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Are You Correctly Categorizing Your Dances at Competition? · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:11
SPEAKER_03: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_03: This is making the impact of the dance competition podcast.
0:16
SPEAKER_03: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:23
SPEAKER_03: The human brain creates order, structure, and categories.
0:27
SPEAKER_03: It's how we make sense of the world around us.
0:29
SPEAKER_03: In the competitive dance industry, categories are also a way to separate styles of dance into easily understandable and dedicatable genres of work.
0:36
SPEAKER_03: In this episode of Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast, we dive deep into correctly categorizing your dances for competition and debate what happens when a style of dance just won't fit into the structures we've created.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, it's Courtney Ortiz, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm here, of course, with my co-host Leslie Mailer.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: Hello, everybody.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: Really excited for this episode today.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: We are talking about correctly categorizing your dances, and I know that we're getting prepped for the upcoming competition season.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: And I think that this is definitely a hot topic because we have so many different fusions of styles these days, and teachers are uncertain as to where to place your dances, whether it's lyrical or contemporary, or if it's tap or open or hip-hop or jazz, whatever it is.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: We have so many things to talk about.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna definitely lay the laws down and let you know where you should be placing your dances at competition today with two fabulous guests.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: But before we meet them, we have some fabulous sponsors this season, and I want Leslie to talk all about it.
1:40
SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: So we are so happy to have Level Up Dance Supplies come back and join us for season two.
1:46
SPEAKER_03: They were one of our first sponsors for season one, and so we are just you know eternally grateful for their support.
1:52
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1:57
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2:03
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2:07
SPEAKER_03: And as time changes, so does Level Up Dance Supplies.
2:10
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2:16
SPEAKER_03: Quality and affordability is always a top priority for Level Up.
2:20
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2:24
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2:30
SPEAKER_02: We love you, Level Up.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: Yay! Thanks so much for joining us again for season two.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: We love having you as a sponsor, so definitely check them out.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: And we're excited to have another new sponsor on the podcast for this entire season, and that's Dance Costumes by Erzua.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: I know that we're all prepping for the competition season, like I previously mentioned, and if you are, then you're probably in need of a costume.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: And Dance Costumes by Urzua can definitely help you with that.
2:56
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3:02
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3:09
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3:18
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3:22
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3:32
SPEAKER_02: We hope you'll check them out.
3:34
SPEAKER_03: And it's review time.
3:35
SPEAKER_03: Woo! We love reviews.
3:37
SPEAKER_03: Thank you to everyone who's taken the time to write a review.
3:40
SPEAKER_03: We are just always grateful.
3:42
SPEAKER_03: You guys don't know how much this helps us in getting our name out there, getting the word out there about IDA and making the impact.
3:48
SPEAKER_03: So this one comes from Sarah0318, and she says, I started listening from the very beginning, and I cannot believe how many amazing things have come out of listening to this podcast.
3:58
SPEAKER_03: Because of Making the Impact, we tried Diva Dance competition and had a great experience and planned to go every season.
4:04
SPEAKER_03: Yay.
4:04
SPEAKER_03: It also put me in touch with Kelsey Nelson, who we love because I started following her and fell in love with her conditioning exercises.
4:11
SPEAKER_03: Turns out she lives one hour north of me and we're gonna get together to collaborate.
4:15
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, love it.
4:16
SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
4:16
SPEAKER_03: Lastly, on the Senior Spotlight episode, we met a senior from Claremont, Florida, and she mentions a dance that meant so much to her called I'm Alive.
4:23
SPEAKER_03: We competed against them two years ago, and she's right.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: The dance was pure magic, and I still think of it to this day.
4:28
SPEAKER_03: It was spectacular.
4:29
SPEAKER_03: It was such a coincidence that I knew what dance she was talking about.
4:31
SPEAKER_03: The dance world is small.
4:33
SPEAKER_03: You ladies say that all the time.
4:35
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
4:35
SPEAKER_03: Every single person in the dance world should be listening to this podcast.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: Ugh, oh my gosh.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: That must be I I think that's 100% the best review we've ever gotten.
4:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that it's so detailed, and obviously we can tell that that Sarah, you have definitely listened to probably the entire season of the podcast.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: You made so many references throughout season one.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: So we're so happy for this review.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Sarah.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: That was awesome.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: All right, y'all, it's time.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: We're really excited for this topic, and I'd love to introduce you to our two fabulous IDA judges who are joining us today.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: And let's get to know our very first IDA judge who is brand new to the podcast.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: Let's welcome Josh Sallerson.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: Hello, hello, how are you?
5:17
SPEAKER_00: Hello, ladies.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: I am doing wonderful.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: How are you?
5:21
SPEAKER_02: So good.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: So excited to be here.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: Yay.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: We're so happy to have you on the pod as a first timer.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: So welcome.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: And thank you.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Since you're new to the pod and to all of the listeners out there, please feel free to share a little bit about you, who you are, where you're based, and anything that you'd like to let them know about.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: So I am originally from Atlanta, Georgia, or Marietta home with Miss Leslie.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Talk about the dance world being a small world.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: But now I am based here in Austin, Texas, where I am a freelance dance instructor and choreographer, but I'm also working on my 200-hour yoga teacher certificate and a holistic health and wellness coach.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: So incorporating all of that together into one.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: And we're we're so happy to have you on the IDA roster.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: I know that you joined last season, and we haven't had a chance to get you out because you know last season was what it was.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: But we hope to have you out and about judging for IDA so soon.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: So welcome to the pod, Josh.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: All right, and our next guest, you may remember from season one, Chloe was on season one, episode two, competition cleaning, perfecting your routines.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: That was right at the top of the season last year.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: So we're very excited to have back Chloe Roberts.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: Hi.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Hi, thank you so much for having me back.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: So exciting.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: So happy to have you.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: And for our new listeners, let's remind everybody a little bit about who you are, where you're based, and what you're up to.
6:57
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I'm a dancer.
6:59
SPEAKER_04: I dance for Nebula Dance Company and Sayla Dance Collective.
7:03
SPEAKER_04: Both are based in Santa Barbara, California.
7:06
SPEAKER_04: And then I am also the jazz director at Santa Barbara Dance Arts, which is a competition studio there.
7:12
SPEAKER_04: But I also freelance and I travel around and I do choreography for people anywhere, everywhere.
7:18
SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
7:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: Fabulous.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much, Chloe, for being back and for both of you for joining us for this great episode topic.
7:26
SPEAKER_03: So this episode has an inspired by blog that was released back in March 2017.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: It was called Correctly Categorizing Your Dances.
7:33
SPEAKER_03: And it featured one of our favorites.
7:35
SPEAKER_03: Christina Balinski was our guest writer.
7:38
SPEAKER_03: So if you want even more after you listen to this episode, go check that one out at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash judges blog.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: All right, y'all.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: Let's jump into this topic.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about correctly categorizing your dances today and what that means to the dancers who are performing in the dances, what that means to the teachers when they are selecting which category to enter their routine in after they've finished and completed their choreography.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: And also just to kind of help clarify for any of the dance parents out there when sometimes you might be watching a routine and it might be labeled at competition in this specific genre and you don't really understand why or, you know, how it was placed there.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: So we really want to try to help clarify that because I know personally, and I don't know if I if you guys all feel this way, but I'm a really big stickler about properly placed dances at competition.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: And I have a lot of feelings about that, which I'm sure we'll talk about today.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: That's what this is about.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: But let's just kind of start off by discussing the different expectations for each genre of dance, anything that comes to mind to you that you want to see in a contemporary routine versus a lyrical routine versus a jazz routine.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: Anything that comes to your head?
8:46
SPEAKER_00: I would say the one thing that I really like about competitions these days is when you, as an instructor or director, or choreographer, they have on their website the different categories in which, you know, each dance should be categorized as, and they have their ideas of what each genre should be.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: And it really provides like a really great guideline, at least to base.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: And then if you want to be a little creative and push the envelope, you know what they're each expecting.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: But for me, if I'm gonna see a lyrical dance, I want it to have a really strong basis of technique, really clean lines and beautiful images, pictures.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's a solo, group, duet, doesn't matter, I still think you can create a very picturesque idea on stage in the lyrical category.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: And then like for I would say for modern, if you're gonna categorize something as modern, and I don't know how many competitions, you know, have modern as a specific category, but if you're gonna if you're going to have modern as a category, then it needs to reference some really classical modern techniques.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: Maybe classical is not the right word, but I wanna see contractions, I want to see really grounded movement, a foundation of some sort of really technical modern technique.
10:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:15
SPEAKER_03: And I think the question isn't you said, you know, whether they even have a modern category.
10:19
SPEAKER_03: Well, most of them do, but does it get entered into?
10:22
SPEAKER_03: Never.
10:22
SPEAKER_03: No.
10:23
SPEAKER_03: And if it does, it's usually not modern.
10:25
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
10:26
SPEAKER_03: You know, you're not seeing those traditional forms of like recognizable Dunham, Graham, Lamone, Cunningham.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: Like you could just name them all that I want to see, and I never see them.
10:35
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it makes you wonder like, do we even need this category anymore?
10:38
SPEAKER_00: And I absolutely think we do need it.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: I think it's just a matter of how to properly utilize it.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: And then it goes back into choreography.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: And what what are we exactly saying with our choreography?
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Is this, you know, I'm a very big fan of repetitious movement and different sequencing and creating phrases just because for me as a judge, I like to see the same kind of statement a couple of times because you know, we watch a hundred dances, 200 dances over a weekend, and the one that's repeated in my head a lot, that's what I'm gonna remember.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's like a really good quality of modern dances.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: A lot of, you know, traditional modern dances will have a phrase that they will repeat over and over again with different, you know, variations or different qualities of some sort.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: I think um just to tap onto the that as far as modern dance in in general, I'm glad you brought up modern.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: I was hoping that we would talk about that on this discussion, and I feel like that I've had a handful of I've actually I've either been to or judged a competition where the the modern was combined with contemporary.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: It was contemporary/slash modern, and I'm like, that's not the same thing.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: No.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: So I was really upset at that competition.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: I can't remember.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry if I'm calling you out if you know who you are, change your categories, but it, you know, and I think that's what this is about.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: There are just to let you know, all everyone out there, they are two different styles.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: So they should not be entered into the same.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: And like you said, Josh, we are looking for that modern foundation, the lateral T's, the contractions, those types of things, the grounded movement, the swings on the floor, the correct floor work.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: There is a style and technique to modern dance, and we want to see that.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: It, you know, if it's on the line and bring into contemporary, then put it in contemporary.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: But I think that they are very different styles.
12:29
SPEAKER_04: I think that maybe something that would be helpful, especially for like maybe any new teachers that are listening, is if maybe we could like quickly go through the genres and talk about like some specific movements or styles that we see as like necessary for each of those genres.
12:45
SPEAKER_04: Kick us off, Chloe.
12:46
SPEAKER_04: Sure.
12:47
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
12:47
SPEAKER_03: Um maybe we'll do jazz.
12:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
12:50
SPEAKER_04: I was gonna say, let's start with jazz.
12:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
12:52
SPEAKER_04: So I feel like something that's really difficult when you categorize jazz is that, you know, jazz doesn't mean one thing.
12:59
SPEAKER_04: You know, jazz has changed so much since it was, you know, kind of what we would think of as early, you know, 1900s Afro inspired inspired jazz.
13:07
SPEAKER_04: And then we get this transition in the 40s to stuff that's like more, you know, Fossy kind of style jazz.
13:12
SPEAKER_04: It's transitioned so much.
13:13
SPEAKER_04: And so now comps have to take all of that and put it into a jazz category.
13:18
SPEAKER_04: You know, street jazz, contemporary jazz, all of that kind of falls under that umbrella.
13:22
SPEAKER_04: But if we're gonna talk about, you know, classical jazz, then I really just want to see nice clean lines, isolations, strong use of the back, extension through the arms, nice placement in the upper body.
13:32
SPEAKER_04: So for me, like I it's all kind of all about making those super, super clean classic jazz lines.
13:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't know if you guys have to add to that.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: I absolutely agree with that.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that you said that, especially with isolations or, you know, people call them contagions or, you know, things that, you know, I want to see those, that kind of sequencing, tons of crossball changes.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: You could crossball change until like the cows come home and I'd be very happy with that.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: But I also want to see you really respond to the music in terms of those because I feel like really good classical jazz, I think of Giridano, you know, it's all about the lines and the isolations, but in relationship to the music, especially when it gets to be live music, and that's that's kind of stuff that I would really want to see when we're looking at like a jazz dance.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not the tricks, it's not, you know, the axles or the you know, the ch it's it's none of that.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: It's none of that.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I really think when I think jazz, I think style.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: I really want to see that style.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, if you want to add the pizzazz and you want to add the tricks and all the fun, flashy competition things that you think you need in your dance, great, that's fine.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: And we won't be judging you on those because you inserted them into your dance.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: But you know, but someone could come out on stage and have a classic jazz routine that had all of those elements that we just described, just have a strong focus, gorgeous technique, nice lines, understanding of shading, resistance, you know, the stylized quality, use of their plie when they need to, dynamics.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's so many lists of descriptive words that we're looking for in jazz.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: They could have all of those elements and not have an axle and not have a tilt jump and not have an aerial and have zero tricks.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: Please don't have an aerial.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, we don't need an aerial, but you know, we don't, I think that our competition world has evolved us into feeling like we need these tricks.
15:21
SPEAKER_02: And like, yes, you know, sometimes we have a great trick we want to show off.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying don't do your trick, but I will say that there could be a dancer that excels at all of those descriptive terms for what jazz dance is, and they might stand out more because they didn't have tricks and weren't just trying to like jam-pack the routine.
15:39
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
15:40
SPEAKER_02: So especially for jazz, I really want that style there.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we want style in every genre that we compete in, but and with jazz, there are so many variations of styles, kind of like what you were saying, Chloe, with the street jazz versus the contemporary jazz versus the classic jazz, even just a high energy, hard-hitting jazz.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: I need to see that you have that downbeat there and that energy.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: And then with the stylized classic jazz, you can have a little bit more oozy quality, a little bit more sultry, a little bit more resisted, you know?
16:09
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of variations of jazz dance.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: I love I love jazz.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: Courtney, I think you hit the nail on the head.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Chloe, I think you also said this too.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: It really is about the style of it and not necessarily so much the technique that's necessarily involved in it.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Because I was just thinking, as you were saying this, of all of the, you know, non-competitive jazz dances that I have seen, whether they've been in a movie or a performance of some sort, you know, you think of a Broadway, you know, musical and whatnot.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: And not a lot of them have a bunch of the technique in there.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just, for example, and this is a very, you know, generic reference, but like, let's look at Chicago, the musical, and how very much in terms of like jazz music and old time, like perfect for that.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: And there's not there the technique is the style.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: That's what you have to remember.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: Because the the the technique behind it is style.
17:05
SPEAKER_04: Right.
17:05
SPEAKER_04: No, I think that's a good point because I mean, like, as someone that is trained in Fossi, I like I when I teach Fosse to my students, they're always shocked that they always say they're like, it's so hard.
17:15
SPEAKER_04: And they're kind of surprised.
17:16
SPEAKER_04: And I think it's because it's not, it doesn't like hit you in the face as in, you know, here's a crazy leg or things that we think of as tricks.
17:25
SPEAKER_04: Like doing 16 counts of really small fossy bumps is really hard to do correctly.
17:31
SPEAKER_04: And so I think you're right that it's not like this in your face what we would think of as technique, but it it is a technique and it's very difficult to do.
17:38
SPEAKER_04: So it's just understanding the different kinds of jazz technique and knowing that it's not just one kind of stylized technique.
17:46
SPEAKER_04: There's so many different nuances to that.
17:48
SPEAKER_04: Totally.
17:48
SPEAKER_04: And that that's important that that students learn those lineages.
17:51
SPEAKER_04: That that's you know, people always say that classic jazz is dying, and I'm like holding on to my things.
17:57
SPEAKER_04: It's not dying, I will die on that cross.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: No, we gotta keep it going.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: We actually have a jazz uh podcast coming up where we're gonna be talking about that.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: I think.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: I don't we don't have a title yet, but something about keeping jazz alive.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: So there you go, Chloe.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're shouting.
18:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: One more little like moment about jazz, because we could again talk about this all day, which we will in a few weeks.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: But I think Josh, for me, you hit the nail on the head when you talked about reacting to the music.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: You know, when we think about jazz dance from the early days of jazz, it was too jazz music.
18:32
SPEAKER_03: It was a reaction to the music.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: And that was not the case with other kinds of dancing.
18:37
SPEAKER_03: You know, it was ballet was not reacting to the music.
18:40
SPEAKER_03: That was wasn't what ballet was about, but jazz was about that.
18:42
SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, that's why we see these styles kind of evolving because the music evolves and there is that relationship with the music.
18:49
SPEAKER_03: So I think there is so much more to be said about that in this style of dance, where we also, like we've been saying, there are a multitude of techniques and a multitude of styles, just like within modern, but I think it's easier for us to recognize them in jazz.
19:03
SPEAKER_03: And it's easier for teachers, maybe I feel like there's it's it's more rare to have an incorrectly placed jazz dance at a competition because jazz are is so many things, and we accept that and we believe that and we recognize that.
19:16
SPEAKER_03: So they do fit really easily into the jazz category.
19:18
SPEAKER_03: Whereas transition into contemporary, that's a whole big mess of things that nobody can really define yet.
19:25
SPEAKER_03: So, like, let's talk about that a little bit.
19:27
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
19:27
SPEAKER_04: Well, I think that talking about the music actually lends itself in a really good to a really good segue to talking first about lyrical and then maybe into contemporary.
19:36
SPEAKER_04: Because for me, I think that lyrical is I need to be able to see someone, as you were saying earlier, Josh, about like the pictures and the clear technique.
19:45
SPEAKER_04: When I watch a lyrical solo, for example, I want to make sure that I can see that that student has a really strong ballet technique and some sort of jazz technique as well.
19:54
SPEAKER_04: And then those two things are combined.
19:56
SPEAKER_04: But I think what's really important about lyrical is that it's it's a story that is driven by the music.
20:02
SPEAKER_04: So I think making sure that there is that strong storytelling aspect to lyrical is is important to me as a judge.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you think about it, if you think about just even the word lyric, lyrical, right, in reference to lyrics and telling the story.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: And if if we're not even referencing the music that we're dancing to, we're taking the time to respond to it, right?
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Is it are we actually dancing lyrical or are we dancing some other category to a lyrical style song?
20:30
SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that lyrical, and and of course, everybody, please go listen to our most listened to episode, Lyrical versus Contemporary.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: I love that episode.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say it's a great episode.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: I was about to say the same thing.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: It's a good one, and it's still our most played episode, our most downloaded and listened to episode, even now in season two.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: And we really, we really dive deep into the separation of what lyrical and contemporary are as genres, but you know, I agree in in both ways as far as when it comes to like song selection for lyrical.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: I I want to see the storytelling, I want to see the connection, I want to see the emotion that's definitely there.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: And then there's always that debate, and I think we talked about it in that episode about do you can you have a lyrical dance without music?
21:17
SPEAKER_02: There might be a song style that sounds like lyrical dance, that is very balletic, that you can still connect with and tell a story through your expression and your movement without having actual lyrics in there.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of curious to hear your guys' perspective on that.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, I absolutely believe that you could have a lyrical dance without words and you can still tell a story to it, because even if there aren't you know, ballet is a specific genre of movement.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're incorporating a petit allegro into this so-called dance without, you know, lyrics, then it may be considered a ballet piece.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: But if you're not referencing that style of technique in there and you are really focusing on your storytelling, your pictures, and really evoking a certain emotion through your movement, then absolutely, why wouldn't you?
22:10
SPEAKER_00: You don't need there are so many beautiful musicians out there that create such magical pieces that would be fabulous to dance to that don't have music or lyrics.
22:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I agree.
22:22
SPEAKER_04: I think I can be, after listening to that episode, I was like, oh, I could be convinced either way.
22:27
SPEAKER_04: I think that like there are certain pieces that it absolutely does work really well for and then other ones maybe not so much.
22:32
SPEAKER_04: So again, it's kind of one of those things that is up to the discretion of the particular choreographer and how how much they think it falls into either side.
22:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:41
SPEAKER_03: And I guess like their job in that case is to con convince us, you know, like if if you really believe that this fits here, convince us.
22:49
SPEAKER_03: Show us with your movement and with your choreography because, you know, we've it's a struggle, you know, it's a struggle as a j as a judge to be able to do our job well if the placement isn't correct.
23:00
SPEAKER_03: And it and it's heartbreaking sometimes, you know, to sit there and watch a dance and you're like, this doesn't belong here.
23:06
SPEAKER_03: And I how do I I can't properly adjudicate this if it's not in the right place.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: And well and then it it puts it puts unfortunately the dancer at a disservice because then they wonder why they don't do well in a certain category or like you could be a a very you know fierce technical dancer doing something that is just in the wrong category and you're up against someone else who did an equally fierce thing but they were appropriately categorized.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: And well that's my of my opinion I'm gonna go with the person that's in the right genre.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:44
SPEAKER_04: Well and also aren't there some comps that now allow judges to move dances?
23:48
SPEAKER_04: Is that a thing, Courtney?
23:50
SPEAKER_04: You know, I feel like that I don't know.
23:52
SPEAKER_04: I feel like I've heard of that before.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: I definitely try to be the judge that pushes for something I don't know if I get that but um I feel like I've heard that yeah like I've had friends that have been like yeah I've moved people and like I've yeah I'm trying to think of course no I'm never gonna be able to know I like to yeah I mean there have been so many times on my end as a judge when I'm watching a routine and very much like what you were just saying Josh because it is it does penalize the dancer or the dance unfortunately because yes we are judging you for what you're putting on stage and if you just wanted us to judge your technique and performance then there shouldn't be categories at competition.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: And you know if you if you really care about the levels so much and you really care about the age ranges so much, then maybe we just need to eliminate genres at competition if you're not willing to hear a critique or understand why you got penalized for misplacing it properly.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: You know it it's it's important to know the different styles.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: If you're on the brink and you're uncertain, you know, be safe and put it in open.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe we as choreographers and teachers should be guiding around the definitions of what these genres are when we're creating our piece so we know when we go into rehearsal that day, this is my teen jazz small group.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: And how what do I need to do as a choreographer to make this a jazz dance and not a contemporary jazz dance because that's very different.
25:16
SPEAKER_02: And then when you do start doing that, you know, again that's a fine line because now we're kind of blending genres and it has to be more jazz than contemporary for me as a judge to be okay with the placement.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: If it's just a contemporary dance, then I'm gonna be sitting back being confused why this is in the jazz category and I'm gonna probably say on my critique, which I've said so many times, hey note to the teacher this doesn't belong in this category.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: This is absolutely contemporary you need to move it to the next you need to move to contemporary for the next competition.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: You know and I and that's all that we really can do.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: And you know if there is a if there is a score for choreography on our breakdown of score sheets, I will probably take a few little ticks off because I let you know why you improperly placed this and that's what it's very hard to do but it's important.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: It's extremely important job.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: I think you I think you said one of my favorite things is like starting to ask the question at the very beginning of the rehearsal process is like, what am I doing?
26:11
SPEAKER_00: If this is my teen jazz category, okay great fantastic what are the elements that either A I want to create or B that I need to create in order to stay true to what this category is asking.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: When I judge I I sometimes wonder you know if choreographers or instructors are asking these questions to themselves.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, and that's a whole other tangent of the choreographic process but these questions are absolutely vital in order to have a successful season for competition.
26:42
SPEAKER_03: And I think if you you know if if you have for whatever reason not asked yourself that question, I think the next step is to ask a peer, ask a colleague, ask another teacher at your studio, hey what like watch my dance and then after they watch it say, what do you think this is?
26:57
SPEAKER_03: And if they say jazz and you said you think I did a jazz dance, great, then we agree.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: But like if they're hesitant they're like then maybe you have a problem, you know, and figure that out.
27:07
SPEAKER_04: Well and I often wonder too like where does the struggle to place come from?
27:12
SPEAKER_04: Does it come from not reading the comp's descriptions of what their genre breakdown is or does it come from like truly not knowing?
27:20
SPEAKER_04: Like maybe these teachers don't actually know what they're creating.
27:25
SPEAKER_04: And I mean like I have interviewed people to hire for choreography and for teaching and I've said okay so like on your resume it says that you can teach jazz like what style of jazz is your training and they don't know.
27:36
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like okay well that's kind of an issue you know like you need to maybe think about and like go and do a little bit of research because you you are trained in some particular jazz style but if you can't name it that's usually a problem for me.
27:48
SPEAKER_04: So understanding like what your knowledge base is, that's gonna allow you to then understand like what kind of choreography you're creating and where it's coming from and maybe that will help place things a little bit more appropriately.
28:02
SPEAKER_04: But I just think that everyone kind of always is like I'm a contemporary choreographer.
28:06
SPEAKER_04: I'm like well what does that mean actually I don't I don't know if you know I don't know so like I think that you know educational from like teachers are supposed to always be learning as well.
28:16
SPEAKER_04: You're never done being a student.
28:18
SPEAKER_04: So absolutely preach to that.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: But going back Chloe to what you said about like you know what are the issues as to you know why are we categorizing not really knowing how to categorize our dances I thought of another one you know before we started this morning as to like you know what makes some of these categories blurry and a lot of it goes to having the same dancer especially for solos in multiple genres.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: I I think for example I was working with a studio and it was a small number of students and it was the same group of students that I had a modern piece an open piece and a contemporary piece.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: And that is I mean that's like the biggest bamboozle like how do I separate those all the time like what am I doing?
29:06
SPEAKER_00: And that it's on the responsibility of the choreographer especially or instructor to really take a note as to what defines a modern piece, what defines a contemporary piece and open gosh open you know I think is a very daunting category because it allows us to be so wide range and some people don't know how to do they like their boundaries.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: You know yeah I I I'm glad you brought up the point with the multiple solos.
29:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm really really glad you brought that up because I'm sure we've all been there and we've all seen it when you know of course a lot of dancers like to have multiple solos great wonderful however if you're entering multiple styles they need to be different solos.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: I remember there was a dancer once and props to their costume designer because they designed a costume that was like the same bass but then they could add things to it to make it different for each solo.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: That's brilliant interesting you know add the skirt for lyrical and take it off for and add a legging for jazz but it's like the same the same thing.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: But anyway this dancer obviously had multiple genre solos except everything was the same.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: And then they also had the same custom one practically and I'm like okay what's going on like and even as a guest choreographer myself I asked the dancer who I'm working with what other solos do you have?
30:22
SPEAKER_02: Is this a very different style?
30:24
SPEAKER_02: I want to make sure that I'm giving you something completely different.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: So if we if we are going in the contemporary jazz world and that's what you asked for and that's what you want, I want to make sure that your contemporary is a very different style contemporary.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: So it's not getting blended at all in any way, shape or form.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: I think there's too many times where we see a contemporary dance and a lyrical dance and it's the same dang thing one stage from a lot of dancers because I love contemporary and I love lyrical and like that's wonderful.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: That's great.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: You're good at it you're beautiful but we need contrasting styles.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: It needs to be an athletic hard hitting grounded contemporary dance and then we need like a beautiful delicate lyrical routine.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: You know two different things is what we we are really looking for.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Well let's see how versatile of a dancer you are if you're going to enter yourself in multiple categories as a soloist let's see you not just from the choreographer or teacher standpoint of challenging yourself and maybe you're the teacher that has created all three solos let's it's a challenge for both like let's see you dance three different styles and you know same thing with the choreographer let's see you choreograph three different styles but make them completely different.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: Because you then that's how you stand out.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: That's what we remember.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean if you think about not necessarily my favorite reference but like the people on So You Think You Can Dance back when that was on the show and knowing how people could easily be put in this category and this category and this category and they could turn it out.
31:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
31:55
SPEAKER_04: Such a good point.
31:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah it's also very impressive when it's done well.
31:59
SPEAKER_04: It's it's rare but it's impressive and I there have been times where I've seen someone do like a very very grounded hard hitting contemporary and then a soft lyrical or like a super super soft lyrical and then a really nice and tight musical theater release.
32:14
SPEAKER_04: And like that that just is like so satisfying because you're like wow I mean I saw you 10 minutes ago and you looked like a little delicate flower and here you are like doing big spender like super super full out.
32:24
SPEAKER_02: So it can be very very impressive but that is a hard line to walk yeah both dancer and choreographer wise hey listeners as we know things may look a little bit different this season at competition when it comes to health and safety and Level Up Dance Applies has found a great solution to safely socially distanced during those quick costume changes.
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33:03
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33:08
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33:12
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33:21
SPEAKER_02: And now let's get back to the show I'm that's such a great example Chloe and I love that and I agree because we as judges do get to know the dancers and the studios throughout the weekend.
33:34
SPEAKER_02: So we we you know we saw you do your first routine we're like wow that was awesome and then you come out and show us something completely different.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: That's gonna make you be memorable to us.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: We're going to remember that.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: Or we're you know even if it wasn't your best style or even if you try to step outside your comfort zone and try something new, we're going to appreciate the fact that you tried to be versatile instead of just bringing the same dance out again for like another redemption to try to get a higher score.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: Because most of the time when you do that when and I hope that there are a lot of dance parents listening to this and I hope that there are a lot of dancers that are listening to this because I'm sure that you all want five solos and they're going to be the same thing.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: So please don't do that.
34:11
SPEAKER_02: But most of the time if you have a solo that's practically identical with the same elements with the same style but just slightly different, I usually give it the same score.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: It's not like you want to make any better.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: You just I mean yeah I'm not saying you wasted money, but like at the same time you're not really improving or growing because I'm giving the same exact corrections and giving the same exact score and like maybe you got a tenth of a point higher and that one one overall.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: Cool, whatever.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, it I think we need to push our boundaries a little bit more and take some more risks with that.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: That's the only way we're gonna grow as artists and dancers in this process.
34:43
SPEAKER_04: Mine is just touching on the, you know, that you said the money thing.
34:46
SPEAKER_04: If your parents are going to spend that much money on a second solo, don't you want to at least challenge yourself and do maybe a genre that you're not as comfortable in so that you have something super, super solid to work on for you know three, four, five months until it has to be on stage and then you're like, wow, okay, I took all of this time, I invested this money and I got better at this style.
35:03
SPEAKER_04: You know, like you might as well use that if if you have the means to do a second solo or a third solo.
35:09
SPEAKER_04: You might as well use it as a learning opportunity.
35:11
SPEAKER_03: We have an episode coming up about this, but this conversation with the multiple solos also goes to okay 2021 rather the season is mostly going to be done in studio blocks at competitions.
35:22
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:23
SPEAKER_03: So this happened you know I think some of us have judged you know the sort of post-pandemic fall competitions recently where we've gotten to try this out and if you have one of those three of those solos that are in different categories but are really the same solo, it's even it's even harder for us and it's even worse for you because I've seen you number 444, number 446 and number 448 because you're just back to back.
35:48
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: So you know in moving towards the future it will be even more important for studios and teachers to categorize things correctly because I'm going to be seeing you back to back to back the same choreographer, the same kids and it's it's just going to be harder on everybody, I think.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think it's so fun it's it's interesting because I haven't necessarily I haven't judged since probably March the first weekend in March.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: And so I haven't heard about this new like blocks and and I think it's incredible.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: But it's you know I think about how dance instructors and choreographers as well as dance parents you know tend to have issues with judges for their commentary because they're not saying a lot or they're not saying as much and it's like well for that prime reason right there, if you're going to give me a dance that I just saw you do 10 minutes before what do you honestly think that I have to say that's gonna be different?
36:47
SPEAKER_00: And what are you I'm I'm gonna still tell you to use your plie.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm still gonna tell you to you know lengthen behind the knees and point the feet.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
36:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm still gonna tell you to do all of the same things that I just told you you know if the dance looks the same.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: So we need to really try to make something different.
37:07
SPEAKER_02: Totally agree.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: And I'm really excited to discuss this topic very shortly about the block scheduling and and how you know what we need to do to be better about how to approach 2021.
37:17
SPEAKER_02: And I will say that even not in the 2021 competition season with with the block scheduling, we do get to know you as a studio throughout the whole weekend and you don't want to become the studio that's the contemporary studio or the only the only the hip hop studio.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: Even if you are thinking that you're bringing other genres to the stage, but they're not different enough for you to really be, you know, in that genre.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: And and then it's just like well this is a variation of an another contemporary dance, but it's a variation of you know what they're what they're good at.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: And that's that's the thing I feel like there's so many times where I see that when you actually put the whole studio up one after the other like a recital of the studio we want to make sure that there is versatility and and different genres being shown to us if you're putting them in then.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: If you only do contemporary and that's all you guys do and that's all that you entered, then that's different.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: But I'm pretty certain that you're gonna have your tap your routine and you're gonna have your lyrical routine and your jazz routine and it can't look the same.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: And it's gonna be even harder this season to really get that point across.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: So that's for the choreographers out there, we really have to to push those boundaries even more and we're really try to adjust things more than we would think we'd have to in previous years.
38:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah I agree.
38:37
SPEAKER_04: And I just dealt with this two weekends ago I choreographed 20 solos within like a four day period.
38:43
SPEAKER_04: What?
38:44
SPEAKER_02: And uh oh my God.
38:46
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
38:47
SPEAKER_04: I think I've done 33 pieces so far this this like new wow thank you.
38:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah and so what I always worry about is I'm like oh my God they're all gonna look exactly the same.
39:01
SPEAKER_04: And so I I really really try and have conversations with my students about music choice and like what that music will be categorized as and like how that is going to relate to the choreography because there's so many I mean we can only choreograph to songs so many times.
39:20
SPEAKER_04: That could be a whole different podcast about not using the same music.
39:24
SPEAKER_04: I mean you know you guys always do the posts about the 10 most overused songs or whatever in comps.
39:29
SPEAKER_04: And so I'm constantly trying to get my students to like push the boundaries and pick music that's different that the judges haven't seen or listened to a million times before.
39:36
SPEAKER_04: And if you are going to pick a song that is consistently used, then like we've got to figure out a different angle and try and make it something that's a little bit more interesting.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:44
SPEAKER_04: And so I think that's a good note to teachers and choreographers as well is challenge yourself and challenge your students to you know get on YouTube, get on Spotify, try and find some new music that is not constantly being overused and then also make sure that you pay attention to all the different ways that that song could be categorized.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: There is one subject that I do want to touch on in terms of categorizing because I feel this is very important and how we start to incorporate this and I think we touched on it a little bit but incorporating tumbling or you read my mind.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I would it's my biggest pet peeve one of my biggest pet peeves in I teach tumbling I you know I did gymnastics as a kid growing up honestly if I don't see an aerial in a dance I I'm so okay with it.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: I want to know why you want to put them in your contemporary your jazz your this and still call it those things.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: What makes you I I I want to know the answer as to why that correlates to the genre.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think that maybe not saying that you can't have it in there but like what screams of a round off back handspring the into a contemporary piece?
40:59
SPEAKER_00: What where where does how does that inspire you?
41:02
SPEAKER_00: For me, if you have any kind of tumbling in there and this is my opinion you know take it with a grain of salt but it goes in open or you automatically go into the acro category because that's I just I don't know why that goes in there.
41:18
SPEAKER_04: That's fair.
41:19
SPEAKER_04: I mean I will say I think there is a really big difference between putting a round off back handspring back tuck into a contemporary piece and then versus putting one aerial or a front aerial into a contemporary piece.
41:31
SPEAKER_04: I think that that I I have I have put aerials and front aerials into contemporary pieces before that are first of all done and clean and are with the correct technique.
41:40
SPEAKER_04: I don't want to watch someone just like plie squeeze their abs and like hope for the best into an aerial and like huck it across the stage.
41:46
SPEAKER_04: Like that's not part of it.
41:47
SPEAKER_04: But if I have a student that's really really that does beautiful versions of both of those moves and it can seamlessly be incorporated into a phrase that builds with the music I don't think that those are problematic necessarily in contemporary piece.
41:59
SPEAKER_04: I'm so but I agree a round off a round off backhand spring is like okay we're doing all this beautiful stuff and then here we go round off backhand spring time send it through and I'm like right I'm like oh we've we have left the the contemporary dance building and we are now I'm Simone Biles here she goes you know yes I'm so glad you brought that up and I I should have clarified a little bit more because I completely agree.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: Like I watch you know the first person that I think of is someone who I grew up dancing with Melanie Moore.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: When you watch Melanie do a beautiful front aerial aerial or whatever in any of her contemporary pieces that she did on the show or you know wherever it's like okay I get it.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: And it totally fits.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: Like you said, if you're coming out of it with the technique of you know there's this juicy plie going into it and out of it, well that fits the category a little bit.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: You're using that grounding technique but then again you know if it gets into Simone Biles territory that's a different we love Simone Biles but she does her best Simone Biles came out on stage and did it fantastic.
43:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah I'm like Simone if you're listening we love you love you.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: As long as Simone if you are listening enter in the acro correct correct correct yeah I think I am so glad we are bringing this to light because I think that obviously acro has started being incorporated into every dance genre now.
43:21
SPEAKER_02: I've even seen aerials and tap dance which should be so illegal.
43:24
SPEAKER_02: Unless you're the Nicholas brothers like you can stay over there with with your aerials.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: So you know it's there's there's so many things and I I completely agree.
43:33
SPEAKER_02: I think a tumbling pass is very different than like a step aerial but no matter what it needs to be done properly and match the the style of the dance I remember like the I mean front aerials weren't a big thing back in the day.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: Like they're like a new powerhouse epic acro element that somehow everyone knows how to do all of a sudden.
43:52
SPEAKER_02: Everyone like everybody can do a front aerial everyone can do a front aerial.
43:55
SPEAKER_02: I feel like aerials were the cool thing back in the day like when we were competing.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: And now we've like advanced to the front aerials and now everyone can do those.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: And I remember the first time I saw someone do a front aerial in a lyrical routine and my mind was blown because it was so effortless and beautiful and balletic and and had this beautiful suspension out of it.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: And it was on like the beat, the like chorus bash in the music.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: The build right before Celine starts doing.
44:20
SPEAKER_02: And you're just like, oh yeah.
44:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like we'll take that.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: We we I am so okay with those.
44:26
SPEAKER_02: It's expressive.
44:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:27
SPEAKER_02: It's expresses.
44:28
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
44:28
SPEAKER_03: Just once.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we don't need it a million times.
44:32
SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing.
44:32
SPEAKER_02: I think that there are, again, just like there are category, genre, descriptions, and essentially rules as to what each we expect for each category, there are also rules as to how many acro elements you have in a category on purpose for a reason so it doesn't turn into an acro dance.
44:51
SPEAKER_02: And I think the other problem now with all of this like contortion, chin stands, like back rolled, elbow stand, chest stand things, are those considered acro tricks or are those considered dance steps?
45:03
SPEAKER_02: And what is actually an acro trick anymore?
45:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, so I think that there's that fine line where if I'm watching a contortion solo, that's to a lyrical song in a lyrical dress.
45:11
SPEAKER_02: It's not lyrical.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: It's to me, that's acro.
45:14
SPEAKER_02: You know, there needs to be more going on in this lyrical dance besides just let me stretch my leg and let me do my scorpion and I'm gonna step front aerial.
45:23
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like there's so many other elements that are missing.
45:25
SPEAKER_02: So I think that we we need to keep that in mind that acro, we like it, we're okay with it, but keep it to the limit.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: Do not jam-pack that thing.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, also if if you want to, you know, have those kinds of movement, the acro category is not a frowned-upon category.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't if you have more than two to three, you know, acro, tumbling, contortion kind of movement sequences, enter it in the acro category and enter it with conviction.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: Like I've never once heard someone say, Oh, I'm I'm doing an acro solo and being like super proud.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: Like you should be.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, if you've got it, enter it in there, and guess what?
46:07
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna probably do really well.
46:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
46:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I will say, I think two things.
46:12
SPEAKER_04: I saw an acro solo for the first time, maybe like three years ago at a comp in LA, and it was incredible.
46:19
SPEAKER_04: I was watching some girl that is probably gonna be in Cirque du Soleil if they survive bankruptcy.
46:24
SPEAKER_04: Like, she was incredible.
46:26
SPEAKER_04: And so I just remember everyone being like, wow, that was so amazing.
46:28
SPEAKER_04: And it was true acro, real contortion.
46:30
SPEAKER_04: You could tell that this person had actual training, real technique.
46:34
SPEAKER_04: It was amazing.
46:34
SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, I agree with you, Josh.
46:36
SPEAKER_04: Like, right on.
46:36
SPEAKER_04: Enter that, be proud, be the acro queen, because like that is not me.
46:40
SPEAKER_04: So like I support all of that.
46:41
SPEAKER_04: It's amazing.
46:42
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, and then the second thing that I was gonna say was, Courtney, when you're talking about like the shoulder freeze, balancing, back roll moments.
46:51
SPEAKER_04: I think that I can do with like one of those in a contemporary piece, maybe even in a lyrical piece, but again, it always comes down to like quantity versus quality.
47:01
SPEAKER_04: Totally.
47:01
SPEAKER_04: And I would rather watch one thing where I'm like, wow, that person is really strong.
47:05
SPEAKER_04: It fits that phrase, great, and then be done with it and move on.
47:08
SPEAKER_04: I don't need to watch an eight-year-old walk around on her elbows for like five, eight counters.
47:13
SPEAKER_04: Right.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: Personally, like do those, like, at least not lyrical, like chin stand rolls like across the page.
47:19
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just like things like that where it's like, that's a cool skill.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: Great.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: You you've achieved.
47:23
SPEAKER_03: But it's only a cool skill if you do it well.
47:25
SPEAKER_03: And I typically just don't see some of these things done well because truly, like you were saying, Chloe, there are true acro contortion teachers out there who teach it properly, and the way that it's manipulated into these movements looks right.
47:39
SPEAKER_03: Does it doesn't look comfortable, but most of the time I see these things, the kids look miserable.
47:45
SPEAKER_03: You just see it on their face before they roll onto their face, and their face is like, here comes the floor.
47:50
SPEAKER_03: Like it's not right, you know, it's it's not what I want to see.
47:53
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because at the end of the day, like we want them to A be safe and B to enjoy themselves.
47:58
SPEAKER_04: Like dance is supposed to be fun.
48:00
SPEAKER_04: So if your kid looks like they hate their life trying to do their acro tricks, then like maybe that's a sign that they should not be in there.
48:07
SPEAKER_04: Right.
48:07
SPEAKER_03: Or don't put it on stage yet.
48:08
SPEAKER_03: You know, if it's still if it hurts hurts you, because sometimes I do see kids who you're just like they're trying to grab that leg in the scorpion and their back is not that flexible yet.
48:15
SPEAKER_03: And that is okay.
48:17
SPEAKER_03: So go home, work on it, come back when you're like, babam, there's my leg, you know?
48:21
SPEAKER_03: Right.
48:22
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
48:23
SPEAKER_04: So wa-bam is the key.
48:24
SPEAKER_04: You have to feel the babam.
48:26
unknown: Yeah.
48:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we say it all the time on the podcast, like, don't show us what you can't do, show us what you can do.
48:31
SPEAKER_02: I think that's just like words to live by for teachers out there who are choreographing dances and making sure that we are putting elements in there that the dancers can succeed at and look their best on stage.
48:41
SPEAKER_02: And I also understand the perspective of, well, I'm gonna put this in here to give them something to push to work towards and to, you know, give them motivation to try to get their scorpion or what or whatever it is.
48:51
SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I think we have to make sure that once we hit the stage, we're we're pr we're showing off in the best you you can be.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's that's definitely important.
48:59
SPEAKER_02: And if it comes to acro routine, or not even acro routine, but acro elements in a routine, if they're not succeeding at them, I think that a lot of teachers think that they need to put them in there because that's what wins.
49:11
SPEAKER_02: We're letting you know that that's not always what wins, unless you're doing it beautifully, you know, and unless you didn't do five of them when the rule was two.
49:19
SPEAKER_02: Because I get mad and I will deduct points if you if you break the rules.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like no one watches that acro limit rule anymore.
49:25
SPEAKER_02: That's not even a rule.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: I definitely don't.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: I do.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: Me too.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: You've got some sticklers on this episode.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just it's one of those things, Chloe.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: You said it.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: It it oh, we just left the contemporary land and we went into the Olympics.
49:39
SPEAKER_00: And it's just it takes me out of a moment, especially if you're a really amazing dancer and you have brought me on this journey, whatever genre it could be, contemporary jazz, whatever.
49:50
SPEAKER_00: You brought me on this amazing journey and I'm with you.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: And then you do this unnecessary sequence of acrobatic skills, either flawlessly or subpar, whatever, it doesn't matter, but you took me out of it.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: And I I just and I and then I get upset with you because I'm like, ah, no, no, no, no, no, no.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: That wasn't the journey we were on.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: We took a detour.
50:13
SPEAKER_04: I agree.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: We took a detour and I wasn't ready.
50:16
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I will say, like, something that I have been very impressed by in the last probably year, year and a half, well, I guess year and a half pre-COVID, was kind of this evolution that I've seen of really impressive, like interesting and different acrobatic movements.
50:32
SPEAKER_04: Like I feel like there's been such a growth, kind of like what you were saying, Courtney, with like the front aerial, but stuff that's even weirder than that, like weird positions that people have been getting into, floor work that goes in strange directions and things like that.
50:43
SPEAKER_04: And so for me as a choreographer, I would much rather see other choreographers challenge themselves.
50:49
SPEAKER_04: So instead of doing the round off back handspring pass, you want to put in some sort of like acrobatic or you know, weight shifting, challenging movement, do that instead of the round off backhand spring.
50:59
SPEAKER_04: Play around, try and find something that's different, that's gonna be in a new shape that I haven't seen before that I'm gonna go, whoa, like how did that person do that?
51:05
SPEAKER_04: That's to me like so much more interesting.
51:07
SPEAKER_04: And it shows that that dancer and that teacher have worked together to find new kinds of strength, new kinds of weight shifting.
51:14
SPEAKER_04: That's not just okay, then you throw your round off back hand spring, then you do your fouette turns, and then you throw your primary.
51:19
SPEAKER_04: Like and that's a dance.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: And chances are, and chances are it references a different technique because as you were just talking about all of that, Chloe, I think of inversions in modern and being upside down.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: Right, give me some gaga.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: Right.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: That is, but but like, you know, an inversion or being upside down is not an acrobatic technique, in my opinion.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it yes, it references and it's very similar, so we could be splitting hairs at this point, but depending on how you are getting in and out of the movement is referencing a whole different genre.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
51:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that that's what's so lovely in a sense, also good and bad with fusion of styles.
51:55
SPEAKER_02: However, you know, if you are such a strong acrobatic dancer and you've accomplished all of these great acrobatic skills, now you're kind of learning inversions and fusing that within your modern dance to blend a perfect harmony of a contemporary trick that's new and innovative, where you've blended those two techniques to showcase your strength and showcase that, oh, I learned this cool inversion in modern class.
52:21
SPEAKER_02: How can I transition in and out of this to make this my own and to make this something that no one's seen before?
52:27
SPEAKER_02: Because that is definitely something that's really exciting.
52:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously that we're speaking more on the advanced level of dancer at this point because you would have had to already have achieved your acrobatic success in your backhand springs or in your aerials or whatever it is, or in your handstand balances and elbow stands.
52:43
SPEAKER_02: You've accomplished those.
52:44
SPEAKER_02: Now we're trying to figure out how to make it artistically fulfilling and connect the steps to make it new and different.
52:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
52:50
SPEAKER_04: And I think if anyone listening is confused about maybe like what these kind of things look like, a choreographer that does this really well is Sabrina Phillips.
52:58
SPEAKER_04: She's based in LA, and you can go to her Instagram.
53:00
SPEAKER_04: She used to teach at Edge before it closed and at IAF before it closed as well.
53:04
SPEAKER_04: But I think she does a really good job of that.
53:06
SPEAKER_04: And she has incredible classic jazz training, incredible modern training, incredible ballet training.
53:10
SPEAKER_04: And she has gotten really great at creating those things.
53:13
SPEAKER_04: So if people are listening and they're like, I have no idea what they mean by these inversions and stuff, that's a good example that if you look at her Instagram, there's tons of videos of cool stuff that she creates because she's a genius.
53:22
SPEAKER_02: We'll definitely add a link in the show notes to her Instagram so everyone could go stalk and look at her beautiful acrobatic transitions in her dances.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: Great, y'all.
53:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, this discussion is was so great and so important, I think, that hopefully we helped clarify a lot of different things in this episode as far as genre placement and expectations in those genres.
53:43
SPEAKER_02: So I'm really glad at how much we discussed.
53:45
SPEAKER_02: So yay to that.
53:47
SPEAKER_02: And uh sadly we're nearing the end.
53:49
SPEAKER_02: But I would love, like we always do, we always have our guests lead us out with, you know, anything relating to the topic that final thoughts that you'd like to share to the listeners, to the teachers, to the dancers, any words of encouragement or advice as to how to navigate properly placing your dances this season.
54:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think, you know, the best thing that you can do is if you need help, ask.
54:11
SPEAKER_04: You know, ask your coworkers, ask another choreographer that you know, do a little bit of personal research.
54:16
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, number two would just be that judges always appreciate cleanliness and appropriateness.
54:22
SPEAKER_04: So those two things should also be important and can help you categorize appropriately by making sure that you stay within those kind of boundaries that can help you categorize as well.
54:32
SPEAKER_00: I love that you said ask for help because that was going to be what I would have.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, that's great.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you said that.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: But I'm going to go back to one thing that Courtney said and is to start asking yourself as a choreographer questions about what your intention is with the piece.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's jazz, contemporary, acro, open, lyrical, whatever, what is the intention with the piece?
54:59
SPEAKER_00: Are you starting with music?
55:00
SPEAKER_00: If it is the music, then what are you trying to say with the music and movement together?
55:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think once you start asking these kinds of questions and taking a look and don't be afraid to experiment and fail and you know fall down and get back up.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: Like that's the whole beauty of the journey of choreography.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: But once you start asking these questions, it's gonna, you're gonna get answers just from the movement.
55:25
SPEAKER_00: And it's not gonna be something that anyone, a judge, has to tell you.
55:28
SPEAKER_00: You'll know immediately if you've achieved what you were trying to or not.
55:35
SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for joining us for this week's episode all about correctly categorizing your dances at competition.
55:41
SPEAKER_02: You can find our guests on social media.
55:43
SPEAKER_02: Chloe at Chloe Roberts Dance, and Josh at Sally Works.
55:47
SPEAKER_03: Make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Amazon Podcast so you don't miss out on our upcoming episodes releasing every Thursday throughout the dance season.
55:57
SPEAKER_02: Hello on my solo stuff.
55:59
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56:17
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56:25
SPEAKER_03: Season two is in full swing with new topics, great advice, and amazing interviews.
56:30
SPEAKER_03: Coming up in the next few weeks, topics include the October edition of QA with Courtney, filmed live, gender in the dance studio, and self tape advice for virtual submissions.
56:40
SPEAKER_02: As always, we're so happy you joined us for this week's episode.
56:43
SPEAKER_02: Until next time, keep dancing.