Latest / Wake Up with Marci / Inside One of the World’s Most Exclusive Addiction Treatment Centers | Anthony O’Brien

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Inside One of the World’s Most Exclusive Addiction Treatment Centers | Anthony O’Brien · Wake Up with Marci

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: When I was 15, like this sense of embarrassment and
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: sense of like fear that was in me. And of course,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: when I picked up alcohol when I was 15, that disappeared. Mm-hmm.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: It was out like that was gone. No, I could mix. No,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I could be at the disco. I could dance. I
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: could go and I could ask a girl to dance.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: All that, this imaginary light that was shining. I thought
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: everybody was looking at me. That was gone. Alcohol switched
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: that off. And it was like, yeah, just do what
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: you want to do. Let's go. But the other side
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: of it is I was in trouble straight away. I mean,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: at 16 and 17, my family tried to intervene.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: What does one of the world's most exclusive private treatment
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: centers know about addiction and mental health that the rest
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: of us should know? Today, we're going inside Rose Glass
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Recovery in Ireland, where treatment looks very different from what
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: many of us imagine when we hear the word rehab.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Treatment is private, highly individualized, and built around one person
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: with intensive one-on-one care designed to understand not only the
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: addiction or mental health issue, but what's underneath it. Trauma, anxiety, depression, stress, shame.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: the emotional and psychological patterns that may have been there
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: a long time before someone reached a crisis. And joining
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: me today is Anthony O'Brien, therapist and director of therapy
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: services of Rose Glass Recovery. Anthony has spent more than
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: 20 years working in addiction treatment internationally, but he also
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: understands recovery personally. Anthony has been in recovery himself for
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: more than 36 years. Today, he's taking us inside Rose
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Glass to understand what this level of individualized treatment actually
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: looks like, why treating the underlying issues matter, and what
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: helps someone build lasting recovery when they return to everyday life.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Whether you're struggling yourself, worried about someone you love, or
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: simply want to understand what's really possible when someone gets
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: the right help, stay with me. This is a conversation
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: you don't want to miss. Welcome Anthony to Wake Up
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: With Marcy. I'm so grateful you're here.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me and thanks
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: for inviting me.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. So Anthony, you now are a therapist and you're
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: helping people in recovery, but you yourself have your own
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: recovery story. Can you take us back and share with
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: us like What was happening for you? Let's just start
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: where you started to notice that alcohol was becoming something
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: that was affecting your life in a negative way.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was kind of like, as I look back
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: at it, I was working. Sometimes I'd work in the
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: UK and London. Sometimes I'd work in the USA. Sometimes
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I'd work in Ireland. I was in construction. I was
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: an electrician. And it was like just jumping around to
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: these places. And I was jumping, expecting to find something.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: But wherever I went, what was central was the bar,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: the pub, drinking. That was the biggest part. Wherever, you know,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: in them places, if you wanted to find me, it's
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: the pubs I used to drink. That's what I would
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: tell you. So I knew I was drinking. I was
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: drinking way more than I should have been drinking. And,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: of course, what I did do is I would stop.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: So there would be periods of time that I would
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: just stop. You know, something would happen and I would
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: stop for a while. Then I'd go again. Then I'd stop.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: And then I'd keep telling myself it's going to be different.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: So I was hopping along just like just doing that.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: And I was, you know, really, really in a place
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: where I was becoming really lonely, really isolated. Even though
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I was in crowds and pubs, I was just lonely
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: in a crowd, which is a really, really, you know,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: difficult place to be.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Now, when you say lonely, would you say, even though
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: you were out, would you say you were stuck like
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: in a shame cycle, if you will?
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like the message was in my head is like,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: this is not what I planned. You know, when I
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: look at my parents and the way they brought me
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: up and, you know, what they were, they weren't addicts,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: they weren't drinking too much. There was a bit of
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: drinking in the family, wider family of it. but like
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: they didn't raise me that way. And I like something had,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: you know, something wasn't right. I had this, I was,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I was ill at ease from it. And I was
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: just looking and I was just, I knew this thing
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: of going around. That's what I was.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Would you say you were drinking or you started drinking
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: because of any sort of trauma or you were trying
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: to numb something in your life?
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Well, the, the initially when I was 15, when I was,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: it was like this, sense of embarrassment and sense of
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: like fear that was in me. And of course, when
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I picked up alcohol, when I was 15, that disappeared.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: That was out, like that was gone. No, I could mix. No,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I could be at the disco. I could dance. I
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: could go and I could ask a girl to dance.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: All that, this imaginary light that was shining, I thought
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: everybody was looking at me. That was gone. Alcohol switched
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: that off and it was like, yeah, just do what
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: you want to do. So definitely. So it was very
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: much there. So it very much, it took the fear
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: away and it gave me, whoa, this is great. Yeah.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Let's go. But the other side of it is I
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: was in trouble straight away. I mean, at 16 and 17,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: my family tried to intervene.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow. So would you say that you were addicted
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: right away, that your body just quickly became addicted to
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: the substance?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Hmm. Yeah, quickly, to the substance and the effect of it,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: the freedom of it.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the freedom.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Take me away from this place. Of course, I could
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: see it was taking me away from the embarrassment, but
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: it was the other things then, the shame, the fear. Yeah.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: In my head, it was telling me I'm not good enough.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: You can't do it. You won't be able to do it. No,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: don't kid yourself.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Where do you think that came from? Was that just
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: simply being a young person or did it come from somewhere?
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: It's like a lot of it... You know, it was
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: just at the times when we grow up, like growing up,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: you know, don't speak, don't talk back, you know, like
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: don't talk to your elders, don't talk this, don't. So
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: there was a little bit of that in it where
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: you were just thinking where I'm. My sister, who passed
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: away a couple of years ago, we used to talk,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: we used to laugh. There was this woman, she used
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: to come to our house and Lily Switzer was her name.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: And Lily Switzer would come up once every six or
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: eight weeks. And there was biscuits for Liddy Switzer. And
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: we'd be saying, why is Liddy Switzer getting the nice biscuits?
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: And it was just that little thing, you know. So
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: you're a little bit outside of the action. And a
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: lot of this was in my own head then. I was, like, afraid.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I was just, like, even before I used to hold back.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right, right? We were to be seen,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: not heard. and that makes you smaller and smaller, and
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: it doesn't build your confidence. And that was the norm
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: for quite some time, right? I think generationally, it changes
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: how we raise our children. And today, we are giving
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: our children more of a voice. It empowers them. But
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: one of the things that you're saying, and it's so true,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: is that so many young people experiment with alcohol, and
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, it just gives this that
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: they never had, right? The inhibitions are gone and you
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: do feel like you have this strength all of a
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: sudden and it's so fun. But one of the things
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: that happens is that our brains are still developing, right?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: And it's one of the worst things we can do
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: is start drinking at a young age, but it's so normal.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing. I remember, Marcin, when I went
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: to London first, And I was on the first job.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I was on a construction job. And there was this
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: guy there. And I became friendly with him. And, you know,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: he was really good fun. And I remember we were
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: going to the bar for a drink. We were going
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: to the local pub. And I said to him, come on,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: we're going. He said, I don't drink. And I didn't
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: know anybody that didn't drink. Yeah, yeah. I was 21
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: years of age. I was like, he doesn't drink. I
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: didn't know anybody that didn't drink.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I didn't hang out with anybody that didn't drink.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: That was the thing. So I just like to be,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: to proceed, to not understand it.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So when did you decide that it was too much?
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: What happened for you?
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Well, it's like I went through my 20s and there
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: were like a blur. I mean, sometimes I'd be waking
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: up and thinking, am I in America? Am I in London?
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Am I, like, gone back to Ireland again? And I
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: was in this world and I was married and I
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: had two kids. And then there wasn't a lot of
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: work in Ireland at the time. And the guys are
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: going looking for work. Of course, I'd go looking for work,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: then I'd feel lonely about my family, and then I'd
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: start drinking. And then, so this, and this was just
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: going around in a circle. I remember one time in London,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I was planning for a couple of weeks, and I
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: was picking out the colours I would paint the walls
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: in my house when I'd go home for a couple
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: of weeks. So, of course, I went home, spent two
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: weeks in the pub, came back and drank for another
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: week in London, got fired from my job, even though
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: they took me back after once it settled down, but
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: So that's the way I was living. Everything. I lived
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: over a pub in the Harrow Road in London for
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: two and a half years.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: And it was it was just like it was made. Yeah.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: You were living in the bar, right?
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we lived. There was there was five twin rooms upstairs.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: And the worst joke at the weekend is to say.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: whoever was first up was best dressed because you know
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: what i mean and i remember one time a cousin
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: i'd gone down the city and bought a suit and
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: i and i came i was in the bar and
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: i looked and he was wearing my suit and he
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: was there it fits well and that's the way we
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: were living oh wow it's just crazy and just something
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: known at the back of my head that voice that
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: was saying, this isn't okay. But I would get away
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: from that voice as quick as I could and not
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: let it influence me in any way. So I was
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: desperately unhappy. And even in the finish, I used to
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: stop at a pub where I wasn't known. And it
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: was a very, very busy pub. And I used to
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: go in there and all I could see was the voices,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: people going, talking and a wall of noise. And I
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: was just sitting there on my own. Just completely lost.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: just completely lost thinking there must be another way.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: And did you decide just like one, one day, like
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: you're in the bar one night and you wake up
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: and like, I can't do this anymore.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I was saying it for a while because even in
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the lead up to it, I remember from, there was
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: something that happened in October of 89 and it was
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: my sister's birthday party. And I came home from London and,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: A friend of mine picked me up at the airport,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and we were a couple of hours from the airport.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: It was like 5 o'clock in the evening, and we
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: drank our way down. And I got into the bar
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: where the party was at, and the guy behind the
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: bar across from me knew me well. It was 20
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: past 10. And my son, who was then ages of age,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: was sitting up in a stool, and he had a
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: glass of Coke in front of him. And Richie looked
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: at me, and he said, Anthony, he said, he's sitting
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: there since 7 o'clock tonight. And he said, every time
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: the door opened, his head turned around to see what
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: was at you. So it's three hours for an eight-year-old
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: child to be waiting. And that hit me. That went in.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: So that was in my head, October, November, December. My
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: friend came home from Boston in December. I was saying
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: to him, I'm going to quit. And then in March,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: I was in London and I was on this job.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: And I told him, I'm going to give myself a
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: birthday present. I'm going home. I'm going to stop drinking.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going home. And it was weird even because I
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: went home. And I continued working in England short term
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: for a few months. And everybody in Ireland thought I
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: was drinking in England. And everybody in England thought I
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: was drinking in Ireland. Nobody thought I stopped.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Did you need help to stop? What did you do?
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: This is the thing where I learned that it's more
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: than about the alcohol. I stopped. And I just had
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: this determination. I don't want to live like this anymore.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Saw what I was doing to my two kids. And
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I said, I'm stopping. And I stopped. And I say
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: that was March 1998. And I didn't get any real, like,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: apart from my family and my mother, God rest her,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: trying to help me, it was an uncle of mine
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: who lived in the Channel Islands. He came to Ireland
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: in 1991, August 91, and he took me to my
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: foster meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. Then I understood, like, when
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I stopped drinking, I could see there was more drinking because, like,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: my head, there was no peace. Nothing. I was, like,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I was on overdrive. I was hyped up. You know,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: like if I hadn't gone down the route of going
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: through AA first and then getting therapy, there's no way
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I would have stayed sober. Yeah. I was just literally
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: just pure pig-headed determination. Yeah. And again, that way in
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the first few months, I started to look better, of course,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and physically kind of recover pretty quickly from it. Yeah.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: But it was inside. I was just a shell. And
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: it was just, I didn't know what to do.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: It is about rebuilding our lives after, right? And getting
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: our lives back.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Very much so. Very much so. Because that was the thing.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I was, like, when I look back at that time,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: in that time, I often look back and I laugh.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Because I used to walk in the sidewalks. I'd walk
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: on the edge of the road. So I'd go, everything
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: was go from A to B to C. Everything was Duke.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: just do that, do this, do this. And of course
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I was completely shut down. Yeah. Yeah.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: So the 12 steps that, that helped you in therapy.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Very, like very much so. It's like, so when,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: and when I went into the rooms at the start,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: and of course I could see people that I knew, people,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and we had a laugh and, you know, and I thought,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I feel part of something, you know, I can, I
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: can just feel like this is that I can sit
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and have a cup of coffee and talk and And, like,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: to give you an idea, like I mentioned about my uncle,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: it's not 100% correct because that summer I was in
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: America and there was a friend of mine. He said,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: let's go to a meeting. And, no, it was a
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: big meeting. It was like a meeting of 100 years
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: of sobriety. There was three guys telling their story. And
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I was standing. So there was, like, I think, I
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: estimated there was over 100 people there. And I was
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: standing at the edge of the room and there was
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: coffee and donuts at the other side of the room
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: and I couldn't walk across to get them. I was
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: just frozen against the wall and I just stood there.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: What were you feeling?
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Just overcoming anxiety, fear. Completely heart-pounding, sweating. Like they're just thinking, again,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: back to the 15-year-old that I ran away from. Yeah.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Stuff that was there at the beginning, the stuff where
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I thought this was imaginary light was shining upon me.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Here I was now, standing with that, 30 years of age,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and there is your light.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. I love that you're saying that because it's so true.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I think that when, where we start drinking, when we stop,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: we go back to that and then we have to heal.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: We have to truly heal instead of hiding and numbing
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: and pushing it all down. So what started changing for you?
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: And then when did you know that you wanted to
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: start giving back in the way that you do?
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: When I mentioned my uncle, my uncle Morris, God rest him,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: he died in December 2017. He was a huge influence
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: on me. He was a therapist as well. And I
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: saw the way he had the way of seeing things,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: the way I could go to him with anything. And
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: he would know, he would know what to say to me.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: And just there I could see, and I could see
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: the view he had of things. And And, you know,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: it's like just something there that ran into my head.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I remember being out with him one day with my dad,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: God rest him, my other uncle. They've all passed on.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: And they went to where they grew up. And Morris
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: took out his camera to take a photo, and he
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: dropped the camera, and it snapped. And he picked the
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: camera up, and he put it into the holster. And
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: then we went away, and he said something distracting, and
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: then went back to the car, and he took the
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: camera out. And I asked him afterwards, I said, why
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: did you wait? till you were in the car. And
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: he said, because I was too upset when it fell.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: So I just put it out of the way. He said, calm,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: I said, don't distract it. Saw that it wasn't the
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: biggest thing in the world like it was when it
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: fell and broke. And he said, in a couple of minutes,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: that's all it took. I was like, yeah, that's different. Yeah,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: that's different. That's different.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: And you were like, I want to live that way?
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. And it's just like little
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: things that he had Like that, he just had the
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: way about it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: So what did you do? Did you go back to school?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: What happened for you?
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: What I was doing then is, like, so I was
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: active in EA. My life was becoming, again, more settled.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I was starting to be a parent. I could be accountable.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I could be present. I started doing things. And then
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: I got this idea, well, is this what you really
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: want to be doing? You know, you left school at
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: 16 to be an electrician. It sounded good, and it's
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: good in many ways. But do you want to do
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: something else? And then I remember I went and talked
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: to Morris about it, and he said, well, what do
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: you want? Who do you want to be? What do
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: you want to do? Who do you want to be with?
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: You're growing up now. You're going to need to make
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: some decisions. And he said, your decisions. Yeah. I said, oh, whoa.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: And it's the thing then I started to see myself.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: what about doing it? What about, right, just see what
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: this entails. And I started to gather some information. And
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: as I was gathering it, I said to myself, right,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: it in the best way possible. And I'm going to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: be the best version of myself that I can possibly be.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: That went into my head, do your best. Yeah. Like
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: my grandkids are into sport and I always say to
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: them when they're playing sport, Do your best and enjoy it.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: They're the two things I would suggest to you.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%. And so you went back to school and
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: became a therapist. And what age were you?
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I did that when I turned 40, I started. And
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: even then, so I went and I studied and I
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: got my diploma. Yeah. And then I went into work.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: And people said to me, oh, you know, you've got
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: a flair for this. You can do this.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: But if you want to get on, you're going to
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: need a master's. You're going to need to study to that.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: And I had one piece of luck going for myself
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: that I never asked what a master's was or what
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: it entailed. Because if I had, I would not have
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: done it. I wouldn't have done it. So that was
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: the look I had, because I remember sitting there the
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: first day thinking, uh-oh. And the very first assignment we
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: got in year one, three times assignment, and I finished
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: work on the Friday evening, and I said, right, I'm
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: going to do my essay. Started at six o'clock on Friday,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Friday night, all day Saturday till about 10 o'clock, all
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: day Sunday till just after six until I was just
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: going to go to my Sunday night AA meeting. And
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I had written 426 words. That's how much of a
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: strain it was for me. From the 16-year-old that left school,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I'd entered the world of academia. And it's just, and
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: the look I had, and I knew somebody that was
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: in AA that had helped me, and he was really
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: an academic, and he had done three different masters. I
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: went to see him, and he said to me, write.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: And he gave me simple ways, like storytelling ways. You
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: know the story. Read books. This is how you do it,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: and this is how you present it. And he laughed
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: when I came to my dissertation, because the dissertation was 15,000 words,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: and I had to cut words, of course, because there
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: was too much on it. And I learned so much
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: from that. And I often say to people in recovery,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: they're asking a lot of questions. You don't need to
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: ask so many questions. just do it. Yeah. That's where
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Nike got it from. Just do it.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Just do it. So how did you know you wanted
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: to work in recovery?
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Because I, you know, I'd experienced what I'd done in
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: my own life or in my life around and I
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: could see it. It's just like, you'd see people changing.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: You'd see people coming to a meeting and then you'd
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: see sometimes as well, people, lots of the people coming
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: to meetings that didn't make it. Yeah. So yeah, like
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: I was starting to think, well, there's a lot of
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: people that come here and, They see what's there and
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: they don't quite make it. So that's what it was
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: as well as I was thinking, hmm, I wonder what
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: could be done or I wonder how we can help
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: or wonder what you could do different.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: That's incredible. And so now your path has taken you
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: to a recovery. The center is just, it's real. I
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: can't wait to talk about it. It's called Rose Glass.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: And first of all, I love can you just share
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: why it's called rose glass? I was looking that up
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: the other day and it's really quite beautiful.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Rose glass is Gaelic and it's Gaelic for the
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: green rose. And the green rose is like a rejuvenate
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: of spirit. It's like to be in again, to be reborn.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And that's why we chose it. We chose the rose
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: glass and the recovery onto them. We are like, this
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: is what we are. We're a recovery center.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Recovery center. And you're in Ireland.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Ireland. Like, um, And again, it was like, for me,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the journey I went on to come back here. Come
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: here and set up here. And, you know, that's, yeah,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: like my own journey along from the UK to coming
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: back here for a while, to going to Zurich, to
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: coming here. And it's all part of my journey. That's,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: you know, it just unfolded. It's like the thing with recovery,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: like it's just going. There's a path, there's something else there.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: It's special. And for you to be able to do
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: the work that you're doing now and truly relate to
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: the person. And we're going to talk more about Rose
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Glass because it's an unusual model, but it's an incredible
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: one that you're private. It's individualized. It's one-on-one treatment. No
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: two treatments are the same. So take me into that
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: rose glass experience.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Okay so like when we look and when I put
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: this together I had worked for a while in Switzerland
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: where I met the model first the Canadian chap by
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the name of Lord Monkhouse it was his idea and
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I developed it with Lord we worked together to develop
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: the idea and I was looking at like the one
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: to one therapy and what you need to do I
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: was very much thinking yeah we need to do it
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: in a way There's something different that we can do
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: here with it. So it is, it's one-to-one therapy where
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: we put together a team of 15 or 20 people
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: that would walk with one person and we lead them
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: through whether they come here. We ask people to come
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: here for five or six weeks. The least we will
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: take anybody is for two weeks. So what we've started
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: to look at, and when, you know, we get the
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: person and you look at Ireland and what the difference
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Ireland has, like Ireland... is, you know, Caid Míle Fáilte.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: What Caid Míle Fáilte means is 100,000 welcomes. So it's
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: the place of welcoming. So the first thing is we,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: most of the people who come to us come from
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: outside Ireland, so we welcome them here. So we welcome,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: and we've created a home away from home for them.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: We kind of, so that's the way we kind of
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: looked at it, is like, rather than this is our residence,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: which we can sometimes say, but really what it is,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: this is the place where we make a home away
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: from home. settle somebody down to do the work that
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: we need to do.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that it's home away from home, but
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: let's talk about like, what does that treatment feel like
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: day to day?
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: So if some, if somebody would come to us first,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: would I talk about what happens like usually the pathway in, in,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: or just, or do you want to know just about
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the treatment while they're in?
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Well, we'll get into a lot of the things, but
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: right now I'd say, what is the day-to-day? What's the experience?
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: You're there five weeks, let's say.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: How really are you helping?
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: You have the team. Who's on the team? And how
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: are they helping you day-to-day?
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Okay. So what you would have with the team, there's
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: like a core team that will be there all the time.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: And the core team will be Dr. Pradeep Chaddha, he's
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: a psychiatrist and Pradeep and a therapist as well. Like
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: when I met Pradeep, the reason I went and I
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: sought him out was Pradeep describes himself as a drug-less psychiatrist.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: So he's into therapy in a national means. Then there's
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Anita Walsh. Anita does all the biochemistry side of it.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: She oversees that. So that's her role. She's a nutritionist
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: and a mental health nurse. That's her background. And then
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I have Alistair Richardson. Alistair is kind of, you describe
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: him as my right-hand man. I had Alistair in Switzerland
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: with me, you know, and he came. And, you know, so,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: and then we had to decide about that as well.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: We had Professor Rizwan, who's, he's a consultant in a
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: private hospital in Dublin. So, like, they would, that would
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: be the core of us.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Then it's like when we're working with somebody, we try
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: to describe, we'll bring in another psychologist or two if
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: we need them. And I can come to that in
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: a while while we do it. So that would be,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: we'd say, the core therapy team. And then we would
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: have yoga people, acupuncture people, personal trainers, masseuses, reflexologists.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: You heal the whole person.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: The whole person.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: That's what it's designed to do. And it's, you know,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: so that's what we're out to do. It's like something,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: and you said it in your book as well, it's
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: about healing. a whole lot of small things. Is it this,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: is it that? If you're doing enough of the things,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: different things, right, not right, just doing it to the
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: best of your ability and you buy into them, you
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: have a great chance. And when I saw this model
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: at Play First, and I spoke to Lowell about it,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: and Lowell was saying to me, he said, right, he said,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: you've worked in treatment centres, you've been in the prior,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: you've been back in Ireland, we see the people, he said,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: they're just out and they're back and they're out and
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: they're back. He said, they don't stand a chance. And
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: he said to me, power to the chance, and he
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: said to me, if somebody is traumatized, they're going to
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: be anxious. If they're anxious, they're going to crave. If
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: they're in early recovery from addiction, there's nothing else they're
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: going to use. There's no visible. And I thought, all right.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: So then it would be about how this model lent
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: itself completely that you could do the work. Because when
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I thought about what he said to me, and it
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: was like the way I framed it then, it's like
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: if you look at like we just call it like
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: a stress glass or a fear glass or an anger glass,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: and if that's 90% or 95% full all the time,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: and then you're using, then you come to treatment, and
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: then you go to treatment, and that's at the same level,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: it's going to tip over. It's going to tip over.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: So if you do some work in treatment to start
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: to release it, and you get that down to 50%,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: now you're in the game and you have a chance. Yeah.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: No, go on.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Sorry. No, I was just saying, so you are... addressing
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: the addiction and then the underlying psychological, emotional, and the
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: biochemical factors.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: And because I don't know that people understand necessarily. They
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: just think I'm broken. Something's wrong with me, right? Innately
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: wrong with me. I keep doing this behavior and I
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: know it's harming me and I don't want to do it.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: And they don't necessarily understand that they're that there is
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: something else happening. Like you brought up the trauma, right?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: But there's also potentially there's another diagnosis. There's something else
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: going on. So being able to address the two and
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: with this evidence-based approach, which is another thing, but being
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: able to heal the person as a whole. instead of
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: one particular thing. Like if you go to AA, yes,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: you work the steps and there's a lot of healing involved,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: but you need more than just AA.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing. And that's what like along my
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: journey took me in when I did go work and
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: as a therapist, I had years of therapy. I had
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: years and years of therapy. And it's just like, and
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I started to see, as I got into some of
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: this stuff, yeah, there's another journey to go on, you know,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: to be healed and become more available. And then when
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I looked at, you know, it's like, look at this,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: that we could do the work so early, if you like.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: And I knew that you could do the work, and
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I saw that work. And in the way we say
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: no to are the same, And the example I often
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: give around that, it's like we'd say, if you and
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: me are going to somewhere for treatment, and they can see,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: and they see that you can, there's your emotion, the
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: emotion is there, you're feeling it. So like there, the
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: emotion is coming out. So then if you'd like to consult,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: make sure you can regulate it to feel it, that
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: it doesn't overwhelm you. Or if I'm over here and
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I'm shut down, And my trauma has shocked me. Like,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: they're two different things. Yeah. So how you treat them
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: and how you go about treating the two of them,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: it's two completely different ways. So when you see people,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: that's why at the beginning, like when we get somebody
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: at the beginning, we do an intensive assessment of them. And,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: of course, as long as with the assessment going, we're
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: looking as well because we're around them all the time.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: So who all are you helping? Is it just alcohol addiction?
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: It's... Addiction mainly, but we're talking, like we would say,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: trauma-related conditions, like you said there, depression and anxiety, people that, again,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: that are suffering from something like that. They're the symptoms. And,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: you know, we can see people, of course, with relationship issues.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: And it's like, so when you're looking at that, we're
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: looking at to help people that want to get well,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: you know, to want to do, you know, we say
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: to people before they come, The minimum we will accept
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: is participation in the book. You've got to participate. If
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: you're going to come here and think, oh, no, I
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: don't want to do this or I don't want to
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: do that, this is not the place for you. It's not.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: The way we look at it, we want to be
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: trying to help somebody, trying to help somebody recover. And
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: if somebody doesn't want to recover, then they don't want
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: to recover. And that's grand, too. But no pretenses. Right.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: So you're not just taking anyone because they can pay
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: the bills.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: No, no, definitely not. As I say to everybody, Marcy,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: my desire to treat you will supersede my desire to
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: please you. So I'm going to be on the side
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: of your recovery all the time. And that's the way
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: when I say, you know, we don't police somebody, but
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: we say to people, look, you're here for treatment. Yeah.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: This is what we're doing. We do everything we can
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: from our side, but you need to participate. You need
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: to go with it. And we realize sometimes, sometimes people
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: are scared, and we get that, and we will work
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: with that, and we will see for ways in. But
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: for the most part, it's just like we get people
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: that want to change. You know, that's what we're looking for,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: is to help somebody to change. And from our side,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: then we will do everything we can to support the
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: change process. I.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Well, from my experience, and... you're the professional I have
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: the lived experience but what I know from my life
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: and what I've seen with others you do need to
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: want it because you need to take the action daily
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: and immerse yourself right.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing and it's like even like that
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: it's like wanting and you again mention it in the
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: book that people would say, I'm struggling. And you say, great,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: that means you're getting well. If you weren't struggling, this
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: ain't working. You think you're going to sit here and
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: you're not going to struggle. You're in co-cooking then. So struggle,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: rather than anything negative, it's really, really good. But you know,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: even what just ran into my head there, when I
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: was doing the master's and the guy that was supervising
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: my dissertation, I said, Noel, I said, what's your position?
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: What do you do? He said, Anthony, I'm going to
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: help you struggle. because he said, if you don't struggle,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: that's what he said to me. He said, if you
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: don't struggle. So he said, I'll help you struggle. Yeah.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: That's my role. He said, I love that.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going to help you struggle.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: He said to me, and I was doing a master.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: So that's what it is. It's like, it's the same thing.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Like when, when I saw it in your book, that's
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the thing. Hey, the good news is you're getting better. Yeah.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: You're healing because you're struggling. And it is where it begins.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: You're confronting. You got to learn to confront and feel.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: And I want to say thank you, Anthony, for bringing
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: up my book, Wake Up, You're Not Broken. And we're
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: just going to take a quick break and I'm going
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: to share more on the book. Are you in the
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: first 30 days of sobriety or wondering if now is
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: your time to start? Hi, I'm Marci Hopkins and I
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: wrote Wake Up, You're Not Broken just for you. It's
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: a real raw guide to those first 30 days. What
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: no one tells you, what you will feel and how
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: to keep going. This isn't about perfection. It's about progress.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Order your copy now on Amazon. Remember, you're not alone.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: You're not broken. You're waking up. Welcome back to Wake
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Up With Marci. I'm speaking with Anthony O'Brien. He's the
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Director of Therapy Services at Rose Glass in Ireland. And
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: we were talking, Anthony, about the power of individualized treatment
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: and But I want to talk about something that I
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: believe in, and that's the long term, right? What happens
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: in the long term when you leave? And then also
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: connection and community, how important that is. So how do
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: you address community within your program?
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Okay. So, you know, and I think like connection and
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: purpose are two of the most important things. So what
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: we advocate is 12-step recovery. But we have had some
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: of our clients that don't want to look at that
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: route and we will take them another route and we
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: will do work with them and we will do that. Now,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: when we talk about recovery community and what we do,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I mentioned the person, the so-called right-hand man, Alistair. Now,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Alistair is in long-term recovery as well, like myself. And
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: we're very open with that with all our clients. And
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: we say that.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I think that's great.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We encourage them to come to meetings. And if
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: we go to meetings, we'll just sit there as we
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: normally would at any meeting. We don't try to be
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: anywhere different. And if we have somebody with us, we
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: encourage them to mix. We encourage them to experience that.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: A lot of times, it's like people, when they have come,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: they say, I don't want this. And of course, I
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: would say, how do you know? But I don't like this. Well,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: how do you know? Yeah. So- And that's the thing,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: is to say, well, just go. Just go. And I
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: had that with a couple of people, where they've gone,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: and they said, okay, it's not what I taught. Yeah,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: but then you've got to have the evidence. So we
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: always encourage that, to see it's not something they see
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: in a movie, or something is A like this, or
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: is it like that, or is NA like this, it's
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: coded like this. We encourage them to do it. And
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: part of the thing when we're looking at the connection,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: and You know, this model, where it's practiced in other places,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: but it's similar to us, what they have is they
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: have a living therapist and a client living in a
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: residence and people coming in and out. In our residence,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: we have, of course, the client. We have the living therapist.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I live there five days a week as the case manager.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: There's a house manager, there's a private chef, and there's
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: a groundsman out in the gardens. So there are people around,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: and we encourage them And we encourage, and even like
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: the meals we will have, there'll be different sets of
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: people that we will put in so that we change
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: it up. And we try to give somebody a sense
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: of that they're not on their own. And of course,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: they're around us and we all support the recovery process.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: And all the complementary therapists that I talk about, the
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: yoga people, the personal trainers, they all support. They all
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: support and they all, and they walk. So there's a
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: community around them just for general support. But of course,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: we do encourage them to go And if they're open
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: to it, like what, you know, we're glad and we're
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: looking to continue with post-treatment. You know, in your own case,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: like you talked about somebody that you knew from a
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: year before you went back into it. If there's someone
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: like that in the picture, we will encourage them, which
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: sometimes there is, give them a call. Yeah.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: You know, like, so doing that. And then the other
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: thing as well is if, If they're agreeable to it,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: we will do an aftercare for them where we can
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: send somebody home with them. Oh, wow. Can model the recovery.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: And so if we're doing that, if we're going into
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: where somebody needs, we will go in and kind of
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: break down the barriers a little bit. Just say, look,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: this is a newcomer. This is persons looking for help.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: They spend part of the year here. They spend all
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the year here, whatever that they do. So to integrate
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: people in, into the recovery program that way.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I think, I think leaving a recovery center and then
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: going back into life, right? Life is going to happen
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: and life is where we were active and, it's hard
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: to adjust in a new way, especially if the family
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: dynamic is still the same and the triggers are there
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: and which lead to the cravings and our muscle memory
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: is attached to the behaviors that we were doing in
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: that situation. So what happens in that scenario?
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: And again, it's very important to see what level of
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: tolerance that they will have for whatever is going on
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: around them. And also have a detailed picture of what
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: they're facing into. Like you're looking, of course, have they
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: got a social support network that will help them with recovery?
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Have they got something that's going to be detrimental to it?
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Where did they come from? You've got to say, right now,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I can't do this. Right now, I'm going to go
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: back to where I was going every Friday. Or like you,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: you're five o'clock. Like, I'm not, this is not for me. Right. Like,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: this is, and we try to listen to, to try
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: to picture this in our head. And then, of course,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: if we're there and we can go and we can
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: look and we can say, right. Yeah. You need to be,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: your recovery. And it's like, again, it's like to say
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: to people, you know, you can fit your lifestyle in,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, you're trying to fit it into
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: your recovery. You can fit your recovery into your lifestyle.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, you can. 100%. And it's a beautiful thing. That's it.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: So what you need to do is you need to
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: say to yourself, right, this is my recovery and my
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: lifestyle is going to fit into this. If you try
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: to do it the other way around, you won't do it.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: You won't do it. And so talking about that, right?
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, family disease. I mean, how are you working
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: with families during the treatment?
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Okay. And a lot of the time, I'd say probably
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: even probably most, the families are the first to make contact.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: In a way, it's contact with contact will be with me.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: That's where the journey will start out. So we will
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: be aware of the family and we'll be aware of
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the importance in the family, in the person to recover
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: and for the family themselves. So what we do and
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: what we usually do, either at the end of the
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: second last week or the beginning of the last week,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: we will have a program for the family. What we
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: do is day one, that will be all about the family. And,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: you know, so we'll have somebody working with the family
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: and look to see what the family need and to
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: look after their needs. And then the second day, we
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: will put them together if it's appropriate to put them together.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: At what level that can happen, sometimes we have to
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: be hard and fast with it. And, you know, to say,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: all right, this is as much as this person can take.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: This is in this person's interest. yeah, there's more to
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: be done here, but they both need to do individual
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: work before we can get to that. So again, it
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: can be very different in different cases. And then, of course,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: it's like often we would need the family to bring
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: us up to speed in the picture of what's really
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: going on. The family might have said to me, this
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: is what it's like, and then you have somebody in treatment,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: and this isn't what it's like. And then we might
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: say to the family member, you know something, could you
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: do us a favour, please? Could you say what you said?
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Do you want to say their letter? We'll read it
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: to them. Do you want to talk to them directly
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: with us there? And it's really, really important. I remember
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: one time we had somebody. He had come here. He
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: was a young guy. He was 24 years old. And
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: he really was a bit iffy about coming here. And
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: his dad had come here first to meet me. And
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: then we had a discussion. The dad went off and
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: then they came back. And then two days in and
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: this guy was screaming blue murder. The only reason I'm
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: here is because you and my dad and you and
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: my dad, blah, blah, blah. And I rang the dad,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: and I said to him, we need your help. He said,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: what do you want me to do? I said, fly here.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: They were living in continental Europe. I said, just fly here.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: And he did. He came down that night. I had
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: dinner with him. And the next morning, we got them together,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: and the father said to him, listen, if you don't
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: want to be here, then you can leave. If you leave,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: I will continue to pay your rent, and I'll give
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: you your monthly allowance. If you spend any of that
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: monthly allowance on drink or drugs, I'm stopping it to
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: zero right away that's what you know you make up
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: your mind what you want to do yeah and then
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: that was it that was the turn on time then
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: he wanted a little bit to just think about it
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: didn't think too long right i'm here and that was
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: it so that is so important without that intervention we
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: could not have had that guy.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Do you you don't do interventions though no right no
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: no no the person has to be willing like the to.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Be there yeah Like, this is somebody we already had in...
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: It's one thing I always, like, thought of. It's like
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: that was really it in motion, live, what we could do.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: And somebody being able to come and do that, like,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: with us. And it was just, like, it's all the
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: way through that. It's like that young man, I mean,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: he was not my biggest fan, you know, at all. Yeah.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: But we're still friends. I was in touch with him
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: last week. Oh, wow. I'm describing something that I'm describing
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: to happen 10 years ago. Yeah. He knew, he said
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: to me before he went, he said, I know you're
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: trying to. So, you know, so like, so it is
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: that thing is like that, that is the relationship that
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: we build with them.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: It's incredible. I mean, yeah. Cause you're really, it's about
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: breaking down those walls, right? I mean, we're, we're in
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: fear and we're, we're put up all these walls and,
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: We think we're protecting ourselves and being strong, but it's
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: really that strength when we start to allow people in
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: and break those down and get vulnerable, get really vulnerable.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: And I'd love for you, Anthony, to address the person
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: out there right now that, I mean, every morning, right?
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: They're promising something will be different. Tonight will be different.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: And every night they get to the same place. and
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: they're in shame and they're scared, how can they know
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: that the change is possible and what could be waiting
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: for them if they were willing to ask for the help?
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Like the first thing is that there is light at
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: the end of the tunnel. When you start the journey
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: and it's just to start it, you know, it's like
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: you're saying there, well, they say, I want tonight to
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: be different. So, of course, the question I would ask them,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: what are you going to do differently? Going to be different.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: What are you going to do to make this different?
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: And if it's like it's the thing of picking up
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: the phone, you know, picking up this phone to somebody
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: to do that bit differently, just pick up the phone
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: and I will give somebody the opportunity to help me.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: That's just what I will do. And just start from there.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: You know, usually there are two reasons I believe that
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: people don't, you know, they're not motivated to change, people
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: will say. But that's usually because of, number one, they
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: don't think it's important enough, or this is the biggie,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: I think. Number two, they don't think they can do it.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: That's it. They don't think it's possible, right?
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. And just getting that across or getting that,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: it's like even, like from us, like when we get
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: somebody at the start, we get them at the start,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: we settle them down. Like on day one, we're settling down,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: we're just doing... complementary therapies to settle them in. Day two,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: they're having a medical with Professor Rizwan. They're meeting Dr.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Pradeep in the afternoon. And then in the evening again,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: we help them to rest. Then they're meeting Anita. Then
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: they're getting their bloods taken for their biochemistry. It's all
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: these people are just around. They're trying to help and
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: trying to get the little bit that'll make the difference,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: that'll just get it, you know, just tip the balance
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: and decide a recovery. So all this team, the reason
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I talk about they're the team that is waiting. If
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: it's not here, it's somewhere. That somewhere there's a team
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: that you know what we do and I describe, I
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: need to just know what we do here. Just take,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: just take that first step. Yeah. Like, like, like just
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: do it. Just do some, if you want it to
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: be different, do something that's different. No one's going to
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: knock at the door and say, I'm from recovery. Do
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: you want to?
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Do something different. So before we close, I really want
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: people to understand how they can learn more. If you're
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: watching the United States, Europe, or anywhere in the world,
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: Who feels that this is, you know, a highly individualized
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: approach may be right for them or for someone they love?
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Who is Rose Glass best suited for? And how could
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: someone contact your team?
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Okay. Like what we're suited for is somebody that, like
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: you just said there, that wants individual approach. So they
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: don't want, you know, they want the privacy of it usually.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: And we can provide that. We can provide. A really,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: really safe space for him. It's very tranquil where we are.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: It's set in six acres. There isn't a house within
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: a couple of kilometers of it. So it's really, really
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: quiet and private. That's one thing. We have a team
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: that we will do everything in our power to try
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: to help them. Obviously, working the way we were doing,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: there are there are substantial costs attached to it so
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: you know so it's somebody that can afford to pay
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: for a treatment like ours and like that's important like
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: sometimes people say well what's the demographic like like a
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: lot of times it can be very successful business men
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: and women and And if it is, again, they're coming
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: to 60 of age, whatever, they have all the trappings
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: of life. But in one way, like they're running away
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: from the 15 or 16 year old that led them
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: to the success. A lot of the times it can
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: be earlier sometimes for their partners, like wives or husbands
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: of successful people. So they're there in their 40s and
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: they're not fulfilled, but they have all the trappings. There's
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: the people we see. And sometimes then it's the younger people.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: like the people in their early 20s that come from
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: very wealthy backgrounds, that they know they can't compete with
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: the person that created all this wealth, and then they're stuck,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: and they have no purpose, anything, no values. So they're
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: the people that we tend to see. But basically, if
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: there's somebody that wants help, if you want help, then
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: just call. The person that you get when you call,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: it will be me.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Anthony, right here, it's going to be you picking up
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: that phone and having that first confidential conversation, right? And
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: making someone feel comfortable. I was just curious, does insurance
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: cover any part of it?
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: No, all our clients self-pay, you know, that's what it does.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: And it's like, even there, I was like thinking as
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: you were talking, like what would happen if somebody was
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: to call me this is what I do. The next
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: thing I do is I speak to Pradeep, then I
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: speak to Alistair, then I speak to Anita, and I
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: speak to Professor Rizwan. And like that, so that's the
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: energy that you're putting into, we hear what the person
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: has to say, and, you know, and try to help
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: in any way we can. You know, I was talking
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: with somebody this morning, they're really, really worried about a
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: family member, and they've lost family members through addiction, and
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: they're scared and frightened. And it's just like, like again,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: it's just like, to tell them, you know, they're not
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: going crazy, they're, This is really, really sad. This is really,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: it's important for them that they want to do something.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: But of course, it's like with the family stuff, all
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: we always say, it's like if we're on an airplane
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: and the masks drop down, they say, put on your
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: own mask first and then you can help somebody.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: I always say that, Anthony. It's 100%. So I just
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: want to thank you so much for coming on Wake
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: Up with Marcy and just for the incredible work that
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: you and your team are doing. And thank I just
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: think that Rose Glass is an extremely special place and
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: it's just incredible that the help that you are providing
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: for others. So thank you for that work.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Lovely. Thanks very much, Marcy. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Anthony.