it and Vicki
• 29:00
  just loves because it's so weird and so, but that's such a real
• 29:06
  reaction because, you don't know how to react to something like
• 29:09
  that. Actually, do you know what they
• 29:11
  do here? They do something so good, and
• 29:14
  it doesn't happen often with Vicki but they actually give her
• 29:16
  some backstory. Don't May where she talks about
• 29:20
  was it? I have to go to school.
• 29:22
  Almost an hour a week, you know that he studied medicine at
• 29:25
  10:00. Yeah.
• 29:29
  And I think it's great. And what is it?
• 29:30
  She says about the the aspirin you would like if I was going to
• 29:34
  shove leeches on you, it's great.
• 29:40
  There we go. Well, the categories and the bit
• 29:44
  about Vicki's description of a school is really nice because
• 29:46
  it's the whole, oh, I studied medicine at 10:00.
• 29:48
  And I was taught by machines for, for an hour a week.
• 29:52
  But actually, I would have really liked to have come to do
• 29:54
  to your school and Reading Writing arithmetic.
• 30:00
  Dr. Exton yes. Yeah, there she is laughing.
• 30:05
  Yeah which was like a very natural reaction, doesn't it?
• 30:08
  When you're told something that something absurd, How do you
• 30:12
  know there's a sequence in a minute, right?
• 30:14
  Where the dog sounion stand in front of what is that?
• 30:18
  Great big pyramid to put. It is just a great big pyramid
• 30:24
  is me as they got a name is like flies or something like that.
• 30:28
  It's called. Well, there's the Temple of
• 30:30
  Light temples of light that come along later, get here where they
• 30:33
  and they literally put the pair of them in front of like how on
• 30:37
  Earth do they achieve that? I'm not entirely sure sorry.
• 30:46
  I'm looking at it now that's it. That's a superimposition, isn't
• 30:49
  it? Because so you record it once
• 30:52
  and then you record again and it's why they're there a little
• 30:56
  bit see-through. All right.
• 31:00
  Oh yeah, that would work. Wouldn't it?
• 31:03
  Well, whatever I think it looks visually stunning, you know, for
• 31:06
  the time and don't you just love as well with the we were talking
• 31:12
  about this when we did the Aztecs sigh you know with
• 31:15
  Incredible depth and integrity that we did that.
• 31:17
  Yes. Yeah it's other Simon.
• 31:22
  We ended up calling it. The Mexico people from Peru
• 31:24
  because we had no facts about it whatsoever.
• 31:28
  We got everything wrong Wrong. I do love the depth of the back,
• 31:32
  the back cloths give. And I mean, look at you are
• 31:35
  planets there. You've got cracks in the
• 31:37
  background Stars. Yeah, it works.
• 31:41
  Doesn't it? I think so.
• 31:42
  Yeah. Oh, and I like those.
• 31:49
  Is it a lot of Planet backgrounds?
• 31:50
  You can see whether the floor meets the walls and as
• 31:55
  brilliant. As the first episode of the Mind
• 31:57
  robber is you can you can clearly see whether the edge of
• 32:02
  that the floor on the walls are none of that here, you can.
• 32:05
  Now on the new cleaned up DVD version back with the old fuzzy
• 32:08
  VHS days, I think that that but white void in the mind robber.
• 32:14
  Looks like strawberry now is one of those poor examples of
• 32:18
  Washing it up actually. Diminishes the atmosphere.
• 32:22
  Yeah, I wonder where with the set designs here, whatever,
• 32:24
  because you've got all these Rocky Crags that that sort of
• 32:28
  distracts you from where the Gap in the between the, the
• 32:33
  Cyclorama and the edge of the set would be.
• 32:37
  So it's sort of disguised a bit more heavily than it would be
• 32:40
  normally. And that's that's yeah, that's
• 32:43
  good design. That's brilliant.
• 32:45
  I used to dislike the use of the Vaseline over the lens used to
• 32:49
  really irritate me. I quite like it.
• 32:50
  Now I think it's nice and weird, you know.
• 32:57
  Yeah. It's like the echo are actually
• 33:00
  sound as well. It just all adds to the slightly
• 33:03
  Alien app and weird atmosphere and I know they did.
• 33:08
  The music here is start, is stop music to save a bit of money.
• 33:14
  But actually it works really really well using Galaxy 4.
• 33:21
  Yes, I think it is. It's all like violence, isn't
• 33:26
  it? It's always, it's really less
• 33:28
  structure. Some or we were a French group
• 33:32
  who made music by doing the sort of like they had.
• 33:37
  Great big glass instruments like wine glasses with water in that
• 33:41
  you would put your finger around the rim and make noise from.
• 33:46
  So Verity Lambert wanted them to do the the free music originally
• 33:52
  but they couldn't it would Been too expensive and difficult to
• 33:56
  do. Wow, very differently when they
• 34:01
  are very very differently. There we go.
• 34:06
  What was the female companions? Always grab their heads into
• 34:10
  stress. Although I suppose there's a lot
• 34:11
  of noise going on right now, isn't there?
• 34:17
  And the console spinning. Yeah that's weird.
• 34:20
  And you can see I like a power cord going into it as well.
• 34:29
  Yes, I would and they are durable, space.
• 34:32
  Yeah, when I And and there's kind of fun as well.
• 34:37
  You can kind of spot all the things that were in the
• 34:39
  background. I believe I can see an astral
• 34:41
  map. You know, first appearance of
• 34:43
  the astral map. That might be important later
• 34:48
  on, you never know. You think this is super creepy.
• 34:51
  Something is forced the doors open and is forcing her out like
• 34:55
  out of safety. Yeah, there's so much going on.
• 34:59
  This is why I don't think they needed to have the Tsar be as
• 35:03
  another element of it until right at the end.
• 35:06
  No. Because I haven't actually added
• 35:08
  anything to this. This episode really at all, they
• 35:11
  haven't done very much other than chirrup law noisily.
• 35:16
  Well, there's the one that played peekaboo and threw a rock
• 35:18
  in the pool, that's right. Yeah.
• 35:20
  It's hiding away bar in the world.
• 35:25
  Remember what the Cliffhanger is?
• 35:26
  Oh, I ship my daughter. So it's a first doctor story
• 35:35
  where they're cut off on the Tardis.
• 35:36
  Well, that's original the lid. Now, split your class Tim free
• 35:42
  so that they could go off and do different bits of the plot.
• 35:47
  Which is ready goods and capital back of the Rovers, which I
• 35:52
  think Ashley did that expertly, how gave all three characters
• 35:57
  plot thread, which meant the story moved in a very Pacey way.
• 36:01
  Now, I think this story moves in a slightly less Pacey way.
• 36:04
  Yeah, well, Ian is pretty much Sidelines for the whole of this.
• 36:09
  It's much more Barbara's story. Yes, she gets all the heroic B,
• 36:14
  doesn't she? Yeah.
• 36:15
  And it's Barbara Bain. An action hero, which is
• 36:18
  fantastic. That's what you want.
• 36:21
  That's what everyone wants. She Witnesses the monoxide in
• 36:24
  his wings pulled off, doesn't she?
• 36:25
  It's all reaction. Yeah.
• 36:28
  Remember, that seem really well. And you've got your building up
• 36:33
  to a beautiful free prong Cliffhanger or for prompt
• 36:38
  because Ian is trapped. Barbara is about to plunge into
• 36:42
  the acid pool Vicki. Stuck in the Tardis that is
• 36:46
  going wrong, and now, the Tardis has disappeared.
• 36:50
  Well, you can't be a woman close up and William hartnell's face.
• 36:53
  Oh, how many Dost thou mean? Literally fills the screen, but
• 36:58
  his performance, fills the screen.
• 37:00
  Yeah. I sure actually that they even
• 37:02
  called The Next Episode, the zombie.
• 37:05
  If it looks like it's custom-built, bring them in
• 37:08
  here. Gosh.
• 37:10
  That was, that is a fantastic first up is, and yeah, and that
• 37:15
  was the highest rated episode for a very, very, very long
• 37:19
  time. Until when is that until so you
• 37:22
  don't fill possibly, I can't remember one of the Hinchcliffe
• 37:27
  episodes beats it or not but that was over 13 million.
• 37:31
  People watch that episode. So, there's a lot of publicity
• 37:35
  around the Tsar be. So they got a comic strip in TV
• 37:40
  comic at the same time as they were on TV, so they were really
• 37:44
  being pushed as the next big thing.
• 37:46
  So yeah, it obviously worked to get the audience in and
• 37:52
  realistically. What are they had before the the
• 37:55
  sensor writes the board. Yeah.
• 37:58
  This is this is their chance to really push the boat out with a
• 38:02
  science fiction. Story probably for the first
• 38:03
  time since Since the Daleks. Yeah.
• 38:09
  Okay Liam cookie Lyon looks brilliant but he's a single
• 38:14
  person. Yeah don't you mean cocky
• 38:17
  licking? Sorry if you prefer.
• 38:21
  Thank you.