Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Green Beret hero kills Taliban bomb-maker, now charged with murder

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Green Beret hero kills Taliban bomb-maker, now charged with murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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1:41
Speaker 1: willing crime stories with Nancy Grace. Put us in your shoes,
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Speaker 1: the shoes of your husband who's been going through since
1:55
Speaker 1: he was he was awarded the Silver Store nominated for
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Speaker 1: the Distinguished Service Cross, which just below the Medal of
2:01
Speaker 1: Honor for heroic actions on the battlefield. He wanted to
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Speaker 1: bring his men home. What has he been through since?
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Speaker 1: This situation is extremely challenging for our family. You know,
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Speaker 1: Matt has a twelve year old son, we have a
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Speaker 1: brand new baby, and he is once again, you know,
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Speaker 1: he was lucky enough to survive war and has come
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Speaker 1: home to be ripped apart by his own government and
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Speaker 1: the army leadership. So it is extremely disappointing and absolutely
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Speaker 1: reprehensible what they have done to him, and for them
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Speaker 1: to charge him with premeditated murder, it's almost laughable, and
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Speaker 1: it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and disgusting.
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Speaker 1: You are hearing Julie, the wife of former Green Beret
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Speaker 1: Major Matthew Goldstein, and I am so mad, I could
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Speaker 1: chew a nail in half. Maybe I don't understand facts,
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Speaker 1: but from what I do understand. A Green Beret Major
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Speaker 1: Matthew Goldstein now facing charges he killed a Taliban bomb maker. Well,
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Speaker 1: I thought you got medals for that. I mean, see, Grace,
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Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: I just don't understand exactly what's happening here. A Green
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Speaker 1: Beret kills a Taliban bomb maker who is dedicated to
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Speaker 1: destroying our country, destroying our families, our way of life,
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Speaker 1: our religion, our faith, and Major Matt Goldstein kills him.
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Speaker 1: It's war. Do I like it? No? But do I
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Speaker 1: want my country, my home, my family, my church to
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Speaker 1: be bombed by the Taliban? No? I don't. And now
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Speaker 1: he Major Matt Goldstein is facing murder charges. Joining me
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Speaker 1: in addition to former prosecutor and now Atlanta criminal defense
4:22
Speaker 1: attorney Holly Hughes, doctor, Brian Russell, psychologist, lawyer, host of
4:26
Speaker 1: investigation Discoveries, hit series Fatal Vows, Cop turn Pi, Vincent Hill,
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Speaker 1: author of Playbook to a Murder, Alan Duke, and Jackie
4:36
Speaker 1: Howard joining me in the studios. A special guest is
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Speaker 1: joining us right now. A former US Air Force JAG
4:43
Speaker 1: officer who did a stint at the Pentagon. California lawyer
4:50
Speaker 1: Andrew Sharkasky Andrew at you were a prosecutor as well,
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Speaker 1: and I'm don't know what you think about this. I
5:00
Speaker 1: haven't asked you yet. What do you think? The rules
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Speaker 1: of engagement to are tricky and the fog of war
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Speaker 1: is real. But no matter what the circumstances, a summary
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Speaker 1: execution is never lawful. And the facts that are out
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Speaker 1: there right now make this look like it may have
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Speaker 1: been a summary execution. Okay, Ah, I don't like anything
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Speaker 1: you just said, so let me just take it apart
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Speaker 1: bit by bit. First of all, I don't really understand
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Speaker 1: what you said, because in my world, I prosecute murders,
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Speaker 1: rate childless station, child abuse, arson and I evaluate every
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Speaker 1: case and determine what's true what's not. Who said that
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Speaker 1: this was a summary execution? And what do you mean
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Speaker 1: by summary execution? I mean, did he sneak up on
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Speaker 1: the Taliban bomb maker and shoot him in the head?
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Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that what we want Greberet to do?
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Speaker 1: The facts that we have right now, and this is
5:52
Speaker 1: based on the interview that he provided in two thousand
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Speaker 1: and sixteen, in large part, but also in other interviews
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Speaker 1: and documents that are public today, is that two days
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Speaker 1: before the murder or the killing excuse me, of this Afghani,
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Speaker 1: there was an explosion that killed two marines tragically. Over
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Speaker 1: the next two days there was continued firefights and efforts
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Speaker 1: to try to find who was part of al Kada
6:18
Speaker 1: and who had done the terrible act. Well, they captured
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Speaker 1: apparently this al Qaeda suspected bomb maker, and they held
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Speaker 1: him well during the time that he was a detainee.
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Speaker 1: He was ordered to be released by higher command. And
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Speaker 1: it was after the fact that he was released or
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Speaker 1: shortened time to the time period that he was released,
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Speaker 1: that Major Goldstein, frustrated with the fact that he couldn't
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Speaker 1: maintain the tension of him and not in a combat situation,
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Speaker 1: hunted him down and killed him. That's the fact that
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Speaker 1: appear on paper from a prosecutor's standpoint, or from prosecutors. Okay,
6:54
Speaker 1: hold on, Andrew, Now, I don't even know how many
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Speaker 1: literally thousand sins of cases I've prosecuted and many more
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Speaker 1: thousands I've investigated. Could you just you got me drinking
7:06
Speaker 1: out of a fire hydrant, here's too much at once.
7:08
Speaker 1: Could you break it down for non JAG people, which
7:14
Speaker 1: is basically military lawyers, break it down in simple terms
7:21
Speaker 1: for all of us to understand. Okay, dummy down, Andrew,
7:24
Speaker 1: dummy down. I know that's not in your what you
7:27
Speaker 1: normally do. Tell me again what the facts are as
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Speaker 1: we know them. It seems that two Marines were tragically
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Speaker 1: killed when they were going door to door doing their
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Speaker 1: efforts to fight against the insurgency. Within two days killed
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Speaker 1: out and they were entering the home or entering a building,
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Speaker 1: and a bomb went off and it killed these two individuals,
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Speaker 1: and that who made the bomb? Do we know who
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Speaker 1: made the bomb? We think, based on what Major Goldstein
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Speaker 1: tells us, we think that the person he killed made
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Speaker 1: that bomb. That's what he oh, the Taliban bomb maker. Right, Okay, Okay,
8:05
Speaker 1: let's just let me go with that, because you know
8:07
Speaker 1: where I'm going. Go ahead, I know where you're going.
8:10
Speaker 1: So time passes a day or so, and I'm not
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Speaker 1: the prosecutor on this case. I'm relying on public records
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Speaker 1: and statements that have made in the past. But a
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Speaker 1: day or so passes and they actually capture this guy.
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Speaker 1: There's a lead information that that brings us to this guy.
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Speaker 1: Major Goldstein sees the actual bomb making material that he
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Speaker 1: thinks links this guy to the bomb that killed our
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Speaker 1: two marines. He sees it where supposedly wherever they capture
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Speaker 1: this guy. Oh okay, wait, whoa whoa, whoa wait wait,
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Speaker 1: So the bomb making materials that Goldstein believes was used
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Speaker 1: to blow up to US officers is found in the
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Speaker 1: Taliban bomb maker's possession. Okay, so it's now out no longer.
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Speaker 1: Just I think he did it, he sees, according to him,
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Speaker 1: the bomb making materials. Just like with Timothy McVey, they
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Speaker 1: pull him over because of a tail loot and bow.
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Speaker 1: A lot of the bomb making materials are clues in
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Speaker 1: his car. Okay, Andrew ZIKASKI, And I'm not arguing with
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Speaker 1: you because I know you know this area of law
9:28
Speaker 1: better than me. So I accept that. Okay, go ahead,
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Speaker 1: And I don't mind defending anybody in a situation like this.
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Speaker 1: I'm just talking about the facts that seemed to be
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Speaker 1: out there right now. And it even seems that Major
9:40
Speaker 1: Goldstein had such a good relationship with locals that they
9:44
Speaker 1: may have given him some clues on this as well.
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Speaker 1: Some corroboration that the Taliban bomb maker was responsible for
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Speaker 1: blowing to US officers to tiny bits. Take a listen
9:57
Speaker 1: to Major Goldstein's father. It's been extremely difficult, Brian. You
10:02
Speaker 1: take a look at what has taken place over the
10:04
Speaker 1: past ten years, and to come to this state after
10:09
Speaker 1: they've already had a boarding and everything else and found
10:13
Speaker 1: not guilty, to bring it up again is a very
10:17
Speaker 1: difficult challenge to undertake. What is your son's story, Well,
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Speaker 1: my son is a young man of character. He was
10:26
Speaker 1: a graduate of West Point. It was a very trying
10:31
Speaker 1: time for us as parents when your children go to
10:34
Speaker 1: be in the military and spend all that time and
10:38
Speaker 1: training in the military to do proper service, and all
10:43
Speaker 1: the time we sit and wait back at home waiting
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Speaker 1: to hear a phone call or something like that something
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Speaker 1: may have happened to do what he has done over
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Speaker 1: these past ten years and his time in the military.
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Speaker 1: We never did get that phone call. We are very
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Speaker 1: blessed for that he's come back in one piece, and
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Speaker 1: now to be going through this a second time when
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Speaker 1: he's being threatened to be charged with murder and possible
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Speaker 1: execution by our government, it's really hard to understand. Special
11:18
Speaker 1: guests joining me along with Vincent Hill, doctor Bryan Russell,
11:21
Speaker 1: and Holly Hughes. Andrew Turkasky, California lawyer, former US Air
11:26
Speaker 1: Force jag Andrew, could you break it down, tell me
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Speaker 1: again what the facts are as we know them. So
11:34
Speaker 1: they capture them, and they're holding him, and they want
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Speaker 1: to keep him. But the rules of engagement, the laws
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Speaker 1: of armed conflict at the time said that without sufficient
11:48
Speaker 1: evidence kind of what we know is probable cause you
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Speaker 1: weren't to keep someone for more than twenty four hours.
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Speaker 1: Twenty four hours he had reported this up to his
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Speaker 1: chain of well, he said, the rules of engagement at
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Speaker 1: the time, are those still the rules of engagement? The
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Speaker 1: engagement constantly changed, so to say that. So, No, the
12:10
Speaker 1: rules of engagement change from combat to combat, from month
12:14
Speaker 1: to month, from year to year, and it can even
12:17
Speaker 1: be three different ones applied at the same time from
12:19
Speaker 1: different commands. So the rules of engagement can be a
12:22
Speaker 1: very complicated set of rules to get through. But there
12:27
Speaker 1: are certain things that are very clear. Well, let me
12:29
Speaker 1: ask you a question. I don't know really how to
12:31
Speaker 1: address you, sir. Is that appropriate with me as California
12:37
Speaker 1: lawyer or in former US Air Force JAG officer Andrew Hurkaski.
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Speaker 1: Now you say, at the time the bomb makeup could
12:45
Speaker 1: be held for twenty four hours. Well, is there a
12:49
Speaker 1: different scenario where they could have held him for let's
12:52
Speaker 1: just say, seventy two hours or six months or however
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Speaker 1: long it took. Oh. Absolutely, I mean people are setting
12:58
Speaker 1: get mo for a lot time, so they can't put
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Speaker 1: together a case in twenty four hours, so they let
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Speaker 1: him walk. Well, it's not that simple. It's that a
13:08
Speaker 1: captain sitting in the Hellman Province of Afghanistan doesn't get
13:12
Speaker 1: to make the call about how long someone gets to
13:15
Speaker 1: be held for. So he's got to report that up
13:17
Speaker 1: his chain of command to his higher command, justify whatever
13:22
Speaker 1: request he has to hold on to someone, and he
13:24
Speaker 1: gets proved for Take a listen to this. The US
13:27
Speaker 1: Army has charged with alleged murder a once decorated Green
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Speaker 1: Beret who received a Silver Star for valor in Afghanistan,
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Speaker 1: but later admitted to killing a detainee during an interview
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Speaker 1: with Fox News as Brett Bear in October twenty sixteen,
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Speaker 1: did you kill the Talvan bombmaker? Yes. Major Matthew Goldstein
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Speaker 1: was a US Special Forces soldier attached to a Marine
13:51
Speaker 1: unit that faced heavy fighting in the Battle for Marja
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Speaker 1: in February twenty and ten. He later acknowledged during a
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Speaker 1: polygraph when applying for a job at the CIA that
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Speaker 1: he had killed an alleged Taliban member who they suspected
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Speaker 1: of planting a bomb that killed two Marines, Sergeant Jeremy
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Speaker 1: mcquerie and Lance Corporal Larry Johnson. You willingly offered up
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Speaker 1: these details at the CIA. Right, that's Chris, and that's
14:18
Speaker 1: where it all started. Pretty much, according to a senior
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Speaker 1: Defense official, Goldstein told the CIA, he killed the Afghan
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Speaker 1: off base, placed his body into a pit, and burned it.
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Speaker 1: But reached by telephone, Goldstein told Fox News, quote, I
14:32
Speaker 1: made a lawful engagement of a known enemy combatant on
14:35
Speaker 1: the battlefield. You are hearing Fox reporter Jennifer Griffith reporting
14:40
Speaker 1: on what Goldstein says took place. Special guests joining me
14:44
Speaker 1: along with Vincent he Old, doctor Bryan Russell, and Holly Hughes.
14:48
Speaker 1: Andrew Turkasky, California lawyer, a former US Air Force jag Andrew,
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Speaker 1: I just I'm a little concerned about hiding the body
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Speaker 1: into pit and burying it, because if it was a
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Speaker 1: lawful engagement, why would you hide it. On the other hand,
15:07
Speaker 1: it's a Taliban bombmaker, and not only that, isn't it true?
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Speaker 1: There's already been a full and complete hearing. He was
15:16
Speaker 1: brought to what's called a board of inquiry, which is
15:19
Speaker 1: a decision by a board of three officers as to
15:22
Speaker 1: whether he should continue serving, kind of like an employment case.
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Speaker 1: He was found to be not responsible for one violation,
15:32
Speaker 1: but found to be responsible for another, and was decided
15:37
Speaker 1: to be kicked out of the army with a less
15:39
Speaker 1: than honorable discharge. What was he found responsible for. He
15:43
Speaker 1: was found responsible for a violation of what we call
15:46
Speaker 1: conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. So that is
15:50
Speaker 1: a very vague type of allegation, but it can cover
15:54
Speaker 1: any sort of conduct from hold on, hold on trying
15:57
Speaker 1: to take notes and I don't want to argue with
16:00
Speaker 1: you because I accept that you know more about this
16:03
Speaker 1: area of law than I do. So he was after
16:07
Speaker 1: a full hearing. It was determined not that he committed
16:11
Speaker 1: a murder, but that he committed conduct unbecoming to an officer.
16:18
Speaker 1: Not quite. The question of whether there was murder or
16:21
Speaker 1: not was not a question before this Board of inquiry.
16:24
Speaker 1: It was a question of a violation of the law
16:27
Speaker 1: of armed conflict and a question of conduct unbecoming an officer.
16:33
Speaker 1: It's not a trial. It's most similar to a human
16:37
Speaker 1: resources type of hearing that somebody might get, you know,
16:41
Speaker 1: to Hollyh's former prosecutor now criminal defense lawyer. Every other
16:47
Speaker 1: day I see and hear about and read about people
16:53
Speaker 1: in the military at the Pentagon in high positions overseas, partying,
17:00
Speaker 1: bringing in hookers, getting drunk, blah blah blah, having lovers,
17:08
Speaker 1: passing on state secrets to lovers, and nothing happens. Nothing,
17:13
Speaker 1: they get embarrassed and they may move their post. Here.
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Speaker 1: You got a guy that kills the Taliban bab maker,
17:19
Speaker 1: and he's being tried for murder. I'm having a hard time,
17:24
Speaker 1: you know, making sense of that. I understand completely, Nancy.
17:29
Speaker 1: I've been a prosecutor and a defense attorney, and I
17:32
Speaker 1: absolutely can see both sides of this story. But I
17:35
Speaker 1: think what we need to remember is war is different.
17:39
Speaker 1: This isn't a man walking down the street in you know,
17:43
Speaker 1: Atlanta where you and I live, who just pulls out
17:46
Speaker 1: a gun and shoot someone because he wants to take
17:48
Speaker 1: their purse. This is someone who we trained to kill.
17:54
Speaker 1: This is someone who we sent into battle for this
17:58
Speaker 1: very purpose, to defeat the enemy. And as horrible as
18:02
Speaker 1: the taking of life is, that's what we did with him.
18:07
Speaker 1: He did his job. So after his defense attorney, I
18:10
Speaker 1: would be saying, how dare you you trained him for
18:14
Speaker 1: this very thing. This is a man who he took out,
18:18
Speaker 1: someone responsible for the killing of two young marines, young
18:22
Speaker 1: men who volunteered, who signed up, who said I will
18:26
Speaker 1: go and I will serve. And God bless every veteran
18:30
Speaker 1: male and female out there who does it, who picks
18:32
Speaker 1: up a gun and lays down their life for our country.
18:35
Speaker 1: These two young men were blown to bits. And what
18:39
Speaker 1: Major Goldstein did was war. Sadly, like you, I don't
18:46
Speaker 1: like it, but that's what we sent him there to do.
18:50
Speaker 1: Now I can put on my prosecutor's hat and say,
18:53
Speaker 1: what about due process? What about you know, holding him
18:57
Speaker 1: setting after this? I didn't know that you process that
19:01
Speaker 1: is written in the US Constitution hundreds of years ago
19:06
Speaker 1: by our founding fathers, had any bearing on war action, bombs, shooting, defending.
19:18
Speaker 1: You know, I want to remind everybody about two young
19:23
Speaker 1: men one twenty seven, one just nineteen years old. Lance
19:29
Speaker 1: Corporal Larry M. Johnson just nineteen. That's just eight years
19:34
Speaker 1: older than my baby John David and my baby girl
19:38
Speaker 1: Lucy nineteen dead. Sergeant Jeremy are mcquerie just twenty seven,
19:48
Speaker 1: both of them blown into bits at a bizarre in
19:54
Speaker 1: southern Afghanistan. Think about it, your baby blown to bits
20:03
Speaker 1: at a bizarre not in the middle of combat action,
20:06
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I know him, and to think that he
21:41
Speaker 1: killed someone in hold blood, which is another phrase that
21:44
Speaker 1: we've heard tossed around, is absolutely I don't even have
21:50
Speaker 1: a word for it. It is just so disgustingly we
21:54
Speaker 1: have had. You know, this is extremely challenging and it
21:57
Speaker 1: is rage inducing, but it is also very humbling to
22:01
Speaker 1: feel the love and support from all over this country,
22:04
Speaker 1: from the people who support him and know him and
22:05
Speaker 1: who have served with him. And I want to thank
22:09
Speaker 1: the families of Jeremy and Larry, who are the two
22:11
Speaker 1: Marines who did not come home, because I am lucky
22:15
Speaker 1: enough to have my husband and I will have my husband,
22:19
Speaker 1: and they are not home with their families, their wives,
22:23
Speaker 1: their girlfriends, their moms, their sisters. A Green Beret Major
22:30
Speaker 1: Matthew Goldsta now facing charges he killed a Tali band
22:35
Speaker 1: bomb maker. I mean, see, Grace, this is Crime Stories.
22:39
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us Special Guests, joining me
22:42
Speaker 1: along with Vincent Hill, doctor Bryan Russell, and Holly Hughes,
22:45
Speaker 1: Andrew Turkasky, California lawyer former US Air Force JAG Major
22:51
Speaker 1: Matthew Goldsta, now facing charges he killed a Taliband bomb maker,
22:57
Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, former cop turn PI Army counter intelligence specialist.
23:02
Speaker 1: Way you in, Vincent, Yeah, Nancy, I'm just befuddled by
23:05
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Like like you said, I mean, at
23:07
Speaker 1: the end of the day, this was a bomber. If
23:10
Speaker 1: you think back to nineteen ninety eight, there was a
23:12
Speaker 1: guy with the last name been Laden. May he rot
23:14
Speaker 1: in hell, But since we didn't, a lot of people
23:17
Speaker 1: died since we didn't stop him back in ninety eight.
23:20
Speaker 1: So I don't want to say something that may come
23:23
Speaker 1: back to get me in trouble later, Nancy. But you know,
23:26
Speaker 1: you know what what I can't say that, you know what,
23:30
Speaker 1: I'll just say it myself. I don't want this guy prosecuted.
23:33
Speaker 1: I think it's wrong. I think it's wrong that we
23:35
Speaker 1: ask them to protect us and he kills a Taliband
23:40
Speaker 1: bomb maker because he sees the bomb equipment that locals
23:45
Speaker 1: tell him that was the bomb maker. There's enough to
23:49
Speaker 1: hold him in detention. As the bomb maker that took
23:52
Speaker 1: us lives, so he killed him to doctor Brian Russell, psychologist, lawyer,
23:57
Speaker 1: host of investigation Discoveries, hit series, FA vows, Okay, doctor Brian,
24:02
Speaker 1: hit me, tell me how wrong I am. I'm braced.
24:05
Speaker 1: I'm actually glad that we're talking about this, because this
24:07
Speaker 1: is a good context for people listening to learn something
24:11
Speaker 1: that they can use when they go to the ballot
24:13
Speaker 1: box in the next presidential election. There are some administrations
24:18
Speaker 1: who believe that the military is really just sort of
24:22
Speaker 1: a law enforcement agency, and that when we catch a
24:26
Speaker 1: person on the battlefield who has killed a couple of
24:29
Speaker 1: our guys, that person is more like a criminal defendant
24:32
Speaker 1: who's entitled to the kinds of rights that we afford
24:34
Speaker 1: to criminal defendants. Here. That's how the Obama administration treated
24:38
Speaker 1: this stuff. Basically, during the Obama years, the administration would
24:43
Speaker 1: rather err on the side of letting this guy go,
24:46
Speaker 1: letting him kill a couple more of our guys, or
24:48
Speaker 1: maybe a bunch more of our guys, than having the
24:51
Speaker 1: New York Times write an article about how we were
24:53
Speaker 1: being too mean to our detainees and holding him too
24:55
Speaker 1: long without enough due process. And then you have administrations
24:59
Speaker 1: like the one we have now that understand that the
25:01
Speaker 1: purpose of the military is to kill people and break
25:04
Speaker 1: stuff when they're threatening United States interests someplace in the world.
25:09
Speaker 1: And if I'm President Trump, I'm pardoning this guy. And
25:13
Speaker 1: I think that that's what President Trump will do because
25:15
Speaker 1: it's absolutely as we jump in right there. Because to me,
25:19
Speaker 1: murderer is not about Obama, Barack Obama or Donald Trump.
25:23
Speaker 1: It is not about politics. I don't care who's sitting
25:25
Speaker 1: in the White House. I find problems with every politician
25:28
Speaker 1: that makes it that far. Everybody complains about Trump, maybe
25:32
Speaker 1: they're right. Well, everybody complain about Hillary, maybe they're right,
25:34
Speaker 1: They're probably all right. I mean, if you make it
25:37
Speaker 1: that foreign politics, you know there's something way wrong with you. Okay.
25:41
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that this has anything to do
25:44
Speaker 1: with Barack Obama or Trump, because I don't believe anything
25:48
Speaker 1: any of them say. But I know this. My dad
25:52
Speaker 1: was a veteran that gave up a basketball scholarship and
25:55
Speaker 1: went halfway around the world, first time away from his
25:58
Speaker 1: mommy ever, to fight for our country. He never did
26:02
Speaker 1: finish college because it was all thrown derailed. And I
26:08
Speaker 1: don't want to see a veteran like this guy, Major
26:11
Speaker 1: Matt Goldstein prosecuted. Now, I want to go back to
26:15
Speaker 1: Andrew Cherkaski, who I must say, knows a lot more
26:19
Speaker 1: about this scenario than I do, and that pains me
26:23
Speaker 1: to say that, but it's true. Another thing that I
26:26
Speaker 1: do know, Andrew, is that parents of Marines all across
26:30
Speaker 1: the country are supporting Major Matt Goldstein. And if they're
26:35
Speaker 1: supporting him, why shouldn't we Well, I don't think that
26:40
Speaker 1: that's something that I can answer why we should or shouldn't.
26:43
Speaker 1: What I what I'm saying is that from a independent perspective,
26:46
Speaker 1: and I'm a defense attorney now, I defend military members
26:49
Speaker 1: every day. That's that's all I do, and that's what
26:50
Speaker 1: my law firm is sent. Well, give me your best defense, Andrew,
26:54
Speaker 1: give me your best The best defense is that it
26:56
Speaker 1: was the fog of war at the time, and that
26:58
Speaker 1: Major Goldstein at the time, I really believe that this
27:01
Speaker 1: person presented an imminent threaten and needed to execute the
27:05
Speaker 1: mission in order to proceed. The facts don't support that
27:09
Speaker 1: as they are right now, but that's the best defense
27:11
Speaker 1: if that can be made. Listen, A senior US defense
27:14
Speaker 1: official confirmed to Fox News. The Army's Criminal Investigation Command
27:18
Speaker 1: reopened the investigation based on new evidence that includes the
27:21
Speaker 1: green Berets public statements. The Defense Department's Inspector General investigated
27:26
Speaker 1: the army's original handling of the case, which found not
27:29
Speaker 1: enough evidence to prosecute Goldstein. After a six day hearing,
27:33
Speaker 1: California Congressman Duncan Hunter, a former Marine who served in Iraq,
27:37
Speaker 1: has champion Goldstein's case. He wrote the following letter to
27:41
Speaker 1: Army Chief General Mark Milly quote, Goldstein is an American hero,
27:45
Speaker 1: a true warrior. In fact, why the Army has hell
27:47
Speaker 1: bent on destroying a combat hero's career is truly astonishing.
27:51
Speaker 1: I'm confident that Army CID has more important things to
27:55
Speaker 1: do than investigate Goldstein again. And you both have the
27:58
Speaker 1: ability to fix this stupidity. What is it like going
28:02
Speaker 1: from war hero to accused war criminal? Are you angry? No,
28:11
Speaker 1: it has been incredibly painful and very difficult over the
28:17
Speaker 1: last year. Of these years, everyone who served with me
28:21
Speaker 1: stood by me, and so kind of it's over and yeah,
28:26
Speaker 1: a lot of times move on. Sources tell me that
28:29
Speaker 1: when Goldstein admitted killing a man in cold blood on television,
28:33
Speaker 1: the Army investigators had no choice but to reopen the case.
28:36
Speaker 1: Major Goldstein claims that strict rules of engagement forced him
28:40
Speaker 1: to release the alleged Taliban bombmaker, who had been fingered
28:43
Speaker 1: by an Afghan informant, and that he had no choice
28:45
Speaker 1: to act as he did. But those to whom I've
28:48
Speaker 1: spoken here at the Pentagon say he did have a choice.
28:50
Speaker 1: And now Major Matthew Goldstein has been charged with premeditated
28:54
Speaker 1: murder and could face the death penalty. You are hearing
28:57
Speaker 1: reporter Jennifer Griffith. Take a listen to what Major Goldstein's
29:01
Speaker 1: wife Julie says. You know, my message is that Matt
29:04
Speaker 1: was cleared of wrongdoing in two thousand and fifteen. We
29:07
Speaker 1: have moved on with our lives. We have moved we
29:10
Speaker 1: have had a new baby. We have moved on. We
29:13
Speaker 1: are waiting for someone to do the right thing. It
29:16
Speaker 1: is time for someone in army leadership to crawl out
29:19
Speaker 1: from the blanket of anonymity under which they hide and
29:22
Speaker 1: take responsibility for this and step in and do the
29:25
Speaker 1: right thing. Did you find the suspected Taliban bombmaker? We
29:30
Speaker 1: did capture a fighter and then id material weapons. We
29:35
Speaker 1: recovered radios, a small ecome is the Taliman we're using,
29:40
Speaker 1: so quite a bit of material. But at the time
29:43
Speaker 1: you think this is the guy. Yeah. Absolutely. After he
29:46
Speaker 1: was detained, the suspected bombmaker refused to speak to investigators
29:50
Speaker 1: because of strict rules of engagement, they were ordered to
29:54
Speaker 1: release him. You can strew it as a law enforcement mindset.
29:57
Speaker 1: There's limits on how long you can hold guys. So
30:00
Speaker 1: we would pull these guys out. We'd say, clearly, these
30:02
Speaker 1: are enemy combatants, these are Taliban, these are bad dudes.
30:06
Speaker 1: We'd pull him out, but we wouldn't have any place
30:08
Speaker 1: to hold him, so eventually we'd let him back and
30:10
Speaker 1: they would cause terror to the community again. Right. In fact,
30:14
Speaker 1: you just really you realize quickly you make things worse.
30:17
Speaker 1: It is an inevitable outcome that people who are cooperating
30:21
Speaker 1: with coalition enforcements, when identified, will suffer some terrible torture
30:27
Speaker 1: or be killing. Shortly after releasing the Taliban detainee, Goldstein
30:31
Speaker 1: took matters into his own hands. Did you kill the
30:35
Speaker 1: Taliban bombmaker? Yes, you are hearing from our friends Brett
30:40
Speaker 1: Beyer at Fox News on a show entitled How We
30:44
Speaker 1: Fight Matthew Goldstein, Major Matthew Golstein explaining the circumstances leading
30:48
Speaker 1: up to him killing a Taliban bombmaker, beginning with the
30:52
Speaker 1: capture of the bomb maker. Now, this is one thing
30:55
Speaker 1: we haven't touched on. Joining me in addition to Vincent Hill,
30:58
Speaker 1: doctor Brian Russell, and Holly Hughes Alan do you can
31:01
Speaker 1: Jackie Howard special guest California lawyer former Air Force JAG
31:06
Speaker 1: officer Andrew Cherkaski is that if he is convicted, Major
31:11
Speaker 1: Matt Goldstein can get the death penalty. He could die
31:15
Speaker 1: for killing an enemy combatant. Well, it hasn't been decided
31:20
Speaker 1: that it would be a capital case, but absolutely if
31:22
Speaker 1: he if he had a premeditated murder, he faces life
31:27
Speaker 1: in prison. At least. Let me ask you this, who
31:31
Speaker 1: is going to be his jury? Well, the jury would
31:33
Speaker 1: be other officers who are senior and ranked to him.
31:37
Speaker 1: So these are all very experienced, high ranking individuals who
31:41
Speaker 1: have the experience of what war looks like, what battle
31:45
Speaker 1: looks like. And it would be similar to the civilian process,
31:49
Speaker 1: but generally higher educated and higher ranking than you would
31:53
Speaker 1: typically see in a civilian jury. Well, let me understand this.
31:56
Speaker 1: So he's being charged with murder in military court, not
32:00
Speaker 1: our court. That's right. Military courtmercial is very similar to
32:05
Speaker 1: a federal criminal trial, but there are uniquenesses. Take a
32:08
Speaker 1: listen to feel Stackhouse Gholsting civilian lawyer. His patrol that
32:13
Speaker 1: was approximately a fifty man plus patrol was under attack
32:16
Speaker 1: by a superior enemy force and Matt engaged the enemy
32:21
Speaker 1: directly in indirect fire, calling in air support, deploying gustav
32:27
Speaker 1: Recoruless rifle rockets at the enemy. It was a heroic
32:32
Speaker 1: battle and Matt was recognized for that, and it has
32:35
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to do with the allegations that have been
32:38
Speaker 1: made against him. Yet the Army, with no due process
32:41
Speaker 1: rights afforded to Matt, rescinded the Distinguished Service Cross that
32:45
Speaker 1: the Secretary of the Army had actually signed, and then
32:48
Speaker 1: revoked a silver Star medal. Again, it had nothing to
32:50
Speaker 1: do with the allegations that are facing him today. In
32:53
Speaker 1: Matt's particular case, there were three different sets of rules
32:57
Speaker 1: that he was following, I SAT rules, US Forces Afghanistan
33:01
Speaker 1: rules and Special Operations Task Force rules, so he had
33:05
Speaker 1: three different masters that he was serving at the time.
33:08
Speaker 1: He wasn't allowed to keep people detained for more than
33:10
Speaker 1: twenty four hours. And another very important piece for the
33:14
Speaker 1: public to understand, as with this investigation started by the
33:18
Speaker 1: Criminal Investigation Division of the Army, a narrative was put
33:22
Speaker 1: out in the very early stages that Matt released this
33:25
Speaker 1: Taliban bombmaker walked him back to the house that he
33:28
Speaker 1: was operating on and assassinated him in his house, and
33:32
Speaker 1: that was never said, and the Army repeated that narrative
33:36
Speaker 1: consistently through that investigation until Matt's administrative hearing, when they
33:41
Speaker 1: had a CID agent, a Criminal Investigation Division agent on
33:44
Speaker 1: the witness stand under oath and admitted that that was
33:46
Speaker 1: a lie in the investigation and they never corrected it.
33:50
Speaker 1: The prosecutor in this case is intimated to me that
33:54
Speaker 1: they have new evidence. But this allegation happened in twenty ten,
33:58
Speaker 1: in February of twenty ten. The Army became aware of
34:02
Speaker 1: it in twenty eleven, and it's been investigated the entire time.
34:05
Speaker 1: What new evidence could there possibly be from twenty ten,
34:09
Speaker 1: and that's the question that they'll have to answer. You know,
34:11
Speaker 1: parents Marines all across the country are outraged and dumbfounded
34:15
Speaker 1: that a man who avenged Marines killings killing a Taliban
34:20
Speaker 1: bombmaker is now being tried for murder. Now, David Kleinschmidt,
34:25
Speaker 1: the stepfather of one of the two young men blown
34:28
Speaker 1: up at an Afghan bazaar, Sergeant Jeremy RT. Mcquery, thinks
34:35
Speaker 1: it's crazy that a decorated Green Berets Special Forces Commando
34:40
Speaker 1: Major Matthew Goldstein could actually face the death penalty. Listen
34:45
Speaker 1: to Goldstein in his original interview. Years later, he started
34:49
Speaker 1: talking about his attack on the bombmaker in a job
34:52
Speaker 1: interview with the CIA. You willingly offered up Dales right
34:57
Speaker 1: at the CIA. Right, that's Chris, and that's where it
35:00
Speaker 1: all started. Pretty much. Goldstein, who had received a Silver
35:05
Speaker 1: Star for valorie in Afghanistan, now found himself accused of
35:09
Speaker 1: murder and conspiracy. What followed was the Army's version of
35:14
Speaker 1: a thorough police investigation. I told the Army CID investigator,
35:20
Speaker 1: I don't know anything, I don't remember anything. I never
35:25
Speaker 1: to be grudged investigators or even my commanders for doing
35:31
Speaker 1: an investigation. If they're concerned about my judgment or my behavior,
35:35
Speaker 1: then then I would expect that they would look into it. Ultimately,
35:39
Speaker 1: after a review by a military tribunal, no charges were filed,
35:43
Speaker 1: but Goldstein was removed from the Special Forces, his silver
35:47
Speaker 1: Star was taken away, and he was denied a position
35:51
Speaker 1: at the CIA. What is it like going from war
35:54
Speaker 1: hero to accused war criminal? Am angry? No, it has
36:01
Speaker 1: been incredibly painful and very difficult over the last years.
36:06
Speaker 1: Everyone who served with me stood by me, and so
36:12
Speaker 1: it's over and yeah, a lot of times move on. Well,
36:14
Speaker 1: I'm just I hear what you're saying, Andrew Zikaski, and
36:17
Speaker 1: I appreciate it them actually not arguing with you, because
36:20
Speaker 1: I accept you know more in this field than I do.
36:22
Speaker 1: But you know, when something, as I always say, when
36:25
Speaker 1: something doesn't feel right, it's not right. To doctor Brian Russell,
36:30
Speaker 1: you hear the parents of these two slay marines, these
36:34
Speaker 1: two really boys once in nineteen ones twenty seven, just
36:38
Speaker 1: in shock that Goldstein's being prosecuted. How are the families
36:43
Speaker 1: of marines supposed to take this? Well, it's like you
36:45
Speaker 1: just said, something feels wrong about this, and I'll tell
36:48
Speaker 1: you what it is. What's wrong is to send young
36:52
Speaker 1: Americans into combat and then tie their hands such that
36:57
Speaker 1: they have to watch the enemy who just killed a
37:00
Speaker 1: couple of their friends walk away to do it again.
37:03
Speaker 1: It's the same thing. This is very reminiscent of Ignacio Ramos,
37:07
Speaker 1: remember him. He was the border patrol agent that we
37:09
Speaker 1: prosecuted and sentenced to eleven years in prison for having
37:14
Speaker 1: shot a drug smuggler on our border in the butt
37:17
Speaker 1: back in the early two thousands. And President Bush ended
37:21
Speaker 1: up commuting his sentence, just like Trump needs to pardon
37:25
Speaker 1: this guy because the wrong here was on the part
37:28
Speaker 1: of the administration, not on the part of Goldstein. Well,
37:31
Speaker 1: according to Durkasky, this was a premeditated murder. I disagree,
37:38
Speaker 1: Alan Day. Let me ask you a question, my buddy
37:40
Speaker 1: joining me from California, why did you join the military.
37:44
Speaker 1: When I was about nine or ten years old, the
37:46
Speaker 1: Vietnam War was going on, and there was the song
37:49
Speaker 1: that I think it was on the Ed Sullivan Show
37:50
Speaker 1: that I saw. It was the Ballad of the Green
37:53
Speaker 1: Beret Barry Saddler, and I got goosebumps. I'm getting them
37:56
Speaker 1: right now thinking about put silver wings on my son's Yes,
38:00
Speaker 1: just like your dad. My dad served in World War Two,
38:03
Speaker 1: and you know, despite Vietnam and everything, I was really
38:06
Speaker 1: interested in that having those silver wings. So I turned
38:10
Speaker 1: eighteen that week I was at the recruiter's office, joined
38:13
Speaker 1: the US Army and eventually went to airborne school and
38:15
Speaker 1: got those jump wings, the silver wings on my chest.
38:18
Speaker 1: Let's go out with this, Souls from the sky. Farless
38:24
Speaker 1: men who jump and dine, men who mean just what
38:31
Speaker 1: they say. Good brave men of the Green, Blue Rain.
38:37
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crime story, signing harding goodbye friends on the