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The Top UDAAP Compliance Issues Across Published Content · COMPLY: The Marketing Compliance Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Hey there by podcast listeners and welcome to this week's episode.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: This week I sit down with two of my colleagues, Gianna Bere, our content manager, and Mike Gibney, our client solutions manager here at Perform Line.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And we discuss all things udap or unfair, deceptive, abusive acts or practices.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Jan and I first chat through her newly released report, the top UDAP compliance issues across published content, the methodology behind this report, and some of the key takeaways.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: And then I chat with Mike about Perform Lines, rule engine, rule books, and specifically those that help with udap and why it's critical to take a proactive approach to marketing compliance.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and enjoy.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Mike and Gianna, welcome to the Comply podcast.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks for
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Having us.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks much.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have you two on the podcast today.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna let them introduce themselves, but they are two heavy hitters as it comes to marketing compliance, content, um, and the technology that we build here.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: So, jta, why don't you go first, can you tell listeners who you are?
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Um, I'm Gianna Content Marketing Manager here at Perform Line and I'm responsible for all of perform lines content and strategy.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: So anything you see come from Perform Line, our blog posts, our webinars, our reports, um, I have a hand in
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: And she's not giving herself anywhere near enough credit.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Gianna is incredible, uh, with content and all things marketing compliance.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: So thank you for being here, Gianna,
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Of course,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: And Mike, who we lovingly call Gibb as well.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Welcome.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of mics in the world and certainly at Perform Line.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: So, hey everybody.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Uh, my name is Mike Gibney.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I oversee our client solutions team here at Perform Line.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Uh, so we sit on top of pre-sales client implementation and then monitoring our client health scores and their usage of our platform.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Uh, while we oversee a number of things for both internal teams and our clients, uh, the thing I'm most excited to talk about today is the creation and deployment of our Perform Line rule books across all of our clients' applications.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: And he's also not giving himself enough credit, but I will save that for the end when I ask Mike a bunch of questions about his day-to-day roles.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: So, uh, more to come, but thank you guys for the introduction.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: So for those who have not read it yet, as you can tell by the title of this podcast, this week we launched our latest report, the Top UDaB Compliance Issues Across Published Content written by none other than our own Gianna on the call today.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So this report uses data from the perform line platform to pull out top flagged and remediated UDAP compliance categories and terms, and even shows examples of these issues from marketing channels such as web and on social.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: It is incredible.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: If you can't tell, I'm gonna say that I'm gonna drop it in today's show notes for you to read if you have not had a chance yet, but highly, highly recommended.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: So Gianna, let's start with some background on the report and on udap itself.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Let's start with how's Udap is defined.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Why is it important for those listening to ensure they comply with this regulation?
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: I'll start with a quick disclaimer that I am not a UDAP expert.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: And what I know is really just what I've learned from working app perform line and saying up to date on the industry news and writing my content.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Um, but in general, UDAP is designed to protect consumers from unethical or misleading tactics that cause financial harm.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: It's a fairly broad definition and is, um, ambiguous by nature.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: So that can cover a lot of diff different practices that can harm consumers.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Um, and you'd have, compliance is important for a few reasons.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: The obvious one is that failure to comply with UDAP could lead to enforcement actions from the regulators.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: So including both heavy monetary fines and also those more structural in remedies.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Um, so things like bands on business practices, caps on size or growth, et cetera.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Um, on the flip side, complying with UDAP also helps organizations protect consumers and in turn, maintain a positive brand reputation companies hit with UDAP violations can quickly lose uh, consumer trust and get a lot of negative publicity.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: And then lastly, udap compliance.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: And this is really just compliance in general, um, but it can be a competitive advantage.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: So companies that prioritize consumer protection through udap compliance are more likely to attract and retain their customers and they can set themselves apart from competitors who don't.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: She says she's not a udap expert, but then quickly tells us all about udap and why it's important.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I think the most, maybe not the most important word you said, but I think an important word is the word broad when you speak about udap.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: So I know we're gonna dig into that a lot, um, coming up and then I know Mike's gonna help us with that as well.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: But that broad aspect of it is really where clients and, and folks that we've talked to have the most issues with it, right?
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Is that fair?
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: So can you just give a little background on the methodology of the report and how you use data from the perform line platform to get your insights?
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: So perform Line monitors thousands upon thousands of pieces of content every single day for potential compliance violations using our proprietary rule books, which Mike will talk about in a bit.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: But essentially what we did is we took all of this data and we looked at which Udap categories and terms were most commonly flagged and remediated for compliance violations.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: So what I mean by remediated is that these issues weren't just flagged by our platform.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: Um, cuz sometimes, sometimes we'll be flagged depending on how they're used and you know, in certain contexts they might not be considered udap.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Um, but if they were remediated it means they were acted on by our clients telling us that this was a true UDAP compliance violation.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: So everything in this report has been acted on and confirmed as udap.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Perfect.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: And those issues that are commonly fa and remediated, you kind of put them into these larger UDAP categories, right?
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Specific terms and phrases and then you even have examples in the report.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Um, so people can actually visually see what to kind of look for, um, when, when they're out in the wild.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: So would you mind just giving a brief overview of those larger categories and some of the terms that people can expect in each?
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: So the report outlines five different categories, so I'll start from the top.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: Um, so the first one was exaggerated claims, so terms or phrases that exaggerate the benefits of a particular product or service.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: So terms like, you know, free, no fees or a hundred percent.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: Second category is subjective language.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: So language that's really open to interpretation is really vague and ambiguous, um, or just doesn't have a clear objective meaning.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: So terms here are things like the best or affordable or lowest.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Um, you know, what's best or what's affordable is totally dependent on the consumer's unique circumstances.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: So things like this really need some substantiation behind them or something to back up what's being said cuz it's not a blanket term for all consumers.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: Third category is no barrier to entry, which is really just, um, misleading acceptance language.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: So these terms or phrases imply that there's, you know, no obstacles or requirements for consumers to obtain or get approved for a particular financial product or a service.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: So terms here include guarantee instant or like automatic approval.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Fourth category is creating a false sense of urgency, which kind of has two use cases here.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: So the first one is language that is quite literally creates a false sense of urgency or panic in potential customers that can lead to them making a decision before they've had the chance to fully consider their options.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: The other, um, circumstance is language that creates unrealistic expectations for consumers on how quickly they can get approval or access to a specific product.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: So things like immediately seconds, special offer.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Um, as we know for any financial product or service, it takes at least a couple of business days to get approved and to get access to your funds.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Um, so it's hard to promise, you know, instant access to whatever you're applying for.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: And then the last category for Udap is, um, kind of an interesting one.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: It's around the term payday.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: And in this context, uh, we've seen, you know, un unknown external third parties using brand names, logos, and information to falsely promote certain products or services as quote unquote payday loans, quick cash, instant money, so on, um, to encourage customers to apply for that loan.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: So the customer thinks that they're applying for a product from a certain company, but instead they're giving that information to a fraudulent third party that has no relation to the brand that they're actually promoting.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: So they submit this information and they kind of get stuck in these, you know, predatory payday loans and they think they're applying for a product from this big and well-known company, but that's not the case.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Um, and so that last one's kind of a little bit unique cause this type of language isn't typically coming from the organization itself.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Um, but it's definitely something that they should be aware of and be monitoring for.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Incredibly robust.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Um, I think the categories alone are so helpful just to start to put a couple tactics to Udap, right, like thinking in in those chunks at least that's helpful for me to think about.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: So as I said, I will drop the link for the report in today's show notes, hopefully Gianni's tease of all of the goodness.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Um, we'll encourage y'all to read it and like I said, real yet anonymized examples are in this report so you can share with your team, start to get an idea of kind of what, what UDAP means and how you guys can start protecting against it.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: So thank you Gianna, the report.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: The report is awesome.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So Mike, with this background on udap and these major categories that listeners can be monitoring for, I wanna switch gears.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Let's start discussing perform lines, rule books and how we've created a specific set of rules to help with this category of issues.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: So to start, would you mind giving our listeners some background on what we mean when we say perform line rule books?
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Um, so I think it's important before we even start talking about the rule books, is about the, the rule engine, how these, you know, become part of our platform that are deployed across all of our clients' applications.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Um, so the perform line rule engine at a really high level is the feature of our platform that allows our clients to monitor the presence or absence of terms and phrases at scale.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: And not even just like black and white, was it there?
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Was it not there?
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: But also is it contextually relevant?
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Was it within a certain proximity of a certain trigger term or something like that?
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: So I like to think that, you know, that's our rule engine.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: It's the mechanism by which, you know, the rule books are deployed, um, which would really make kind of like our rule books kinda like the fuel to that engine.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Um, they're all the terms and phrases that go into the rule engine that, you know, when grouped into certain categories, like a lot of the ones that Gianna just went over, allow our clients to make those observations at scale and then act on them within the UI and have some idea of, you know, what was flagged, but not only what was flagged, why it's an issue, maybe this is that urgency issue or it was promissory language or subjective language.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Um, so I guess there's a couple components to kind of go over when we're talking about our rule books.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Kind of what are they, um, how are they created, deployed, and updated as well.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Um, so these rule books and rule categories are basically groups of terms and phrases that roll up to those categories that Gianna was just talking about.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: So when we think of, you know, maybe, uh, a rule category around, you know, unfair urgency or abusive urgency tactics, these are all the terms and phrases like right now, limited time offer must act now, and all the various ways, you know, hundreds or thousands of ways that someone can say that.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: And not just like on a website, but also maybe in a call center or through like a text thread or an email where all of these things can come up.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, these rule books are created using, uh, a number of, you know, different tools, app perform line, and we certainly have a number of, you know, sources of data as well.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Um, I think the big things that we use to create rules at Perform Line, um, you know, first and foremost is all of our users at Perform Line.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Um, everybody that's in the perform line platform and uses our technology is on frontline defense every single day against, you know, potential marketers and advertisers using this kind of language.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And they have a really close ear to the emerging deceptive tactics or dark patterns that are coming out now and, uh, being used across the web or any one of the other channels that we monitor.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: So taking that feedback directly from our users, matching that with what we're hearing from the regulators and the changes that they're making to regulations, you know, sometimes could be on a daily, monthly, weekly basis whenever it comes out, um, is what we use to kind of get us pointed in the right direction.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: And then as far as like coming up with all these various, like terms and phrases that we're putting into all of our rules, um, you know, AI is a great usage of going out there and saying, you know, how can we create all these terms and phrases at scale?
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: So we're essentially saying, Hey, what could a deceptive, you know, marketer, advertiser use before they even know it themselves?
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: And it's a great usage of AI to be able to feed it, you know, tons of, of web data, um, acts and regulations and, you know, actions that were taken by folks like at the C F P B to say, what were the terms and phrases used and what else kind of sounds like that as well.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: So kind of like I said, using a combination of our, our users and, and kind of all the ears that we have out across the various industries we play in our relationships, uh, with, uh, regulators and all of, uh, you know, what they're publishing and, and we're reading and interpreting.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: And then data, um, goes into the creation of our rules as far as, you know, being deployed.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Whenever someone at Perform Line comes onto us, brand new client, um, they're given a menu of all of our rules that we've already created where they basically just go through and check them off on a large list of what they want deployed in their applications on day one and they have full access to our entire library when they log into Perform Line for the first time.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Um, and then past that, once those rules are deployed across all the accounts, you know, we're also, you know, making updates continually cuz everything is always, always changing.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Um, so we are creating new rules at Perform Line that get launched.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I think, um, one of the most notable ones that came out certainly in the last couple years, uh, was, well first our Covid rules, um, was a big rule book that we created very quickly and launched, um, you know, at its peak in like that first, you know, couple months of 2020 and all the deceptive practices around, you know, uh, loan programs from the government and people taking advantage of those.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Um, second one, you know, a great update that I think we published recently is all of the work we've done around fair lending as well.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Um, certainly it's a concern from the regulators.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Everybody knows it's a concern in their own businesses.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: So we've created rules around those are able to, to deploy them not only to our new clients coming on, but existing clients as well where they can subscribe to those rule books and have them ingested to their application.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's actually quite incredible to sit on this side of the house and watch what you guys build just to adapt to the environment that we're in, given the current moment.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Like you gave the Covid example fair lending example, but yeah, that's amazing.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: So two more things I I wanna touch on what you said, Mike, is I think it's super important that we also know when we talk about monitoring, flagging, remediating, I think it's, um, like you said, what's missing, what's, what's there, what's missing, but also proximity.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: That's very, very cool.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: But then also I think my general thought of like what you're posting internally, but also what other people are posting on your behalf or what you may not even know is being posted about you too, right?
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Like that's a huge, huge key component of, of the monitoring aspect.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to touch on that.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: And then I also just wanna touch on the AI aspect.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: We always say, um, on the marketing side of the house of, you know, built on AI and machine learning, but with a human touch.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: And I think that human touch is, is what, uh, almost like a little bit of the secret sauce, right?
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Like you can use ai, we absolutely should be using it, but also having that human element be a part of it as
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: It's, it's a great tool that allows you to act at scale and generate a lot of these big term lexicons that we have that fuel our, our rule engine.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: But we do still have those in-house experts that go in, curate that list, double check it, run it against experts that we know in the industry so that we know when we deploy it, we've used AI and have all the benefits of that, but certainly have the checks and balances in place, uh, to do it at scale with confidence.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: So given today's topic and episode, um, can you fill us in on these Rob books and what we have in place to help with Udap regulations specifically?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: So, uh, I gotta say Gianna kind of stole my thunder on this one a little bit, and she hit kind of like our biggest rule categories that we see, um, you know, roll up to udap violations that our clients are acting on, uh, right now.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Um, whether that be, you know, like that subjective or superlative language is certainly very popular.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Um, not only because, you know, it's an easy way, um, for maybe advertisers that are deep in an advertising network away from the original brand.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: They like to say things like the best and absolute guarantee and all those things, but even marketers that aren't being, you know, malicious in intent, um, can use this language all the time without even thinking about it.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: .
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: So they're common phrases that come up, not just from folks that are looking to deceive potentially, um, but just, you know, an everyday mistake that might just get overlooked, um, because, you know, works in copy really well.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Um, the big things that, you know, I'm really excited about kind of looking forward to is making improvements to our rule book and doubling down on how we monitor for dark patterns.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of folks are starting to talk about how dark patterns are certainly a thing that's been in the news and we've been talking about it for a couple of years, but I think that the regulators are starting to make a closer connection between dark patterns and UDAP violations.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Um, so dark patterns are, are an interesting use case, uh, because they don't typically like roll up to a certain subsection of some regulation, part B, chapter C, whatever it is.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Um, but they're the, you know, there they're the deceptive or abusive tactics that these, you know, bad actors are using out in the marketplace.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, one that we're certainly very familiar with is that abusive urgency tactic of getting someone that may not be ready to actually sign up for a financial product mm-hmm.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: to do it right now and kind of leading them in that way.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: But there's certainly a number of other dark patterns and, uh, you know, deceptive tactics that are emerging as well, um, which we are chasing down and building out new rules for on a daily basis.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: You know, some that are very familiar, um, you know, think of like a, a bait and switch.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Um, people don't realize that bait and switch is also very prevalent in the consumer finance industry and the language used, um, around that, um, is unique and something that we're solving for.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Um, and, you know, another popular one may be, uh, you know, analyzing the fine print on certain disclosures on the web where we talk about maybe, uh, you know, some hidden fees or, you know, other components of these lending products that are maybe just like vaguely referenced but not clearly explained with a proper disclosure.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: And then using our rules and rules engine to identify, you know, ways that, you know, that is found across the web.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Um, so there's some exciting stuff.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Um, we've certainly, you know, been working a lot towards the regulations and tying our rules back to, uh, specific components of the regulations for the last couple years, but I think we're kind of evolving to this new space of identifying dark patterns now and tying those back, which is really exciting.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Very, very cool.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: So everything that that Gianna mentioned earlier in the episode, obviously the perform line real books and platform can help monitor for we do so already, which is how she built the report itself.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Very cool though, to hear about this dark pad on Evolution mic.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I think that'll be maybe another cool piece of content in the future,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: And it certainly will be, you know, we're doing a lot of work on our end because I think that it's been clear that this is gonna be a need for all of our current clients and certainly our future ones.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: So we're getting ahead of the ball and, uh, getting ready to publish some exciting things, I think later this year.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Very cool.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're dark patterns definitely popping up more and more, um, so cannot wait.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: All right, let's wrap it up.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Mike.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Any, any last comments or kind of, um, ways to say why this is all so important to, to our listeners is bring us home
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: To give us the big why.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Um, I think that there's a lot of reasons why these rules and the way that we deploy them are very important for all of our users.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Um, but like a couple of the, the, the ones that really stand out, um, first is really speed to launch.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Imagine you're a big bank that's using technology for the first time to monitor maybe a new FinTech network, or you're monitoring your brand through, you know, a series of affiliates working from other, you know, working through other affiliates.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Um, launching a platform that can not only make all the discoveries for you, but also like how do you quantify the risk on all of those new discoveries.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Uh, building out the rules on your own, um, can be a heavy lift up front, but when you have rule books that are pre curated by a technology like us and they, we've used AI to, you know, build them out, but they've been, you know, gone over and, uh, you know, combed through by industry experts for the last 10 or 15 years, um, you can deploy those, you know, immediately with confidence that, you know, you now have a technology and a tool that's gonna go out and find these things, uh, for you.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Um, but that you've got rules that you know, are gonna deliver a quality observations that are actionable as well right out of the gate.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: So you get to, you know, turn on your new technology and see value out of it.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Um, from the very start, we see people starting to put violations that perform line found through their workflow in, you know, the first 30 to 60 days of having a kickoff call, um, which is really exciting.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Um, the second thing that I'm seeing a lot is maybe with, you know, a younger FinTech that, you know, a lot of times these new fintechs who are partnering with banks are being held to a higher level of scrutiny than previously kind of in the FinTech world where they, you know, they get a bank partner and now the bank partner is saying, well, you need to have a compliance program built out.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: And a lot of times FinTech companies don't even really have a compliance department.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: It might just be one of the hats that one person on their team is wearing.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Um, and when they get a tool like Perform Line, they can show the bank that they're, you know, taking compliance as, you know, one of their top initiatives.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Um, but our rules are play a really interesting part in that as well, in that they can give some level of guidance to these fintechs that are really just kind of wrapping their heads or their arms around, um, these regulations and everything that they're required, uh, to do by the banks.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Now, um, I always tell people that, you know, perform Line is a technology provider and we are not, you know, we know we do not provide legal advice, um, but we certainly sit on a lot of data and experience that a younger FinTech or other consumer finance company can lean on and incorporate into part of their strategy as they're developing their compliance program with technology.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Um, the last piece, and actually this is something that Gianna said earlier, is that complying with udap, um, you know, UDAP specifically is written to be broad and ambiguous so that regulators rightfully so could use it to go after all these, you know, deceptive tactics that they couldn't even come up with, you know, when it was written years ago.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Um, but complying with something so broad and ambiguous is incredibly difficult for, you know, people who use Perform Line, you know, on a day-to-day basis.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: So I think our rule books also, you know, serve the purpose of kind of demystifying regulations and articulating exactly how someone may violate them.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Um, and certainly with the reports that we have, like Gianna's been referencing during the podcast, you know, giving people an idea of what trending deceptive tactics are, rolling up to UDAP violations and just letting people have some really kind of concrete idea of how to defend themselves against these violations, um, something that's really important and value that our users get from our Rob books right out of the gate.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: So in my, put my marketing hat on, I'm just gonna sum up your your three top takeaways of immediate impact, right?
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Like, get something in, get it on, get it, monitoring, discovering, um, have that industry expertise.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned fintechs and absolutely we help with fintechs, but really we work across several consumer finance, um, buckets.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: And we have been doing so for, for a year.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: So whatever, uh, you, whatever company you work with, whatever industry you're in, we've probably worked with somebody very similar and can absolutely, can lend, absolutely lend that expertise knowledge, um, your way.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: And then also just with Udap specifically to end on a udap note.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I love that it is broad and vague so that it gives these folks a pretty wide umbrella, um, to, to catch folks.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: So don't be caught.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: And again, we're not udap or legal expert, but we sure do work with a lot of people to help them, um, understand this.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: So we can definitely lend that knowledge, our rules and guidance, um, for anybody in this, in this consumer finance space.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Anything, anything else guys?
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: No, I say just thanks for having me on.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: You know, I've been a longtime listener, first time caller, this has been a lot of fun.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Um, I really, yeah, appreciate, uh, coming onto the show and talking about our rules.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I think we're doing a lot of really exciting things over here and it's, it's fun to chat about'em with everybody.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: And I said this last time I was on the podcast, but it's really fun to kind of be on this side of our, you know, marketing things.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Usually I'm on the backend writing content and kind of producing, so it's fun to hop on here and kind of talk about what we've been doing.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: And Mike, it's been fun to chat, um, externally and kind of do, you know, we talk, we talk a lot about udap and our rule books and just how we can, um, work together on, on that content.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: So it's been fun to do this altogether.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: You guys are awesome.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And on top of the report, which again will be in today's show notes, GI has, has and is continuing to publish tons and tons of resources around V D A P.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Um, things are coming out from various regulatory bodies, but C F P B has also been publishing a lot of stuff around kind of this abusive practice and things of that nature.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: So we will continue to publish great content.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I will drop as much as I can in today's show notes.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Uh, thank you guys so much for joining.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Comply podcast.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: If udap is at the top of your priority list, we have an entire library of resources that I will drop for you in today's show notes.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: It includes a report we discussed today, an ultimate UDAP compliance checklist, and a guide on eight steps to reduce UDAP compliance violations.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: As always, for the latest content on all things marketing compliance, you can head to content dot perform line.com.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.