Latest / Gimbal Podcast / Meet YouTube’s Most In-Demand Producer

Transcript

Meet YouTube’s Most In-Demand Producer · Gimbal Podcast

• 0:00
  My hot take for YouTube is, if you think you can win alone on a good idea, you're wrong.
• 0:06
  Why do you think nobody else does this?
• 0:08
  Good execution is the secret to success.
• 0:11
  I'm one of the leading experts in all things production.
• 0:13
  I've worked with Mr.
• 0:15
  Beast, BuzzFeed, Kai Sinat, Law by Mike.
• 0:18
  Rayma, I am so excited to speak with you today because, firstly, you've just got so much energy, but you've also got so much credibility in this industry.
• 0:26
  How did you get hired at Mr.
• 0:27
  Beast?
• 0:28
  Mr.
• 0:28
  Beast.
• 0:28
  I literally just applied.
• 0:30
  They accepted the application at the same time I was already starting with BuzzFeed.
• 0:35
  So I said, hey, this thing is just a three-month contract.
• 0:38
  Let me call you back in three months.
• 0:40
  Two months into my contract, BuzzFeed lets me go because their entire main channel just discombobulates and blows up.
• 0:47
  I call that same recruiter at Mr.
• 0:48
  Beast back.
• 0:49
  Hey, you guys still looking for somebody?
• 0:51
  They said, we're not looking for anyone on main channel anymore.
• 0:54
  What if you were a producer for this new TikTok team we're building?
• 0:58
  And at that time, I did not have TikTok downloaded my phone.
• 1:01
  I knew nothing about shorts.
• 1:03
  I barely knew what a short was.
• 1:04
  And I said, oh, yeah, I love TikTok.
• 1:06
  That's so amazing.
• 1:07
  I would be perfect at that role.
• 1:09
  They fly me out to North Carolina.
• 1:11
  I just fake it until I make it.
• 1:14
  I pretend like I know these retention details.
• 1:17
  I try to learn and absorb as much information of what I could do to help.
• 1:21
  A strong producer is not only really, really good at logistics.
• 1:25
  Yes, we get the sumo wrestler.
• 1:26
  Yes, we get the location.
• 1:28
  Yes, we handle this insurance.
• 1:29
  But a good producer also knows good retention.
• 1:33
  And so at Mr.
• 1:33
  Beast, what I showed a lot is I didn't just get...
• 1:37
  the sumo wrestling dojo but i made sure hey does the floor of the dojo look super clear and simple to understand is this going to be a good visual hook for the viewers is the sumo wrestler we're getting is this the most interesting guy that i could possibly find and they saw that value and i think that's shying through more than any experience or why i was beating these other guys who have 20 some years of experience
• 2:02
  Within three months, they promoted me from producer to head of production for shorts.
• 2:07
  What's the difference between those two roles?
• 2:09
  The difference is a producer is man on the ground.
• 2:13
  They're getting the supplies.
• 2:14
  They're hiring the cast.
• 2:16
  They're doing whatever, whatever.
• 2:17
  Head of production is managing six projects at a time.
• 2:22
  Like...
• 2:22
  They have, you know, six, some producers reporting to them, each working on their own individual video.
• 2:27
  And you have me at the top head of production where I'm making sure all the wheels are spinning that we've thought through the problem of like, oh, my God.
• 2:35
  Oh, the government of Dubai doesn't want us to climb the Burj Khalifa.
• 2:41
  Rayma, can you get on the phone with them?
• 2:42
  Can you convince them on how to?
• 2:44
  It's very much like high level problem solving on multiple different projects.
• 2:49
  What does that mean as far as like how much content were you responsible for outputting?
• 2:54
  Everything posted between August of 2022 to August of 2023.
• 3:01
  And in that you have things like the most liked video on the internet, which is will you fly to Paris and get me a baguette?
• 3:08
  I love that video.
• 3:09
  Yeah.
• 3:09
  Yeah, we flew a kid to South Africa to Petachita.
• 3:15
  All of those videos from that period, I don't know what couple hundred or however many, me and my team were responsible for.
• 3:21
  I want to ask you this question.
• 3:22
  What happened at the Mr.
• 3:24
  Beast team if a video underperformed expectations?
• 3:28
  Did you continue to try and improve the video post-upload?
• 3:31
  We would have production meetings after on how could production have improved the casting or how could a production have made this background look more clean, which would have led to more retention.
• 3:41
  All of those retention data points are important for a producer to improve as well.
• 3:46
  Of like the content creation process, which parts were you or are you now like part of and then which parts are you not?
• 3:54
  Everybody's idea of what a role is, is completely different.
• 3:58
  So one YouTube channel might have a producer doing creative and editing and production.
• 4:03
  And another one might just have someone focus on the logistics.
• 4:07
  If I'm putting it in a pipeline, you have creative where the video is ideated.
• 4:11
  It's approved.
• 4:12
  It's written.
• 4:13
  That moves to production where I live, where I get a finished script.
• 4:18
  I'm going to figure out, okay, how much is this going to cost?
• 4:21
  Who, what crew do I need to hire to make it?
• 4:23
  What props do I need?
• 4:24
  What people do I need?
• 4:25
  What insurance do I need?
• 4:26
  What permits do I need?
• 4:27
  How can I schedule this out so we get as much done for as little as possible?
• 4:31
  We film the day.
• 4:32
  I pass all that off to the editor and I worry about the next project.
• 4:36
  And then you see it online and you're like, oh, yeah, I worked on that 30 days ago.
• 4:39
  And I'm so glad to see it's the most liked TikTok in the world.
• 4:43
  Exactly.
• 4:43
  Yeah.
• 4:44
  I know like at Mr.
• 4:45
  Beast, they do like per platform.
• 4:47
  But like, does that get repurposed in any way?
• 4:49
  It depends where a lot of times we will put something out that's just for YouTube.
• 4:55
  We'll put something out that's just for TikTok, something that's just for Instagram.
• 4:59
  And then you have multi-purpose content that could flow and succeed on all three of them.
• 5:03
  It just it just depends on the concept.
• 5:05
  And a lot of times those are completely separate teams where it's funny.
• 5:09
  Some creatives will just understand YouTube and YouTube shorts.
• 5:13
  And then you have some that really understand internet culture and what will succeed on TikTok and Instagram.
• 5:18
  What would you say is like the differences between each of the platforms?
• 5:22
  To me, the difference is TikTok and Instagram is a lot more, it feels like a conversational beast, almost of what is relevant and what can be shared or what is in the moment of pop culture or conversation.
• 5:39
  That's what succeeds on TikTok.
• 5:42
  Versus YouTube, it's very different where a TikTok that I made five years ago will probably not do well today because that trend or that experience or that conversation is past.
• 5:54
  YouTube, a lot of times the content that does really, really well is evergreen things where there's a lot of stuff I'm very, very confident about five years ago that if I posted it today, it would probably do just as well.
• 6:06
  Do you think there's a difference between like TikTok and Instagram?
• 6:08
  There is, but they're closer together.
• 6:12
  Like Instagram, the more shareable the content is, the more likely it'll succeed.
• 6:18
  Why that's still important on TikTok.
• 6:21
  It's less so.
• 6:22
  Is there a risk to actually posting something that's optimized for one social media platform onto another?
• 6:28
  I think it depends on where your brand is.
• 6:31
  Like if I were just starting out, I would post on literally everything because you don't know what might catch fire and where.
• 6:39
  And so versus established creator, if you know your brand on YouTube and what they like, some of the trends and concepts that you want to travel in these other platforms, we know it's a waste of time to post this on YouTube.
• 6:53
  It's interesting because I come from the educational side of YouTube and social media, and there are very few instances where posting something on Instagram is going to harm cross-posting it on TikTok.
• 7:03
  Because generally speaking, like the brands that I've worked with all talk about the same things on all platforms.
• 7:08
  So there's a lot of alignment.
• 7:10
  Maybe the audience is slightly different and there is some subtle nuances, but it's interesting to hear maybe in the entertainment space or maybe just in my neck of the woods, it doesn't make sense to post on YouTube shorts or it doesn't make sense to post on TikTok.
• 7:21
  But I get it.
• 7:22
  I get it.
• 7:23
  A lot of creators I work with, they have multiple teams.
• 7:27
  Like you have someone that specializes really good at TikTok videos or Instagram videos, and you have someone who's really, really good at what kind of content will work on YouTube.
• 7:37
  How did you communicate with those teams?
• 7:38
  Or did you when you were doing production?
• 7:40
  Were you talking to the YouTube team saying, how do we optimize this?
• 7:43
  How I would communicate is I'm someone who understands retention and data, but I also understand logistics.
• 7:49
  And so sometimes it'll be, hey, this $7,000 car crash that you want to do at the beginning of this short, it is not going to have the value add that you think it will where that money will make sense.
• 8:00
  And so a lot of times I'm saying, no, this is dumb.
• 8:03
  This is stupid.
• 8:04
  This is not worth the second cost.
• 8:06
  Because to me, from a production standpoint, and I'd encourage a lot of producers to think like this, if we have a set budget, let's say that's $10,000 for video, if we have an idea, Creative has an idea that's going to cost $30,000, my question back to them is not just a no that's out of budget.
• 8:22
  Is this going to get three times the amount of views?
• 8:24
  Because if it's not, why would we not just spend $10,000 on a concept we know will work?
• 8:29
  Those are a lot of my conversation is I have to be the responsible adult in the room.
• 8:34
  And also a producer is probably like the supervillain of any YouTube team.
• 8:39
  I'm serious.
• 8:40
  I'm serious.
• 8:41
  Because you have to say no to everyone.
• 8:44
  Like you have to say no to creative.
• 8:47
  We're not doing this.
• 8:48
  We're not going to have three cars for you to roll down a cliff.
• 8:50
  We're going to have two because you're only going to need one shot maximum, like two of those.
• 8:54
  You have to say no to the director on site.
• 8:57
  You got your shot.
• 8:58
  We need to move on or we're going to lose money on this project.
• 9:01
  You have to say no to your crew.
• 9:03
  No, I'm not going to pay you a million dollars for this project.
• 9:05
  These are the rates.
• 9:06
  These are the budget.
• 9:07
  You did this last time.
• 9:08
  Can you do this like this again?
• 9:10
  Yeah.
• 9:10
  I think like all the producers that are too nice are just not doing their jobs well.
• 9:14
  No, honestly.
• 9:15
  And that's the sad part.
• 9:17
  But you know what?
• 9:18
  When I worked at places like Mr.
• 9:20
  Beast and other places around that time, I used to be a lot more of a mean producer where I thought that's just how you had to get things done.
• 9:28
  But I realized that there's a way of, I call it gracious honesty.
• 9:33
  I tell people what's possible and not.
• 9:35
  But I give a lot of logic and reasoning behind it where it doesn't have to be anything personal.
• 9:41
  Did you ever say no to Jimmy Donaldson himself?
• 9:44
  Yes, I have had to.
• 9:46
  It's mainly just we don't have time for this or we have to move on to something else if you want to shoot blank.
• 9:52
  And that's most of the time with creators where you put it on their plate.
• 9:55
  I like to give ultimatums where it's like, hey, if you spend two more minutes on this $10,000 project, we have to completely cut this $60,000 project and this 100 person cast and crew that we have planned for 3 p.m.
• 10:10
  That probably wins them over.
• 10:11
  You probably get your way when you say it like that.
• 10:13
  No, it depends.
• 10:14
  You'd be surprised.
• 10:15
  And that's where a lot of producers that come from traditional entertainment, they're coming over and they're not realizing where the priorities lie with these creators.
• 10:24
  Because if we're working on this $10,000 bit or scene that all of a sudden the creator feels very confident this is what's going to perform the best.
• 10:33
  You'd be surprised.
• 10:34
  A lot of these guys don't care about leaving this the rest of the day that they spent tons and tons of money on.
• 10:39
  And I've learned it's not my decision to make.
• 10:42
  I can only present to you what the situation is.
• 10:46
  You make your decision.
• 10:47
  Okay, so you manage like time budget and money budget.
• 10:51
  Yeah, I think people don't realize the value in that.
• 10:55
  Like I think a producer is the unsung hero of YouTube in any industry.
• 11:01
  My hot take for YouTube is a good idea is not the most important thing.
• 11:05
  Good execution is the secret to success.
• 11:08
  You could have the best idea in the world, right?
• 11:12
  We just produced a show.
• 11:13
  The first episode just came out.
• 11:15
  It's called Milkmaid.
• 11:16
  This show idea was, hey, let's have a professional female basketball player challenge all the cocky guys that think they could be any woman in basketball.
• 11:25
  Amazing show.
• 11:26
  Amazing idea.
• 11:27
  That show would not work.
• 11:28
  The first episode, brand new account has 1.5 million views on Instagram right now.
• 11:33
  That show would not work if we did not cast the right person.
• 11:38
  You know, I spent three months casting the perfect, cocky, so good at basketball, knows how to do all these tricks.
• 11:46
  The series just would not work if we did not execute good.
• 11:50
  And I'm not saying I'm the reason for success or this, but if you think you can win alone on a good idea, you're wrong.
• 11:57
  In YouTube, they always say like it's the idea that's the most important.
• 12:00
  But in business, they always say like the idea doesn't matter.
• 12:03
  Just share it freely because it's like there's so much that goes into it afterwards.
• 12:08
  That's great.
• 12:09
  That's great.
• 12:09
  Like people are always like really protective of their ideas because like, oh, someone's going to steal it.
• 12:14
  But then it's like it takes so much work to take that idea into production and making your millions of dollars or whatever that like just share it because no one's going to execute it.
• 12:24
  Yeah, they can't.
• 12:25
  They can't do it like you.
• 12:26
  You spent some time working with Jimmy Donaldson, Mr.
• 12:29
  Beast, you know, some of his elite crew as well.
• 12:32
  What are some characteristics that you see in them that helped you improve?
• 12:37
  What made them great?
• 12:38
  I looked around and I saw people that worked so hard and cared so deeply about what they were making that it inspired me to kick it into high gear and do 250% of what I can bring to the table.
• 12:55
  If they're going to sit in a writer's room for days, for weeks, for months, like crafting the perfect creative, I'm not going to let that slip by.
• 13:04
  I'm going to deliver the absolute best product I can.
• 13:07
  Can you give me an example of a time where you put in the extra effort to make something amazing?
• 13:13
  I have a real disdain and hate for faking anything.
• 13:18
  I have a seven-year-old son.
• 13:19
  I have a three-year-old daughter where if they see something and they think it's real, me, the one making the videos, I want to make sure what they're seeing is actually genuine.
• 13:29
  And so sometimes I'll go to extremes of, there's this one video shoot for a creator where we had to approach strangers in a restaurant and we were doing this with a brand where the brand had to do background checks
• 13:43
  on anyone that was possibly going to be in the video.
• 13:46
  And we were going to send this couple on like a surprise date, whatever.
• 13:51
  How can you possibly not fake that?
• 13:53
  If you're approaching strangers like, hey, do you want to go on a mystery date?
• 13:56
  Hey, do you want to go on a mystery date?
• 13:57
  Hey, do you want to go on a mystery date?
• 13:58
  You send someone on a mystery date.
• 14:00
  Everyone needs to be background checked.
• 14:01
  How can that possibly not be faked?
• 14:03
  I'm determined to make it real.
• 14:05
  So what I did, the extra mile, no one asked me to do this.
• 14:09
  I put out flyers for this restaurant that we're going to film it at.
• 14:12
  Hey, if you want to have a free, you get a free dinner.
• 14:16
  If you do a free photography session with this restaurant, right?
• 14:20
  I have a whole bunch of people sign up.
• 14:22
  I get all the people schedule times in for that day of when they're going to get their free photo shoot at the restaurant.
• 14:28
  I run background checks on all of them.
• 14:31
  Send that to the brand.
• 14:32
  We shoot.
• 14:33
  We show up today.
• 14:34
  Everyone, they think the photographer is running late.
• 14:36
  They're just enjoying their meal.
• 14:37
  We shoot with, I think, 12 different people.
• 14:40
  They're all background check.
• 14:42
  But simultaneously, they have no idea about this video we're doing.
• 14:45
  I don't know if I explained that right, but that's me.
• 14:49
  Yeah, I mean, and it sounded like you could have played it easily and just found somebody.
• 14:53
  You could have cast somebody with an acting agency or someone that was familiar to the production.
• 14:57
  But no, you wanted to go above and beyond.
• 14:59
  And I assume you saw that in the final video as well, right?
• 15:02
  The authenticity came across.
• 15:04
  Of course, you see you see the authenticity where I think a genuine reaction versus a faked reaction like viewers aren't stupid like they can tell real from fake.
• 15:15
  And that's something I hold dearly with everything I do.
• 15:18
  Okay, let's move on from Mr.
• 15:20
  Beast in your resume.
• 15:21
  You moved to Dallas, Texas to work with TBNR.
• 15:26
  Yes, Preston Plays and Brianna.
• 15:28
  Yeah, I took that job only because they wanted to hire me as a director, which I'm someone who constantly loves challenges.
• 15:36
  Up to this point in my career, I'd only done production.
• 15:39
  And so the idea of a director role, the idea of managing the creative, the production, the editing, it was exciting to me because I didn't know if I could do it or not.
• 15:47
  Their socials team only had two employees at the time.
• 15:51
  I quickly came in.
• 15:52
  I'm really good at assessing problems and solutions.
• 15:55
  I was like, okay, this producer is actually a creative.
• 15:58
  You need to move him fully to writing.
• 16:00
  We need to get a producer and a PA on.
• 16:02
  We need to hire another writer so we can keep up this output.
• 16:04
  We're putting out three videos a week.
• 16:06
  It should be more like one video a week.
• 16:09
  because what I'm seeing is one of those three is succeeding.
• 16:13
  The other two are just slop that we're wasting our time on.
• 16:16
  I made all of these changes over the course of six months, increased their average viewership from 1 million views per video to 10 million views per video.
• 16:25
  Basically made it where this is my fault.
• 16:27
  I build up teams so well where I'm just not necessary.
• 16:30
  Like I had the perfect writing production editing team where I didn't see a need for me.
• 16:38
  They had it covered.
• 16:39
  And so Preston said, hey, can you do the same thing for my long form?
• 16:42
  I did that for six months.
• 16:43
  Once again, six months go by and I'm like, bro, I'm not needed.
• 16:47
  I keep working myself out of a job.
• 16:49
  I thought I'd done everything that I could at TVNR, one of the best companies ever.
• 16:53
  I've ever worked with.
• 16:54
  I think my favorite creator to work with.
• 16:55
  Moved on to doing a lot of freelance.
• 16:57
  Just had an epiphany this year of, I'm tired of working with creators.
• 17:02
  You never know what's going to change in the YouTube algorithms or this business structure.
• 17:09
  It's not reliable.
• 17:10
  I'm going to start my own business.
• 17:12
  And I see a gap in the market.
• 17:13
  Where the gap in the market is, everybody and their mama is saying they're a creative agency.
• 17:19
  And they know how to make you a viral video.
• 17:22
  But what I see what's happening now is these agencies get a million dollars from Netflix or a million dollars from Cheerios or whatever.
• 17:30
  And suddenly they have to scramble to figure out how to actually produce what we said we were going to do.
• 17:36
  That's where my company comes in, where Flat Top Productions just focuses on everything after the script is written.
• 17:43
  casting, insurance, permits, logistics.
• 17:47
  We do everything so you have a great shoot, go right into editing.
• 17:51
  And what I'm learning is it's a teaching space where I feel like YouTube is getting so big.
• 17:58
  We can't keep acting like this is the wild, wild west anymore.
• 18:02
  Like we need to know how to permit things properly.
• 18:06
  We need to know, oh, everyone on set needs to have workers comp.
• 18:10
  And so we're,
• 18:11
  I feel very excited right now where me and my team can just focus on teaching and building logistics.
• 18:16
  Can you describe like your typical client?
• 18:19
  Is it like big brands or smaller creators?
• 18:22
  That's a good...
• 18:23
  It's so varied where I worked on a several hundred thousand dollar show with Cash App and iShow Speed a couple months ago.
• 18:32
  But then I'll have a smaller $5,000 shoot with a power bank company like Jackery.
• 18:40
  Like it's very varied where what's cool about a freelance production company is no matter how small or big the idea, we can scale up and down with you.
• 18:51
  Where are some resources that producers can look to learn more about those kinds of things?
• 18:55
  Like if they don't even know the things that they need because our industry is a wild, wild west, where you look?
• 19:01
  As I was dealing with all my imposter syndrome and how do I do this, I read a lot of books where as much crap that YouTubers love to get on about traditional media, they have 100 plus years of experience on how to do this the most efficient and successful way.
• 19:19
  One of my favorite books is called Creating Reality, and it's all about this producer.
• 19:25
  Yeah, this producer and how to navigate through reality TV.
• 19:28
  There's so much goodness in that book and so many others that we can apply to these platforms.
• 19:34
  I love that.
• 19:35
  Someone that we interviewed a couple of months ago said something similar about learning from people from traditional media.
• 19:42
  She said that people in traditional are just as eager to learn about the YouTube side of things than,
• 19:47
  So she felt more confident reaching out to someone like the executive of The Bachelor because she actually had some value to bring to those people.
• 19:54
  This is what's super interesting is we're in a weird space where when I first got in the industry, none of these traditional producers wanted anything to do with me.
• 20:02
  YouTube is trash and pathetic and it's not even real content.
• 20:07
  Now you all of a sudden have all of these super talented people with all of this knowledge that are so eager for work and to learn more about, you know, the future of media.
• 20:20
  And so actually, I prefer hiring people under me that come from traditional backgrounds that I could learn off of than a YouTuber that might, sorry, a YouTube producer that might cause me a liability lawsuit in a couple of months.
• 20:34
  I'm serious.
• 20:35
  I get it.
• 20:36
  I get it.
• 20:36
  I believe you.
• 20:37
  How is the new venture going so far?
• 20:39
  What's tough about it?
• 20:40
  What's rewarding about it?
• 20:42
  Let's start with the good.
• 20:43
  What's rewarding is the freedom of being able to work with people that I like working with.
• 20:51
  And if someone isn't a good isn't a good fit, I could say, sorry, no, thanks.
• 20:56
  This was fun, but I want to do something else now.
• 20:59
  That freedom of choosing what projects and work to say yes and no to is very rewarding where I've never been in that situation.
• 21:06
  The bad part is there's nothing else that exists like my production company.
• 21:12
  There is no production company that just focuses on logistics.
• 21:16
  And so trying to teach people where in their minds, it's okay, why would I just hire you instead of hiring a full-time producer?
• 21:24
  Okay, well, because when you hire a company to run a production, you have people that can do...
• 21:31
  payroll and insurance and liability.
• 21:34
  And I have a whole company to rely on.
• 21:37
  I have three employees, you know, two producers.
• 21:41
  I have an operations manager where we can all rely on each other for resources and problems to solve versus
• 21:49
  An individual employee, you have to train up and you have to spend time interviewing and firing.
• 21:55
  And people right now, they don't get that difference.
• 21:58
  And so selling myself has been really hard because there's no one else that kind of resembles what we do.
• 22:05
  And it's like everyone I sell to, I also have to teach them.
• 22:09
  Why do you think nobody else does this?
• 22:11
  Why do you have no competition?
• 22:13
  Because most people that are really, really good at production at a very, very high level, in my opinion, there's not that many of us right now.
• 22:22
  People that are really, really good at production and really, really good at managing high budgets, they come from traditional media backgrounds.
• 22:30
  where they're still learning the platform.
• 22:32
  They're still learning and growing.
• 22:33
  So I don't think any other producer has done this because there's not a lot that can even operate at that scale.
• 22:41
  That's one.
• 22:42
  And then I think two is brands, they want the full package.
• 22:47
  They want someone that can offer creative production editing.
• 22:50
  And so I think when a lot of people are starting their own company, they think they need to capture everything.
• 22:55
  They need to do everything to appease these brands and clients.
• 22:58
  But what I think from everyone that I've ever hired in my life, I like hiring niche people.
• 23:04
  I like hiring people that are really, really good at one specific thing.
• 23:07
  And so I'm banking on, and I don't know if this is the case or not, I'm banking on the success that
• 23:13
  When people think production, when people think I need to hire a producer, I need logistics for this project.
• 23:18
  I want them to think of a flat top.
• 23:20
  And I think we're we're the pioneer in that field right now.
• 23:23
  I love it.
• 23:24
  You're positioning yourself for a busier, more specialized industry where Hollywood and YouTube merge and people who have YouTube experience are the ones who come out on top.
• 23:36
  That's that's what I think.
• 23:37
  Right now, there's enough creative agencies.
• 23:40
  There's a million and one creative agencies that say they can solve all your problems.
• 23:44
  Me making another one of those is not valuable to anyone.
• 23:48
  My last question to all of my guests is the same.
• 23:50
  And that is who is a creator that's on your radar right now that is worthy of a shout out?
• 23:55
  There's this guy that I just found literally yesterday.
• 23:59
  Zandland.
• 24:00
  Have you heard of Zandland?
• 24:01
  Never heard of Zandland.
• 24:03
  He makes these really interesting documentaries.
• 24:07
  They just started a year ago.
• 24:09
  He does these deep dives into these really, really interesting like cultures or peoples.
• 24:15
  It's very like tasteful pieces that are really, really interesting.
• 24:19
  It reminds me of like, you got to watch the movie Tickled.
• 24:21
  I forget that guy's name.
• 24:23
  Watch the movie Tickled.
• 24:24
  One of the best documentaries I've ever seen.
• 24:27
  Zan Land reminds me of that.
• 24:28
  Thank you so much for watching or listening to this episode.
• 24:31
  If you're new here, please consider subscribing or leaving us a review on the audio platforms.
• 24:34
  It helps us as a very new show.
• 24:36
  If you want to check out another episode, just look through our library.
• 24:39
  It's starting to build up.
• 24:40
  We're at like 40 episodes now.
• 24:42
  And we have a new one coming out every single Thursday.
• 24:44
  So thank you for being here.
• 24:45
  And I will see you then.