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UnchainedTV: Peru's Plant-Based Legal Battle · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

• 0:00
  Unchained TV free streaming network, Jane Velez Mitchell.
• 0:04
  You're about to hear a secret solution to
• 0:06
  the problems that plague our world.
• 0:08
  If you want to revolutionise your health, get
• 0:11
  truly joyful and jump to the next phase
• 0:13
  of human evolution, all it takes is one
• 0:16
  simple choice.
• 0:18
  Now here's your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.
• 0:21
  And we've got breaking news for you.
• 0:24
  A lawsuit in Peru filed by two students
• 0:28
  demanding vegan options.
• 0:31
  And this could be a precedent that could
• 0:34
  reverberate across Latin America.
• 0:37
  You know, how hard is it for schools
• 0:39
  to provide vegan options?
• 0:41
  Here are the two students who have taken
• 0:44
  a stand.
• 0:45
  One, the young woman on the left is
• 0:48
  a law student.
• 0:49
  The other is an anthropology student.
• 0:51
  They said they were asking for five months,
• 0:54
  five months begging for substantial vegan options at
• 0:58
  their school and were met with just silence
• 1:02
  or dismissal.
• 1:04
  So finally they hired an attorney and they
• 1:06
  went to court.
• 1:08
  And essentially they are making some demands.
• 1:13
  They're saying, hey, the dining hall must provide
• 1:16
  plant-based alternatives that are approved by a
• 1:18
  nutrition specialist in vegan nutrition.
• 1:21
  The students at this university must establish a
• 1:26
  registry of vegan students and veganism must be
• 1:29
  recognised as an ethical principle protected by the
• 1:33
  fundamental right to freedom of conscience.
• 1:36
  So we're very excited.
• 1:38
  We think that some of these students may
• 1:41
  actually be joining us today, but here we
• 1:44
  are with some of the principals and these
• 1:47
  are folks joining from around the world.
• 1:49
  Now I wanna start with Yennifer.
• 1:52
  Yennifer, you are a translator who has been
• 1:56
  in court.
• 1:57
  You have followed this from the beginning.
• 2:00
  Why don't you give us the basic story
• 2:03
  of what happened?
• 2:04
  There are students at this university, one of
• 2:07
  the oldest universities in Mexico, and all of
• 2:12
  a sudden they say, look, we're vegans.
• 2:14
  We wanna be able to eat food at
• 2:16
  our university and crickets.
• 2:18
  So tell us the story from the beginning,
• 2:21
  Yennifer.
• 2:23
  Oh, well, hello everyone.
• 2:26
  So this is basically really concerning for us
• 2:30
  because this university is such a big university
• 2:34
  in Peru.
• 2:36
  The San Marcos is really big, it's a
• 2:39
  public university and I felt really upset when
• 2:44
  these two students, and there's more than just
• 2:47
  two, right?
• 2:49
  And they were just being discriminated somehow because
• 2:54
  the only thing they could eat in the
• 2:58
  university was taking the, let's say, the meat
• 3:02
  out of the plate.
• 3:04
  So they must be eating rice, pasta, and
• 3:09
  that was it.
• 3:10
  And we're talking about these students are living
• 3:14
  there in the university, you know?
• 3:17
  They're studying there and most of them, they
• 3:21
  don't have a lot of money, so they
• 3:24
  totally need this nutrition food from the university
• 3:33
  and the university just don't see it, don't
• 3:36
  see a problem.
• 3:37
  They even say, this is absurd, this is
• 3:40
  totally nonsense.
• 3:42
  So I was really concerned when Alexander contacted
• 3:45
  me to be the interpreter of the hearing
• 3:48
  for this group, for Yemucus, Dr. Neil Bernard,
• 3:54
  Dr. Rowley, and Dr. Celia Shroud, I was
• 3:58
  really happy to help them because this is
• 4:02
  a big deal.
• 4:04
  If the university actually give vegan options, this
• 4:10
  is gonna be great news for the vegan
• 4:14
  society in Peru because it's gonna be a
• 4:18
  start.
• 4:19
  First, it's gonna be this public university, San
• 4:22
  Marcos, and then we can be to other
• 4:26
  universities, maybe schools, and then this is gonna
• 4:30
  be just a great deal if these two
• 4:34
  students, they are demanding the university win.
• 4:38
  Let me now go out to Alison Panjay.
• 4:43
  There's a lot of people involved in here,
• 4:45
  so thank you for your patience.
• 4:47
  Alison, what I was particularly taken by, and
• 4:51
  we invite this university on at any time,
• 4:55
  I was taken in the news reports I've
• 4:57
  read by the fact that they thought this
• 4:59
  was stupid and elitist.
• 5:03
  That's what's so bizarre to me that all
• 5:06
  of a sudden vegetables have become elitist and
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  serving people meat is considered of the earth
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  when obviously the indigenous peoples of Mexico were
• 5:19
  not eating at fast food restaurants over the
• 5:22
  course of centuries.
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  Right, as a matter of fact, Peru traditionally
• 5:27
  is a potatoes and quinoa and squash.
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  Peru is the origin of some of those
• 5:38
  foods.
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  And so in the universities, which are in
• 5:43
  the cities where things tend to move toward
• 5:45
  the modern way, the US actually introduced the
• 5:51
  modern chicken.
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  When I say modern chicken, I'm talking about
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  the type of chicken that's been genetically improved,
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  quote-unquote, to produce more meat at a
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  more rapid pace.
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  So the US introduced that type of chicken
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  like 50 years ago and that kind of
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  changed everything here in Peru.
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  It became a thing.
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  Before that meat was largely guinea pigs is
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  what people ate here.
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  And they still eat guinea pigs here, but
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  it was only on a special occasion.
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  And Monday through Friday, it would be rice,
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  excuse me, it would be beans and potatoes.
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  And that was more traditional here in Peru.
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  So that was introduced to Peru.
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  The chicken, the modern chicken was introduced by
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  Purdue here about 50 years ago.
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  And I don't know if people are aware
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  of this, but Peru is home to the
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  second largest portion of the Amazon jungle after
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  Brazil.
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  Peru has about 12% of the Amazon
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  jungle.
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  And most people are not aware of that.
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  And Peru has an area that's the size
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  of Texas.
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  And in the Amazon jungle.
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  And Peru is the source of 30%
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  of the water that flows into the Amazon
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  river across the continent and goes into the
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  Atlantic ocean.
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  So it's an important thing here to take
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  care, to halt the deforestation.
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  And that's part of the issue.
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  Yes, Jane.
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  Let me jump in.
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  I wanna understand really what the lawsuit is
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  about.
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  Now, the attorney is here, the gentleman who
• 7:53
  is joining us.
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  And we understand that Gabriela, who is one
• 7:58
  of the plaintiffs has just shown up, but
• 8:00
  she has not revealed her face.
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  Gabriela, can you put your face on camera,
• 8:05
  please?
• 8:07
  So let me ask this.
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  And getting back to the translator, what happened
• 8:17
  in the hearing?
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  I wanna go over the essential facts of
• 8:22
  this case before we get to some of
• 8:25
  the deeper issues.
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  But the basic facts of this case are
• 8:30
  that you're making some demands to provide significant
• 8:35
  plant-based alternatives, establish a registry of vegan
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  students and have veganism recognised as an ethical
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  principle protected by the fundamental right to freedom
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  of conscience.
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  Your complaint is that this university failed to
• 8:54
  offer any plant-based options in the dining
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  hall, thereby violating the right to freedom of
• 9:01
  conscience, equality and non-discrimination, personal identity, free
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  development of personality and essentially putting the health
• 9:10
  and sustenance of the students at risk.
• 9:13
  So let me ask you, how did this
• 9:17
  get to the point that there was a
• 9:19
  lawsuit?
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  I mean, the students went in there, they
• 9:22
  said, hey, we can't eat any of this
• 9:24
  stuff.
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  It's drenched in meat and dairy.
• 9:28
  We've all been there.
• 9:29
  I've worked in the corporate world where every
• 9:31
  time you wanted to have vegetables, it was
• 9:34
  with lard and I couldn't eat any of
• 9:36
  it.
• 9:36
  I've been in that situation.
• 9:38
  But you're saying the university simply laughed at
• 9:42
  this or stopped at it?
• 9:46
  Yes.
• 9:47
  I've talked with Gabriela and with Luis and
• 9:51
  they just said that the university gave them
• 9:54
  food, right?
• 9:55
  For free, free food for all the students
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  because all day they don't have this support
• 10:03
  of their, let's say their parents.
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  And I talked to them and they told
• 10:10
  me that sometimes their main lunch was rice,
• 10:16
  meat and then potatoes.
• 10:21
  And that would save a juice maybe.
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  And in order to eat, because they were
• 10:27
  hungry, they could just eat the rice and
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  the potatoes.
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  And that's so bad for their health because
• 10:35
  they live in the university.
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  They study there most of the time.
• 10:40
  So this is really a big concern.
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  So I'm pretty sure that the university, for
• 10:49
  them, when they say that that was nonsense
• 10:52
  and nonsense demand and stupid demand, they totally
• 10:56
  feel discriminated.
• 10:58
  They felt left behind.
• 11:01
  So what happened in the hearing?
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  There was a hearing and we're gonna find
• 11:06
  out about that but we've got a lot
• 11:07
  of callers.
• 11:08
  The people are really upset about this.
• 11:10
  Let's start with Paige in Los Angeles.
• 11:12
  Your question or thought for our panel, most
• 11:16
  of whom are coming from Peru.
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  So this is quite a technological miracle considering
• 11:23
  that we're getting all these people from Peru
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  to talk.
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  Hi, can you hear me?
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  Yes.
• 11:31
  Hello?
• 11:32
  Great, terrific.
• 11:33
  I think it's so essential that we're feeding
• 11:36
  the bright minds of the future now, healthy,
• 11:41
  delicious food.
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  I'm curious, does the university recognise that we
• 11:46
  are in a climate crisis and that the
• 11:48
  Amazon is being burned down for this crop
• 11:52
  for animals?
• 11:53
  Is that something that's recognised?
• 11:55
  One piece of the puzzle here, I'm curious
• 11:57
  about, and in the United States, we're also
• 12:01
  working on bringing plant-based options to universities
• 12:04
  with the plants.
• 12:05
  So this is definitely a groundbreaking win, let's
• 12:12
  say.
• 12:13
  And I'm looking forward to hearing the responses.
• 12:16
  Thank you so much for taking my call.
• 12:18
  Thank you.
• 12:18
  So Alison, let's focus in on that.
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  I mean, obviously it's not just a personal
• 12:23
  choice.
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  It's an environmental choice.
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  It's a compassionate choice.
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  But particularly when we are in the throes
• 12:30
  of a growing climate crisis that is no
• 12:33
  longer hypothetical, that is real.
• 12:35
  I mean, we see it here in Los
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  Angeles, fires, floods, all sorts of problems to
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  the point where it's hard to get insurance
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  sometimes for one's home.
• 12:44
  It's obviously even more extreme in Latin America,
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  which is a hotter climate from the get
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  -go.
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  Isn't, is there any understanding of the climate
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  aspect of this by the university?
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  I would say there's very little understanding of
• 13:03
  the climate implications of our food systems.
• 13:07
  There are several different faculties within the university.
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  There's a veterinary school.
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  There is a school, it's a branch of
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  engineering that deals with environment.
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  But the question of the implication of what
• 13:22
  we eat is not really recognised here in
• 13:25
  Peru.
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  And I think part of it is that
• 13:27
  unlike Brazil, where the primary cause of deforestation
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  is animal agriculture, here in Peru, that's not
• 13:36
  true.
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  Peru is not a large consumer or producer
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  of beef.
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  There is dairy production, but there's not the
• 13:45
  awareness here in Peru about the implications of
• 13:47
  our food systems.
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  And so, interestingly enough, this is a large
• 13:53
  university, over 40,000 students, and yes.
• 13:58
  And there doesn't seem to be an integrated
• 14:02
  awareness.
• 14:03
  There may be isolated awareness within the university,
• 14:06
  but the administration seems to be totally unaware
• 14:12
  of the environmental implications of our food systems.
• 14:16
  So sad, I mean, the New York Times
• 14:19
  reported on an Oxford University study that said
• 14:23
  that vegans are responsible for 75% less
• 14:26
  in greenhouse gases than meat eaters.
• 14:29
  Right there, that shows you the solution of
• 14:31
  the climate crisis.
• 14:33
  And to think that students at this university
• 14:35
  in Peru have to sue to get vegan
• 14:40
  options, it's really shocking.
• 14:43
  We invite the university on any time.
• 14:45
  I would love to dialogue with you.
• 14:47
  Let's go to our callers again.
• 14:49
  Tiffany in Los Angeles, your question or thought
• 14:51
  for our panel.
• 14:53
  Thank you, Jane.
• 14:55
  And this is for Gabriela and Louis.
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  I'm so impressed by both of them doing
• 15:02
  the right thing for the animals, the environment,
• 15:04
  and health.
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  What was the final straw that led you
• 15:07
  to decide to file a lawsuit?
• 15:09
  What's the story behind the lawsuit?
• 15:12
  Thank you.
• 15:13
  We do have the attorney for the two
• 15:16
  plaintiffs here.
• 15:17
  And I think we have Gabriela.
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  Let's see if she's popping up.
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  You know, she's in Peru, so it can
• 15:23
  be very difficult for folks to join.
• 15:27
  These students are not in a situation where
• 15:29
  there's excellent wifi.
• 15:31
  You can see the little circle, she's having
• 15:33
  trouble.
• 15:34
  Maybe you could answer.
• 15:35
  You can answer in Spanish, and then Yennefer
• 15:38
  can translate.
• 15:40
  Oh, here's Gabriela, hold on.
• 15:42
  Gabriela, let's get you up.
• 15:45
  All right.
• 15:46
  I'm gonna try to unmute you.
• 15:48
  Can you unmute yourself, please?
• 15:51
  Unmute yourself, Gabriela.
• 15:54
  Gabriela.
• 15:56
  Unmute yourself so we can hear you.
• 16:01
  Hello.
• 16:02
  Okay, well, there she is.
• 16:04
  There's Gabriela.
• 16:05
  And very, very...
• 16:07
  There she is.
• 16:08
  Can you unmute yourself, Gabriela?
• 16:11
  I can't unmute you.
• 16:14
  Gabriela, can you...
• 16:15
  Can you speak, Gabriela?
• 16:17
  We can't hear you because you're muted.
• 16:22
  You're here, now.
• 16:23
  Please start describing what happened, why you did
• 16:28
  this.
• 16:32
  Speak, please, Gabriela.
• 16:35
  Okay, I'm going to speak in Spanish, and
• 16:37
  Yennefer will translate.
• 16:38
  You can speak.
• 16:40
  Can you hear me?
• 16:41
  Yes.
• 16:42
  Yes.
• 16:45
  Start speaking, please, Gabriela.
• 16:51
  Okay.
• 16:52
  Well, about why I decided to make this
• 16:56
  claim, it's because the university doesn't provide food
• 16:59
  based on plants.
• 17:01
  And, well, as students, we don't have the
• 17:03
  economic and time possibilities.
• 17:07
  Yeah, because the university doesn't offer that.
• 17:10
  Even if we were, I don't know, omnivores,
• 17:12
  it's quite...
• 17:15
  Go on.
• 17:16
  Continue up, continue up.
• 17:20
  Continue.
• 17:22
  It's quite complicated because we work and study.
• 17:27
  In my case, I live alone, and I
• 17:29
  have to see how to solve my expenses
• 17:31
  and so on.
• 17:32
  And besides that, the university has a dining
• 17:35
  room.
• 17:35
  So that's why we asked the administration to
• 17:39
  provide us with an option based on plants,
• 17:41
  but they didn't answer us.
• 17:43
  Until now, they haven't answered us.
• 17:45
  And it's been about a year and a
• 17:48
  half since we got an answer.
• 17:50
  And, well, many students in San Marcos don't
• 17:52
  have the possibility, I don't know, to buy
• 17:54
  a menu every day.
• 17:56
  And that's why it's a necessity.
• 17:59
  Okay.
• 18:00
  So what I'm hearing, and you could translate
• 18:03
  further, is that it wasn't just five months,
• 18:06
  it was over a year.
• 18:08
  And she is essentially saying there's a lot
• 18:11
  of students that agree with her.
• 18:13
  It's not just her and her friend that
• 18:16
  she's speaking for a whole bunch of students.
• 18:19
  Can you elaborate on that, Allison?
• 18:22
  And obviously you're in Peru.
• 18:24
  Everybody here is talking from Peru.
• 18:26
  So thank you for giving us some of
• 18:29
  the technical issues.
• 18:30
  Go ahead.
• 18:32
  Yes.
• 18:32
  So the request was made actually last year.
• 18:37
  And so it's been a year and a
• 18:39
  half now that the request has been made.
• 18:45
  And there's been no answer, no reply, other
• 18:48
  than when the rector of the university spoke
• 18:52
  publicly and said that the request was absurd.
• 18:55
  And so taking the legal path now, being
• 19:00
  headed up by these two students, as well
• 19:04
  as Isaac Lobato, who is on screen, we
• 19:09
  are moving forward and using this avenue.
• 19:14
  And we've had the first hearing, and we're
• 19:18
  now waiting for the judge to respond based
• 19:21
  on the information that she was given, including
• 19:24
  three reports, one from Dr. Silas Rao, one
• 19:28
  from Dr. Raleigh from the Vegan Society, and
• 19:31
  one from Dr. Bernard from the PCR on
• 19:34
  the Physicians Committee for Responsible Health.
• 19:36
  And we're also working with the University of
• 19:37
  California on the issue of the use of
• 19:37
  medical medicine.
• 19:38
  So it's a case that's very well presented
• 19:42
  and supported, and we are on our way
• 19:45
  with this.
• 19:47
  Excellent.
• 19:48
  All right, well, if you're just joining us,
• 19:51
  I wanna say that we have an entire
• 19:55
  panel from Peru.
• 19:57
  This has been quite a deal to get
• 19:58
  this all together.
• 20:00
  Thanks to modern technology, we're able to talk
• 20:03
  to all of them.
• 20:05
  And you have one of the plaintiffs, one
• 20:08
  of the two plaintiffs is here, Gabriella, who
• 20:12
  just basically said they asked for a year
• 20:14
  nicely, and then when they got no response
• 20:17
  except dismissal, they finally had to file suit.
• 20:21
  And the good news here is that this
• 20:23
  is an opportunity to educate not only the
• 20:27
  students and the administration, but also possibly set
• 20:30
  a precedent that could reverberate around Latin America
• 20:34
  or even the world.
• 20:35
  Let's go to our next caller, Nilo Farr
• 20:37
  in Dallas, Texas, your question or thought for
• 20:41
  our panel.
• 20:43
  Hi.
• 20:44
  First, I signed the petition.
• 20:46
  It was very easy to do.
• 20:49
  Second, it's quite fascinating that Peru has a
• 20:52
  nascent veganism movement.
• 20:54
  It's even more fascinating that the issue has
• 20:58
  now gone to court.
• 21:00
  Question, are there any risks involved in doing
• 21:04
  vegan and environmental activism in Peru?
• 21:09
  What do you mean by risk?
• 21:11
  Are you saying you think people are going
• 21:12
  to come after them with a sledgehammer or
• 21:14
  something?
• 21:16
  Well, there's a record of environmental activists in
• 21:21
  South America being assassinated.
• 21:24
  Oh, my gosh.
• 21:25
  Geez.
• 21:26
  Well, let's go to the attorney on that.
• 21:28
  I don't know if you heard the question,
• 21:30
  but can you answer and feel free to
• 21:33
  answer in Spanish and then we'll translate.
• 21:35
  And we're going to unmute you.
• 21:37
  So unmute yourself.
• 21:39
  You have to unmute yourself.
• 21:40
  Go ahead.
• 21:42
  Thanks, Jen.
• 21:44
  It's a thankful invitation and it's an honour
• 21:47
  to be here in your programme.
• 21:50
  And thanks also for the question.
• 21:52
  I find it very important because about veganism,
• 21:58
  there is no personal or integrity or risk.
• 22:04
  However, environmental activism is at risk.
• 22:10
  And that's a very, very sad.
• 22:14
  This is a very sad situation here in
• 22:16
  Peru because overall, indigenous environmental defenders.
• 22:22
  Until this year, there has been 35 deaths,
• 22:29
  murders to indigenous defenders of their territory and
• 22:35
  their environment.
• 22:37
  And that's a very sad situation here in
• 22:43
  Peru.
• 22:43
  And the government, their mechanism to protect their
• 22:47
  life are inefficient overall.
• 22:50
  Wow.
• 22:51
  Well, that's terrifying.
• 22:53
  I want to go back to Allison and
• 22:56
  ask you your reaction to that because I
• 23:00
  frankly was unaware.
• 23:01
  He's saying a lot of environmental activists in
• 23:04
  Peru have been murdered?
• 23:05
  Yes.
• 23:06
  That's scary.
• 23:08
  Tell us.
• 23:08
  Yeah.
• 23:10
  Peru is half jungle.
• 23:11
  Half of the Peruvian territory is jungle.
• 23:14
  And that's where these deaths are occurring, where
• 23:16
  people do not speak English.
• 23:18
  They do not speak Spanish.
• 23:20
  Although some of their key leaders do speak
• 23:24
  Spanish.
• 23:25
  But in any case, they're defending their rights
• 23:30
  to their land and they get murdered because
• 23:36
  they're a nuisance to those who want to
• 23:38
  carry out other activities.
• 23:40
  So, for instance, in Peru, there's a lot
• 23:43
  of deforestation because of production of coca, which
• 23:47
  is used to make cocaine.
• 23:48
  So the coca leaf is very hard to
• 23:52
  control.
• 23:53
  Obviously, there are strong illegal forces behind it.
• 23:57
  There is some legal coca production in Peru,
• 24:00
  which is used for, I'm not sure, medicinal
• 24:04
  purposes, I believe.
• 24:05
  But the majority of it is cocaine production,
• 24:09
  which is illegal, or coca production, which is
• 24:11
  illegal.
• 24:12
  And it's causing deforestation.
• 24:14
  And so these illegal producers enter the indigenous
• 24:21
  lands in the Amazon forest.
• 24:24
  And when the indigenous people go to protect
• 24:26
  their property and their rights, they often are
• 24:30
  killed by these narco traffickers.
• 24:32
  I don't know how you say it in
• 24:33
  English, but the traffickers.
• 24:35
  Yeah.
• 24:36
  Yeah.
• 24:37
  Well, that's very sad.
• 24:38
  I certainly, certainly hope that the plaintiffs in
• 24:42
  this lawsuit, I don't think there's crossover.
• 24:47
  Demanding vegan options is not the same.
• 24:50
  But stay safe.
• 24:52
  Stay safe.
• 24:53
  It's kind of scary.
• 24:55
  I want to go back to Gabriela.
• 24:58
  And we're going to ask you to unmute.
• 25:00
  Unmute so you can talk.
• 25:08
  Quiero que hablas, Gabriela.
• 25:12
  Okay.
• 25:13
  Dime.
• 25:13
  Okay.
• 25:14
  Yes.
• 25:16
  ¿Puedes hablar más sobre la reacción en su
• 25:22
  universidad entre los estudiantes?
• 25:27
  Los estudiantes, ¿cómo piensan ellos?
• 25:34
  Okay.
• 25:36
  Bueno.
• 25:38
  Okay.
• 25:39
  Bueno.
• 25:40
  Quienes me conocen en realidad, o son cercanos
• 25:42
  a mí, me han apoyado bastante.
• 25:45
  Pero quienes no saben, digamos que de la
• 25:47
  lucha que se está siguiendo, pues se burlan
• 25:50
  o intentan minimizar nuestra lucha.
• 25:53
  Especialmente por las declaraciones que hubieron, ¿no?
• 25:56
  Sin sustento.
• 25:57
  Que solo buscaban desinformar de parte de la
• 26:00
  rectora.
• 26:02
  Bueno.
• 26:03
  Ahí justo un medio de comunicación le pidió
• 26:05
  una entrevista sobre el presupuesto de la universidad.
• 26:08
  Pero ella, para desviar el tema, mencionó nuestra
• 26:11
  demanda y la tildó de absurda.
• 26:14
  Y, bueno, que esta es una universidad del
• 26:16
  pueblo.
• 26:17
  Y la verdad es bastante indignante que minimice
• 26:20
  e instrumentalice de esa manera nuestra demanda.
• 26:24
  Especialmente porque quienes hemos demandado somos parte del
• 26:27
  pueblo del que hablan, ¿no?
• 26:32
  Entonces, algunos alumnos se empezaron a burlar por
• 26:35
  esta situación.
• 26:36
  Empezaron a mandar mis datos a un grupo
• 26:39
  de más de 400 personas para burlarse.
• 26:41
  Y por otro grupo de mi universidad, unos
• 26:44
  chicos empezaron a dirigirse a mi persona despectivamente.
• 26:48
  Me decían requítica, mantenida, parásito del estado, entre
• 26:51
  más cosas, ¿no?
• 26:53
  Luego, fuimos víctima de los comentarios malintencionados por
• 26:56
  parte de un medio, de un reportero que
• 27:00
  es bastante cuestionado en nuestro país, el cual
• 27:03
  difundió mi imagen de perfil y mi usuario
• 27:06
  de Facebook.
• 27:07
  Después de esto, me empezaron a llegar mensajes
• 27:10
  de hombres quienes criticaban mi cuerpo.
• 27:13
  Y, pues, de cierta manera me insultaron diciéndome
• 27:15
  que soy, o sea, lo mismo, ¿no?
• 27:16
  De mantener el estado y demás.
• 27:22
  Translator, I was, you know, my Spanish is
• 27:25
  not great, but my understanding, oh, and we've
• 27:27
  got Dr. Silas Frau joining.
• 27:30
  Wow, what an incredible honour.
• 27:33
  But if you could just translate what the
• 27:35
  plaintiff Gabriela said, my understanding is she said
• 27:37
  she's Yennefer, she's getting harassed, people are attacking
• 27:42
  her.
• 27:42
  There's also unspoken media.
• 27:46
  Tell us, tell us what she said in
• 27:48
  a nutshell.
• 27:48
  Oh, well, they were bullying her.
• 27:53
  But those who don't know about the struggle
• 27:56
  that was going on, the two plaintiffs make
• 28:00
  fun of trying to minimise their struggle, especially
• 28:03
  because of the un-sustainability, the statement made
• 28:07
  by the rector, right, which only sort of
• 28:11
  misinformed.
• 28:13
  A media outlet asked her to interview on
• 28:16
  the university budget, but in order to defer
• 28:19
  the subject that she mentioned are the demand
• 28:22
  and call it absurd nonsense, and that is
• 28:27
  a university of the people, but these two
• 28:30
  plaintiffs, they are part of the university.
• 28:32
  They are people.
• 28:33
  And it is outrageous for her and for
• 28:36
  Luis that the rector minimises their feelings and
• 28:42
  their demand, especially because those two demands, these
• 28:47
  two plans, they are part of the people,
• 28:49
  they are students.
• 28:51
  And, yeah, they were harassing her.
• 28:53
  They were bullying her.
• 28:54
  They were calling skinny.
• 28:57
  They were body shaming her.
• 28:59
  They were saying that she is a rat,
• 29:03
  really, really bad.
• 29:05
  Wow.
• 29:06
  Thank you.
• 29:07
  I want to bring in Dr. Rao.
• 29:09
  Thank you for joining us, Dr. Rao.
• 29:11
  Everybody else is joining us from Peru, and
• 29:14
  so this is pretty extraordinary that we even
• 29:16
  have this conversation going.
• 29:18
  But, Dr. Rao, as the founder of Climate
• 29:21
  Healers, can you tell us what the bigger
• 29:24
  significance of this entire lawsuit is?
• 29:30
  Yeah, the significance here is that these students
• 29:32
  are asking for an option that would not
• 29:37
  only, you know, address their conscientious objections to
• 29:42
  eating meat, but also give them a sustainable
• 29:45
  future.
• 29:47
  And the university, which is a place of
• 29:49
  education, which should be a place of research
• 29:52
  and new beginnings, is basically saying no.
• 29:58
  How could that, you know, I mean, to
• 30:00
  me, how could that stand?
• 30:04
  This university has no leg to stand on
• 30:06
  because they are supposed to be leading in
• 30:09
  this effort towards sustainability.
• 30:12
  And the students are basically saying, give us
• 30:15
  a future.
• 30:18
  This is why I was struck when this
• 30:20
  lawsuit came to my attention.
• 30:21
  And I told Alison I would love to
• 30:23
  help by writing a legal brief on behalf
• 30:28
  of the students.
• 30:28
  And explaining why this is such an important
• 30:34
  issue from an environmental perspective.
• 30:37
  I was really struck by how, I hate
• 30:42
  to say it, backward the university is on
• 30:46
  this issue, when I know that there are
• 30:48
  other places in Latin America that are leading
• 30:51
  in the vegan and plant based movement.
• 30:55
  Mexico City has something like 80 vegan restaurants.
• 31:01
  It is a vegan Mecca.
• 31:03
  Costa Rica is very forward thinking when it
• 31:06
  comes to veganism.
• 31:09
  It was really shocking to me that Peru,
• 31:13
  which when I think of Peru, of course,
• 31:15
  this is, I've never been to Peru, but
• 31:17
  I think of a tropical forest.
• 31:19
  I think of fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains.
• 31:21
  I don't think of steak.
• 31:23
  I was very shocked, Dr. Rao, by how
• 31:28
  it's almost like a colonialist attitude toward diet.
• 31:34
  Right.
• 31:35
  It is based on, you know, colonialism is
• 31:38
  about imposing our, you know, the coloniser's culture
• 31:43
  on the colonised.
• 31:45
  I'm sure the indigenous people of Peru are
• 31:48
  not eating chicken and steak.
• 31:50
  They were eating what is available to them,
• 31:53
  which is, you know, it's growing in plenty
• 31:55
  around the plants and primarily plants is what
• 32:00
  they would be eating.
• 32:01
  So it's imposing our culture on them, saying
• 32:04
  you need to be eating McDonald's.
• 32:06
  You need to be eating, you know, Purdue
• 32:08
  chicken.
• 32:10
  That to me is a form of colonialism,
• 32:14
  right, in the food.
• 32:16
  Well, indeed, it's food colonialism.
• 32:20
  And I think it's something that what always
• 32:23
  strikes me as so frustrating is when people
• 32:28
  co-sign their own oppression.
• 32:30
  And this is what I think this university,
• 32:33
  respectfully, we invite them on any time, but
• 32:37
  I think that's what's happening.
• 32:38
  It's almost like we want to adopt the
• 32:43
  Western diet to prove whatever, when indeed a
• 32:50
  true reflexion of Peru, if you go back
• 32:54
  millennia, would be almost entirely plant-based or
• 32:58
  certainly primarily plant-based.
• 33:00
  I have to go back to Alison on
• 33:05
  that.
• 33:05
  You know, you're there, Alison, in Peru.
• 33:09
  Is there discussion about this at all?
• 33:13
  Or is this something that we're seeing from
• 33:15
  afar, but the folks there are too close
• 33:18
  to see it?
• 33:21
  Well, certainly there's a lot of discussion within
• 33:23
  the vegan community here in Peru.
• 33:26
  The majority of Peruvians who are vegan are
• 33:29
  vegan because of ethical reasons.
• 33:33
  And one of the ethical reasons is environmental.
• 33:38
  But also they're very concerned about the well
• 33:42
  -being of animals.
• 33:44
  And it's a substantial movement.
• 33:48
  And we do have a dozen vegan restaurants
• 33:55
  in Lima.
• 33:56
  So it's not something that's unknown, but there's
• 34:00
  a lot of resistance.
• 34:01
  Peru is, I would say, having lived here
• 34:04
  for nearly 40 years, there's a conservative aspect
• 34:08
  of Peru that maybe comes from Catholicism.
• 34:12
  And so there's always a conservative push to
• 34:19
  embracing new things.
• 34:21
  Now, if it's shown that you can make
• 34:24
  money with veganism, then there are thousands and
• 34:31
  millions of entrepreneurs waiting to take advantage.
• 34:34
  And so we do have a lot of
• 34:36
  new companies that have started up.
• 34:39
  One of them is called Peruvian VEF, V
• 34:41
  -E-E-F.
• 34:43
  So we have organic supermarkets.
• 34:48
  And it's more than a budding industry.
• 34:51
  Things are changing.
• 34:53
  And this lawsuit is key, pulling people together
• 34:58
  from all of the universities and bringing it
• 35:01
  into the public dialogue.
• 35:04
  So, yeah, it's not like Mexico.
• 35:11
  There's been more of a transformation due to
• 35:15
  this colonialist attitude of the wealthy who have
• 35:21
  changed the way of eating, particularly in the
• 35:25
  cities, from the traditional food to this elitist
• 35:30
  type of consumption of animals.
• 35:33
  And if you go into the rural areas,
• 35:36
  you will not find people eating nearly as
• 35:40
  much chicken as they do in the urban
• 35:44
  areas.
• 35:45
  But it's a product of colonialism, absolutely.
• 35:49
  Well, if you are joining us, we're bringing
• 35:52
  you a breaking news about this lawsuit that
• 35:56
  was filed against a major university in Peru
• 35:59
  by these two students, one of whom has
• 36:01
  joined us, and they simply want plant-based
• 36:06
  options, significant plant-based options, not just bread
• 36:10
  and pasta and rice, which is not sustainable
• 36:14
  for them health-wise.
• 36:16
  So they've made demands in this lawsuit.
• 36:19
  The dining hall must provide plant-based alternatives
• 36:22
  that are approved by a nutritionist specialising in
• 36:24
  vegan nutrition.
• 36:25
  The university must establish a registry of vegan
• 36:28
  students, and veganism must be recognised as an
• 36:31
  ethical principle protected by the fundamental right to
• 36:34
  freedom of conscience.
• 36:35
  So where does this lawsuit stand?
• 36:40
  There was a hearing.
• 36:42
  What was the outcome of the hearing in
• 36:44
  a nutshell?
• 36:45
  And what's the next step?
• 36:47
  And let's go back to Alison on that.
• 36:50
  Okay.
• 36:50
  I think Isaac, the attorney, would be a
• 36:53
  better one to answer.
• 36:54
  Well, sure.
• 36:55
  Okay.
• 36:57
  We're going to go to you.
• 36:59
  Unmute yourself, sir, and tell us what happened
• 37:02
  in court.
• 37:05
  Yes.
• 37:07
  We had the hearing on September 9th, and
• 37:12
  then there will be the judgement, because we
• 37:16
  are in a constitutional process, and it means
• 37:19
  that it's very short if we compare with
• 37:23
  other kinds of uses of judgement.
• 37:29
  So, yeah, in that case, I don't know
• 37:33
  if maybe until the last of the year,
• 37:36
  at the end of the year, we finally
• 37:38
  get a judgement, and we hope so.
• 37:40
  But it will depend on the judge, principally.
• 37:45
  So it's a judge, a single judge, making
• 37:47
  this decision.
• 37:48
  It's not a jury.
• 37:51
  It's one judge who hears this?
• 37:54
  Yeah, because we are on the first instance,
• 37:57
  and in the first instance, it's only one
• 38:00
  judge.
• 38:01
  Then after it, independent of the decision, of
• 38:06
  the judgement, if it's in favour to us
• 38:08
  or against to us, the part who is
• 38:12
  not beneficent for it will appear, the judgement,
• 38:16
  and now will be a jury.
• 38:19
  There will be the second instance where three
• 38:22
  judges, not only one, will solve the case.
• 38:25
  And if we go in the second instance,
• 38:30
  the process is over, and there will be
• 38:34
  all these requests, right?
• 38:38
  However, if we don't win in the second
• 38:44
  instance, we could go to the constitutional court.
• 38:48
  In that case, the most important court to
• 38:53
  interpret the constitution in our country.
• 38:56
  Let me ask you this question.
• 38:59
  Did the university show up at the hearing,
• 39:01
  and what exactly did they say in their
• 39:04
  own defence in front of the judge?
• 39:07
  It's a very important question.
• 39:11
  The defence, the other lawyers said that basically
• 39:16
  formal arguments that say that there is, we
• 39:21
  pretend a right to beginnings, and that right
• 39:24
  to beginnings doesn't exist.
• 39:26
  But that's false, because we are not pretending
• 39:29
  to recognise a new right.
• 39:33
  This right actually exists, and this is the
• 39:35
  freedom of consciousness, and we only want to,
• 39:38
  beginnings, consider as a protected belief, right?
• 39:42
  And then the other argument is that beginnings,
• 39:46
  there is not a conscience about how beginnings
• 39:51
  will impact our health, and we need a
• 39:54
  new, a whole other process when you can
• 39:58
  discuss even more with a lot of specialists
• 40:01
  about this beginnings, why it's good for our
• 40:05
  health, or their health is not in risk
• 40:09
  if you are vegan, right?
• 40:11
  And in that case, we thank Dr. Barnard,
• 40:18
  because he's absolutely authority in this topic, and
• 40:22
  said that there are a lot of international
• 40:25
  organisations, a lot of experts that said, even
• 40:30
  if they are not vegans, but beginnings is
• 40:32
  perfect.
• 40:34
  I'm going to jump in and say, okay,
• 40:37
  so the attorneys for the school argued against,
• 40:41
  in court, this all happened on September 9th,
• 40:44
  I want to talk a little bit about
• 40:45
  the implications, because, for example, there was a
• 40:50
  gentleman who happens to be a writer at
• 40:52
  Unchained TV, Jordi Casamejana, who went to court
• 40:55
  in England, and said that he had a
• 41:00
  basic right as a vegan, and it's a
• 41:03
  very complicated lawsuit, it's not exactly similar to
• 41:05
  this, but the bottom line was that that
• 41:08
  lawsuit ultimately established veganism as a protected class
• 41:13
  akin to religion in the United Kingdom, and
• 41:17
  that had huge implications for, let's say, a
• 41:21
  company having a holiday party, they provide vegan
• 41:24
  options, so this was a huge development.
• 41:27
  I want to ask Dr. Rao, what are
• 41:29
  the legal implications, in your opinion, let's say
• 41:32
  they were to win, ultimately, in terms of
• 41:35
  what schools around Latin America and other institutions
• 41:39
  would have to do to avoid also being
• 41:42
  sued?
• 41:44
  Yeah, I think this has tremendous implications.
• 41:48
  If we win the lawsuit, then it establishes
• 41:52
  this as a right to conscience, which is
• 41:56
  not just about food, but also, I mean,
• 41:59
  as the attorney was telling us about, you
• 42:05
  know, veterinary students don't have to learn how
• 42:09
  to disassemble animals, which is what they're taught
• 42:12
  to do, right?
• 42:13
  How to kill them.
• 42:15
  They're taught, because their conscience is to protect
• 42:17
  the animals, so they want to do that.
• 42:20
  So I think it has tremendous implications for
• 42:22
  all educational institutions, in Peru especially, and probably
• 42:27
  throughout the world.
• 42:30
  People can cite that as a precedent.
• 42:33
  So when you really think about it, it
• 42:36
  could be the best thing that ever happened
• 42:38
  for veganism, for the school to have been
• 42:42
  so intransigent and absolutely not flexible and not
• 42:49
  embracing of students who were saying, this is
• 42:52
  against our belief system to eat the body
• 42:55
  parts of animals or their byproducts.
• 42:57
  Please provide us with something healthy to eat
• 43:00
  that is vegan, something substantial, not just bread
• 43:03
  and pasta.
• 43:05
  And ultimately, those students filed suit.
• 43:09
  I think it's really interesting, Yennefer, to think
• 43:13
  about the unintended consequences.
• 43:16
  I mean, if they had decided, yeah, okay,
• 43:18
  we're going to give you some fruits and
• 43:20
  vegetables every day, it might have just gone
• 43:23
  away.
• 43:24
  But now there's this opportunity to really make
• 43:27
  a change culturally in Peru and beyond.
• 43:30
  Can you give us your feelings on that?
• 43:34
  Yes.
• 43:36
  When I talked with Gabriel and Luis, they
• 43:40
  told me that some of the students, this
• 43:42
  is really important, well, they were not food
• 43:49
  to eat more than bread and pasta.
• 43:51
  And Luis told me that for a second
• 43:54
  he doubted about still going vegan, still being
• 43:59
  vegan, and that was really, really sad.
• 44:03
  And just Gabriela, she was suffering a lot
• 44:07
  of bullying and that affected her mental health.
• 44:13
  It's really upsetting.
• 44:15
  Yeah, but I mean, in a way, their
• 44:18
  courage has given this voice to this whole
• 44:21
  issue.
• 44:23
  Is it something everybody's talking about?
• 44:26
  Is it getting a lot of conversation?
• 44:31
  Well, not that much.
• 44:33
  After the hearing, there were some friends that
• 44:37
  supported, some students that supported.
• 44:40
  It's just a minimal group, maybe 10 to
• 44:45
  20 people.
• 44:47
  But after that, the university did give them
• 44:51
  the support they should.
• 44:52
  And after the hearing, that changed a little
• 44:58
  bit.
• 44:58
  Now they have a little bit more support
• 45:00
  of their professors, some other students.
• 45:06
  Let me ask, Alison, let me ask you
• 45:11
  this.
• 45:12
  Is there media coverage of this issue in
• 45:17
  Peru?
• 45:17
  I would think this would be a pretty
• 45:19
  good story.
• 45:23
  Actually, there has not been a lot of
• 45:25
  media coverage.
• 45:27
  You know how timing is everything.
• 45:29
  And right now we're experiencing a lot of
• 45:31
  forest fires in the Amazon jungle.
• 45:33
  And a lot of the protesting, there's been
• 45:36
  daily protesting throughout the country in defence of
• 45:42
  the Amazon forest.
• 45:44
  So that's been drawing attention away from this.
• 45:50
  But that's why we're here today speaking with
• 45:54
  you and why we're spreading the word through
• 45:57
  the plant-based treaty website and the petition
• 46:01
  that they put out.
• 46:03
  And doing everything that we can to raise
• 46:06
  awareness about what's happening.
• 46:09
  And so it's still early on in the
• 46:12
  process.
• 46:14
  But it's very, very important that we push
• 46:17
  through now and get this into the public
• 46:19
  awareness.
• 46:20
  Were you in court?
• 46:22
  The hearing was virtual.
• 46:24
  Did you attend the hearing?
• 46:27
  Yes, I did.
• 46:28
  Okay, so how do you think it went?
• 46:31
  I was shocked how unprepared the other attorney
• 46:36
  was.
• 46:36
  He was basically trying to dismiss the case
• 46:40
  right up front.
• 46:41
  And beyond that, he was unprepared.
• 46:43
  He didn't even realise that there were going
• 46:46
  to be three international speakers defending.
• 46:50
  So he was unprepared in that way.
• 46:54
  Tell us about the three international speakers defending.
• 46:57
  Yes, we reached out early on to Dr.
• 47:03
  Rao at Climate Healers.
• 47:05
  We reached out to plant-based universities where
• 47:10
  Alistair Stewart supported us in giving us ideas
• 47:15
  on how to get international support.
• 47:19
  We reached out then at his recommendation to
• 47:23
  the Vegan Society.
• 47:24
  And they responded immediately.
• 47:26
  Dr. Jeanette Rowley, who represents the legal department
• 47:29
  of the Vegan Society, stepped out.
• 47:33
  I want to jump in.
• 47:35
  So, Dr. Rao, and sorry to interrupt, what
• 47:39
  was your pitch?
• 47:40
  What did you say?
• 47:42
  Yeah, I provided them with why going vegan
• 47:47
  is important for the environment, not just for
• 47:49
  climate change, but for all six planetary boundaries
• 47:53
  that we have transgressed in the life support
• 47:56
  systems of the planet.
• 47:57
  It's as if the planet has like six
• 47:59
  different fires going on in different aspects of
• 48:02
  the life support system.
• 48:04
  And if the world goes vegan, we can
• 48:06
  quench all of them.
• 48:07
  I mean, it's like it's a no-brainer,
• 48:09
  right?
• 48:09
  Today, I was speaking at the University of
• 48:11
  Iowa.
• 48:12
  I'm in Iowa right now.
• 48:14
  And I was speaking to students.
• 48:16
  And I just presented them the data on
• 48:18
  land use and, you know, how much land
• 48:22
  is being used for animal agriculture, how much
• 48:25
  food is it providing.
• 48:26
  So I gave them all the data, and
• 48:27
  then I asked them, how would you solve
• 48:30
  this problem?
• 48:30
  And they immediately said, they all immediately said,
• 48:32
  we should go vegan.
• 48:34
  It's that obvious, okay?
• 48:36
  If it's so obvious to students who are
• 48:38
  seeing the data for the first time, why
• 48:40
  isn't it obvious to an academic institution like
• 48:44
  the University of San Marcos?
• 48:48
  Why don't they make the same connexions that
• 48:50
  the students just made?
• 48:52
  So I say that it's something that we
• 48:55
  are all pretending not to see, and it
• 48:58
  is so self-evident, and it's time to
• 49:00
  stop pretending and time to get serious about
• 49:03
  addressing these environmental issues.
• 49:05
  And there is one way to do it,
• 49:07
  which is to go vegan as quickly as
• 49:09
  possible.
• 49:10
  And I've been saying this for so long.
• 49:12
  It's so obvious to me, too.
• 49:14
  Do we still have Steve in Dallas, Texas?
• 49:18
  No, all the colours have dropped off, sorry.
• 49:20
  Well, this is what I find so completely
• 49:24
  just horrifying, is that the students are protesting
• 49:28
  against the environmental destruction that's happening, but they're
• 49:32
  not connecting the dots to their own diet.
• 49:35
  So they're not paying attention to the demand
• 49:39
  for vegan options in the university as much
• 49:42
  as they should because they're busy protesting the
• 49:45
  fires that are the result of the meat
• 49:48
  industry's destruction of the land, and it's very
• 49:51
  hard to get anybody.
• 49:53
  You know, when people's so-called self-interest
• 49:59
  depends on them not understanding something, it's very
• 50:02
  hard to explain it to them.
• 50:05
  That's really the fundamental thing.
• 50:07
  People don't want to know.
• 50:09
  They don't want to see the obvious.
• 50:11
  Just like people who are alcoholics don't want
• 50:15
  to see that the solution isn't drinking alcohol,
• 50:18
  it's the problem.
• 50:20
  And so this is where we're at.
• 50:23
  We only have a couple of seconds left.
• 50:25
  I want to thank everybody for being on
• 50:27
  this panel.
• 50:28
  It's been a wild ride, but please understand,
• 50:30
  people, that these folks are coming from all
• 50:32
  over the world, from Peru, and they're making
• 50:38
  do as best they can in terms of
• 50:40
  Internet, Wi-Fi, and other technologies.
• 50:42
  So we're very grateful to have them.
• 50:46
  Yennefer, what would you say?
• 50:48
  If you could say one thing for 30
• 50:50
  seconds to the judge, what would you say?
• 50:54
  I would tell the judge that if the
• 50:59
  university gives vegan options, it would be a
• 51:02
  great step for the vegan society in Peru.
• 51:06
  I actually do think that because the San
• 51:11
  Marcos, this university is huge.
• 51:14
  Everyone in Peru knows the San Marcos, so
• 51:17
  it's going to pop up in news and
• 51:19
  in papers.
• 51:21
  Everyone is going to be talking about that.
• 51:23
  So as I said, all of other institutions
• 51:26
  are going to follow that step.
• 51:28
  So it's a really big deal.
• 51:31
  So I hope the judge understands that, that
• 51:35
  this is a good point of changing the
• 51:39
  things how we know in Peru and start
• 51:41
  helping our planet, helping our health, and especially
• 51:45
  for the animals, right?
• 51:47
  I want to thank everybody who participated.
• 51:49
  Thank you so much for jumping on, Dr.
• 51:52
  Rao.
• 51:52
  I know you're a very busy man, and
• 51:54
  I appreciate you being here.
• 51:56
  And to everybody watching, please download Unchained TV.
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