Latest / AccessCo Leaders Career Conversations / Failure, Rejection & Resilience
Transcript
- speaker-0: Welcome everyone. Today's conversation, maybe the most important one we'll have all summer. Students often see successful people at the end of their story. They see the titles, the promotions, the company, and the accomplishments. What they don't see are the setbacks, the projection letters, the failed interviews, the moments of doubt. Today we're pulling back the curtain and talking honestly about failure. Rejection, resilience, and what it really takes to keep moving forward. We have two amazing guests today. We have Kristina Katiyama from Be Possible and Darren Franklin from DG Franklin Consulting. Welcome, guys. Awesome, speaker-2: Thank you. Thank you for having us. speaker-0: awesome. All right. Well, Kristina, can you tell us what you do today? And what do you what are you most passionate about in your work? speaker-3: So I'm the founder and lead consultant of Be Possible, and we are a collaborative network of professionals that do whole systems change work with organizations. And the thing that I'm most passionate about is actually the the impact that we have on the well-being of an organization and the people that are part of it so that they can come from their best selves and thrive, even in challenging conditions. speaker-0: We love that. Well, thank you for sharing and explaining exactly what you guys do there at Be Possible. And over to you, Dr. Franklin. what are you doing today? I know you've got your hands in a bunch of different things. And can you share with us one challenge you've overcome that helped shape the person you are today? speaker-2: that's good, Ilyne. Thank you. Yes, speaker-0: I got you. speaker-2: you do. so DG Franklin Consulting. I help businesses strategize through what we call unexpected events. And that's a part of resilience, right? Things pop up. You have to figure out how to respond to it in the immediate and then also in the long term. And then hopefully wrap. And incorporate those lessons into your operations going forward. So that's what I do. I am a former federal civil servant for about 33 years. I worked at Peace Corps, the Peace Corps, and I was in charge of recruiting and placing volunteers across the world. And I've worked in the homelessness policy, et cetera, et cetera. So that's me now, speaker-0: What's one challenge you've overcome that helped shape the person you are today? speaker-2: that's good. So I've written about this publicly. And if you know you are interested in hearing a more exhaustive version of the story, you can look me up on Substack, LinkedIn, et cetera, et cetera. But I was in college and I was a young man navigating the world, and I found myself, that's kind of passive, but I became a father. So that's more active because I was an active participant in that happening. Right. And so I became a dad at twenty, going on twenty-one. And so for me, my family where I come from, you have to go to work when you have children. So I had to leave college, go to work. eventually I returned to college and completed my undergrad and then my master's and then my doctorate in business administration. but that's a big challenge that I had. and it's a challenge that even as As recently as yesterday, I was talking to my 22-year-old son about, and that's resilience. speaker-1: Yeah speaker-2: Going, you know, ex really experiencing a challenging environment, a roadblock or whatever, and figuring out a way to navigate it successfully in a way that propels you positively towards how you were originally designed to show up in the world. speaker-0: That's amazing. And I've read a lot of your work and we know each other personally. So even though, you know, we define that as a setback, where you are today is exactly where you're supposed to be. And I love that that's always the theme that you have and you know the exact timing that you were supposed to be there. Dr. Franklin, of course. So that was a great setup for us having a conversation around looking back. So Kristina, can you tell us a little bit about You know, thinking back to when you were eighteen, this is a mo the most of our our listeners are of that, you know, that young adult age. what did success look like to you back then when you were eighteen? speaker-3: Well, when I was 18, I chose to become an exchange student. And that experience actually also changed my life. because what it exposed me to is very different ideas as to what success could look like. it really Was the beginning of really opening up my eyes and widening my experience to so many possibilities that I hadn't even considered before. And when I experienced them, they were like in my body. It wasn't just a good idea. It was something that I had actually experienced. and so when I think about success kind of a core thing that showed up at that time was a sense of well-being. I had experienced a tremendous amount of stress as a teen, for all kinds of reasons. And getting into a different situation where there was such a contrast and my nervous system could calm down a little bit. It took several months to do that, but just to calm down and it allowed me to see, feel, and hear differently, and access myself more. And I think that became the core of speaker-0: What success is. That's amazing. I love that you bring up how success can be defined within your home and your family. And Darren kind of brought that up. but then also in your experience, it wasn't just in your home, in your city, in your state, and in the country. You traveled. So you got to see the different definitions of what success looks like in different cultures. What about you, Darren? What was your Dr. Franklin? What was your definition of success at 18? speaker-1: wha- speaker-2: that that's a really that's another really good question. So I grew up in an interesting household. My pastor my parents were pastors. And so way back when you didn't really have celebrity pastors. You had pastors who actually had their pastorship, but also they had to work. Because the congregation couldn't afford to support them in an extravagant way. And so my idea of success at 18 was not living in the environment that I grew up in. So basically, you know, not having all of the Like things that I saw on TV, you know, when I was growing up, MTV videos was becoming popular, like, you know, celebrities were becoming more pronounced in society, sharing their stories. And so for me, it's like, I'm here and this is how we have to live. But I see all these people doing this thing, these things, and I want to go over there. I want to have a pool inside of my home. Right. I wanna to want to travel the world, do all of these things. And so for me, at eighteen, not having experienced the world, I saw success as having money and having things. That's what I saw success as. speaker-0: So yeah. You know, I think that's a a common definition or illustration of what success looks like when you haven't experienced life, right? Like it's it's the things, it's what you see. For us, it was that generation of seeing what was on TV TV. Now it's a social media, right? Like what do we quickly see? And, you know, we we speak with the younger students and You know, some have actually said they want to be YouTube stars. They wanna, you know, that wasn't even a thing for us. It wasn't like to be an influencer was not part of a, you know, the conversation conversation. That said, with what you saw as successful, either you, Kristina, or Dr or Dr. Franklin, did did you believe success successful people failed, or did you assume that they simply got everything right from what you saw? speaker-2: Yeah, that's a good question. I'll jump in, Kristina. if that's cool with you. I saw success as people doing everything right because I grew up in a society where there was a black or white, there was no gray, right? There was no resilience and learning from failure and all of these things. It's either you were you were bad or you were good, right? And that's the r kind of religious way that I grew up. And so my thing was, if you were successful, obviously you had everything right. You did everything by the book. And we can have a whole other conversation about w who wrote the book, how the book became to be known as this is what you do to be successful in this country and beyond. but that yeah, that's that's how I saw it. speaker-0: Right. Right. Well, Kristina, I'm gonna shift a little bit. I'm still related to this, but I wanna know a little bit more about your story. I know that Dr. Franklin shared one of his setbacks, but let's start with your story. Tell us about a setback that changed your life. And at the time did it feel like everything was falling apart? speaker-3: So I would say there were many moments that challenged my worldviews, many moments that challenged my sense of myself or my identity. and one of I'll say I there was a time and I'm thinking about high school, it was about tenth grade, and I was in a lot of conflict with my dad. And one of the things that he he ha he he was a s like had a very scientific mind and you either could prove it and the w everything was very factual and right and anything that had to do with emotion or feeling or was just worthless nonsense. speaker-0: Right. speaker-3: And at that time in my life, there was a lot of feelings, big feelings, you know. And and I remember choosing to do things, one of the things that was again, it was about tenth grade when I would really mess up or something went really wrong or that that I didn't intend it. I started asking myself one question, and it was the same question every time. And that one question really helped me a lot. And that question was, where's the gift? Or what's the gift in this? And I believed that I would find the answer to that question, even if I didn't have a sense of it at the moment, if I just had patience and stuck with it. I would get more information and I could get to the other side and go, that's why that needed to happen. speaker-0: It's incredible, Kristina, to have discovered that at you said 10th grade, yeah. That level of wisdom. and I know in that age, like you are you take that rejection and you don't know what to do with it, right? So often our students here know, and whatever that looks like in a relationship or an application, whatever that looks like that rejection. And often they think it means they're not good enough. what's bring what's one rejection you'll never forget? Let's hop over to you, Dr. Franklin. speaker-2: so many speaker-0: Rejections. And as you think about those rejections, Dr Dr. Franklin, think about how did you respond to those rejections? And did that rejection eventually lead to something better? Mm, next level. speaker-2: Yeah, so I will say just recently I am coming off of a three decade federal sector career. I left last last summer, and I have been kind of dumped into the job market in the DC, Maryland, and Virginia area. We call the DMB. Which is oversaturated with folks like me and other folks who were connected to the federal government infrastructure. and so I have gone up for I've I have not applied for a lot of jobs. I've been very select selective about who I want to work for in this next leg of my career journey. And what I would be doing and how it would affect my life holistically. My work life well, you know, there is no work life balance, but my personal life, my, you know, other things that I'm interested in, et cetera. and I have actually, you know, been in the last leg of many, I would say at least three or four jobs that I really, really wanted that I put hours and hours of prepping to prepping the application materials, but also prepping for the interviews and getting to the last leg and being told, hey, no, we decided to go with someone else. And so that's cute. And then you know it's it's nice when you, you know, and it's at least good to hear from some organizations because some don't even follow up. But for the person who's done all of that work and who had these expectations, but also historically hasn't had an expectation of getting what they strived to get, right? It's a it's a disappointment. And so I would say just most recently that's something that I had to deal with. And what I had to do was realize that, well, it's not me, it's not a it's not personal, right? Right. Right. And there's not there's nothing wrong per se with me. There may be a lesson in here. And I'm fine with learning the lesson, right? That resilience thing again, right? Let me adapt and do better the next time. But character-wise and who I am or what I bring to the table, there's nothing wrong with me. It's just these extraneous factors that are factoring into the decision, right? So basically the biggest lesson I would say in summary is not to take things personally sometimes. speaker-0: That's so good. You know, it ties back to what Kristina said is what is the gift in that moment of feeling of rejection. And sometimes people can feel like it's a failure, right? Like you've applied for three or four jobs. You got this far and you didn't get it. so going back to Kristina, what's something you've tried that simply just didn't work? And how did that experience shape the leader the leader you are today? speaker-3: following on what you were saying there, Dr. Franklin, that I think is really important. And you can you can compare it to so many different things, whether it's applying for a job or you know you're working on a project that you're that you're putting forward and it doesn't it doesn't land, it doesn't get approved, it doesn't continue. you could look at it dating, whatever it is, right? It's like marketing and sales, however it is. And the thing that I've learned that is so important is actually taking the time to get clear myself about what matters to me and what is mine to contribute and what I'm like reaching for, like wanting to learn now or next, and put it out there as clearly and as authentically as I can, knowing that I'm going to get many no's, many no's as I'm, you know, putting the antenna out there, saying, I'm going to put myself out there so the one that is looking for me can recognize and find me. speaker-0: So good. speaker-3: And so letting the nose go, right? And like like you were saying, not not taking it personally. So something that I tried, and this was based on what I had learned, right? So this was going into an engagement. I was invited by this was for a nonprofit organization. I was invited by the president of the board and had worked a great deal with him to kind of define the work that that they were wanting to do. And I reached out Repeatedly to the executive director of this organization because I understand you know those two roles are really important and work tightly together. and I wasn't getting a response, and I went forward anyway. And that was a really big mistake. because when we worked together with the board and the management of this organization. And the executive director wasn't on board because we hadn't had that contact before, it just failed massively. and so what I learned from that is actually how critical it is if I'm not getting the information or contact beforehand to not just move forward with. you know, to really continue to inv invite the the conversation and the voices that are that need to be at the table to shape what it is that we're doing. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. That's good. That's good. I think you're also kind of touching on assessing the situation, that not every situation is going to be exactly the same. And so we're talking about how you build confidence after setbacks. So Dr. Franklin, I'd love to hear from you. you know, especially just in your recent examples of applying and getting so far, but have you ever felt like you just wanted to quit? And what what keeps you moving? That's that's leading us up into more of the concentrated discussion on resilience. speaker-2: Yeah, so I would say absolutely I felt like I wanted to quit several things, right? You have your professional life, you have a personal life, things come up, we're challenged all the time. you know, I'm a spiritual person and part of my foundation is Christianity, right? And so from what I've been taught growing up up until now, Is that you know in this life you will have trouble? It's just given, right? And this is a conversation I had with my wife the other day. It's like you have to bake you have to bake in cushion, you have to bake in space for challenges. Whatever you undertake, bake in some expectation that there are gonna be some challenges. That way you're not surprised when they happen and you have the capacity to actually respond to them. speaker-0: what kept you moving in those moments that you felt like you wanted to quit? speaker-2: Well, what kept me moving was that I expected some things to happen, right? This this past Saturday had a major birthday party for my wife, and I invited all of her friends, my friends that I had before we met, her friends be she had before we met, the friends that we have actually created together, and then the friends that we brought into our unions. together that became our friends. we have friends from all over the country. I planned this month's in advance. I don't like doing things at the last minute. I hate rushing because I feel like if you're rushing or you're doing stuff at the last minute, you're actually creating anxiety that's unnecessary. And so but as much as I plan stuff happened. I ran out of time. And have time to do everything perfectly like I liked, et cetera, et cetera. I have to send people. And so for me, you know, really facing those types of things is being able to pivot and to accept the fact that things are gonna happen, bake in the expectation. I had this conversation with my son yesterday about something that he was going through. And it's like, son, you have to bake in cushion. speaker-1: Love that. speaker-0: Bake in cushions, actually kind of making me a little hungry now, but I think throughout my life and in my experience in the military, we used to say manage your expectations, right? So part of managing expectations is as you say, to bake in those cushions. Kristina, in your experience, and I know in in your consulting work, can have you been able to answer, can resilience be learned? Have you seen this happen? You know. speaker-3: Absolutely. So resilience comes from being in relationship with, starting with being in relationship with myself and then being in relationship with what's happening in this moment. When I'm present, I have access to choice. And when I am not present, I am in automatic or reaction. And so I I think another piece about resilience is, you know, based on the question I was asking before, what's the gift in this? Is that was inviting me to look for learning. That was inviting me to look for what I appreciate. So even if this thing didn't work very well, there's still so much more in my life that I can appreciate. There are moments when it has gotten so simple, like everything just felt hard, but just simple as a fresh, clean glass of water, fresh clean air to breathe, a safe place to rest. It can be really, really simple that way. I'm thinking right now, so there's lots of fires happening around me. and People in nearby cities, like tens of thousands of people are being evacuated. The outside my windows are very smoky, you know, and so This is the moment when I say, I'm so glad I appreciate fresh, clean air, and here's the contrast to remind me why that's important, right? so the other piece that calls me forth for resilience is what is mine to give, right? And that that's when I'm coming from a place of service. It's not it's what is it that I have, whether it's this moment or this. clean water, whatever that I that I have that I can give, right? And that also helps me understand that my contribution matters, no matter how simple or small it is. And then the last thing I would say is connecting with every day in some way, something that allows me to enjoy my life. Right. It could be something as simple as moving my body or listening to music or singing a song. and that those little things really to to fill my cup with joy so that I have that to offer. speaker-0: That's so good, Kristina. I appreciate you even sharing with our listeners very practical ways that resilience can be learned and and those habits, right? You've you mentioned earlier that question about what's the gift in this situation and then also being in that moment and seeing all of those all the things and what's the opposite of that. So that's such a good good way to help you grow that resilience. but I want to go back to To Darren, because you did mention you spent thirty three years, over thirty years in public service with the government. has failure made you a better leader, do you think, looking back at your time in the government? speaker-2: Yeah. So from a kind of scholarly vantage point or theoretical vantage point, there is a whole body of research that's focused on what's called failure learning. Right. Technology companies use it all the time. They probably don't even know they're using it, right? You put out a project or a product, you know, you get user reviews. What you do is you incorporate those learnings into the next iteration of the version of that product. So the 2.0 version. And so for me, you know, one of the core tenets that's a part of resilience is, you know, really learning and adapting based on what you've learned from. what's happened in your life and I hope that answers your question. speaker-0: It does, it does. And I love that you you how you shared that this is an actual academic thing that's happening, right? Failed, speaker-2: Yeah, that's a body. speaker-0: it doesn't work. You're gonna figure out something else. so let's let's shift over a little bit to advice for our students. Many so speaking of failure, many students are afraid to fail. Like I I feel like it's not just the students. I feel like adults and parents, we don't want to fail, right? What would you say to someone who's avoiding opportunities because they're afraid of making a mistake? speaker-3: Making mistakes is part of the game, really. I can just give an example of so I've also been through a series of interviews really recently, in order to gain more opportunities for work. And every time I put myself out there, that gives me another opportunity to practice. It gives me another opportunity to fine-tune my game. And it is the failure that lets me recognize or realize what it is that I need to do now. And every single time I do that, when I show up to the next one, I'm that much more prepared. I'm that much more ready to shine. And that's part of my humanity. And when I can accept that, make grace for that. it invites the humanity in the other person as well. speaker-0: That's good. Make space for that. Bake in that cushion, right? As Darren would say. Dr. Franklin, how do you know when to keep pushing and when it's time to change direction? speaker-2: that man, you are firing off such good questions, Ilyne. I appreciate it. I would say I know that personally, if something is not within my value system, right? So first of all, if it's not within my value system, I probably I'm not gonna do it, but sometimes you don't know things until you get into the mix, right? Just like when you're hiring folks, you don't really know how a person is going to perform. You do your due diligence, but you don't know what you don't know until they start doing the work. And so sometimes you enter things and they may seem they may look one way, but then when you get into the nitty-gritty of the work, you know, the institution, you know, the studies or whatever. you found out find out, this is really isn't really aligned with my values. And so for me, my framework for those types of things is is this aligned with my personal values? The caveat with that is that you have actually have to spend time mapping out what your personal values are. speaker-0: Yeah. You so you have to you have to come in with that with that map. speaker-2: Who you are. speaker-0: And yeah, manage those expectations. what's one failure every young profession? While we're we're speaking of mapping that out, Darren, and then I'd also love to hear from Kristina on this question. What's one failure every young professional should experience? speaker-2: You know, I think we all so our we all have our character, right? But then there's this whole other set of tools that are needed in the workplace, right? You have your soft skills, you have your hard skills, right? And so I would say, you know, going into you know, the workplace with a level of humility, right? I know what I know. I've You know, if you've gone to college, we're talking mostly to college folks who are going to college. I have my degree, I've done the work, and also I'm open to learning what I need to learn to do this job well. Right. Two or more things can be true at the same time. Yes, I'm smart, yes, I'm talented, and also I'm a novice at this, right? And I need to be open and have the humility to learn this new sector, this new culture, et cetera, et cetera. speaker-0: That's good. Yeah. I mean, now you're you're opening up my eyes to should. I mean, again, every situation, every, every person and every professional has their own experience. But I I'd love to hear from Kristina. what's a what's a failure you think that pref young professionals should or might experience? speaker-3: I I actually really appreciate what Dr. Franklin just shared, which is being able to hold two things at the same time. One is what is it that I bring? And two is humility, learning, curiosity questions. So I remember really early on in my career, I was hired into a a fairly large company into their learning and development department. And and one of the ways that I had gotten there was not because I had had any experience in that field before, but because I was so curious and interested in that field that I went out and I interviewed lots of people, like informational interviews and I interviewed lots of people that had been working in that field before. And so I performed really well in the the interview because I was drawing on the experience that I had learned through those interviews, even though none of that was on my resume. Right. And none of that was something that I could speak to from my own direct experience. And the hiring manager was like, Wow, you really understand this industry. I don't believe you haven't done this before. And so then I showed up on the first day and I was like, Whoa, what do I do now? And I was very lucky because it was a team of people, and I introduced myself and asked questions. of the people that were on the team so that I could understand what were the resources that were available to me. How did they approach these different projects? So I just became a sponge and a learner in that situation and simultaneously leaning into what I understood about what created learning experiences for me. and Because I had been a student and that was actually, you know, and what was really effective. and I became very good at in in that position, balancing those two things. speaker-0: That's so good. You both shared so many great examples in your personal and professional experience on how failure is often part of the path, right? But it's not proof that you're on the wrong that you're on the wrong one, that you're going the wrong direction. We've talked about resilience and how figuring out when is it the time to push through and really tap in. I love again how both of you were like, it's internal, right? So We this isn't the conversation. This wasn't the episode that we're talking about finding that mentor or, you know, what is the right decision? It's really about yourself and how much grit you have to push through, which is funny because grit has come up in a bunch of the other conversations. So thank you guys for spending the time to focus on that. But before we wrap up, we like doing this thing at the end of our episodes where we are gonna do some rapid fire, this or that kind of questions. so buckle up, Kristina and Dr. Franklin. Are you ready for? Rapid fire. We're gonna go quick. Okay. So either of you can jump in. or regret. speaker-2: Failure. Failure for me. speaker-0: Failure. All right. Kristina. speaker-3: Both are effective in getting me to pay attention. speaker-0: Both. Okay. Comfort or growth? speaker-3: Growth. speaker-0: Nice. All right. That was that was that was rapid. All right. let's see. Second chances? Yes or no? speaker-2: Absolutely. speaker-0: Yes, I love it. Best is best is best lesson learned the hard way. speaker-3: Most of the time. speaker-2: Yeah, unfortunately, yes. speaker-0: So it's an unfortunate yes. All right. final rapid fire question. Here we go. One word that describes resilience. speaker-1: Nap the belly. speaker-0: Okay, wait, Kristina, what was your word? speaker-3: Joy. speaker-0: Joy, nice. Doctor Franklin. speaker-2: Adaptability. speaker-0: Yeah, I've heard you say that before too. Those are so good. All right. Let's finish these sentences. Failure taught me to dot dot dot. speaker-3: Failure taught me curiosity and humility. speaker-2: That's that's good. failure taught me to not see the failure as a character flaw, but a an opportunity to learn. speaker-0: Not a character flaw, the lesson learned, or it's an opportunity to learn. Love that. The best thing that ever happened to me was. speaker-3: Leaving the country and having the opportunity to live in very different situations. speaker-0: I could have guessed that, Kristina. And Dr. Franklin? speaker-2: Yeah, I would thank you, Kristina. the the so two things and I'm gonna, you know, not do what you asked me to do explicitly. So travel, expanding my world view through travel and being told no. speaker-0: Being told no. I thought you were gonna lean in more of the relationship side. that's okay. It's your answer. let's see, finish this sentence. If I hadn't failed. speaker-2: So if I had not failed would not have gotten to experience the things that I've been fortunate enough to experience in this lifetime. Relationally, professionally, educationally, the list goes on and on, speaker-0: So on brand with you, Dr. Franklin and Kristina, if I had not found speaker-3: If I hadn't failed, I wouldn't actually feel and have the resilience that I do today. speaker-0: That's good. I kind of want to sit on that for a little bit. we have a couple more of these fun questions and to finish. I never would have. speaker-3: I never would have done my business online were it not for COVID. speaker-2: Well, that's good. Thank you for that springboard, Kristina. I never would have opened a consulting business had not my federal career gone a different way than I expected. speaker-0: That's good. The timing. All right, a couple more. Students should never believe. Dot dot. speaker-3: That there's only one way. speaker-1: Mmm. Mmm. speaker-2: They should never believe that their failures or their challenges that they experience are who they are. They should be able to disaggregate themselves from, for instance, I'm a failure versus I failed at this. There is a total difference between the two of those statements. speaker-0: So good, Dr. Franklin. You're constantly separating that like behavior and the person. I love that. All right. And the final one, the comeback begins when? speaker-3: When I choose it. speaker-2: That's good. I think the comeback begins for me when I realized there was a lesson for me to learn, and I learned it, and I'm better for having learned it. So that's the comeback for me. It's like, I took a punch. You know, if you want to use a boxing analogy, I took a punch, but I didn't fall down. And I came back and won the won the round. speaker-0: Woo, came back and won the round. Dr. Franklin, what a setup. Okay. This is the final, final part of our of our our dis our conversation here. Imagine you're speaking directly to a student who was just rejected from their dream college or didn't get the internship, they didn't make the team, or feels like they're falling behind. What would you want them to hear today? speaker-3: Take the step that's right in front of you, right? One door closes, another door opens. Even if you can't see it yet, taking the one step that's in front of you will reveal it. speaker-0: Good. speaker-2: Yeah, that's good. I wanna give them a moment to process to recognize their humanity, right? They're gonna be disappointed. And so I want to give a moment to empathize with them, to acknowledge they're hurt. And then the second thing I wanna do once the time is right is to tell them all is not lost. There are over six thousand institutions in the United United States alone, right? Your life is not over. There are more programs out here, maybe some you haven't even explored, both on the domestic side, and that 6,000 institutions, over 6,000 institutions is not even accounting for international institutions, right? To your point, Kristina, earlier, there are so many international institutions that might be interested in having you, right? And so pause, process. I want to sit with you in that. I want to empathize. And then when the time is right. Like I tell people in relationships all the time, all the time when relationships fail, I'm like, you know how many people are in this world? There are eight billion people in this world. If it didn't work out well one person, there are eight billion people more. speaker-0: That's right. Say that. Dr. Franklin, Pastor Darren, you've got such a shepherd's heart. It continues to show. Thank you so much for dropping that wisdom, both Dr. Franklin and Kristina. So to our students, everyone that you admire has a story they almost didn't tell, a rejection, a mistake, a failure, a season of uncertainty. Those moments didn't disqualify them. They prepared them. Your setbacks do not define your future. Your response to them does. So keep showing up. Keep learning. Keep believing that the next opportunity may be waiting just beyond the disappointment. Thank you for joining us for the AccessCo Leaders Summer Leadership Series. We'll see you next time.