Latest / Todd's World / The Promise Arrives… With a Cost | Genesis 21 Isaac, Hagar & Ishmael
Transcript
- Todd: The fruition of everything God has promised him is coming true. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: everything for 25 years God's been saying, I'm gonna do through you. this should be the peak. This is the pinnacle for Abraham. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: And this this intense sorrow is waiting for him in it. And he's gotta think, God, I did not think at the pinnacle, at the peak of what you promised me, that I was still gonna have this suffering. I'm still having this loss. Welcome everyone to Beers with Jesus, Todd's World. Every week we come at you and we're just walking through the stories of the Bible. Carries with me, I'm Todd. Thank you for joining us today. We appreciate everybody. Hope Yo, it's Carrie: Good to see ya. Todd: subscribe. Once you've Yo, it's Carrie: Yes, please. Todd: listened to us for, I don't know, five or ten minutes and you realize that we're probably the best thing that you've ever heard since like Rush Limbaugh passed. So Or whatever, I don't know who the Christian guy. C.S. Lewis. Billy Graham. Where am I? Yo, it's Carrie: I don't know. Wow. That is that's some really lofty those are lofty examples. All right. Well we do our best. Mm-hmm. Todd: Look at us go. I decided this week would that I need to be better at selling beers with Jesus. I'm and I'm gonna be. Like I don't sell it good enough to people, meaning it's different enough that I can't just like for me to sell myself as a builder to people, that's easy. People know what you're doing, whatever. But what we do is just unique enough that if somebody were just to hear it, they might think of like a preacher preaching, and it's definitely not that. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, we're definitely not preachers. Todd: but it's also not your typical kind of Bible podcast where they just kinda wander around like bros stupidly. Yo, it's Carrie: Well, I think they all serve different purposes purposes, but no, like you said, we were talking Todd: Ha ha ha. Yo, it's Carrie: about this and you said we we try to make the Bible approachable. We Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: walk through the stories and we make it approachable for everyone. People who either don't have a lot of experience reading the Bible or those who maybe have experience but don't have good memories of it or you know. Todd: I like to think we look we we find w because we focus on the stories and Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: the characters that we end up approaching things a little different than maybe a lot of preachers. and that could just be the form, you know what I mean, and in the live Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: audience and the preacher thing. It's just it's a it's a little different form. So you could almost say that what we're doing we're like Elon Musk, we're creating new forms. Yo, it's Carrie: We're creating flying Bibles. Todd: We get up and flip over all these Sunday shows. Carrie, how was Yo, it's Carrie: That's funny. Todd: your Halloween party last night? This is gonna drop Halloween week, right? It's a week before Halloween right now, so how was it? Was it good? Carrie was Yo, it's Carrie: Yes, it is. Mm. Todd: what'd you dress up as? Yo, it's Carrie: I was a conspiracy theorist. Todd: yeah, with your hat, I saw that. Yo, it's Carrie: It it was fun. It was a great time. Lots Todd: Was it? Yo, it's Carrie: of people took the poll. I made a poll. I made a poll and had people fill out on it it no, like whether they agreed or disagreed or were unsure about different topics. So I was just tell yes, I was just tallying next time. Yeah, it'll be fun. It was a it was a good time. Todd: What their favorite conspiracies were or something? Okay, we're gonna hit that in news next week. Or not next week. Two weeks from today. We do we do beers with Jesus every week and we do the wildly opinion in the news hour every other week. It they dropped this week. So if you're checking out beers and you haven't listened to news, which the news has gotten some of our our has gotten a lot of the last one did really well for us. So hopefully it'll only get better from here. We will see. So Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Interesting. I hope so. Are are you wearing your your Bigfoot shirt right now? Todd: I am. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, see that would've that would have fit in well with w that would have fit in well last night. Todd: Is do people believe that Bigfoot is canoeing across the lake in Michigan? Probably. It makes more sense Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. It was that that would have been good. Todd: than anything Dr. Abdul Salheed has said. Go check out news. It was fun. We had a good time Yo, it's Carrie: no. Definitely go check out news. Yesterday if you didn't hear it. Yeah. Todd: yesterday. So elections coming up, but we keep our beers Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: or our not our beers. We keep our religion and our politics kind of separate. So we have tons of fun on Wildly Opinion Day News Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. We try. Todd: Hour. Hope that you listen and join us and check it out. It's it's even that I would say is a little different than a lot of what's out there. we really just kind of go through clips. So we utilize Yo, it's Carrie: Ha ha. Todd: news clips or clips of whatever and and it's a good time. So Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. We enjoy the entertaining aspects of current events. Todd: We do because what you gonna do? It's either laugh or cry. So we we prefer to laugh Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. A hundred percent. Todd: as we pull up and put in our four dollar and seventy cent a gallon gas. So this week we've been going through Genesis lately. We started in Mark. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. I'm okay. I'm okay with our coping mechanisms, honestly. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Todd: We went all the way through Mark. What do you think, Carrie? I think if people spent time with us, I always say this: like if you just Our shows are somewhat some self-contained. You could it just today, if you listen for today, you're gonna have pretty good feel for Genesis twenty one and maybe a little bit of a of an overview on Abraham's story. Just for the story in general. But I think Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: if you were to stick with us through a whole book, like we did Mark and we did Acts and now we're doing Genesis Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I think you really get because we we because we focus on the story so much, you're really getting a feel not only for Abraham and Sarah, you're getting to know the characters in this story, but Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: we got to know Noah. You got to know Adam and Eve and God and how he's working in creation. And so it's just this Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: kind of wider story that I think maybe the way that a lot of people approach their faith and their Christianity. maybe is a little bit more scatter shot than that. you kinda go to Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: church and you're gonna hit the different whatever whatever readings, whatever homily, whatever preaching they have that day, but it's Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: not always tying together. And then in your own personal reading, you know what I mean? Where Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: with us, because we're so focused on the story, you really are we're it's you're you're really kinda in it with us. You know what I mean? So you kinda and we s we scatter shot and hit things. We've got some things today that I think will be really good. So Yo, it's Carrie: I was gonna say sometimes you'll pull in something from the New Testament or you know, since we've been in Genesis, Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: for example, and it's usually is great. I I appreciate that so much. But but yeah, we're not really a Bible study as much of a, hey, let's like read this and talk about it. Yeah. that's cool. I like that. Todd: A Bible story study, I think is how it was It really is. We're looking at 'cause not only that, we're w when we pull in things from the New Testament, we're looking at the wider story that God's trying to tell. And that especially I Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: think is is gonna be hit today with Hagar. So I'm excited. Carrie, you're reading today, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Okay. Todd: And we're in Genesis twenty one. So we read out of the message translation, the Bible in contemporary language because the message is the best. I like it the best. I think it's got Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I like that the narrative form, the just the whole thing. It kind of works especially with what we're doing. you read whatever you want, but when you're listening to us, it's gonna be the message. So enjoy. Maybe it's a little different take than your typical translation that you use. But again, I always say the best translation Yo, it's Carrie: That's right. Sounds good. Enjoy. Yeah, it might sound it might sound a little different. Sorry, I'm kinda propping here. Todd: is whatever translation you'll read, really. Anything, I mean, even the worst one. I reckon the Holy Spirit can probably use it. So just give Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, I think that's true. I think that's really true. Todd: kinda open the door a little bit for God. He'll take care of it. Don't worry. He'll widen the you out. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: All right, Carrie, you're starting in Genesis twenty-one today. Yo, it's Carrie: All right, Genesis twenty one. You ready? Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: God visited Sarah exactly as he said he would. God did to Sarah what he promised. Sarah became pregnant and gave Abraham a son in his old age, and at the very time God had set. Abraham named him Isaac. When his son was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him just as God had commanded. Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born. Sarah said, God has blessed me with laughter. and all who get the news will laugh with me. She also said, Whoever would have suggested to Abraham that Sarah would one day nurse a baby, yet here I am. I've given the old man a son. Todd: Ha ha ha. Yo, it's Carrie: The baby grew and was weaned. Abraham threw a big party on the day Isaac was weaned. One day Sarah saw the son that Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham, poking fun at her son Isaac. She told Abraham, Get rid of this slave woman and her son. No child of this slave is going to share inheritance with my son Isaac. The matter gave great pain to Abraham. After all, Ishmael was his was his son. But God spoke to Abraham. Don't feel badly about the boy and your maid. Do whatever Sarah tells you. Your descendants will come through Isaac. Regarding your maid's son, be assured that I'll also develop a great nation from him. He's your son too. Abraham got up early the next morning, got some food together and a canteen of water for Hagar, put them on her back, and sent her away with the child. She wandered off into the desert of Beersheba. When the water was gone, she left the sh the child under a shrub and went off fifty yards or so. She said, I can't watch my son die. As she sat, she broke into sobs. Meanwhile, God heard the boy crying. The angel of God called from heaven to Hagar, What's wrong, Hagar? Don't be afraid. God has heard the boy and knows the fix he's in. Up now, go get the boy. Hold him tight. I'm going to make of him a great nation. Just then God opened her eyes. She looked. She saw a well of water. She went to it and filled her canteen and gave the boy a long cool drink. God was on the boy's side as he grew up. He lived out in the desert and became a skilled archer. He lived in the Perrin wilderness and his mother got I'm sorry, and his mother got him a wife from Egypt. At about the same time, Abimelech and the captain of his troops, Fico, how do you what is that? okay, Feichal spoke to Okay. Todd: I whatever you wanna call it, doesn't matter. Fichal doesn't matter. Yo, it's Carrie: He's the captain of his troops. Fichal said to Abraham, No matter what you do, God is on your side, so swear to me that you won't do anything underhanded to me or any of my family, for as long as you live here, swear that you'll treat me and my land as well as I've treated you. Abraham said, I swear it. At the same time, Abraham confronted Abimelech over the matter of the well of water that Abimelech's servants had taken. Abimelech said I have no idea who did this. You never told me about it. This is the first I've heard of it. So the two of them made a covenant. Abraham took sheep and cattle and gave them to Abimelech. Abraham set aside seven sheep from his flock. Abimelech said, What does this mean? These seven sheep you've set aside. Abraham said, It means that when you accept these seven sheep, you take it as proof that I dug this well, that it is my well. That's how the place got named Beersheba, the oath well, because the two of them swore a covenant oath there. After they had made the covenant at Beersheba, Abimelech and his commander Fichal left and went back to the Philistine territory. Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba and worshipped God there, praying to the eternal God. Abraham lived in Philistine country for a long time. Todd: Job, Carrie. Even post Yo, it's Carrie: Thanks. Ooh. Todd: party, you did a fabulous job. Yo, it's Carrie: Ooh. Low on sleep and high on other things. So Ooh, Todd: That's funny. Yo, it's Carrie: lots lots happening here. Todd: There is a lot happening here. I think I I like how it I think I th there was a couple things. The reason I wanted to read the whole thing Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Todd: is of course I really like that end paragraph. So we needed Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: we needed that. And I like the beginning. there's so much of this story that that I think is so Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: good. I love that God God visited Sarah exactly as he said he would. God did to Sarah what he had promised. There's just right at the front end is is God doing exactly what he told him. he would do. You know what I mean? I just Yo, it's Carrie: Right. The fulfill the the big fulfillment. Todd: I yeah, I just I love it. He's been promising Abraham this for twenty five years, at least. And Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: finally, like it happens. Like Sarah is, you know, she Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: she has Isaac in in the whole thing. I Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: wanted to read a little where was that? you said I I I'm gonna hit a little bit in the New Testament today, like you talked about. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: but there was one here it is. So in Romans four in in Romans Paul spends a lot of time talking about Abraham, but I just want to start off I'm gonna do we're gonna hit a little bit of this as we go today, but just with the very beginning of Romans four, Paul says if Abraham by what he did for God got God to approve him, he could certainly have taken credit for it. But the story we're given is a God story. Not an Abraham story. I really like that because I think that that just sets the scene for this whole well, for the whole Bible, but I mean it sets the scene for the whole chapter with Abraham. You know what mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Right, no, I I know what you mean. Mm-hmm. Todd: Like this is a God story, and I love that it starts right off with God does what he says, God's faithful, God, and God's direct in everything. You know what I mean? That's what Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yes. Todd: I find so encouraging about this particular passage. Because there's some tough things in this passage. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: For Abraham. We've seen Abraham deal with a fair amount of loss on this journey that God has called him on, this adventure that God has called him on. And and we we we start to see that it continues, you know what I mean? And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and now it's his son, Hagar, or or Ishmael, his son. Yo, it's Carrie: yeah. Todd: You know what I mean? It's just it's these things that are coming up. So everybody's all excited. I mean, the the whole point is the promise, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm, mm. Todd: And God's been promising, He's but He said, Listen, I'm gonna make a great nation out of you. For 13 years, everybody thought it was gonna be Ishmael. Then Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: God shows up and He's like, No, I told you this from the beginning, it's Isaac. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: Because only God could have that Isaac couldn't have come any other way. And and God makes sure that He makes sure that Abraham's old, that that we're told that is he's past the point of having kids. He makes Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: sure that Sarah, in fact. With Sarah, if what we talked about last time is right, which a lot of the Jewish commentary seem to believe that she had something resembling a supernatural glow up along with having Isaac. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: at this point, if you i what we're looking at here is we're looking at a blended family. Just for the record. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, really. A br a blended family in the time of Abraham. Yeah. You're right. Todd: And I think it bears I think there's things we can learn about blended families in from Abraham. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: And a lot of what we learn actually is that there's a lot of the there's there's there's a fair amount of sorrow and loss and pain that can come. When when we when we try things our own way, Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. It's challenging. Mm-hmm. Todd: it doesn't always like that we can bring pain along the way. The other part of it though that I like so much about this is that it shows how God is working in it anyway. You know Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: what I mean? It's not dependent only on us and only on it, only on whatever seeds we plant. I want to think the other thing that's in the New Testament that's in Galatians is where it says, Don't be deceived, God's not mocked. Whatever we sow, whatever man sows, he'll reap. So we reap what we sow. We get what we Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: plant. I think that's a principle that's all through the Bible. That's real encouraging when you're sowing good seeds. And it's not Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: that encouraging when you've sowed a bunch of bad ones. Do you know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Yes, yes. Todd: And and I feel like what's great about the Bible and what's great about these stories is that God doesn't shy away from either side of that. You know what I mean? Like Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: we see Isaac and Sarah and everything that's going on. And and that's the that's those are all these seeds of faith that that Abraham's planted all along the way. But then we also see Isaac, when it says when Isaac was weaned, he's probably three to five years old. They wean kids Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: significantly older in Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. Todd: in that ancient days. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: So Ishmael's probab let's say four years old. That puts Ishmael at about eighteen, I think. He's thirteen he's thirteen when Sarah gets pregnant. I give it give it another Yo, it's Carrie: okay. Right, 'cause he was thirteen. Okay. Todd: year to have Isaac. That's fourteen. Give him four years to get weaned. You got an eighteen year old kid maybe pushing around a four year old kid to give us a little bit of idea what's going on. You know what I mean? This isn't like a bunch of element like a couple elementary schoolers squabbling, is my point. There there's Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Gotcha. Yes, thank you for thank you for reminding us of the age difference. Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: and I also think it's not just this one incident. Like this is this is what's going on. Ishmael He was the chosen. He would the it was through Ishmael that the seed was that he was the apple of his dad's eye for 13 years Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and then feels replaced. Is Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: replaced. Doesn't just feel replaced, right? He's Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: justified in feeling it. And Yo, it's Carrie: Well yeah, the lady of the it's it's they have the same dad, but the lady of the house is the mother of this r Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: you know, who he perceives to be the replacement. So Todd: Right. Yo, it's Carrie: it's different than his mom who is the maid. Mm-hmm. Todd: Right. And so life Ishmael gets to deal with it, but not only Abraham, but Ishmael gets to there's a lot of disappointment here. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: You know what I mean? In Ishmael it's coming out in making fun of or aggression towards Isaac or whatever. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: Because he feels like the rug got pulled out from under him. And why wouldn't he? It did. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: I don't God may be talking to Abraham and Sarah, but I don't know it that so far God isn't talking to Ishmael. You know what I mean? So Yo, it's Carrie: Right, not that we know of. And Hagar, although she had solid communication from an angel of God before, it's been a long time. Todd: Mm-hmm. To come back. Yo, it's Carrie: It's been a long time and that was pre Isaac. Right. So Todd: And she got the rug pulled out from under her too. They all did. Yo, it's Carrie: right. It's she's in a tough spot too. Todd: And so what happens between them, I just Yo, it's Carrie: So Todd: think that's it's just so natural. It's like remember Yo, it's Carrie: You mean relatable? it's a something that could happen today, is what you're saying? The reactions, yeah. Yeah. I so I didn't see it, but yes, you like you've talked about it. I heard it was so good. Todd: It's it just it's natural within relationships. Remember that show Big Love on HBO that was about the Mormon and he had three wives? I I don't know that I didn't watch the whole thing, but I watched enough of it to a couple seasons, whatever. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: And and it did such a good job of of of of Yo, it's Carrie: Ha ha. Todd: painting all these crazy relational dysfunctions that come in as you start Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: to have multiple people. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Same thing with bonded families, you start to have ex wives and wives and stepkids Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and kids and it just becomes it it just becomes a lot to kinda to kinda deal with, you know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. It's a power struggle. It's a a little bit of a power struggle. Ego Todd: a hundred percent it is. Yo, it's Carrie: like ego ego battle for sure. Todd: Yeah. No, I I I think it totally is. And Yo, it's Carrie: So I hadn't thought when I'm I'm I'm jumping slightly, but I hadn't thought when Hagar leaves Ishmael, I hadn't thought that he was that old. I was still picturing him Yeah. And and maybe not a baby but Todd: I know it makes it seem like he's a baby. Cause Abraham Abraham loads Sarah up with the supplies. It doesn't say loaded up 18-year-old Ishmael. Is it possible that Ishmael was was something of a spoiled kind of kid? he had grown up for 13 years. Yeah, it's not unreasonable, maybe. Then Yo, it's Carrie: I don't know. Todd: the rug gets pulled out from Ishmael. He is Abraham's son. And and and in in his in his history. Yo, it's Carrie: Still calls it a child. Hmm. Well Todd: He's Abraham's firstborn. Yo, it's Carrie: Well you know what too? Hold on, hold on. Maybe May maybe the chronology of this isn't ig isn't exactly linear. Todd: What do you mean? Yo, it's Carrie: I'm just trying to maybe Hagar and Ishmael left. I'm looking for something with the relationship to the party. it doesn't really matter, but I'm just thinking he does sound younger in the story. So I'm wondering if we're hearing about Isaac being weaned and then we're hearing about this party, but I wonder if this is a whole separate occasion of Todd: I think that's only because it's always always been in our head that way. And I don't really think there's nothing in it other than it says she laid the boys So meanwhile, okay, Abraham got up early the next morning, got some food together, and sends them off. Right? Well before that Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, I'm saying before that when I I'm just saying that earlier. So we're we learn about Todd: earlier. Earlier he was younger, right? Yo, it's Carrie: right, we're learning about this moment when he was giving little Isaac a hard time. It Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: isn't necessarily after the w the weaning is what I'm saying. So maybe he wasn't quite that old. I'm just saying. Could just be like a kind of a flash a little flashback, right. So just a thought. Todd: I gotcha. Could be something that was developing for a while. You know what I mean? It's it it is hard to say. But we know that that that there was a lot of conflict. That basically Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: that's what it that's what why by by trying to fulfill what they thought was God's plan in Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: a way that I at the time was the only way that made any sense to Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: It seems like most mostly what Abraham and Sarah brought into their life was conflict. Some extra conflict. I'm sure there's extra love too. I mean, it says the matter gave great pain to Abraham because it says one Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: day Sarah saw the son that Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham poking fun at her son Isaac. She Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: told Abraham, Get rid of this slave woman and her son. No child. of this slave is going to share inheritance with my son Isaac. And I can picture that in a mom with a son. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I saw my mom occasionally kind of bow up at other people when they and mind you I was a little bit of a people tended to think that I was cocky and things when I was playing basketball. Yo, it's Carrie: No. Todd: It's weird, I know. And they would send to say things about it and like if my mom was behind them and if she felt particularly offended she might say something to them. And my dad'd be like, whoa whoa Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: whoa Yo, it's Carrie: love it. She came to your defense. Well yeah, that's that's the job of a mom for sure. Of of parents. Todd: So there's Yeah, and I think that's what Sarah's doing here. That's normal, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Totally. Yeah. Todd: Maybe especially moms with sons? Am I right? Even more so than moms with daughters? Is that true? I don't know. Okay. Yo, it's Carrie: no. I don't think so. I just think I just think you're gonna defend. However, at this time, especially the importance of a son, you know, the the birthright Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: and all of that, I'm sure that it it's easy to to add to add that layer to it. Todd: Well, I wonder sometimes i in I and this probably goes the other way too, but if moms with daughters they're concerned about they they they've gone through what the daughters are going through. They've been little girls, they've grown up into teens, they've gone through puberty, they've got they've done all the stuff, and they they're Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: they're they're helping their daughters along toward being women. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: But maybe sometimes with their sons, they can coddle them a little. Like guys, maybe it's the other way around, you know, like Yo, it's Carrie: I think it is. Todd: They know their son, they remember being a yeah, I remember doing that. But Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: with their daughters maybe they can coddle them a little do you know what I mean? And I wonder if there's some of that. Yo, it's Carrie: Yes, that I think that's true. And I think too, and I don't know if this is true now, but I think at this time, it would be it a mom would tend to coddle the son a little bit because her time with him is probably l more limited than a mother's time with a daughter. And she's old as hell. Todd: Well and Sarah's especially. Sarah's eighty I don't know how old she is, eighty-seven years or something? It's Yo, it's Carrie: I don't know, he Abraham's a hundred. Todd: It says how old she was someplace in here when she had Yo, it's Carrie: really? Todd: Yeah, when she had 'cause Sarah's gonna die pretty quick. Or not pretty quick in the next not next chapter, twenty three. But I thought in there somewhere it gives an actual age of what she was when she had Isaac. Either Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: that or it's in the New Testament. But it's like late eighty it's either like eighty five or eighty seven Yo, it's Carrie: But okay. Todd: or something like that. And Abraham's a hundred. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. But as a son grows, at some point he's gonna be working with the dad or, going Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: off and I just think a mother's time with her son during this period of time is probably more limited. So Todd: Well, Sarah and and all of this would be amplified with Sarah. Yo, it's Carrie: Yes. Todd: Because this is a miracle. Sarah's had her own Yo, it's Carrie: Yes. Todd: glow up. Sarah's looking like beautiful like she was when she was thirty. And Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: probably now she's looking better than Hagar and Hagar never saw you know what I mean? All of this is just a little like, wait a minute, I was the younger chick. Yo, it's Carrie: And she and she had a whole adult life wanting children and not being able to have them. And now this miracle Todd: Yeah, it was the this is the longing of her life. Yo, it's Carrie: Yep. So now she's has that, so Todd: And so she's gonna whatever p natural protectiveness a mother has for her son, Yo, it's Carrie: Ye yeah. Todd: you it gotta it's gotta be turned up to eleven with Sarah, right? And and it Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Definitely. Todd: was God. Like this this is this is supernatural. Like Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: she knows what's happened to her body is supernatural. She knows Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: this kid's supernatural and he is different than your kid. Get that slave woman's kid out of here. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: The other thing that can happen, what do you think about this? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: Let me think of the best way to to articulate this. There's times okay, take a person who is like I you you've seen this happen, I'm sure, in other relationships. Say say you have somebody and and then there's an affair going on. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: Well, what can happen is they get so wrapped up in this kind of clandestine thing. But then once things get exposed and there's the real light of day and it's the real world, a lot of times those things those relationships will fade or they'll break up or whatever. But Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: beyond that it can the the intensity of this love that you felt for this person can almost Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: turn on you. And it can become almost this intensity of dislike towards a person. And I have a feeling we're seeing some of that with Sarah and Hagar. I think that that whatever natural affections Sarah had for her at one time, and I think she did, and I got a feeling Sarah's dealt with a lot of jealousy about Ishmael and Abraham's relationship with Ishmael, because Ishmael isn't her son. But he's seen Abraham, and I mean you can see the matter gave great pain to Abraham. After all, Ishmael Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: was his son. and and Sarah's asking him to send away his son. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: and it and and and it's just tough. Just tough. This these are the things I'm talking about. He's already he's left his he's left his home. God's called him to leave his home, to to Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: to leave his city, everybody he knew, and to just become a wanderer for God, to Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: a city he's gonna show him. His father dies along the way, that's not all that shocking. Fathers you expect if you're a son that your father's gonna die sometime, and he lived a ripe old age, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: But then Lot comes along, he's got to split from Lot. Then not only then Lot gets captured by these kings and he's gotta go and rescue Lot and his whole family. And then you got Sodom and Gomorrah that comes down after that. And and so you've had all these kind of loss and now Abraham's facing another one. The the the The fruition of everything God has promised him is coming true. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: everything for 25 years God's been saying, I'm gonna do through you. this should be the peak. This is the pinnacle for Abraham. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: And this this intense sorrow is waiting for him in it. And he's gotta think, God, I did not think at the pinnacle, at the peak of what you promised me, that I was still gonna have this suffering. I'm still having this loss. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Todd: there's there's bridges you cross that you don't realize they're crossed and burned. You know what I mean? And I gotta feel Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: like this is that that that this loss stays with Abraham. Probably for the rest of his life. It's a it's a hurt that stays with him and and it may I'm sure it fades, but it never goes away. You know what I mean? In that sense, maybe Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Abraham walked with a limp the rest of his life. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Mm-hmm. Todd: And what do you think, Carrie? Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, I think I think it's a good observation to to really pause and consider the hurt that Abraham's feeling about the loss of Ishmael. 'Cause I'm really wrapped up as the mom, I'm wrapped up in the joy of the arrival of Isaac and Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: the miracle and all of that. Is that that's so exciting. Right. But that Todd: And I'm sure Abraham and Sarah are too. But you're three or four years in. Yo, it's Carrie: right, but that that pain that you're talking about of losing who is also his son, who they thought was fulfilling the promise and all those things and it's been years with him. So that's yeah, it's not somet Todd: And there's no way this this happened in a day. if it takes four years for Isaac to be weaned, Yo, it's Carrie: Right. And it's w yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: you got four years plus the year that Sarah's having her glow up and pregnant Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and Ishmael and Hagar this entire time, their worlds are getting like rearranged. Like things are not Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: gonna be what everybody, including them, thought it was gonna be. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: And they're disappointed. Yo, it's Carrie: I think one other right. I think what's cool about this though too for us is that Abraham and Sarah thought that God's promise had God's promises had already happened. And then like God was No, just like just wait. there's so much more and so I think that's a cool thing to to take from to Todd: it is. Yo, it's Carrie: take from this that we can we should be grateful. We should be grateful for our our blessings all the time, but we should also have faith that God has much bigger plans and much better things in store for us all the time. Todd: But even within those much better things, there will still probably be suffering. That's the that's the thing. That's a is a it's a Yo, it's Carrie: yeah. That's yeah, that's life. Mm-hmm. Todd: the the coin of life has two sides, right? And and we have to take both. And I think Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Todd: I think this one I think this one really hurt Abraham and then God God speaks to him again. So it's encouraging that God shows up to him. That God Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: cares about E even though even though God's plan is going ahead like it was always gonna be what it is. Abraham, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Sarah, Hagar, none of them could make any decision. Abimelech, nobody could do anything that was gonna mess with God's plan. This is God's story, not Abraham's Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Right. Todd: story. You need to understand that. The whole thing Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: though, I think, is true. It's God's story, not David's story. It's Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: God's story, not Todd's story, right? I mean you it's it's on all of us. It's Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: it's it's God's working through us. But a Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: God says, listen, this it's he doesn't take away the pain, but he promises Abraham, I'm gonna take care of this. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: You know what I mean? It's it it's not gonna look like you thought it was. And there'll be pain involved. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: And but but don't worry, I got this too. You know what I mean? And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I actually think there's some what I actually saw was kind of some hope within within this this story about Hagar towards the end, because Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: It says Abraham gets up early the next morning, gets some food together in a canteen of water for Hagar, puts him on her back, sends him sends her away with a child, and she wanders off into the desert. I just can't imagine that scene for Abraham. Yo, it's Carrie: I know that's awful. Todd: just the the the grief, in that. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: And it says when the water was gone. She left the child under a shrub and went off. That's why I think it sounds like 'cause it's child, we think of Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: a little kid. But he could have just been eighteen years old and about to give Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. So so I think Todd: out. Yo, it's Carrie: I think this happen that yeah, that could be too I'm just not sure that he would be referred to as a child. So it makes me think that this is maybe something that happened happened earlier right. I don't know. Todd: Well, he's still the her child. I think the reason it's referred to as a child is because the reason Ishmael is significant is because of Abraham. Do you know what I mean? And he's Abraham's child. He's Abraham's son. So in the same Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: way that's what I think. She said, I can't watch my son die. As she said, Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Yeah. Todd: she broke she breaks into sobs. She she she goes fifty yards or so off because she can't be with him as he breathes his last. It's just too much. And it's then it's it this is the thing. It's always when it's most hopeless. Like that's the thing. That's when God shows up. He always waits until Yo, it's Carrie: Yes. Todd: it's too late. That's what I want you to know. This is all then this is Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: like almost too late for Ishmael. He she's I mean Hagar's Hagar's given up at this point. She's cashed it in, Ishmael's cashed it in. They're just gonna die, but she doesn't want to watch him die, right? Because apparently Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: it's gonna take her a little longer. And then meanwhile God heard the boy crying. I like that because God's sensitive to what's going on. You know what I mean? Yes. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Can I just say I just did a quick like Google search. I was curious what Google said about Ishmael's age. Sixteen to seventeen is the estimate. Todd: What's it say? Okay, yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: So yeah. So yeah, maybe he was just maybe he was just not doing well. Todd: Expired. Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. And she's like, I can't I can't watch this. Anyway, okay, go ahead. So God hears him crying. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: It's a little odd. Something I can't make out of this story, to be honest with you, and I'm almost tempted to fly over the detail because I don't know what to make out of it is Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: why Abraham doesn't Abraham's plenty wealthy. When he sends when he sends his servants off to find Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Isaac a wife, he sends them with a caravan of twenty camels and everything else. And you think Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: seems like more than a canteen would have been okay for your son. But I I Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. Todd: don't know. I don't know what's going on. That's a that's a strange detail that I have a hard time making. I Yo, it's Carrie: That is Todd: I just don't know what's going on. But anyway. Okay. Yo, it's Carrie: I wonder, I'm gonna speculate. I'm speculating. I wonder if for some reason it wouldn't be appropriate to send a servant with Todd: Yeah. You're probably right. Yo, it's Carrie: With supplies or with with a ride, a wagon of some Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: kind. I don't know. Anyway. Who knows? Okay. Todd: I don't either. But anyway, God God cares enough to respond. He hears the boy crying. The angel of God calls from heaven. What's wrong, Hagar? What's wrong? What? Okay. Don't be afraid. God has heard the boy and knows Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: the fix he's in. That I think is so encouraging. It's encouraging to me that God knows the fix I'm in. You know what I mean? Cause Hagar didn't Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. That Todd: think he that he did. She was not confident that God understood the fix they were in. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah, that's something that that stands out to me in this part of the story is that she is she is she has given up in this moment. Todd: yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: She has totally given up. And I'm surprised she isn't like I'm surprised she isn't praying in this moment, but who knows, maybe like they're just they're delirious in the heat and and they're exhausted, but right. Todd: Well she's sobbing and it's just yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: but anyway, I I find this this is what stands out to me, that she has given up and Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: God still still shows up for them. Todd: And then he says, Up to up now, go get the boy, hold him Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: tight. I'm gonna make of him a great nation. Just then God opened her eyes. She looked, she saw a well of water. She went to it Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and filled her canteen and gave the boy a long, cool drink. God was on the boy's side as he grew up. He lived out in the desert and became a skilled archer. He lived in the peren wilderness, and his mother got him a wife from Egypt. first of all I don't think this was some supernatural well of water. I think the well o water was there the whole time. You know what I mean? She just God Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Sure. Todd: opened her eyes. I think it's a sign of revelation, honestly. I Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: think I think that she's at the end of her rope. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: And God shows up, and not only does she hear God, and she but we've seen this before. She responded to the angel of God before. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: When when Ishmael was young and she took off 'cause she was mad at Sarah and all she y so this conflict's been around. This isn't new. And she thinks that that right. She thinks Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yes. Hagar's had it rough. I'm gonna say this. I think Hagar has had it pretty rough. Todd: but God then God opens her eyes. I think to me, there there's a couple things I I thought of this story is I thought there are hints of God at work in the larger story. Like like obviously Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: God's concerned about the covenant. He's concerned about the remnant of faith that the Messiah is going to come through. He's concerned about what's going to become Israel and spiritual Israel, which is which is through Isaac, and that then comes to us as the church, spiritual Israel. But God's not only concerned about that, he still shows concern for what I might for what we might think of as the lost. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: In other words, God has plans for Isaac. God also, maybe God's gonna do more than we think with the people that don't respond and aren't part of what we are right this second. Do you know what I mean? I think I think Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: maybe there's some hope in this that Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: that God's got more in store for the story than we can see. Because Abraham, I don't think, could see this. When he sended them away. I don't think Hagar could see it. I don't think anybody, you know what I'm saying? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: That God's God's got more in store for Ishmael and for the choices that we made, but not only for the lost. I think that's from from more of a cosmic sense, you know what I mean? That that perhaps Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: perhaps once God enters creation that the ripples and the impacts of that are gonna are gonna reach the entire story, the entire creation. There's not gonna be a part of the land that's untouched by spring, I think we can hope for. But Yo, it's Carrie: When you r when you mention the lost, do you mean the spiritually lost now? Okay. Todd: Yes. Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. I'm just making sure I'm following you. Okay. Todd: Yeah. That that maybe in this life we see for whatever reason they're not part of the remnant right now. You know what I mean? They're they're not part of of the of the remnant by faith. And and Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Paul seems to when he talks about Israel, and he talks about how God's breaking off natural branches, he's and he's grafting in wild apple tree branches. And but he's still all talking about this tree, and he tells the Christians, but don't you get arrogant because God can graft back in those dead trees again. He can bring them back to life. So there's this idea that there's this this bigger we may be on the front end of of and listen, it's all salvation all through Jesus. And we're on the front end of that. We may be the first fruits, but that Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: there's a bigger story. God's working out of that. If we're Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: going to be a nation of priests and kings like we talked about before, theoretically we've got people we're ministering to. Right? So anyway, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: I think that's part of the bigger story. But I think you could take that idea and you could narrow it into our own lives and you could say that even with them even the things that we might look at and think of as mistakes, missteps, whatever that might be, God's got bigger plans for even those than we may think. Do you know what I mean? And that we can trust him with them. Now listen, there's still probably going to be pain involved. There's still going to be grief involved. But God works all things together for good. And some of those things that we just can't see how this could be working out for good. God's got more in store for. Like we're we're the we're not seeing the end. We're not seeing all the angles on these stories. You you you see what I'm saying? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yes. Todd: What do you think, Carrie? Yo, it's Carrie: yeah, I think that's a hundred percent true. I think you can you can take a season of a season of life, you know, like i today and say, like this is this is all bad. This is this is not going in a good direction and it's like it's just just it's a tiny glimpse when you look at the big picture, at God's big picture. We certainly can't see God's big picture, which is I think an important reason to to study this a little bit, to realize that whatever we're going through now, whether it's one day or, you know, Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: half of your life or whatever it is, it's like it's just a small piece of the whole story. Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: So Todd: And and I think we can trust them with that. I also think that if you think of those seeds and you think of Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: We've talked about this before, the the parable of the sower and the seeds. Jesus tells it in the sea some of the seed falls on the stony path and the devil immediately gets it. Some falls in gravelly soil. Springs up but doesn't have any root and it dies quickly. And then some is cast on good soil and springs up and gives like a hundredfold, you know, harvest, whatever. But then there's that seed that falls and takes root, but the thorns, the cares of the world, kind of grow up around it and choke out any fruit that can come Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: of it. Well, I think that can be, I think the whole story, the whole parable of seeds can be inverted. And we Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: could say, what about bad seeds? Well, I think there's times where bad seeds, as we come into to a to a time later in life where we're giving things over to God, we're working with him, we're repenting. I think that over time, as we Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: plant good seeds, sometimes Say within our family or whatever, sometimes those good seeds can can can come up and maybe they can choke out some of the reap so bad fruit of the bad seeds. Do you know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Th wait, the good seeds can sprout and choke out what is it? Todd: Some of the bad fruit from the bad seeds that we've planted in our life. Does that make sense? So as Yo, it's Carrie: gotcha. Mm-hmm. yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Todd: you enter a time where you're where you're back with God and and you're back, Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: doing praying, searching for God, getting to know God, that all of these Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: seeds you're planting along the way every day, that you look Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: back and you think, my God, some of the shit that I did. I don't know how this is gonna work out. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. I wasn't I didn't always my eyes weren't always open. Yeah. Todd: But I think we can hope that God can take even those and kind of turn it for good somehow. You know what I mean? And open our Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. I think so. Mm-hmm. Todd: eyes along the way too, like Hagar. I think I because I think also Abraham's eyes are open through this ordeal. You know what I mean? I mean we can Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: hope that maybe Sarah's were to a degree. I know we just see the fierce mama bear protectiveness. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: But y you know, how do we know what went on from there? You know, there's Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: God did take care of Ishmael just like he promised Abraham. But Abraham did lose Ishmael. Yo, it's Carrie: Right, yeah. Todd: for all practical purposes, Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. There's yeah. Todd: There's both sides. Yo, it's Carrie: They they don't encounter each other again. Todd: I they may at some point the l Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: next time I remember seeing Ishmael, to be honest with you, is when Abraham dies and Isaac and Ishmael are together and bury him. Yo, it's Carrie: okay. Todd: that doesn't mean he never saw Ishmael again. You know what I mean? But this is God's story Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was just curious. Todd: and this Ishmael's part in it is is is I guess done. Is what we what we want to say, you know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Right. This is the the important part is, God said, I have a plan for you and yeah, that's it. Todd: Yeah. And and we're gonna want to keep this in mind when we go to next week, to to chapter twenty-two. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: We want to keep in mind that Abraham's already given up one son. And God's gonna call him to give up another. And it's it's it's it's a heavy chapter that we're gonna come into. And but this one is the one where he's already given up Ishmael, he's already given up. He's giving up, he's sacrificing, he's making sacrifices for God and for God's plan. And some of those sacrifices can even be his own son, I guess. That's a tough one. And I Yo, it's Carrie: it's tough. Mm-hmm. For sure. Todd: feel that some 'cause, I've had divorce and blended families and things, and I still see things today that happen maybe that are a result of that. And I can see my kids maybe I'm gonna say struggling with certain things. It's more like blended family things or whatever. That they aren't big deals, but you see and you think Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: there's always this little kind of like stab that'll accompany it. Like it just twists things a little and you think, ugh, that one's probably my fault. You know what I mean? Like you see your kids and they and some of the things Yo, it's Carrie: I see. I was gonna say yeah. Well yeah Todd: they deal with are choices, you know, that I made. And in in that And some of the some of the pain and the grief of that never goes completely away, even if God is covering it up with faith and good and everything else. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: well Todd, let me yes, and let me reassure you, I can completely understand that. I can imagine that very easily. But let me just say, I so I never went through a divorce in my family. I still will look at things that my kids face or challenges they have or decisions they make and think, that's that's because of me. I mean you still even Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: with a a a marriage and family that stayed together, you can still look back and think, Ooh, I didn't do that perfectly. Ooh, I was still learning there and that maybe wasn't the best approach. Whatever. You you can do that. Todd: Maybe that's okay. Maybe it's okay that life's a mixed bag. Maybe God enters a mixed bag and he doesn't change it from a mixed Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, well I don't think we have a any other choice. Todd: bag. You know what I mean? God just Jesus Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: enters it and says, Listen, just give me your mixed bag, I guess. Right? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Todd: And then we give it to him and sometimes take some of it back and then we have to give it back and then Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. He's like, I thought you let this go. No, I'm still holding on to that. Yeah, that's funny. Mm-hmm. Todd: We have to trust him to deal with some things that we'd we'd really like to have resolved, but we're not gonna Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: see them resolved, at least not from our angle. You know what I mean? Not maybe for a while. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. True. Todd: And so we have to live in this land of kind of unresolved issues. We don't get Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: saved, come to Christ, and he may turn out everything for good in the end, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: but we gotta trust him to believe that because we aren't probably gonna see a lot of it here. Or not all Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: of it. Maybe we'll see more than we expect. That's been my experience. It's been far more joy than Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. Todd: than grief and pain that can come on the other end. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: But the grief and pain never does go away altogether. You know? There's always Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: more lost. There's always more to lay down. There's always well, God will call you to the next thing and you think, well, what's this one gonna cost me? Just as everything that you've got. It's the pearl of great price. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, just everything. I think too there are philosophers who say you can't like we can't feel joy without feeling pain, you know? We wouldn't rec Todd: Yeah, probably true. Yo, it's Carrie: we wouldn't recognize the joy in life if we didn't have loss or difficulty. Mm mm. Todd: I wrote a line the other day, I don't know if I told you this. I told Nikki and my kids this, but I wrote a line the other day that I thought was really good. I may use it actually. We'll see. But it Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Okay. Todd: said the line was Love found its greatest expression hanging on a stake of wood and suffering. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: And I think that's true. I'd been reading about the crucifixion, I think. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: in just in my personal reading. And I and Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and I do think there's part of that. I do like the other thing, just as a quick if people want to want to get into it, is the Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: this reminds me also because she her eyes are open if she sees this well, there's a there's a bit of a parallel with the woman at the well in Jesus, I think. The Samaritan Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: woman at the well in John 4. Which we don't have time to get into that whole story, but but Jesus she her eyes are opened that Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Jesus is she's at this well drawing water in the middle Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: of the day, but why her eyes are open to Jesus? Is the well of living water. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: You know what I mean? And then she goes and tells everybody, tells the whole town. So it John Four, if people Yo, it's Carrie: It's yeah. Todd: haven't Yo, it's Carrie: Well, I was gonna say we did is it not in Mark? we just talk we've just talked about it. Really? Interesting. It's such a big story. Yeah. Todd: It's not. Believe that story's only in John. I think it's in John four, yeah. I did in Todd'sworld.net guys has my books. I wrote one of my memoirs Leaves It Blue Away. In that is a story where I kind of rewrite the story the woman on the well, maybe add some color and some detail. You know what people Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: always ask me when I say that you mean like the chosen? Well I guess like the chosen. I haven't watched the chosen much, but I guess it's kinda like that. Yo, it's Carrie: they they you get to know the woman at the well very well in the chosen. yeah. Todd: Do you? Well, when I tell people that I'm kind of fictionalizing, adding color whatever, to the stories of the Bible, like in Beaten by the Storm or or the serials Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: or whatever, they always ask me about the chosen. So I guess the chosen's probably a good something kind of comparable in what I'm talking Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: about. Where they're adding more detail than what you get in the Bible. You're you're getting a little bit more story. Not that they're messing with it per se. Yo, it's Carrie: They are. I've heard and Right, I was gonna say I've heard that the red I I've heard that the writers did a lot of research and did their best to use factual, you know, bases for Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: all those but yeah, it's really it's cool. Yeah, you gotta check that out. I can't believe you haven't seen it. Todd: I've seen two episodes it's not for it's not for any reason other than I'm just not a T V watcher, so it really takes something Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: to 'cause it's not I don't have a time where I sit down and watch TV all the time. Unless a game's on or something. So it's Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah. Todd: fighting that habit, I guess, probably as much as anything in me, Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. This one is so worth it. So so worth it. But I'm also a T V watcher. Yep. Yeah, are we gonna talk are we gonna t are we gonna talk about this this well wait, are we gonna talk about Abimelech and the well and the Todd: But everybody always says that. And then I at the end, I love it. I just love that last paragraph. Well we could talk about it. I don't know that much is going on other than I to me the two most important things are when when Abimelech says to Abraham, No matter what you do, God is on your side. Like I love that. I found myself when I've buy when I've been studying this week just kinda praying there like God I just let whatever I do be on my side. that'd be cool. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Todd: Let you know, to be known as that, I think is just it's a it's a cool thing. And and then seen Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, that's neat. Todd: by this ruler and he's like, Listen, I I wanna I wanna be I wanna I wanna get in on that to whatever extent I can. Whatever extent Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: they you got a direct line to the divine, I wanna be on good terms with you. I like that. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Todd: They have this thing about the well and they and they they they patch it up. That doesn't seem to be a big deal, but Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: I love when it says Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba and worshipped God there, praying to the eternal God. Abraham lived in Philistine country for a long time. If you know the story, the continuing story of in the in the all of the clashes that end up happening between the wars between the Philistines and Israel, Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: it's it it seems significant to me that that Abraham lived in Philistine country. for a long time that he planted a tamarisk tree. And I I this is one of those things where I go to Grok and I say, is there something what what's a tamarisk tree? What's significant about it, Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, that's actually what I was just looking up. Okay. Todd: And what Grok had come up with was that the Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: the tree functions as a durable living witness to an agreement and to God's provision of water and stability in the land. Unlike a stone pillar, the tree continues to grow and stands as a visible reminder across generations. Abraham was a sojourner. Planting a slow growing long lived tree in the arid negative was an investment in a future he would not fully see. Tamaris thrive in assailing desert soils with deep roots that tap groundwater. They can live for centuries, provide shade, and tolerate extreme conditions where other trees fail. This mirrored Abraham's trust in God's land promise and his decision to remain many days in the region. It was deferred gratification, an act of forward looking faith rather Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: than immediate utility. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, that's Todd: So Yo, it's Carrie: cool. And the the one thing that I see and my quick my quick lookup of it is that it can take four hundred years to reach its full height. Todd: In that while Yo, it's Carrie: That's wild. So Todd: that to me is that's so symbolic of the promise that God's working with. Yo, it's Carrie: That is right. That's really cool. Todd: Because we're four or five hundred years right now from when Abraham plants this tree, we're four or five hundred years from Moses delivering the children Yo, it's Carrie: Wow. Todd: of Israel out of to to to Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: to this little this this great nation Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: actually starting to become now listen, it's a nation of slaves at that point. God's gonna take it and he's gonna turn it into something else. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: But he's gotta they gotta wander around the desert for 40 years because he can't get the slave out of the people, even if he can get the people out of the slavery. He needs a new generation. But Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: that's a that's another story in Exodus. So Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: but the fact of the matter is that Abraham worshiped God there, so he goes to this foreign land, he's among this this these people that don't seem to know God all that well, and he worships God there. And they and they reckon we can worship God wherever He puts Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: us. And it doesn't matter if He leaves us someplace for a long time. In a country that we never thought we'd be at for Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: even a short time. Sometimes God leaves us for a long time, and that's okay because it's God's story, not our story, all the way through. It's not Isaac's story, it's not Jacob's story, it's God's Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: story. What do you think, Carrie? What have I missed? What have we missed? Yo, it's Carrie: I I think no, I don't think you missed anything. I think that Todd: Look at me go. Yo, it's Carrie: I think you got no, look at you go to No, seriously. I think I think it's good. I love the symbolism of the tree. pray yeah, praying to the eternal God. There, it's like mm-hmm. Todd: Worshiping God there. It's like it's like he's he's really starting to see God. God's opening Abraham's eyes too, progressively through this entire story. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: You know what I mean? To the well that is Jesus. Yo, it's Carrie: So the lessons of this revelation, I liked I like your thoughts on the revelation. Hagar being able to see the well suddenly. Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: trust in God's plan in the big picture. And Todd: In the face of grief, probably. Yo, it's Carrie: right. Mm. Todd: Right into the teeth of it, really. Abraham's faith Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: and the pinnacle of his of his receiving the promise that he's been waiting Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: for for twenty five years is combined with just this bitter pill that has to be swallowed. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah, that intense bittersweet is hard to imagine. Todd: But I think we run into it in a lot of areas. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: You know what I mean? I it's life's never Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: we always expect we think, well once we get to here everything will be just like smooth sailing. And I don't that doesn't Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: I don't know that that's what God has promised us in this particular life. Yo, it's Carrie: No, I know. We're we're so funny like that. It's just I think that's just our I mean, maybe it just helps us encourages us to go on. Who wants to say, Yay, I can't wait to suffer? You know, I can't wait for Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: a season of suffering. So it's I think more natural for us to Todd: Where's Romans 4? I want to end on this little Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: thing. I happen to really like this. blah blah blah. When everything was whole okay. Abraham, this is in Romans 4, and it's like verse 17 or 18. Abraham was first named father and then became father because he dared to trust God to do what only God could do: raise the dead to life. That's what's shown in Abraham, his seed being dead. God raising the dead to life, right? What Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: with a word makes something out of nothing. And then I love this. When everything was hopeless, Abraham believed anyway, deciding not to live on the basis of what he saw he couldn't do, but on what God said he would do. So it not living on what Abraham realized I'm never going to be able to do. But saying, God said he did it and I'm gonna trust him anyway, even though it looks like it's impossible. Right? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: And so he was made father of a multitude of peoples. God himself said to him, You're going to have a big family, Abraham. And then this is the part that I just love. Abraham didn't focus on his own impotence and say, It's hopeless. This hundred-year-old body could never father a child, nor did he survey Sarah's decades of infertility and give up. He didn't tiptoe around God's promise asking cautiously skeptical questions. He plunged into the promise and came up strong, ready for God, sure that God would make good on what he had said. I just really love that. That to me, that's like the best summary. What what more could you ask for if you're Abraham, you Yo, it's Carrie: It is. It's a great summary. Todd: know? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. And how many year how many years later? That's cool. Wow. Todd: Two thousand years later. I think. I think it's two thousand years from Abraham to Jesus and another two thousand Jesus to us or something. I could be wrong on that. Maybe it's two thousand from Yo, it's Carrie: Wow, really? Two thousand It's long though. Todd: Abraham to something else and then two thousand from there to maybe it's two thousand from Abraham to David, then David to Jesus is two thousand. Seems Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Wow. Todd: like I would know that, but right now I'm blanking. So And I'm only half a beer in with Jesus, so Yo, it's Carrie: Well when you're talk i it's a significant it's generations. It's the point is it's generations. It's it's a long time. Yeah, that's really Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: cool. It is it's great summary. Todd: I love that. I that was one of my w back when I used to think that there was something to faith declarations, which I don't anymore. But back when I did, that was one of my faith declarations. I really like that verse. Yo, it's Carrie: You don't do that anymore. Todd: No, I don't think that there's anything to magical incantations. Although there might be something to to the things that are treated like liturgies or you know what I mean, whatever. Yeah. But Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. Okay. Cool. Todd: I don't think you're gonna make things manifest. You're not gonna manifest things. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: No, you don't believe in in manifesting? I don't know. I I feel like Todd: I don't think so. I think God makes what he God manifests what he wants. Yo, it's Carrie: right. But I just feel like I feel like if you're you know, we're talk i in this they're talking about being right with God. 'Cause I I'm kind of a Todd: Not asking cautiously skeptical questions. Yo, it's Carrie: But I think just if you if you have aligned yourself, if you're attempting to to live the way God wants you to, and then Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: you pray for things, I feel like that's almost the same thing. I feel like praying for something Todd: Yeah. dear. Maybe. Yo, it's Carrie: and manifesting and that God will bring that to pass if it's you know, obviously if it's his plan, but if you're Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: in alignment with them, I guess. So it's kind of a chicken or the egg sort of Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: situation, but Todd: And it doesn't give much account to when God says no. That's the problem. Sometimes it just Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: doesn't please the king, I think is the answer, and we're left with nothing else. And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: that's part of having a king. So all right, Kerry, I think we did good. Thanks for joining me today. Listen, guys, Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Yep. Well thank you for that. Yeah, good job. It was good to see you. Todd: check out Toddsworld.net. Buy some books if you wanna help support us, that'd be great. Plus I honestly